35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
anoop
Posts: 3930
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:33 am

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by anoop »

If you are willing to wait till later this year, the designed Lexus NX, which essentially uses the RAV4's drivetrain may be worth a look.
https://www.caranddriver.com/lexus/nx

Here's the complete list as of 2021.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g ... -vehicles/
Pretty much only the Escape and RAV4 meet the requirements.
02nz
Posts: 10508
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:17 pm

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by 02nz »

anoop wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:34 am If you are willing to wait till later this year, the designed Lexus NX, which essentially uses the RAV4's drivetrain may be worth a look.
https://www.caranddriver.com/lexus/nx

Here's the complete list as of 2021.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g ... -vehicles/
Pretty much only the Escape and RAV4 meet the requirements.
The '22 Hyundai Tucson plug-in will have 32 miles EV range, close enough for the OP's criteria:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3585 ... -revealed/

Reviews for the regular hybrid version have been extremely positive, so hopefully the PHEV will be just as good or better.
brajalle
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:03 pm

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by brajalle »

anil686 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:24 pm
alexander29 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:15 pm Consider that an all-electric EV is much more mechanically simple than a PHEV, which would in theory lower maintenance costs. No gas engine, no oil, no muffler, etc. And if camping, you can recharge from a powered campsite if you carry the right adapter.
+1 - I think most looking for a PHEV would do better with an EV from a cost perspective - clearly camping can be an issue but my business partner has a Tesla and goes off the grid hiking at national parks multiple times per year on 1000 mile road trips in his model 3 and it has not been a problem fwiw…. I have a Chevy Bolt and love mine but it is not the best for long road trips….
I don't get the multiple comments talking about how PHEVs are more costly overall than owning a BEV. It seems unlikely to be true today if you buy a PHEV that has the range to cover your work commute and shopping trips (exception - comparing it to an EV that has a very low range and thus a low price, ie 1st gen Leaf comes to mind). There is no doubt that PHEVs have extra systems and that they have all the usual gas-engine bits, but you have to remember how little the engine actually runs in that use situation - and it's actually more of a generator, it's not like you have duplicative transmissions, axles, etc. I mean, with a PHEV, you just follow the maintenance minder for the gas engine maintenance, or, like many PHEV internet people say, just do an annual oil change anyways if it doesn't pop up. There's plenty of PHEV owners whose gas engines only run for maintenance cycles most of the time (auto by computer) or for a rare road trip. So in reality, there is more to go wrong & maintain, but it's not really getting anywhere near the same wear as a traditional gas vehicle - the cost difference is potentially fairly negligible from a maintenance perspective, and you may even come out ahead in cost over the vehicles lifetime especially considering how much adding all that extra battery capacity (60-100kwh+ of additional battery is EXPENSIVE), battery cooling, etc may cost. Gasoline engines, especially from major car companies, are also a pretty developed technology - there's not alot of stuff that typically breaks on the engine, fuel system, or exhaust system with such low usage & maintenance - especially since the average car owner owns a car for less than 7 years.

For the person who mentioned the Prime's battery degradation - yeah, the Prime had such a small battery size that I quickly removed it from our list when we were looking. It was obvious with winter range degradation that it's range wouldn't even work for a 1 way trip for us at all. I don't know what else is going on with your Prime - most automakers provision the battery packs to have extra capacity that can be used as the pack degrades to keep the same range & keep wear down. I know that the Clarity owners forum has a spreadsheet from user data with a curve plotted - while variables like temperature and highway speeds affecting range, the actual battery pack is seeing a really gentle decline in overall capacity as the miles rack up (unlikely to trigger the warranty). For anyone looking for a PHEV - I'd just make sure to get a PHEV that has the range you want plus a margin to account for highway speeds, aging, and/or colder temps. Ie, our longest commute in our house and our typical shopping trips are around or less than 40miles round trip, so the Clarity with a 48-52ish EV range was perfect. The extra range was sort of a cushion in our minds. You might check your warranty, I know ours is 7yr/100k with a certain capacity being left (like 37.5amps vs a start @ 54amps) - you may be able to get a full replacement if it's under whatever Toyota says it should be.
User avatar
Topic Author
batpot
Posts: 1284
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by batpot »

Noticed that Toyota isn't even listing Rav 4 Prime on its inventory website anymore.

https://www.toyota.com/search-inventory/

Assuming there won't be anymore 2021s...
RetiredCSProf
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by RetiredCSProf »

batpot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:26 pm Noticed that Toyota isn't even listing Rav 4 Prime on its inventory website anymore.

https://www.toyota.com/search-inventory/

Assuming there won't be anymore 2021s...
Regional bias. A search of the Rav 4 Prime using my zip code shows 82 vehicles available.
surfstar
Posts: 2853
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by surfstar »

RetiredCSProf wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:31 pm
batpot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:26 pm Noticed that Toyota isn't even listing Rav 4 Prime on its inventory website anymore.

https://www.toyota.com/search-inventory/

Assuming there won't be anymore 2021s...
Regional bias. A search of the Rav 4 Prime using my zip code shows 82 vehicles available.
86 for me

OP - you need to broaden your search, as Primes are in less supply in certain states/regions. I think you can secure one at MSRP, depending on where you're at. I was able to within a week of looking back in late May / early June. (Tustin Toyota)
Others have been on waiting lists for months. It takes some effort, but in this market, is likely worth it.
kakemono
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:53 pm

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by kakemono »

I got a Rav4Prime. I looked locally to see one (the only one in my state, and none in any surrounding state) then found one online at MSRP over 1000 miles away and had it shipped for $1300. It was worth it for me.

Honestly, I have thought about taking the Federal Tax credit then selling it used for over cost and buying another one. heh.... these Rav4Primes are crazy.
User avatar
Topic Author
batpot
Posts: 1284
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by batpot »

funny, I actually did spot check a few zips...obviously not the right ones!

Gonna wait for the 2022 anyway, but probably not a bad idea to get on a list now.
anoop
Posts: 3930
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:33 am

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by anoop »

batpot wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:34 pm funny, I actually did spot check a few zips...obviously not the right ones!

Gonna wait for the 2022 anyway, but probably not a bad idea to get on a list now.
So you've decided on the RAV4? By 2022 model year, Lexus NX will be an option.
surfstar
Posts: 2853
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by surfstar »

Of note, a recent post in the Rav4 Prime forum is forecasting Toyota will have used their 200,000 EV federal tax credits by the end of 2021 at the earliest, likely carrying over into 2022 depending on how sales work out this year.

Reminder, the credit phases out starting the quarter AFTER the 200k sales number hits.
User avatar
Topic Author
batpot
Posts: 1284
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by batpot »

surfstar wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:49 pm Of note, a recent post in the Rav4 Prime forum is forecasting Toyota will have used their 200,000 EV federal tax credits by the end of 2021 at the earliest, likely carrying over into 2022 depending on how sales work out this year.

Reminder, the credit phases out starting the quarter AFTER the 200k sales number hits.
thanks, got a link to those numbers?
they only have the Prius and Rav4 right?
anoop
Posts: 3930
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:33 am

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by anoop »

batpot wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:03 pm
surfstar wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:49 pm Of note, a recent post in the Rav4 Prime forum is forecasting Toyota will have used their 200,000 EV federal tax credits by the end of 2021 at the earliest, likely carrying over into 2022 depending on how sales work out this year.

Reminder, the credit phases out starting the quarter AFTER the 200k sales number hits.
thanks, got a link to those numbers?
they only have the Prius and Rav4 right?
What about the Mirai?
surfstar
Posts: 2853
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by surfstar »

batpot wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:03 pm
surfstar wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:49 pm Of note, a recent post in the Rav4 Prime forum is forecasting Toyota will have used their 200,000 EV federal tax credits by the end of 2021 at the earliest, likely carrying over into 2022 depending on how sales work out this year.

Reminder, the credit phases out starting the quarter AFTER the 200k sales number hits.
thanks, got a link to those numbers?
they only have the Prius and Rav4 right?
Currently, I believe that's it for EV/PHEV Toyotas. Mirai is/was (still available?) fuel cell/hydrogen and had a separate incentive funding, I believe.
https://www.rav4world.com/threads/inter ... st-2886056
User avatar
CardinalRule
Posts: 1204
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:01 am
Location: United States

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by CardinalRule »

RetiredCSProf wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:31 pm
batpot wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:26 pm Noticed that Toyota isn't even listing Rav 4 Prime on its inventory website anymore.

https://www.toyota.com/search-inventory/

Assuming there won't be anymore 2021s...
Regional bias. A search of the Rav 4 Prime using my zip code shows 82 vehicles available.
That's interesting. I have been seeing no availability in my area, and until now I didn't realize that this model is more plentiful elsewhere. I just looked at zip codes in adjoining states after seeing this post.
User avatar
CardinalRule
Posts: 1204
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:01 am
Location: United States

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by CardinalRule »

The RAV4 Prime continues to have low availability and is subject to big dealer markups (and questionable add-ons like nitrogen-filled tires) from what I have read, several months later. The aforementioned Hyundai Tucson PHEV looks really interesting, but it will only be sold in 11 states. And mine isn’t one of them.

https://www.kbb.com/hyundai/tucson-plug-in-hybrid/
User avatar
Kagord
Posts: 1676
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:28 pm
Location: Peaksville, Ohio

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by Kagord »

Lexus NX 450h+, 37 EV, 550 mile total range, seems to check the boxes for an around town EV and the benefits of not having to deal with the miserable charging hassle on long trips with just an EV.

Maybe you can get one if you're patient. I'd have a hard time justifying over $55K for a compact though, but maybe the components and reliability will be better than the other competition, so it might be of value for those that hold on to their cars for a long time.
User avatar
CardinalRule
Posts: 1204
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:01 am
Location: United States

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by CardinalRule »

Kagord wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:53 am Lexus NX 450h+, 37 EV, 550 mile total range, seems to check the boxes for an around town EV and the benefits of not having to deal with the miserable charging hassle on long trips with just an EV.

Maybe you can get one if you're patient. I'd have a hard time justifying over $55K for a compact though, but maybe the components and reliability will be better than the other competition, so it might be of value for those that hold on to their cars for a long time.
In addition to its cost, I suspect that the NH 450h+ is going to have supply constraints that are similar to those of its cheaper brother, the RAV4 Prime. Looks beautiful though:

https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV

The Ford Escape would be on my list for a more reasonably priced PHEV but it lacks AWD.
TheGreyingDuke
Posts: 2219
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:34 am

Re: 35+ mile EV range in a PHEV SUV?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

Kagord wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:53 am Lexus NX 450h+, 37 EV, 550 mile total range, seems to check the boxes for an around town EV and the benefits of not having to deal with the miserable charging hassle on long trips with just an EV.
For sure there are some issues with reliable on the road charging, but I would say to globally condemn it (what has been your experience that undergrids your assessment?) is inaccurate. 350 kw equipment, 800v onboard chargers, and increased range are making the switch to an EV feasible for more and more people.
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells
Post Reply