Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

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URSnshn
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Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by URSnshn »

We have sweet ants on the outside of our home and have had issues with them inside. We don't like using insecticides unless they are absolutely necessary. The issue is a slate patio that has some ant hills and we have observed some ants on the steps leading to the rear of the house. When it rains the patio directly drains into the underground water pipe that collects water from our gutters. The insecticide they are using is Maxxthor SC or Bithor SC and it says that it is not good for the water supply system and so it is best sprayed when no rain will occur over a 24 hour period (but they might be assuming in the directions that it is sprayed over dirt not slate). The slate patio will be entirely covered in the insecticide and it is so close to the water drain, I am hesitant to cover my patio with the insecticide if there is any chance it might harm the water system. I am wondering if these insecticides are appropriate for a patio which drains directly into the water system even if left on for 24 hours without rain Anyone here have any thoughts on this?

I was going with a reputable local exterminator due to past experiences with ant issues and I've been adised to clean up any ant hills outside the home.

Edit to add type of ants.
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Flobes
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by Flobes »

Diatomaceous Earth.

100 natural. Non-toxic. "Food-grade" available. White powder. Rain washes away residue.

It's my "Go To' for ants.

Totally safe for humans and pets. Totally kills insects.
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life in slices
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by life in slices »

My go to for sweet ants in the house is putting some drops of Terro along baseboards - Terro is a Borax solution, which in general is about as safe as you can get. They will swarm the Terro and take it back to others/queen/nest and kill off the colony
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by hicabob »

Flobes wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:19 am Diatomaceous Earth.

100 natural. Non-toxic. "Food-grade" available. White powder. Rain washes away residue.

It's my "Go To' for ants.

Totally safe for humans and pets. Totally kills insects.
Diatomaceous earth is a wonderful insecticide ... but try not to breath the dust in too much. Webmd says .....

"If diatomaceous earth is inhaled, it may irritate the nasal passages. If a large amount is inhaled, it may cause coughing and/or shortness of breath. Diatomaceous earth can also cause skin irritation and dryness and eye irritation.

Inhaled amorphous silicon dioxide particles can accumulate in the lung tissue, bronchi, pulmonary alveoli, and lymph nodes. Continued inhalation of diatomaceous earth has been tied to several diseases, including lung cancer, silicosis, and nonmalignant respiratory diseases."
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by rick51 »

life in slices wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:51 am My go to for sweet ants in the house is putting some drops of Terro along baseboards - Terro is a Borax solution, which in general is about as safe as you can get. They will swarm the Terro and take it back to others/queen/nest and kill off the colony
I’ve had good results with the Terro products too. They sell a version for outdoor use. It’s a small green plastic container that is pointed on one side to push into the ground.
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by iamlucky13 »

URSnshn wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:26 am I am wondering if these insecticides are appropriate for a patio which drains directly into the water system even if left on for 24 hours without rain Anyone here have any thoughts on this?
The label should contain the authoritative information on this. The user is supposed to read it carefully and follow what it says. Most pesticides are subject to EPA registration, which includes specifying how it can be used. You will generally see the label include a statement to the effect of, "It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling."

I'm not familiar with the substances you mentioned, but looking up a label for Maxxthor SC, it says:
Do not apply within 10 feet of storm drains. Do not apply within 25 feet of aquatic habitats (such as, but not limited to, lakes; reservoirs; rivers; permanent streams; marshes or ponds; estuaries; and commercial fish farm ponds).
....
Other than applications to building foundations, all outdoor applications to impervious surfaces such as sidewalks, driveways, patios, porches and structural surfaces (such as windows, doors and eaves) are limited to spot and crack-and-crevice applications only.
It sounds like it is probably not suited for treatment of a full patio. There are other instructions in there about treating walls or a strip at the perimeter of a building.

Terro and other similar products (borax sweetened with sugar or syrup - some people mix their own) work really well for sugar ants, but a lot of other ant species ignore it. Borax is a common household cleaning product. This would be the first thing I would try because it is cheap, easy, and very low concern, before bringing in an exterminator.
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GMCZ71
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by GMCZ71 »

We use the Diatomaceous earth on flat surfaces outside the house ex: concrete slabs or gravel areas etc. For the vertical surface where ants can enter the house like foundations and posts we use this type Maxxthor SC or Bithor SC when the weather is going to be dry for 3 plus days. No chance it can get washed off and only under an over hang. Finally we use the terro a little bit in the house as the 3rd line of defense. There is always a new colony headed your way so I try to reapply at about the 7-8 month mark.
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by Call_Me_Op »

I would not spray poisons around my house (even outside). That is not the right way to get rid of ants. You can use the Terro outdoor bait stations. Terro uses water, sugar and 5.4% Borax. It is only mildly toxic if ingested by people (please don't) or animals, but works wonders on ants since it is a slow-acting bait. The ants take it to the nest and it gets all of them - including the queens. Also, they cannot develop resistance to it.
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by RubyTuesday »

Is the Diatomaceous earth safe if dogs use the patio? Wondering about them inhaling too much.

Same question for sweetened borax? Will dogs eat it?
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Topic Author
URSnshn
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by URSnshn »

Thank you all including lamlucky13 who spoke directly to the label on the Maxxthor product. I will not be using either of the products I mentioned on my patio. I will try another option and I appreciate the suggestions.
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by Bill2020 »

I know some people that swear by a home made spray with vinegar (2 cups), dish soap (2 TBL), and baking soda (2TBL). It supposedly messes with their sent trail or acts as a barricade.
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by TT »

delete
Last edited by TT on Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by livesoft »

Terro will probably work and is essentially non-toxic and cheaper. I would try it first.

Bithor SC is imidacloprid and bifenthrin, so a chloro-nicotinyl plus pyrethroid insecticide while Maxxthor is just bifenthrin. One can read about bifenthrin on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifenthrin It is similar to permethrin used for scabies and to spray on clothes as well as allethrin used in Thermacell for mosquitoes and breathed in by many people. Similar insecticides are Triazicide for instance.

I do not understand why you are spraying the slate patio at all. Why are there ant hills on slate? Maybe show a photo? Just spray the "mounds" or around the edge of the patio in the dirt first and see what happens.

"The compounds have low toxicity for humans and birds. It is highly toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates. At normal application rates, allethrin is slightly toxic to bees.[1] Insects subject to exposure become paralyzed (nervous system effect) before dying. Allethrins are toxic to cats[2] because they either do not produce, or produce less of certain isoforms of glucuronosyltransferase, which serve in hepatic detoxifying metabolism pathways.[3]"
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

I would suggest a potential double treatment.

You might think that they are sweet ants, but some ants switch from sugar to protein and back and forth based on the health of the colony.

You could put out some https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Q3QQNC/ and see if they go gangbusters over it.. if they don't, then consider spreading some: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030697TQ/

Note, the liquid sugar bait is a touch faster acting then the protein bait, however both take time to work, you will see more ants while they are going gang busters over the bait, instead of less, do not run out of bait available. if you keep seeing ants come to the bait, keep adding more.
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Re: Insecticide on Slate Patio (sweet ants)?

Post by JAZZISCOOL »

Flobes wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:19 am Diatomaceous Earth.

100 natural. Non-toxic. "Food-grade" available. White powder. Rain washes away residue.

It's my "Go To' for ants.

Totally safe for humans and pets. Totally kills insects.
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