Windows 11 [Upgrade from Win 10 to Win 11?]

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SnowBog
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

cheese_breath wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:02 pm
SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:49 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:41 pm https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09 ... ported-pcs

My laptop might not be entitled to receive updates if I force-upgrade to 11, I guess I'm staying on 10 until its support expires on October 14th, 2025.
A reasonable decision. 4 more years is still a long life for technology these days! Windows 10 is a solid option so long as it's still being supported and updated by Microsoft.

For myself, I'll admit I went the other way. I decided long ago that with the pace of change in technology, there was more "value" at the cheaper purchase points, and by spending less by not buying the "top of the line" option I could replace my hardware quicker...
And I'm just the opposite. I buy more than I need, and only replace it about every eight years. I ran my W-7 system until just before support was dropped, and bought a new W-10 system then (about 2 1/2 years ago). Then I learned on Bogleheads I could still get the W-10 upgrade on my old system free. So now I have two W-10 systems, and I guess I'll keep them both on W-10 until its support is dropped. Then I'll dump the old one and upgrade the newer one to 11. From what I read about W-11 requirements, I think it satisfies them all.
When I was still building/running desktops, that's what I did to...

But I made the change when I switched to laptops. Moore's law combined with advancements towards making things thinner, lighter, and more power efficient (plus battery's that still don't have great longevity), makes me think a 3+ year old laptop is ancient. And being portable, I figure an "accident" is inevitable...

And when I priced it out at the time, for what I would have spent "in my old days", I could buy a lower end device and replace it 2-3 times on average for less. So I figure I save money, have probably the same performance (lower initially but higher at refresh) averaged over the previous lifetime, and benefit from having "newer" devices more regularly.

But to each their own! :beer
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cheese_breath
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Re: Windows 11

Post by cheese_breath »

SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:17 pm
cheese_breath wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:02 pm
SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:49 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:41 pm https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09 ... ported-pcs

My laptop might not be entitled to receive updates if I force-upgrade to 11, I guess I'm staying on 10 until its support expires on October 14th, 2025.
A reasonable decision. 4 more years is still a long life for technology these days! Windows 10 is a solid option so long as it's still being supported and updated by Microsoft.

For myself, I'll admit I went the other way. I decided long ago that with the pace of change in technology, there was more "value" at the cheaper purchase points, and by spending less by not buying the "top of the line" option I could replace my hardware quicker...
And I'm just the opposite. I buy more than I need, and only replace it about every eight years. I ran my W-7 system until just before support was dropped, and bought a new W-10 system then (about 2 1/2 years ago). Then I learned on Bogleheads I could still get the W-10 upgrade on my old system free. So now I have two W-10 systems, and I guess I'll keep them both on W-10 until its support is dropped. Then I'll dump the old one and upgrade the newer one to 11. From what I read about W-11 requirements, I think it satisfies them all.
When I was still building/running desktops, that's what I did to...

But I made the change when I switched to laptops. Moore's law combined with advancements towards making things thinner, lighter, and more power efficient (plus battery's that still don't have great longevity), makes me think a 3+ year old laptop is ancient. And being portable, I figure an "accident" is inevitable...

And when I priced it out at the time, for what I would have spent "in my old days", I could buy a lower end device and replace it 2-3 times on average for less. So I figure I save money, have probably the same performance (lower initially but higher at refresh) averaged over the previous lifetime, and benefit from having "newer" devices more regularly.

But to each their own! :beer
I've use a Chromebook for my laptop.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
Marseille07
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Marseille07 »

SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:49 pm A reasonable decision. 4 more years is still a long life for technology these days! Windows 10 is a solid option so long as it's still being supported and updated by Microsoft.

For myself, I'll admit I went the other way. I decided long ago that with the pace of change in technology, there was more "value" at the cheaper purchase points, and by spending less by not buying the "top of the line" option I could replace my hardware quicker.

So I just pre-ordered a Surface Go 3 and I had replaced an older device earlier this year with a Surface Laptop Go. I buy the low- to mid-range devices (aka i3 vs. i5 or i7), but buy quality devices (hence Surface). So now I'm set for Windows 11! And if I need (or want) to replace them again in 3+ years, that's perfectly fine as I'll end up with a newer better device for probably less money than had I originally bought a top-of-the-range i7 beast.

But I'm not a PC gamer, and don't need extra horsepower...
Yeah, I'm more than happy to try Windows 11 as I'm sure it runs on my 2017 laptop just fine. It's not new but it's not ancient either, but their "entitlement" talk gave me pause.

I tech refresh my PC every 6 years, but I don't have anything set for a laptop. I primarily use PC so there's no urgency to upgrade the laptop.
SnowBog
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

I just can't bring myself to use desktops again...

Maybe its because I sit at my desk (WFH since pre-pandemic at least) the vast majority of the day for my job (when I'm not traveling :annoyed). But when my "work" is done - I don't want to feel tied to a desk anymore...

So all our personal devices are laptops/tablets - and I honestly can't see a reason to go back...

But I was doing similar with my last few desktop builds - buying low-mid range parts and upgrading more frequently (back then I was building/upgrading my desktop - not buying pre-built ones).
Marseille07
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Marseille07 »

SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:45 pm I just can't bring myself to use desktops again...

Maybe its because I sit at my desk (WFH since pre-pandemic at least) the vast majority of the day for my job (when I'm not traveling :annoyed). But when my "work" is done - I don't want to feel tied to a desk anymore...

So all our personal devices are laptops/tablets - and I honestly can't see a reason to go back...

But I was doing similar with my last few desktop builds - buying low-mid range parts and upgrading more frequently (back then I was building/upgrading my desktop - not buying pre-built ones).
I have lots of data, including a bunch of scanned books / documents. I could external-USB HDDs and connect to a laptop, but dangling cables & constantly having to connect / disconnect to move around get old very quickly.

Having multiple HDDs in a desktop and automating the sync job is the simplest solution I could find.
NewishBog
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Re: Windows 11

Post by NewishBog »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:35 pm
SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:49 pm A reasonable decision. 4 more years is still a long life for technology these days! Windows 10 is a solid option so long as it's still being supported and updated by Microsoft.

For myself, I'll admit I went the other way. I decided long ago that with the pace of change in technology, there was more "value" at the cheaper purchase points, and by spending less by not buying the "top of the line" option I could replace my hardware quicker.

So I just pre-ordered a Surface Go 3 and I had replaced an older device earlier this year with a Surface Laptop Go. I buy the low- to mid-range devices (aka i3 vs. i5 or i7), but buy quality devices (hence Surface). So now I'm set for Windows 11! And if I need (or want) to replace them again in 3+ years, that's perfectly fine as I'll end up with a newer better device for probably less money than had I originally bought a top-of-the-range i7 beast.

But I'm not a PC gamer, and don't need extra horsepower...
Yeah, I'm more than happy to try Windows 11 as I'm sure it runs on my 2017 laptop just fine. It's not new but it's not ancient either, but their "entitlement" talk gave me pause.

I tech refresh my PC every 6 years, but I don't have anything set for a laptop. I primarily use PC so there's no urgency to upgrade the laptop.
I ran the upgrade checker yesterday. My 2018 i5-7xxx laptop cannot upgrade. :(
Marseille07
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Marseille07 »

NewishBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:31 pm I ran the upgrade checker yesterday. My 2018 i5-7xxx laptop cannot upgrade. :(
I think we actually would be able to force it; however, we might not be entitled to receive updates. It's a no-go for me, I'll just keep using Windows 10 till the support ends.
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crinkles2
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Re: Windows 11

Post by crinkles2 »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:54 pm
SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:45 pm I just can't bring myself to use desktops again...

Maybe its because I sit at my desk (WFH since pre-pandemic at least) the vast majority of the day for my job (when I'm not traveling :annoyed). But when my "work" is done - I don't want to feel tied to a desk anymore...

So all our personal devices are laptops/tablets - and I honestly can't see a reason to go back...

But I was doing similar with my last few desktop builds - buying low-mid range parts and upgrading more frequently (back then I was building/upgrading my desktop - not buying pre-built ones).
I have lots of data, including a bunch of scanned books / documents. I could external-USB HDDs and connect to a laptop, but dangling cables & constantly having to connect / disconnect to move around get old very quickly.

Having multiple HDDs in a desktop and automating the sync job is the simplest solution I could find.
Is there the option of using OneDrive for your files? You don't necessarily have to have everything on all computers. Once uploaded, you can selectively sync to whatever device. I for one am truly glad the old days of backups are done.
Marseille07
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Marseille07 »

crinkles2 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:09 pm Is there the option of using OneDrive for your files? You don't necessarily have to have everything on all computers. Once uploaded, you can selectively sync to whatever device. I for one am truly glad the old days of backups are done.
Yeah, based on the size, Microsoft 365 Family $99.99 / year plan would have enough space for my needs. Assuming cloud data is reliable (i.e. no data loss) then this would be a viable plan for sure.

My backups are automated, I have multiple HDDs in a desktop and I just have a scheduled job doing exact mirroring once a day.
SnowBog
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:19 pm
crinkles2 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:09 pm Is there the option of using OneDrive for your files? You don't necessarily have to have everything on all computers. Once uploaded, you can selectively sync to whatever device. I for one am truly glad the old days of backups are done.
Yeah, based on the size, Microsoft 365 Family $99.99 / year plan would have enough space for my needs. Assuming cloud data is reliable (i.e. no data loss) then this would be a viable plan for sure.

My backups are automated, I have multiple HDDs in a desktop and I just have a scheduled job doing exact mirroring once a day.
That's what I did many, many years ago...

At the time I had a ton of locally stored files (mostly pictures, videos, financial documents, etc.). Even built out a Windows Home Server (think that's what it was called then) with a RAID config to avoid from HD failure. I had everything setup so all computers in the house were synced/backed up/etc. to a secure central storage location.

Then one day, it dawned on me that I was more likely to lose my data due to a fire (or flood) than anything "technical" on my side. So I started making a copy of my data on an [encrypted] external hard drive that I stored at a family members house. About a year later I realized I had never updated it... :oops: Had something happened, I would have lost a year of my digital life.

Initially I paid for Carbonite (not sure if they are still around) for "cloud backup." Took forever for that initial backup... :annoyed

But as (what we now call) OneDrive was available, I started keeping a copy of my critical data on the service. It was so much simpler to get access from any of my devices - including my phone. It handed "versions" of files much better than my server setup did. Plus it made it easy to "share" files/pictures/etc. with others.

At some point (likely when I switched to what's now called Microsoft 365 Family) I realized I had enough storage on OneDrive (especially if I split out "my" files separate from "spouse" separate from "child" files and put each into their own OneDrive - sharing anything needed between us). So I moved over the rest of my data, and ultimately cancelled all other "backup" methods (turned off home server, cancelled Carbonite, shutdown my home grown "sync" process).

One of the [at the time] unexpected benefits is I no longer care about my computer(s). Since there is nothing saved on them anymore (that's not saved to OneDrive), if it blows up - gets stolen - gets broken - I don't really care... (OK, I'm cheap frugal so I don't like having to replace it... :annoyed ) I simply get a new device, sign in with my Microsoft account, and all my data and the majority of my settings are automatically restored and ready for use in minutes.

And it frees me up so I don't need to be stuck at a desk with my desktop... Just saying! :beer
SnowBog
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:19 pm Yeah, based on the size, Microsoft 365 Family $99.99 / year plan would have enough space for my needs.
As a "PSA" - for anyone interested in - or currently paying for - Microsoft 365 make sure you check out to see if you are eligible for a discount through their Home Use Program. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/home-use-program

Basically, many employers have agreements in place with Microsoft that provides this discount (and sadly they rarely inform us mere workers). Believe it gives a 30% discount off the subscription. My understanding is you may be able to retain the discount even after you leave/retire from the organization (though I've yet to personally test that yet - need a few more years).
Marseille07
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Marseille07 »

SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:38 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:19 pm
crinkles2 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:09 pm Is there the option of using OneDrive for your files? You don't necessarily have to have everything on all computers. Once uploaded, you can selectively sync to whatever device. I for one am truly glad the old days of backups are done.
Yeah, based on the size, Microsoft 365 Family $99.99 / year plan would have enough space for my needs. Assuming cloud data is reliable (i.e. no data loss) then this would be a viable plan for sure.

My backups are automated, I have multiple HDDs in a desktop and I just have a scheduled job doing exact mirroring once a day.
That's what I did many, many years ago...

At the time I had a ton of locally stored files (mostly pictures, videos, financial documents, etc.). Even built out a Windows Home Server (think that's what it was called then) with a RAID config to avoid from HD failure. I had everything setup so all computers in the house were synced/backed up/etc. to a secure central storage location.

Then one day, it dawned on me that I was more likely to lose my data due to a fire (or flood) than anything "technical" on my side. So I started making a copy of my data on an [encrypted] external hard drive that I stored at a family members house. About a year later I realized I had never updated it... :oops: Had something happened, I would have lost a year of my digital life.

Initially I paid for Carbonite (not sure if they are still around) for "cloud backup." Took forever for that initial backup... :annoyed

But as (what we now call) OneDrive was available, I started keeping a copy of my critical data on the service. It was so much simpler to get access from any of my devices - including my phone. It handed "versions" of files much better than my server setup did. Plus it made it easy to "share" files/pictures/etc. with others.

At some point (likely when I switched to what's now called Microsoft 365 Family) I realized I had enough storage on OneDrive (especially if I split out "my" files separate from "spouse" separate from "child" files and put each into their own OneDrive - sharing anything needed between us). So I moved over the rest of my data, and ultimately cancelled all other "backup" methods (turned off home server, cancelled Carbonite, shutdown my home grown "sync" process).

One of the [at the time] unexpected benefits is I no longer care about my computer(s). Since there is nothing saved on them anymore (that's not saved to OneDrive), if it blows up - gets stolen - gets broken - I don't really care... (OK, I'm cheap frugal so I don't like having to replace it... :annoyed ) I simply get a new device, sign in with my Microsoft account, and all my data and the majority of my settings are automatically restored and ready for use in minutes.

And it frees me up so I don't need to be stuck at a desk with my desktop... Just saying! :beer
Yeah, with the home PC approach, there's definitely risk of fire / theft.

I haven't used it but OneDrive seems to provide rclone: https://itsfoss.com/use-onedrive-linux-rclone/ This might work similar to rsync :beer

My concern is the reliability of data though. Is there any chance they turn around and say "sorry, we lost your data"?
lazydavid
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Re: Windows 11

Post by lazydavid »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:41 pm https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09 ... ported-pcs

My laptop might not be entitled to receive updates if I force-upgrade to 11, I guess I'm staying on 10 until its support expires on October 14th, 2025.
Did you actually receive this message yourself? The very article you posted said they were unable to get this screen to appear, despite running the upgrade on several machines that should not have been compatible.
Marseille07
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Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Windows 11

Post by Marseille07 »

lazydavid wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:00 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:41 pm https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09 ... ported-pcs

My laptop might not be entitled to receive updates if I force-upgrade to 11, I guess I'm staying on 10 until its support expires on October 14th, 2025.
Did you actually receive this message yourself? The very article you posted said they were unable to get this screen to appear, despite running the upgrade on several machines that should not have been compatible.
I ran the compat checker on Windows 10 which said mine is not compatible.

The "entitlement" stuff reportedly showed up on a Windows 11 beta build; it's possible they removed it in later builds.
SnowBog
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:50 pm Yeah, with the home PC approach, there's definitely risk of fire / theft.

I haven't used it but OneDrive seems to provide rclone: https://itsfoss.com/use-onedrive-linux-rclone/ This might work similar to rsync :beer

My concern is the reliability of data though. Is there any chance they turn around and say "sorry, we lost your data"?
I think there are few absolutes in life... So I guess I'm "saying there's a chance"...

But personally, I'd put that chance at about the same as VTI taking a 100% loss in the market. Could it happen - sure... But is it likely to happen - I don't think so...

I've been using OneDrive (and its predecessors) since about the time they were created (well over 10 years). During that time, I don't recall ever losing any data...

OK - I actually did lose a file - but it was my fault... When you "delete" a file, OneDrive stores it in its version of a "recycle bin". That recycle bin is not kept indefinitely (which I didn't initially think about). So when I attempted to go and recover a file like 6 months after I deleted it, I couldn't restore it anymore. Now that I know that - its not a problem for me...
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Windows 11

Post by Marseille07 »

SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:10 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:50 pm Yeah, with the home PC approach, there's definitely risk of fire / theft.

I haven't used it but OneDrive seems to provide rclone: https://itsfoss.com/use-onedrive-linux-rclone/ This might work similar to rsync :beer

My concern is the reliability of data though. Is there any chance they turn around and say "sorry, we lost your data"?
I think there are few absolutes in life... So I guess I'm "saying there's a chance"...

But personally, I'd put that chance at about the same as VTI taking a 100% loss in the market. Could it happen - sure... But is it likely to happen - I don't think so...

I've been using OneDrive (and its predecessors) since about the time they were created (well over 10 years). During that time, I don't recall ever losing any data...

OK - I actually did lose a file - but it was my fault... When you "delete" a file, OneDrive stores it in its version of a "recycle bin". That recycle bin is not kept indefinitely (which I didn't initially think about). So when I attempted to go and recover a file like 6 months after I deleted it, I couldn't restore it anymore. Now that I know that - its not a problem for me...
I see. I'll check out the free drive and see how it works as far as rclone and what not.

I guess another concern, inherent in any online services, is that if your ID/pass is compromised then the attacker might delete the data or ransomware it. Also, some of my files contain financial information as well, not sure what to do about those.
SnowBog
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:17 pm
SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:10 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:50 pm Yeah, with the home PC approach, there's definitely risk of fire / theft.

I haven't used it but OneDrive seems to provide rclone: https://itsfoss.com/use-onedrive-linux-rclone/ This might work similar to rsync :beer

My concern is the reliability of data though. Is there any chance they turn around and say "sorry, we lost your data"?
I think there are few absolutes in life... So I guess I'm "saying there's a chance"...

But personally, I'd put that chance at about the same as VTI taking a 100% loss in the market. Could it happen - sure... But is it likely to happen - I don't think so...

I've been using OneDrive (and its predecessors) since about the time they were created (well over 10 years). During that time, I don't recall ever losing any data...

OK - I actually did lose a file - but it was my fault... When you "delete" a file, OneDrive stores it in its version of a "recycle bin". That recycle bin is not kept indefinitely (which I didn't initially think about). So when I attempted to go and recover a file like 6 months after I deleted it, I couldn't restore it anymore. Now that I know that - its not a problem for me...
I see. I'll check out the free drive and see how it works as far as rclone and what not.

I guess another concern, inherent in any online services, is that if your ID/pass is compromised then the attacker might delete the data or ransomware it. Also, some of my files contain financial information as well, not sure what to do about those.
Several recommendations: At this point my entire life - finances, medical files, family pictures, etc. are all in OneDrive...

If someone is attempting to access my account, I'll know about it immediately via multifactor (as my phone will be asking me to verify access)...

If my computer is compromised - again as noted above - I don't care... Wipe and and start over getting my data back from OneDrive...

If my OneDrive is somehow compromised by ransomware - I can use the built-in tools to restore my data...

So from my view I have better security, better reliability, much more usability and flexibility, at probably less cost (definitely than what I was paying for a different cloud backup solution previously) and for far more value (getting 1 TB of storage for each family member, Office on any device I care about [again for each family member], etc.).
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Windows 11

Post by Marseille07 »

SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:27 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:17 pm
SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:10 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:50 pm Yeah, with the home PC approach, there's definitely risk of fire / theft.

I haven't used it but OneDrive seems to provide rclone: https://itsfoss.com/use-onedrive-linux-rclone/ This might work similar to rsync :beer

My concern is the reliability of data though. Is there any chance they turn around and say "sorry, we lost your data"?
I think there are few absolutes in life... So I guess I'm "saying there's a chance"...

But personally, I'd put that chance at about the same as VTI taking a 100% loss in the market. Could it happen - sure... But is it likely to happen - I don't think so...

I've been using OneDrive (and its predecessors) since about the time they were created (well over 10 years). During that time, I don't recall ever losing any data...

OK - I actually did lose a file - but it was my fault... When you "delete" a file, OneDrive stores it in its version of a "recycle bin". That recycle bin is not kept indefinitely (which I didn't initially think about). So when I attempted to go and recover a file like 6 months after I deleted it, I couldn't restore it anymore. Now that I know that - its not a problem for me...
I see. I'll check out the free drive and see how it works as far as rclone and what not.

I guess another concern, inherent in any online services, is that if your ID/pass is compromised then the attacker might delete the data or ransomware it. Also, some of my files contain financial information as well, not sure what to do about those.
Several recommendations: At this point my entire life - finances, medical files, family pictures, etc. are all in OneDrive...

If someone is attempting to access my account, I'll know about it immediately via multifactor (as my phone will be asking me to verify access)...

If my computer is compromised - again as noted above - I don't care... Wipe and and start over getting my data back from OneDrive...

If my OneDrive is somehow compromised by ransomware - I can use the built-in tools to restore my data...

So from my view I have better security, better reliability, much more usability and flexibility, at probably less cost (definitely than what I was paying for a different cloud backup solution previously) and for far more value (getting 1 TB of storage for each family member, Office on any device I care about [again for each family member], etc.).
Wow, you're a pro!

I just tried to turn on 2FA and seeing this :oops:
There's a temporary problem
There's a temporary problem with the service. Please try again. If you continue to get this message, try again later.
SnowBog
Posts: 4699
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:34 pm I just tried to turn on 2FA and seeing this :oops:
There's a temporary problem
There's a temporary problem with the service. Please try again. If you continue to get this message, try again later.
:shock: Like I said - "there's a chance"... :wink:

Sadly, I still run into the occasional "temporary problem"...

The day I quit making mistakes at my job - I'll expect perfection from others. Until then, I just try to roll with things...
squirm
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:53 am

Re: Windows 11

Post by squirm »

I've had I've OneDrive aka Skydrive since it was first available. Never had an issue.
Topic Author
chris319
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Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:04 pm

Re: Windows 11

Post by chris319 »

I ran the Windows 11 compatibility checker on my Core i7 desktop machine which is not exactly an antique from the 1920's, and it said "ix-nay" to the Core i7 CPU as "unsupported". One down and one to go.

I then ran it on my AMD Ryzen laptop which is about 2 years old and it didn't like that, either, saying "unsupported CPU", so screw it. I mean, seriously?

I'll be dipped in boiling oil before I spend $2,000 upgrading my hardware just to run Windows 11 which is probably being released 2 - 3 years prematurely and will take 2 - 3 years just to exterminate some of the major bugs. I just spent $$$ upgrading the RAM on my desktop which still has plenty of life left in it.

This is a big reason not to own MSFT stock. It's not a good company, so who wants to own it? Windows 8 was a dud. I can't stand their business model of sucking up data from users' machines and selling it. Luckily I was able to turn off "telemetry" on Windows 10. This is also why I keep Linux Mint updated. That said, I've had many Linux distros over the years. They've all self-destructed after a while and you have to download an iso and reinstall it. I once bought an Asus tablet and was so proud of myself for getting it to run Linux Mint — for a while. Then something happened to corrupt the Linux password and there wasn't a thing I could do about it. It had become a boat anchor so I chucked it. Another Linux distro down the drain.

Used to be that you'd go to Fry's Electronics every couple of years and pick up a copy of the latest Windows release on CD (along with your yearly copy of Turbo Tax) and the new Windows would just install and you would update it. Those days, along with Fry's itself, are gone forever.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by cheese_breath »

chris319 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 am ... Used to be that you'd go to Fry's Electronics every couple of years and pick up a copy of the latest Windows release on CD (along with your yearly copy of Turbo Tax) and the new Windows would just install and you would update it. Those days, along with Fry's itself, are gone forever.
And in those days, before MS security could be trusted you could get Norton Security and Ghost bundles from Fry's with enough rebates to pay for it all.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Marseille07 »

chris319 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 am I ran the Windows 11 compatibility checker on my Core i7 desktop machine which is not exactly an antique from the 1920's, and it said "ix-nay" to the Core i7 CPU as "unsupported". One down and one to go.

I then ran it on my AMD Ryzen laptop which is about 2 years old and it didn't like that, either, saying "unsupported CPU", so screw it. I mean, seriously?

I'll be dipped in boiling oil before I spend $2,000 upgrading my hardware just to run Windows 11 which is probably being released 2 - 3 years prematurely and will take 2 - 3 years just to exterminate some of the major bugs. I just spent $$$ upgrading the RAM on my desktop which still has plenty of life left in it.

This is a big reason not to own MSFT stock. It's not a good company, so who wants to own it? Windows 8 was a dud. I can't stand their business model of sucking up data from users' machines and selling it. Luckily I was able to turn off "telemetry" on Windows 10. This is also why I keep Linux Mint updated. That said, I've had many Linux distros over the years. They've all self-destructed after a while and you have to download an iso and reinstall it. I once bought an Asus tablet and was so proud of myself for getting it to run Linux Mint — for a while. Then something happened to corrupt the Linux password and there wasn't a thing I could do about it. It had become a boat anchor so I chucked it. Another Linux distro down the drain.

Used to be that you'd go to Fry's Electronics every couple of years and pick up a copy of the latest Windows release on CD (along with your yearly copy of Turbo Tax) and the new Windows would just install and you would update it. Those days, along with Fry's itself, are gone forever.
Just stay on 10, I plan to do so until MSFT promises to keep supplying updates to the hardware they flagged as incompatible.

The last days of Fry's were a mess. I went to the store one day; hardly any customers inside and the shelves were mislabeled everywhere. I couldn't find what I was looking for and went to Central Computers instead.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

I always find these anti-Microsoft/anti-upgrade posts somewhere between amusing and annoying...
chris319 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 am I ran the Windows 11 compatibility checker on my Core i7 desktop machine which is not exactly an antique from the 1920's, and it said "ix-nay" to the Core i7 CPU as "unsupported". One down and one to go.

I then ran it on my AMD Ryzen laptop which is about 2 years old and it didn't like that, either, saying "unsupported CPU", so screw it. I mean, seriously?

I'll be dipped in boiling oil before I spend $2,000 upgrading my hardware just to run Windows 11 which is probably being released 2 - 3 years prematurely and will take 2 - 3 years just to exterminate some of the major bugs. I just spent $$$ upgrading the RAM on my desktop which still has plenty of life left in it.
Perfectly fine - and Microsoft is supporting Windows 10 for another 5 4 years giving you the ability to do exactly that. And if they keep Windows 11 upgrade free - unless you buy an entirely new computer [where the manufacture paid Microsoft to install Windows on the device, and even then its only a few dollars Microsoft actually gets], the money you are spending on new hardware doesn't go to Microsoft. So I always smirk when people think this is some big money grab by Microsoft to require more modern hardware...

Companies like Apple require you to purchase their hardware with no alternatives, and then often quit supporting the OS on hardware that may only be a few years old. Yet I don't hear anyone complain about them (or at least as much)... And OS support on Android is atrocious...

Ultimately, as technology evolves - newer hardware standards are required. I'd much rather be in Microsoft's open ecosystem where I have a choice of hardware from numerous manufacturers across multiple price points, and very long lifecycles to leverage those capabilities. Even if I still had to "buy" Windows - I'd happily do so to have a solid and reliable OS and support a business model that isn't built off "me being the product". (Which is not how Microsoft works [outside of Bing as mentioned below].)
chris319 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 am This is a big reason not to own MSFT stock. It's not a good company, so who wants to own it? Windows 8 was a dud. I can't stand their business model of sucking up data from users' machines and selling it. Luckily I was able to turn off "telemetry" on Windows 10.
Show me a reliable source to validate this concern!

To my understanding, Microsoft has explicit policies against doing anything with the data on your devices - and in its cloud services. They expressly state they do not scan, advertise, etc. that data. Note, that doesn't apply to Bing search engine - as all search engines - except those like Duck Duck Go - use search data to help provide tailored ads.

Yes, starting around Windows 8 Microsoft started to enable telemetry data sent back. But put this in context. Because of Microsoft's open ecosystem, there are almost infinite combinations of hardware, software, drivers, etc. found on Windows devices. The telemetry data is used (as I understand it) to help identify "real world issues" that happen on people's devices, so they can help identify the problem and improve the experience. And from my view - its worked exceedingly well. I've had far fewer crashes, driver issues, etc. on Windows since they've been doing this the last few years.

Now, if you don't want to contribute to those efforts - as you've already done - turn it off - they give you that ability...

But again let's contrast... Android and ChromeOS are sucking up every bit of data they can, feeding you recommendations for where to eat, asking you to review where you've been, etc. To my understanding - without drastically limiting the user experience - you have no way to turn these off...

Facebook sucks up tons of data - even if you aren't actively using the app/website. Again - you have no practical way to turn this off...

Again, I rarely hear people complaining about either Google or Facebook as much as Microsoft (who isn't even doing what they are accused of doing).
chris319 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 am Used to be that you'd go to Fry's Electronics every couple of years and pick up a copy of the latest Windows release on CD (along with your yearly copy of Turbo Tax) and the new Windows would just install and you would update it. Those days, along with Fry's itself, are gone forever.
Sorry - the world evolves... Some good, some bad...

Many years ago "hackers" were bored kids in basements... Today there are entire criminal enterprises, businesses with "support" and everything, not to mention nation state actors that are attempting to compromise security.

That genie isn't going back in the bottle, and any improvements to help keep my device, data, and identity secure are welcomed by me...
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Re: Windows 11

Post by stan1 »

Just got notified by Windows Update my Win 11 upgrade is ready.
My hardware is less than a year old & is compatible.
Anyone done an upgrade yet for the production release?
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Doom&Gloom »

stan1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:00 pm Just got notified by Windows Update my Win 11 upgrade is ready.
Anyone done an upgrade yet for the production release?
My PC was informed it was ready about a week ago. Download & installation went smoothly--YMMV of course. All apps, programs, and files remained intact. No issues at all other than my having to adjust to a few changes that appear to be cosmetic (more may be going on under the hood of course). Seems slightly zippier, but that may be placebo effect.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by cheese_breath »

So how do you refuse the update?
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Re: Windows 11

Post by stan1 »

cheese_breath wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:08 pm So how do you refuse the update?
There's a postpone choice, not sure what it does or how long it is in effect.
I decided to go ahead and do the download. My system is pretty standard with no old software.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by retire2022 »

stan1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:00 pm Just got notified by Windows Update my Win 11 upgrade is ready.
My hardware is less than a year old & is compatible.
Anyone done an upgrade yet for the production release?
Just did the update to my laptop about a year old to Windows 11 tonight.

I am retired and have multiple laptops and a desktop.

I will let you know if there are any issues.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by whodidntante »

SnowBog wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:45 pm I just can't bring myself to use desktops again...

Maybe its because I sit at my desk (WFH since pre-pandemic at least) the vast majority of the day for my job (when I'm not traveling :annoyed). But when my "work" is done - I don't want to feel tied to a desk anymore...

So all our personal devices are laptops/tablets - and I honestly can't see a reason to go back...

But I was doing similar with my last few desktop builds - buying low-mid range parts and upgrading more frequently (back then I was building/upgrading my desktop - not buying pre-built ones).
90% of the time that I use my laptop, I remote into my desktop and use that. It's much faster than my laptop. And if pushed to handle a heavy load, my laptop will have me singing a Nat King Cole Christmas song a bit early.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Colorado Guy »

stan1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:00 pm Just got notified by Windows Update my Win 11 upgrade is ready.
My hardware is less than a year old & is compatible.
Anyone done an upgrade yet for the production release?
Did it this past weekend on my desktop. The option hasn't come up yet on my laptop.
No problems encountered. Download and updating took about 35 minutes or so, which is dependent upon download speeds and CPUs of course. One thing I did do before the update was to make sure my motherboard bios was up to date.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Second Round »

chris319 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 am This is a big reason not to own MSFT stock. It's not a good company, so who wants to own it? Windows 8 was a dud. I can't stand their business model of sucking up data from users' machines and selling it. Luckily I was able to turn off "telemetry" on Windows 10. This is also why I keep Linux Mint updated. That said, I've had many Linux distros over the years. They've all self-destructed after a while and you have to download an iso and reinstall it. I once bought an Asus tablet and was so proud of myself for getting it to run Linux Mint — for a while. Then something happened to corrupt the Linux password and there wasn't a thing I could do about it. It had become a boat anchor so I chucked it. Another Linux distro down the drain.
Not sure I'd blame Linux for that, it's not designed for tablets as best I recall, even if it may be able to be made to kind of work.

But your experience points to a practice that I think it important no matter whether you run Windows, macOS/iOS, or Linux, or .... And that is, practice separation of (your) data and the OS. So when you reinstall an OS, or move to a different one, your data is separate (and backed up) and can be plugged in later.

This also encourages the use of file formats that are cross-platform, a benefit to the user, but not to investors in APPL or MSFT.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Colorado Guy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:23 pm
stan1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:00 pm Just got notified by Windows Update my Win 11 upgrade is ready.
My hardware is less than a year old & is compatible.
Anyone done an upgrade yet for the production release?
Did it this past weekend on my desktop. The option hasn't come up yet on my laptop.
No problems encountered. Download and updating took about 35 minutes or so, which is dependent upon download speeds and CPUs of course. One thing I did do before the update was to make sure my motherboard bios was up to date.
I thought my bios was up to date. Apparently it was not as I was prompted to update it immediately after Windows 11 installed--or maybe while it was installing. That was my only point of anxiety during the process--and apparently that dissipated quickly as I had forgotten about it until I read your post.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by SnowBog »

Second Round wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:38 pm
chris319 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 am This is a big reason not to own MSFT stock. It's not a good company, so who wants to own it? Windows 8 was a dud. I can't stand their business model of sucking up data from users' machines and selling it. Luckily I was able to turn off "telemetry" on Windows 10. This is also why I keep Linux Mint updated. That said, I've had many Linux distros over the years. They've all self-destructed after a while and you have to download an iso and reinstall it. I once bought an Asus tablet and was so proud of myself for getting it to run Linux Mint — for a while. Then something happened to corrupt the Linux password and there wasn't a thing I could do about it. It had become a boat anchor so I chucked it. Another Linux distro down the drain.
Not sure I'd blame Linux for that, it's not designed for tablets as best I recall, even if it may be able to be made to kind of work.

But your experience points to a practice that I think it important no matter whether you run Windows, macOS/iOS, or Linux, or .... And that is, practice separation of (your) data and the OS. So when you reinstall an OS, or move to a different one, your data is separate (and backed up) and can be plugged in later.

This also encourages the use of file formats that are cross-platform, a benefit to the user, but not to investors in APPL or MSFT.
Or you could just use a service like OneDrive, so you can access your files on any device (including iOS, macOS, Android, and I belive even Linux) and could care less if a device is broken/stolen/etc. That's what I've been doing for years... Upgrading/replacing a device is as simple as logging in (and on non-Windows devices installing OneDrive and signing in).

Presumably you could use Box, Dropbox, maybe even Google Drive (or whatever Amazon calls theirs) if you want a non-Microsoft option. I don't have personal experience with them, but they are conceptually similar.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by tortoise84 »

I installed it manually using the Windows 11 Installation Assistant before it showed up in Windows Update. It's running fine on my Lenovo IdeaPad S540 i7-8565U laptop. But I did find a bug where ICC color management profiles don't work even though they are installed correctly, and the video card gamma tables do actually get loaded (I'm using DisplayCAL). All color managed programs like Photoshop incorrectly default to an sRGB monitor profile. The workaround I found is to go into Color Management, Advanced tab, and change the Windows Color System Default Device profile to your monitor's ICC profile, then it works correctly, but you can only set one monitor profile.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by chris319 »

I did find a bug where ICC color management profiles don't work even though they are installed correctly, and the video card gamma tables do actually get loaded (I'm using DisplayCAL). All color managed programs like Photoshop incorrectly default to an sRGB monitor profile. The workaround I found is to go into Color Management, Advanced tab, and change the Windows Color System Default Device profile to your monitor's ICC profile, then it works correctly, but you can only set one monitor profile.
In the end, is Windows 11 worth jumping through all these hoops? Is your computer more functional than it was under Windows 10? In other words, what did you gain?
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Re: Windows 11

Post by tortoise84 »

I like being an early adopter of new tech, so I upgraded voluntarily knowing full well that there could be some bugs that should be reported so they can be fixed. I also upgraded my laptop first which is not my primary PC. I have a Ryzen 5 5600X desktop for that, and there is a known major performance regression on Ryzens that they are patching right now, so I'll wait a while before upgrading.

I see Windows 11 as mostly just a visual refresh right now, but over time (the next few years), new features will gradually get added that won't be available in Windows 10, so eventually you'll have to upgrade, or get left behind.

Specifically with the ICC profile bug, I believe it was caused by them reworking the color management system to allow ICC profiles on HDR monitors, which is not available on Win10. This is a feature that I would actually find useful.

Another example that doesn't affect me right now, is that Win11 has support to optimize CPU scheduling on Intel Alder Lake 12th gen CPUs with its separate performance and efficiency cores. So if you want to be at the leading edge, you'll have to upgrade.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by stan1 »

I installed it, no issues. Update took about 25 minutes and went faster than a OS X Monterey update a day earlier. I'd note that Win 11 and OS X Monterey are getting increasingly similar in feature sets (although implemented differently). I give Microsoft some credit for evolving Windows in recent years, but that won't help the folks who simply prefer Win XP or DOS for that matter (there's Linux for them).

Some minor to moderate user interface changes on things like start menu and settings that I'll get used to quickly, although it changes some UX elements that go back to Windows NT so some might not like that. Settings needed to be streamlined.

Performance seems slightly faster although hard to tell. I stay current with software releases for security and performance improvements that won't always make it into a feature list. People who use Teams might like the improved integration (I don't have a video camera on this computer).

I did have to enable the Trusted Platform Module on my processor through the BIOS. I can't remember why I had it turned off.

I have a BS in Computer Science and have worked with Microsoft PCs since 1982. At this point I just want to use the computer as a tool not spend a lot of time on sys admin issues. I don't get myself into situations where I am doing complex or specialized IT support tasks as a hobby.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

stan1 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:08 am I did have to enable the Trusted Platform Module on my processor through the BIOS. I can't remember why I had it turned off.
My Gigabyte BIOS had it disabled by default and for many (most) it was a little known feature. Per What Is a TPM, and Why Do I Need One for Windows 11? | PCMag
PCMag wrote:Microsoft’s upcoming Windows 11 operating system will require a heretofore little-known PC security feature, the Trusted Platform Module (TPM), which is cause for concern among early adopters who can’t wait to get their hands on the new OS.

“Do I have a TPM that works with Windows?” is a question you probably never thought you’d need to ask. But the good news for people who have a PC bought in the last few years is that the answer is almost certainly “Yes.” For everyone else looking to upgrade to Windows 11, especially people who built or upgraded their own Windows desktop, the answer could be more complicated.
I do note that more recent BIOS updates have changed the default to Enabled per Windows 11 requirements.
Gigabyte Support Page - BIOS wrote:Change default status of AMD PSP fTPM to Enabled for addressing basic Windows 11 requirements
tortoise84 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:05 am I like being an early adopter of new tech, so I upgraded voluntarily knowing full well that there could be some bugs that should be reported so they can be fixed. I also upgraded my laptop first which is not my primary PC. I have a Ryzen 5 5600X desktop for that, and there is a known major performance regression on Ryzens that they are patching right now, so I'll wait a while before upgrading.
I too am a serial early adopter who generally likes living on the bleeding edge of technology. The Windows 11-Ryzen bugs have also kept me from updating my main desktop machine.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by stan1 »

tortoise84 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:05 am I have a Ryzen 5 5600X desktop for that, and there is a known major performance regression on Ryzens that they are patching right now, so I'll wait a while before upgrading.
I just downloaded the new chipset software version from AMD site, updated fine (but I have a simple install).
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Re: Windows 11

Post by N.Y.Cab »

Very happy that Windows 11 update went smoothly on my 2019 laptop this morning. All the old apps are working, like me, still hanging in there for a couple more years before retiring to the farm.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by hudson »

N.Y.Cab wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:45 am Very happy that Windows 11 update went smoothly on my 2019 laptop this morning. All the old apps are working, like me, still hanging in there for a couple more years before retiring to the farm.
Did you try Microsoft Money?
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Re: Windows 11

Post by N.Y.Cab »

hudson wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:14 pm
N.Y.Cab wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:45 am Very happy that Windows 11 update went smoothly on my 2019 laptop this morning. All the old apps are working, like me, still hanging in there for a couple more years before retiring to the farm.
Did you try Microsoft Money?
No, I have Quickbooks for that.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Second Round »

SnowBog wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:55 pm Or you could just use a service like OneDrive, so you can access your files on any device (including iOS, macOS, Android, and I belive even Linux) and could care less if a device is broken/stolen/etc. That's what I've been doing for years... Upgrading/replacing a device is as simple as logging in (and on non-Windows devices installing OneDrive and signing in).

Presumably you could use Box, Dropbox, maybe even Google Drive (or whatever Amazon calls theirs) if you want a non-Microsoft option. I don't have personal experience with them, but they are conceptually similar.
Conceptually we are saying the same thing - separate your files from your OS.

If you trust your personal data to the cloud, it is a handy solution. In light of what I read in tech news, I do not. Granted, sneakernet comes with some mild inefficiencies and inconveniences, and it is not foolproof either, but you have to judge relative risk for yourself. Anyway we're drifting.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by stocknoob4111 »

Windows 11 does not run on my machine boo, I have a Ryzen 7 1700X, which makes no sense because hardware wise it's plenty fast to run Windows 11 and it's only a few years old.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by tortoise84 »

Tom's Hardware did some tests before and after AMD's chipset driver update and Microsoft's Win11 patch:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-r ... -cache-bug
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Voltaire2.0 »

I upgraded to Windows 11 with nary a hitch. Everything runs fine on my I3 desktop machine.

After installing I did follow this advice to better ensure my privacy: https://mashtips.com/windows-11-privacy-settings/

I also ran Desktop Cleanup to rid the machine of Gigabytes of upgrade flotsam.
Last edited by Voltaire2.0 on Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windows 11

Post by oldcomputerguy »

My desktop machine is a dual-boot running Windows 10 and Linux Mint, with Linux being the primary OS. Since I only boot into Windows for a very limited number of tasks, none of which are crucial, I'll just keep the Windows side at 10. A plaque sitting on my home office desk says "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Words to live by!
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Re: Windows 11

Post by Stinky »

Voltaire2.0 wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:18 pm I upgraded to Windows 11 with a hitch. Everything runs fine on my I3 desktop machine.
I assume you mean without a hitch?
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Re: Windows 11

Post by RetiredAL »

oldcomputerguy wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:28 pm My desktop machine is a dual-boot running Windows 10 and Linux Mint, with Linux being the primary OS. Since I only boot into Windows for a very limited number of tasks, none of which are crucial, I'll just keep the Windows side at 10. A plaque sitting on my home office desk says "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Words to live by!
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