Customer Reviews

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OpenMinded1
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Customer Reviews

Post by OpenMinded1 »

Sorry the following is long winded, but I think it's worth noting if you are considering writing or using online customer reviews, and a certain large, dominant, online retailer.

I've always been skeptical of online customer reviews, and the following experience reenforced that skepticism. I try not to let them influence my purchases to a great degree, but it's difficult not to look at and be biased by them.

I bought a device thru the large, dominant, online retailer that we are all familiar with. An overwhelming majority of the numerous reviews for the product were 4/5 and 5/5 stars.

I was very disappointed with the product. 1) The instructions that came with it weren't very detailed, and they were difficult to understand, 2) The app used with the device isn't at all intuitive, 3) Support from the vendor left a lot to be desired, 4) The device didn't reliably do what it was supposed to do.

I submitted a review to the large online retailer I got it thru detailing the above. I gave it 2/5 stars.

For some reason, I didn't return the device. I guess I didn't want go to the trouble of uninstalling it, and shipping it back. Also kept thinking that with a little bit of tinkering I would get it to do what it's supposed to do.

Anyway, about three months after submitting the negative review, I received an email from a manager fairly high up with the vendor. ( I didn't include my email address with the review, and I didn't think vendors were supposed to have access to it in most cases.) In the email, this gentleman said he had read my review and was sorry I was having problems with the device. He offered to let me have one of the other devices sold by his company, or a refund. I didn't even have to return the device.

After verifying thru the company that the email was legitimate, I responded that I appreciated the gesture and would take him up on his offer for a refund. However, in subsequent emails he, in so many words, said I would have to change my review or have it removed before getting the refund.

The manager was very persistent. He sent me four emails, each one worded more strongly. I didn't respond to any of them.
In one of his final emails he further added that I could post the review again if I didn't get the refund.

I wasn't willing to change or remove my review in exchange for a refund. Thought that to do so would be unethical, and a violation of the policy of the online retailer I bought the device thru.

I subsequently sent an email to several departments within the large, dominate, online retailer mentioned above. I even included copies of all the emails the manager sent me. I commented that the vendor had violated their policy, and asked them how the vendor knew I had written the negative review and got my email address. (I read their policy statement regarding reviews, and some statements about how they were taking steps to make them more credible.)

Of course, I never got a response. And guess what? My review was removed from the site. :oops:
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ResearchMed
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by ResearchMed »

OpenMinded1 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:08 pm In one of his final emails he further added that I could post the review again if I didn't get the refund.
IF this is the "large online site" I'm thinking of, I had read that if you are the one to delete your own review, you can NOT repost it... and thus this is a very nice scam... the vendor doesn't send anything, and you can't respond in any way on the main site.

I have not had the experience myself, but I've read it quite a few times, mostly with respect to this particular, uh, "offer".
(And of course, if I read it on the internet, it must be true, right?! :shock: )

RM
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olyveoil
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by olyveoil »

Paste the email, verbatim as another review.
squirm
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by squirm »

I figure most reviews are fake. I'll read a few to get a feeling of the item, but generally I few most of them as fake which is too bad that's it's come to this.
If you think Amazon is bad, Home Depot is really bad. I use fakespot but it's hard to tell if it really works.
Last edited by squirm on Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by quantAndHold »

The large, dominant online retailer allows its vendors to send you one email. If you don’t reply, they can’t send a second, but if you do reply, then…

The large dominant retailer won’t take action against a vendor for a single customer complaint. Remember, 3rd party vendors are their customers as much as you are. But if there’s a pattern of complaints, they will definitely take action.

As far as your review, it’s hard to say. The large, dominant retailer will remove reviews if they don’t meet their review rules, and some 3rd party vendors will report every bad review as violating the rules and try to get them all removed. You might try writing a new review, making sure it meets the online retailer’s review rules to the letter.

As far as reading reviews, two things. Read the 3 star reviews, they’re usually the most real. And fakespot.com will tell you how real the reviews are generally.
cacophony
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by cacophony »

There is an incredible amount of review manipulation occurring on the site you're referring to, especially with lower cost products. The latest tactic I've run across is sellers building up reviews with a certain product and then altering the page to be an entirely different product. It looks ridiculous if you actually read the reviews because they'll be on the wrong product! But I guess many people purchase based on the overall star rating and don't bother to look into the details.

I used to use sites like reviewmeta and fakespot, but I'm not sure they help much at this point.

A couple ideas:
Use alternative/smaller sites to check reviews
Look for items with a small number of reviews over an extended period of time

Seems less likely there would be review manipulation in those cases
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prudent
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by prudent »

This thread is locked (general rant), not allowed by forum policy. See: Personal Consumer Issues
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prudent
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by prudent »

After further moderator review, the thread is unlocked.
TominToledo
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by TominToledo »

I always read the one star reviews. I find those to be informative. Many of the 5 star reviews are fake in my opinion.
Da5id
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Da5id »

Reviews on Amazon used to be useful guides IMO. Now I assume they are totally gamed, and I only read the 1-2* ones to find info. I also find Amazon less compelling than I used to. Their prices used to be reliably better. I'm also dubious about their corporate ethics and doubt that their market dominance is a good thing so I'm happy to try and keep some of their competitors alive. My Prime is expiring shortly, won't be renewing. They used to be the first place I'll shop, now I consider them a last resort (though I'm tied to them for Kindle).

Wirecutter has useful (and free) reviews. But it doesn't give you many alternatives to consider. Consumer Reports, to which I used to subscribe, has faded in usefulness IMO. It is regrettable that there aren't many sites where I can take the reviews as anything other than paid endorsements.

OP, the companies behavior violates Amazon's rules here: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/hel ... uage=en_US. Though I'm dubious how hard they enforce those rules. They explicitly forbid your case:
A seller asks a reviewer to change or remove their review. They might also offer a refund or other compensation to a reviewer in exchange for doing so.
Last edited by Da5id on Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by RickBoglehead »

I wrote a bad review on Home Depot. Vendor contactedme, sent a better product. Asked me to remove the review. I refused. Done.
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Topic Author
OpenMinded1
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by OpenMinded1 »

cacophony wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:33 pm There is an incredible amount of review manipulation occurring on the site you're referring to, especially with lower cost products. The latest tactic I've run across is sellers building up reviews with a certain product and then altering the page to be an entirely different product. It looks ridiculous if you actually read the reviews because they'll be on the wrong product! But I guess many people purchase based on the overall star rating and don't bother to look into the details.

I used to use sites like reviewmeta and fakespot, but I'm not sure they help much at this point.

A couple ideas:
Use alternative/smaller sites to check reviews
Look for items with a small number of reviews over an extended period of time

Seems less likely there would be review manipulation in those cases
Something else to lookout for. Using my phone, I searched on the large retailer's site for the device I purchased. I found the exact device. There, of course, was a photo and written description of it. I shared it with Fakespot for an analysis. However, I'm not sure Fakespot analyzed the right device. There was a photo of a completely different device included with the analysis. The written description seemed like Fakespot was analyzing the right device, but the photo was obviously of a different device, and not the same as the photo on the large online retailer's site.
Wabbit
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Wabbit »

Thanks, before your post I would discount online reviews but still consider them. I didn't realize the amount of shenanigans going on with them now. Consumer Reports isn't what it used to be, and sure they have biases in what they consider important, but I don't know of a better source for reviews / info.

XKCD has a comic about star ratings/review: https://xkcd.com/937

Image

(I believe that site's creative commons license allows to link the comic image here)
Topic Author
OpenMinded1
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by OpenMinded1 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:30 pm I wrote a bad review on Home Depot. Vendor contactedme, sent a better product. Asked me to remove the review. I refused. Done.
I probably would have added to my review that the vendor had on its own initiative contacted me and offered me a refund if the vendor hadn't made the refund contingent upon my changing or removing my negative review.
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OpenMinded1
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by OpenMinded1 »

I usually consult Consumer Reports (CR) to see if it has rated the type of product I'm looking for. ( In this instance they hadn't.) I like the fact that CR doesn't accept money for posting ads for products they might evaluate. (They won't post ads for those products.) They try to avoid conflicts of interest, and primarily rely on donations.

Seems ironic that CR seems to be struggling a little bit, and that it might be because people seem more likely to use customer reviews on the sites where items are sold. CR's website is kind of clunky by today's standards, and CR seems to be asking for donations more often than in the past.

There are sections where people visiting the site can review the products CR evaluates, but there are very few reviews there.
wilshuer
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by wilshuer »

Similar experience. I usually look at the lower ones to get a better feel on what to expect. I had given a fairly honest review on a product, and noted the packaging was poor causing the item to be cosmetically damaged but functionality was ok. Dropped a star because of that and because I commented on packaging Amazon refused my review, note this was product packaging not Amazon’s shipping packaging.
vested1
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by vested1 »

This same thing happened to me after I left a 1 star review on Amazon. I made the mistake of answering the email sent by the seller, refusing their offer for a free $250 product with no need to return the one I reviewed if I would only change my review. The emails kept coming with claims from the same sender that they were only paid $500 a month and would lose their job if I didn't change my review. In later emails they claimed their invalid mother relied on them for support. All emails were written displaying poor english skills.

I complained to Amazon several times, who said they'd take care of it, but the emails continued. I solved the problem by marking the emails as spam.

Any product that has a vast majority of 5 star ratings and is manufactured in a foreign country should be avoided. If the price seems too good to be true, it isn't.
squirm
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by squirm »

This is why sites like Project Farm have taken off.
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8foot7
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by 8foot7 »

I assume all reviews are fake. Because of that, I have no problem with accepting a refund for a defective product in exchange for removing a negative review. I find it to be another avenue for customer service.

I would not remove negative reviews for discounts or gift certificates but if I've bought, say, a blender that doesn't blend, and especially if I get the runaround trying to return it through normal channels, then if a vendor offers me complete redress through the review, I'll take it.
Shallowpockets
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Shallowpockets »

Several posts here refer to contact by the vendor with offer to replace product free, no need to return. All posts also state they would not change or delete their reviews.
Hmmm.
Aside from validity of vender contacting you, why not see it as a good faith action. Perhaps not change or delete your review, perhaps write another view with the updated information. Someone is trying to rectify a poor customer experience. Is here no chance that you would see it that way?
OP does not state the product he bought, and perhaps the instructions were not as adequate as needed. There are things you can buy in a store that are in the same category. Parts especially. As seen on many posts on BHs there are people who cannot even do some of the most basic installations or repairs that many others would think nothing of doing.
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OpenMinded1
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by OpenMinded1 »

squirm wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:26 am This is why sites like Project Farm have taken off.
Thanks hadn't heard of that. I'll check it out.
vested1
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by vested1 »

Shallowpockets wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:43 am Several posts here refer to contact by the vendor with offer to replace product free, no need to return. All posts also state they would not change or delete their reviews.
Hmmm.
Aside from validity of vender contacting you, why not see it as a good faith action. Perhaps not change or delete your review, perhaps write another view with the updated information. Someone is trying to rectify a poor customer experience. Is here no chance that you would see it that way?
OP does not state the product he bought, and perhaps the instructions were not as adequate as needed. There are things you can buy in a store that are in the same category. Parts especially. As seen on many posts on BHs there are people who cannot even do some of the most basic installations or repairs that many others would think nothing of doing.
Adding to my comment, I did alter my one star review to a three star and added text that explained the reason for the upgrade was customer service, not the quality of the product. That wasn't enough for the "author" of the emails I kept getting. "She" wanted me to change it to a five star review and delete the wording about the underperformance of the product, which I refused to do. At that point the intention of the seller became clear, which explained the 600 or so 5 star reviews with zero 4 stars and lower reviews.

I didn't accept a refund or upgraded product. Apparently some did. Greed is a great motivator.
Nowizard
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Nowizard »

Interesting. Similar experience with a large company selling, installing, designing landscape. Many 5-star reviews when first went to the site, including one that related to our interest with a date of two-years ago. Went with the company that did a poor job. Later, went to the site and saw the initial review posted "two-years ago." Identical review, same name, but dated "Two-weeks ago." Is on site now, a year later, with date of "Six months ago." I assume software rotates reviews.

Tim
Da5id
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Da5id »

Nowizard wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:22 am Interesting. Similar experience with a large company selling, installing, designing landscape. Many 5-star reviews when first went to the site, including one that related to our interest with a date of two-years ago. Went with the company that did a poor job. Later, went to the site and saw the initial review posted "two-years ago." Identical review, same name, but dated "Two-weeks ago." Is on site now, a year later, with date of "Six months ago." I assume software rotates reviews.

Tim
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Sandtrap
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Sandtrap »

Actionably per forum guidelines……

Read only the negative reviews.

Post 2-3 star product n purchase reviews not 1 star

Vendors will indeed email forever to get a review changed.
Either ignore the emails or get the free product or refund.

It can be helpful and perhaps build a solid customer “profile” to give honest reviews and evaluations.

I wonder if customers are “rated” on various criteria and that profile is visible to the staff when we engage customer service?
(How things work for consumers per forum guidelines…)

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squirm
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by squirm »

OpenMinded1 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:43 am
squirm wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:26 am This is why sites like Project Farm have taken off.
Thanks hadn't heard of that. I'll check it out.
Yeah, very unbiased, he does a lot of garage type stuff reviews.
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Tubes
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Tubes »

Something else to watch are reviews that are tagged as marketing. It is right there in the open. On Amazon, they are "Vine" reviews. On Home Depot, they are "Seeds" reviews.

In those cases, the reviewers receive the product for free and only have to submit a review in return, usually with specifications such as usefulness, length and timeliness. The reviewers can give any star rating. They don't have to give only 5 star reviews.

I was in such a program. I gave many different star ratings, including a few 1's. I had vendors come back at me a bit irritated, but I held firm and would usually add more info about my displeasure. I did not get kicked out of the program.

However, there is a huge issue of psychology in your review when you get something for free. I gotta tell you, it infected my brain. It was really hard to be tough on a review when you get something for free. But the biggest issue is they require you to be very timely in your review. Sometimes you can't live with the product long enough to do a good review.

So, when I see a product with those tags, I like to look at those reviews because I know they'll have to have a lot of good information. However, I also discount the star rating a bit due to "free" psychology. And if the marketing reviewers are giving it bad ratings, run away. It is bad, guaranteed.
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Bogle7
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Bogle7 »

TominToledo wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:49 pm I always read the one star reviews. I find those to be informative. Many of the 5 star reviews are fake in my opinion.
+1
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squirm
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by squirm »

My opinion
4 star = 1 or 2 star
4.5 star = 3 star
5 star = 4 star
Tom_T
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Tom_T »

One of the first things I do with the reviews is to sort them by date. If you see a ton of five-star reviews that were all posted within a couple of days of each other, those are almost certainly all fake. "Oh, look: fifty people just happened to post glowing reviews about this USB cable today! What a coincidence!"

Then, as others have said here, I look for the one-star reviews. The overall rating can be deceiving because even if it's 4.5 stars, if there are enough reviews in total, there can still be a number of poor reviews that are being lost in the overall average. If one person says "this product is well-made" and another says "it's a piece of junk", that's a pretty glaring contradiction, and I'll tend to believe the bad review.

Postscript: I remember when a certain big online retailer only sold books. Times have certainly changed.
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Tubes
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Tubes »

Tom_T wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:18 pm One of the first things I do with the reviews is to sort them by date. If you see a ton of five-star reviews that were all posted within a couple of days of each other, those are almost certainly all fake. "Oh, look: fifty people just happened to post glowing reviews about this USB cable today! What a coincidence!"

Then, as others have said here, I look for the one-star reviews. The overall rating can be deceiving because even if it's 4.5 stars, if there are enough reviews in total, there can still be a number of poor reviews that are being lost in the overall average. If one person says "this product is well-made" and another says "it's a piece of junk", that's a pretty glaring contradiction, and I'll tend to believe the bad review.

Postscript: I remember when a certain big online retailer only sold books. Times have certainly changed.
And some of those 5 star reviews may be "verified purchases." Be careful. I've also been a victim of "brushing." For a few months I was getting packages sent to my house to some random name. I let "big online retailer" know about it, and they seemed to sort of try to stop it, but basically said it is yours or just toss it. It was all crap. Little electronic cables, dongles and accessories, with some adult toys thrown in. Nothing I could use. But since Regneb Blustrup actually bought it, it was a verified purchase.
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OpenMinded1
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by OpenMinded1 »

Shallowpockets wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:43 am Several posts here refer to contact by the vendor with offer to replace product free, no need to return. All posts also state they would not change or delete their reviews.
Hmmm.
Aside from validity of vender contacting you, why not see it as a good faith action. Perhaps not change or delete your review, perhaps write another view with the updated information. Someone is trying to rectify a poor customer experience. Is here no chance that you would see it that way?
OP does not state the product he bought, and perhaps the instructions were not as adequate as needed. There are things you can buy in a store that are in the same category. Parts especially. As seen on many posts on BHs there are people who cannot even do some of the most basic installations or repairs that many others would think nothing of doing.
That's an interesting perspective.

I was impressed with the vendor's refund offer until they made it contingent upon me changing or removing my review. I would have changed my review to include that the vendor had, on its own initiative, contacted me and offered me a refund if the vendor hadn't made the refund contingent upon my changing or removing my negative review.
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Voltaire2.0
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Re: Customer Reviews

Post by Voltaire2.0 »

Interestingly, there is a story in today's Barron's titled: "U.K. Begins Formal Probe of Fake and Paid Reviews on Google and Amazon Sites."

Link to press release: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma- ... ke-reviews
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