Ford Lightning EV
- eye.surgeon
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
I think Ford hit it out of the park with the Lightning. I think they will sell every one they can make and frankly I think it's very unlikely with limited battery supply that they will be able to meet demand.
Do you hear that sound? That's the sound of thousands of Tesla Cybertruck and Rivian orders being cancelled. The Ford makes the Tesla cybertruck look overly cowbelled and this is coming from a Tesla fan who drove a Tesla for 6 years.
Do you hear that sound? That's the sound of thousands of Tesla Cybertruck and Rivian orders being cancelled. The Ford makes the Tesla cybertruck look overly cowbelled and this is coming from a Tesla fan who drove a Tesla for 6 years.
Last edited by eye.surgeon on Fri May 21, 2021 11:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Cross-overs and SUV's are the fastest growing market segment in the US, and Europeans are fans of hatchbacks. Ford is just giving folks the size of car that they want. (Personally a fan of sedans, so I purchase a Tesla Model 3 as opposed to the Y.)Monsterflockster wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 12:25 amImagine if they made the e-Mustang look like a REAL mustang, not a 4 door cross over. People want electric vehicles to look like... wait for it... regular trucks and cars.angelescrest wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 10:57 pm$5000 in state, too?! What’re you waiting for? I’d buy one tomorrow if I lived there. Even if you didn’t like it you could sell it in a couple years for a profit.Jags4186 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:39 am Very excited about it even though I would never buy one. If it delivers in the real world as promised then the narrative of the rise of Tesla/demise of legacy automanufacturing may need serious course correction. And that's a good thing as more competition means better products at better prices.
I think the hard thing to think about for us consumers is whether or not it makes sense to try to dive in and get a EV in the next year or so to take advantage of tax credits, or wait another 2 or 3 years for hopefully better products. In NJ I would qualify for a $7,500 federal tax credit and a $5,000 state tax credit. That's a big incentive to get an EV now...
People I know who would spit on a Tesla are seriously talking about the Lightning. What a car.
A commuter you plug in nightly in your garage is very convenient. If you don’t have a charger at home I wouldn’t get one.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Yeah, they were hedging. I think the strategy was that with the growing SUV/CUV market, there's a lot more money to be made investing in that category and not in sedans and sports cars. And they needed branding power, so they took the Mustang name and put it into this all new vehicle. It's risky, because on the one hand you're potentially turning off Mustang die-hards, in the hopes that you'll get a larger number of new customers who are willing to adopt it. In my case, however, I'd rather have a more traditional CUV/SUV that isn't also trying to be a sports car, so they missed out on people like me altogether. So you're exactly right, I wanted a regular car, which is why I'm probably going to settle on the ID.4, which looks/drives fairly conventionally, but with the conveniences and torque of an EV.Monsterflockster wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 12:25 am Imagine if they made the e-Mustang look like a REAL mustang, not a 4 door cross over. People want electric vehicles to look like... wait for it... regular trucks and cars.
Still, I really respect them for going all-in on innovation and change. There are so many large corporations who are dying because they won't change, so more power to Ford for doing it.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
If the 150kwh estimated battery size for the 300 mile model is correct, Ford is being conservative in their 300 mile range advertisement. The F150 Lightning has a curb weight of 6500lbs, about 1000lbs more than a Model X. The Model X long range is rated at 360 miles from a (usable) 95kwh pack, for a rating of ~270wh/mile. Yes, the Model X is lighter and more aero, and Tesla currently has a technical advantage in efficiency, but the F150 would have to be rated at 500wh/mile to get only 300 miles from 150kwh. That seems unlikely driven unloaded.
Either the early battery size estimates are way off, or this is likely to be rated at closer to 400 miles in the test cycle, and Ford is tempering expectations a bit by under-selling it while the numbers are still unofficial.
Either the early battery size estimates are way off, or this is likely to be rated at closer to 400 miles in the test cycle, and Ford is tempering expectations a bit by under-selling it while the numbers are still unofficial.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Some less efficient EVs (all have better aerodynamics than F150 in my opinion)onourway wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 11:41 am If the 150kwh estimated battery size for the 300 mile model is correct, Ford is being conservative in their 300 mile range advertisement. The F150 Lightning has a curb weight of 6500lbs, about 1000lbs more than a Model X. The Model X long range is rated at 360 miles from a (usable) 95kwh pack, for a rating of ~270wh/mile. Yes, the Model X is lighter and more aero, and Tesla currently has a technical advantage in efficiency, but the F150 would have to be rated at 500wh/mile to get only 300 miles from 150kwh. That seems unlikely driven unloaded.
Either the early battery size estimates are way off, or this is likely to be rated at closer to 400 miles in the test cycle, and Ford is tempering expectations a bit by under-selling it while the numbers are still unofficial.
Mercedes EQV300 Van - 450Wh/mile
Cybertruck Tri-motor - 430Wh/mile
Audi Etron s 55 Quattro - 430Wh/mile
Re: Ford Lightning EV
B... but... the cybertruck has bullet proof glass! Isn't that what everyone wants .eye.surgeon wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:39 am I think Ford hit it out of the park with the Lightning. I think they will sell every one they can make and frankly I think it's very unlikely with limited battery supply that they will be able to meet demand.
Do you hear that sound? That's the sound of thousands of Tesla Cybertruck and Rivian orders being cancelled. The Ford makes the Tesla cybertruck look overly cowbelled and this is coming from a Tesla fan who drove a Tesla for 6 years.
I would have wanted to get the cybertruck simply because there was no comparable EV truck. Now there is a regular truck that is simply been made electric and affordable. I do believe you are right: they will sell as many of these as they want as soon as they can make them.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Absolutely. Also, the battery can power your home in a power outage. How cool is that? Tesla got out-Tesla'd.eye.surgeon wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:39 am I think Ford hit it out of the park with the Lightning. I think they will sell every one they can make and frankly I think it's very unlikely with limited battery supply that they will be able to meet demand.
Do you hear that sound? That's the sound of thousands of Tesla Cybertruck and Rivian orders being cancelled. The Ford makes the Tesla cybertruck look overly cowbelled and this is coming from a Tesla fan who drove a Tesla for 6 years.
Just wait till they electrify the Explorer.
- RickBoglehead
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
I am waiting for this. Ideally, we'd have an electric Explorer and an F-150. Use the Explorer 90% of the time. Since my F-150 is in great shape after 7 years with 46,000 miles, hard to justify spending $50 or $60,000 on an electric F-150.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
This is the question every potential buyer will ask and the reason this product will fail.FootballFan5548 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 am I'm new to the electric vehicle world, but interested in buying a truck (most likely an F150) in the next 6-12 months.
Quick question on the charging... how long does it take to fully charge or charge something halfway?
If you have 283 mile range, and are on the road running low, how long as you stopped waiting to get the charge up enough to get back home?
Re: Ford Lightning EV
Do you legitimately believe the product will fall for this reason? I live in an neighborhood with lots of contractors and they are looking forward to this truck. No one (N=2) seemed concerned with the DC fast charge rate since the assumption was that they would charge overnight in their own driveways.joeples wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 12:47 pmThis is the question every potential buyer will ask and the reason this product will fail.FootballFan5548 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 am I'm new to the electric vehicle world, but interested in buying a truck (most likely an F150) in the next 6-12 months.
Quick question on the charging... how long does it take to fully charge or charge something halfway?
If you have 283 mile range, and are on the road running low, how long as you stopped waiting to get the charge up enough to get back home?
Is the "typical" use case you are concerned with is someone who needs to drive ~280 miles one way to a job site, fully charge the truck from empty, and then drive ~280 miles back home. All in one day...
- TomatoTomahto
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Perfect use case. And, around here in MA where contractors inexplicably leave their motors running for heating and cooling for hours, they will be able to precondition the truck for their various breaks. And, bonus, recharge their battery operated power tools. The edge cases of 2,000 mile road trips are a non-issue for the contractor trucks.mervinj7 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 1:52 pmDo you legitimately believe the product will fall for this reason? I live in an neighborhood with lots of contractors and they are looking forward to this truck. No one (N=2) seemed concerned with the DC fast charge rate since the assumption was that they would charge overnight in their own driveways.joeples wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 12:47 pmThis is the question every potential buyer will ask and the reason this product will fail.FootballFan5548 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 am I'm new to the electric vehicle world, but interested in buying a truck (most likely an F150) in the next 6-12 months.
Quick question on the charging... how long does it take to fully charge or charge something halfway?
If you have 283 mile range, and are on the road running low, how long as you stopped waiting to get the charge up enough to get back home?
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
You should go do some research b/c owning an EV is a paradigm shift in how you drive and think about a car.FootballFan5548 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 am I'm new to the electric vehicle world, but interested in buying a truck (most likely an F150) in the next 6-12 months.
Quick question on the charging... how long does it take to fully charge or charge something halfway?
If you have 283 mile range, and are on the road running low, how long as you stopped waiting to get the charge up enough to get back home?
I'll give a couple of pointers b/c it can take awhile to find some of this info:
You have to think about the size of the battery as flexibility. Bigger batteries charge faster, give you a bigger reserve (you should only ever be using the middle of your battery; charge to 80% and charge up when you hit 20%). It's even better to run 70/30 or 60/40. So that range you're quoting? 283 miles? You'll never use it like you use gas. You'll leave your house daily w/ 225 miles.
Charging comes in 3 varieties.
120v gives 2-3 miles per hour (not very useful)
240v gives 20-40 miles per hour (miles are based on vehicle efficiency; a tesla model 3 will do 4 miles / kWh. this truck might do 2 or 2.5 miles / kWh. You should have one of these in your garage.
DC fast based on the speed of the charger as this bypasses your internal charger and directly shoots juice into your battery controlled by the external charger. Is about 10-15 times faster than lvl 2, but is vehicle dependent on what it can accept.
I love EVs; no more getting into a hot car or getting into a frozen car. No emissions in the garage. Leave home everyday fully charged if I want. Less complexity of mechanics. NO gas station visits.
Road tripping in a Tesla is no big deal but is more complex w/ non-Tesla's.
I hope this helps b/c you really do need to think about an EV differently than a gas car. They drive the same but how you manage their daily fueling is different.
This F150 is super compelling.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
Wow! That’s nice!iamlucky13 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 1:45 pmBrowsing more on their website, I see the XLT trim will have an option to add a 9.6 kW "Pro Power Onboard" feature, and it will be standard on the Lariat trim.
It provides 10 x 120V AC outlets (4 in the frunk, 2 in the cab, 4 in the bed), and 1 x 240V AC outlet in the bed.
Also, the 80A charger will natively support home backup for up to 9.6 kW (when installed with an appropriate transfer switch, of course).
These details were published in the last couple of hours - I just glanced at my browser tabs and saw I have the same Ford page open twice. The older tab does not list this info.
I really hope this option becomes ubiquitous. We'll be shopping for a replacement for my wife's car in a few years. We probably won't get a full size pickup, but in general whether we go electric or gas/hybrid will depend in no small part on the price. Being able to use an EV battery easily as a backup power source would count as a several thousand dollar value bonus in the EV's favor in that decision.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
45000 reservations in 48 hours.
Bound to sell like crazy because lots of govt agencies will want fleets that will likely be subsidized by stimulus packs.
Bound to sell like crazy because lots of govt agencies will want fleets that will likely be subsidized by stimulus packs.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
I just started reading about this truck. What just happened? This is super impressive. The price and specs would be competitive even for a normal EV car, but they put this in a F150? Furthermore, unlike other companies' trucks, it actually appears to be a real vehicle. Unless there is a serious flaw like the truck literally exploding, this is going to have a huge impact on everything.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
"Perfect use case. And, around here in MA where contractors inexplicably leave their motors running for heating and cooling for hours, they will be able to precondition the truck for their various breaks. And, bonus, recharge their battery operated power tools."TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:00 pmPerfect use case. And, around here in MA where contractors inexplicably leave their motors running for heating and cooling for hours, they will be able to precondition the truck for their various breaks. And, bonus, recharge their battery operated power tools. The edge cases of 2,000 mile road trips are a non-issue for the contractor trucks.mervinj7 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 1:52 pmDo you legitimately believe the product will fall for this reason? I live in an neighborhood with lots of contractors and they are looking forward to this truck. No one (N=2) seemed concerned with the DC fast charge rate since the assumption was that they would charge overnight in their own driveways.joeples wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 12:47 pmThis is the question every potential buyer will ask and the reason this product will fail.FootballFan5548 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 am I'm new to the electric vehicle world, but interested in buying a truck (most likely an F150) in the next 6-12 months.
Quick question on the charging... how long does it take to fully charge or charge something halfway?
If you have 283 mile range, and are on the road running low, how long as you stopped waiting to get the charge up enough to get back home?
I dont see it at all ....
- start with a full charge and set out with your enclosed trailer in tow
- drive to get materials then onsite for maybe 30-50 miles where no power is available
- use more power onsite? I dont think so
- leave during the day to do another quote and/or materials trip or food 10-20 miles more
- leave to go home with trailer in tow ....can't make it home with powere available....
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Well, my contractors don’t work the way you describe. We can agree to come back in a year or two and compare notes.smitcat wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:53 pm I dont see it at all ....
- start with a full charge and set out with your enclosed trailer in tow
- drive to get materials then onsite for maybe 30-50 miles where no power is available
- use more power onsite? I dont think so
- leave during the day to do another quote and/or materials trip or food 10-20 miles more
- leave to go home with trailer in tow ....can't make it home with powere available....
ETA: we are near Boston, not out in the wilderness.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
We live in Long Island NY .... and know exactly where you are....TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:57 pmWell, my contractors don’t work the way you describe. We can agree to come back in a year or two and compare notes.smitcat wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:53 pm I dont see it at all ....
- start with a full charge and set out with your enclosed trailer in tow
- drive to get materials then onsite for maybe 30-50 miles where no power is available
- use more power onsite? I dont think so
- leave during the day to do another quote and/or materials trip or food 10-20 miles more
- leave to go home with trailer in tow ....can't make it home with powere available....
ETA: we are near Boston, not out in the wilderness.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Obviously it didn't "just happen." Every model takes years of work, even when it's just a minor upgrade. I believe Ford got serious about their EV powertrain program around 2010. The Focus electric was almost ready to release at the time, but was viewed by some as a car for complying with California EV sales mandates, rather than a serious effort at a competitive vehicle.hi_there wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:37 pm I just started reading about this truck. What just happened? This is super impressive. The price and specs would be competitive even for a normal EV car, but they put this in a F150? Furthermore, unlike other companies' trucks, it actually appears to be a real vehicle. Unless there is a serious flaw like the truck literally exploding, this is going to have a huge impact on everything.
They announced the F-150 hybrid in 2017 for a 2020 introduction. They announced this fully electric F-150 in 2019.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
It will likely be tremendously cheaper to maintain. That will be a plus for fleet operators who currently have to maintain repair shops for their ICE fleets.finite_difference wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:30 am
I’m really curious if commercial fleet operators will buy into it. All they care about is utility and TCO. If it’s cheaper and has equal or better utility, that would be huge for adoption?
Re: Ford Lightning EV
This is a Truck I would be interested in, but I have a lot to learn about EV's. The range seems good, and would satisfy all of my DD, but we take some long road trips to visit family and vacations. I would have to understand and learn how to budget additional time to allow for re-charging vs a 10 minute fillup at the pump.
Does anyone know if there is a standard regarding the charging plugs on the car and at the recharging stations? I would hope they are not proprietary to each manufacturer.
Does anyone know if there is a standard regarding the charging plugs on the car and at the recharging stations? I would hope they are not proprietary to each manufacturer.
- TomatoTomahto
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
AFAIK, Tesla is the only proprietary charger.
Tesla and non-Tesla can charge at most chargers; only Tesla can charge at SuperChargers.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
If you gotta drive more than 30 miles to a job site...it ain't likely to be profitable vs another job closer in. I'm 23 miles from a Lowe's. I've been told "Nope, sorry, that's way too far for us" by lots of contractors.smitcat wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:07 pmWe live in Long Island NY .... and know exactly where you are....TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:57 pmWell, my contractors don’t work the way you describe. We can agree to come back in a year or two and compare notes.smitcat wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:53 pm I dont see it at all ....
- start with a full charge and set out with your enclosed trailer in tow
- drive to get materials then onsite for maybe 30-50 miles where no power is available
- use more power onsite? I dont think so
- leave during the day to do another quote and/or materials trip or food 10-20 miles more
- leave to go home with trailer in tow ....can't make it home with powere available....
ETA: we are near Boston, not out in the wilderness.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
Actually non-Tesla EVs can now use a Tesla charging station, so long as you buy a Tesla-to-J1772 connector. They are widely available, even thru Amazon & Home Depot. https://www.homedepot.com/p/LECTRON-Tes ... /313326040TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:33 pmAFAIK, Tesla is the only proprietary charger.
Tesla and non-Tesla can charge at most chargers; only Tesla can charge at SuperChargers.
Based on my projected driving needs, I have no plans at this point to go that route.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Yes, a whole EV world knows.Harri88 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:28 pm This is a Truck I would be interested in, but I have a lot to learn about EV's. The range seems good, and would satisfy all of my DD, but we take some long road trips to visit family and vacations. I would have to understand and learn how to budget additional time to allow for re-charging vs a 10 minute fillup at the pump.
Does anyone know if there is a standard regarding the charging plugs on the car and at the recharging stations? I would hope they are not proprietary to each manufacturer.
https://electrek.co/2021/03/05/electric ... ey-differ/
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
So your saying EVs shouldn't be charged past 80%? I recently leased an Audi Etron and have been charging to full every night (perhaps dont need to care since its a lease and am covered by the warranty for 3 years)clutchied wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:01 pmYou should go do some research b/c owning an EV is a paradigm shift in how you drive and think about a car.FootballFan5548 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 am I'm new to the electric vehicle world, but interested in buying a truck (most likely an F150) in the next 6-12 months.
Quick question on the charging... how long does it take to fully charge or charge something halfway?
If you have 283 mile range, and are on the road running low, how long as you stopped waiting to get the charge up enough to get back home?
I'll give a couple of pointers b/c it can take awhile to find some of this info:
You have to think about the size of the battery as flexibility. Bigger batteries charge faster, give you a bigger reserve (you should only ever be using the middle of your battery; charge to 80% and charge up when you hit 20%). It's even better to run 70/30 or 60/40. So that range you're quoting? 283 miles? You'll never use it like you use gas. You'll leave your house daily w/ 225 miles.
Charging comes in 3 varieties.
120v gives 2-3 miles per hour (not very useful)
240v gives 20-40 miles per hour (miles are based on vehicle efficiency; a tesla model 3 will do 4 miles / kWh. this truck might do 2 or 2.5 miles / kWh. You should have one of these in your garage.
DC fast based on the speed of the charger as this bypasses your internal charger and directly shoots juice into your battery controlled by the external charger. Is about 10-15 times faster than lvl 2, but is vehicle dependent on what it can accept.
I love EVs; no more getting into a hot car or getting into a frozen car. No emissions in the garage. Leave home everyday fully charged if I want. Less complexity of mechanics. NO gas station visits.
Road tripping in a Tesla is no big deal but is more complex w/ non-Tesla's.
I hope this helps b/c you really do need to think about an EV differently than a gas car. They drive the same but how you manage their daily fueling is different.
This F150 is super compelling.
On another note, I believe Electrify America has a decent network of paid charging stations for non teslas, based on my recent drive from NJ to FL, there was a station every 80 to 150 miles on the way which was adaquete and has the 150kw or 350kw charging speeds so quite quick (25 min to juice up my Etron to 80% from like 10%)
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Fair enough, but that’s not going to work in a SuperCharger.neilpilot wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:43 pmActually non-Tesla EVs can now use a Tesla charging station, so long as you buy a Tesla-to-J1772 connector. They are widely available, even thru Amazon & Home Depot. https://www.homedepot.com/p/LECTRON-Tes ... /313326040TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:33 pmAFAIK, Tesla is the only proprietary charger.
Tesla and non-Tesla can charge at most chargers; only Tesla can charge at SuperChargers.
Based on my projected driving needs, I have no plans at this point to go that route.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Poppycock.
Plug it in, charge it to 100%, and drive. The battery system has an 8 year or better warranty. Sure, you can fixate on maximizing battery life and capacity, you can drive on less hills, you can coast and brake better, or you can just drive.
90% or more of EV owners plug in, charge to 100%, and drive.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Fri May 21, 2021 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Not what we see at all... maybe 15 is an average day but mileages/jobs greater than 30 really help pay the bills with these folks.nigel_ht wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:42 pmIf you gotta drive more than 30 miles to a job site...it ain't likely to be profitable vs another job closer in. I'm 23 miles from a Lowe's. I've been told "Nope, sorry, that's way too far for us" by lots of contractors.smitcat wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:07 pmWe live in Long Island NY .... and know exactly where you are....TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:57 pmWell, my contractors don’t work the way you describe. We can agree to come back in a year or two and compare notes.smitcat wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:53 pm I dont see it at all ....
- start with a full charge and set out with your enclosed trailer in tow
- drive to get materials then onsite for maybe 30-50 miles where no power is available
- use more power onsite? I dont think so
- leave during the day to do another quote and/or materials trip or food 10-20 miles more
- leave to go home with trailer in tow ....can't make it home with powere available....
ETA: we are near Boston, not out in the wilderness.
Even at 15 miles each way this will not work out untill they get greater battery range.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Schadenfreude is not commendable, but if I’m honest, I’m looking forward to Ford, VW, and other “mainstream” brands having to deal with the various myths around EVs.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:03 pmSchadenfreude is not commendable, but if I’m honest, I’m looking forward to Ford, VW, and other “mainstream” brands having to deal with the various myths around EVs.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
Correct. That things looks like it would only work for people that had both a Tesla branded charger at home, and some other EV not made by Tesla.TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:53 pmFair enough, but that’s not going to work in a SuperCharger.neilpilot wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:43 pmActually non-Tesla EVs can now use a Tesla charging station, so long as you buy a Tesla-to-J1772 connector. They are widely available, even thru Amazon & Home Depot. https://www.homedepot.com/p/LECTRON-Tes ... /313326040TomatoTomahto wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:33 pmAFAIK, Tesla is the only proprietary charger.
Tesla and non-Tesla can charge at most chargers; only Tesla can charge at SuperChargers.
Based on my projected driving needs, I have no plans at this point to go that route.
That won’t work at a Tesla SuperCharger. The SuperCharger communicates with your car, automatically bills you, etc. there is no place to tell it who you are, or swipe a credit card, etc.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Where do you get the idea this can't handle a 30 mile round trip? Assume a low efficiency of 500 Wh/mile, then 30 miles of driving will use 15 kWh. Most estimates are the battery will be at least 130 kWh, so that leaves 115 kWh left to run electrical tools at the job site. That is enough energy to run two 7.5 hp air compressors - continuously - for over 10 hours.
For reference, we have an older Model S with 235 miles of range when fully charged. My wife has been driving it on her 95 mile round trip commute for almost 4 years. We charge it for around 4 hours overnight in our garage. She hasn't run out of battery yet.
- TomatoTomahto
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- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm
Re: Ford Lightning EV
If non Tesla EVs become more common, I’d consider getting one for guests. As it happens, our family and friends have only Tesla brand.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Only if you really want to optimize for battery life. If you run your battery from 100% to 0% and back everytime, you might only get 100,000 miles of useful life out of it. Similar if you supercharge all the time.njdealguy wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:46 pmSo your saying EVs shouldn't be charged past 80%? I recently leased an Audi Etron and have been charging to full every night (perhaps dont need to care since its a lease and am covered by the warranty for 3 years)clutchied wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:01 pm
You have to think about the size of the battery as flexibility. Bigger batteries charge faster, give you a bigger reserve (you should only ever be using the middle of your battery; charge to 80% and charge up when you hit 20%). It's even better to run 70/30 or 60/40. So that range you're quoting? 283 miles? You'll never use it like you use gas. You'll leave your house daily w/ 225 miles.
On another note, I believe Electrify America has a decent network of paid charging stations for non teslas, based on my recent drive from NJ to FL, there was a station every 80 to 150 miles on the way which was adaquete and has the 150kw or 350kw charging speeds so quite quick (25 min to juice up my Etron to 80% from like 10%)
Data so far suggest an average among Tesla Model S owners, depending on the exact battery pack, of 4-7% range loss over the first 60,000 miles.
https://electrek.co/2020/06/12/tesla-da ... cks-equal/
You can see in the graph at the link there is a lot of variation between users. In fact, there appears to be a lot of scatter in the data even for new cars.
I'm the type of person who if I owned an EV would spend some effort on managing state of charge for longer battery life, but I would not try to extract every Joule of potential from it. Most drivers won't care.
If your lease contract doesn't have a charge or credit for remaining battery capacity at the end of the lease, there's no financial incentive for you to bother.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
It was a huge letdown seeing that big iPad on the console. I do not like that trend, especially from a safety standpoint.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
I don't mean to sound rude, but this is a global statement made on the basis of extremely local observation. I'm willing to believe that it is true within 50 miles of your home. (Please give your state and county.) But there are hundreds of public charging stations within 50 miles of my home, in VHCOL northern Bergen County NJ. That doesn't help you, but my point is that the entire country cannot make plans based on your (accurate?) personal observations.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:57 am There are virtually no chargers anywhere else except auto dealers. Try going to the Toyota dealer and asking to charge your F-150. For that matter, try going to your Ford dealer and asking to charge your F-150. My Ford dealer's chargers are always tied up with his for sale vehicles, and if not charging they still block the chargers.
My Township Committee is, generally, opposed to Federal regulations allowing widespread installation of charging stations available to the public. They are fearful that (I suppose ... ) the urban marauders many suburbanites fear will travel over the George Washington Bridge to break into our suburban fortresses, recharge their cars, and steal our flat screen TVs (or something.) If you oppose public charging stations, then EVs will remain hard to use!
Because I am retired, and rarely drive more than 50 miles per day, I have no problem charging my 2021 Chevy Bolt 99% in my garage, at home, about once a week. My longest regular trip is to Philadelphia, 105 miles, which my Chevy Bolt can do RT, easily, without recharging. But there are multiple FREE chargers in (paid) parking garages in Philadelphia. Perhaps you (I mean, RickBoglehead) consider paid parking to be a sin against American free choice. (speculation, sorry if I offend you.)
The point is that your personal experience does not apply to every potential EV buyer across the USA. EVs are not for everyone. You should not buy one if it works poorly for your current lifestyle.
- RickBoglehead
- Posts: 7877
- Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:10 am
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
I own a PHEV, have for 3 years. I drove it from Michigan, where I live, to South Carolina. Traveled major highways. Stayed at a major hotel chain in South Carolina. It had 2 chargers. They hadn't been used in years, the network they were on had been bought out, and one turned out to be broken. Hotel got one working after a few hours and lots of phone calls. They said "no one had asked to use them in years".crefwatch wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 6:11 pmI don't mean to sound rude, but this is a global statement made on the basis of extremely local observation. I'm willing to believe that it is true within 50 miles of your home. (Please give your state and county.) But there are hundreds of public charging stations within 50 miles of my home, in VHCOL northern Bergen County NJ. That doesn't help you, but my point is that the entire country cannot make plans based on your (accurate?) personal observations.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:57 am There are virtually no chargers anywhere else except auto dealers. Try going to the Toyota dealer and asking to charge your F-150. For that matter, try going to your Ford dealer and asking to charge your F-150. My Ford dealer's chargers are always tied up with his for sale vehicles, and if not charging they still block the chargers.
My Township Committee is, generally, opposed to Federal regulations allowing widespread installation of charging stations available to the public. They are fearful that (I suppose ... ) the urban marauders many suburbanites fear will travel over the George Washington Bridge to break into our suburban fortresses, recharge their cars, and steal our flat screen TVs (or something.) If you oppose public charging stations, then EVs will remain hard to use!
Because I am retired, and rarely drive more than 50 miles per day, I have no problem charging my 2021 Chevy Bolt 99% in my garage, at home, about once a week. My longest regular trip is to Philadelphia, 105 miles, which my Chevy Bolt can do RT, easily, without recharging. But there are multiple FREE chargers in (paid) parking garages in Philadelphia. Perhaps you (I mean, RickBoglehead) consider paid parking to be a sin against American free choice. (speculation, sorry if I offend you.)
You selectively picked that paragraph. Read the one above it that you didn't copy, where I talked about the parking garages having them...
The point is that your personal experience does not apply to every potential EV buyer across the USA. EVs are not for everyone. You should not buy one if it works poorly for your current lifestyle.
On the route, we didn't see any. Of course with my PHEV I can travel on gas just fine.
Sure, metro NY/NY and to Philly you can find chargers. Are you saying that if you're on a trip you're going to pay to sit in a parking garage and charge your vehicle? How many are at the rest areas along the route? And if it has some, how many are on the route from NJ to say Florida? How many in CT once you're say an hour west of NYC?
I'm a big advocate of electric. We had a hybrid for 9 years. We'll buy either hybrid or EV for our next vehicle. But there needs to be a lot more charging network built.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
On a trip you shouldn't need to "look" for a charger or pay to charge in a parking garage. There are several apps that will point you to chargers, and including specific info on each location (plug type(s), cost, maintenance issues, and of course available KW).RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 6:23 pm
I own a PHEV, have for 3 years. I drove it from Michigan, where I live, to South Carolina. Traveled major highways. Stayed at a major hotel chain in South Carolina. It had 2 chargers. They hadn't been used in years, the network they were on had been bought out, and one turned out to be broken. Hotel got one working after a few hours and lots of phone calls. They said "no one had asked to use them in years".
On the route, we didn't see any. Of course with my PHEV I can travel on gas just fine.
Sure, metro NY/NY and to Philly you can find chargers. Are you saying that if you're on a trip you're going to pay to sit in a parking garage and charge your vehicle? How many are at the rest areas along the route? And if it has some, how many are on the route from NJ to say Florida? How many in CT once you're say an hour west of NYC?
I'm a big advocate of electric. We had a hybrid for 9 years. We'll buy either hybrid or EV for our next vehicle. But there needs to be a lot more charging network built.
I'm new to EVs, but like the trip planner function in the PlugShare app.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
I'm pretty sure the engineers would have considered any deleterious effects of 100% charge on battery life. If such behavior really damaged the battery, they would simply have put a limiter at 90% and called that "fully charged".RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:56 pmPoppycock.
Plug it in, charge it to 100%, and drive. The battery system has an 8 year or better warranty. Sure, you can fixate on maximizing battery life and capacity, you can drive on less hills, you can coast and brake better, or you can just drive.
90% or more of EV owners plug in, charge to 100%, and drive.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
I'm not sure if you're driving path, but we have a lot of chargers in the Raleigh / Durham area.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 6:23 pmI own a PHEV, have for 3 years. I drove it from Michigan, where I live, to South Carolina. Traveled major highways. Stayed at a major hotel chain in South Carolina. It had 2 chargers. They hadn't been used in years, the network they were on had been bought out, and one turned out to be broken. Hotel got one working after a few hours and lots of phone calls. They said "no one had asked to use them in years".crefwatch wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 6:11 pmI don't mean to sound rude, but this is a global statement made on the basis of extremely local observation. I'm willing to believe that it is true within 50 miles of your home. (Please give your state and county.) But there are hundreds of public charging stations within 50 miles of my home, in VHCOL northern Bergen County NJ. That doesn't help you, but my point is that the entire country cannot make plans based on your (accurate?) personal observations.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:57 am There are virtually no chargers anywhere else except auto dealers. Try going to the Toyota dealer and asking to charge your F-150. For that matter, try going to your Ford dealer and asking to charge your F-150. My Ford dealer's chargers are always tied up with his for sale vehicles, and if not charging they still block the chargers.
My Township Committee is, generally, opposed to Federal regulations allowing widespread installation of charging stations available to the public. They are fearful that (I suppose ... ) the urban marauders many suburbanites fear will travel over the George Washington Bridge to break into our suburban fortresses, recharge their cars, and steal our flat screen TVs (or something.) If you oppose public charging stations, then EVs will remain hard to use!
Because I am retired, and rarely drive more than 50 miles per day, I have no problem charging my 2021 Chevy Bolt 99% in my garage, at home, about once a week. My longest regular trip is to Philadelphia, 105 miles, which my Chevy Bolt can do RT, easily, without recharging. But there are multiple FREE chargers in (paid) parking garages in Philadelphia. Perhaps you (I mean, RickBoglehead) consider paid parking to be a sin against American free choice. (speculation, sorry if I offend you.)
You selectively picked that paragraph. Read the one above it that you didn't copy, where I talked about the parking garages having them...
The point is that your personal experience does not apply to every potential EV buyer across the USA. EVs are not for everyone. You should not buy one if it works poorly for your current lifestyle.
On the route, we didn't see any. Of course with my PHEV I can travel on gas just fine.
Sure, metro NY/NY and to Philly you can find chargers. Are you saying that if you're on a trip you're going to pay to sit in a parking garage and charge your vehicle? How many are at the rest areas along the route? And if it has some, how many are on the route from NJ to say Florida? How many in CT once you're say an hour west of NYC?
I'm a big advocate of electric. We had a hybrid for 9 years. We'll buy either hybrid or EV for our next vehicle. But there needs to be a lot more charging network built.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Too funny. Reminds me of the BMW Engineers who designed lifetime transmission fluid. You never need to change it because it will last the lifetime of the transmission. Ahem. Think about that. Ha ha. That means the transmission will only last as long as the lifetime of the oil.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:56 pmPoppycock.
Plug it in, charge it to 100%, and drive. The battery system has an 8 year or better warranty. Sure, you can fixate on maximizing battery life and capacity, you can drive on less hills, you can coast and brake better, or you can just drive.
90% or more of EV owners plug in, charge to 100%, and drive.
Anyway, yeah, best to charge to 80% for daily driving. For Teslas anyway.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
You raise a good point. The engineers clearly say to charge to 80% for daily driving and only 100% right before road trips.hi_there wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 6:47 pmI'm pretty sure the engineers would have considered any deleterious effects of 100% charge on battery life. If such behavior really damaged the battery, they would simply have put a limiter at 90% and called that "fully charged".RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:56 pmPoppycock.
Plug it in, charge it to 100%, and drive. The battery system has an 8 year or better warranty. Sure, you can fixate on maximizing battery life and capacity, you can drive on less hills, you can coast and brake better, or you can just drive.
90% or more of EV owners plug in, charge to 100%, and drive.
But to your point, maybe the UI designers should take one out of the ‘ol Spinal Tap playbook. Have 80% say 100% and give a separate 20% called “Roadtrip Boost”.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
I went to put my 100 down last night but the website seemed broken. Question. What should I consider when it asks me to select a dealer prior to placing the deposit. I don’t have any dealership relationships and so I would just pick from random. Maybe try to pick a higher volume dealer? A closer one? I could care less about the dealer and don’t want a dealer playing sales games. Would rather just have a published price with an online configuration, place order and go pick it up.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
If all else is equal, yes, but they beef up the suspension and change to GVWR if needed to provided a useful payload.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:57 am 3) The average F-150 has an available payload of somewhere between 1,400 and 1,900 pounds, depending on trim (no, that's not a scientific number, it's my observation over years on a forum).
4) The vast majority of people have no idea what #3 means.
5) If you add 1,900 pounds of batteries to a vehicle with 1,900 pounds of available payload, you have zero. But of course you've removed a gas engine and a bunch of other stuff, so that's not a valid observation.
Full specs are not out yet. Their website currently says, "Targeted 2,000 LBS. of maximum payload capacity." Actually, since some versions of the F-150 are listed at up to 3,325 LBS payload, it seems they may already have a suitable suspension.
I don't know why they say "targeted." Maybe they're still finalizing curb weights.
The engineers are aware of it. Some degree of what is called "overprovisioning" can be done, but manufacturers don't state how much they actually overprovision the packs.
Charging to 100%, doing deep discharges, and spending extended time periods at high states of charge does not acutely damage a battery. Rather, these practices accelerate loss of capacity and increase in internal resistance. You should still get a fairly long life from a battery pack without any conscious effort to do things that reduce aging and cycle-related capacity loss. You can get even more with some effort to actively manage the state of charge (which I think in Tesla's case, can be done from a phone or computer).
Re: Ford Lightning EV
If battery health is important to you then no you shouldn't.njdealguy wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:46 pmSo your saying EVs shouldn't be charged past 80%? I recently leased an Audi Etron and have been charging to full every night (perhaps dont need to care since its a lease and am covered by the warranty for 3 years)clutchied wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:01 pmYou should go do some research b/c owning an EV is a paradigm shift in how you drive and think about a car.FootballFan5548 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 am I'm new to the electric vehicle world, but interested in buying a truck (most likely an F150) in the next 6-12 months.
Quick question on the charging... how long does it take to fully charge or charge something halfway?
If you have 283 mile range, and are on the road running low, how long as you stopped waiting to get the charge up enough to get back home?
I'll give a couple of pointers b/c it can take awhile to find some of this info:
You have to think about the size of the battery as flexibility. Bigger batteries charge faster, give you a bigger reserve (you should only ever be using the middle of your battery; charge to 80% and charge up when you hit 20%). It's even better to run 70/30 or 60/40. So that range you're quoting? 283 miles? You'll never use it like you use gas. You'll leave your house daily w/ 225 miles.
Charging comes in 3 varieties.
120v gives 2-3 miles per hour (not very useful)
240v gives 20-40 miles per hour (miles are based on vehicle efficiency; a tesla model 3 will do 4 miles / kWh. this truck might do 2 or 2.5 miles / kWh. You should have one of these in your garage.
DC fast based on the speed of the charger as this bypasses your internal charger and directly shoots juice into your battery controlled by the external charger. Is about 10-15 times faster than lvl 2, but is vehicle dependent on what it can accept.
I love EVs; no more getting into a hot car or getting into a frozen car. No emissions in the garage. Leave home everyday fully charged if I want. Less complexity of mechanics. NO gas station visits.
Road tripping in a Tesla is no big deal but is more complex w/ non-Tesla's.
I hope this helps b/c you really do need to think about an EV differently than a gas car. They drive the same but how you manage their daily fueling is different.
This F150 is super compelling.
On another note, I believe Electrify America has a decent network of paid charging stations for non teslas, based on my recent drive from NJ to FL, there was a station every 80 to 150 miles on the way which was adaquete and has the 150kw or 350kw charging speeds so quite quick (25 min to juice up my Etron to 80% from like 10%)
BUT different manufacturers handle batteries differently. Audi hides some from you so they enforce that cushion without your knowledge.
It's just best practice, some follow some don't. I do.
As far as the charging network. Yes, they are getting there but if you want seamless and reliable interstate travel Tesla currently owns that and is unmatched.
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Re: Ford Lightning EV
Some manufacturers are designing their EVs with reserve battery capacity just for this very reason. So even if you charge to 100%, there’s still some “space” left to protect the battery chemistry (or however you describe it).FoolStreet wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 7:38 pmYou raise a good point. The engineers clearly say to charge to 80% for daily driving and only 100% right before road trips.hi_there wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 6:47 pmI'm pretty sure the engineers would have considered any deleterious effects of 100% charge on battery life. If such behavior really damaged the battery, they would simply have put a limiter at 90% and called that "fully charged".RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:56 pmPoppycock.
Plug it in, charge it to 100%, and drive. The battery system has an 8 year or better warranty. Sure, you can fixate on maximizing battery life and capacity, you can drive on less hills, you can coast and brake better, or you can just drive.
90% or more of EV owners plug in, charge to 100%, and drive.
But to your point, maybe the UI designers should take one out of the ‘ol Spinal Tap playbook. Have 80% say 100% and give a separate 20% called “Roadtrip Boost”.
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- Posts: 1730
- Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
- Location: West Coast
Re: Ford Lightning EV
While I agree with you that it’s not safe to be glancing at the console, the reality is much worse: everyone is on their cell phones. Everywhere I drive, and even sitting at my office window, I see cars being driven by people with their faces staring down at their cell phones for very long periods of time. People just don’t care.
I wish insurance companies could find ways to give very heavy discounts to people who keep their eyes on the road, while putting the higher premiums on distracted drivers.
Re: Ford Lightning EV
I picked the closest. Since it would be a special build I assume it's MSRP...especially for this thing.FoolStreet wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 7:44 pmI went to put my 100 down last night but the website seemed broken. Question. What should I consider when it asks me to select a dealer prior to placing the deposit. I don’t have any dealership relationships and so I would just pick from random. Maybe try to pick a higher volume dealer? A closer one? I could care less about the dealer and don’t want a dealer playing sales games. Would rather just have a published price with an online configuration, place order and go pick it up.