Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

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CoastLawyer2030
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Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

I totaled a Honda CR-V two years ago by hitting a deer and had to buy a new car in haste (my insurance only provided a loaner for seven days; that's a conversation for another day). I pretty much ended up doing a search on Cars.com for the cheapest Honda and Toyota with less than 75,000, and I ended up getting a 2015 Toyota Camry with 66,000 miles on it for $14,500. I bought it in cash.

All in all it is a good car, but I've never really liked it. It just feels cheap (it is the lowest Trim model). It is now at the point where it needs new tires, tires rotated, and other routine maintenance, all of which will be over $1,000. I know this is silly but I just hate spending money on something I don't like.

So, I'm looking at Honda Accords and HR-Vs. I've always been a Honda guy. Not sure why I went Toyota but I've regretted it ever since.

But, I've been reading that the used car market is crazy right now, and my preliminary research is indicating that as true. I've seen some 2018 EX-L Accords for about $21,000 and some HR-V EX-L's for around the same. Not sure if this is high or not.

To be clear -- I could buy a used Accord with cash.

Should I be waiting for this COVID market to subside? Should I be looking at new? Or, alternatively, should I just suck it up and drive my Camry for a couple more years?
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by climber2020 »

We recently got a Honda Civic. The price of a new 2021 was less than that of a used 2018, so we went with the new car.
delamer
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by delamer »

I’m in a similar position— driving a car that I’m not that happy with and that is due for a major service ($1500 or so). Over the next couple years, I’d have to put $2500 into it, and that doesn’t include likely tire replacement.

I have not been able to find a replacement that meets my needs either.

I’ve wondered about getting a short lease (24 to 30 months) to get me through until the market settles down. But that basically means that all my equity in my current car will go toward lease payments.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by psteinx »

1) New tires on your current Camry should probably be well under $1K. You mention other maintenance, so maybe that accounts for the difference, but be sure that there's really >$1K of maintenance to be done.

2) While I haven't really been shopping now (I did buy 3 cars and sell/trade 2, last summer), I think that, while new car inventories are low, used cars are likely particularly high priced. So, rather than buying a new-to-you used car, you may do better shopping for something new, and offsetting at least part of the price premium on new cars with an offsetting price premium on used cars/trade-ins.

Even in non-COVID markets, the mantra that 3 y.o. used cars are always a better buy than new cars is overstated, IMO. In current market, maybe moreso...
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by mervinj7 »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:43 am I totaled a Honda CR-V two years ago by hitting a deer and had to buy a new car in haste (my insurance only provided a loaner for seven days; that's a conversation for another day). I pretty much ended up doing a search on Cars.com for the cheapest Honda and Toyota with less than 75,000, and I ended up getting a 2015 Toyota Camry with 66,000 miles on it for $14,500. I bought it in cash.
First thing I would do in your case is to get actual quotes for selling your current used car on the common sites: carvana, vroom, shift, carmax, etc. After that, price out the cost of the new car you want including all fees and taxes. That way, you can make a financial decision with hard numbers. In my limited experience of selling my 3 year old car and buying a new one in the last few months, the used car market is completely out of whack (i.e. prices are quite high) but you can still shop around for good deals on a new car. That was especially true for the used EV market.
Last edited by mervinj7 on Mon May 17, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
hudson
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by hudson »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:43 am I totaled a Honda CR-V two years ago by hitting a deer and had to buy a new car in haste (my insurance only provided a loaner for seven days; that's a conversation for another day). I pretty much ended up doing a search on Cars.com for the cheapest Honda and Toyota with less than 75,000, and I ended up getting a 2015 Toyota Camry with 66,000 miles on it for $14,500. I bought it in cash.

All in all it is a good car, but I've never really liked it. It just feels cheap (it is the lowest Trim model). It is now at the point where it needs new tires, tires rotated, and other routine maintenance, all of which will be over $1,000. I know this is silly but I just hate spending money on something I don't like.

So, I'm looking at Honda Accords and HR-Vs. I've always been a Honda guy. Not sure why I went Toyota but I've regretted it ever since.

But, I've been reading that the used car market is crazy right now, and my preliminary research is indicating that as true. I've seen some 2018 EX-L Accords for about $21,000 and some HR-V EX-L's for around the same. Not sure if this is high or not.

To be clear -- I could buy a used Accord with cash.

Should I be waiting for this COVID market to subside? Should I be looking at new? Or, alternatively, should I just suck it up and drive my Camry for a couple more years?
I never had a problem repairing a good vehicle. I'd spend $1000 on a vehicle that still had years of service left. I've driven hand-me down vehicles for decades. Everywhere I worked, I'd have the oldest car in the lot until I got close to retirement.

I'm with mevinj7. If I wanted to get rid of a 2015 Camry that I hated, I would get out the door prices on at least three Accords that would work.
I would lay the results out on a sheet of paper and think it over. If the numbers worked out and I had the money, I'd go for the best deal.
I would disregard all talk about high prices and see exactly what the prices were.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

psteinx wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:31 pm 1) New tires on your current Camry should probably be well under $1K. You mention other maintenance, so maybe that accounts for the difference, but be sure that there's really >$1K of maintenance to be done.

2) While I haven't really been shopping now (I did buy 3 cars and sell/trade 2, last summer), I think that, while new car inventories are low, used cars are likely particularly high priced. So, rather than buying a new-to-you used car, you may do better shopping for something new, and offsetting at least part of the price premium on new cars with an offsetting price premium on used cars/trade-ins.

Even in non-COVID markets, the mantra that 3 y.o. used cars are always a better buy than new cars is overstated, IMO. In current market, maybe moreso...
The funny thing is that I had the exact same thought as you, but thought I was talking myself into and rationalizing a new car purchase.

But I’m looking at the inventory and I’m seeing used cars that are only $3,000-4,000 less than brand new. It’s crazy.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by hudson »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:23 pm
psteinx wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:31 pm 1) New tires on your current Camry should probably be well under $1K. You mention other maintenance, so maybe that accounts for the difference, but be sure that there's really >$1K of maintenance to be done.

2) While I haven't really been shopping now (I did buy 3 cars and sell/trade 2, last summer), I think that, while new car inventories are low, used cars are likely particularly high priced. So, rather than buying a new-to-you used car, you may do better shopping for something new, and offsetting at least part of the price premium on new cars with an offsetting price premium on used cars/trade-ins.

Even in non-COVID markets, the mantra that 3 y.o. used cars are always a better buy than new cars is overstated, IMO. In current market, maybe moreso...
The funny thing is that I had the exact same thought as you, but thought I was talking myself into and rationalizing a new car purchase.

But I’m looking at the inventory and I’m seeing used cars that are only $3,000-4,000 less than brand new. It’s crazy.
I know you're a Honda person. I've followed Toyota prices for years; that's the way it's been for as long as I can remember. That's why I usually go new IF the price is right and if I can afford it. I like to buy new and drive the vehicle at least 10 years.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

hudson wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:09 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:23 pm
psteinx wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:31 pm 1) New tires on your current Camry should probably be well under $1K. You mention other maintenance, so maybe that accounts for the difference, but be sure that there's really >$1K of maintenance to be done.

2) While I haven't really been shopping now (I did buy 3 cars and sell/trade 2, last summer), I think that, while new car inventories are low, used cars are likely particularly high priced. So, rather than buying a new-to-you used car, you may do better shopping for something new, and offsetting at least part of the price premium on new cars with an offsetting price premium on used cars/trade-ins.

Even in non-COVID markets, the mantra that 3 y.o. used cars are always a better buy than new cars is overstated, IMO. In current market, maybe moreso...
The funny thing is that I had the exact same thought as you, but thought I was talking myself into and rationalizing a new car purchase.

But I’m looking at the inventory and I’m seeing used cars that are only $3,000-4,000 less than brand new. It’s crazy.
I know you're a Honda person. I've followed Toyota prices for years; that's the way it's been for as long as I can remember. That's why I usually go new IF the price is right and if I can afford it. I like to buy new and drive the vehicle at least 10 years.
Any thoughts on trading my car in and leasing for two years? Seems like the market is crazy right now. Can’t tell if doing this is just throwing away money (i.e., I should hold onto the current car) or not.

Here’s another thing — I really like the 2018 line of Hondas. That’s when they really revamped the Accord and CR-V. I would assume that a lot of these are going to have their three year leases expire come this fall. Maybe wait until then?

All in all — I hate the anxiety I get when I feel like I should buy something and don’t pull the trigger. Makes me feel like modern capitalism is winning.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

mervinj7 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:44 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:43 am I totaled a Honda CR-V two years ago by hitting a deer and had to buy a new car in haste (my insurance only provided a loaner for seven days; that's a conversation for another day). I pretty much ended up doing a search on Cars.com for the cheapest Honda and Toyota with less than 75,000, and I ended up getting a 2015 Toyota Camry with 66,000 miles on it for $14,500. I bought it in cash.
First thing I would do in your case is to get actual quotes for selling your current used car on the common sites: carvana, vroom, shift, carmax, etc. After that, price out the cost of the new car you want including all fees and taxes. That way, you can make a financial decision with hard numbers. In my limited experience of selling my 3 year old car and buying a new one in the last few months, the used car market is completely out of whack (i.e. prices are quite high) but you can still shop around for good deals on a new car. That was especially true for the used EV market.
Are there any current tax credits for new electric/hybrid vehicles?
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by iamlucky13 »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:43 amAll in all it is a good car, but I've never really liked it. It just feels cheap (it is the lowest Trim model). It is now at the point where it needs new tires, tires rotated, and other routine maintenance, all of which will be over $1,000. I know this is silly but I just hate spending money on something I don't like.
My observation of the used market is that currently, you are likely to pay more than a $1,000 premium compared to how lightly used cars have historically compared to original MSRP. I'd say probably around $2,000-$3,000.

Also, Honda is one of the brands where it was already typical to see relatively small initial depreciation, making used Honda's not much better of a value than new. The savings of buying used are even smaller than normal now, and in some cases, the market is downright upside down - literally, used cars are sometimes selling over MSRP.

So my recommendation is spend the money on the maintenance, and wait a year or two for the market to hopefully return to normal.

If you really want to buy now, make sure to check new car prices, too.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by psteinx »

Trading in a perfectly functional (after ~$1K in maintenance), 6 y.o. Camry to sign a new 2 year lease is almost certainly a REALLY BAD IDEA, financially.

As for electric/hybrid credits - at the federal level, I think some manufacturers have credits of up to $7500 available - depends on the manufacturer (Tesla, for instance, is at $0). There may be further incentives at the state or perhaps local/utility level.

I think you're looking for a way to make this "OK". If you're reasonably financially secure, I think trading in the 6 y.o. Camry on a new, comparable Accord/HR-V (or CR-V) is OK. Yes, it will cost you something. That's not the end of the world.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by hudson »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:28 pm Any thoughts on trading my car in and leasing for two years? Seems like the market is crazy right now. Can’t tell if doing this is just throwing away money (i.e., I should hold onto the current car) or not.

Here’s another thing — I really like the 2018 line of Hondas. That’s when they really revamped the Accord and CR-V. I would assume that a lot of these are going to have their three year leases expire come this fall. Maybe wait until then?

All in all — I hate the anxiety I get when I feel like I should buy something and don’t pull the trigger. Makes me feel like modern capitalism is winning.
Isn't leasing almost same as buying new? I would have to see the OTD deal for new and the OTD deal for a lease laid out side by side on a piece of paper. If I was going to lease, I would buy James Bragg's Fighting Chance coaching deal and let him review the deal for me.
If you wait to buy, the prices might be better; they may not. Nobody knows how it's going to go.
I like the anxiety of researching a purchase until I get to the decision part. I've never felt bad about skipping a purchase that I didn't really need.
Good news! You have a car that runs. It's only going to cost you $1000 to run it for another few years.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by Watty »

Take a look at buying a new car instead.

Some models are in short supply because of the computer chip shortage but some models are not so you can still get reasonable prices on those.

A couple of weeks ago I had heard about how crazy the used car market is now so out of curiosity I got quotes for a three year old 2018 Corolla I had. Out of curiosity I got quotes for it from CarMax, Carvana, ect and they all came back high. CarMax even offered me more for it than I paid for it when when it was new, except for taxes and registration.

I am retired and with the pandemic it will be a long time before we can do international trips again so we will be taking more road trips and doing more car camping than we had planned. The Corolla is a bit small for that so I had been thinking that a larger car would be nice to have.

To make a long story short I was able to get a new Subaru Forester for about the invoice price(including junk fees) with 0% financing so, at least to me, that was a OK deal.

Since I got my money back out of the Corolla I basically got to drive it for three years for free, except for the operating costs.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by delamer »

hudson wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:57 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:28 pm Any thoughts on trading my car in and leasing for two years? Seems like the market is crazy right now. Can’t tell if doing this is just throwing away money (i.e., I should hold onto the current car) or not.

Here’s another thing — I really like the 2018 line of Hondas. That’s when they really revamped the Accord and CR-V. I would assume that a lot of these are going to have their three year leases expire come this fall. Maybe wait until then?

All in all — I hate the anxiety I get when I feel like I should buy something and don’t pull the trigger. Makes me feel like modern capitalism is winning.

Good news! You have a car that runs. It's only going to cost you $1000 to run it for another few years.
Even with a reliable car like a Camry, there is no way to know if it’ll only cost $1,000 for another few years. The OP could end up putting $1,000 in tomorrow and then another $500 in 6 months and then another $250 in 18 months, and so on.

That’s the problem that I’m wrestling with regarding my 2014 (non-Camry). I bought it used and have had only one non-service repair which was just $200. And I am afraid my luck will run out...
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

delamer wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:58 pm
hudson wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:57 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:28 pm Any thoughts on trading my car in and leasing for two years? Seems like the market is crazy right now. Can’t tell if doing this is just throwing away money (i.e., I should hold onto the current car) or not.

Here’s another thing — I really like the 2018 line of Hondas. That’s when they really revamped the Accord and CR-V. I would assume that a lot of these are going to have their three year leases expire come this fall. Maybe wait until then?

All in all — I hate the anxiety I get when I feel like I should buy something and don’t pull the trigger. Makes me feel like modern capitalism is winning.

Good news! You have a car that runs. It's only going to cost you $1000 to run it for another few years.
Even with a reliable car like a Camry, there is no way to know if it’ll only cost $1,000 for another few years. The OP could end up putting $1,000 in tomorrow and then another $500 in 6 months and then another $250 in 18 months, and so on.

That’s the problem that I’m wrestling with regarding my 2014 (non-Camry). I bought it used and have had only one non-service repair which was just $200. And I am afraid my luck will run out...
Yes, this is where my head is at right now. Like I said in my original post, I bought this car in haste after totaling my previous car. I couldn't really commit to anything so chose the cheapest option with less than 60,000 miles at the time.

Odds are it will run fine for quite awhile. But I just hate the thought of putting money into a car I don't really care about.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by hudson »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:08 pm
Odds are it will run fine for quite awhile. But I just hate the thought of putting money into a car I don't really care about.
What will win here? The Boglehead voice of reason or the voice of desire?
If I were you, and it made financial sense, I would dump the Toyota and go Honda! :)
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by Watty »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:08 pm But I just hate the thought of putting money into a car I don't really care about.
You are out the cost of the tires no matter what you do.

If you keep the car then you have to buy new tires just to be safe.

If you sell the car without replacing the tires then any potential buyer will reduce the price they will pay because they know that they will need to buy new tires for the car.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

Watty wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:02 pm Take a look at buying a new car instead.

Some models are in short supply because of the computer chip shortage but some models are not so you can still get reasonable prices on those.

A couple of weeks ago I had heard about how crazy the used car market is now so out of curiosity I got quotes for a three year old 2018 Corolla I had. Out of curiosity I got quotes for it from CarMax, Carvana, ect and they all came back high. CarMax even offered me more for it than I paid for it when when it was new, except for taxes and registration.

I am retired and with the pandemic it will be a long time before we can do international trips again so we will be taking more road trips and doing more car camping than we had planned. The Corolla is a bit small for that so I had been thinking that a larger car would be nice to have.

To make a long story short I was able to get a new Subaru Forester for about the invoice price(including junk fees) with 0% financing so, at least to me, that was a OK deal.

Since I got my money back out of the Corolla I basically got to drive it for three years for free, except for the operating costs.
hudson wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:20 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:08 pm
Odds are it will run fine for quite awhile. But I just hate the thought of putting money into a car I don't really care about.
What will win here? The Boglehead voice of reason or the voice of desire?
If I were you, and it made financial sense, I would dump the Toyota and go Honda! :)
Both of you seem to know what you're talking about, so maybe either of you can answer me this -- why are used Hondas the same price as used Mercedes right now?
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by afr »

We bought a used '16 Honda Accord EX-L for my wife(in Dec.'19) for just under 18k that had 20k mi on it. Good condition and nice car to drive but kinda boring. I have a '13 Mazda Miata that I bought used that's a heckuva lot more fun to drive. Four door sedans are for old people. Truthfully, the only car non-boring car Honda ever made was the S2000. Unfortunately they discontinued it. The lineups of Honda(Acura) and Toyota(Lexus) make me yawn. If your current car runs well and requires minimal maintenance, I'd drive it til the wheels fall off.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by hudson »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:38 pm Both of you seem to know what you're talking about, so maybe either of you can answer me this -- why are used Hondas the same price as used Mercedes right now?
Thanks!
I have no idea.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by FrugalInvestor »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:38 pm Both of you seem to know what you're talking about, so maybe either of you can answer me this -- why are used Hondas the same price as used Mercedes right now?
Maybe because used Honda's are very reliable and affordable to operate and maintain and Mercedes are none of those?
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:51 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:38 pm Both of you seem to know what you're talking about, so maybe either of you can answer me this -- why are used Hondas the same price as used Mercedes right now?
Maybe because used Honda's are very reliable and affordable to operate and maintain and Mercedes are none of those?
This is what I figured. I got really bored and just searched cars.com by "body style" and was shocked to see Mercedes and BMW's showing up right next to Hondas and Toyotas.

The following goes against everything I stand for -- but the interior of the Mercedes are mind-blowing.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by stuyguy »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:29 pm Are there any current tax credits for new electric/hybrid vehicles?
In the NE, 2021 Toyota Prius Primes are discounted up to $5500 from Toyota, as well as additional dealer discounts; eligible for $4502 from Feds. See recent posts here
https://priuschat.com/threads/prius-pri ... st-3152103
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by delamer »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:53 pm
FrugalInvestor wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:51 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:38 pm Both of you seem to know what you're talking about, so maybe either of you can answer me this -- why are used Hondas the same price as used Mercedes right now?
Maybe because used Honda's are very reliable and affordable to operate and maintain and Mercedes are none of those?
This is what I figured. I got really bored and just searched cars.com by "body style" and was shocked to see Mercedes and BMW's showing up right next to Hondas and Toyotas.

The following goes against everything I stand for -- but the interior of the Mercedes are mind-blowing.
Well, ironically, the car that I am up-in-the-air about is a 2014 Mercedes E-class with about 35,000 miles. CarMac offered me $17,000 about 4 months ago.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by gblack »

A lot of 2018 BMWs and Mercedes are now priced similar to 2018 Hondas and Subarus for some funky reason. Probably some supply and demand issues - I read a lot of BMWs sold due to generous lease deals in the past couple of years. Now those leases have come up and there is a lot of supply. If I could pay 25K for a 3 year old 45K car or 25K for a 3 year old 28K car, I think it's pretty obvious which way to go, especially if you'd enjoy some of the performance and luxury extras.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by iamlucky13 »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:51 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:38 pm Both of you seem to know what you're talking about, so maybe either of you can answer me this -- why are used Hondas the same price as used Mercedes right now?
Maybe because used Honda's are very reliable and affordable to operate and maintain and Mercedes are none of those?
I've heard they have improved in this regards lately, but the reputation clearly still remains.

I would imagine there is also a greater bias among luxury car buyers toward new rather than used, making it harder to command a premium in the used car market.

Lastly, some of the hits you see may be cars with accident histories bringing their prices down further.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by Sandtrap »

Buy and drive the car that is most gratifying to you without regret and will reward you for many years to come regardless of outside influences.
Like buying a comfy pair of shoes.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by delamer »

iamlucky13 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:27 pm
FrugalInvestor wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:51 pm
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:38 pm Both of you seem to know what you're talking about, so maybe either of you can answer me this -- why are used Hondas the same price as used Mercedes right now?
Maybe because used Honda's are very reliable and affordable to operate and maintain and Mercedes are none of those?
I've heard they have improved in this regards lately, but the reputation clearly still remains.

I would imagine there is also a greater bias among luxury car buyers toward new rather than used, making it harder to command a premium in the used car market.

Lastly, some of the hits you see may be cars with accident histories bringing their prices down further.
Repairs are expensive on luxury cars, so a lot of people don’t want to own them outside of the initial warranty period. CPO coverage is popular for those buying used.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by sunny_socal »

There's nothing "covid" about the market - it's a "chip shortage" market. Prices are driven by supply & demand, that's how it is all the time. But even at MSRP those Hondas are worth it because the depreciation is very modeset. I say go for it.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by sureshoe »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:43 am I totaled a Honda CR-V two years ago by hitting a deer and had to buy a new car in haste (my insurance only provided a loaner for seven days; that's a conversation for another day). I pretty much ended up doing a search on Cars.com for the cheapest Honda and Toyota with less than 75,000, and I ended up getting a 2015 Toyota Camry with 66,000 miles on it for $14,500. I bought it in cash.

All in all it is a good car, but I've never really liked it. It just feels cheap (it is the lowest Trim model). It is now at the point where it needs new tires, tires rotated, and other routine maintenance, all of which will be over $1,000. I know this is silly but I just hate spending money on something I don't like.

So, I'm looking at Honda Accords and HR-Vs. I've always been a Honda guy. Not sure why I went Toyota but I've regretted it ever since.

But, I've been reading that the used car market is crazy right now, and my preliminary research is indicating that as true. I've seen some 2018 EX-L Accords for about $21,000 and some HR-V EX-L's for around the same. Not sure if this is high or not.

To be clear -- I could buy a used Accord with cash.

Should I be waiting for this COVID market to subside? Should I be looking at new? Or, alternatively, should I just suck it up and drive my Camry for a couple more years?
Every time I think about buying a used Toyota, Honda, or Lexus or whatever - I find that getting a 2-4 year old model is simply not worth it in my opinion. The theoretical depreciation savings is not there, and you often get some perks getting new in financing or rebates or something. For example, we bought a new Pilot back in 2017. We could have gotten one that was 2-4 years older, but it really wasn't ALL that much cheaper.

I feel like the conventional wisdom is "buy used, save money", and that is true for people buying certain types of cars. But, if you're someone who buys a car and keeps it for 7+ years, I think there is real value to be had in buying a new Toyota or Honda. I still have a 2009 Pilot I'm driving now that is probably worth ~$9k if I sell it... and I paid $35k 12 years ago. It's starting to get clunky now. Had I bought an older model, it would be in really rough shape, but I had a great car for all those years - a newbie for 3-4, a lightly used for 5-8, and now an old one 9-12. I'm not missing that initial $3k-$5k savings 12 years later (less than $400/year over this time).

Also, I would be highly surprised if you're able to find a 2018 Honda Accord top trim for $21k. Did you mean $31k?
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by CoastLawyer2030 »

sureshoe wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 7:55 am
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:43 am I totaled a Honda CR-V two years ago by hitting a deer and had to buy a new car in haste (my insurance only provided a loaner for seven days; that's a conversation for another day). I pretty much ended up doing a search on Cars.com for the cheapest Honda and Toyota with less than 75,000, and I ended up getting a 2015 Toyota Camry with 66,000 miles on it for $14,500. I bought it in cash.

All in all it is a good car, but I've never really liked it. It just feels cheap (it is the lowest Trim model). It is now at the point where it needs new tires, tires rotated, and other routine maintenance, all of which will be over $1,000. I know this is silly but I just hate spending money on something I don't like.

So, I'm looking at Honda Accords and HR-Vs. I've always been a Honda guy. Not sure why I went Toyota but I've regretted it ever since.

But, I've been reading that the used car market is crazy right now, and my preliminary research is indicating that as true. I've seen some 2018 EX-L Accords for about $21,000 and some HR-V EX-L's for around the same. Not sure if this is high or not.

To be clear -- I could buy a used Accord with cash.

Should I be waiting for this COVID market to subside? Should I be looking at new? Or, alternatively, should I just suck it up and drive my Camry for a couple more years?
Every time I think about buying a used Toyota, Honda, or Lexus or whatever - I find that getting a 2-4 year old model is simply not worth it in my opinion. The theoretical depreciation savings is not there, and you often get some perks getting new in financing or rebates or something. For example, we bought a new Pilot back in 2017. We could have gotten one that was 2-4 years older, but it really wasn't ALL that much cheaper.

I feel like the conventional wisdom is "buy used, save money", and that is true for people buying certain types of cars. But, if you're someone who buys a car and keeps it for 7+ years, I think there is real value to be had in buying a new Toyota or Honda. I still have a 2009 Pilot I'm driving now that is probably worth ~$9k if I sell it... and I paid $35k 12 years ago. It's starting to get clunky now. Had I bought an older model, it would be in really rough shape, but I had a great car for all those years - a newbie for 3-4, a lightly used for 5-8, and now an old one 9-12. I'm not missing that initial $3k-$5k savings 12 years later (less than $400/year over this time).

Also, I would be highly surprised if you're able to find a 2018 Honda Accord top trim for $21k. Did you mean $31k?
No, it was an EX-L for $21,500. It was a crazy deal. Here it is -- https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

I haven't found another EX-L for less than $24,000, except black ones, and I refuse to buy a black car in NE Ohio.

As I have posted upthread, your entire reasoning about finding value is why I think I am in the middle of a shift to luxury cars in real time. I generally like the bells and whistles of the EX-L on Hondas or XLE on Toyotas. Buying at those trim levels puts me in the same boat as the used luxury brands, but those luxury brands are somehow actually cheaper and they are significantly nicer.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by sureshoe »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:04 am
sureshoe wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 7:55 am
CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:43 am I totaled a Honda CR-V two years ago by hitting a deer and had to buy a new car in haste (my insurance only provided a loaner for seven days; that's a conversation for another day). I pretty much ended up doing a search on Cars.com for the cheapest Honda and Toyota with less than 75,000, and I ended up getting a 2015 Toyota Camry with 66,000 miles on it for $14,500. I bought it in cash.

All in all it is a good car, but I've never really liked it. It just feels cheap (it is the lowest Trim model). It is now at the point where it needs new tires, tires rotated, and other routine maintenance, all of which will be over $1,000. I know this is silly but I just hate spending money on something I don't like.

So, I'm looking at Honda Accords and HR-Vs. I've always been a Honda guy. Not sure why I went Toyota but I've regretted it ever since.

But, I've been reading that the used car market is crazy right now, and my preliminary research is indicating that as true. I've seen some 2018 EX-L Accords for about $21,000 and some HR-V EX-L's for around the same. Not sure if this is high or not.

To be clear -- I could buy a used Accord with cash.

Should I be waiting for this COVID market to subside? Should I be looking at new? Or, alternatively, should I just suck it up and drive my Camry for a couple more years?
Every time I think about buying a used Toyota, Honda, or Lexus or whatever - I find that getting a 2-4 year old model is simply not worth it in my opinion. The theoretical depreciation savings is not there, and you often get some perks getting new in financing or rebates or something. For example, we bought a new Pilot back in 2017. We could have gotten one that was 2-4 years older, but it really wasn't ALL that much cheaper.

I feel like the conventional wisdom is "buy used, save money", and that is true for people buying certain types of cars. But, if you're someone who buys a car and keeps it for 7+ years, I think there is real value to be had in buying a new Toyota or Honda. I still have a 2009 Pilot I'm driving now that is probably worth ~$9k if I sell it... and I paid $35k 12 years ago. It's starting to get clunky now. Had I bought an older model, it would be in really rough shape, but I had a great car for all those years - a newbie for 3-4, a lightly used for 5-8, and now an old one 9-12. I'm not missing that initial $3k-$5k savings 12 years later (less than $400/year over this time).

Also, I would be highly surprised if you're able to find a 2018 Honda Accord top trim for $21k. Did you mean $31k?
No, it was an EX-L for $21,500. It was a crazy deal. Here it is -- https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

I haven't found another EX-L for less than $24,000, except black ones, and I refuse to buy a black car in NE Ohio.

As I have posted upthread, your entire reasoning about finding value is why I think I am in the middle of a shift to luxury cars in real time. I generally like the bells and whistles of the EX-L on Hondas or XLE on Toyotas. Buying at those trim levels puts me in the same boat as the used luxury brands, but those luxury brands are somehow actually cheaper and they are significantly nicer.
Now I have to go hit Cars.com. Luxury brands do depreciate faster, so you can get a nice car for a discount. Lots of leasing, and people not wanting to pay a premium on a used premium label. Hard to impress the neighbors with a 6 year old Lexus... but it's still a nice car. I drove a very nice used RX for a while too.

Anyway, looking around - if you love Honda, don't take an Acura TLX off your list. I would strongly consider a new Accord and pay a little extra if you have can. I did check Cars, and you can get good used Accord EX-L in the $26k range, I was mistaken. A new one is around $31k, but you probably can get a little extra incentive. So about a $5k difference. So ~$220/month depreciation.

Used Honda Accord (several similar to this)
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

The other option would be to do the Acura TLX:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/
That's fully loaded, low mileage, 2018, under $26k

Those are very similar cars. The Acura has a bit more of a "wow" factor, but which is "better"? Hard to say.

You sound like you're in a spot I was in a while ago: you spent enough money on a car that it's not a total piece of junk (I don't mind driving junk, because hey, I'm saving money). At the same time, you don't like it. That's a bad feeling - get a car you like. Or, drive junk :)
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by an_asker »

CoastLawyer2030 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:43 am I totaled a Honda CR-V two years ago by hitting a deer and had to buy a new car in haste (my insurance only provided a loaner for seven days; that's a conversation for another day). I pretty much ended up doing a search on Cars.com for the cheapest Honda and Toyota with less than 75,000, and I ended up getting a 2015 Toyota Camry with 66,000 miles on it for $14,500. I bought it in cash.

All in all it is a good car, but I've never really liked it. It just feels cheap (it is the lowest Trim model). It is now at the point where it needs new tires, tires rotated, and other routine maintenance, all of which will be over $1,000. I know this is silly but I just hate spending money on something I don't like.

So, I'm looking at Honda Accords and HR-Vs. I've always been a Honda guy. Not sure why I went Toyota but I've regretted it ever since.

But, I've been reading that the used car market is crazy right now, and my preliminary research is indicating that as true. I've seen some 2018 EX-L Accords for about $21,000 and some HR-V EX-L's for around the same. Not sure if this is high or not.

To be clear -- I could buy a used Accord with cash.

Should I be waiting for this COVID market to subside? Should I be looking at new? Or, alternatively, should I just suck it up and drive my Camry for a couple more years?
I suggest you go for a new car - if you can afford a used Accord with cash, I would say you can probably pay 80-90% on a new one as well. The remainder will likely be a small loan at 0.99% or less, which you can pay off within a year.

And if you trade your Toyota in, it would be similar to tax loss harvesting!
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by illumination »

If you can wait to purchase, I probably would.

I also agree that certain models of car it just doesn't make much sense to buy used if you are wanting something newer. SUVs and Trucks often times fall into this category in my experience. Sedans have much worse depreciation and its usually better to go used as you can get a substantial discount.
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Re: Stupid to Buy a Used Car in this "COVID" Market? (Honda Accord/HR-V)

Post by sunny_socal »

illumination wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:33 am If you can wait to purchase, I probably would.

I also agree that certain models of car it just doesn't make much sense to buy used if you are wanting something newer. SUVs and Trucks often times fall into this category in my experience. Sedans have much worse depreciation and its usually better to go used as you can get a substantial discount.
IME it's the other way around. An 80k truck will certainly depreciate much more than a 20k sedan.
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