Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

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Topic Author
September
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Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

Post by September »

Updated on 6/19/2021

I got a few quotes from local window and door installers. Most of them use provia door. Quotes are
almost identical (~$4900) for installing a provia 72X80 (6068) glass patio door. Some vendors use steel door while others use fiberglass. I googled the internet and it seems that the fiberglass door is better for insulation.

Installation Warranty: Some vendors offer lifetime while others are 5-10 years warranty

One vendor quoted me of $4785 using the Thermo-Tru, which he said is of the same quality as Provia.

However, I found that provia has quite a few complaints on BBS
https://www.bbb.org/us/oh/sugarcreek/pr ... mplaints#0

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(previous post)
I got quotes from contractors on replacing glass patio doors:
1) Home Depot uses American Craftman. Total price $3600 (old quotes & good until April)
2) One local contractor uses Provia. Total price $4900 (good for 30 days)

I am still getting estimates from other contractors. The patio doors are very expensive to replace, and I wonder if I should wait out until later this year to see if the price will come down. The contractor told me that I have to wait 8-12 weeks to get it installed due to the delay in ordering the material. They said that the price will only increase.

My patio doors are old and the frame is rotten in the bottom, but otherwise are OK.

I have an ealier post seeking advice on replacing patio doors.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=349877&p=6034351&h ... o#p6034351

Thanks!
Last edited by September on Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:06 am, edited 6 times in total.
Lemans1
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by Lemans1 »

I recommend Provia. Excellent quality!
Murr
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by Murr »

We just had a Provia installed for our entry way door and very pleased. Higher quality and you can tell it's built well. Customer service has also been great when tracking down status and their follow up on the install process. They were were pricey compared to the Lowes/Home Depot options but overall worth the extra
Chip
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by Chip »

We replaced a front door last year with a Provia Signet (fiberglass) with sidelights. We're very happy with the quality but we definitely paid for it. It took 8+ weeks from order to installation. Not surprising, as it was semi-custom built.

The Provia catalog I have shows swinging patio doors available in the same materials and finishes as entry doors. But it appears their sliding doors are only available in vinyl. So I can recommend the the fiberglass swinging door but have no opinion on steel swinging or vinyl sliding.
Topic Author
September
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by September »

Thanks for your recommendations.

The provia door that the contractor quoted me is "Heritage Smooth Fiberglass Patio Door with Clear Glass" with Aluminum Frame Cladding. This door is more expensive than my complete HVAC system that was installed three years ago!!! I can't believe how expensive the doors are. Considering this is not my front door and it's a patio door linked to my deck, I wonder if it's worth to spend this much money :( .
tomd37
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Location: Middle Tennessee

Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by tomd37 »

I had three doors replaced eleven years ago using Provia steel doors; one was front entry door with sidelight, one was French patio with glass, and third was a small entry door with glass. Highly satisfied with all the Provia products. Total cost was $8,600 including taxes and installation. Quality job! :D
Tom D.
Topic Author
September
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by September »

tomd37 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:49 pm I had three doors replaced eleven years ago using Provia steel doors; one was front entry door with sidelight, one was French patio with glass, and third was a small entry door with glass. Highly satisfied with all the Provia products. Total cost was $8,600 including taxes and installation. Quality job! :D
Thanks for your sharing and I am glad that you are very happy with Provia. My front door is in good shape and doesn't need replacement now. My patio door is a French patio with glass as well. I have another entry door in the basement (walk-out) is in fair condition.
maroon
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by maroon »

How about neither? A couple of years ago I bought Pella glass patio doors from Lowe's for ~$800. I did have to hire a contractor to install them.
Chip
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by Chip »

September wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:44 pm The provia door that the contractor quoted me is "Heritage Smooth Fiberglass Patio Door with Clear Glass" with Aluminum Frame Cladding.
I believe that the Heritage line is a little higher grade than the Signet. My installation has the cladding you mentioned. Its purpose is to cover any exposed wood on the frame to reduce/eliminate the chance of rot.

Yes, they are crazy expensive. I'm hoping this is a "buy once/cry once" kind of purchase.

If it makes you feel any better we paid much more than you've been quoted. :shock:
Crow Hunter
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by Crow Hunter »

I work in the industry. A Home Depot/Lowe's contractor grade door will not be the same quality as a higher grade door from Pella or Marvin or Andersen. Noticeably less NFRC, Air, Water, and Structural performance. You also get a significantly better warranty with the higher end offerings.

That being said a lower quality door installed perfectly will be much better than a higher quality door installed incorrectly. Don't skimp on your installer. Almost all of the field rejects that we have are related to poor installation.

No matter what brand you choose, make sure you get multipoint locking hardware and adjustable hinges. You will have much better performance with those than any butt hinge/deadbolt only types.

Another hint is to ask for a "sill pan" as part of the installation. Any installer worth it will know what this is. It will prevent any water that leaks through your door sill (pretty much a guarantee on low quality doors) from rotting out your floor/sub-floor.

Good luck. :sharebeer
THY4373
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by THY4373 »

Had ProVia doors installed at my old house (ex still lives there) probably 11 years ago now, they have held up great. Also has some Marvin French doors installed probably 15 years ago and they too have been solid.
Topic Author
September
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by September »

Again thanks everyone for your replies! I appreciate your help.
This is my patio door
Image[/url]

@chip: I have a 23 year-old town house and a lot of things need to be replaced. Don't know if the money spent on patios doors are worth the investment. :oops:

@maroon: I don't think I can get that cheap as my patio doors are 72X80 and they seem to be custom-made. I have other contractors scheduled to give me estimates later

@THY4373: Thanks for your recommendation.

@Crow Hunter: Glad to hear from the pro in the industry! You pointed out the key elements that my current patio doors are underperforming or non-performing, and I suffered a lot working from home this winter :( . This is the reason why I finally made the decision to replace it. My doors face north west, the less performance in the winter time made it hard to keep a comfortable temperature in my living room for working at home.

I'll definitely find a reputable installer for such an expensive item. One installer quoted me $4950 that includes a life-time warranty for labor.

My patio doors are fixed on the right (due to tight space), and active on the left (left hand inswing), so I have to use hinge/deadbolt type.

"Sill pan" is a good idea. The water actually leaked through my door sill if it's raining very hard.

Any advices on replacing windows ? I am also thinking of replacing those as they are 20+ year old.
Crow Hunter
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by Crow Hunter »

I don't have that much experience with Windows. However I do know that the quality levels between the doors and windows brands are similar.

You will get what you pay for in better designs, less air leakage, better thermal performance and less noise with a higher quality manufacturers.

In door manufacturing parlance what you have is an OX inswing LH. O being the stationary as viewed from the exterior. A reputable manufacturer should offer a multipoint with adjustable in that configuration as a standard. "Standard" sizing is usually a 6068 in most applications. They will be sized by the "rough opening" or RO which is usually the exterior frame size plus 1-2" around the frame. Most manufacturers will also offer a 6/6 (retro size for older construction), 7/0, 8/0 offering as well. That "looks" proportionally close to a 6068 to me.

There are lots of great options and most of the bigger name companies will make your product to order if it isn't one of the traditional standard sizes.

I really urge anyone to get at least multipoint locking because it holds the door significantly tighter to the weather strip and will vastly improve air, water and structural performance. Just adding multipoint hardware will usually almost double a particular door design DP rating. It is well worth the additional cost.
Topic Author
September
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:40 am

Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by September »

Thanks again for your reply!
Crow Hunter wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:13 pm In door manufacturing parlance what you have is an OX inswing LH. O being the stationary as viewed from the exterior. A reputable manufacturer should offer a multipoint with adjustable in that configuration as a standard. "Standard" sizing is usually a 6068 in most applications. They will be sized by the "rough opening" or RO which is usually the exterior frame size plus 1-2" around the frame. Most manufacturers will also offer a 6/6 (retro size for older construction), 7/0, 8/0 offering as well. That "looks" proportionally close to a 6068 to me.
Below is the specification on the doors that one contractor quoted me:

Heritage Smooth Fiberglass Patio Door with Clear Glass
Double Patio Door in FrameSaver Frame
72" x 80" Nominal Size
Unit Size: 73 5/8" x 81 11/16"
Frame Depth: 4 9/16"
2" Standard Brickmold
Left Hand Inswing - Left Door Active (ISLO)
Right Door Fixed
Patio Doors
460 Style Heritage Smooth Fiberglass Door
ComforTech DLA
Colonial Contoured Internal Grid - 2V x 4H
Snow Mist White Grids
Snow Mist White Inside and Outside
Hardware
All Hardware in Lifetime Bright Brass Finish
Georgian Lockset
Thumbturn Deadbolt
Frame
Textured Snow Mist White Aluminum Frame Cladding
Snow Mist White Inside Frame
4 Tubes of Snow Mist White
Mill Finish ZAI Adjustable Threshold (5 5/8" Depth)
Zinc Chromate Ball Bearing Hinges (Complements Bright and Antique
Brass)
Snow Mist White Sliding Patio Screen w/Fiberglass Mesh
Security Plate
Poplar Colonial 2 1/2" Casing - Snow Mist White
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll check into the multipoint locking. I am not sure that I understand this but I can find it out by googling. In winter time, the cold air comes from the center-hinge, maybe what you suggested helps reducing this effect.
dalbright
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by dalbright »

I would try and get a few more quotes in your area for other major brands locally available. This is coming from someone who just installed 10 American craftsman windows and two "modified" sliding doors (turned off the shelf sliders into 3 panel) personally. The american craftsman line fit my needs as I was installing them myself, they fit the size, were in stock locally, and I was able to do some additional work during install to increase performance (updated weatherstripping, spray foam, and various other things beyond the scope of the question.) I also wanted to be able to pick up replacements locally in the future if one got damaged. They are a bit less refined windows/doors as they all have some sloppy adhesive use that can be cleaned/trimmed. Your quote seems rather high for what the American Craftsman (made by ply-gem) should be. That pricing seems closer to the anderson level they sell in store. If I was getting to your price point I would check with pella, anderson, etc first (not at big box stores as these are often rebrands). I love my American Craftsman windows/doors for the price and compared to what I had existing, but I feel like you may be better off getting installed from a reputable window/door company rather than home depot. Since you are in the market, you may want to look into stc ratings for sound if that is important to you. Coming from someone who just went from single panes and 30+ year old french patio doors Low e glass is amazing!!!
Topic Author
September
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by September »

dalbright wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:31 am I would try and get a few more quotes in your area for other major brands locally available.
I am in the process of doing that.
dalbright wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:31 am This is coming from someone who just installed 10 American craftsman windows and two "modified" sliding doors (turned off the shelf sliders into 3 panel) personally. The american craftsman line fit my needs as I was installing them myself, they fit the size, were in stock locally, and I was able to do some additional work during install to increase performance (updated weatherstripping, spray foam, and various other things beyond the scope of the question.)
My patio doors need to be custom-made and the Home Depot doesn't have the size I wanted. Price for similar-sized patio doors by American craftsman on Home Depot website is lower
dalbright wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:31 am Your quote seems rather high for what the American Craftsman (made by ply-gem) should be. That pricing seems closer to the anderson level they sell in store. If I was getting to your price point I would check with pella, anderson, etc first (not at big box stores as these are often rebrands).
I think so. They first quote HD gave me is in January, i.e. $3200. The price for the patio door is 15% lower due to the discount. $2200 (material) + $1000 (labor)

Should I wait it out to see if price can be dropped? Everything seems to be more expensive now after pandemic. The contractor told me that they all see price increasing since last year but not dropping.
dalbright wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:31 am I love my American Craftsman windows/doors for the price and compared to what I had existing, but I feel like you may be better off getting installed from a reputable window/door company rather than home depot. Since you are in the market, you may want to look into stc ratings for sound if that is important to you. Coming from someone who just went from single panes and 30+ year old french patio doors Low e glass is amazing!!!
I will check the stc ratings as well. I got some good references for contractors from nextdoor website in my neighborhood and have scheduled estimates next week. I have double panes but that's 20+ year old. And I am looking for the low e glass as well!

Thanks for your input! I will post more estimates for other companies when they get done next week.
Crow Hunter
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by Crow Hunter »

Prices aren't going down anytime soon(if ever). Prices on raw materials have skyrocketed and availability of both material and labor is low.

That information looks okay for a mid grade door.

I would highly encourage you to look at the Andersen, Marvin and Pella collections as well. They offer competitive mid-grade options that have lots of upgraded design features over the competition.

Just search for multipoint or 3 point locking hardware online to see the difference. Ideally though you should go to a company store to see them in person. It will make quite an impression.

Prior to working in the industry a door was a door. Now that I test them all the time, I will never buy doors without multipoint hardware from a good company with high NFRC ratings. :D
59Gibson
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by 59Gibson »

September wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:15 pm Again thanks everyone for your replies! I appreciate your help.
This is my patio door
Image[/url]

@chip: I have a 23 year-old town house and a lot of things need to be replaced. Don't know if the money spent on patios doors are worth the investment. :oops:

@maroon: I don't think I can get that cheap as my patio doors are 72X80 and they seem to be custom-made. I have other contractors scheduled to give me estimates later

@THY4373: Thanks for your recommendation.

@Crow Hunter: Glad to hear from the pro in the industry! You pointed out the key elements that my current patio doors are underperforming or non-performing, and I suffered a lot working from home this winter :( . This is the reason why I finally made the decision to replace it. My doors face north west, the less performance in the winter time made it hard to keep a comfortable temperature in my living room for working at home.

I'll definitely find a reputable installer for such an expensive item. One installer quoted me $4950 that includes a life-time warranty for labor.

My patio doors are fixed on the right (due to tight space), and active on the left (left hand inswing), so I have to use hinge/deadbolt type.

"Sill pan" is a good idea. The water actually leaked through my door sill if it's raining very hard.

Any advices on replacing windows ? I am also thinking of replacing those as they are 20+ year old.
September wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:15 pm Again thanks everyone for your replies! I appreciate your help.
This is my patio door
Image[/url]

@chip: I have a 23 year-old town house and a lot of things need to be replaced. Don't know if the money spent on patios doors are worth the investment. :oops:

@maroon: I don't think I can get that cheap as my patio doors are 72X80 and they seem to be custom-made. I have other contractors scheduled to give me estimates later

@THY4373: Thanks for your recommendation.

@Crow Hunter: Glad to hear from the pro in the industry! You pointed out the key elements that my current patio doors are underperforming or non-performing, and I suffered a lot working from home this winter :( . This is the reason why I finally made the decision to replace it. My doors face north west, the less performance in the winter time made it hard to keep a comfortable temperature in my living room for working at home.

I'll definitely find a reputable installer for such an expensive item. One installer quoted me $4950 that includes a life-time warranty for labor.

My patio doors are fixed on the right (due to tight space), and active on the left (left hand inswing), so I have to use hinge/deadbolt type.

"Sill pan" is a good idea. The water actually leaked through my door sill if it's raining very hard.

Any advices on replacing windows ? I am also thinking of replacing those as they are 20+ year old.
What is the value of your TH? If $200s- I would not be looking to spend $3-5K on a patio door. If it's 600k+ may make sense.
Topic Author
September
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by September »

Crow Hunter wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:03 pm Prices aren't going down anytime soon(if ever). Prices on raw materials have skyrocketed and availability of both material and labor is low.

That information looks okay for a mid grade door.

I would highly encourage you to look at the Andersen, Marvin and Pella collections as well. They offer competitive mid-grade options that have lots of upgraded design features over the competition.

Just search for multipoint or 3 point locking hardware online to see the difference. Ideally though you should go to a company store to see them in person. It will make quite an impression.

Prior to working in the industry a door was a door. Now that I test them all the time, I will never buy doors without multipoint hardware from a good company with high NFRC ratings. :D
Thanks for your advice. I found some dealer authorized company stores that are in my neighbourhood, and I can check them out.
Topic Author
September
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by September »

59Gibson wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:39 pm
What is the value of your TH? If $200s- I would not be looking to spend $3-5K on a patio door. If it's 600k+ may make sense.
Thanks for your reply. That's a good perspective.

It's neither 200k nor 600k :happy. Two THs in my neighbourhood were sold recently at a price of ~500k+. I don't think that my TH is worth that much because I haven't done any major imvprovements nor did the previous owners :oops: My TH is worth ~$460k according to online estimate

Like you I was surprised at the price of the patio door. Home Depot's price should be mid-range and the quote they gave me in Jan (with 15% discount) is ($3200) and April ($3600). I will have other contractors come in next week to give me more estimates.

I could go cheap by keeping the exisiting patio door but having contractors replaced the frames. The labor cost is not worth it.
rivercrosser
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by rivercrosser »

I just had two three foot entry doors and a six foot slider installed a few weeks ago. Contractor was a dealer for Provia and also Andersen. He wasn't the least expensive but had a good reputation. Windows and doors is all he does. I ended up with Provia smooth fiberglass for the two three foot doors. On the slider went with a Andersen 200 series permashield with the built in blinds. Took about 8 weeks from ordering to installation. He told me up front it would might take several weeks.
musicmom
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Re: Help me choose:Provia or American Craftman for Glass Patio Doors??

Post by musicmom »

Not a patio door but we bought a Provia window for our bath reno last year.
We replaced a rotting wood sash window with a fixed stained glass window in the new tiled shower.
It is gorgeous. The colors are so vivid. Great contrast in a largely black and white room.
We had a choice of about 8 glass configurations, choice of colors.
Its double paned and installed with (fiberglass?) trim that will not rot.

I love looking out the window while showering (it is placed high on the wall above the niche).

The Provia window was custom and pricey, took 4 weeks to deliver.
But superb quality.]
Topic Author
September
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:40 am

Re: Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

Post by September »

Thanks for all your replies!

I got a few quotes from local window and door installers. Most of them use provia door. Quotes are
almost identical (~$4900) for installing a provia 72X80 (6068) glass patio door. Some vendors use steel door while others use fiberglass. I googled the internet and it seems that the fiberglass door is better for insulation.

One vendor quoted me of $4785 using the Thermo-Tru, which he said is of the same quality as Provia.

However, I found that provia has quite a few complaints on BBS
https://www.bbb.org/us/oh/sugarcreek/pr ... mplaints#0
Topic Author
September
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:40 am

Re: Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

Post by September »

Bumped up this tread to get more responses
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Supergrover
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Re: Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

Post by Supergrover »

for $4900 you could get Andersen.
Tribonian
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Re: Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

Post by Tribonian »

We’ve had 2 custom sized Masonite doors installed, chiefly because they have mini-blinds built in between the panes so always clean.

They’re inexpensive but don’t feel or seem cheap.
Topic Author
September
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Re: Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

Post by September »

Supergrover wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:46 pm for $4900 you could get Andersen.
I got six quotes from reputable local window and door companies and they all use Provia. Some asked for $6000. One company quoted me $4800 for Therma-Tru
Topic Author
September
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Re: Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

Post by September »

Tribonian wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:27 pm We’ve had 2 custom sized Masonite doors installed, chiefly because they have mini-blinds built in between the panes so always clean.

They’re inexpensive but don’t feel or seem cheap.
Thanks. Would you mind letting me know the cost of your installation? I found that Home Depot carries this brand. Did you use Home Depot for installation? My local installers seem to only carry expensive brands, and I think there is a mark-up for the price of doors. I care more about insulation than appearance :happy
Tribonian
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Re: Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

Post by Tribonian »

I had one installed by Home Depot and one by a handyman; don’t recall the installation costs but will look and send you a pm if I can locate the invoices.
Topic Author
September
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Re: Updated:Provia Patio Doors (Steel or Fiberglass)??

Post by September »

Tribonian wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:55 pm I had one installed by Home Depot and one by a handyman; don’t recall the installation costs but will look and send you a pm if I can locate the invoices.
Thanks for your reply! If you don't recall the cost, then it may not be that expensive :happy
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