When did cars start good safety features?

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RickBoglehead
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Ford MyKey

Post by RickBoglehead »

One of the features that people haven't hit on, which at least Ford has, is called MyKey. MyKey allows you (owner of vehicle) to setup a key to restrict the usage of some features.

Ford MyKey ® technology helps parents encourage teenagers to drive responsibly. Program your key to a restricted driving mode setting that promotes good habits, such as increasing seat belt use, limiting vehicle top speeds and decreasing audio volume.


MyKey driving modes
Belt-Minder®: This feature effectively provides a six-second reminder chime every 30 seconds and mutes the audio system until the vehicle’s front occupants fasten their safety belts. The message center also displays “Buckle Up to Unmute Radio.”

Top Speed Settings: MyKey allows you to limit a vehicle’s top speed at four different settings - 65, 70, 75 or 80 mph, with chimes sounding at 45, 55 and 65 mph.

Screened radio content: MyKey lets you block all stations labeled as “explicit” by SiriusXM®.

Earlier low-fuel warning: MyKey provides a warning at 75 miles to empty, rather than the standard warning at 50 miles to empty.

More MyKey options

Driving aids such as Park Aid and BLIS® (Blind Spot Information System) with cross-traffic alert can’t be deactivated.

Audio volume can be limited to 44 percent of total volume.

Optional AdvanceTrac® setting, which limits tire spin, can’t be deactivated.
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Da5id
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Re: Ford MyKey

Post by Da5id »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:47 am One of the features that people haven't hit on, which at least Ford has, is called MyKey. MyKey allows you (owner of vehicle) to setup a key to restrict the usage of some features.

Ford MyKey ® technology helps parents encourage teenagers to drive responsibly. Program your key to a restricted driving mode setting that promotes good habits, such as increasing seat belt use, limiting vehicle top speeds and decreasing audio volume.


MyKey driving modes
Belt-Minder®: This feature effectively provides a six-second reminder chime every 30 seconds and mutes the audio system until the vehicle’s front occupants fasten their safety belts. The message center also displays “Buckle Up to Unmute Radio.”

Top Speed Settings: MyKey allows you to limit a vehicle’s top speed at four different settings - 65, 70, 75 or 80 mph, with chimes sounding at 45, 55 and 65 mph.

Screened radio content: MyKey lets you block all stations labeled as “explicit” by SiriusXM®.

Earlier low-fuel warning: MyKey provides a warning at 75 miles to empty, rather than the standard warning at 50 miles to empty.

More MyKey options

Driving aids such as Park Aid and BLIS® (Blind Spot Information System) with cross-traffic alert can’t be deactivated.

Audio volume can be limited to 44 percent of total volume.

Optional AdvanceTrac® setting, which limits tire spin, can’t be deactivated.
I guess these are helpful, though I doubt that they are that useful myself. Having the car report things like non-seatbelt use or max speed might actually be more useful, as knowing that they are being "watched" may make the driver more cautious.

That said, I'm much more concerned about kids using cell phones while driving than any of the things Ford is fixing.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by JonnyDVM »

Totally depends on the vehicle. Mid 2010s I feel like there was a pretty radical upgrade in what was considered standard. If you want the best safety features (adaptive cruise, car breaks for you, blind spot monitors) I think you have to go 2018ish. If you want really solid safety features in a base model look at Suburus.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by alfaspider »

livesoft wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:25 am
jt90505 wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm "...I think the most significant safety features have been seat belts, air bags, antilock brakes, and electronic stability control..."

08 Accord has all of above standard.
1989 Nissan Maxima had those things, too.
I don't believe the 1989 Maxima had electronic stability control. It was only available in super high end vehicles (i.e. Mercedes S class) starting in 1995. The Altima didn't get it until 2008. It may have had traction control, which is not the same thing.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by illumination »

One safety update I think is important was a backup camera system that is now a law every new car has to have, but have been on some cars since the mid-2000's. If I had a new driver in the household, I would insist on a car having that (and you can retrofit one pretty easily) Mostly just because I think it can prevent a lot of the small parking lot incidents that new drivers get into.

I personally think anything built in the last 20 years is "safe" in terms of getting in a crash, it's more about the "physics" of a large car/SUV versus a small car. Making sure the person is a good driver is going to be the most important thing, how they handle getting a text message while driving is going to be more important than any new safety system.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by virgingorda »

Back-up cameras became required in 2018 but were phased in earlier. My 2014 has one. Of course, either way, you have to remember to look at the camera or physically behind you!

Personally, if this was my granddaughter, I would not get her anything more than 10 years old because of reliability concerns. You don't want her stranded somewhere in the middle of the night. No guarantee there either! Once I took my parents' car when I was home for winter break in college and never bothered to look at the gas gauge. I ran out of gas on I-35W in downtown Minneapolis!! Luckily it was near an exit ramp and a gas station and I had a friend with me. Could have been worse!
Last edited by virgingorda on Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ford MyKey

Post by RickBoglehead »

Da5id wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:52 am
I guess these are helpful, though I doubt that they are that useful myself. Having the car report things like non-seatbelt use or max speed might actually be more useful, as knowing that they are being "watched" may make the driver more cautious.

That said, I'm much more concerned about kids using cell phones while driving than any of the things Ford is fixing.
As I'm sure you would agree, it's not Ford's job to control your child's use of a cell phone while driving.

A parent can easily check the child's phone and see if they were texting while driving. There are apps that record speed that a parent could setup. A parent could turn off texting remotely. All sorts of things.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by RickBoglehead »

virgingorda wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:15 am Back-up cameras became required in 2018 but were phased in earlier. My 2014 has one. Of course, either way, you have to remember to look at the camera or physically behind you!
A backup camera would have saved me backing into Mr. Kamarada's (sp?) car in front of the high school with my jacked up (air shocks for trailering) 1976 Pontiac Grand Safari wagon. Took his front bumper right off, and it was his friend's car. That was one expensive bumper... :twisted:
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by virgingorda »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:18 am
virgingorda wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:15 am Back-up cameras became required in 2018 but were phased in earlier. My 2014 has one. Of course, either way, you have to remember to look at the camera or physically behind you!
A backup camera would have saved me backing into Mr. Kamarada's (sp?) car in front of the high school with my jacked up (air shocks for trailering) 1976 Pontiac Grand Safari wagon. Took his front bumper right off, and it was his friend's car. That was one expensive bumper... :twisted:
Hahaha! That was a big oops! My kids have done similar -- one knocked an antenna off his middle school math teacher's car with a soccer ball (poor teacher loved to listen to baseball on his long drive home; and even then, antennas were rare) and the other kid hit the music teacher's car!
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by cheese_breath »

Normchad wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:28 pm .... I think the most significant safety features have been seat belts, air bags, antilock brakes, and electronic stability control. I think those were all standard by 2012. Improved body structures have also been a huge improvement, although its not something obvious. I think most cars from 2012 onward would fall in the good enough category there....
I'd add to those collapsible steering column, padded dash, and head restraints.
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Re: Ford MyKey

Post by Da5id »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:17 am
Da5id wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:52 am
I guess these are helpful, though I doubt that they are that useful myself. Having the car report things like non-seatbelt use or max speed might actually be more useful, as knowing that they are being "watched" may make the driver more cautious.

That said, I'm much more concerned about kids using cell phones while driving than any of the things Ford is fixing.
As I'm sure you would agree, it's not Ford's job to control your child's use of a cell phone while driving.

A parent can easily check the child's phone and see if they were texting while driving. There are apps that record speed that a parent could setup. A parent could turn off texting remotely. All sorts of things.
Sure. I just think the Ford features feel pretty marginally useful compared to nailing down cell phone use. Which is more relevant to safety for OP has he is looking at older cars anyway.
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Re: Ford MyKey

Post by RickBoglehead »

Da5id wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:28 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:17 am
Da5id wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:52 am
I guess these are helpful, though I doubt that they are that useful myself. Having the car report things like non-seatbelt use or max speed might actually be more useful, as knowing that they are being "watched" may make the driver more cautious.

That said, I'm much more concerned about kids using cell phones while driving than any of the things Ford is fixing.
As I'm sure you would agree, it's not Ford's job to control your child's use of a cell phone while driving.

A parent can easily check the child's phone and see if they were texting while driving. There are apps that record speed that a parent could setup. A parent could turn off texting remotely. All sorts of things.
Sure. I just think the Ford features feel pretty marginally useful compared to nailing down cell phone use. Which is more relevant to safety for OP has he is looking at older cars anyway.
MyKey came out in 2009.
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Re: Ford MyKey

Post by Makefile »

Da5id wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:28 am Sure. I just think the Ford features feel pretty marginally useful compared to nailing down cell phone use. Which is more relevant to safety for OP has he is looking at older cars anyway.
Yes, this. There is a lot of stuff out there about "risk compensation." Before CHMSLs (the center, rectangular brake light in the back window), there were some studies of taxicabs predicting some dramatic safety improvement; once they were mandated the benefit disappeared. I guess it's kind of like when someone finds an arbitrage opportunity in the stock market and it disappears once those start taking advantage of it.

As an example, in 2020 traffic deaths skyrocketed back to 2007 levels. So the benefit of all these features can be canceled out by more aggressive driving. If you've been told your car has "automatic braking" how careful are you going to be about safe following distance. And so on.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by 260chrisb »

JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:22 pm Seatbelts became standard in 1964.
Well played!! :D :D

Have her buy something 10 years old. It will be plenty safe. Dependability is a safety feature as well. Plenty of safe 10 year old entry level cars.
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Re: Ford MyKey

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Makefile wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:43 am
Yes, this. There is a lot of stuff out there about "risk compensation." Before CHMSLs (the center, rectangular brake light in the back window), there were some studies of taxicabs predicting some dramatic safety improvement; once they were mandated the benefit disappeared.
I know why. Before CHMSLs, do you remember what cars had brake lights high in the back? I do. Police cars. So that high mounted stop light lights and everyone immediately shouts "The Cops" and slams on their brakes. After 86, when all cars got them, you no longer could tell if there was a cop ahead or not.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by familythriftmd »

jt90505 wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm ...
It also does *not* have a touchscreen display that requires you to take your eyes off the road when modifying settings.
Absolutely! Our Civic 2012 is all real buttons. The Kia Sedona 2016 has an infotainment system that is quite dangerous to operate by comparison.

I'd like to hear more what people think about if the Tesla feels dangerous with their nearly-sole reliance on touch screen. Otherwise I like the Teslas.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by MarkBarb »

I don't think there is a specific cut-off age. I'd shop with a list of "must haves" and "wants" in mind. For my kids, my list of "must haves" was:

1) Seat belts and airbags
2) Very good crash test ratings
3) ABS
4) Collision mitigation breaking
5) Compact or larger in size

"Wants" were:
1) Adaptive cruise
2) Following distance warning/indicator
3) Blind spot warning
4) Backup camera

If I lived in a cold climate, I would probably add more to that list, like AWD or all weather tires.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by Normchad »

familythriftmd wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:38 pm
jt90505 wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm ...
It also does *not* have a touchscreen display that requires you to take your eyes off the road when modifying settings.
Absolutely! Our Civic 2012 is all real buttons. The Kia Sedona 2016 has an infotainment system that is quite dangerous to operate by comparison.

I'd like to hear more what people think about if the Tesla feels dangerous with their nearly-sole reliance on touch screen. Otherwise I like the Teslas.
The Tesla does not feel dangerous to me. It does not solely rely on the big beautiful touchscreen for ANY driving functions.

I keep saying it. You never have to use the touchscreen while driving. Everything you need to do can be done another way. The voice commands work better than in any other car I’ve tried. Say “I’m hot”, and it makes it colder, etc. say “play Van Halen” and it will start playing Van Halen and related songs from its Spotify type service.

I never touch my touchscreen while the car is in motion. It’s not that I’m super safety conscious, there just isn’t any reason to do it. I’m sure other drivers though do fiddle it, change podcasts, or whatever.

When I drive my RDX though, I do have to sort of look around a bit to find where the specific button for this or that is. I’m not complaining, just pointing out that even with buttons and knobs, sometimes people have to take their eyes off the road to find them. Again though, nothing in the RDX forces me to do it; I could wait for a red light.

Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by familythriftmd »

Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:37 pm
The Tesla does not feel dangerous to me. It does not solely rely on the big beautiful touchscreen for ANY driving functions.

I keep saying it. You never have to use the touchscreen while driving. Everything you need to do can be done another way. The voice commands work better than in any other car I’ve tried. Say “I’m hot”, and it makes it colder, etc. say “play Van Halen” and it will start playing Van Halen and related songs from its Spotify type service.

I never touch my touchscreen while the car is in motion. It’s not that I’m super safety conscious, there just isn’t any reason to do it. I’m sure other drivers though do fiddle it, change podcasts, or whatever.

When I drive my RDX though, I do have to sort of look around a bit to find where the specific button for this or that is. I’m not complaining, just pointing out that even with buttons and knobs, sometimes people have to take their eyes off the road to find them. Again though, nothing in the RDX forces me to do it; I could wait for a red light.

Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
Good input, thanks!
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by jharkin »

Normchad wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:28 pm There are probably a lot of different opinions about which safety features are important, and which are nice to have.

For me, 2012 sounds about right. I think the most significant safety features have been seat belts, air bags, antilock brakes, and electronic stability control. I think those were all standard by 2012
Safety glass (laminated) windchields - available from the 1920s, mandatory in hte 1960s.
Seat belts - *the* game changer. 1964 as mentioned above
Radial tires - this is a big one, appearing in Europe in the 60s, then the US in the 70s and essentially standard by the 80s.
Seat belts with rear shoulder belts - 1980s
Air bags - first sold by GM in 1973. Became common in early 1990s.
The passenger side mirrorr and 3rd brake light became mandatory in the 1990s.
Anti-lock brakes - early systems developed in the 1950s. Modern computer controlled systems appears from the big 3 in the early 1970s. It became common in the late 90s/early 2000s. Most European and Asian imports had it as standard from 2000-2004 or so. It was manadatory in the US from 2012.
stability control - lagged anti lock brakes a bit but also mandatory form that 2012 law.

Don't forget all the structural rigidity improvements over the years and the massive improvements in tire technology. Modern cars can survive impacts that would have turned a 1970s vehicle into something that looks like it had already been though the crusher.

For me seat belts was the game changer as I am old enough to remember riding around without them, and to a lesser extent airbags and anti-lock braking. The rest are incremental improvements. I would peg 2000-2004 as an age range when most non-budget vehicles had a good mix of safety. 2012 and above is going to be 99% of something current. One thing that worries me with all this modern tech is drivers getting to reliant on the nannies to save tehm from their own stupidity. If you hit a big patch of black ice a modern car with stability control and adaptive braking will going into a spin just as easily as a Chevy Vega.
Last edited by jharkin on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by livesoft »

We get an insurance discount for daytime running lights.

I do not like the "auto" setting on headlights in that I think some people leave the switch in that setting and then end up driving without their headlights on at dusk or in the rain which also means that the rear lights are not on. Some will disagree, but I insist that all members of my immediate family just leave the lights on always. The lights will shut off nowadays automatically when the car is turned off, so there is no draining of the battery unlike interior dome and door lights.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by teCh0010 »

jt90505 wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm "...I think the most significant safety features have been seat belts, air bags, antilock brakes, and electronic stability control..."

08 Accord has all of above standard.

It also does *not* have a touchscreen display that requires you to take your eyes off the road when modifying settings.
The 11 and 12 accord are part of the same generation and look the same, but Honda made changes to the cabin structure in 2011 to produce a more rigid passenger compartment so they may be the best picks from that generation. Roof strength increased 39% in 2011.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by barnaclebob »

You'd have trouble finding a car without anti lock brakes or frontal airbags these days unless you were trying to avoid them. In addition to those givens, my min safety list would be side curtain airbags and stability control.

Not letting your tires go bald and replacing shocks when they are bad are also good safety items.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by alfaspider »

barnaclebob wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:12 am You'd have trouble finding a car without anti lock brakes or frontal airbags these days unless you were trying to avoid them. In addition to those givens, my min safety list would be side curtain airbags and stability control.

Not letting your tires go bald and replacing shocks when they are bad are also good safety items.
If you are talking NEW cars, they must have anti lock brakes, side curtain airbags, and stability control.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by Da5id »

barnaclebob wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:12 am Not letting your tires go bald and replacing shocks when they are bad are also good safety items.
Proper maintenance is surely a safety feature. I had the timing belt let go on my good old Honda Civic while driving. Car lost all power. A new driver would quite possibly have not dealt well with that failure. I didn't hit anything as I glided to the side of the road. My (quite honest) mechanic said it was more than the car was worth to fix it and to junk the car alas.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by teCh0010 »

Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:37 pm
familythriftmd wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:38 pm
jt90505 wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:52 pm ...
It also does *not* have a touchscreen display that requires you to take your eyes off the road when modifying settings.
Absolutely! Our Civic 2012 is all real buttons. The Kia Sedona 2016 has an infotainment system that is quite dangerous to operate by comparison.

I'd like to hear more what people think about if the Tesla feels dangerous with their nearly-sole reliance on touch screen. Otherwise I like the Teslas.
The Tesla does not feel dangerous to me. It does not solely rely on the big beautiful touchscreen for ANY driving functions.

I keep saying it. You never have to use the touchscreen while driving. Everything you need to do can be done another way. The voice commands work better than in any other car I’ve tried. Say “I’m hot”, and it makes it colder, etc. say “play Van Halen” and it will start playing Van Halen and related songs from its Spotify type service.

I never touch my touchscreen while the car is in motion. It’s not that I’m super safety conscious, there just isn’t any reason to do it. I’m sure other drivers though do fiddle it, change podcasts, or whatever.

When I drive my RDX though, I do have to sort of look around a bit to find where the specific button for this or that is. I’m not complaining, just pointing out that even with buttons and knobs, sometimes people have to take their eyes off the road to find them. Again though, nothing in the RDX forces me to do it; I could wait for a red light.

Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
Doesn’t the Model 3 have the speedometer of the central touch screen and has no gauges in front of the driver if you don’t get HUD?
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by Da5id »

Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:37 pm Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
Having driven in a friends Tesla Model 3 (I think that was the model) when the feature activated, isn't "Lane Departure Avoidance" kind of a work around for the blind spot problem?
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by dbr »

Da5id wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:31 am
Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:37 pm Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
Having driven in a friends Tesla Model 3 (I think that was the model) when the feature activated, isn't "Lane Departure Avoidance" kind of a work around for the blind spot problem?
One huge benefit would be to prevent a drowsy driver from drifting off the edge of the road or over the center line.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by Normchad »

Da5id wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:31 am
Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:37 pm Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
Having driven in a friends Tesla Model 3 (I think that was the model) when the feature activated, isn't "Lane Departure Avoidance" kind of a work around for the blind spot problem?
(An actual Tesla owner, driver and fan boy here). Not really. When I want to change lanes, I want to know that somebody isn’t in the blind spot. And I want to that before I start changing lanes.

On my Mazda, the car would beep at me if I used the turn signal, and something was over there. On my Honda’s, there is an orange indicator in the side view mirror, so when you check your mirror, you see the indicator too. The Tesla only complains after you start moving and are about to hit somebody. It’s a glaring omission IMO for Tesla.

The Tesla faithful will say “look at the screen, you can see if a car is over there”. That is so unnatural, to look to the right at the screen, as you are preparing to move the opposite direction into the left lane.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by oldfatguy »

The most important safety feature in a vehicle for any driver (after seat belts and airbags) is a glove compartment where cell phones can be safely stored while the vehicle is in motion.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by Da5id »

Normchad wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:41 pm
Da5id wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:31 am
Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:37 pm Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
Having driven in a friends Tesla Model 3 (I think that was the model) when the feature activated, isn't "Lane Departure Avoidance" kind of a work around for the blind spot problem?
(An actual Tesla owner, driver and fan boy here). Not really. When I want to change lanes, I want to know that somebody isn’t in the blind spot. And I want to that before I start changing lanes.

On my Mazda, the car would beep at me if I used the turn signal, and something was over there. On my Honda’s, there is an orange indicator in the side view mirror, so when you check your mirror, you see the indicator too. The Tesla only complains after you start moving and are about to hit somebody. It’s a glaring omission IMO for Tesla.

The Tesla faithful will say “look at the screen, you can see if a car is over there”. That is so unnatural, to look to the right at the screen, as you are preparing to move the opposite direction into the left lane.
I don't disagree about what would be more desirable for my taste. Just not sure that the Tesla implementation is less "safe" in terms of accidents saved.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by phxjcc »

JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:22 pm Seatbelts became standard in 1964.
Hydraulic brakes, 1918.
toast0
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Post by toast0 »

Makefile wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:43 am As an example, in 2020 traffic deaths skyrocketed back to 2007 levels. So the benefit of all these features can be canceled out by more aggressive driving. If you've been told your car has "automatic braking" how careful are you going to be about safe following distance. And so on.
Pandemic altered traffic patterns (and behavior in general) is probably a bigger factor than newer vehicle safety features in comparing 2020 driving stats to other years.
H-Town
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by H-Town »

Normchad wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:41 pm
Da5id wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:31 am
Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:37 pm Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
Having driven in a friends Tesla Model 3 (I think that was the model) when the feature activated, isn't "Lane Departure Avoidance" kind of a work around for the blind spot problem?
(An actual Tesla owner, driver and fan boy here). Not really. When I want to change lanes, I want to know that somebody isn’t in the blind spot. And I want to that before I start changing lanes.

On my Mazda, the car would beep at me if I used the turn signal, and something was over there. On my Honda’s, there is an orange indicator in the side view mirror, so when you check your mirror, you see the indicator too. The Tesla only complains after you start moving and are about to hit somebody. It’s a glaring omission IMO for Tesla.

The Tesla faithful will say “look at the screen, you can see if a car is over there”. That is so unnatural, to look to the right at the screen, as you are preparing to move the opposite direction into the left lane.
Or you just look over your shoulder and watch for the blind spot... Real life situation can be complicated. What if there's a car on the far left lane is changing to the right lane at the same time? Just basic driving skill: turn your head and check.
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alfaspider
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by alfaspider »

H-Town wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:14 pm
Normchad wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:41 pm
Da5id wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:31 am
Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:37 pm Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
Having driven in a friends Tesla Model 3 (I think that was the model) when the feature activated, isn't "Lane Departure Avoidance" kind of a work around for the blind spot problem?
(An actual Tesla owner, driver and fan boy here). Not really. When I want to change lanes, I want to know that somebody isn’t in the blind spot. And I want to that before I start changing lanes.

On my Mazda, the car would beep at me if I used the turn signal, and something was over there. On my Honda’s, there is an orange indicator in the side view mirror, so when you check your mirror, you see the indicator too. The Tesla only complains after you start moving and are about to hit somebody. It’s a glaring omission IMO for Tesla.

The Tesla faithful will say “look at the screen, you can see if a car is over there”. That is so unnatural, to look to the right at the screen, as you are preparing to move the opposite direction into the left lane.
Or you just look over your shoulder and watch for the blind spot... Real life situation can be complicated. What if there's a car on the far left lane is changing to the right lane at the same time? Just basic driving skill: turn your head and check.
Sure, you can manually check blind spots, but I do really like the blind spot indicators on my wife's Subaru. It's just a simple light on side of the mirror, with a chime that sounds if it's illuminated and your turn signal is on. Checking manually, I sometimes find myself taking too much attention off forward travel. It's also a problem if your car is heavily loaded and you can't see your blind spot well.
barnaclebob
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by barnaclebob »

alfaspider wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:22 am
barnaclebob wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:12 am You'd have trouble finding a car without anti lock brakes or frontal airbags these days unless you were trying to avoid them. In addition to those givens, my min safety list would be side curtain airbags and stability control.

Not letting your tires go bald and replacing shocks when they are bad are also good safety items.
If you are talking NEW cars, they must have anti lock brakes, side curtain airbags, and stability control.
OP is not talking about new cars.
dbr
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by dbr »

It's a legitimate concern to know how a used car one contemplates is designed and equipped regarding safety technology. Many of the more recent innovations are year, make, model, and trim level specific so a person has to be aware how the individual car is equipped. Other features are going to be more standard. Some research in detail is needed.
JackoC
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by JackoC »

H-Town wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:14 pm
Normchad wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:41 pm
Da5id wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:31 am
Normchad wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:37 pm Since it’s a safety thread, I will point out that my Tesla model 3, for all its techno wizardry, does not have blind spot monitoring.
Having driven in a friends Tesla Model 3 (I think that was the model) when the feature activated, isn't "Lane Departure Avoidance" kind of a work around for the blind spot problem?
(An actual Tesla owner, driver and fan boy here). Not really. When I want to change lanes, I want to know that somebody isn’t in the blind spot. And I want to that before I start changing lanes.

On my Mazda, the car would beep at me if I used the turn signal, and something was over there. On my Honda’s, there is an orange indicator in the side view mirror, so when you check your mirror, you see the indicator too. The Tesla only complains after you start moving and are about to hit somebody. It’s a glaring omission IMO for Tesla.

The Tesla faithful will say “look at the screen, you can see if a car is over there”. That is so unnatural, to look to the right at the screen, as you are preparing to move the opposite direction into the left lane.
Or you just look over your shoulder and watch for the blind spot... Real life situation can be complicated. What if there's a car on the far left lane is changing to the right lane at the same time? Just basic driving skill: turn your head and check.
If the blind spot monitor tells it's not safe to change lanes there's no point in second guessing that by turning your head, thus reducing the amount of times you have to turn your head and thus not be paying attention to what's ahead. If the monitor says it's OK, you can still confirm it by turning your head, but take your eyes off the road ahead less often: useful feature.

It wasn't an option on my 2018 car but I would have gotten it if it was, and will when it's available is on a car I otherwise like. Obviously it's not literally necessary, we all know people have driven without it for a long time and accidents the fault of careful drivers have never been highly common. That's not IMO a reasonable measure however of whether a safety feature is useful. Older drivers who've never had a serious accident (45 yrs for me) did that at one time without ABS, ECS etc. but that's a very weak argument against those features also.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by NYC_Guy »

JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:22 pm Seatbelts became standard in 1964.
That’s a complete troll post. Why do ppl do this?

I’d stick with 8 years old as a rule of thumb.
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JoeRetire
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by JoeRetire »

NYC_Guy wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:59 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:22 pm Seatbelts became standard in 1964.
That’s a complete troll post. Why do ppl do this?

I’d stick with 8 years old as a rule of thumb.
The point was "good safety features" is an individual thing. There's no magic about 8 years old - it only depends on what is important to you specifically.

Sorry if the subtlety was lost on you.
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NYC_Guy
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by NYC_Guy »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:30 am
NYC_Guy wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:59 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:22 pm Seatbelts became standard in 1964.
That’s a complete troll post. Why do ppl do this?

I’d stick with 8 years old as a rule of thumb.
The point was "good safety features" is an individual thing. There's no magic about 8 years old - it only depends on what is important to you specifically.

Sorry if the subtlety was lost on you.
No, it’s not individual. Safety features are objective. There’s no way I’d put a 16 year old new driver in a car that’s more than 8 or so years old. And my reasoning is objective (not relative or subjective).
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by SR7 »

I have an old 2006 GM (Opel) that I use as a commuter (beater) car that I can park anywhere without concern if somebody bumps into it.

Base model, came standard with seat belts, laminated windscreen, antilock brakes, central locking and two front air bags.

If I needed to replace it, I would look from 2010 onwards and more likely 2015 onwards. Just so the car isn’t too old and likely to need an expensive replacement part. When I get it, first step the local mechanic for an oil change and brake fluid flush, plus general inspection.

The modern safety feature I missed most was a reversing camera.
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Outer Marker
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by Outer Marker »

Airbags and ABS braking are the major ones in my opinion. Both are required on everything after 2004. I'm not a believer in trying to idiot-proof cars with automation. There's no substitute for vigilance and good operating technique. Driver education in this country is a joke, compared, say, to Germany, where it's more equivalent to getting a pilot's license. A good safety investment would be 3 days at BMW's performance driving school.
Ricola
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by Ricola »

My kids all learned to drive in, drove in high school, and in college our 92 Volvo 940. It has all-wheel disks antilock brakes, a safety cage, side-impact with high strength steel, driver airbag, crumple zones, and history and reputation for safety. They say they still feel safer driving it because it feels old school, harder to steer, heavy brakes, large open boxy interior. We still have that car. :)
cbeck
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by cbeck »

Progress in increasing road safety has been continuous since the Model T days. This graph says it all. Deaths per billion vehicular miles travelled is the key data item. Some of that improvement is due to highway and road design and some to safety awareness campaigns, but most is probably due to improvements in automobile safety design.




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jt90505
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by jt90505 »

Another good thread. My big takeaway is the point Savemor made about passive safety that improves crash survivability (seat belts, airbags, etc.) and active safety that reduces the likelihood of crashes (autobrake, blind spot detection, etc.).

My big problem with active safety is people placing too much dependence on it, gradually reducing their defensive driving... by not looking over their shoulder for blind spots, trusting that adaptive cruise control will slow the car, etc. Great when its a mature technology, I don't think its there yet. And I suspect young drivers are more likely to grow dependent on the technology vs. using safe driving skills.

I'm sure studies have been done which validate any viewpoint anyone has. There is certainly not an objective, definitive minimum set of safety features. Personally I am quite comfortable driving cars with a robust set of passive safety features. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread!
Morgan Dollar 1921
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by Morgan Dollar 1921 »

snackdog wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:48 pm Cadillac and Buick were offered with airbags in 1974!
In defense of my favorite GM division and first car I drove, let me add, the following to your info, respectfully.

1974-1976 Oldsmobile Delta 88, Delta 88 Royale, Ninety Eight, and Toronado

The RPO number as I recall was AR3. A GM dealer magazine had a story of a State Patrol officer pulling to a crash scene, he felt sure the driver of the vehicle would be deceased. He was wrong, it was an Olds with the ACRS, Air Cushion Restraint System option. I am not sure why GM dropped them, but added cost for the option was a "speed bump" I heard.

The first car I ever drove on the street, a 1967 Olds Delmont 88 425 cubic inch V8, two barrel carb if my memory serves me correctly. We also owned a 1970 Delta 88 two door hardtop, the kids called it the B1 bomber.
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JoeRetire
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by JoeRetire »

NYC_Guy wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:46 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:30 am
NYC_Guy wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:59 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:22 pm Seatbelts became standard in 1964.
That’s a complete troll post. Why do ppl do this?

I’d stick with 8 years old as a rule of thumb.
The point was "good safety features" is an individual thing. There's no magic about 8 years old - it only depends on what is important to you specifically.

Sorry if the subtlety was lost on you.
No, it’s not individual. Safety features are objective. There’s no way I’d put a 16 year old new driver in a car that’s more than 8 or so years old. And my reasoning is objective (not relative or subjective).
We each decide which "safety features" are important, and which are expensive fluff.

I suspect your definition of "objective" is subjective.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by lazydavid »

JoeRetire wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:44 pm
NYC_Guy wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:46 pm No, it’s not individual. Safety features are objective. There’s no way I’d put a 16 year old new driver in a car that’s more than 8 or so years old. And my reasoning is objective (not relative or subjective).
We each decide which "safety features" are important, and which are expensive fluff.

I suspect your definition of "objective" is subjective.
Agreed. The car my son will be driving when he gets his license in 2 years is currently 11 years old (2011 model). The only safety features that have become mandatory since it was built are ESC (which it has) and a reverse camera (which it does not need--excellent sightlines). There are no safety features it lacks that were ubiquitous in MY2014 cars, so the 8-year hard limit is not only subjective, it is arbitrary.
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Re: When did cars start good safety features?

Post by gerntz »

Bought GD a 2020 Kia Soul S last July specifically for all the safety features it offered at such a low price.
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