outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

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mookie
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outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by mookie »

We're planning to buy a new outdoor hot tub in PA. My wife and I are planning to use it a few times per week throughout the year, and occasionally with friends. Therefore, we're planning for a 220V, 4 or 5/6 person size. Can anyone advise on these questions? Thanks.

--maintenance expectations: my understanding is that we'll need to put in chemicals once/week (takes about 20 minutes), drain it once/season, and that it will cost about $20/month in electricity (current rate is ~$0.13 kWh)

--8x8' concrete (~$20000) vs. EZ pad ($600 + site prep, https://www.ezpads.com/purchase.html). Our proposed site is not level, so with either option we would hire someone to prep the site to make it level.

--brand. It seems like it's mostly one brand per store at the local stores. The stores in our area are Jacuzzi, HotSpring, Dr. Wellness/Aqua Living, Marquis, Master, Evolution (from Costco: https://www.costco.com/evolution-spas-g ... 60708.html)

--features/specific models. I think the most important thing I'm looking for is number of jets and anything that makes maintenance easier and the water cleaner. Not sure how to compare seating arrangements or if UV light is helpful. Radio, waterfall, lights are not important to me.
MarkerFM
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by MarkerFM »

I check the water in our hot tub every day, but it's not necessary. You will want to drain and refill every month to six weeks. The water gets tired after awhile, especially if you use it a bunch.

If you can, pick a private place out of the wind. Ours is on an unused lower patio that's protected from the wind and totally private. No suits required.

You will want some pad space around the hot tub so you can fit the steps. We require everyone to shower and wear footwear until you hit the steps. Keeps the water cleaner.

Check out seating in person if you can. The biggest difference is whether you get a lounger or not. To me, loungers are not necessary unless your hot tub is shallow, but then they take up space. Also, if you are taller or shorter than average, you will want to take this into account.

You will also want free space around it so pumps, etc. can be easily accessed for servicing.

I would get one from a local dealer because you will be relying on them for service unless you are familiar.
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riverant
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by riverant »

Highly highly recommend a salt water generator so you don’t have to add chlorine. Check out troublefreepools.com for instructions of how to maintain the water. Don’t buy the pool store chemicals or let them manage the water. Also note that a 5 person tub comfortably fits 2-3. My 7 seater really only fits 4… the middle seats have nowhere to put feet.
rossiFan
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by rossiFan »

We had a couple of hot tubs when we lived in Texas and hardly ever used them except in fall/winter because it just wasn't pleasant to use when it when it was warm/hot outside. At one house we had a cheapo off-brand tub that turned out to be very reliable. When we moved to a nicer neighborhood we bought a higher end Marquis tub which must have been a lemon because it always needed some sort of maintenance. Keeping the water balanced was a chore because it always seemed to need some chemical balancing.

When we moved to Alaska we bought a Hot Spring tub and it's been very reliable. Also the water chemistry is simple as can be. I don't even check it... just the initial shock when we refill it and then a small amount of chlorine after every session. I suspect a lot of it may depend on the starting chemistry of your local water supply. We refill it approximately every three months and also change the filters on every refill.

We use this tub at least 4 times a week. It sits on an elevated deck (extra support strucure where the tub is located) overlooking a river and is out in the open exposed to the elements. I love tubbing in all conditions... 40mph winds and raining, other times snowing or sleeting, also clear starry nights with the outside temps approaching zero. It's a great way to enjoy the outside in relative comfort no matter what the conditions. We rarely use jets. We prefer a quiet soak listening to nature.

I agree that a typical 5-person tub is really only comfortable for three at most.
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mookie
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by mookie »

TJat wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:48 pm Highly highly recommend a salt water generator so you don’t have to add chlorine. Check out troublefreepools.com for instructions of how to maintain the water. Don’t buy the pool store chemicals or let them manage the water.
Thanks. I had read other posts about people recommending saltwater for pools but haven't heard much about saltwater hot tubs. Does saltwater work well for hot tubs? I think they are quite a bit more expensive and only made by a few brands (HotSprings). Are they straightforward to maintain? This post from troublefreepools.com makes it seem complicated: https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads ... ce.234405/
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Kenkat
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by Kenkat »

I have a Coleman/Maxx Spas hot tub that we bought in 1999 that is still going - longer than I expected honestly. I’ve replaced the pumps and the heater and had a couple of other small issues fixed but the main control board is still good which is my biggest concern going forward.

I currently check pH, Alkalinity and free Chlorine once a week and shock it with Chlorine weekly - about 1/4 cup of granular chlorine seems about right. I used to use an ozonator but they are only good for 3-4 years and I got tired of replacing them so now I use a Nature2 mineral cartridge instead.

Ours is primarily upright seating and holds 5-6 comfortably. I am not a fan of the loungers - they tend to be uncomfortable for me.

I think the number of jets is somewhat overrated; more important is the power of the pump driving the jets and the actual configuration. A few powerful jets can work just as well as many smaller jets. We have the ability to mix air into the flow to also change the effect. We often use it with minimal jets and flow and mostly just soak with minimal circulation from the main pump (we have two total pumps).

We have a bubbler which injects air into the tub from the horizontal portion of the seats; pretty much a total waste, we never use it.

The total square footage of the filter is another important factor in keeping the water clear - ours is 75sf which is pretty good size; less expensive hot tubs tend to under size the filter in my opinion. I spray the filter out every few weeks and change the water when needed - this is very dependent on usage and can be anywhere from every 2-3 months to once a year depending.

I’d say our electricity usage is probably a little higher than $20/mo. Basically nothing in the summer but $50-60 a month in the winter. We tried shutting it down a couple of times over the winter but this was more trouble than it was worth and I always had issues the next spring so now we just run it year round. It’s nice if you get a warmer winter night to have the option. Agree with the poster above that wind is the enemy once it gets chilly out.

Ours is on a concrete slab that we extended off our patio. I think that cost around $1500 and the electrical was around $750 for the 220v hookup.

p.s., You will also want a good cover and a mechanism for lifting the cover and holding it is also a plus. We have a cover lift that the cover hangs on when the hot tub is in use and has the added bonus of providing a little additional privacy as well. Covers don’t last forever - 4 to 5 years seems to be what we get out of them and replacements are $400-500 for decent quality.
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riverant
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by riverant »

mookie wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:09 pm
TJat wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:48 pm Highly highly recommend a salt water generator so you don’t have to add chlorine. Check out troublefreepools.com for instructions of how to maintain the water. Don’t buy the pool store chemicals or let them manage the water.
Thanks. I had read other posts about people recommending saltwater for pools but haven't heard much about saltwater hot tubs. Does saltwater work well for hot tubs? I think they are quite a bit more expensive and only made by a few brands (HotSprings). Are they straightforward to maintain? This post from troublefreepools.com makes it seem complicated: https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads ... ce.234405/
An in-line SWG is a lot more expensive, more than it should be honestly. But i have a “drap over” that I installed aftermarket. Basically a cell that hangs over the side of the tub. It’s called a “chlormaker” and cost about $300. I found manually dumping in chlorine (bleach) every day was a waste of time that invariably got screwed up every time you went away for the weekend.

If you set up the chemicals correctly, you basically never need to touch the chemicals or “shock” or anything like that. I check the chemistry every couple of weeks.
CloseEnough
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by CloseEnough »

I’ve had a jacuzzi brand for over 10 years and it’s been fine, just a few minor maintenance issues. For water, I use bromine not chlorine and also have an oxinator (not sure that’s the technical term) which minimizes need for water changes. I keep water very clean with just 3-4 changes per year. If people are clean when using the tub and not using it as a bathtub your water quality will stay good longer. Also, I prepared our site with just a few inches of gravel topped with a plywood sheet and have never had any issues.
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tyrion
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by tyrion »

mookie wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:09 pm
TJat wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:48 pm Highly highly recommend a salt water generator so you don’t have to add chlorine. Check out troublefreepools.com for instructions of how to maintain the water. Don’t buy the pool store chemicals or let them manage the water.
Thanks. I had read other posts about people recommending saltwater for pools but haven't heard much about saltwater hot tubs. Does saltwater work well for hot tubs? I think they are quite a bit more expensive and only made by a few brands (HotSprings). Are they straightforward to maintain? This post from troublefreepools.com makes it seem complicated: https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads ... ce.234405/
I have one of the Hot Springs salt water hot tubs. I previously had a Costco hot tub in which we used bromine as a sanitizing agent. I also do my own pool and hot tub maintenance, so I have a pretty good understanding of how things work and what needs to be done. Thanks troublefreepool!

The salt water hot tub is really easy to maintain. I checked it frequently at first but now I can get by with checking every 1-2 weeks and it rarely needs any chemicals added. Replace the cartridge every 4 months (hot tub prompts you when), and then you can set a sanitizing level from 1-10. Higher levels means replacing the cartridge more frequently and they run about $240 for a yearly supply. We run ours on 5 or 6 depending on how much it's being used. I have liquid chlorine on hand for the pool so I put a little of that in if we have a pool party and a lot of people are in and out of the hot tub. And that's about it. Change the water once a year (that is the recommendation... apparently the water stays cleaner since you rarely add chemicals). Clean the filters monthly. I used to test with a real water chemistry kit but now just use the quick test strips to make sure everything is balanced properly.

Cons:
Cost. It was expensive to begin with and you're locked in to using their salt water cartridges. Salt water is more corrosive and we did have some jets that got a little rusty after 2 years. We have several different jet sizes and oddly it was all of one type of jet so it may have just been a bad batch. They were all replaced under warranty.

Pros:
It's about as maintenance-free as you can get. I have never added anything other than liquid chlorine in 2-3 years of ownership. Draining/refilling is a once a year event.
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Elric
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by Elric »

Checking chemicals takes far less than 20 minutes. The cartridge system, like Frog Dog, is significantly more expensive for supplies, but also means that while you should check weekly, you usually won't have to do anything for a month at a time. Our first one used the float with bromine tabs, our current one uses the Frog Dog cartridge system, and we like it. We had an ozonator system as well in our first one, but it soon broke and the repair folks said that happened frequently and they weren't worth replacing.

Jets and seats are indeed the most important. Fancy lights, fountains, etc. will almost never be used. Nothing wrong with them, but they don't really add value. We had a bubbler in our first one. We did use it from time to time, but don't really miss it in our current one. (I'd have traded the fountain in our current one for a bubble, though, if that had been an option)

We've had a hot tub for many, many years (actually two, as our first gave out after many years). Both of ours have been Caldera ones, and we're quite happy with that brand.

While a lounge seat reduces seating capacity by about 1, we really like having it. We had one in our first hot tub and made a point of having it in our second.
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CloseEnough
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by CloseEnough »

We have foot jets, on the floor in middle of tub. Highly recommend.
jm1495
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by jm1495 »

tyrion wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:35 am
mookie wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:09 pm
TJat wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:48 pm Highly highly recommend a salt water generator so you don’t have to add chlorine. Check out troublefreepools.com for instructions of how to maintain the water. Don’t buy the pool store chemicals or let them manage the water.
Thanks. I had read other posts about people recommending saltwater for pools but haven't heard much about saltwater hot tubs. Does saltwater work well for hot tubs? I think they are quite a bit more expensive and only made by a few brands (HotSprings). Are they straightforward to maintain? This post from troublefreepools.com makes it seem complicated: https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads ... ce.234405/
I have one of the Hot Springs salt water hot tubs. I previously had a Costco hot tub in which we used bromine as a sanitizing agent. I also do my own pool and hot tub maintenance, so I have a pretty good understanding of how things work and what needs to be done. Thanks troublefreepool!

The salt water hot tub is really easy to maintain. I checked it frequently at first but now I can get by with checking every 1-2 weeks and it rarely needs any chemicals added. Replace the cartridge every 4 months (hot tub prompts you when), and then you can set a sanitizing level from 1-10. Higher levels means replacing the cartridge more frequently and they run about $240 for a yearly supply. We run ours on 5 or 6 depending on how much it's being used. I have liquid chlorine on hand for the pool so I put a little of that in if we have a pool party and a lot of people are in and out of the hot tub. And that's about it. Change the water once a year (that is the recommendation... apparently the water stays cleaner since you rarely add chemicals). Clean the filters monthly. I used to test with a real water chemistry kit but now just use the quick test strips to make sure everything is balanced properly.

Cons:
Cost. It was expensive to begin with and you're locked in to using their salt water cartridges. Salt water is more corrosive and we did have some jets that got a little rusty after 2 years. We have several different jet sizes and oddly it was all of one type of jet so it may have just been a bad batch. They were all replaced under warranty.

Pros:
It's about as maintenance-free as you can get. I have never added anything other than liquid chlorine in 2-3 years of ownership. Draining/refilling is a once a year event.

Do you use the silver ion cartridge in addition in the system? I've got a Flair on order. I'm glad to hear about the lack of maintenance.
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

See if you can find one used, cheap. We had a Jacuzzi in our house when we bought it. Used it maybe 10 times. The room it was in had carpenter ant damage in a wall and we told the contractors to sawzall the thing up. They called me over one day and the way the house was built, it had a beam that supported the weight above it, so they could carry the hot tub out to the lawn. I sold it for $1800. 8 person tub. Never any problems.

An interesting visit I made to a pump maker for hot tubs had me talking to an engineer there. They specified their pump motors for 30 hours MTBF. No, not 30k....30 hours. Why? Because most owners of hot tubs don't use it for more than 30 hours over its entire lifetime.
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tyrion
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Re: outdoor hot tub in PA--buying advice

Post by tyrion »

[/quote]


Do you use the silver ion cartridge in addition in the system? I've got a Flair on order. I'm glad to hear about the lack of maintenance.
[/quote]

We use this-https://hottubstore.com/product/freshwa ... cartridge/

We have either the Flash or the Flair - whichever doesn't have a lounger. It's been a great hot tub. Really easy to maintain once you get the water balanced initially.
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