Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

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elle
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by elle »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:25 pm
warowits wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 pm Good point about the value of beaters, though. As for car trouble - I think if the trouble was serious enough I would simply drive my other car temporarily. Maintenance costs would definitely be a factor.
Unless the car dies on the way there or back. You have a kid. Think about safety because you are no good dead or injured. Drive your car and suck it up.
delamer
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by delamer »

260chrisb wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:40 am
delamer wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:48 pm
tibbitts wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:36 pm
260chrisb wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:29 pm
delamer wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 pm You need a car with state-of-the art safety features if you are going to do that much driving, not a beater.
A "beater" car is loosely defined and vague, nearly every car built in the past 15 has plenty of "state of the art" safety features, and driving 20K a year is not that much driving.
Lots of cars built in the last 15yrs don't have rear-view cameras or sensors, which I'd consider safety features. 20k a year is an extraordinarily large amount of driving given that the last average I saw, I believe pre-pandemic, was 14k miles per year. My two cars averaged only about 500mi each over the past year, due partly to the pandemic.
I’d also not drive long distances without blind-spot monitoring, which isn’t universally available.

There is a big difference between driving a 200-mile trip twice a week, versus driving, for example, 10 20-mile trips like you might in a typical commute. Same total mileage, very different experiences.

Also, $3000 is neither loosely defined or vague.
Your point is well taken and I appreciate it, yes 3K is pretty defined and I'm pretty sure when the OP shops for cars in that segment he's not going to be a buyer. Having said that the assumption is that a 200 mile trip will not be in city traffic but instead mostly on the highway where "state of the art" safety features like blind spot monitoring are way less important. We all have different levels of driving skills and driving awareness. I've been driving for over 40 years, have never had an accident, (oh God, here I go sounding old!) :D have driven over 1M miles, and have never had a car with blind spot monitoring or many of the other features that we've been sold as "can't live without" costly additions to the cost of our cars. My current daily driver is a 2011 Toyota and while it does have a backup camera (that is useless) it doesn't have blind spot monitoring and has been just fine. It does have three mirrors; thus eliminating said blind spots.
I’ve had my license for 51 years, so I am pretty old — not only sounding. :D I’ve had one accident about 25 years ago when I hit a pole at the end of a parking space that I was backing out of. Never with another vehicle involved.

I’ll venture that if you’ve never driven a car with blind spot monitors that you don’t know what you are missing. The feature comes in very handy in high-speed traffic when other drivers are changing lanes and when I want to do so. Highway driving is much more fraught than travelling local roads in my area.

We all got along for many, many years with just brake lights and turn signals. We also got along without cell phones, microwave ovens, and the Internet. But my life is better having those things in it, just like it is with blind spot monitors.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
tibbitts
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by tibbitts »

IMO wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 2:33 am
tibbitts wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:36 pm
260chrisb wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:29 pm
delamer wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 pm You need a car with state-of-the art safety features if you are going to do that much driving, not a beater.
A "beater" car is loosely defined and vague, nearly every car built in the past 15 has plenty of "state of the art" safety features, and driving 20K a year is not that much driving.
Lots of cars built in the last 15yrs don't have rear-view cameras or sensors, which I'd consider safety features. 20k a year is an extraordinarily large amount of driving given that the last average I saw, I believe pre-pandemic, was 14k miles per year. My two cars averaged only about 500mi each over the past year, due partly to the pandemic.
You only drove 1000 miles the entire last year? Maybe you should sell a car to the OP for his commuting :D
Yes, about a thousand miles, starting in mid-March 2020. Neither car would be my choice for a long-distance commute.
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Nestegg_User
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Nestegg_User »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:47 am
Maverick3320 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:08 pm I may be offered a position (a promotion) that is currently ~200 miles from where I live. The assignment would be for a limited term, most likely two years, three years at most. We bought our house approximately 18 months ago and really don't want to move - my wife has a great job in our current city, we got our daughter into the "exclusive" daycare we want, family and friends are nearby, etc.

Because this position is tough to fill there is some leniency on telework to the point where I may only have to spend three days in the office. My thought was to drive up Monday morning, stay a few days in the office/work area, and then drive home Wednesday evening, for a total commute of about 400 miles per week.

The thing is that I really like my current car and would hate to put that many miles on it. It's worth about $25,000 and gets roughly 25 MPG. Assuming that I'm okay with driving a "lesser" car, would it make financial sense to buy a $3000 car, put a ton of miles on it, and then get rid of it after a few years? I'm finding that the gas savings are fairly straightforward to calculate but getting a good read on depreciation is a bit harder.
As per other posters:

- at current gas prices, your existing mpg is acceptable

- you won't find a decent car for the kind of money you are talking about. There is a big shortage of used cars right now, due to Covid-19 related production cuts in new cars (they can't get the silicon chips)

- the car you will need for that much driving must be 1). comfortable and 2). safe

- that really points to using your existing car. When Dad had a job out of town in the mid 60s, he burned through his AMC Rambler Classic in about 2 years-- 50k miles in 2 years (cars did not last as long then). His next car? A 1967 Dodge Dart which lasted until 1979 (his job moved to head office and he could take the subway to work)

You will burn through whatever car. But at 20k miles pa not *that* fast. What will your wife drive, though?

This is going to be tough on you and your family. Don't complicate it by trying to be clever about cars.

At least with the Rambler, he could drop the back seat down and, with a sleeping bag, sleep in the back {sibling had one, used it that way with hunting trips}... and they were relatively easy to work on, engine easily accessible (not like the 305/350 of later GM's)

As to the OP, which commute of 200 miles also makes a difference:
the direct route of Bend to Boise has one going through mountains (which can be tough in winter) and much of the route has NO cell coverage, none, nada so you better not break down (and it will take at least an hour for any AAA to get to you (it took 45 minutes to arrive for those in the Bend area (where there's a lot more people/need)

The I-70 route from Grand Junction to Denver metro would have you going over the Divide, which in winter could be real trouble and or have significant ski traffic... but the engine has to make it over, which ain't guaranteed with a "beater"

Even a Pittsburgh to DC commute, over the interstate, I'd want a reliable vehicle... and one that was comfortable because you would be sitting in traffic for a "long" time
H-Town
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by H-Town »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:08 pm The thing is that I really like my current car and would hate to put that many miles on it. It's worth about $25,000 and gets roughly 25 MPG. Assuming that I'm okay with driving a "lesser" car, would it make financial sense to buy a $3000 car, put a ton of miles on it, and then get rid of it after a few years? I'm finding that the gas savings are fairly straightforward to calculate but getting a good read on depreciation is a bit harder.
Why would you hate putting miles on your car? I'm curious. Because I want to maximize the utility of my car as much as possible. My first car run close to 250k miles before I hand it down. My second and current car is currently at 160k miles and running. Modern cars don't just stop running at 100k miles mark.

As far as financial aspect, it does not make sense to buy a beater car because you would incur expense to keep both cars running (insurance, registration, opportunity cost, etc.). As you drive the beater car, your other car would be useless on your driveway.

And don't blindly listen to advice about "state of the art" safe features. Maybe those features are helpful to them. But they are useless to me.
Time is the ultimate currency.
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Maverick3320
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Maverick3320 »

Andyrunner wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:31 pm To me, it would be too risky to buy a $3,000 car and drive 200 miles each way. You don't get much for $3,000 these days. I'd be concerned about it breaking down halfway between home and the office.

Also Monday and Tuesday night, would you plan on sleeping in the office? Are you looking at a rental? or Hotel each night?
I would probably sleep in the office. I looked at the cost of hotel rooms on a per night basis and also some apartments (around 800/month in the area). I figured I would see how sleeping in the office was (we have shower facilities, gym, etc) and if it didn't go well, I'd start looking at the other solutions above. We can afford an apartment, I'd just rather not pay if we don't have to.
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Maverick3320
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Maverick3320 »

bugleheadd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:32 pm what car do you currently have? an accord/camry ? 400 miles a week is around 21,000 miles per year is pretty normal driving and those cars can handle that mileage per year. just have to keep up with scheduled maintenance.
Currently have a 2017 Lincoln MKZ with around 52,000 miles on it. Well-maintained, no issues so far.
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Maverick3320
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Maverick3320 »

bugleheadd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:32 pm what car do you currently have? an accord/camry ? 400 miles a week is around 21,000 miles per year is pretty normal driving and those cars can handle that mileage per year. just have to keep up with scheduled maintenance.
Currently have a 2017 Lincoln MKZ with around 52,000 miles on it. Well-maintained, no issues so far.
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Maverick3320
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Maverick3320 »

warowits wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:39 pm
Maverick3320 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:25 pm
warowits wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 pm Ignoring the obvious questions and concerns your post raises and just focusing on what you are talking about, I would say I don’t think you could find a 3k car that would be reliable for that trip. Beater cars have gone up in value significantly in the last year. How big a deal is it if you miss work for car trouble? Sometimes when people pay you more they expect more out of you, including that you don’t cheap out and buy an unreliable car.

If it were me I might get one in the 10k-12k range, and maybe sell your other one. Then buy a car you like again when the commute is over.
By "obvious questions or concerns" are you referring to what other posters have said - safety concerns, etc?
You are married with at least one child, and you are thinking of taking a job 200 miles away from home, and spending at least 2 nights a week sleeping away from home. The first 10-15k in pay raise isn't a pay raise at all, it will go strait to car depreciation and take out meals, by necessity. If you have to rent a room to sleep in 2 nights a week it is even worse, more like 20k-25k of your raise gone.

You are also hoping this telecommute flexibility lasts 2-3 years, but it doesn't seem set in stone. I have noticed a growing discontent with workers who 'telecommute' in mixed offices. You think that you are really going out of the way for your company by driving 200 miles, but to the people at that location you are the guy who only bothers to come in to work 3 days a week. Depending on the jobsite this may not be applicable.

Most importantly it seems like you are pushing a large amount of child rearing work off onto your spouse, during the years when it is still hard work. Just how big is this raise?
Well, as with all things, life isn't simple, unfortunately. I'm a military officer - the position being offered is a definite step up for me, both in terms of rank and responsibility, and is a fairly "prestigious" position (executive officer of a battalion) for my resume. It's somewhat expected that ambitious officers will take positions like this at some point in their career - out of the way, hard to fill positions, etc. Officers are expected to only spend 2-3 years in each position and our careers are managed to keep it that way - I have yet to see an officer spend more than three years in any position anywhere. Two years in a position is closer to the norm, and in some cases even 18 months for hardship posts or for significant life events (if I had another child, I think leadership would understand me wanting to come back closer to home). Perhaps most importantly, my current leadership has been extremely supportive of my career and I do feel a sense of loyalty. Almost everything I've asked for - remote work, time off for childcare reasons, etc - they have supported with no questions asked. I feel very fortunate to have a career like this.

This is a fairly remote location and the majority of the office workers telecommute often because the positions are hard to fill. I've already talked to the unit leadership at the new location and they brought up the expectation of "three days a week physically in the office", and I was actually warned that if I came into the position and tried to change that expectation and have people physically in the office more often, I may have a mutiny on my hands. I'm of the firm belief that if the work is getting done, I don't mind if its done from home, especially if it raises the qualify of life for folks.

I'm certainly not doing this for the money - we are financially secure for the most part. Selling it to my wife has been the hard part, but the fact that the Army pays for 100% of family healthcare, 60% of our childcare costs, and will allow me to retire in ~10 years or so with a 50% pension for life does help smooth things over a bit. Our combined income is approximately $250k/year and our savings rate is hovering around 50% so we've discussed having some part-time help in the evenings during this next few years as well.

Overall, even with a pay raise our savings rate may dip from 50% a year to 40% a year, and in the short term it would be somewhat of a challenge. But in the longer term I think it's a net win.

EDIT: to answer some other questions, my wife has her own vehicle - a 2019 Honda CR-V that we paid cash for. My current car has blind spot monitoring, auto cruise control, lane control, etc. Basically I like my current car so much that I would hate to "run it down" early in it's life, but it looks like the overwhelming consensus is just to use that vehicle, which does make sense the more I think about it.
Last edited by Maverick3320 on Thu May 13, 2021 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
OldBallCoach
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by OldBallCoach »

Personally I drive about 30 miles each way to work most of the year..I want the BEST car I can possibly have around me at all times..if I want to save money, brown bag it..wait I do that already...but point is, you are WORTH it...its just a car...get the best you can afford and take care of it..nowdays that car will hold its value just fine...never drive junk unless you have no other choice...and yea...I have driven junk when I had no other choice...

AND MOST OF ALL...Thank you for your service..and thank your wife and family...its a total family deal in your life..I get it...but dear God man, take care of your self on the road and at your post...
Last edited by OldBallCoach on Thu May 13, 2021 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Escapevelocity
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Escapevelocity »

Maverick3320 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:58 am
Andyrunner wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:31 pm To me, it would be too risky to buy a $3,000 car and drive 200 miles each way. You don't get much for $3,000 these days. I'd be concerned about it breaking down halfway between home and the office.

Also Monday and Tuesday night, would you plan on sleeping in the office? Are you looking at a rental? or Hotel each night?
I would probably sleep in the office. I looked at the cost of hotel rooms on a per night basis and also some apartments (around 800/month in the area). I figured I would see how sleeping in the office was (we have shower facilities, gym, etc) and if it didn't go well, I'd start looking at the other solutions above. We can afford an apartment, I'd just rather not pay if we don't have to.
Are you sure your employer is ok with that? You might consider van dwelling instead of actually sleeping at the office.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

400 miles a week is not all that high in my book. In my own house, one son, who graduated college last spring bought a new Subaru STi as a commuter car. 19.2 mpg on premium. His commute is 100 miles a day round trip. So 500 miles a week.....which is more than you do. I've also worked supporting sales for decades, so have had many 25k business mile years. Unless the car is something really special that you couldn't possibly replace......I don't know......2004 Honda S2000?, then just drive your car. Getting another car just to commute will absolutely cost you more. The 3 things that matter in car cost are insurance (which you'll pay either way on 2 cars), gas (which you'll pay either way) and depreciation, which is broken into miles and time. You can't stop time.

If your current car is a 2004 S2000, then I understand. My son owns one and it's been stored on my lift for months. But it's costing a lot in insurance costs, while actually increasing in value.

Oh, and your family brings in $250k??? Ok, keep the S2000 in the garage and pick up an M4 to have a new, safe, fun car to drive. You can get one with a proper manual transmission, you know.
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helloeveryone
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by helloeveryone »

ClevrChico wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:21 pm Keep the current car and have your company reimburse your mileage. In the end, it should be at least a wash. The last thing I'd want is a beater in this situation.
I agree with this. Especially since you really like your car you might as well enjoy it for the long commute. If you buy and hold cars for a long time it’s not devastating to have high mileage for a couple years
retiringwhen
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by retiringwhen »

I did the same gig as the OP for about 15 mos (300 miles a week, for a long-drive commute on T-Th).

I drove a 10 year old Toyota 4runner that got 19mpg going downhill with a tailwind and about 16 the other way. There was no way for a limited time less than 2 years that it would have been better to get an any different car. I quit that job 2.5 years ago and still have the 4runner too (but as my second/weekend projects/towing vehicle).

The single most important question: Do you trust the car to start every morning you need to be on the road and is it safe to drive an all acceptable weather conditions? That was my major concern.

Secondly, that kind of drive does seem to go better with SUV/Truck type vehicles with better visibility in my experience. I drove my wife's sedan a few times and felt significantly less safe due to more limited visibility.
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warowits
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by warowits »

Maverick3320 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:18 am
Well, as with all things, life isn't simple, unfortunately. I'm a military officer - the position being offered is a definite step up for me, both in terms of rank and responsibility, and is a fairly "prestigious" position (executive officer of a battalion) for my resume. It's somewhat expected that ambitious officers will take positions like this at some point in their career - out of the way, hard to fill positions, etc.
This does change the calculus. I would probably take it, and drive the car you have.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by tibbitts »

There has to be something I'm missing here. This new job is in some remote location where there's no housing of any kind? No private homes, no motels, nothing? Sleeping in a car? Sure, I've done a very occasional night of car camping, but that's completely inappropriate in this situation, as in sleeping in an office that isn't designed for it. Buying another car to avoid putting 400mi/wk on what is apparently a nice but, well, pretty average car?
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by JBTX »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:08 pm I may be offered a position (a promotion) that is currently ~200 miles from where I live. The assignment would be for a limited term, most likely two years, three years at most. We bought our house approximately 18 months ago and really don't want to move - my wife has a great job in our current city, we got our daughter into the "exclusive" daycare we want, family and friends are nearby, etc.

Because this position is tough to fill there is some leniency on telework to the point where I may only have to spend three days in the office. My thought was to drive up Monday morning, stay a few days in the office/work area, and then drive home Wednesday evening, for a total commute of about 400 miles per week.

The thing is that I really like my current car and would hate to put that many miles on it. It's worth about $25,000 and gets roughly 25 MPG. Assuming that I'm okay with driving a "lesser" car, would it make financial sense to buy a $3000 car, put a ton of miles on it, and then get rid of it after a few years? I'm finding that the gas savings are fairly straightforward to calculate but getting a good read on depreciation is a bit harder.
That's very similar to the situation I had for a couple of decades, as I'd put 400 miles a week commuting. Usually would pay around $25,000 in today's dollars for a low mileage used. You should easily be able to run it to 160,000 miles with hardly anythjng other than routine maintaince, and another 20,000-40,000 miles with some additional maintenance. That will get you 7-8 years into the future. We have done this with about a half dozen cars.

For that length of commute I wouldn't be a big fan of a "beater". You have reliability issues, scheduling issues for maintenance, and unless you are a DIY guy or have a great mechanic the maintenance may be thousands per year which kind of defeats the purpose.

I'd keep what you have and in five years that may be the point where electrics become more attractive and have greater infrastructure.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by N10sive »

I will give you some different info from the vast majority of people here.

How is 200 miles(400 round trip) a long commute when its only twice per week(mostly asking for the many posters saying so)? My father did a commute like this for years. He always drove late 80's early 90's toyotas or hondas(this was in 2000-2005 era). Just keep to toyotas or hondas. You will get better than 25mpg if it's not at high elevation or many hills. It's a long commute if you are doing it daily but not after days of rest(unless you plan to work long stressful hours while you are there).

If you have any mechanical aptitude you can search now for a nice working vehicle preferably one owner. I last bought a 2000 civic a few years ago(although from a friend who's mom owned it and he was a mechanic) with 245k miles for $2300. I put on 40k miles with just oil changes and a battery. I changed some convenience things like the drooping headliner but did it myself for like 80 bucks and a Bluetooth cd player. This helped me get out of debt. I then gave it to my parents as a backup car.

The biggest thing would be updated safety features and that is something you would have to decide the importance of.

I drive 15k miles a year not including my commute. Although my commute is only 5 miles (10 RT) by choice. The other miles are vacations and getting out to mountains every weekend. If your similar to that you would be putting a lot of miles on your newer vehicle.

It might not be worth it though depending on how much more pay the job provides. Also the current used market is heavily inflated but I still think you can find something decent for 3k just will take a longer time if you have that to spare. If not maybe bump up to 5k. Also depends on where you live.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by kj10 »

warowits wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:39 pm
Maverick3320 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:25 pm
warowits wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 pm Ignoring the obvious questions and concerns your post raises and just focusing on what you are talking about, I would say I don’t think you could find a 3k car that would be reliable for that trip. Beater cars have gone up in value significantly in the last year. How big a deal is it if you miss work for car trouble? Sometimes when people pay you more they expect more out of you, including that you don’t cheap out and buy an unreliable car.

If it were me I might get one in the 10k-12k range, and maybe sell your other one. Then buy a car you like again when the commute is over.
By "obvious questions or concerns" are you referring to what other posters have said - safety concerns, etc?
You are married with at least one child, and you are thinking of taking a job 200 miles away from home, and spending at least 2 nights a week sleeping away from home. The first 10-15k in pay raise isn't a pay raise at all, it will go strait to car depreciation and take out meals, by necessity. If you have to rent a room to sleep in 2 nights a week it is even worse, more like 20k-25k of your raise gone.

You are also hoping this telecommute flexibility lasts 2-3 years, but it doesn't seem set in stone. I have noticed a growing discontent with workers who 'telecommute' in mixed offices. You think that you are really going out of the way for your company by driving 200 miles, but to the people at that location you are the guy who only bothers to come in to work 3 days a week. Depending on the jobsite this may not be applicable.

Most importantly it seems like you are pushing a large amount of child rearing work off onto your spouse, during the years when it is still hard work. Just how big is this raise?
+1

Is the raise worth the loss of all of that time with your child and spouse?
Valuethinker
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Valuethinker »

Maverick3320 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:18 am
warowits wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:39 pm
Maverick3320 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:25 pm
warowits wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 pm Ignoring the obvious questions and concerns your post raises and just focusing on what you are talking about, I would say I don’t think you could find a 3k car that would be reliable for that trip. Beater cars have gone up in value significantly in the last year. How big a deal is it if you miss work for car trouble? Sometimes when people pay you more they expect more out of you, including that you don’t cheap out and buy an unreliable car.

If it were me I might get one in the 10k-12k range, and maybe sell your other one. Then buy a car you like again when the commute is over.
By "obvious questions or concerns" are you referring to what other posters have said - safety concerns, etc?
You are married with at least one child, and you are thinking of taking a job 200 miles away from home, and spending at least 2 nights a week sleeping away from home. The first 10-15k in pay raise isn't a pay raise at all, it will go strait to car depreciation and take out meals, by necessity. If you have to rent a room to sleep in 2 nights a week it is even worse, more like 20k-25k of your raise gone.

You are also hoping this telecommute flexibility lasts 2-3 years, but it doesn't seem set in stone. I have noticed a growing discontent with workers who 'telecommute' in mixed offices. You think that you are really going out of the way for your company by driving 200 miles, but to the people at that location you are the guy who only bothers to come in to work 3 days a week. Depending on the jobsite this may not be applicable.

Most importantly it seems like you are pushing a large amount of child rearing work off onto your spouse, during the years when it is still hard work. Just how big is this raise?
Well, as with all things, life isn't simple, unfortunately. I'm a military officer - the position being offered is a definite step up for me, both in terms of rank and responsibility, and is a fairly "prestigious" position (executive officer of a battalion) for my resume. It's somewhat expected that ambitious officers will take positions like this at some point in their career - out of the way, hard to fill positions, etc. Officers are expected to only spend 2-3 years in each position and our careers are managed to keep it that way - I have yet to see an officer spend more than three years in any position anywhere. Two years in a position is closer to the norm, and in some cases even 18 months for hardship posts or for significant life events (if I had another child, I think leadership would understand me wanting to come back closer to home). Perhaps most importantly, my current leadership has been extremely supportive of my career and I do feel a sense of loyalty. Almost everything I've asked for - remote work, time off for childcare reasons, etc - they have supported with no questions asked. I feel very fortunate to have a career like this.

This is a fairly remote location and the majority of the office workers telecommute often because the positions are hard to fill. I've already talked to the unit leadership at the new location and they brought up the expectation of "three days a week physically in the office", and I was actually warned that if I came into the position and tried to change that expectation and have people physically in the office more often, I may have a mutiny on my hands. I'm of the firm belief that if the work is getting done, I don't mind if its done from home, especially if it raises the qualify of life for folks.

I'm certainly not doing this for the money - we are financially secure for the most part. Selling it to my wife has been the hard part, but the fact that the Army pays for 100% of family healthcare, 60% of our childcare costs, and will allow me to retire in ~10 years or so with a 50% pension for life does help smooth things over a bit. Our combined income is approximately $250k/year and our savings rate is hovering around 50% so we've discussed having some part-time help in the evenings during this next few years as well.

Overall, even with a pay raise our savings rate may dip from 50% a year to 40% a year, and in the short term it would be somewhat of a challenge. But in the longer term I think it's a net win.

EDIT: to answer some other questions, my wife has her own vehicle - a 2019 Honda CR-V that we paid cash for. My current car has blind spot monitoring, auto cruise control, lane control, etc. Basically I like my current car so much that I would hate to "run it down" early in it's life, but it looks like the overwhelming consensus is just to use that vehicle, which does make sense the more I think about it.
XO is a serious job.

US Army is "up or out"? That means you take this promotion or you jeopardise the career?

Everyone I know who has left the British, Canadian or American army does not miss the BS. But they do miss the people, the camaraderie and the sense of commitment the military brings.

This is a good position and you should probably take it.

Make sure you have a decent, safe vehicle.

BTW in terms of staying over, this screams "Airbnb" at least once covid restrictions are relaxed? And being US Mil you will have already had your shots?

You will meet some nice people doing Airbnb.

[Edited not relevant]
Last edited by Valuethinker on Fri May 14, 2021 4:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
gogreen
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by gogreen »

Maverick3320 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:58 am
Andyrunner wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:31 pm To me, it would be too risky to buy a $3,000 car and drive 200 miles each way. You don't get much for $3,000 these days. I'd be concerned about it breaking down halfway between home and the office.

Also Monday and Tuesday night, would you plan on sleeping in the office? Are you looking at a rental? or Hotel each night?
I would probably sleep in the office. I looked at the cost of hotel rooms on a per night basis and also some apartments (around 800/month in the area). I figured I would see how sleeping in the office was (we have shower facilities, gym, etc) and if it didn't go well, I'd start looking at the other solutions above. We can afford an apartment, I'd just rather not pay if we don't have to.
So you're already in a good situation form financial perspective but going to sleep in the office few nights per week while being 200 miles away from your wife&kids? I'd definitely skip this 'experience'
260chrisb
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by 260chrisb »

delamer wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:12 am
260chrisb wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:40 am
delamer wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:48 pm
tibbitts wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:36 pm
260chrisb wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:29 pm

A "beater" car is loosely defined and vague, nearly every car built in the past 15 has plenty of "state of the art" safety features, and driving 20K a year is not that much driving.
Lots of cars built in the last 15yrs don't have rear-view cameras or sensors, which I'd consider safety features. 20k a year is an extraordinarily large amount of driving given that the last average I saw, I believe pre-pandemic, was 14k miles per year. My two cars averaged only about 500mi each over the past year, due partly to the pandemic.
I’d also not drive long distances without blind-spot monitoring, which isn’t universally available.

There is a big difference between driving a 200-mile trip twice a week, versus driving, for example, 10 20-mile trips like you might in a typical commute. Same total mileage, very different experiences.

Also, $3000 is neither loosely defined or vague.
Your point is well taken and I appreciate it, yes 3K is pretty defined and I'm pretty sure when the OP shops for cars in that segment he's not going to be a buyer. Having said that the assumption is that a 200 mile trip will not be in city traffic but instead mostly on the highway where "state of the art" safety features like blind spot monitoring are way less important. We all have different levels of driving skills and driving awareness. I've been driving for over 40 years, have never had an accident, (oh God, here I go sounding old!) :D have driven over 1M miles, and have never had a car with blind spot monitoring or many of the other features that we've been sold as "can't live without" costly additions to the cost of our cars. My current daily driver is a 2011 Toyota and while it does have a backup camera (that is useless) it doesn't have blind spot monitoring and has been just fine. It does have three mirrors; thus eliminating said blind spots.
I’ve had my license for 51 years, so I am pretty old — not only sounding. :D I’ve had one accident about 25 years ago when I hit a pole at the end of a parking space that I was backing out of. Never with another vehicle involved.

I’ll venture that if you’ve never driven a car with blind spot monitors that you don’t know what you are missing. The feature comes in very handy in high-speed traffic when other drivers are changing lanes and when I want to do so. Highway driving is much more fraught than travelling local roads in my area.

We all got along for many, many years with just brake lights and turn signals. We also got along without cell phones, microwave ovens, and the Internet. But my life is better having those things in it, just like it is with blind spot monitors.
Actually I have driven a car with that technology and do appreciate it and frankly for the vast majority of folks it's a good thing that it exists. Especially for older or inattentive drivers. While I am getting older, I'm not an inattentive driver and frankly the total opposite. I watch my Father drive and wish his car had it as he's 85 and isn't as attentive as he once was or needs to be.
furb
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by furb »

I drove a 1995 Accord almost 20k miles on turnpikes and interstates across PA I bought wrecked for $125 and barely repaired. Non working abs, airbags blown, heat only worked on defrost and was just hot enough to keep the windshield cleared. Before that was a 98 Crv I bought with 196k and now has 253k on it. I have nicer vehicles but they don’t get driven much. Get AAA and go. A new car can break down just like a new one. If you have good wipers and good tires you’ll be fine. Many people argue with my logic but they are the ones with a car sitting that they owe money on waiting on repairs. You have a nice car. If the beater doesn’t start drive the Lincoln. I have eight vehicles so usually something starts. As far as blind spots get the stick on mirrors and listen for horns.
gator15
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by gator15 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:28 am 400 miles a week is not all that high in my book. In my own house, one son, who graduated college last spring bought a new Subaru STi as a commuter car. 19.2 mpg on premium. His commute is 100 miles a day round trip. So 500 miles a week.....which is more than you do. I've also worked supporting sales for decades, so have had many 25k business mile years. Unless the car is something really special that you couldn't possibly replace......I don't know......2004 Honda S2000?, then just drive your car. Getting another car just to commute will absolutely cost you more. The 3 things that matter in car cost are insurance (which you'll pay either way on 2 cars), gas (which you'll pay either way) and depreciation, which is broken into miles and time. You can't stop time.

If your current car is a 2004 S2000, then I understand. My son owns one and it's been stored on my lift for months. But it's costing a lot in insurance costs, while actually increasing in value.

Oh, and your family brings in $250k??? Ok, keep the S2000 in the garage and pick up an M4 to have a new, safe, fun car to drive. You can get one with a proper manual transmission, you know.
I like this post. I commuted 750 miles a week. Probably should have gotten something fun to drive for the commute.
calwatch
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by calwatch »

The MKZ is fine and gets reasonable gas mileage. If it was a F-150 or Corvette, sure, but the MKZ is comfortable, is late enough to have necessary safety features, and reliable. The CRV might do slightly better but you would need to nudge it away from your wife. I get that you are a military man and have probably slept in all sorts of challenging circumstances that us civilians would probably never want to be in, but I don't think there's anything to prove by sleeping in the office and/or car, especially given the decisions that you make. I would look into temporary AirBNB rooms and/or quality motels so that you get the proper sleep to do your job. And thank you for defending our country.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Valuethinker »

calwatch wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:24 am The MKZ is fine and gets reasonable gas mileage. If it was a F-150 or Corvette, sure, but the MKZ is comfortable, is late enough to have necessary safety features, and reliable. The CRV might do slightly better but you would need to nudge it away from your wife. I get that you are a military man and have probably slept in all sorts of challenging circumstances that us civilians would probably never want to be in, but I don't think there's anything to prove by sleeping in the office and/or car, especially given the decisions that you make. I would look into temporary AirBNB rooms and/or quality motels so that you get the proper sleep to do your job. And thank you for defending our country.
Other than restrictions on staying over in private homes during current emergency? Canadian Provinces & UK have these restrictions. Don't know if US states do. As our vaccination rate crosses the 50% of all adults line (at least one hot) we are relaxing restrictions. However the outbreak of the Indian variant poses a threat to phased relaxation of rules.

Other than those it's not worth doing. A senior job at which one has to be well rested & sharp.

A good night's sleep is part of that.
johnny
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by johnny »

retiredjg wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:43 pm You will be spending 8 hours a week in this car, at least some of it at the end of a long day. It should be comfortable and reliable. I would not get a beater for this. In fact, depending on what I had, I might consider an upgrade.
Absolutely true. I put 25k miles per year the last few years due to a long commute. Your comfort and safety are *really* important. As far as the wear on the car goes, they are highway miles, so not as bad as short frequent trips around town.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by crefwatch »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:08 pmThe thing is that I really like my current car and would hate to put that many miles on it. It's worth about $25,000 and gets roughly 25 MPG.
You don’t make clear if you actually care about sustainability issues or even gasoline costs. But you are making a huge financial error in treating a sort of “wasting asset” like a car as if it were a glowing symbol of your self worth. It’s transportation.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by lazydavid »

Maverick3320 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:59 am Currently have a 2017 Lincoln MKZ with around 52,000 miles on it. Well-maintained, no issues so far.
This is a great car for your use case. It's quiet, comfortable, reliable and gets decent fuel economy. And it depreciates fairly quickly regardless of mileage, so the somewhat high incremental mileage you'll be adding won't have a significant impact on the car's value. Certainly much less than the costs associated with adding another car just for this drive.
getthatmarshmallow
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by getthatmarshmallow »

Ordinary cars are consumables. Not driving it so it doesn't get consumed seems like missing the point. I think the car you have will be good for your needs, and that you should spend the money you save on an apartment for the office days.
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hand
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by hand »

If you have a quality car, highway miles are unlikely to prematurely wear it out as long as it is serviced appropriately. Age, deferred maintenance, obsolete technology, changing wants and needs are more likely to be the cause of getting rid of a car than too many miles. Use your existing car for the purpose it was intended - driving.

If you do end up doing single day round trips, it may make financial sense to check out rental cars once the rental market normalizes, but may not be worth the hassle.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by ncbill »

260chrisb wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:49 pm
delamer wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:12 am
260chrisb wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:40 am
delamer wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:48 pm
tibbitts wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:36 pm
Lots of cars built in the last 15yrs don't have rear-view cameras or sensors, which I'd consider safety features. 20k a year is an extraordinarily large amount of driving given that the last average I saw, I believe pre-pandemic, was 14k miles per year. My two cars averaged only about 500mi each over the past year, due partly to the pandemic.
I’d also not drive long distances without blind-spot monitoring, which isn’t universally available.

There is a big difference between driving a 200-mile trip twice a week, versus driving, for example, 10 20-mile trips like you might in a typical commute. Same total mileage, very different experiences.

Also, $3000 is neither loosely defined or vague.
Your point is well taken and I appreciate it, yes 3K is pretty defined and I'm pretty sure when the OP shops for cars in that segment he's not going to be a buyer. Having said that the assumption is that a 200 mile trip will not be in city traffic but instead mostly on the highway where "state of the art" safety features like blind spot monitoring are way less important. We all have different levels of driving skills and driving awareness. I've been driving for over 40 years, have never had an accident, (oh God, here I go sounding old!) :D have driven over 1M miles, and have never had a car with blind spot monitoring or many of the other features that we've been sold as "can't live without" costly additions to the cost of our cars. My current daily driver is a 2011 Toyota and while it does have a backup camera (that is useless) it doesn't have blind spot monitoring and has been just fine. It does have three mirrors; thus eliminating said blind spots.
I’ve had my license for 51 years, so I am pretty old — not only sounding. :D I’ve had one accident about 25 years ago when I hit a pole at the end of a parking space that I was backing out of. Never with another vehicle involved.

I’ll venture that if you’ve never driven a car with blind spot monitors that you don’t know what you are missing. The feature comes in very handy in high-speed traffic when other drivers are changing lanes and when I want to do so. Highway driving is much more fraught than travelling local roads in my area.

We all got along for many, many years with just brake lights and turn signals. We also got along without cell phones, microwave ovens, and the Internet. But my life is better having those things in it, just like it is with blind spot monitors.
Actually I have driven a car with that technology and do appreciate it and frankly for the vast majority of folks it's a good thing that it exists. Especially for older or inattentive drivers. While I am getting older, I'm not an inattentive driver and frankly the total opposite. I watch my Father drive and wish his car had it as he's 85 and isn't as attentive as he once was or needs to be.
BSW can be added aftermarket:

https://agirlsguidetocars.com/add-moder ... r-old-car/
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Maverick3320
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Maverick3320 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:28 am 400 miles a week is not all that high in my book. In my own house, one son, who graduated college last spring bought a new Subaru STi as a commuter car. 19.2 mpg on premium. His commute is 100 miles a day round trip. So 500 miles a week.....which is more than you do. I've also worked supporting sales for decades, so have had many 25k business mile years. Unless the car is something really special that you couldn't possibly replace......I don't know......2004 Honda S2000?, then just drive your car. Getting another car just to commute will absolutely cost you more. The 3 things that matter in car cost are insurance (which you'll pay either way on 2 cars), gas (which you'll pay either way) and depreciation, which is broken into miles and time. You can't stop time.

If your current car is a 2004 S2000, then I understand. My son owns one and it's been stored on my lift for months. But it's costing a lot in insurance costs, while actually increasing in value.

Oh, and your family brings in $250k??? Ok, keep the S2000 in the garage and pick up an M4 to have a new, safe, fun car to drive. You can get one with a proper manual transmission, you know.
Ha, thanks for the advice. I definitely don't drive an S2000, but I can appreciate a good car, and an M4 is a beautiful machine. I just don't think I could spend that much a car, particularly driving 25,000 miles a year.
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Maverick3320
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Maverick3320 »

tibbitts wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:04 am There has to be something I'm missing here. This new job is in some remote location where there's no housing of any kind? No private homes, no motels, nothing? Sleeping in a car? Sure, I've done a very occasional night of car camping, but that's completely inappropriate in this situation, as in sleeping in an office that isn't designed for it. Buying another car to avoid putting 400mi/wk on what is apparently a nice but, well, pretty average car?
Not sure where the sleeping in a car thing came from. Our "offices" are actually somewhat designed to have people sleep in them - full shower facilities, a gym, etc - so I'd try that a few nights a week and if that became too cramped, I would look at a cheap apartment or some alternative arrangement.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Maverick3320 »

Valuethinker wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:57 pm
Maverick3320 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:18 am
warowits wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:39 pm
Maverick3320 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:25 pm
warowits wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 pm Ignoring the obvious questions and concerns your post raises and just focusing on what you are talking about, I would say I don’t think you could find a 3k car that would be reliable for that trip. Beater cars have gone up in value significantly in the last year. How big a deal is it if you miss work for car trouble? Sometimes when people pay you more they expect more out of you, including that you don’t cheap out and buy an unreliable car.

If it were me I might get one in the 10k-12k range, and maybe sell your other one. Then buy a car you like again when the commute is over.
By "obvious questions or concerns" are you referring to what other posters have said - safety concerns, etc?
You are married with at least one child, and you are thinking of taking a job 200 miles away from home, and spending at least 2 nights a week sleeping away from home. The first 10-15k in pay raise isn't a pay raise at all, it will go strait to car depreciation and take out meals, by necessity. If you have to rent a room to sleep in 2 nights a week it is even worse, more like 20k-25k of your raise gone.

You are also hoping this telecommute flexibility lasts 2-3 years, but it doesn't seem set in stone. I have noticed a growing discontent with workers who 'telecommute' in mixed offices. You think that you are really going out of the way for your company by driving 200 miles, but to the people at that location you are the guy who only bothers to come in to work 3 days a week. Depending on the jobsite this may not be applicable.

Most importantly it seems like you are pushing a large amount of child rearing work off onto your spouse, during the years when it is still hard work. Just how big is this raise?
Well, as with all things, life isn't simple, unfortunately. I'm a military officer - the position being offered is a definite step up for me, both in terms of rank and responsibility, and is a fairly "prestigious" position (executive officer of a battalion) for my resume. It's somewhat expected that ambitious officers will take positions like this at some point in their career - out of the way, hard to fill positions, etc. Officers are expected to only spend 2-3 years in each position and our careers are managed to keep it that way - I have yet to see an officer spend more than three years in any position anywhere. Two years in a position is closer to the norm, and in some cases even 18 months for hardship posts or for significant life events (if I had another child, I think leadership would understand me wanting to come back closer to home). Perhaps most importantly, my current leadership has been extremely supportive of my career and I do feel a sense of loyalty. Almost everything I've asked for - remote work, time off for childcare reasons, etc - they have supported with no questions asked. I feel very fortunate to have a career like this.

This is a fairly remote location and the majority of the office workers telecommute often because the positions are hard to fill. I've already talked to the unit leadership at the new location and they brought up the expectation of "three days a week physically in the office", and I was actually warned that if I came into the position and tried to change that expectation and have people physically in the office more often, I may have a mutiny on my hands. I'm of the firm belief that if the work is getting done, I don't mind if its done from home, especially if it raises the qualify of life for folks.

I'm certainly not doing this for the money - we are financially secure for the most part. Selling it to my wife has been the hard part, but the fact that the Army pays for 100% of family healthcare, 60% of our childcare costs, and will allow me to retire in ~10 years or so with a 50% pension for life does help smooth things over a bit. Our combined income is approximately $250k/year and our savings rate is hovering around 50% so we've discussed having some part-time help in the evenings during this next few years as well.

Overall, even with a pay raise our savings rate may dip from 50% a year to 40% a year, and in the short term it would be somewhat of a challenge. But in the longer term I think it's a net win.

EDIT: to answer some other questions, my wife has her own vehicle - a 2019 Honda CR-V that we paid cash for. My current car has blind spot monitoring, auto cruise control, lane control, etc. Basically I like my current car so much that I would hate to "run it down" early in it's life, but it looks like the overwhelming consensus is just to use that vehicle, which does make sense the more I think about it.
XO is a serious job.

US Army is "up or out"? That means you take this promotion or you jeopardise the career?

Everyone I know who has left the British, Canadian or American army does not miss the BS. But they do miss the people, the camaraderie and the sense of commitment the military brings.

This is a good position and you should probably take it.

Make sure you have a decent, safe vehicle.

BTW in terms of staying over, this screams "Airbnb" at least once covid restrictions are relaxed? And being US Mil you will have already had your shots?

You will meet some nice people doing Airbnb.

[Edited not relevant]
It's somewhat "up or out". I'm at the point in my career where it's expected I'll take on more responsibility, and my current leadership (bosses) have been advocating on my behalf to find me a position higher up the food chain. If I turned the job down I wouldn't be "fired", but a lot of people that have been helping me - and that have grown up in a system that expects some self-sacrifice - would probably think a bit less of me.

There is a lot of BS here, no doubt, but again, I feel a sense of loyalty. The Army has been pretty good to me overall, and I love the mix of public service, comradery, and athletics (I kind of get paid to stay in shape!).

Airbnb is a good recommendation - perhaps I could come to some sort of accommodation with a local owner as not all of my nights would be on the same schedule.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by esqu1re »

If the car is a semi collectible (someone mentioned e.g., s2000) and going up in price, it might be worth it to get a commuter car as your main car and then get secondary / collector car insurance on the garage queen. It's relatively cheap and you don't have to worry about scratches and wear and tear on your baby. I did this a while ago and it was only $300/ year for 20000 agreed value.

If your current car is nothing collectible or extraordinary, then you should just drive it and use it for it's intended purpose.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by Whipsnap »

I'd be hesitant to rely on a beater for that long of a commute. Plus there's safety concerns as someone else pointed out. And the potential for breaking down during a long drive, neither of which I'd want to deal with.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by calwatch »

Maverick3320 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:14 am Airbnb is a good recommendation - perhaps I could come to some sort of accommodation with a local owner as not all of my nights would be on the same schedule.
In this instance the best thing to do would be to rent a location for the few days, then if you like it work with them directly, off the platform, to see if they can cut you a deal to rent out the room. Given that you are not on the usual weekend rental cycle there might be an opportunity to rent it to you during the week provided you vacate and/or put away your things on the weekend.
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by bertilak »

delamer wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 pm You need a car with state-of-the art safety features if you are going to do that much driving, not a beater.
And state-of-the-art comfort and reliability. Again, not a "beater."
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Re: Does it make financial sense to buy a "beater" for a long distance commute?

Post by jmw »

1) Rent a room / commuter room with shared bathroom near the office. You don't need kitchen access. Minimize the amount of time driving each week.

2) Cars are a disposable and rapidly depreciating asset whether it is driven 5 miles a month or 5000 miles a month. Drive your $25k car as much as needed and throw it away when the cost of repair exceeds its value. Buying a beater right now to preserve your current car is like saving an open can of soda for later. If you care about money vaporizing in $25k vehicles, quit buying rapidly depreciating assets like new(er) cars and buy beaters after the current car dies. If you're rich enough to flush money down the toilet, by all means buy a new(er) car just like the Joneses.

3) 2013 cars were safe in 2013. You can drive it in 2021 and it's still safe. I don't buy the safety arguments at all. If it is a beater Toyota or Honda, it is very unlikely it will strand you even with a 200 mile commute.
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