Northwest Indiana - raising a family

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Triple digit golfer
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Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by Triple digit golfer »

I'm a lifelong resident of the Chicago area, currently in the western suburbs, married with a kid. I have the ability to work fully remote at my current job, although I don't expect to have this job in 2-3 years from now. That may become important because it is highly likely that I will be looking for a job in 2-3 years.

We are starting to consider moving out of the Chicago area for various reasons. We would want to remain close to family, who are still in this area, so we were thinking Crown Point, St. John, or Cedar Lake, Indiana. It's only an hour away, but it might as well be ten hours because I know basically nothing about the area. I am starting to research now.

The major reason I am hesitant is that I am a corporate Controller (Accounting and Finance). I don't think I am ready to limit my job opportunities by living somewhere that would have to be a 100% remote position because I may be limiting myself to only 50% or fewer of available jobs. With things opening up quickly, many companies are requiring people back in the office, or at least a day or two a week. I don't know what that will look like in a few years.

Can anybody tell me some things about those three places? Crown Point, St. John, Cedar Lake.

Are they good places to raise a young family through high school?
Above average schools? The only ratings look good, but that doesn't always tell the whole story.
Things to do?
How are the surrounding towns? Crime, drugs, etc. I don't want to be in a nice area but surrounded by bad stuff.
Are there corporate jobs anywhere close or would I be looking in downtown Chicago?
Makefile
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by Makefile »

This won't answer you unfortunately but I'm just curious--isn't it common out there to also consider going across the line into Wisconsin? Is there a different appeal to WI vs. IN?
Topic Author
Triple digit golfer
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by Triple digit golfer »

Makefile wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:39 pm This won't answer you unfortunately but I'm just curious--isn't it common out there to also consider going across the line into Wisconsin? Is there a different appeal to WI vs. IN?
You're correct. NW Indiana is a bit more affordable, and for me closer to my family in IL, who is only about 30 minutes from the Indiana border, but well over an hour from the WI border.
LittleMaggieMae
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

What "qualities" do the houses/schools have in Indiana have that you can't get in an "upper crusty" suburb near Chicago? Are you thinking of moving because "of the Property Taxes"? When you look at over all costs (getting repairs done to your house, commuting to work, getting to and from an airport if you need to travel for work, etc...) is it really "less expensive" to live in Indiana??

Are you moving based on a "gut feeling" or "because everyone sez so" or is this truly a good, long term, financial decision for you and your family???

I'll admit I'm biased - I'm hearing lots of people say they are moving away because of the "taxes" but really they are moving away to be closer to their adult kids/grandkids in other states OR they are moving to be closer to their aging parents (ie they are moving back "home" or to the "old neighborhood" in order to help their aging parents). The decision is financial but it has little to do with the property taxes they are paying here.
Topic Author
Triple digit golfer
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by Triple digit golfer »

LittleMaggieMae wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:26 pm What "qualities" do the houses/schools have in Indiana have that you can't get in an "upper crusty" suburb near Chicago? Are you thinking of moving because "of the Property Taxes"? When you look at over all costs (getting repairs done to your house, commuting to work, getting to and from an airport if you need to travel for work, etc...) is it really "less expensive" to live in Indiana??

Are you moving based on a "gut feeling" or "because everyone sez so" or is this truly a good, long term, financial decision for you and your family???

I'll admit I'm biased - I'm hearing lots of people say they are moving away because of the "taxes" but really they are moving away to be closer to their adult kids/grandkids in other states OR they are moving to be closer to their aging parents (ie they are moving back "home" or to the "old neighborhood" in order to help their aging parents). The decision is financial but it has little to do with the property taxes they are paying here.
It is primarily financial and property taxes are just one piece of the pie. A few other personal non-financial reasons also.
Hoosier CPA
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by Hoosier CPA »

I grew up in that area. Might want to see where they are going to extend the south shore line and buy something strategically located to that.

All those towns run together to some extent, but if you are in Dyer/St John as opposed to Crown Point, you might have better options to get to Chicago since you can pick up 394 in Illinois to go north.

Another option would be out by Chesterton in Porter County - lower property taxes compared to Lake County. You're further East but not as far South. And might have easier access to the South Shore, if working downtown still.

I've been away from there for quite a while but still have family and friends in that area. From what I can tell it's grown a lot from people escaping IL. Crown Point, Munster, Chesterton, Lake Central (St John and Dyer) all have good schools. I'm not familiar with Cedar Lake these days. It's only really been developed the past decade or so.

Nothing wrong with the area - I'd probably move back if my wife had interest - the only downside I'd say is the road system hasn't been invested in sufficiently. I think the rest of Indiana, particularly Indianapolis where decisions are made, kind of ignores the "region."

One last thing for people not from Chicagoland/NW Indiana - the towns you mentioned are just as close to downtown Chicago as many of the more well-known Chicago suburbs in IL. Having said that, you would be further away from some of the job centers in Schaumburg/O Hare area obviously. Heading up there from the NW Indiana every day would not be fun. For flights Midway isn't bad though.
czaj
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by czaj »

Triple digit golfer wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:51 am Can anybody tell me some things about those three places? Crown Point, St. John, Cedar Lake.

Are they good places to raise a young family through high school?
I think so, but it can be a little boring as NWI can feel pretty rural and not very diverse. Those three towns are fairly small; one town won't have everything.
Triple digit golfer wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:51 am Above average schools? The only ratings look good, but that doesn't always tell the whole story.
Yup, I think Lake Central and Crown Point are good, while Hanover is decent. I think Hanover is pretty small while the Lake Central system is pretty big as it covers the “tri-towns” (Saint John, Schererville, and Dyer). One nice thing about Indiana is that if your kids take AP classes in high school, they’ll get dual credit that can count toward college credit to Indiana universities without taking AP exams.
Triple digit golfer wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:51 am Things to do?
Limited restaurants. Crown Point has a small but nice downtown (the Square) that has restaurants, bars, and small shops. If you like beer, 3 Floyds is in the area and most restaurants will have it on tap.
Golf
Frolf (Lemon Lake)
Hiking and beaches at Indiana Dunes
Fair Oaks
Kankakee Sands Bison Viewing
Summer festivals (Pierogi fest)
Triple digit golfer wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:51 am How are the surrounding towns? Crime, drugs, etc. I don't want to be in a nice area but surrounded by bad stuff.
The area and surrounding areas feel very safe.
Triple digit golfer wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:51 am Are there corporate jobs anywhere close or would I be looking in downtown Chicago?
I'm not sure, but I think there are more corporate jobs in Merrillville.
MP173
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by MP173 »

NW Indiana resident here - Valparaiso. I also work (sales) in Chicago and have made thousands of trips to Chicago and suburbs over the career. Hence, I have seen the Illinois side and have resided (40+ years) in NW Indiana.

Lots of movement from Il to NW Indiana (and also across the Cheddar curtain). Why? Taxes, considerably lower housing costs and very good schools. Great schools? Probably not as elite as some of the NorthShore schools.

Housing prices are bidding up (as everywhere). Hence property taxes are also getting pushed up. Still, our property tax on a similar sized house to Western Suburbs and Northern Suburbs are about 1/4 to 1/3. How do I know this? I have compared with co-worker and a supplier. Similar sized houses (3000 sq ft).

Traffic to and from Illinois can be tough, but so can the suburban Illinois routes. Typically I can get downtown in less than an hour.
The South Shore Railroad is a viable option for those working downtown and expansion of the rail line is planned.

The job market is not as strong for your line of work, but there are a number of companies which either have moved or planning to move out here.

I would strongly suggest taking a look at the 3 communities you mentioned... Crown Point has a good school system as does Lake Central (Schererville, Dyer, St. John). Both of these are big schools districts. Cedar Lake is smaller, but growing.

If you are considering Cedar Lake, you might want to look at Chesterton and Valparaiso which are similar length of commutes as Cedar Lake. Both of these are more established "towns" (as is Crown Point) while others are more housing centers without the downtown districts.

Oh, BTW...our state government runs a balanced budget and has no major debt issues.

Ed
MMiroir
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by MMiroir »

We looked at NW Indiana, and while the low cost of housing was nice, we passed for several reasons.

1 - While in terms of distance NW Indiana is no further from downtown than some Chicago suburbs, the traffic to get into Chicago is much worse, as is commuter train service. I-94 is a major truck route, and it routinely backs up with hour plus delays in either direction. Getting to Midway is a pain.

2 - Oddly enough, the weather in NW Indiana is worse than in suburban Chicago. They constantly get lake effect snow, so a one or two inch downfall in suburban Chicago becomes six inches in NW Indiana. Colder in winter and hotter in summer is not a good combination.

3 - The towns in NW Indiana are relatively charmless. For the most part they were built up in the 60's and 70's and are just large grids built around suburban shopping strips.

4 - The public school system is mediocre at best. If you are happy with Orland/Tinley Park level schools, they might be fine, but the top public schools in Illinois like New Trier, Stevenson, or Hinsdale are much better.

5 - The housing stock is mostly low quality tract housing. Even the executive homes are mostly just super-sized tract homes.

The one town we did like in NW Indiana is Valparaiso. Perhaps because of the college influence, but it seemed more interesting than the others. Of course, it is further away which makes commuting a challenge.

Another advantage of Indiana is the college system. It is much easier to get into Purdue/IU than the equivalent major at UIUC, and tuition is much cheaper. I think for a family with limited income potential, NW Indiana might make a better choice, but for someone with a financial job/executive position, one is probably better off staying in Illinois.
czaj
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by czaj »

MMiroir wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:55 pm 2 - Oddly enough, the weather in NW Indiana is worse than in suburban Chicago. They constantly get lake effect snow, so a one or two inch downfall in suburban Chicago becomes six inches in NW Indiana. Colder in winter and hotter in summer is not a good combination.
The climate is not significantly different. Lake-effect snow can affect any areas around Lake Michigan depending on the flow.
texasdiver
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by texasdiver »

When I think of NW Indiana Chicagoland I think of Gary and Hammond. But I guess that's because those are the towns I always passed through on I-90 in route to Chicago when we lived in the South Bend area years ago.

I hope the towns you are talking about are nicer than that!
sschoe2
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by sschoe2 »

I expect NW Indiana to continue to see rapid growth from Illinois expatriates. However, I would agree you want to be close to the South Shore line so you have the option to commute downtown. There was a thread a few weeks ago where someone posted a Fred chart overlaying real estate from several Illinois counties vs the bordering Wisconsin and Indiana counties and it was sobering.

I have lived in Illinois all my life and I want to leave too.
MMiroir
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by MMiroir »

Here is the chart. The baseline is set to 2007 or right at the peak before the last housing recession.

Image

According to the index, Lake County Indiana is up 14 percent since the prior high, while Kenosha County is up 3%. All of the Illinois counties are down, with DuPage being the healthiest at 93 percent of the prior peak. Note that is does not reflect housing value, just the average sales price. Areas like Kenosha and Lake County IN has lots of new construction and a low value for their existing housing stock, so new construction will drive values upward. In contrast, areas like Lake County IL has a very high priced stock in the southeast quadrant of the county, but much of the new housing stock is more moderately priced which keeps the index low.
ACN
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by ACN »

Go more east.. Valpo or South Bend.
Rdytoretire
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by Rdytoretire »

czaj wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:21 pm
MMiroir wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:55 pm 2 - Oddly enough, the weather in NW Indiana is worse than in suburban Chicago. They constantly get lake effect snow, so a one or two inch downfall in suburban Chicago becomes six inches in NW Indiana. Colder in winter and hotter in summer is not a good combination.
The climate is not significantly different. Lake-effect snow can affect any areas around Lake Michigan depending on the flow.
The "flow" is typically from the north or northwest in winter this means that parts of Indiana near Lake Michigan are in the snow belt. I live in the Chicago area and would not move to some place like South Bend simply because I do not want to deal with more snow.

South Bend In. averages 63 inches of snow per year while Chicago averages 36 inches.
regionrat
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by regionrat »

I’ve lived in NWI my entire life. Worked downtown Chicago for 22 years as an executive at a global PR/advertising agency. Now at a global company headquartered here.

Colleagues from The western suburbs were always astonished when they’d visit my place. We had roughly equal commutes, but I had twice the house for half the price and a quarter of the taxes.

St. John is very affluent. Second in the state only to Carmel in per capita income. Very much a bedroom community, however. Town planners seem very content to let the entertainment options go elsewhere to keep things nice and quiet.

Crown Point also very nice. Cute downtown. Cedar Lake is just starting to really develop. Valpo has a really fun vibe and walkable downtown with great restaurants.

Dyer is also pretty sleepy and not as fancy as St John or Crown Point. Schererville has some nice areas but is getting a little run down in parts.

Every area is a little different so it depends what your family is looking for. As others have said everything is booming here right now. I get offers for my home from people driving by when I’m out working in the yard!

For someone with a finance background there are several large companies here, major hospitals and regional banks as well. Downtown Chicago isn’t that far away either. I did the commute for two decades no sweat. How you do the commute just changes a bit based on where you live.

Find a friend or good realtor who will be willing to take you through different areas to get a vibe for each or at least point you to the neighborhoods that fit your tastes, budget and lifestyle.
Hoosier CPA
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by Hoosier CPA »

Rdytoretire wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:06 pm
czaj wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:21 pm
MMiroir wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:55 pm 2 - Oddly enough, the weather in NW Indiana is worse than in suburban Chicago. They constantly get lake effect snow, so a one or two inch downfall in suburban Chicago becomes six inches in NW Indiana. Colder in winter and hotter in summer is not a good combination.
The climate is not significantly different. Lake-effect snow can affect any areas around Lake Michigan depending on the flow.
The "flow" is typically from the north or northwest in winter this means that parts of Indiana near Lake Michigan are in the snow belt. I live in the Chicago area and would not move to some place like South Bend simply because I do not want to deal with more snow.

South Bend In. averages 63 inches of snow per year while Chicago averages 36 inches.
South Bend is quite far East - the area the OP is talking about is just over the border. Lots of newer development in the Crown Point/Dyer/St John area. Different world from Gary/Hammond and more of the industrial areas surrounding them.
MP173
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Re: Northwest Indiana - raising a family

Post by MP173 »

I posted above but will follow up.

Ate breakfast at a local restaurant and overheard a conversation (10 men before work) and discussed a small county school just south of Valpo. My oldest son went there - very good basic education and his class size was 50 which probably had something to do with the quality. Anyway the conversation centered around a young man (part of the work crew) and he indicated most of the school now is Chicago families which moved in. The "farm community" is being consumed by subdivisions!

To qualify what was said above...yeah, we get a little snow, but the snow removal here is excellent. I 94 can be difficult but no worse than the Bishop Ford, Dan Ryan, Stevenson, Ike, or especially the Kennedy. The past 15 months with WFH has left the expressways very fluid. The quality of restaurants is very high...not downtown loop quality, but very good, and much lower in price. My son who lives in Ukranian Village confirms this. BTW he and his wife are fed up with Chicago....she is tethered due to an ill parent. I expect them to move in the future. He regularly drives out here (2x month) to play golf.

Valparaiso University adds a little culture, if one is seeking that. For most of us Hoosiers "culture" centers around watching our kids perform school plays, band, and sports. Downtown Valpo is growing leaps and bounds....several condo units going up, primarily marketed for empty nesters who want to downsize and get rid of the lawn mower, and also walk downtown for dinner. There is a very nice downtown park area with concerts, ice skating, farmers markets, movie night, etc. As my Chicago domiciled son recently commented...there is a lot more to do here than 15 years ago.

My guess is Crown Point will be similar. Chesterton, which I am familiar has a new high school and lots of housing developments. Downtown is ok, but not as special as Valpo or Crown Point. Munster is a very nice community (excellent schools), just south of I94 and adjacent to Illinois. Probably hard to buy a house there.

Michigan City is on the rise. Why? Lake Michigan has offered the FIPs an alternative to New Buffalo which is built out. Michigan City has direct service to the city via South Shore. Schools are getting better...but have a ways to go (my wife is a MC resident and worked in the school system...she knows). However, a couple of private schools are available, including LaLamiure - Chief Justice Roberts attended.

Houses in Valpo Chesterton area were typically about $50k cheaper than equivilant Schererville, Dyer, Crown Point houses before the recent explosion in prices. I know as family members compared and ended up between Valpo and Chesterton.

I agree with above poster regarding the schools compared to New Trier, Winnetka, etc, but if you are of the feeling that only the best education will do and that is a springboard (and the only springboard) for success then one should probably live in the north suburbs.

Yes, we have the steel mills and the refinery, but those industries supply very high paying union jobs....lots of F150 pickup trucks on the road these days.

If you cant tell, I like it here. I used to enjoy going to Chicago for work, but things have changed...dramatically.

Ed
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