Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

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bertilak
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by bertilak »

FandangoDave5010 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:27 pm This spring the RDX was totaled when the adaptive cruise control failed to brake in time. Driver error? Radar/cruise control malfunction? No answer to that.
My 2017 VW Passat's adaptive cruise control will NOT stop the car. It does give a big red warning that says something like "Apply Brakes NOW!" (I've only seen it once so don't remember exactly.)
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by carminered2019 »

during accumulation phase(20-50 Yo) we drove Hondas. In retirement we drive Porsche 911 and Lexus and only buy with money from market gains above our fixed number.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by smectym »

carminered2019 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:53 pm during accumulation phase(20-50 Yo) we drove Hondas. In retirement we drive Porsche 911 and Lexus and only buy with money from market gains above our fixed number.
Somehow I’m driving a Honda Civic. We wanted an Accord, but the supply chain shortage thing was in its early days, so no Accord in our preferred configuration was available.
Actually, the Civic is a pretty good car. But spouse has the Acura RDX
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by AerialWombat »

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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by carminered2019 »

smectym wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:00 am
carminered2019 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:53 pm during accumulation phase(20-50 Yo) we drove Hondas. In retirement we drive Porsche 911 and Lexus and only buy with money from market gains above our fixed number.
Somehow I’m driving a Honda Civic. We wanted an Accord, but the supply chain shortage thing was in its early days, so no Accord in our preferred configuration was available.
Actually, the Civic is a pretty good car. But spouse has the Acura RDX
Civics and Accords are super reliable.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by HomerJ »

I bought a new Honda Civic, and it seems pretty luxurious compared to my old Honda Civic.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by chazas »

I drive an inherited Honda Accord years into adulthood. My first new car was a BMW 318i - I loved that car! People were all impressed but in reality it was a stripped down gokart. Next car was a Honda CRV. Then an Infiniti SUV. Then an Audi S4 which I love driving. It’s 7 years old now, got a few more good years. I expect my next car will be a bit more modest.

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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by mrjohnanderson007 »

At 30 years old I switched from the "Luxury" mindset and went to economy/practical. I picked up new Focus Hatchback in 2018 for 15k and love it. I get in a vehicle, set the cruise, turn on an audiobook or podcast, and stare out the front window. So basically 99% of the time I can't remember or tell what kind of vehicle I'm even in anyways. Repairs and maintenance are cheaper ($20 oil change), insurance is cheaper or same, state license tabs are cheaper, don't have to obsess or fix door dings, don't have to worry about sticking out for theft or personally being targeted. I bought an extra set of rims for $100 and have a set of winter tires. With that setup it's better than an AWD vehicle with highway tires, aka Subaru Impreza (had one of those).
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by dsmclone »

Not all luxury is created equal. Some BMW's use powertrains in some of their vehicles that are rock solid and proven, other BMW's are not reliable. Same for every other manufacture. We're in a crazy time right now so all the rules are thrown out the window but a few years ago I was able to buy a CPO Infiniti M56 that had a MSRP of $70k+ and with less than 20k miles and a long warranty got it for 1/2 off. When I compared it to the new options in the $35k range, it was a no brainer for me.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by SQRT »

Got my first luxury car (BMW X5) when I was 50. This was right around the time I became FI. Been buying BMW’s ever since. I’ve bought several X5’s, X3’s, 3 series, M5’s, one M6, and an X3M. I like em.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by iamblessed »

No plans to. I know a guy worth 7 million driving a Ford Fusion. If that is good enough for him to should be good enough for me.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Carguy85 »

It seems the marginal utility of “luxury” is becoming more and more of a stretch to rationalize...remember when only loaded out cars had back up cameras. The gap seems to have narrowed considerably between ordinary and luxury. I was blown away by how advanced even a new low optioned Corolla was when I had it as a loaner. How much more does a “luxury” car really offer over that these days other than branding? Of course there will always be ways to help people unload their excess cash... seems these days it’s more perceived luxury/marketing than anything. We drive new dinosaurs though so what do I know about luxury..(late model tundra and sequoia) However, a sibling has to get the latest/greatest tech loaded out whatever and I’m not impressed....and I’m a car guy.
Last edited by Carguy85 on Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by SQRT »

iamblessed wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:08 am No plans to. I know a guy worth 7 million driving a Ford Fusion. If that is good enough for him to should be good enough for me.
Why would that be? I buy cars I like and can afford. I don’t care what other people do. I have friends with Ferraris but that doesn’t make me go out and buy one, even though I could afford it.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Wellfleet »

We switched for the most recent car. A CPO Lexus was cheaper than a Toyota 4Runner with the options we wanted (May 2020).
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Kagord »

iamblessed wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:08 am No plans to. I know a guy worth 7 million driving a Ford Fusion. If that is good enough for him to should be good enough for me.
I think he could go a little higher, as you should not spend more the 0.5% of net worth (excluding your home equity) on a vehicle. So that's a $35K ceiling (out the door cost I'm talking), so a high end Camry or Buick is more appropriate. Once he get's to $10-15M, maybe a BMW.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Wellfleet »

Kagord wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:26 am
I think he could go a little higher, as you should not spend more the 0.5% of net worth (excluding your home equity) on a vehicle. So that's a $35K ceiling (out the door cost I'm talking), so a high end Camry or Buick is more appropriate.
Where/what is the 0.5% net worth rule of thumb based on?
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Californiastate »

carminered2019 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:53 pm during accumulation phase(20-50 Yo) we drove Hondas. In retirement we drive Porsche 911 and Lexus and only buy with money from market gains above our fixed number.
That sounds like a practical way to build and enjoy one's wealth.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Kagord »

Wellfleet wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:29 am
Kagord wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:26 am
I think he could go a little higher, as you should not spend more the 0.5% of net worth (excluding your home equity) on a vehicle. So that's a $35K ceiling (out the door cost I'm talking), so a high end Camry or Buick is more appropriate.
Where/what is the 0.5% net worth rule of thumb based on?
My, I'm quite sure minority, opinion of capital preservation, taking into account the buying of a depreciating asset (well I guess COVID might redefine this) and economic utility it provides.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by stoptothink »

Carguy85 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:18 am It seems the marginal utility of “luxury” is becoming more and more of a stretch to rationalize...remember when only loaded out cars had back up cameras. The gap seems to have narrowed considerably between ordinary and luxury. I was blown away by how advanced even a new low optioned Corolla was when I had it as a loaner. How much more does a “luxury” car really offer over that these days other than branding? Of course there will always be ways to help people unload their excess cash... seems these days it’s more perceived luxury/marketing than anything. We drive new dinosaurs though so what do I know about luxury..(late model tundra and sequoia) However, a sibling has to get the latest/greatest tech loaded out whatever and I’m not impressed....and I’m a car guy.
I have to agree. We drive what may have been the cheapest car to buy new in the U.S. in 2016 (2017 VW jetta model S with no options, <$14k OTD). It has a backup camera, bluetooth connection, the seats are comfortable, nothing is manual (except the transmission, which we wanted), the stereo is decent, suspension soaks up bumps fantastically, and can accelerate faster than I ever need on a public road. It's not like I get in my brother's Porsche Turbo S or E63 wagon and am blown away by the difference, on a public road. They're nice, but I'm not sure using them for my trips to the grocery store is improving my QOL at all, let alone enough to justify the $80k+ price difference. Regardless of how easily we can afford it, I have a hard time thinking about how many family vacations (or something else that quantifiably improves our QOL) that would buy. Definitely a car guy too.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by bertilak »

Carguy85 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:18 am It seems the marginal utility of “luxury” is becoming more and more of a stretch to rationalize...remember when only loaded out cars had back up cameras. The gap seems to have narrowed considerably between ordinary and luxury. I was blown away by how advanced even a new low optioned Corolla was when I had it as a loaner. How much more does a “luxury” car really offer over that these days other than branding? Of course there will always be ways to help people unload their excess cash... seems these days it’s more perceived luxury/marketing than anything. We drive new dinosaurs though so what do I know about luxury..(late model tundra and sequoia) However, a sibling has to get the latest/greatest tech loaded out whatever and I’m not impressed....and I’m a car guy.
What about climate control? This is where you set the temperature (say 74%F). AC vs heat vs fan are managed automatically. No need to fiddle with the controls.

Last time I bought a car (VW Passat) I had to go up a trim level or 2 to get that capability.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by JackoC »

Wellfleet wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:29 am
Kagord wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:26 am
I think he could go a little higher, as you should not spend more the 0.5% of net worth (excluding your home equity) on a vehicle. So that's a $35K ceiling (out the door cost I'm talking), so a high end Camry or Buick is more appropriate.
Where/what is the 0.5% net worth rule of thumb based on?
I assume it's a joke, but you never know on this forum. :happy Somebody is retired, the years left to fully enjoy the things they like now visibly dwindling, has $7mil and shouldn't buy (even a pretty expensive say $80-100k+) BMW *if they want one*: ree-diculous, IMO. Note at risk of redundancy, *if they want one*, I'm not saying 'everyone with $7mil must buy an expensive car' which is often how the statement gets misread, with either very poor reading comprehension or deliberately, I'm not sure which.
Last edited by JackoC on Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by stoptothink »

bertilak wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:03 am
Carguy85 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:18 am It seems the marginal utility of “luxury” is becoming more and more of a stretch to rationalize...remember when only loaded out cars had back up cameras. The gap seems to have narrowed considerably between ordinary and luxury. I was blown away by how advanced even a new low optioned Corolla was when I had it as a loaner. How much more does a “luxury” car really offer over that these days other than branding? Of course there will always be ways to help people unload their excess cash... seems these days it’s more perceived luxury/marketing than anything. We drive new dinosaurs though so what do I know about luxury..(late model tundra and sequoia) However, a sibling has to get the latest/greatest tech loaded out whatever and I’m not impressed....and I’m a car guy.
What about climate control? This is where you set the temperature (say 74%F). AC vs heat vs fan are managed automatically. No need to fiddle with the controls.

Last time I bought a car (VW Passat) I had to go up a trim level or 2 to get that capability.
Even if you had to go up trim levels, a passat is still not a "luxury" vehicle. You can get climate control (or heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheel, adaptive cruise control, etc.) in countless number of "economy" vehicles.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by bertilak »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:09 am Even if you had to go up trim levels, a passat is still not a "luxury" vehicle. You can get climate control (or heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheel, adaptive cruise control, etc.) in countless number of "economy" vehicles.
That's why I said above my NEXT car will be that step up.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Dottie57 »

My newest car is closest to luxury - Toyota Camry XLE with “leather” seats. XLE because of all the new safety features including backup camera. Nice car - rides well. And I paid cash!
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by JackoC »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:09 am
bertilak wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:03 am
Carguy85 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:18 am It seems the marginal utility of “luxury” is becoming more and more of a stretch to rationalize...remember when only loaded out cars had back up cameras. The gap seems to have narrowed considerably between ordinary and luxury. I was blown away by how advanced even a new low optioned Corolla was when I had it as a loaner. How much more does a “luxury” car really offer over that these days other than branding? Of course there will always be ways to help people unload their excess cash... seems these days it’s more perceived luxury/marketing than anything. We drive new dinosaurs though so what do I know about luxury..(late model tundra and sequoia) However, a sibling has to get the latest/greatest tech loaded out whatever and I’m not impressed....and I’m a car guy.
What about climate control? This is where you set the temperature (say 74%F). AC vs heat vs fan are managed automatically. No need to fiddle with the controls.
Last time I bought a car (VW Passat) I had to go up a trim level or 2 to get that capability.
Even if you had to go up trim levels, a passat is still not a "luxury" vehicle. You can get climate control (or heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheel, adaptive cruise control, etc.) in countless number of "economy" vehicles.
I agree and that can even be inverted, ie. stuff that comes standard, or de facto standard (in terms of almost all the cars the dealers have in inventory) on mass market models won't be standard or de factor standard on high end brands. Like advanced safety stuff in some cases, for example Porsche has an automatic braking system but it's neither standard nor often seen on various models in inventory, but de facto standard now on some mass market brands. Or the stuff (creature comfort or safety) is just on the great majority of cars, stuff in those general categories you have to go to 'luxury brand' to get is unusual nowadays AFAIK.

But, this is not true IMO in general about performance, definitely not go fast/cornering sense, and quiet/smooth can differ too though not as much. And those saying they are 'car people' but 'who cares what a Porsche 911 Turbo S can do?' are at least a different type of 'car people' than I am. I don't have that car, the size isn't practical for our main use of our nicer car, very long road trips. We concluded our BMW M2 was not really big enough for that, too much stacking of our stuff in the back seat etc. so I sold it (used prices for it quite good). Replacement could possibly be a Macan GTS or Turbo, still thinking about it. That's pure preference, it's just trying to win arguments with insults IMO to claim that buying the Macan would be 'perceived marketing' etc. Few people we know ever saw our M2, parked in urban garage building. And if a car would actually make us a target of crime or harassment I would not get it, but in my experience literally all over the country (in the kind of places we like to go) not true of the M2, and I don't think it would be of a Macan. 'The Jones' or 'being a target' are zero factors in my conscious thinking about it (though people can always psychoanalyze you over the internet, that highly scientific practice :happy ). Minor creature comforts are a non factor because indeed you can get those on almost any car now. Advanced safety equipment is somewhat a factor (ideally I'd like to have them all). Performance is the driving factor toward more expensive car, for me.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by SQRT »

JackoC wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:34 am Minor creature comforts are a non factor because indeed you can get those on almost any car now. Advanced safety equipment is somewhat a factor (ideally I'd like to have them all). Performance is the driving factor toward more expensive car, for me.
Likewise, for me it’s all about “sportiness” ie performance. Hence the disposition towards BMW M cars. I outsmarted myself recently though. I got a X3M performance without a test drive and it’s actually too sporty for this 71 year old. Suspension too firm, bouncy ride. I actually like my wife’s M 4.0 X3 better. Go figure.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by stoptothink »

JackoC wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:34 am

But, this is not true IMO in general about performance, definitely not go fast/cornering sense, and quiet/smooth can differ too though not as much. And those saying they are 'car people' but 'who cares what a Porsche 911 Turbo S can do?' are at least a different type of 'car people' than I am.
I spent a lot of time in my early-mid 20's racing superbikes in WERA; it's the same thing with sports cars as it is with 180hp sportbikes - IMO, it's not fun on a public street. In fact, IMO the harsh ride and peaky powerbands of sports cars may make every day driving less enjoyable. I don't care what a Porsche Turbo S can do performance-wise, on a public road (and how many owners of them ever track them? Pretty much none of the ones I know, including both my brothers). My 150hp jetta can accelerate or corner faster than I ever need (or really want) to in any situation, not on a track.

I'm a "car guy" in that I constantly read about them, I am on online car forums, I can tell you everything about them (I know way more about my brother's cars then they do), I've watched every Top Gear episode twice, I work on them, I play with RC cars, but I have no interest in driving at a higher level of performance than even most modern economy cars are capable of on a normal public road. I've never been driving down the street and suddenly thought to myself that it would be nice to go from 60-120 in a few seconds or that maybe I should hit that next turn at twice the posted speed limit - performance beyond a certain baseline threshold just makes no difference to me unless I'm on a track. I'd be far more likely to get a track toy than spend $60k+ on something I drive on a daily basis.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by JackoC »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:54 am
JackoC wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:34 am

But, this is not true IMO in general about performance, definitely not go fast/cornering sense, and quiet/smooth can differ too though not as much. And those saying they are 'car people' but 'who cares what a Porsche 911 Turbo S can do?' are at least a different type of 'car people' than I am.
I spent a lot of time in my early-mid 20's racing superbikes in WERA; it's the same thing with sports cars as it is with 180hp sportbikes - IMO, it's not fun on a public street. In fact, IMO the harsh ride and peaky powerbands of sports cars may make every day driving less enjoyable. I don't care what a Porsche Turbo S can do performance-wise, on a public road (and how many owners of them ever track them? Pretty much none of the ones I know, including both my brothers). My 150hp jetta can accelerate or corner faster than I ever need (or really want) to in any situation, not on a track.

I'm a "car guy" in that I constantly read about them, I am on online car forums, I can tell you everything about them (I know way more about my brother's cars then they do), I've watched every Top Gear episode twice, I work on them, I play with RC cars, but I have no interest in driving at a higher level of performance than even most economy cars on a normal public road. I've never been driving down the street and suddenly thought to myself that it would be nice to go from 60-120 in a few seconds or that maybe I should hit that next turn at twice the posted speed limit. I'd be far more likely to get a track toy than spend $60k+ on something I drive on a daily basis.
So like I said, different kind than me. :happy And for the 911 Turbo S, besides it being too small for my purposes as I said, OK the proportion of usable performance anywhere on roads might be a factor. But that's not $60k+, that's $200k+. My M2 was $60k and I floored it not rarely passing people quickly as possible on two lane roads anywhere/everywhere in the country, also used its cornering performance within a safe margin of the max on very tightly curved mountain roads which is that car's sweet spot IMO, not a lot of other cars are *much* better at that. No excess performance in that car, to me, and wouldn't necessarily be in cars somewhat more expensive. If it was just driving to work in traffic there would be, but that wasn't its mission. Also on harshness, the M2 was something of an attempt by BMW at a hardcore analog throwback, including fixed quite firm suspension settings. More expensive modern performance cars get around that with active suspensions so livability isn't necessarily compromised in 'normal' driving.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Carguy85 »

My other car is a street rod with a 496 (8.1 liters for you metric guys) that makes north of 750hp (has been on engine dyno) in a 2500lb package. Full tube chassis, 5 point harnesses, etc... yes the vast vast majority of the the store bought stuff doesn’t really impress me much. :D. Looking to do a factory five Daytona coupe before I die vs buying a c7 zo6... (I can’t get over not having 3 pedals in a c8)
Last edited by Carguy85 on Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by stoptothink »

JackoC wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:10 am
stoptothink wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:54 am
JackoC wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:34 am

But, this is not true IMO in general about performance, definitely not go fast/cornering sense, and quiet/smooth can differ too though not as much. And those saying they are 'car people' but 'who cares what a Porsche 911 Turbo S can do?' are at least a different type of 'car people' than I am.
I spent a lot of time in my early-mid 20's racing superbikes in WERA; it's the same thing with sports cars as it is with 180hp sportbikes - IMO, it's not fun on a public street. In fact, IMO the harsh ride and peaky powerbands of sports cars may make every day driving less enjoyable. I don't care what a Porsche Turbo S can do performance-wise, on a public road (and how many owners of them ever track them? Pretty much none of the ones I know, including both my brothers). My 150hp jetta can accelerate or corner faster than I ever need (or really want) to in any situation, not on a track.

I'm a "car guy" in that I constantly read about them, I am on online car forums, I can tell you everything about them (I know way more about my brother's cars then they do), I've watched every Top Gear episode twice, I work on them, I play with RC cars, but I have no interest in driving at a higher level of performance than even most economy cars on a normal public road. I've never been driving down the street and suddenly thought to myself that it would be nice to go from 60-120 in a few seconds or that maybe I should hit that next turn at twice the posted speed limit. I'd be far more likely to get a track toy than spend $60k+ on something I drive on a daily basis.
So like I said, different kind than me. :happy And for the 911 Turbo S, besides it being too small for my purposes as I said, OK the proportion of usable performance anywhere on roads might be a factor. But that's not $60k+, that's $200k+. My M2 was $60k and I floored it not rarely passing people quickly as possible on two lane roads anywhere/everywhere in the country, also used its cornering performance within a safe margin of the max on very tightly curved mountain roads which is that car's sweet spot IMO, not a lot of other cars are *much* better at that. No excess performance in that car, to me, and wouldn't necessarily be in cars somewhat more expensive. If it was just driving to work in traffic there would be, but that wasn't its mission. Also on harshness, the M2 was something of an attempt by BMW at a hardcore analog throwback, including fixed quite firm suspension settings. More expensive modern performance cars get around that with active suspensions so livability isn't necessarily compromised in 'normal' driving.
My car has 1/3 the power of yours and I don't know if I've ever floored it. There is nothing like the feeling of dragging your knee at 100+ on a track (granted, I gave up doing it 15yrs ago when I got married), but hitting the gas on a public two-lane road so I can pass someone for no reason or exceeding limits on a mountain road isn't my jam. Different strokes for different folks. We're all still "car guys" :sharebeer .
EnjoyIt
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by EnjoyIt »

This is not necessarily a car question.

The answer is simple on all purchases that are not necessary to survive. If it is important to you, and you can afford it while making sure your other financial goals are taken care of, then buy it. At the end of the day, there are countless unnecessary luxuries out there for purchase and I don't care how rich you are or how much money you make, there will always be more ways to spend. Since money is finite, we need to choose what we value the most. Cars are some of the most expensive luxuries we buy and for some it could preclude from other purchases or early financial independence. Again, it is what you value.

The difference between leasing a luxury car every 3 years vs buying a reliable Japanese car and keeping it for 10 years while investing the difference over 30 years for a family of two can be worth $1 million (depending on how you do the math.) This amount of cash can be life changing. This could be the difference between a comfortable retirement with social security vs one of scrimping and what most Americans do.

If there is any advice I can give is to pay cash for luxury. If you must finance, you can't afford it. Period! If you have the cash and choose to finance at a really low rate, and invest that cash, that may be reasonable. But you must have originally planned on paying cash and willing to write that check on the spot if needed to. It is far more difficult to buy a luxury when you write a check for $50k-$75k-$100k as opposed to a small deposit and agreeing to pay monthly for 3-5 years.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by stoptothink »

EnjoyIt wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:14 pm Cars are some of the most expensive luxuries we buy and for some it could preclude from other purchases or early financial independence. Again, it is what you value...

The difference between leasing a luxury car every 3 years vs buying a reliable Japanese car and keeping it for 10 years while investing the difference over 30 years for a family of two can be worth $1 million (depending on how you do the math.) This amount of cash can be life changing. This could be the difference between a comfortable retirement with social security vs one of scrimping and what most Americans do.
This is why, even as a "car guy" I have difficulty rationalizing spending more on a car than baseline to meet our needs. Ron Ronnerson said in a different thread something to the effect of "I don't understand expensive watches, but I have an easier time rationalizing a $5k watch than a luxury car..." Not only is $5k barely a trim level upgrade on a car (a jump up in class from my jetta would have been $20k, at least), but it's possible (maybe not probable) that is the only high-end watch you ever buy. You are going to buy many cars throughout your lifetime and it's hard to go from a high-end one back to an economy one. The numbers become really big, really fast, with cars. I know way more people who have serious financial problems because of cars than any other single consumer item...of course, none of them are Bogleheads.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by smitcat »

Carguy85 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:21 am My other car is a street rod with a 496 (8.1 liters for you metric guys) that makes north of 750hp (has been on engine dyno) in a 2500lb package. Full tube chassis, 5 point harnesses, etc... yes the vast vast majority of the the store bought stuff doesn’t really impress me much. :D. Looking to do a factory five Daytona coupe before I die vs buying a c7 zo6... (I can’t get over not having 3 pedals in a c8)
"My other car is a street rod with a 496 (8.1 liters for you metric guys) that makes north of 750hp (has been on engine dyno) in a 2500lb package. Full tube chassis, 5 point harnesses, etc"
Fantastic - good stuff there.

"Looking to do a factory five Daytona coupe before I die"
I had built a Cobra replica with a 454 LS6 .60 over a while back - it was really fun but very limited in some ways.

"(I can’t get over not having 3 pedals in a c8)"
I wish you could try to rethink this - these are very capable and fun cars.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Carguy85 »

Smitcat, I’ve thought about a cobra for years but with my roadster, it has to be just right temp wise or it becomes less enjoyable quickly...70-80 deg...Was thinking at least a coupe could have hvac and not be a big deal getting caught in the rain. I’ve also never seen a Daytona on the street before unlike countless cobras. The C8’s have grown on me significantly but for a car like that I need to be shifting gears. Honestly though my brothers C7 manual wasn’t all that fun more than for a daily. I do see how the dual clutch trans would be excellent on the track...I have never been on a road course(nothing close by) but imagine how awesome that would be. All is well though.. I’ve found that without having built what I’m driving, it gets old too quick. For a daily like our yoters it obviously doesn’t matter. Interesting thinking back saying “hmm...that makes sense” after listening to a few podcasts on dopamine.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by firebirdparts »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:32 pm This is why, even as a "car guy" I have difficulty rationalizing spending more on a car than baseline to meet our needs.
I know I'm late to the conversation, but I find the more ostentatious a car is, the cheaper they are used. I started with luxury cars. Luxury cars are super cheap, and in some cases cheaper than cheap cars. Might as well enjoy them. If you want a luxury truck, now, you're gonna have to pay up. That's different.

I find picking reliable ones easy. YMMV.

For a daily, though, I prefer a "fun to drive" car rather than luxury.
This time is the same
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by 2tall4economy »

I switched from economy to sport in my 20s with a few camaros and then a Dodge Viper.

I tried luxury in late 20s with an Escalade (not true luxury at the time but I think they are now) because the viper was so brutal to drive daily for a tall person. I dumped the viper and kept the Escalade. Then dumped that and transitioned to fast big cars, with a 300c and a sts-v.

But still I wouldn’t say those were really, really luxury (which to me back then was really only German 3)

I actually moved to luxury in my 40s for the first time, grabbing a s class coupe when I got back to the us from living without a car overseas for years. In large part to see what all the fuss was about.

Was incredibly luxurious. But didn’t do much for me excitement wise. Between that and social pressure (nicest car in the executive lot - including the ceos car) I got rid of it fairly quickly and took a huge bath on it. Worst in my life.

After a wrangler and a pickup truck I relocated to a major city and didn’t like driving the truck in traffic so bought my first used car ever (I should have done it much sooner!).

It was an audi rs5 which I would argue was luxury and was supposed to be performance. But the problem was it wasn’t exactly fast and it wasn’t luxurious (sport tuned suspension).

I kept it literally 30 days. Lost almost nothing on it though.

Ended up getting a used Bentley gt convertible. Huge power, good performance, extremely luxurious (though s class was better), somewhat exotic (way more than s class).

At the time I said if you were only going to own 1 car, it was the one. Awd. Convertible. Luxury. Power. Did all things well.

But while I owned it, I ended up driving brand new bmws the whole time… because I bought the extended warranty from a bmw dealer and it was always in the shop.

From that experience I learned I have exactly zero interest in bmws of all shapes and sizes and they do nothing for me

Approx $30k of repairs in that first year.

…and that’s the reason buying used isn’t always so great. But still probably better than buying new.

From there I decided I could afford to have two+ cars that excelled in their areas and not own just the one, and I came up with my 10% or elsss of net worth; which is to say I can own hundreds of cars but total net worth value should never exceed 10%.

I currently have a used ferrari and a hellcat challenger for daily driving. Hellcat is very comfy and has lots of new tech and electronic aids but is not luxurious. Punching the accelerator always makes me smile. And the Ferrari gets taken when I want to enjoy the experience of driving on a nice day with the top down rowing the gears…

All of which I guess, is to say, I’ve tried almost everything out there of consequence or at least enough data points to have a good sense, and despite playing around in the luxury space frequently I find I prefer performance as primary and comfort as secondary. So the two German cars I’ve owned (three of you count the Bentley) are likely to be the only ones.

….but there is a part of me that wants to get a rolls Royce someday, since it’s supposed to be the absolute top dog. I spend 6 hours in a car about 1 day per month and can only imagine how nice it would be to spend those six hours in a rolls (and yes, the fact it’s basically a tatted up bmw, and bmws do nothing for me, is not lost on me)
You can do anything you want in life. The rub is that there are consequences.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by OatmealAddict »

Quick anecdote:

I'm 39, a bit of a car guy, and have had nearly a dozen vehicles since I started driving - many of them new.

I started with a 1995 Mitsubishi Mirage that had obviously been salvaged - it was rusted out and had well over 200k miles. It broke down monthly and scarred me for life. I dreaded coasting over to the side of the interstate and calling my parents to come get me, which was a frequent occurence.

Fast forward 20+ years and after owning various luxury vehicles, including Mercedes and Audis, while I loved those vehicles for their performance and fit & finish, I became oddly obsessive about keeping them in pristine condition, to the point that I distinctly recall thinking to myself how overbearing it is to keep these cars in tip-top shape. I'll never forget the multi-day paint correction process I had to undertake when my parents sprinkler system got my Audi A4 and then the sun baked the mineral deposits in. It was awful. Worse, no one really understood my frustration, which made me feel even more ridiculous.

Fast forward yet again, and here I am with a 2021 Subaru Outback Touring XT. Never, and I mean, NEVER did I ever imagine, in a million years, that I'd be driving such a vehicle, but truth be told, I love it and seriously plan to keep it for at least a decade. It has the reliability, versatility, and creature comforts my family and I need and when my parents' sprinklers got it yet again this past Summer, I shrugged it off and smiled since it's just a Subaru and not an Audi.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by smitcat »

Carguy85 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:53 pm Smitcat, I’ve thought about a cobra for years but with my roadster, it has to be just right temp wise or it becomes less enjoyable quickly...70-80 deg...Was thinking at least a coupe could have hvac and not be a big deal getting caught in the rain. I’ve also never seen a Daytona on the street before unlike countless cobras. The C8’s have grown on me significantly but for a car like that I need to be shifting gears. Honestly though my brothers C7 manual wasn’t all that fun more than for a daily. I do see how the dual clutch trans would be excellent on the track...I have never been on a road course(nothing close by) but imagine how awesome that would be. All is well though.. I’ve found that without having built what I’m driving, it gets old too quick. For a daily like our yoters it obviously doesn’t matter. Interesting thinking back saying “hmm...that makes sense” after listening to a few podcasts on dopamine.
"The C8’s have grown on me significantly but for a car like that I need to be shifting gears"
You should try to drive one somewhere - the paddles are great and when autoshifting you can easily set various levels.

"I’ve thought about a cobra for years but with my roadster, it has to be just right temp wise or it becomes less enjoyable quickly...70-80 deg."
You are right - I built the Cobra in my 20's but it was limited in some ways. Both the Daytona and Cheeta have the ability to use AC and usable heat but the actual usage is always an issue within the build limits. And I wanted that Cobra under 2,300#'s at the time.
At this point we have likely had over 4 dozen cars and trucks and the newer cars like the C8 will outrun all of our past muscle cars easily.
Times change but cars are still fun...
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by JackoC »

EnjoyIt wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:14 pm This is not necessarily a car question.

1. The answer is simple on all purchases that are not necessary to survive. If it is important to you, and you can afford it while making sure your other financial goals are taken care of, then buy it. At the end of the day, there are countless unnecessary luxuries out there for purchase and I don't care how rich you are or how much money you make, there will always be more ways to spend. Since money is finite, we need to choose what we value the most. Cars are some of the most expensive luxuries we buy and for some it could preclude from other purchases or early financial independence. Again, it is what you value.

2. The difference between leasing a luxury car every 3 years vs buying a reliable Japanese car and keeping it for 10 years while investing the difference over 30 years for a family of two can be worth $1 million (depending on how you do the math.) This amount of cash can be life changing. This could be the difference between a comfortable retirement with social security vs one of scrimping and what most Americans do.

3. If there is any advice I can give is to pay cash for luxury. If you must finance, you can't afford it. Period! If you have the cash and choose to finance at a really low rate, and invest that cash, that may be reasonable. But you must have originally planned on paying cash and willing to write that check on the spot if needed to. It is far more difficult to buy a luxury when you write a check for $50k-$75k-$100k as opposed to a small deposit and agreeing to pay monthly for 3-5 years.
1. True it's not about one particular thing but the usually bigger thing (houses) is a recognized topic unto itself. And education might be No.2 but like houses it commonly has an element of financial investment (though to increase earning power rather than value increase of a tangible thing) plus doing things for others (if for kids or grandkids). Cars are a natural focus as a big item of pure consumption (car as literally a good investment is possible but rare). But they aren't the only consumption item you can cumulatively spend a lot on and the same general rules apply to the others.

2. Often people do that math assuming investment return expectations which are now unrealistically high IMO, but yes you could still specify a realistic scenario where car buying habits were the margin between comfortable retirement or not. Mainly depends on point 3 though I think.

3. This one is complicated by a) sometimes very attractive loan rates and/or b) sometimes lease terms more attractive than purchase terms *if* you would replace the car fairly soon either way. I've paid cash for every car I've owned, I'd choose additional cash off over a 0% loan (often the choice) and would pay back at 1-3% or whatever loan I took out to get an additional incentive as soon as allowed without penalty. But that debate, whether it's *strictly rationally financially* advantageous (*not* based on irrational behavior a loan/lease is assumed to 'cause') to borrow or lease has differing valid opinions. I do also believe though that one should have the *ability* to easily pay cash for any 'luxury' (expensive) car without lowering financial goals. And also eventually you *do* retire (if you last) and buying what you want was one of the reasons you saved, ie 'you should only ever spend 0.5% of NW on a car to preserve capital' becomes ridiculous, preserve capital for what? If this is one of the things you accumulated the capital *for*. And then by extension if you can't enjoy a given car as much when older perhaps it would be better to have bought the car before retirement and accumulated a little less capital*. There's no single answer to that among myriad values of numerous variables in different people's lives.

*which is how I feel, to some degree. I don't have deep regret about having had safe boring family cars when I was working, but we probably overdid frugality, in general.
Lucien786
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by Lucien786 »

This is a fun convo. My first ever car was a luxury car. But I felt I could stretch because I had never had a car before so my lifetime car costs were very low up to that point, I was 35 and getting married, and I had been a decently high-earning professional for 3 years. And then, the car that I actually bought was a brand new Acura. I was really into the model I bought (redesigned RDX). It's how I tend to make decisions -- I think it's an extremely versatile car that hits a lot of points well. For me, I wanted a car that could handle trips with my family, all tall people -- so comfortably fitting 5. And that we could keep for a long time, as we started our family. I honestly still get a kick out of it every time I'm around it. It's just a great car. My intention is to keep this for a long time, and that's why it was worth making it quality and versatile. It's "luxury" (although people question Acura's merit all the time), but it's universally considered the best value in the segment among all the reviewers I've heard from. I don't mind paying more as long as I'm getting value for my money -- and I think that was the case with that car.

But my situation is unique -- if I was buying 2-3 cars, and they were getting driven hard on daily commutes etc., I would necessarily have had to spread that same expense over more vehicles and would have been less invested in a particular one. I would have gotten something cheaper.

I recommend focusing on value instead of labels. Learn enough about cars to appreciate where the value comes from, and make sure to check against your own priorities. Don't buy a "performance" car if you don't care about performance (or if you care about something else more). As others have pointed out, higher-end and higher-trim cars from non-"luxury" brands have gotten very good. Overall even economy cars are more reliable and well-appointed than they used to be. Although I have an Acura, if I ended up having to buy a new daily driver I would probably go with something like a Mazda or Genesis or maybe some of the nicer Hyundai/Kia models. Those brands are putting out great cars. I'm not 100% sure how it will feel going backward from a "luxury" car . . . though I will still have the other one, after all. If my life is going really swell, maybe I'd get a BMW 5-series or something. At the higher end, I think a Mercedes E-class or AMG might be swell. But I don't expect I'll end up there, and would have to think more about whether it was worth the money even if I had the money.

I think the key thing to avoid is worrying about labels. If you know and understand why a specific BMW model is better than, say, a Genesis or a Lexus or a Honda, then great. But don't buy the badge. My rule of thumb is to really stay away from German stuff and stick to Japanese stuff. But that's just what works with my values. I don't mind buying a higher-end, "luxury" Japanese car that will actually last. If I had genuine money to waste, I would consider buying a German car. Not nearly there yet. Simply put, buying a car is one of the most expensive ways to have fun you can possibly come up with. That doesn't mean it's not fun. It's just, pound for pound . . . think of all the other ways you could spend that money to have fun. I know there are people who can casually afford a Mercedes; just not me. Note that there are lots of people (including me) who could buy one, but only a fraction of them can afford one.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by namajones »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 7:57 am In fact, used Toyota Camry's with the SE trim (not even the nicest XLE) are going for more than used BMW 3 series with the same mileage.
The cost of a car is about much more than purchase price.

For my 17-year-old Camry, my annual cost of ownership--all-in, purchase price, insurance, gas, repairs, etc.--is down to just under $2K per year. Try to top that. Somewhere I read recently that Americans' average annual cost of car ownership is running $9K.

My sister owns a Mercedes. Nice car. Every time she takes it to the shop for maintenance--even minor stuff--it's a $700 bill. What the heck?!?

I actually prefer the comfort of my Camry.

Luxury cars? Not impressed.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by bertilak »

namajones wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:21 am Luxury cars? Not impressed.
My mama told me, "you'd better shop around!"
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by delamer »

namajones wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:21 am
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 7:57 am In fact, used Toyota Camry's with the SE trim (not even the nicest XLE) are going for more than used BMW 3 series with the same mileage.
The cost of a car is about much more than purchase price.

For my 17-year-old Camry, my annual cost of ownership--all-in, purchase price, insurance, gas, repairs, etc.--is down to just under $2K per year. Try to top that. Somewhere I read recently that Americans' average annual cost of car ownership is running $9K.

My sister owns a Mercedes. Nice car. Every time she takes it to the shop for maintenance--even minor stuff--it's a $700 bill. What the heck?!?

I actually prefer the comfort of my Camry.

Luxury cars? Not impressed.
If she’s getting charged $700 for even minor stuff, then she needs to find a new mechanic.

Not all of us who own luxury cars do so to impress other people. That’s a myth that just won’t die.

But we do agree that if the differences between a Camry and an E-Class don’t matter to you, then there no reason to spend your money (upfront or ongoing) on the E-Class.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by HENRYGRUGER »

After spending 27 years in Automotive Finance, and having a company car for all those years, I BOUGHT my first new Car in 1997, when I left Ford. In 2013, I cashed out my Ford Retirement ($197/mo) and rolled it over to begin my Vanguard Adventure.

In 2020, for no good reason, I decided I would buy ONE last new vehicle. One with everything. I bought a Ram Limited Pickup. It was truly a luxury pickup truck. It had every available option, and a $72,000 Sticker. It had 4,300 miles on it, as it was the Dealership owner's Dealer Demo. I bought it for $58,200, 2-19-2020.

It was a glorious vehicle and I loved it, but with the 5.7 HEMI, the gas milage was terrible. It was glorious to drive, on longer trips, but again, expensive to fuel.

In May, 2021, with 15,000 miles on it, I sold the vehicle to a local dealer for $60,000, (used car values were/are through the roof,) and decided to buy a large SUV. I was fortunate to find a 2021 Hyundai Palisades Calligraphy model (Top of their line), because of the extreme. shortage of inventory. And, as you probably all know, dealers are adding "Additional Dealer Markup" to their hard to get vehicles. The refused to buy for the ADM, and the dealer removed the ADM Label, and for the first time in my life, I paid MSRP for a vehicle. I financed it, at 1.9% for 72 months.

29 days later, I was in an accident that totaled my new vehicle, and after screwing around with my insurance carrier for 23 days, I replaced my 2021 Palisade with a 2022 Palisade, in a color I actually preferred. In addition, I leased it, for three years, rather than buy it, because I did not want to get screwed with a 100% MSRP purchase, again.
As an aside, I was T-bones, and I did not suffer a catch. The other car was traveling one 50 mph. The Safety Ratings on these vehicles are NO JOKE. Thank you GOD!

In three years, I will replace it with a true luxury "car," because that will be when my bride and I will be celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary, and we will have a paid for "run around car", a Kia Soul, and the new Luxury Car...yet to be decided upon. Most of our serious traveling should be slowing down bye then too.

What ever it is, unless there is 0% Interest Financing available at the time, I will most likely pay cash or do a single payment lease.

I prefer new cars and warranties. I always have, but I would consider a CPO, with very low miles! The Millionaire next Door was right, but since I don't drink, smoke or waste money in other areas of my life, I simply prefer new cars.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by surfstar »

delamer wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:44 am Not all of us who own luxury cars do so to impress other people. That’s a myth that just won’t die.

But we do agree that if the differences between a Camry and an E-Class don’t matter to you, then there no reason to spend your money (upfront or ongoing) on the E-Class.
It is not a myth - it is a stereotype and they exist for a reason. Most people fall under that category. You are claiming that you're one of the outliers.
Great! Doesn't make the stereotype untrue, though.

Many people purchase things based more so on what others will perceive of their purchase, than for their actual utility. Puffy/down jackets in SoCal for a 65*F walk to Starbucks or walking your dog, for example.

Fashion > Function

My brother likes to drive used luxury cars for the image it gives off. He's not a car guy. He drives a lot of miles and would save tens of thousands of dollars in total costs if he drove a Prius. He pays for his vanity.
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by JackoC »

Lucien786 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:17 am This is a fun convo.

I recommend focusing on value instead of labels. Learn enough about cars to appreciate where the value comes from, and make sure to check against your own priorities. Don't buy a "performance" car if you don't care about performance (or if you care about something else more). As others have pointed out, higher-end and higher-trim cars from non-"luxury" brands have gotten very good. Overall even economy cars are more reliable and well-appointed than they used to be. Although I have an Acura, if I ended up having to buy a new daily driver I would probably go with something like a Mazda or Genesis or maybe some of the nicer Hyundai/Kia models. Those brands are putting out great cars. I'm not 100% sure how it will feel going backward from a "luxury" car . . . though I will still have the other one, after all. If my life is going really swell, maybe I'd get a BMW 5-series or something. At the higher end, I think a Mercedes E-class or AMG might be swell. But I don't expect I'll end up there, and would have to think more about whether it was worth the money even if I had the money.

I think the key thing to avoid is worrying about labels. If you know and understand why a specific BMW model is better than, say, a Genesis or a Lexus or a Honda, then great. But don't buy the badge.
And you can do more than one of those things with more than one car. Our Lexus is 17 yrs old, GX470 no car person's idea of sport or performance*. But over the years I've appreciated the extra quiet and comfort over 'equivalent Toyota', and the paint. The paint looks amazing at 17yrs. Somebody I know who doesn't know cars but is not dumb seriously thought it was new. Hyundai is pretty competitive with Toyota and the paint on our 9 yr old Sonata was washed out. I have a high opinion of the GX, and might well go Lexus again for a like replacement eventually (though wouldn't rule out an upper Subaru etc: you're right, they're nice too).

But for the other part of car inventory I do care about performance and I do know why I am buying the particular car for that reason. Having been disappointed in recent attempt to buy a BMW I'm thinking of trying Porsche, Macan Turbo maybe. Affordability is not an issue, and 'value for my money' will never be determined by anything other than what I think when I buy the car. It's always possible I will decide later it's not worth it. That was my verdict on my E class Mercedes, but then I was quite satisfied with my BMW 328i (son has it now) and the M2 I recently sold was a fun though quirky car (the performance, exhaust noise in 'sport' [careful not to disturb people :D ] quite a hoot, the very firm ride kind of a fun acquired taste, the car has no place in a discussion of cushy Camry vs. cushy Lexus ES, but not ideal for our multi-k mile road trips on account of space, no good for gravel or dirt roads, etc.).

*we did our annual foliage trip to West Virginia as a part of a trip to visit relatives further south with the GX, our only car for now. It's obviously not an M2 on WV mountain roads, and we avoided the steepest and twistiest ones on our usual route. But, have to say it's actually fairly competent in that situation, had never driven it in as prolonged steep windiness previously, and power to weight isn't that terrible either, you can pass trucks on two lane straightaways (with more conservatism in choosing your moments than with the M2).
delamer
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by delamer »

surfstar wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:48 am
delamer wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:44 am Not all of us who own luxury cars do so to impress other people. That’s a myth that just won’t die.

But we do agree that if the differences between a Camry and an E-Class don’t matter to you, then there no reason to spend your money (upfront or ongoing) on the E-Class.
It is not a myth - it is a stereotype and they exist for a reason. Most people fall under that category. You are claiming that you're one of the outliers.
Great! Doesn't make the stereotype untrue, though.

Many people purchase things based more so on what others will perceive of their purchase, than for their actual utility. Puffy/down jackets in SoCal for a 65*F walk to Starbucks or walking your dog, for example.

Fashion > Function

My brother likes to drive used luxury cars for the image it gives off. He's not a car guy. He drives a lot of miles and would save tens of thousands of dollars in total costs if he drove a Prius. He pays for his vanity.
Stereotypes exist for a reason? Interesting perspective. There are a lot of very negative stereotypes that exist only because they benefit one group (racial/demographic/ethnic/religious) at the expense of another group.

Anyway, I have no proof that most people buy luxury vehicles becuase they enjoy them and perceive them to have higher value than mainstream vehicles. Just like you don’t have any proof that most people buy luxury vehicles for status reasons.

That many people fall into each categoriy (and maybe a bit of both), I’ll agree to.
Last edited by delamer on Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
JackoC
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by JackoC »

surfstar wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:48 am
delamer wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:44 am Not all of us who own luxury cars do so to impress other people. That’s a myth that just won’t die.

But we do agree that if the differences between a Camry and an E-Class don’t matter to you, then there no reason to spend your money (upfront or ongoing) on the E-Class.
It is not a myth - it is a stereotype and they exist for a reason. Most people fall under that category. You are claiming that you're one of the outliers.
Great! Doesn't make the stereotype untrue, though.
I'm chuckling thinking of the world of hurt you could get yourself into in today's society applying 'stereotypes exist for a reason' to more sensitive ones. :happy

But staying with a relatively non-sensitive one like 'buying the badge' for luxury brand car buyers, the impression I have of that debate is that it's often between people who can't really afford those cars and know it, and people who can't really afford them but don't know it. And it's colored IMO sometimes by envy of people in the first category for people who *can* actually easily afford them, so needn't actually worry about their cost. Although of course some people can easily afford them and don't want them. I could make a long list of other things of similar cost that would be in that category for me (there are $2mil watches so there are probably $90k ones though typical Rolex is less[?], but I might buy a $90k Porsche, I can gtee you I'll never buy a $90k watch, other people might be the opposite, others would never spend that much on anything, despite easy affordability, then again *somebody* will spend that money on something eventually).
gubernaculum
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by gubernaculum »

I used to lease cars until I turned 45 and wanted a bigger vehicle than my infinity g37 ( loved that leased infinity by the way). An opportunity came to buy a used Audi A8, 20k miles, 2 years old for 40k and I bought it. Have been driving it for the past 5 years and it's the best car I ever owned that saved my life with their pre-collision warning system that later became standard on other cars. I currently have 85 K and will likely get an electric Audi in 2-3 years when range is 500+ miles with 20 min charging.
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riverant
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Re: Cars -- When and Why Did You Switch from Economy/Practicality to Luxury?

Post by riverant »

I'm debating this for our next purchase as well. Currently have two 8-year old SUVs - it's nice not really caring about cosmetic dings or the kids making a mess with snacks or something. However, the road noise is a bit obnoxious and on long trips, neither are overly comfortable. Financially, I think we can swing it fine, but to me, buying a luxury car will never be a trivial decision. However, IF we can get to the point of maxing out all tax advantaged space, including a mega-backdoor, and comfortably funding both 529s and putting some excess into taxable.... it seems like a reasonable purchase to consider. For now, I'm eyeing a Lexus RX and will be extra interested if they come out with an electric version over the next handful of years - No interest in European cars given the repair costs, but perhaps electric versions will change that concern eventually.
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