How to save on water costs?

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Mr. Rumples
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

Catch the AC condensation and use that for watering individual plants in the ground and in pots. Get rain barrels for the downspouts. If you have trees, instead of raking the leaves up and removing them, mulch them up with the mower and use them with soil in pots and for new plantings. Then use them as a top mulch also. They can also just be left on the ground. It looks bad up until spring when they break down adding more organic matter. Pine needles can also be used and don't need to be ground up.

To help water penetrate the yard, de-thatch and also aerate.

Contact your extension agent for native vegetation which can stand up to local conditions and thus won't need much watering.
Last edited by Mr. Rumples on Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Afty
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Afty »

We installed artificial turf in our backyard and drought resistant plants in the front.
Mr. Rumples
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

Afty wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:15 pm We installed artificial turf in our backyard and drought resistant plants in the front.
Some of that new artificial turf is so realistic, you have to touch it to see if its real or not.
"History is the memory of time, the life of the dead and the happiness of the living." Captain John Smith 1580-1631
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

sailaway wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:37 pm Speaking of California and toilets: when it's brown, flush it down, when it's yellow, let it mellow.
Out Totos have two flush buttons, sized differently to make it obvious which one isn’t a full flush. I’m not sure marketing would approve one brown button and a yellow one :D
leftcoaster wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:28 pm Recirculating pump to preheat hot water.
I have ours on a timer and it saves a lot of water. Although, since we have HW temp set high (immune suppressed CDC guidelines) it does cycle the water heater more often, which I can see on our electrical usage spikes. But, since we have more electrons (solar) than water (well), that’s our choice.
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:38 pm Use a dishwasher instead of hand washing. Dishwashers are more efficient than you are.
I don’t know why more people don’t realize that dishwashers are more efficient. The newer German models I’ve owned (Miele and Bosch) are exemplary.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Outer Marker
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Outer Marker »

If you can afford the installation cost, consider putting in a "grey water" system to recycle the water from your shower, sinks and laundry onto the lawn. https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/plumbi ... er-system/ You'll make it back over time, and certainly better for the planet especially if you're in a drought area. I don't like wimpy, low-flow showers, or brown lawns!
lws
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by lws »

I got rid of the lawn. Everything is drought-tolerant.
I try not to waste a drop. I practice extreme conservation.
runner540
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by runner540 »

Take showers at the gym.
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illumination
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by illumination »

Water use really comes from irrigation and a pool. Changing the landscaping is probably the best thing you can do.

Doing things around the house more efficiently with water use is not even a rounding error. That being said, I'l all for being wise with water, but you really are talking about $1-$2 difference a month in water doing less laundry and dishwasher loads, shorter showers, etc.
seawolf21
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by seawolf21 »

illumination wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:37 pm Water use really comes from irrigation and a pool. Changing the landscaping is probably the best thing you can do.

Doing things around the house more efficiently with water use is not even a rounding error. That being said, I'l all for being wise with water, but you really are talking about $1-$2 difference a month in water doing less laundry and dishwasher loads, shorter showers, etc.
+1

Covering 1,000 sqft with 1 in water takes 623 gallons.

Whereas our household of 4 use up to 150 gallons per day. Water efficiency inside the house is literally a drop in the ocean compared with watering the lawn. Getting rid of lawn also removes fertilizers and gas usage if using gas equipment.

Installing flume may give you better visibility into water usage.
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:38 pm Use a dishwasher instead of hand washing. Dishwashers are more efficient than you are.
I don’t know why more people don’t realize that dishwashers are more efficient. The newer German models I’ve owned (Miele and Bosch) are exemplary.
agreed. Models since 2013 uses 3 to 5 gallons max per load. It’s a challenge for many households to be able to handwash the same amount of dishes with 5 gallons. But again it really doesn’t compare with irrigation.
Dregob
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Dregob »

If it is yellow, it is mellow....if it is brown,flush it down.
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quantAndHold
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by quantAndHold »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:38 pm Use a dishwasher instead of hand washing. Dishwashers are more efficient than you are.
I don’t know why more people don’t realize that dishwashers are more efficient. The newer German models I’ve owned (Miele and Bosch) are exemplary.
I know, right? At one point when we were tracking water usage down to the nth degree, we realized we were using more water hand washing dishes than on showers. In the next remodel, we got a dishwasher. Problem solved.
leftcoaster
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by leftcoaster »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:38 pm Use a dishwasher instead of hand washing. Dishwashers are more efficient than you are.
I don’t know why more people don’t realize that dishwashers are more efficient. The newer German models I’ve owned (Miele and Bosch) are exemplary.
Don’t you find yourself using a ton of water rinsing dishes before they go in the dishwasher though?
30west
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by 30west »

Hopefully you have a front loading washing machine, but if you don't - get one. They use approx 6 gallons per load vs 30 gor a top loader.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

leftcoaster wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:55 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:38 pm Use a dishwasher instead of hand washing. Dishwashers are more efficient than you are.
I don’t know why more people don’t realize that dishwashers are more efficient. The newer German models I’ve owned (Miele and Bosch) are exemplary.
Don’t you find yourself using a ton of water rinsing dishes before they go in the dishwasher though?
Not at all. Why would I clean them before cleaning them? The DW does a great job.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Afty
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Afty »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:13 pm
leftcoaster wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:55 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:38 pm Use a dishwasher instead of hand washing. Dishwashers are more efficient than you are.
I don’t know why more people don’t realize that dishwashers are more efficient. The newer German models I’ve owned (Miele and Bosch) are exemplary.
Don’t you find yourself using a ton of water rinsing dishes before they go in the dishwasher though?
Not at all. Why would I clean them before cleaning them? The DW does a great job.
In fact they do a better job if you don’t pre-rinse: https://www.consumerreports.org/dishwas ... ur-dishes/
wolingfeng
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by wolingfeng »

Darn, the water cost can be quite a lot more expensive than what I pay here.. rate here is about 3.60 per 1000 gallons, I only pay about 70 per quarterly for a house of 5. But I guess my kids don’t like to shower every day…
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

My water bill is $15.25 like clockwork.
squirm
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by squirm »

Outdoor watering is where the most of the usage is. Install a flow meter to your PVC irrigation lines or garden hose and see for yourself.
musicmom
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by musicmom »

We're in NJ.
we pay $80 a month for water/sewer/garbage combined.

Stop watering the lawn.
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Beensabu
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Beensabu »

I'm surprised you're allowed to use sprinklers and nobody is giving you a hard time if your area is experiencing a drought. There's always that one yard...

We lived next to the most beautifully landscaped native plant drought-resistant yard once. It's possible. Let the grass die. Research and plant the native stuff that doesn't need much water, with rocks and woodchips to fill the spaces between. Make them bird, butterfly, and bee friendly. Plan paths. Put a bench into a partial hideaway spot. You'll get the most gorgeous gray-green to red-brown to purple range around you that almost has an airbrushed quality to it. It's like twilight in plant form.
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Point
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Point »

You need to do a little math.

How many gallons do you use per month?

How many gallons are used on your lawn?

How many gallons are used for dishwashing?

How many gallons for wash?

How many gallons for showers?

Read your meter before and after doing each of the above.

What percentage does each task use?

Cut back where appropriate.
chuckb84
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by chuckb84 »

We have no grass; almost no one here does. Xeriscape everything and use a drip system. We also installed low volume toilets and a new washing machine.

The one no one thinks of is solar power. Our solar install saves roughly 1,000 gallons/month because we are not using electricity made from a steam thermoelectric cycle. (This applies, to varying degrees, for coal, gas, and nuclear.) This won't lower your water bill, but it is likely the largest decrease you can do in your water footprint.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

chuckb84 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:45 pm The one no one thinks of is solar power. Our solar install saves roughly 1,000 gallons/month because we are not using electricity made from a steam thermoelectric cycle. (This applies, to varying degrees, for coal, gas, and nuclear.) This won't lower your water bill, but it is likely the largest decrease you can do in your water footprint.
Thanks, I didn’t know that. I’ve taken credit for having solar powering our wells (and septic), but hadn’t known that I also avoid some other water use in this indirect way.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
muffins14
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by muffins14 »

Matching the landscape to the local environment seems to make sense for me. I know grass looks nice, but I don’t understand why people insist on having water collected, filtered, cleaned and chemically treated, stored, and then transported through city pipes just to dump it into the desert for a “yard”. Rocks and cactus could be great!
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joeples
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by joeples »

I am a water/sewer professional by trade.

Someone mentioned having a separate irrigation meter to save on sewer charges. You should check into this with your utility. Do you have a sewer system? Are you paying sewer charges for every drop you use? You could fill your pool and irrigate without sewer charges, depending on the practices of your utility.

As some have said, outdoor watering is the usage that makes a difference. All the other things inside the home, like low flow shower heads, toilets, etc. make little difference in your month-to-month bill. They add up for the overall utility in the big picture and help preserve valuable water resources for your community, but do little to actually change your bill.

If you live in Georgia vs. Arizona your outdoor watering needs will be dramatically different. In Georgia a lawn can survive without watering 99% of the time. In Arizona it will die in a 2-weeks. Some arid areas actually give credits (pay you) for removing lawn. It really depends where you live.
mw1739
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by mw1739 »

I use the Rachio irrigation controller. It interfaces with local weather stations to reduce watering when rain is forecasted.
chuckb84
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by chuckb84 »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:34 am
chuckb84 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:45 pm The one no one thinks of is solar power. Our solar install saves roughly 1,000 gallons/month because we are not using electricity made from a steam thermoelectric cycle. (This applies, to varying degrees, for coal, gas, and nuclear.) This won't lower your water bill, but it is likely the largest decrease you can do in your water footprint.
Thanks, I didn’t know that. I’ve taken credit for having solar powering our wells (and septic), but hadn’t known that I also avoid some other water use in this indirect way.
https://www.ncsl.org/Portals/1/Document ... _33640.pdf

Especially Fig. 3. Water used in thermoelectric power generation slightly exceeds agricultural use.
OpenMinded1
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by OpenMinded1 »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:13 pm
leftcoaster wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:55 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:37 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:38 pm Use a dishwasher instead of hand washing. Dishwashers are more efficient than you are.
I don’t know why more people don’t realize that dishwashers are more efficient. The newer German models I’ve owned (Miele and Bosch) are exemplary.
Don’t you find yourself using a ton of water rinsing dishes before they go in the dishwasher though?
Not at all. Why would I clean them before cleaning them? The DW does a great job.
I'll second that. Modern dishwashers do a great job with virtually no rinsing. I scrape the big chunks off, and that's about it.
criticalmass
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by criticalmass »

surfstar wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:45 am We capture the warm up water in a bucket and use that to water backyard trees, etc. It annoys me to think of how much DRINKING water is wasted waiting for water to get hot. Water that is treated to EPA drinking standards, goes down the drain to be treated at a WWTP. Ugh. Our antiquated water systems are so inefficient.
Why not modernize your antiquated water system with a circulator pump. Then you will have hot water at the tap without wasting a drop.

TIP: Don't run the pump continuously. Install a button/timer to run the pump as needed, or even better an automatic switch that senses demand and a thermostat that turns off the pump as the tap gets hot.

Or install instant hot water near the faucet.
Valuethinker
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Valuethinker »

sabhen wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:27 am Our water costs have been increasing in the last few years. We pay about about $100 a month. We have a swimming pool which we enjoy using. There is a drought going on in my area. We have an automatic water sprinkler system for the lawn used very early in the morning. We reduced the frequency of doing laundry wash. planning to install water-saving shower heads. Some neighbours don't water the lawn at all. I am toying with the same idea. What ideas do you have that made a significant dent in water consumption?
In summary of others

- stop watering your lawn. Long run consider shrinking its size - unless you have children who play on it. As they get older a basketball hoop & court is probably preferred.

Green lawns were an 18th century British thing (before lawnmowing machinery) - proved you were rich enough to have servants to cut the lawn with scythes etc (or your sheep would graze the lawn). The taste was imported into North America (Kentucky bluegrass is actually a foreign import) and became a mark of middle classedness (& pride of housekeeping). This was inappropriate in the desert climates west of the Mississippi River in USA (both hot and cold deserts).

The early 20th century was an unusually wet time in the US west (in particular in the Colorado River catchment area). These "droughts" are actually probably part of the cycling of the climate towards a dryer state (albeit with more & heavier flash storms in areas). The wildfires come with them (but are exacerbated by US forestry policy since the early 20th century, around controlling all burns). It means the green lawn is a dinosaur.

- don't run the water continuously to shave or brush teeth etc. This is standard military stuff

- the Navy has a process for showers due to shortage of fresh water. You get wet. You lather with water turned off. Then wash yourself. It's not that hard and if you've ever lived in any place like Africa where hot water is in short supply, it is normal

- rules re toilet flush

- get a front loading washing machine

- use an efficient modern dishwasher in preference to hand washing dishes. I would still rinse them off with cold water before you put them in the machine (I think the manuals say you don't need to - but those food particles have to go somewhere, and my brother has had awful problems with dishwasher failing)

- if legal, water butts to capture water for watering garden plants
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:32 am use an efficient modern dishwasher in preference to hand washing dishes. I would still rinse them off with cold water before you put them in the machine (I think the manuals say you don't need to - but those food particles have to go somewhere, and my brother has had awful problems with dishwasher failing)
I believe that my Miele and Bosch DWs have a grinder for food particles. It seems to work, as there are no food particles in the filter when I periodically check them.

The one thing I do rinse (and actually use a sponge) is peanut butter on a knife. For whatever reason, it’s too sticky for my DW to clean.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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MikeWillRetire
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by MikeWillRetire »

Convince golfers to find another hobby. :wink:
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

criticalmass wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 pm Why not modernize your antiquated water system with a circulator pump. Then you will have hot water at the tap without wasting a drop.

TIP: Don't run the pump continuously. Install a button/timer to run the pump as needed, or even better an automatic switch that senses demand and a thermostat that turns off the pump as the tap gets hot.

Or install instant hot water near the faucet.
IANAP (I am not a plumber). In some homes, it might require some replumbing, although I’ve been told that you don’t need a loop for the water to circulate.

Be aware that your water heater will turn on more often. I don’t want to digress to medical issues, but we have reason to keep our water heater temperature high (140). When the circulator pump runs, and assuming that the plumbing insulation is not as good as the heater insulation (almost certainly the case), the water coming back into the heater is cooler than 140, so the heater will turn on more often. So, you are trading energy usage for water usage. In our case, since we have wells and septic, the trade off is a no brainer.

We have our circulating pumps on smart outlets. We don’t use much hot water at 3AM, and even if we run the DW overnight, it heats its own water.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
criticalmass
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by criticalmass »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:06 am
criticalmass wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 pm Why not modernize your antiquated water system with a circulator pump. Then you will have hot water at the tap without wasting a drop.

TIP: Don't run the pump continuously. Install a button/timer to run the pump as needed, or even better an automatic switch that senses demand and a thermostat that turns off the pump as the tap gets hot.

Or install instant hot water near the faucet.
IANAP (I am not a plumber). In some homes, it might require some replumbing, although I’ve been told that you don’t need a loop for the water to circulate.

Be aware that your water heater will turn on more often. I don’t want to digress to medical issues, but we have reason to keep our water heater temperature high (140). When the circulator pump runs, and assuming that the plumbing insulation is not as good as the heater insulation (almost certainly the case), the water coming back into the heater is cooler than 140, so the heater will turn on more often. So, you are trading energy usage for water usage. In our case, since we have wells and septic, the trade off is a no brainer.

We have our circulating pumps on smart outlets. We don’t use much hot water at 3AM, and even if we run the DW overnight, it heats its own water.
When you run water down the drain to get the bathroom water hot, that causes cold water to come into the heater too, also causing the heater to start and consume energy. --except you are dumping water down the drain too. Water coming out of a well (~55F) is also likely colder than the circulated water, requiring more energy to heat it to operating temperature. The circulator should only run when you actually need hot water. If it is just circulating water around all day, yeah you're going to be using the water tank to heat the house near the pipes---bad idea generally. Only use the circulator to replace pouring water down the drain.
surfstar
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by surfstar »

criticalmass wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 pm
surfstar wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:45 am We capture the warm up water in a bucket and use that to water backyard trees, etc. It annoys me to think of how much DRINKING water is wasted waiting for water to get hot. Water that is treated to EPA drinking standards, goes down the drain to be treated at a WWTP. Ugh. Our antiquated water systems are so inefficient.
Why not modernize your antiquated water system with a circulator pump. Then you will have hot water at the tap without wasting a drop.

TIP: Don't run the pump continuously. Install a button/timer to run the pump as needed, or even better an automatic switch that senses demand and a thermostat that turns off the pump as the tap gets hot.

Or install instant hot water near the faucet.
Our City actually looked at the cost-benefit of recirc pumps and determined that they are not a good option and do not recommend them as retrofits - new construction, sure.
Too much cost for little reward. The bucket method waters our plants with little effort and cost.
michaeljc70
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by michaeljc70 »

sport wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:32 pm Live near one of the Great Lakes. Our water bill is about $30/month. There is no shortage of water and the quality of the municipal water is very good.
Same here. And it has gone up a lot in the last 5 years. It used to be dirt cheap.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by RickBoglehead »

Bathe as a couple. Sometimes you will save water, sometimes you won't. :twisted:
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MathWizard
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by MathWizard »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:06 am
criticalmass wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 pm Why not modernize your antiquated water system with a circulator pump. Then you will have hot water at the tap without wasting a drop.

TIP: Don't run the pump continuously. Install a button/timer to run the pump as needed, or even better an automatic switch that senses demand and a thermostat that turns off the pump as the tap gets hot.

Or install instant hot water near the faucet.
IANAP (I am not a plumber). In some homes, it might require some replumbing, although I’ve been told that you don’t need a loop for the water to circulate.

Be aware that your water heater will turn on more often. I don’t want to digress to medical issues, but we have reason to keep our water heater temperature high (140). When the circulator pump runs, and assuming that the plumbing insulation is not as good as the heater insulation (almost certainly the case), the water coming back into the heater is cooler than 140, so the heater will turn on more often. So, you are trading energy usage for water usage. In our case, since we have wells and septic, the trade off is a no brainer.

We have our circulating pumps on smart outlets. We don’t use much hot water at 3AM, and even if we run the DW overnight, it heats its own water.
We had the electrician wire an outlet for the circulating pump for our kitchen sink/dishwasher supply
This outlet is active only when the light above the sink is on.

We turn the light on for about 10 minutes before we fill the sink to wash dishes, or run the dishwasher.
This allows us to use cheaper Nat Gas to heat the water, not the electric element in the dishwasher.

Some cookware and fancy plates do not go in the dishwasher, and must be washed by hand.
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eye.surgeon
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by eye.surgeon »

jebmke wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:35 am Many (most?) lawns don't require irrigation to survive. Cut high, allow grass to go dormant in drought. Most of the time it will re-bound in the fall. We have ours cut at 4 inches. It will brown off in late summer if we get a very dry spell but when temps cool off and we get rain it always bounces back. One year I had some overseeding done in the fall to refresh the grass but most years it isn't necessary. Nobody around here irrigates -- lawns are simply too big and one would need to ensure well pump is sized to handle the load.

In addition to preserving moisture, cutting high also suppresses weed growth.
This advice is highly region-specific. Here in the central valley of California where daytime temps don't drop below 100 in July and it doesn't rain at all from May-October, my grass would be literally burned to ash if it wasn't watered. And yes I agree it is a waste of a precious resource.
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Ted17
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Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by Ted17 »

Smart sprinkler controller:

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/revi ... ontroller/

We installed a Rachio device two years ago and have been very pleased with it. Haven't run the numbers but it is a watersense certified device and should save us money in the long run if not already:

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/fi ... ollers.pdf

That being said, can't argue with just not watering any grass - it is a ridiculous obession...
mancich
Posts: 1217
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:05 pm

Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by mancich »

If you're going to water, water deeply but infrequently (maybe 1x per week, an inch or so).
We use a soaker hose on a timer for our garden, which works well.
Use the dishwasher with full loads only; handwashing is very inefficient.
Don't brush your teeth or shave with the water running non-stop
Keep an eye on the length of childrens' showers (we have teenage girls - they would shower for 30 minutes if I let them)
Rainbarrel collected from gutter water, with a spigot on the bottom, would be good for filling watering cans for flower pots, etc.
surfstar
Posts: 2853
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: How to save on water costs?

Post by surfstar »

I've NEVER (since childhoold!) run the water constantly while brushing my teeth and later on, shaving. That's just common sense :oops:

I'm astounded that people need to be told this. If you live in an area that has abundant water, it is still just plain wasteful. That is water treated for drinking, running down the drain without being used at all, and then that drinking water is routed to the WWTP. Asinine.

For "navy" showers, we have the Sierra showerhead 1.8 gpm, but with the trickle valve. DW uses it at full blast, I use it always less than full, and the trickle feature if suds-ing up. On average I think we use less than a standard 1.5 gpm model.

I wish CA would start mandating retrofits in multi-family housing. Our last apartment we lived in had an old toilet that was probably 5 gpf. They would have saved money replacing that thing years ago. Just wasteful.

Oh yeah, and then there's commercial and ag...
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