Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

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apollodorus
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Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by apollodorus »

Good afternoon! I've run into some difficulties with an online purchase simply not being fulfilled, and wonder whether anyone might advise from their own experiences as to whether contacting Capital One (issuer of the card charged) or PayPal (intermediary used to pay vendor) would be the best next step?

Just over a month ago I purchased an item from an out-of-state bricks-and-mortar store with an online presence. Since that time a series of e-mails (unanswered) and now phone calls (answered, but to no avail) have yielded no satisfactory update, explanation or, more to the point now, refund. I have hesitated to take this up with CapOne or PayPal, hoping that the vendor would simply issue the refund, but this seems increasingly unlikely.

If anyone can advise which route - CapOne or PayPal - would be more effective, I'd be very appreciative.

Thank you!
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nisiprius
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by nisiprius »

I have had excellent results disputing credit card bills. I've done it about seven or eight times in thirty years and I always got a refund to my card, sometimes with a caution that the charge might be reinstated depending on the results of their "investigation." It's been a Capital One card for a very long time. Oddly enough, I disputed a bill a few weeks ago and right over the phone the rep said "We will refund the amount to your card, and for your information this resolution is final."

One of the disputes was with an eBay seller. I don't remember if PayPal was involved. My credit card was charged and I disputed the bill with the credit card company.

So my results with credit cards have been excellent, prompt, and easy--I think I might have been asked to send documentation once.

Paypal's online reputation for dispute resolution is bad. But that's third-hand information, I've never had to resolve any issues with PayPal yet.
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Hebell
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by Hebell »

I have used PayPal as both a vendor and as a customer from many many years, filling most of my orders with PayPal since it was so widely accepted by my customers. I have found PayPal to be very easy to deal with, and you always get up-to-date information in their dispute resolution center

In fact if you paid with paypal, you must go through PayPal first. You don't get a choice. At least that's how I recall it
SchruteB&B
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by SchruteB&B »

Capitol One has done an excellent job the few times I have had to dispute a charge and I’ve gotten a full refund every time.
Nyc10036
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by Nyc10036 »

Go through Paypal first.
The charge on your credit card most likely lists PAYPAL xxxxxxxx where XXXXX is the store.

.
rich126
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by rich126 »

I always go with the credit card. For example I had an issue last year with something expensive not getting delivered on time and heard various excuses. As a preventative thing I went online to dispute the transaction with American Express. Of course then the item showed up a couple of days later but it was easy to withdraw the dispute and everything was fine.

I don't recall the time frame but you don't want to wait too long to dispute something.
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galawdawg
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by galawdawg »

I'd start with Paypal. If they do not resolve it in a satisfactory manner, or don't resolve it in a timely fashion, then dispute with Capital One. Just be sure to make note of when you must dispute with Capital One so you don't miss that deadline if it is not resolved by Paypal.
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by mkc »

I had a similar situation and just wanted to offer my experience. I first disputed with PayPal. They sided with the seller since she produced some sort of paperwork that seemed to satisfy their requirement (I'm not sure what - PayPal sent me a screenshot and it was illegible). I then disputed with CapOne, and they said since PayPal was in charge of the transaction and had already decided, my dispute needed to go through PayPal, not them. So if you dispute, I would start with the credit card company, not PayPal.

I will no longer use PayPal for any merchant transactions.
fortunefavored
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by fortunefavored »

People misunderstand these disputes. When you dispute with your credit card, you are disputing Paypal, not the vendor.

You may indeed get your money back, but Paypal may decide to block/cancel your account since you are instigating a charge back against them (not as you would expect, the merchant.)

Since you used Paypal, you are bound by their terms of service and you should go through their dispute process.
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

I had a bizarre event with PayPal that has led me to drop the connection.

I received a notice that my account had been charged $1,800 for a transaction with a jeweler in a town that I had previously lived in for 40 years, but had departed 5 years before the event. Efforts to clear it up with PayPal were fruitless, calling the vendor confirmed that I did not make the purchase, the vendor was mystified as well, he remembered the transaction and it was not to me.

Called the card company and they saw no transaction at all, so there was not exposure but the whole thing soured me on PayPal and I haven't rued the day I cut it off.
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celia
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by celia »

You are supposed to start any dispute with the vendor/provider/store, which you did.

Then look for a refund from paypal, if they were the one who paid the vendor.

If that doesn't work, then go to the credit card company.
Last edited by celia on Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

It is exactly this type of situation that confirms my motto of "never deal through intermediaries." I don't use PayPal, and I don't use online travel agencies.
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celia
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by celia »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:59 am It is exactly this type of situation that confirms my motto of "never deal through intermediaries." I don't use PayPal, and I don't use online travel agencies.
On the other hand, I will not give my credit card number to a small company or one I've never dealt with before. At least the intermediary puts my credit card at an arm's distance from the company I'm buying from.
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by mkc »

celia wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:04 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:59 am It is exactly this type of situation that confirms my motto of "never deal through intermediaries." I don't use PayPal, and I don't use online travel agencies.
On the other hand, I will not give my credit card number to a small company or one I've never dealt with before. At least the intermediary puts my credit card at an arm's distance from the company I'm buying from.
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apollodorus
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by apollodorus »

My warm thanks to each Boglehead who chimed in - on the basis of what I've learned here, I initiated a complaint via PayPal this morning and will hopefully receive the refund without further escalation.

I'll close the thread simply by adding a good word for Capital One, who aren't immediately involved here but who have been - in my experience - very responsive and helpful on the couple of occasions when small vendor security breaches have resulted in fraudulent charges.
margered
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by margered »

In my experience, a purchase via PayPal is charged right away, but a purchase via a credit card is not supposed to be charged until the purchase has shipped.
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OuterBanks
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by OuterBanks »

I also recently had an online item not delivered to me. Purchased through PayPal using a credit card. I tried unsuccessfully to resolve directly with the merchant. I then went through the official PayPal dispute process and PayPal denied me saying “We have reviewed this transaction(s) and are denying your case(s). This decision was made because we never received documentation that proves you are due a credit”. Now I have gone to my credit card company and started a chargeback on the charge so crossing fingers I will win this fight.
davebo
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by davebo »

I'd go through Paypal first and then, if that doesn't work, do it through the credit card. You can always fall back on the credit card. By going through Paypal, they usually will require the merchant to provide either a proof of delivery or they will refund.
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apollodorus
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Re: Filing Dispute for Unfulfilled Order: Capital One or PayPal?

Post by apollodorus »

A concluding update from OP - after considering all of the Boglehead advice above, I went ahead and filed a formal claim against the vendor through PayPal. A week later, after the vendor failed to respond at all, I went ahead and escalated the matter to PayPal, which requested a vendor response within a certain period. When the vendor yet again failed to respond by the set deadline, so far as I can tell PayPal almost immediately - rather than taking the 5 days they had suggested - ruled in my favor and issued a refund. Good luck to anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation.
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