Windows 11 [Upgrade from Win 10 to Win 11?]

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CRJPylote
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Re: Windows 11

Post by CRJPylote »

I'm probably gonna keep 10 for awhile (maybe until it no longer gets security patches.) I am slowly migrating to Linux in a dual boot setup, but have a few things that need windows.
roamingzebra
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Re: Windows 11

Post by roamingzebra »

Tubes wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:44 am
roamingzebra wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:17 am
I'm still hoping someone can definitively answer the question of whether it is required to set up a Microsoft account on a new PC (laptop) if one is only going to overwrite Windows 11 and install Linux on that PC.
Focusing on this question... All you need is a bootable USB device with the Linux boot image on it. (Or a CD, although that is getting less common.) Once you have this, you don't need Microsoft anything. You WILL need to be sure your BIOS will boot from USB, and it is likely you'll have to direct it to do so as #1 in sequence in order to ignore the Windows image. There will be a sequence of keystrokes to press when turning on the laptop in order to get to BIOS.

With that in place, turn on the computer with the USB in it, and the Linux distro should present you questions to install. One will be to nuke everything and overwrite whatever is there, be it Windows 3.1 or Windows 11.
Okay, thanks. It sounds like business as usual for installing Linux on bare metal.

I guess I'll have to wait and see re: using Win 11 as a host with Linux guest additions.

Perhaps an easier question to get at what I'm after is to ask if Win 11 users who don't plan to connect to the Internet will have to create a Microsoft account. (For those unfamiliar, the account requirement is brand new with Win 11. It is not the local account spoken of earlier.) I would like to think that users don't have to access the internet and sign up with Microsoft to use a Win 11 PC locally. That makes no sense. But so far, I've not found an answer on this.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

roamingzebra wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:17 pm
Tubes wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:44 am
roamingzebra wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:17 am
I'm still hoping someone can definitively answer the question of whether it is required to set up a Microsoft account on a new PC (laptop) if one is only going to overwrite Windows 11 and install Linux on that PC.
Focusing on this question... All you need is a bootable USB device with the Linux boot image on it. (Or a CD, although that is getting less common.) Once you have this, you don't need Microsoft anything. You WILL need to be sure your BIOS will boot from USB, and it is likely you'll have to direct it to do so as #1 in sequence in order to ignore the Windows image. There will be a sequence of keystrokes to press when turning on the laptop in order to get to BIOS.

With that in place, turn on the computer with the USB in it, and the Linux distro should present you questions to install. One will be to nuke everything and overwrite whatever is there, be it Windows 3.1 or Windows 11.
Okay, thanks. It sounds like business as usual for installing Linux on bare metal.

I guess I'll have to wait and see re: using Win 11 as a host with Linux guest additions.

Perhaps an easier question to get at what I'm after is to ask if Win 11 users who don't plan to connect to the Internet will have to create a Microsoft account. (For those unfamiliar, the account requirement is brand new with Win 11. It is not the local account spoken of earlier.) I would like to think that users don't have to access the internet and sign up with Microsoft to use a Win 11 PC locally. That makes no sense. But so far, I've not found an answer on this.
Admittedly, you lost me...

Using a Microsoft Account to sign into a Windows computer is not "brand new with Windows 11". It's been around since Windows 8 (or 8.1) days if I recall. And I've been using it since...

The alternative is to use a "local" account, meaning an account that only exists on the local computer (like they did exclusively for Windows 7 and earlier computers that weren't connected to a "domain" - aka weren't work computers).

As previously mentioned, a quick search for "windows 11 local account" should give you what you need.

Perhaps a direct link to one of the results will help you realize this question was already answered: https://youtu.be/2Y6McVVELzM

And if not, I'm still at a loss as the above does what I understand you are trying to accomplish... Please tell me what I'm missing...
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Re: Windows 11

Post by roamingzebra »

SnowBog wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:19 pm
Admittedly, you lost me...

Using a Microsoft Account to sign into a Windows computer is not "brand new with Windows 11". It's been around since Windows 8 (or 8.1) days if I recall. And I've been using it since...
Sorry, I meant to say that the "mandatory" requirement to use a Microsoft account is brand new with Windows 11. Admittedly I don't know much about this new mandatory account other than that it is mandatory. I'm trying to get a better feel for what mandatory means. My longstanding practice has been to not let Windows OS touch the internet and that has been possible with Win 10. I want to make sure that is still an option for Win 11.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by tortoise84 »

Bagels wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:00 am If I bought a laptop that just had Linux installed, would it be difficult to add Windows later for dual boot? (I have only put Linux on Windows machines in the past).
Windows 11 requires Secure Boot and will also overwrite your Linux bootloader. You'll have to do some work to get your Linux bootloader back, and I'm not sure if yours is compatible with Secure Boot or if you can simply disable Secure Boot after installing Win11, but I believe it's still possible.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

roamingzebra wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:47 am
SnowBog wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:19 pm
Admittedly, you lost me...

Using a Microsoft Account to sign into a Windows computer is not "brand new with Windows 11". It's been around since Windows 8 (or 8.1) days if I recall. And I've been using it since...
Sorry, I meant to say that the "mandatory" requirement to use a Microsoft account is brand new with Windows 11. Admittedly I don't know much about this new mandatory account other than that it is mandatory. I'm trying to get a better feel for what mandatory means. My longstanding practice has been to not let Windows OS touch the internet and that has been possible with Win 10. I want to make sure that is still an option for Win 11.
Umm... I'm not seeing where this is a mandatory requirement.

Did you look at the link I shared? That seemed a pretty clear way to setup Windows without a Microsoft Account... What am I missing??
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

lws wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:33 pm Upgraded to Win 11. One machine is good the other too old.
Snipping Tool is incompatible with Windows 11.
They need to fix this fast.
It is a confirmed bug, per Bug prevents some apps and Settings page from opening on Windows 11 - gHacks and directly from Microsoft, Windows 11 known issues and notifications | Microsoft Docs.
Microsoft wrote:This is caused by an issue with a Microsoft digital certificate, which expired October 31, 2021.

<snip> (pun intended)

Next steps: We are working on a resolution and will provide an update when more information is available.
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Mel Lindauer
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Mel Lindauer »

I know we have lots of techies here, so I'd like to know your thoughts on what one would supposedly gain by updating to Windows 11. I'm perfectly happy with 10, so would it be wise to wait while all the bugs get exposed and corrected?

What excites you about 11? Appreciate your thought.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by bertilak »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:45 am I know we have lots of techies here, so I'd like to know your thoughts on what one would supposedly gain by updating to Windows 11. I'm perfectly happy with 10, so would it be wise to wait while all the bugs get exposed and corrected?

What excites you about 11? Appreciate your thought.
Sticking with Windows 10 for a while is a reasonable course of action. So is moving on to Windows 11.

In my case I was curious about Windows 11 so made the switch. I am not sorry. The only glitch I have noticed (so far) is the is the sniping tool bug but there are reasonable workarounds until MS addresses it. All my main applications (Quicken, Word, Excel, various browsers, etc.) work as if nothing has changed. I do like the look-and-feel of W11 but it is really not a big deal. It only requires a small bit of getting used to. The fonts are nicer.

My biggest disappointment was the start menu. I had all my apps and tools arranged but now everything is just a big list so my careful organization is gone. It does put the most used at the top. Perhaps there is a way to improve on this but I haven't discovered it out yet. I expect many (most) people won't care. My wife at first didn't even know she had control over this and when I tried to show her how tidy she could make things she basically didn't care and wondered what I was going on about. She basically treats her computerlike the junk drawer in the kitchen --- just a bunch of miscellaneous "stuff."
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Kagord »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:45 am I know we have lots of techies here, so I'd like to know your thoughts on what one would supposedly gain by updating to Windows 11. I'm perfectly happy with 10, so would it be wise to wait while all the bugs get exposed and corrected?

What excites you about 11? Appreciate your thought.
I upgraded on 2 systems just to try out, I don't see any advantage, so no excitement. It has been stable, I'm not seeing any bugs that impact how I use a system.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:45 am I know we have lots of techies here, so I'd like to know your thoughts on what one would supposedly gain by updating to Windows 11. I'm perfectly happy with 10, so would it be wise to wait while all the bugs get exposed and corrected?

What excites you about 11? Appreciate your thought.
As simple as it might sound, one of my favorite features is the "snap" piece for showing multiple things on the screen at once, and the fact that you can treat them as a group.

The first part isn't entirely new... Windows has supported having a split screen for awhile, where you can drag a screen to either side (or IIRC hit Windows - right or left arrow key) and it will take up 50% of the screen and let you put something on the other side.

But Windows 11 let's you hover over the "resize" (where you click to make full screen/minimize) and gives way more options, including more than just 2 items on the screen at once - very useful if you have large monitors.

The other piece is new... Normally doing something like alt-tab will let you cycle through individual windows. But when you have something split screen, that usually means pulling up only 1 of the 2 sides then going and pulling up the other one. Now as you alt-tab through, you can see your "group" and switch to the entire group at once.

As a personal example, I usually have my spreadsheet for tracking investments open at the same time as a site I'm updating from - like Fidelity. The old "split" screen didn't give enough real estate to Fidelity, so things like cost basis wasn't displayed. (You can resize, but you have to do that each time.) On Win 11 I can give the majority of the screen to Fidelity and almost a "sidebar" view to my spreadsheet (which is all I need, I just have to update # of shares and cost basis). And if I open another site, like Mint, I can toggle between it and the "group" of both Fidelity + spreadsheet (or I could add Mint to the group with a different layout).

There are some other streamlined, cleaned up, modernized pieces as well - such as not having tons of icons on the task bar and consolidating logical controls together.

But so far the "snap" piece, as simple / stupid as it may sound, has probably been my biggest personal benefit.

Having said that, I'm always an early technology adopter, and am able to troubleshoot and most times resolve any issues on my own. So I've been running pre-release versions for awhile. For those who have aversion to change, or just think any new OS is "risky" until bugs get worked out (like apparently the snip tool noted above), I've got no problems recommending they stay on Windows 10 until they are comfortable to change or until Windows 10 is no longer supported - which ever comes first.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by bertilak »

SnowBog wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:45 am But so far the "snap" piece, as simple / stupid as it may sound, has probably been my biggest personal benefit.
I wasn't aware of this feature. It needs to be enabled in settings. I'll be checking it out. I do find myself moving windows about to see what's underneath. Perhaps this will help.
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SnowBog
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

bertilak wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:08 am
SnowBog wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:45 am But so far the "snap" piece, as simple / stupid as it may sound, has probably been my biggest personal benefit.
I wasn't aware of this feature. It needs to be enabled in settings. I'll be checking it out. I do find myself moving windows about to see what's underneath. Perhaps this will help.
Hmm... I don't remember having to enable anything on my multiple devices. I have two that were pre-release versions, one that's been upgraded since, and one that came pre-installed on new Surface Go 2.

I'll have to look to see if there's a setting when I'm back on my Windows device...
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Re: Windows 11

Post by roamingzebra »

SnowBog wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:57 am Umm... I'm not seeing where this is a mandatory requirement.

Did you look at the link I shared? That seemed a pretty clear way to setup Windows without a Microsoft Account... What am I missing??
I didn't look at the link because it was a video (personal preference is to read text), but I have found some workarounds.

Here is the issue I was getting at:

Microsoft Account is Necessary for Windows 11 Set-up
Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft account to finish device setup on the first usage,
Now to the workarounds.

How To Install Windows 11 Without Microsoft Account
Steps to install Windows 11 Home without a Microsoft account

Step 1: Once you install Windows 11, your PC restarts and you arrive at the Windows Out of Box Experience (OOBE).

Step 2: Follow the steps until you get to the “Add your account” screen which prompts you to sign in to your Microsoft account or create one if you don’t have one.

Step 3: Now you need to enter an email address that does not exist, for example, d@d.com, then click Next.

Step 4: Type any password, for example, 1, then click Connect.

Step 5: The “Sorry, an error has occurred” error message will appear; Click on Next.

Step 6: Choose don’t sign with a Microsoft account and click Next.

Step 7: You can now create a local user account and continue with Windows 11 setup.

That’s it; You have installed Windows 11 OS with a local user account and without a Microsoft account.


Alternative Method: Disable Internet Connection

You need to disable your internet connection at the time of installation.

Once you see “Let’s Connect You To A Network” during installation, enter “Shift” and “F10” on the keyboard at the same time.

It will bring up the Command Prompt where you have to execute the following command line:

taskkill /F /IM oobenetworkconnectionflow.exe

Now you will be able to enter local account information.
A Reddit user makes the second method a little clearer:
It's not required with a new setup, at least. I bypassed it on Home without even knowing about the "restriction". You need to have your internet cable connected or you can't go to the next step when it checks for a connection. If you keep the cable on when it goes to the account part, it will try to force an online account but just take it off and it will switch to creating a local one.
The trick seems to be in the timing of disconnecting the cable.

Some of the language in these articles is confusing because they sometimes talk of "installation" and sometimes talk of "set-up". It's been years since I've actually purchased a PC and I don't remember what the screen showed when I first turned the computer on. But I certainly wasn't "installing" Windows. I supposed I was "setting it up" but I don't even remember that!
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

roamingzebra wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:17 am
SnowBog wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:57 am Umm... I'm not seeing where this is a mandatory requirement.

Did you look at the link I shared? That seemed a pretty clear way to setup Windows without a Microsoft Account... What am I missing??
I didn't look at the link because it was a video (personal preference is to read text), but I have found some workarounds.

Here is the issue I was getting at:

Microsoft Account is Necessary for Windows 11 Set-up
Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft account to finish device setup on the first usage,
Now to the workarounds.

How To Install Windows 11 Without Microsoft Account
Steps to install Windows 11 Home without a Microsoft account

Step 1: Once you install Windows 11, your PC restarts and you arrive at the Windows Out of Box Experience (OOBE).

Step 2: Follow the steps until you get to the “Add your account” screen which prompts you to sign in to your Microsoft account or create one if you don’t have one.

Step 3: Now you need to enter an email address that does not exist, for example, d@d.com, then click Next.

Step 4: Type any password, for example, 1, then click Connect.

Step 5: The “Sorry, an error has occurred” error message will appear; Click on Next.

Step 6: Choose don’t sign with a Microsoft account and click Next.

Step 7: You can now create a local user account and continue with Windows 11 setup.

That’s it; You have installed Windows 11 OS with a local user account and without a Microsoft account.


Alternative Method: Disable Internet Connection

You need to disable your internet connection at the time of installation.

Once you see “Let’s Connect You To A Network” during installation, enter “Shift” and “F10” on the keyboard at the same time.

It will bring up the Command Prompt where you have to execute the following command line:

taskkill /F /IM oobenetworkconnectionflow.exe

Now you will be able to enter local account information.
A Reddit user makes the second method a little clearer:
It's not required with a new setup, at least. I bypassed it on Home without even knowing about the "restriction". You need to have your internet cable connected or you can't go to the next step when it checks for a connection. If you keep the cable on when it goes to the account part, it will try to force an online account but just take it off and it will switch to creating a local one.
The trick seems to be in the timing of disconnecting the cable.

Some of the language in these articles is confusing because they sometimes talk of "installation" and sometimes talk of "set-up". It's been years since I've actually purchased a PC and I don't remember what the screen showed when I first turned the computer on. But I certainly wasn't "installing" Windows. I supposed I was "setting it up" but I don't even remember that!
+1 on videos, I normal prefer reading as well...

But in this case, I'd recommend taking a look, as it's a much simpler option.

Basically (watch the video to confirm, trying to do this from memory as I might not have the steps perfectly), when you are prompted to login with your Microsoft account, click on "sign in options", select "Offline Account" (aka local account), it will tell you why you should use a Microsoft account and if you click next you'll be back to signing in with that account, but if you click "limited experience" (or something similar) it will continue by promoting you for a local username and password.

ETA: For clarity, I absolutely recommend using a Microsoft account. I think doing so has significant advantages. But you still have the option to ignore the benefits and use a local account.
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Mel Lindauer
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Mel Lindauer »

Thanks to everyone who responded to my request, asking what exciting benefits early adapters found in Windows 11. And, as I had planned, most recommended staying with Windows 10 as long as it's supported, which I had planned to do.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

I'll also add the most "annoying" change in Windows 11 for me was moving the "start" button towards the center of the screen.

I absolutely hate that change! My muscle memory knows to go to the bottom left corner to click on "start"... :annoyed

Luckily, this is an easy setting change to move back to the left where it's "supposed" to be. :twisted:

I forget the exact setting, I can look it up if it helps... But IIRC right-click on the task bar and select settings (or options, which ever it was called), and I thought it was one of those, but it was pretty obvious to me the right one, as I had it "fixed" within 30 seconds of logging into Windows 11.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by bertilak »

SnowBog wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:55 pm I'll also add the most "annoying" change in Windows 11 for me was moving the "start" button towards the center of the screen.

I absolutely hate that change! My muscle memory knows to go to the bottom left corner to click on "start"... :annoyed

Luckily, this is an easy setting change to move back to the left where it's "supposed" to be. :twisted:

I forget the exact setting, I can look it up if it helps... But IIRC right-click on the task bar and select settings (or options, which ever it was called), and I thought it was one of those, but it was pretty obvious to me the right one, as I had it "fixed" within 30 seconds of logging into Windows 11.
Yeah, I put that back to the way it should be as well.

- Right-click the taskbar and select taskbar settings.
- Select taskbar behaviors.
- Select taskbar alignment and set it to "left."

A stressful 30 seconds!

This is also a quick way to get to the main "settings" menu, but I pinned the settings app to the taskbar anyway.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by bertilak »

bertilak wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:27 pm Just upgraded Win 10 to Win 11 this AM.

All went well EXCEPT screen snipping tool does not work. I can load the app, which tells me to press Windows-Shift-S (just as I used to) but absolutely nothing happens when I do that. I didn't have to load any app in the past - I think it was built in to Win 10. I left a support request but no response yet. Did a Google search and I am not the only one. All suggestions to fix seem too complex. Many responses say they didn't work anyway.

Haven't been at it long enough to see if there are other problems, but it doesn't appear so. All my applications work OK.
Correction: The tool is called Snip and Sketch and was introduced late into Win 10 to replace Snipping Tool, So it is actually the new "Snip and Sketch" that is not working and the original Snipping Tool is not even installed on Win 11.

If you have installed Win 11 over Win 10, the original snipping tool.exe is at the following location: "C:\Windows.old\Windows\System32\SnippingTool.exe".

I put a link to this on my desktop as a temporary workaround. It works. I was happy with that on Win 10 until it got replaced so am still happy with it.

UPDATE: The above does not work well for me.

I can capture the "snip" but for some reason cannot save it to a file. Arrgh!

There is a free utility called PicPick that DOES work. Google for it.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

bertilak wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:32 pm
bertilak wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:27 pm Just upgraded Win 10 to Win 11 this AM.

All went well EXCEPT screen snipping tool does not work. I can load the app, which tells me to press Windows-Shift-S (just as I used to) but absolutely nothing happens when I do that. I didn't have to load any app in the past - I think it was built in to Win 10. I left a support request but no response yet. Did a Google search and I am not the only one. All suggestions to fix seem too complex. Many responses say they didn't work anyway.

Haven't been at it long enough to see if there are other problems, but it doesn't appear so. All my applications work OK.
Correction: The tool is called Snip and Sketch and was introduced late into Win 10 to replace Snipping Tool, So it is actually the new "Snip and Sketch" that is not working and the original Snipping Tool is not even installed on Win 11.

If you have installed Win 11 over Win 10, the original snipping tool.exe is at the following location: "C:\Windows.old\Windows\System32\SnippingTool.exe".

I put a link to this on my desktop as a temporary workaround. It works. I was happy with that on Win 10 until it got replaced so am still happy with it.

UPDATE: The above does not work well for me.

I can capture the "snip" but for some reason cannot save it to a file. Arrgh!

There is a free utility called PicPick that DOES work. Google for it.
Someone dropped the link up thread, but it appears the issue with the snip tool is related to a certificate that expired on 10/31/21. :oops:

My working theory is if you installed Win 11 prior (like I did), it works fine.

But presumably for anyone upgrading now... Well, it is a new OS... As many have said, it may have some growing pains yet. Let us early adopters help get them sorted...

Looked like the Microsoft link (up thread) was updated earlier today. No published "fix" yet, but acknowledges the issue and they are supposed to update the thread as more info available.

They also mentioned just using Print Screen (I'd add and/or Alt-printscreen) as a "work around" FWIW.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:45 am I know we have lots of techies here, so I'd like to know your thoughts on what one would supposedly gain by updating to Windows 11. I'm perfectly happy with 10, so would it be wise to wait while all the bugs get exposed and corrected?

What excites you about 11? Appreciate your thought.
Actually, I'll add one more... Although this isn't really something that you "see"...

From what I've read, and assuming you have the required hardware (TPM or equivalent built into chip), I do believe Windows 11 is (or soon will be) "more secure" than Windows 10.

For now, that's probably subjective, as I don't think any formal assessments have been done, and Windows 11 hasn't been in the wild long enough to quantify that. After 6 - 12 months and/or independent assessments have been done, I'll feel more justified in my view.

But the underlying architecture and design is much more secure, so I think the long term benefits are positive.

Having said that, it doesn't mean Windows 10 is "unsecure", properly configured and used, it can be very secure for most users/situations.

Some of the main changes I've seen (or I guess haven't "seen") are the underlying architecture/design of leveraging hardware protection, virtualization, isolation, etc. more to minimize risks of attack.

I think that's a great benefit, and something you can't really change in an existing OS (hence the need to upgrade). But it's something that's happening behind the scenes - not some shiny new widget you "see".
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Re: Windows 11

Post by roamingzebra »

SnowBog wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:24 am +1 on videos, I normal prefer reading as well...

But in this case, I'd recommend taking a look, as it's a much simpler option.

Basically (watch the video to confirm, trying to do this from memory as I might not have the steps perfectly), when you are prompted to login with your Microsoft account, click on "sign in options", select "Offline Account" (aka local account), it will tell you why you should use a Microsoft account and if you click next you'll be back to signing in with that account, but if you click "limited experience" (or something similar) it will continue by promoting you for a local username and password.
Thanks, that was a good video. It had me laughing over "limited experience" though. I'd call it "classic experience". ;)
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

roamingzebra wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:55 pm Thanks, that was a good video. It had me laughing over "limited experience" though. I'd call it "classic experience". ;)
You say "potato"...
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Re: Windows 11

Post by madbrain »

roamingzebra wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:55 pm
SnowBog wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:24 am +1 on videos, I normal prefer reading as well...

But in this case, I'd recommend taking a look, as it's a much simpler option.

Basically (watch the video to confirm, trying to do this from memory as I might not have the steps perfectly), when you are prompted to login with your Microsoft account, click on "sign in options", select "Offline Account" (aka local account), it will tell you why you should use a Microsoft account and if you click next you'll be back to signing in with that account, but if you click "limited experience" (or something similar) it will continue by promoting you for a local username and password.
Thanks, that was a good video. It had me laughing over "limited experience" though. I'd call it "classic experience". ;)
I believe a much simpler option exists. Unplug your Ethernet cable from the network, prior to installation, if your machine is wired. You shouldn't get prompted. If you are on Wifi, don't login to the Wifi. This should work for a fresh install. I believe it did on Windows 10, at least.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Bagels »

tortoise84 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:11 am
Bagels wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:00 am If I bought a laptop that just had Linux installed, would it be difficult to add Windows later for dual boot? (I have only put Linux on Windows machines in the past).
Windows 11 requires Secure Boot and will also overwrite your Linux bootloader. You'll have to do some work to get your Linux bootloader back, and I'm not sure if yours is compatible with Secure Boot or if you can simply disable Secure Boot after installing Win11, but I believe it's still possible.
Thank you, Tortoise. I think if I really want to try Windows 11 I should probably just have a dedicated Windows laptop.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Barkingsparrow »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:56 am Thanks to everyone who responded to my request, asking what exciting benefits early adapters found in Windows 11. And, as I had planned, most recommended staying with Windows 10 as long as it's supported, which I had planned to do.
That's what I plan to do. And instead of upgrading my current PC, I'll just buy a new one with native Windows 11 and coming with the latest CPU/graphics card. That's still 3 or 4 years out.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by 02nz »

howard71 wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:13 pm The only good thing I have to say about Windows 11 is that reverting back to Windows 10 was surprisingly easy.
It's easy, but keep in mind you only have 10 days after installing 11 to go back to 10.
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Youngblood
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Youngblood »

lazydavid wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:03 am
Raraculus wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:01 pm Just found out that my Surface Pro 3 (Intel i3, 4th Generation chip) was not eligible for the Windows 11 upgrade. So much for MS support of their actual hardware. :oops:
This is a 7.5 year old machine. It will be 11.5 years old when it stops receiving updates (because Windows 10 support ends). That's a pretty good run.
Mine is a Surface Pro 4 and it is also not hardware supported. I was also disappointed and decided to purchase a M1 Mac Mini. So pleased with this purchase that I have decided to replace my two remaining Windows PCs to Macs when they die or are no longer supported with Windows 10 security updates. Desktop PC is nearly nine years old (this one I didn't expect to be Win 11 compatible and it wasn't).

As an aside, I migrated to Quicken for Mac and am pleased with this change also.
"I made my money by selling too soon." | Bernard M. Baruch
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Itster »

bertilak wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:32 pm Correction: The tool is called Snip and Sketch and was introduced late into Win 10 to replace Snipping Tool, So it is actually the new "Snip and Sketch" that is not working and the original Snipping Tool is not even installed on Win 11.
You're right that the tool is the new "Snip and Sketch" -- nevertheless, the new one is now called the Snipping Tool (at least on my machine). No big deal, but just for clarification.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by lazydavid »

Youngblood wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:52 am Mine is a Surface Pro 4 and it is also not hardware supported. I was also disappointed and decided to purchase a M1 Mac Mini. So pleased with this purchase that I have decided to replace my two remaining Windows PCs to Macs when they die or are no longer supported with Windows 10 security updates. Desktop PC is nearly nine years old (this one I didn't expect to be Win 11 compatible and it wasn't).
I have two SP4s myself (one is dead due to a swollen battery). Those are 6-year old machines that will be supported until their 10th birthday. Again a fairly long lifetime. About the same or slightly longer than you'll get on the Mac platform, as Apple considers their hardware to be "Vintage" when it is 5 years old, and "Obsolete" at age 7. Devices generally stop being supported by the latest version of MacOS during the "Vintage" period, and stop getting security updates not too long after becoming "Obsolete". For example, a 2014 Macbook Pro or Air cannot run MacOS 12 Monterey, and will continue to get security updates on Big Sur through November of 2023. Eerily similar to what you're seeing with your SP4.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by jebmke »

Barkingsparrow wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:56 am
Mel Lindauer wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:56 am Thanks to everyone who responded to my request, asking what exciting benefits early adapters found in Windows 11. And, as I had planned, most recommended staying with Windows 10 as long as it's supported, which I had planned to do.
That's what I plan to do. And instead of upgrading my current PC, I'll just buy a new one with native Windows 11 and coming with the latest CPU/graphics card. That's still 3 or 4 years out.
That is my plan as well; I don't even install new W10 builds until they season for 6-9 months. I just installed 21H1 late last month.

Same with iOS updates on my iPad. Unless their is a security alert that affects what I do, I let those season a bit.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Tubes »

Hey, my 3 computers (2 desktop, 1 laptop) are not eligible for Win 11, so I'll ride these into their sunset. I'm not in any hurry although one of them is really old and could probably use replacement sooner than later. So this discussion here has me thinking about giving a Mac Mini a spin. Why not? I would like to be bi-lingual. I can do this while Win 11 matures. Heck, maybe I'll fully convert and go down the Apple rabbit hole. :shock:

Honest question to the Mac people who have popped up here. Can I easily:
- Run Office 365?
- Run Quicken?

I have "subscriptions" to both. It should be a slam dunk, right? Anyone do this?
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Re: Windows 11

Post by dukeblue219 »

I like Windows 11 as a less ugly version of Windows 10. Every Windows since 7 has a rock solid kernel anyway, visual and usability differences aside.

As for the start button placement, I don't ever click it anyway. I use the Windows key on the keyboard and just start typing whatever I want. Manually clicking the Start Button and browsing for the application you need is certainly the slow way to do it... Not that that's necessarily wrong...
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Re: Windows 11

Post by madbrain »

dukeblue219 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:03 pm I like Windows 11 as a less ugly version of Windows 10. Every Windows since 7 has a rock solid kernel anyway, visual and usability differences aside.

As for the start button placement, I don't ever click it anyway. I use the Windows key on the keyboard and just start typing whatever I want. Manually clicking the Start Button and browsing for the application you need is certainly the slow way to do it... Not that that's necessarily wrong...
It definitely looks prettier. I find it somewhat less functional. You can't click into an empty part of the taskbar to start task manager anymore. A workaround is to pin task manager to the taskbar. It takes unnecessary space. But I suppose if your taskbar is full, as mine often is, that is arguably better.

Having icons centered on the taskbar rather than left-justified is annoying. When you add things to the task bar, existing programs you are used to starting from a certain location move. Looks like you can change it back to the left.

So, seems like there are workarounds for many odd behaviors.
https://www.theverge.com/22684671/windo ... enu-how-to

While playing around with Win11 in a VM, I found many other odd things, functionality that used to be easily accessible in Windows 10 and earlier, but no longer is, and needed workarounds such as these to access. I can't remember all of them. I think it had to do with context menus. The context menus in Windows 11 are prettier, and much shorter. As a result, a lot options are missing. You can get it back, and bring back the full old-style context menu - I don't recall how, right now. The funny thing is the old-style menu has a completely different GUI look, Windows 10 style. It doesn't look right at all. MS would have done much better to convert everything to do the new GUI style, and given options to customize things, ie. an option to select either the abbreviated context menu, or the longer context menu for power users. But this seems to be the MS way of doing things. They introduce new pretty GUIs, don't migrate all the settings, and leave the old UI alone. This is why about 75% of the useful OS settings are still in control panel, and the other 25% are in the Settings metro UI, post-Windows 7. That's still the case in Windows 11.

So, it's not that the functionality was removed altogether, at least, not that I ran into in the brief time I tried Windows 11. It just got hidden by default, and the OS became harder to use overall. If you are a power user like me, you will probably not enjoy the experience with Windows 11.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Gryphon »

Tubes wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:50 pm Honest question to the Mac people who have popped up here. Can I easily:
- Run Office 365?
- Run Quicken?

I have "subscriptions" to both. It should be a slam dunk, right? Anyone do this?
Your Quicken subscription covers both Mac & Windows. However, the Mac version does not have all the features that the Windows version does. There's no Home & Business version on the Mac, no retirement planner, no debt reduction planner, no portfolio X-ray tool. There's probably more, those are just the ones I've heard about. It works well enough for me, but some Mac users prefer the Windows version to get the extra features missing on the Mac.

Moving your Quicken data from Windows to the Mac is pretty straightforward. I haven't tried going the other way but I've heard it's much more difficult to migrate Quicken data from Mac to Windows.
Last edited by Gryphon on Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Electron »

I plan to stay with Windows 10 for the time being. There is also a lot of commentary in the Windows Eleven Forum.

Initially I thought I would have to purchase a TPM 2.0 module for my motherboard for the Windows 11 compatibility.

However, TPM 2.0 is now active on my i5-9400 computer after enabling PTT in the BIOS. PTT is the Intel firmware implementation of the Trusted Platform Module. The Windows PC Health Check utility indicates that my system now meets Windows 11 requirements.

The TPM 2.0 modules are in short supply right now and prices have increased.
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Youngblood
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Youngblood »

Tubes wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:50 pm Hey, my 3 computers (2 desktop, 1 laptop) are not eligible for Win 11, so I'll ride these into their sunset. I'm not in any hurry although one of them is really old and could probably use replacement sooner than later. So this discussion here has me thinking about giving a Mac Mini a spin. Why not? I would like to be bi-lingual. I can do this while Win 11 matures. Heck, maybe I'll fully convert and go down the Apple rabbit hole. :shock:

Honest question to the Mac people who have popped up here. Can I easily:
- Run Office 365?
- Run Quicken?

I have "subscriptions" to both. It should be a slam dunk, right? Anyone do this?
Since you have a subscription to Quicken you can download and use versions of both. For a while I was doing this but got tired of monitoring both and now just use the Mac version. For me the Mac version is faster and has been able to download all transactions for all of my banks, investment accounts and credit cards. With Apple card you have to download transactions through the Wallet app and upload to Quicken. Windows Quicken is better at asset allocation than the Mac version but the Mac version is getting better. Quicken for Mac will designate funds as multi asset but then keeps that as an asset class which for me is useless. Once every six months or so I check everything and do the allocation myself. I did that also with Quicken for Windows even though I probably didn't need to.

Since it won't cost you anything but time, why not use them both for a while and then decide.

I did go down the rabbit hole because I was slowly purchasing more Apple hardware and was impressed by the Apple ecosystem. Last month I convinced my son-in-law to be the "organizer" of our family shared Apple One account. That allows six people to have: Apple music, Apple TV, iCloud + (2 TB of data), Apple News, Fitness + (includes meditation), and Apple Arcade. Total cost is $30/6=$5.00 a month.

So, the loss of the ability to update to Windows 11 both on the Surface Pro 4 and our HP desktop and the great nearly decade long iPad use and three year experience with an iPhone...

Good luck.
"I made my money by selling too soon." | Bernard M. Baruch
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Tubes
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Tubes »

Gryphon wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:07 pm
Tubes wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:50 pm Honest question to the Mac people who have popped up here. Can I easily:
- Run Office 365?
- Run Quicken?

I have "subscriptions" to both. It should be a slam dunk, right? Anyone do this?
Your Quicken subscription covers both Mac & Windows. However, the Mac version does not have all the features that the Windows version does. There's no Home & Business version on the Mac, no retirement planner, no debt reduction planner, no portfolio X-ray tool. There's probably more, those are just the ones I've heard about. It works well enough for me, but some Mac users prefer the Windows version to get the extra features missing on the Mac.

Moving your Quicken data from Windows to the Mac is pretty straightforward. I haven't tried going the other way but I've heard it's much more difficult to migrate Quicken data from Mac to Windows.
Thanks! Appreciate the informative answer. I'll have to think about this. I don't typically use those features. The conversion of the data file gives me more pause.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by tortoise84 »

madbrain wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:29 pm You can't click into an empty part of the taskbar to start task manager anymore. A workaround is to pin task manager to the taskbar. It takes unnecessary space. But I suppose if your taskbar is full, as mine often is, that is arguably better.
You can right click the Start button and it's there along with a few other power user functions. It used to be available in both places but I suppose they wanted to consolidate things. There's also the keyboard shortcut Ctrl + Shift + Esc.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by madbrain »

tortoise84 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:20 pm You can right click the Start button and it's there along with a few other power user functions. It used to be available in both places but I suppose they wanted to consolidate things.
Thanks. I didn't know it was in the start menu too. I guess it's the same number of clicks, so it's OK.
There's also the keyboard shortcut Ctrl + Shift + Esc.
I'm aware of the keyboard shortcut, but that's one more thing to fill my head with, and using the keyboard for this is less convenient.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

tortoise84 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:20 pm
madbrain wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:29 pm You can't click into an empty part of the taskbar to start task manager anymore. A workaround is to pin task manager to the taskbar. It takes unnecessary space. But I suppose if your taskbar is full, as mine often is, that is arguably better.
You can right click the Start button and it's there along with a few other power user functions. It used to be available in both places but I suppose they wanted to consolidate things. There's also the keyboard shortcut Ctrl + Shift + Esc.
:beer

One of the main reasons I was annoyed when they moved the start button! Lots of useful stuff there, not just the start menu.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by madbrain »

So, I have been working on a new PC build and testing Windows 11 on it bare metal. It's on a KVM switch, and I'm using the monitor on the left of my desk, out of 3 monitors. It would have actually been nice to be able to align the taskbar to the right, instead of center or left. Alas, that's not available. I'll probably have to wait until Windows 12 for that.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by tortoise84 »

The bug with the Snipping Tool has been fixed with the KB5008295 update:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/top ... b6f02a8935
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Re: Windows 11

Post by KRP »

Youngblood wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:22 pm
Tubes wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:50 pm Hey, my 3 computers (2 desktop, 1 laptop) are not eligible for Win 11, so I'll ride these into their sunset. I'm not in any hurry although one of them is really old and could probably use replacement sooner than later. So this discussion here has me thinking about giving a Mac Mini a spin. Why not? I would like to be bi-lingual. I can do this while Win 11 matures. Heck, maybe I'll fully convert and go down the Apple rabbit hole. :shock:

Honest question to the Mac people who have popped up here. Can I easily:
- Run Office 365?
- Run Quicken?

I have "subscriptions" to both. It should be a slam dunk, right? Anyone do this?
Since you have a subscription to Quicken you can download and use versions of both. For a while I was doing this but got tired of monitoring both and now just use the Mac version. For me the Mac version is faster and has been able to download all transactions for all of my banks, investment accounts and credit cards. With Apple card you have to download transactions through the Wallet app and upload to Quicken. Windows Quicken is better at asset allocation than the Mac version but the Mac version is getting better. Quicken for Mac will designate funds as multi asset but then keeps that as an asset class which for me is useless. Once every six months or so I check everything and do the allocation myself. I did that also with Quicken for Windows even though I probably didn't need to.

Since it won't cost you anything but time, why not use them both for a while and then decide.

I did go down the rabbit hole because I was slowly purchasing more Apple hardware and was impressed by the Apple ecosystem. Last month I convinced my son-in-law to be the "organizer" of our family shared Apple One account. That allows six people to have: Apple music, Apple TV, iCloud + (2 TB of data), Apple News, Fitness + (includes meditation), and Apple Arcade. Total cost is $30/6=$5.00 a month.

So, the loss of the ability to update to Windows 11 both on the Surface Pro 4 and our HP desktop and the great nearly decade long iPad use and three year experience with an iPhone...

Good luck.
I've been making the same transition for a while now. MS Home Office for MacOS works fine. MacOS Quicken has no employer stock "vesting" wizards, but I already same-day-sell & diversify immediately and I've never found vest tracking actually useful for planning in the past, so I've decided it's no loss and maybe a gain in free time. I haven't detected any other deal killers going Windows -> MacOS Quicken, and I've been pleasantly surprised by bits and pieces after getting used to the design differences between them. Running them side-by-side for some months is definitely recommended. I relied on the Windows side to manage finances while playing around with Windows Quicken file->MacOS Quicken importing (non-cloud option) and played around with Categorization before abandoning the import a couple times (so this is a bit of a learning curve worth playing with on the side, but I'm actually happy with the design differences after getting familiar), and also adjusted the MacOS Displayed Columns away from the defaults a bit, then gradually started to favor using MacOS Quicken over time. Quicken was the last hurdle to exiting the Windows realm for me, and I'm now satisfied the transition will be fine. I'll probably pull the plug on the Windows Quicken machine soon, since I'm beginning to neglect turning it on for extended periods such that the Windows Quicken state is no longer keeping up fully with the MacOS Quicken state...

[Edit to add: one type of employer stock transaction imported oddly on MacOS Quicken, but could be fixed by adjusting the Total and the Fees fields by adding the Transaction fee to both sides....shrug]

Happy Trails :)
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Re: Windows 11

Post by 02nz »

Raraculus wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:01 pm Just found out that my Surface Pro 3 (Intel i3, 4th Generation chip) was not eligible for the Windows 11 upgrade. So much for MS support of their actual hardware. :oops:
The i3 Surface Pro only had 4 GB RAM (non-upgradable), and I wouldn't recommend an upgrade to Windows 11 even if it were technically supported. (It is possible to install regardless, but again, not advisable.)
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

02nz wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:54 pm
Raraculus wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:01 pm Just found out that my Surface Pro 3 (Intel i3, 4th Generation chip) was not eligible for the Windows 11 upgrade. So much for MS support of their actual hardware. :oops:
The i3 Surface Pro only had 4 GB RAM (non-upgradable), and I wouldn't recommend an upgrade to Windows 11 even if it were technically supported. (It is possible to install regardless, but again, not advisable.)
Hmm... Pretty sure there was an 8 GB option...

But other than that, I'd agree...
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Re: Windows 11

Post by dukeblue219 »

Surface Pro 3 was released in mid 2014. I'm not surprised it won't officially receive Windows 11, but Windows 10 still has support for years to come.
02nz
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Re: Windows 11

Post by 02nz »

SnowBog wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:20 pm
02nz wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:54 pm
Raraculus wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:01 pm Just found out that my Surface Pro 3 (Intel i3, 4th Generation chip) was not eligible for the Windows 11 upgrade. So much for MS support of their actual hardware. :oops:
The i3 Surface Pro only had 4 GB RAM (non-upgradable), and I wouldn't recommend an upgrade to Windows 11 even if it were technically supported. (It is possible to install regardless, but again, not advisable.)
Hmm... Pretty sure there was an 8 GB option...

But other than that, I'd agree...
AFAIK every model of the Surface Pro line with a Core i3 also had only 4GB of RAM.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by leland »

I use my taskbar on the right side of the screen (vertical taskbar). Somehow that got deprecated in Win11 (along with anything except using it at the bottom). That plus other taskbar changes = no go for me. Also only one of my devices officially supports Win11 so there's that. I'll switch when the taskbar gets features again.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

I'm generally an early adopter (and seeker) of new software but Microsoft's AI determined that although my desktop PC met the requirements, they didn't think I was ready for Windows 11.

My CPU is a Ryzen 5600X, which might be one reason for the 'slow' offering as Microsoft and AMD had some debugging and bug fixing to address a couple of major performance degradation issues. I had made sure to deploy updated AMD Chipset Drivers from X570 Drivers & Support | AMD, which addressed one of the issues.

That finally changed Friday and Windows 11 was offered to me when I actively sought it out (via Windows Update). I did a complete system backup and then the update proceed. It went smoothly and took about a half hour (on a very fast internet connection).

My desktop is connected to a Dell 49" widescreen monitor, so the centred taskbar is actually helpful to me.

I did have to uninstall a few 'bloatware' apps (TikTok, Instagram, Facebook) and perform some minor reconfiguration, settings changes.

Otherwise, so far so good. For the most part most of the changes I've noticed have been cosmetic rather than new features/functionality, but I haven't done much exploring, yet.

For those interested, Microsoft Windows 11 Review | PCMag provides a pretty decent review of Windows 11 and what interface changes you should expect. Personally I like the new modern look and more consistency within the user interface.

Bottom line for most, Windows 10 21H1 (or 21H2) was perfectly good and there wasn't anything specific driving me to upgrade to Windows 11 other than the geeky desire to be running the latest and greatest software.
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