Tiling question

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edgeagg
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Tiling question

Post by edgeagg »

I was hoping that the collective would provide some feedback on this:

1) We are redoing our master bath shower stall which has the following dimensions: 68'' (L), 42''' (W) and 94'' (H).
2) We are trying to figure out tile and the tile we like the best is the MSI Dymo White Stripe that is a 12x24 tile.
3) We don't want to lay the tile vertically - 24'' length upward.

Given the dimensions, the shower will be tiled as follows - Width = 1 full tile, 1 18 inch cut, Length = 2 full tiles + 1 18 inch length.

Aesthetically, is this a bad idea? The concern that I have is for the width, since we don't get 2 full tiles. Or should we be looking at smaller formats?
HomeStretch
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Re: Tiling question

Post by HomeStretch »

How are you running the tile? Is each row staggered (offset) or will the tiles be stacked directly in line with one another so you have 24” and 18” columns?

Consider cutting out tile sizes using white paper (with paper strips between white sheets in grout color) and taping them to your shower walls so you can see if you like the look.

Personally, I would go with a smaller tile but everyone’s aesthetics are different.
bob60014
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Re: Tiling question

Post by bob60014 »

And use the MSI visualization tool. Take a photo of the space in question and check if you can manipulate it to see what it might look like. When using the tool be sure to search for the Dymo White Stripe in the size you want.

https://www.roomvo.com/my/msi?product_t ... sualizer=1
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chickadee
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Re: Tiling question

Post by chickadee »

What looks best is to create a full tile visually as you turn the corner. So if the tile approaching the corner has only 18 inches on one side, complete it with a 6" piece on the facing wall, so that visually, you are "making" a full tile.

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edgeagg
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Re: Tiling question

Post by edgeagg »

HomeStretch wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:09 pm How are you running the tile? Is each row staggered (offset) or will the tiles be stacked directly in line with one another so you have 24” and 18” columns?

Consider cutting out tile sizes using white paper (with paper strips between white sheets in grout color) and taping them to your shower walls so you can see if you like the look.

Personally, I would go with a smaller tile but everyone’s aesthetics are different.
Thanks a lot for the comments here. The issue is that since the house was destroyed in a fire, we are in a full rebuild, but the idea of using paper to mock up seems like a great idea but will make the use of a visualizer challenging. The idea of turning, is pretty interesting, however.

We are not planning on staggering courses but rather stacking in a matrix (hope that makes sense)
kaudrey
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Re: Tiling question

Post by kaudrey »

What does staggering in a matrix mean? For the best look, you should do it like the picture posted....
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David Jay
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Re: Tiling question

Post by David Jay »

I would not "stack" a 24" long tile, with every course of the tile lined up with the course below it. It just won't look right.

I would either go with a smaller tile if you want vertical alignment or do as chickadee has illustrated with the 24" tile.
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lthenderson
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Re: Tiling question

Post by lthenderson »

edgeagg wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:41 am I was hoping that the collective would provide some feedback on this:

1) We are redoing our master bath shower stall which has the following dimensions: 68'' (L), 42''' (W) and 94'' (H).
2) We are trying to figure out tile and the tile we like the best is the MSI Dymo White Stripe that is a 12x24 tile.
3) We don't want to lay the tile vertically - 24'' length upward.

Given the dimensions, the shower will be tiled as follows - Width = 1 full tile, 1 18 inch cut, Length = 2 full tiles + 1 18 inch length.

Aesthetically, is this a bad idea? The concern that I have is for the width, since we don't get 2 full tiles. Or should we be looking at smaller formats?
Typically with such large format tiles, a running bond pattern is recommended over a stacked look. Stacked tiles can make the space seem a lot smaller than it actually is. A running bond pattern is also a much more forgiving pattern to install since the grout lines aren't lining up vertically which are the most noticeable to our eyes. Also with large format tiles, it generally looks better to continue the tile around a corner. For example, if you start off with a full tile on one of the ends, you need an 18 inch tile to fill the distance to the inside corner. Rather than turn the corner with a new tile, I use the leftover of the cut tile, in this case 6 inches and then proceed to a new tile. If you go with a stacked pattern, you are throwing away 6 inches of tile on each wall and each row so you will end up with a lot of scrap (nearly 12 sq ft of tile) that way. Not asked, I generally don't use full width for the first or last rows because the tub surrounds and ceiling are rarely level. I try to divide up the bottom and top rows so that they are even on average and then measure each tile to cut after all the other tiles have been installed. This hides any unlevel tub surrounds or ceilings more effectively. The next question I get is how to start the first row say 8 inches up off the tub surround. I will screw a level ledger board around the tub that the first row of tile can set directly on and tile up as normal from there using spacers. When you get to the top, unscrew the ledger board and fill in the first row.
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edgeagg
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Re: Tiling question

Post by edgeagg »

lthenderson wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 10:18 am
edgeagg wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:41 am I was hoping that the collective would provide some feedback on this:

1) We are redoing our master bath shower stall which has the following dimensions: 68'' (L), 42''' (W) and 94'' (H).
2) We are trying to figure out tile and the tile we like the best is the MSI Dymo White Stripe that is a 12x24 tile.
3) We don't want to lay the tile vertically - 24'' length upward.

Given the dimensions, the shower will be tiled as follows - Width = 1 full tile, 1 18 inch cut, Length = 2 full tiles + 1 18 inch length.

Aesthetically, is this a bad idea? The concern that I have is for the width, since we don't get 2 full tiles. Or should we be looking at smaller formats?
Typically with such large format tiles, a running bond pattern is recommended over a stacked look. Stacked tiles can make the space seem a lot smaller than it actually is. A running bond pattern is also a much more forgiving pattern to install since the grout lines aren't lining up vertically which are the most noticeable to our eyes. Also with large format tiles, it generally looks better to continue the tile around a corner. For example, if you start off with a full tile on one of the ends, you need an 18 inch tile to fill the distance to the inside corner. Rather than turn the corner with a new tile, I use the leftover of the cut tile, in this case 6 inches and then proceed to a new tile. If you go with a stacked pattern, you are throwing away 6 inches of tile on each wall and each row so you will end up with a lot of scrap (nearly 12 sq ft of tile) that way. Not asked, I generally don't use full width for the first or last rows because the tub surrounds and ceiling are rarely level. I try to divide up the bottom and top rows so that they are even on average and then measure each tile to cut after all the other tiles have been installed. This hides any unlevel tub surrounds or ceilings more effectively. The next question I get is how to start the first row say 8 inches up off the tub surround. I will screw a level ledger board around the tub that the first row of tile can set directly on and tile up as normal from there using spacers. When you get to the top, unscrew the ledger board and fill in the first row.
I was just about to report this post for excessive helpfullness! Thanks, that makes a lot of sense and thank you for the extended explanation.
vested1
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Re: Tiling question

Post by vested1 »

lthenderson wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 10:18 am
edgeagg wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:41 am I was hoping that the collective would provide some feedback on this:

1) We are redoing our master bath shower stall which has the following dimensions: 68'' (L), 42''' (W) and 94'' (H).
2) We are trying to figure out tile and the tile we like the best is the MSI Dymo White Stripe that is a 12x24 tile.
3) We don't want to lay the tile vertically - 24'' length upward.

Given the dimensions, the shower will be tiled as follows - Width = 1 full tile, 1 18 inch cut, Length = 2 full tiles + 1 18 inch length.

Aesthetically, is this a bad idea? The concern that I have is for the width, since we don't get 2 full tiles. Or should we be looking at smaller formats?
Typically with such large format tiles, a running bond pattern is recommended over a stacked look. Stacked tiles can make the space seem a lot smaller than it actually is. A running bond pattern is also a much more forgiving pattern to install since the grout lines aren't lining up vertically which are the most noticeable to our eyes. Also with large format tiles, it generally looks better to continue the tile around a corner. For example, if you start off with a full tile on one of the ends, you need an 18 inch tile to fill the distance to the inside corner. Rather than turn the corner with a new tile, I use the leftover of the cut tile, in this case 6 inches and then proceed to a new tile. If you go with a stacked pattern, you are throwing away 6 inches of tile on each wall and each row so you will end up with a lot of scrap (nearly 12 sq ft of tile) that way. Not asked, I generally don't use full width for the first or last rows because the tub surrounds and ceiling are rarely level. I try to divide up the bottom and top rows so that they are even on average and then measure each tile to cut after all the other tiles have been installed. This hides any unlevel tub surrounds or ceilings more effectively. The next question I get is how to start the first row say 8 inches up off the tub surround. I will screw a level ledger board around the tub that the first row of tile can set directly on and tile up as normal from there using spacers. When you get to the top, unscrew the ledger board and fill in the first row.
Excellent advice. The variance of width in the bottom and top row of horizontal tiles is especially important.

We are replacing a master shower, and expanding it while using 12" x 24" porcelain tile. The center of the new pan where the drain would normally go had a support joist below it that couldn't be compromised, so we're installing a trench drain at the base of a side wall, which due to drainage requirements needs a slightly slanted floor (1/8" drop per foot with a matching pan) in order to drain properly. Using a self-leveling laser to maintain level grout lines the first horizontal row is wider at one end than the other. The top horizontal row will have a uniform width if the ceiling is level, but will not be a full 12" x 24" tile as the tile butts up to the ceiling, with less width due to eight 1/8" horizontal grout lines. The other thing I might suggest to the OP is to have a different pattern and smaller tile for the recessed shelf if one is being installed, which will make it stand out more. We're using the same tile as the floor, which is 2" (not square) for the recessed shelf.

I would also suggest that you make sure that the grout is of the newer type with polymers that make sealing it periodically unnecessary.

Everything else that lthenderson suggested is being done. The underlayment of our new shower is Schluter with Kerdi board and is guaranteed for life not to leak into the basement below.
Mapmaker
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Re: Tiling question

Post by Mapmaker »

The picture looks like a 50% offset. When I talked to the tile guy about patterns for my new bathroom, he told me I needed to use a 33% offset on my 12x24 tiles to avoid lippage.
rich126
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Re: Tiling question

Post by rich126 »

edgeagg wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:41 am I was hoping that the collective would provide some feedback on this:

1) We are redoing our master bath shower stall which has the following dimensions: 68'' (L), 42''' (W) and 94'' (H).
2) We are trying to figure out tile and the tile we like the best is the MSI Dymo White Stripe that is a 12x24 tile.
3) We don't want to lay the tile vertically - 24'' length upward.

Given the dimensions, the shower will be tiled as follows - Width = 1 full tile, 1 18 inch cut, Length = 2 full tiles + 1 18 inch length.

Aesthetically, is this a bad idea? The concern that I have is for the width, since we don't get 2 full tiles. Or should we be looking at smaller formats?
I had a fixer-upper house in MD where all 3 bathrooms were eventually redone. I tried to keep them on a strict budget. Personally I like the larger tiles since there are less grout lines. When someone was doing my bathroom he didn't bother asking me how I wanted them hung and started to do them vertically which I detested (I just rarely see them done that way). He redid it vertically with them staggered. Looked much better.

In your situation I can't really say without seeing it and it is mostly a personally decisions.
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edgeagg
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Re: Tiling question

Post by edgeagg »

Thanks all for the tips here. Now on to grout: I was thinking of using epoxy grout for shower surrounds and the shower floor since I detest scrubbing grout. For the regular floors, was thinking of standard grout except for the tile in the room next to the garage where we were thinking epoxy or urethane grout.

Does this make sense?
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lthenderson
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Re: Tiling question

Post by lthenderson »

edgeagg wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 1:01 pm Thanks all for the tips here. Now on to grout: I was thinking of using epoxy grout for shower surrounds and the shower floor since I detest scrubbing grout. For the regular floors, was thinking of standard grout except for the tile in the room next to the garage where we were thinking epoxy or urethane grout.

Does this make sense?
I usually use epoxy grout in showers and backsplashes and regular grout on floors. If you have never used epoxy grout, it isn't as easy to apply as regular grout. You generally have to work it into the grout lines with more effort and it sets up fairly fast so you have to work much smaller areas at a time and work faster. Smells really bad. The tile needs to be immaculately clean before applying it or it will stick to the residue and make it hard to remove. It can also easily stain natural stones during the application process so if working with natural stone make sure the grout is fairly close in color. It also has a glossier sheen so will show imperfections in the application easier.
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edgeagg
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Re: Tiling question

Post by edgeagg »

lthenderson wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 4:13 pm

I usually use epoxy grout in showers and backsplashes and regular grout on floors. If you have never used epoxy grout, it isn't as easy to apply as regular grout. You generally have to work it into the grout lines with more effort and it sets up fairly fast so you have to work much smaller areas at a time and work faster. Smells really bad. The tile needs to be immaculately clean before applying it or it will stick to the residue and make it hard to remove. It can also easily stain natural stones during the application process so if working with natural stone make sure the grout is fairly close in color. It also has a glossier sheen so will show imperfections in the application easier.
To be clear: I wasn't planning on doing this work myself. The work will be done by a professional tile layer as part of reconstruction. We will be using ceramic tile almost surely, not natural stone. But all of the recommendations here have been very useful for me to think coherently about these variables - tile size, layout and grouting.

So as I understand: Epoxy for the bathroom shower backsplashes but standard cement for floor. Should we use urethane in the "mud" room next to the garage?
Da5id
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Re: Tiling question

Post by Da5id »

Looked at title and assumed I'd be reading about SCV. Oh, tiling, never mind....
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edgeagg
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Re: Tiling question

Post by edgeagg »

Da5id wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:16 am Looked at title and assumed I'd be reading about SCV. Oh, tiling, never mind....
OK, count me confused. Google first hit is Sons of Confederate Veterans, which is clearly not it.
Da5id
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Re: Tiling question

Post by Da5id »

edgeagg wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:47 am
Da5id wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:16 am Looked at title and assumed I'd be reading about SCV. Oh, tiling, never mind....
OK, count me confused. Google first hit is Sons of Confederate Veterans, which is clearly not it.
Tilting ones portfolio is off and on a big topic in bogleheads, rather more common than "tiling" which is why I mentally added the "t". SCV is Small Cap Value, a popular tilt.
Last edited by Da5id on Thu May 20, 2021 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
vested1
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Re: Tiling question

Post by vested1 »

edgeagg wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:47 am
Da5id wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:16 am Looked at title and assumed I'd be reading about SCV. Oh, tiling, never mind....
OK, count me confused. Google first hit is Sons of Confederate Veterans, which is clearly not it.
Maybe it was because you used the word "reconstruction" in an earlier comment. :P

And here I thought SCV was Small Cap Value. :confused
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lthenderson
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Re: Tiling question

Post by lthenderson »

edgeagg wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:05 am
lthenderson wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 4:13 pm

I usually use epoxy grout in showers and backsplashes and regular grout on floors. If you have never used epoxy grout, it isn't as easy to apply as regular grout. You generally have to work it into the grout lines with more effort and it sets up fairly fast so you have to work much smaller areas at a time and work faster. Smells really bad. The tile needs to be immaculately clean before applying it or it will stick to the residue and make it hard to remove. It can also easily stain natural stones during the application process so if working with natural stone make sure the grout is fairly close in color. It also has a glossier sheen so will show imperfections in the application easier.
To be clear: I wasn't planning on doing this work myself. The work will be done by a professional tile layer as part of reconstruction. We will be using ceramic tile almost surely, not natural stone. But all of the recommendations here have been very useful for me to think coherently about these variables - tile size, layout and grouting.

So as I understand: Epoxy for the bathroom shower backsplashes but standard cement for floor. Should we use urethane in the "mud" room next to the garage?
You can use Urethane or Epoxy grouts almost interchangeably. Urethane is supposed to be a bit more flexible but a proper tiling job shouldn't require flexibility as a requirement for any grout. Whether or not you use them on floors is probably up to how much you are willing to pay for someone to do it if you can find someone to apply it. Urethane like epoxy, required a lot of force to pack it into grout joints properly and can be time sensitive on cleanup depending on ambient conditions. It can also require up to a week of non-use to allow it to fully cure. For all of these reasons, most professionals will just use cement based grouts in areas that aren't going to be exposed to lots of moisture and stuff that might cause staining.
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edgeagg
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Re: Tiling question

Post by edgeagg »

vested1 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 8:44 am
edgeagg wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:47 am
Da5id wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:16 am Looked at title and assumed I'd be reading about SCV. Oh, tiling, never mind....
OK, count me confused. Google first hit is Sons of Confederate Veterans, which is clearly not it.
Maybe it was because you used the word "reconstruction" in an earlier comment. :P

And here I thought SCV was Small Cap Value. :confused
Tiling, titling and tilting, it's enough to confuse anyone. Thanks all!
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