Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

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cbr shadow
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Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by cbr shadow »

My wife and I live in the Bay Area and have been aggressively saving for a while, with plans to hopefully early retire at some point. Below is some of our information:

- Both 37 years old
- (1) Child who is 6 months old, no siblings likely.
- Net worth around $1.4M, $700k of which is taxable investments or cash
- Income: $350k combined, roughly.
- Currently renting in Fremont, CA ($4,200/mth)
- Wife can work anywhere remotely, but needs access to a major airport
- Wife is the breadwinner, makes $220k roughly

Bay Area is too expensive for us to feel comfortable buying a house, although we do like it here a lot. The initial purchase price along with property taxes in CA would make early retirement much harder here.

What we like about our current area:
- Good culture (for us)
- outdoorsy stuff to do everywhere (cycling, triathlon groups)
- Nice weather although we would prefer a bit warmer and to have a pool.
- No mosquitos.
- Great schools

I've been looking for a "sweet spot" all around the US where we can find a place with medium cost of living, great schools, warm/hot weather and lots of sun (wife is affected by seasonal depression in gloomy chicago weather, which is where we're from originally).

I think Phoenix checks many of these boxes for us, in particular the "Foothills" area of south phoenix.
Upsides of that area:
- $550k can get you a very nice 2,200 sqft house with a pool and mountain views
- VERY low property taxes. In CA we would pay $1,200/mth in property taxes for a house we would find acceptable, compared to $350/mth in AZ
- Great school district (8/9 rating)
- Tons of sun
- Access to Phoenix downtown (for jobs, potentially)
- Access to international airport (Wife's job requires some travel)

The big downsides are probably:
- [OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]
- Very hot summers (110 degrees) which of course is much hotter than we're used to in the Bay Area, and for much longer of a period. In Fremont we can get over 100 degrees but it cools a lot at night and only lasts maybe 2-3 weeks.

Any additional advice would be really appreciated. What are the upsides and downsides of living in this area (specifically Foothills area of south Phoenix)

Here's an example of the area and house type I'm picturing:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1750 ... 4893_zpid/
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Lee_WSP
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by Lee_WSP »

It's hotter than you think. Outside of the morning hours, you really can't comfortably do anything outdoors. I'm unsure of the schools quality. Nationally, we're below average, but tukee is in one of the top districts and the state as a whole is mostly rural.

It's a huge city, there's pockets of everything and you can mostly find what you're looking for. I'm unsure of the jobs market, but above 100k is relatively rare outside of doctors and engineers. We're much more manufacturing, call center, and sales focused as opposed to tech. So far as this resident can tell anyway.

Oh. And we're running out of water. So, that is kind of concerning.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by z3r0c00l »

Flagstaff.
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bloom2708
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by bloom2708 »

If anyone would move with me I'd move tomorrow to the Anthem, New River, Cave Creek area. Fountain Hills is another nice area.

Yes, it is hot in the summer, but 5-10% humidity and you will have a pool and AC in your house and car. You can be inside all the time or enjoy the outside. We've hiked in 105+. You bring water. Wear a sunhat and sunscreen. I would run in the am before it got too hot. mid-70s to around 80 in the morning with low humidity feels pretty nice.

I approve your plan and will live vicariously through you if you do make the move. :wink:
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Lee_WSP
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by Lee_WSP »

z3r0c00l wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:22 pmFlagstaff.
Costs more than the valley, less jobs, higher taxes, risk of wildfires, but yup, it's a lot closer in culture to San Francisco and Portland. It also has all four seasons.
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cbr shadow
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by cbr shadow »

Lee_WSP wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:17 pm It's hotter than you think. Outside of the morning hours, you really can't comfortably do anything outdoors. I'm unsure of the schools quality. Nationally, we're below average, but tukee is in one of the top districts and the state as a whole is mostly rural.

It's a huge city, there's pockets of everything and you can mostly find what you're looking for. I'm unsure of the jobs market, but above 100k is relatively rare outside of doctors and engineers. We're much more manufacturing, call center, and sales focused as opposed to tech. So far as this resident can tell anyway.

Oh. And we're running out of water. So, that is kind of concerning.
I appreciate your perspective. I'll have to look into the water thing, since that does sound concerning.
I'm specifically looking at the south phoenix Foothills area. My wife is in sales and can work remotely from anywhere, but I would have a 50/50 shot at working my current job remotely. Otherwise I'd either find a job that I could do remotely or else find something locally.

It looks like currently it tops out in the mid 90's at the hottest point of the day. That's still fine for outdoor activities for me, since it gets that hot here in Fremont and I am outdoors cycling all day on those hot days. I know phoenix gets extremely hot in the summer though, which is probably what you're referring to.

As far as schools it looks like the area I'm looking at (in link above) has excellent schools, similar to my area in California.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by runner3081 »

We moved here from Seattle and absolutely love it. Does it get hot, yes, of course, but our "seasons" are flipped. Most people stay inside during the winter, we go outside in the winter and stay inside during the summer.

I run year round, early in the morning. There are a few days where it is 90 degrees at 445 in the morning, but it is usually in the 80's in the early morning, even during the hottest time of the year. It is true that you get used to the heat. This morning, it was 65 degrees out and on my run, I had about 5 layers on - no joke. Light jackets are on in mid to upper 80's, etc.

When we moved here, it was done with an eye on landing, very early on, in the place we wanted to ultimately retire at.

Traffic is getting worse, but nowhere near Seattle and other large cities. With the amount of sprawl here, many people commute 40+ miles one way to work in order to take advantage of cheaper housing prices in the outlying areas.

Weekend escapes, Prescott, Payson, Sedona, etc., are all within 2-hours and provide cooler weather.
Last edited by runner3081 on Mon May 10, 2021 1:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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cbr shadow
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by cbr shadow »

bloom2708 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:29 pm If anyone would move with me I'd move tomorrow to the Anthem, New River, Cave Creek area. Fountain Hills is another nice area.

Yes, it is hot in the summer, but 5-10% humidity and you will have a pool and AC in your house and car. You can be inside all the time or enjoy the outside. We've hiked in 105+. You bring water. Wear a sunhat and sunscreen. I would run in the am before it got too hot. mid-70s to around 80 in the morning with low humidity feels pretty nice.

I approve your plan and will live vicariously through you if you do make the move. :wink:
This paints a much nicer picture - Thanks!
We plan on visiting the area for a week or so to see how we like it. I made this post so that I could hear more about the area in case there's something that completely rules it out for us, or makes us more interested in the area.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by HomerJ »

I just moved to Phoenix last December as our early retirement location. We are loving it.

Queen Creek (south-east near the San-Tan mountains).

Winter was wonderful. Just as nice as CA.

We have friends who have lived here for many years with school age children in Queen Creek, and they say the schools are good.

We've been in the 90s and low 100s for a couple of weeks now, and we're starting to stay inside during the day (Mornings are still fine).

But early evening, it cools down fast, and we're back outside, and around sunset, even though the temperature still says 90 degrees, it feels like 75 to me. We haven't lived through a full summer yet, but we visited in the past during the summer (to test it out), and it wasn't that bad in the shade, and it wasn't that bad once you got near sunset, and of course, even better after the sun went down.

A pool is an added monthly expense (or you can do the work yourself), but I think it's worth it just because it cools the air around your backyard by 10 degrees. And of course you can always jump in to cool off (or even sit on the edge with your legs in).

Like you said, property taxes are low. Very affordable place to live.
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cbr shadow
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by cbr shadow »

z3r0c00l wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:22 pmFlagstaff.
The climate is colder than what we're looking for, I think.
Looks like it's quite cold between the months of October all the way through March. Also I believe the school system in that area isn't great if I remember correctly. I'll need to confirm that, although the weather is a deal breaker for us.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

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cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm
It looks like currently it tops out in the mid 90's at the hottest point of the day. That's still fine for outdoor activities for me, since it gets that hot here in Fremont and I am outdoors cycling all day on those hot days. I know phoenix gets extremely hot in the summer though, which is probably what you're referring to.

As far as schools it looks like the area I'm looking at (in link above) has excellent schools, similar to my area in California.
The weather is perfectly fine today. Took my dog for a walk at 8 am and it wasn't bad at all. It's a little hot at sunset around 8 pm and both me and the doggo feel it about 10 minutes into a walk. In the high heat of summer, no night time walks, and we've got to get up at around 5 am to beat the heat.

People do go hiking in 100+ weather in the middle of the day, but honestly it's ill advised and dangerous. Just google how many hikers have to be rescued off of Camelback each summer because of heat stroke.

We're in severe drought and the states that rely upon the Colorado River are preparing for cut backs. Here's one of the latest articles: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 808587001/

Apparently AZ is on the bottom of the list for water, so we'll have to cut back more than CA and whoever else relies on the river.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by HomerJ »

Lee_WSP wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:17 pm Oh. And we're running out of water. So, that is kind of concerning.
Citation?
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by Lee_WSP »

HomerJ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:37 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:17 pm Oh. And we're running out of water. So, that is kind of concerning.
Citation?
https://www.google.com/search?q=colorad ... CA4&uact=5

https://www.google.com/search?q=az+drou ... e&ie=UTF-8

It's a big ol' desert and there hasn't been good rain in nearly a decade. Why is this surprising?
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by cbr shadow »

runner3081 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm We moved here from Seattle and absolutely love it. Does it get hot, yes, of course, but our "seasons" are flipped. Most people stay inside during the winter, we go outside in the winter and stay inside during the summer.

I run year round, early in the morning. There are a few days where it is 90 degrees at 445 in the morning, but it is usually in the 80's in the early morning, even during the hottest time of the year. It is true that you get used to the heat. This morning, it was 65 degrees out and on my run, I had about 5 layers on - no joke. Light jackets are on in mid to upper 80's, etc.

When we moved here, it was done with an eye on landing, very early on, in the place we wanted to ultimately retire at.

Traffic is getting worse, but nowhere near Seattle and other large cities. With the amount of sprawl here, many people commute 40+ miles one way to work in order to take advantage of cheaper housing prices in the outlying areas.

Weekend escapes, Prescott, Payson, Sedona, etc., are all within 2-hours and provide cooler weather.
I appreciate your perspective. Are you worried about the water situation described in this post, E.G. running out?
Can you speak to the monthly cost of utilities there? I imagine the electricity costs are high due to A/C needing to run a lot, but I'm not sure what the total cost ends up being.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by HomerJ »

runner3081 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm We moved here from Seattle and absolutely love it. Does it get hot, yes, of course, but our "seasons" are flipped. Most people stay inside during the winter, we go outside in the winter and stay inside during the summer.
One difference is in the northern states, it's cold 24/7, so you're stuck mostly inside all winter.

In Phoenix, the summer heat is pretty bad, and you're stuck inside a lot, but it's not 24/7. You can at least go outside at night and early mornings.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by tfunk »

My Mom lived in Phoenix for 25 years. I dreaded going over to visit in the summer from Southern California because of the heat.
For about 15 of those years, she spent the summer months up near Flagstaff.
You will be running the air conditioner every day from May to September.
I get a kick out of the "dry heat" comments.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by cbr shadow »

HomerJ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:34 pm I just moved to Phoenix last December as our early retirement location. We are loving it.

Queen Creek (south-east near the San-Tan mountains).

Winter was wonderful. Just as nice as CA.

We have friends who have lived here for many years with school age children in Queen Creek, and they say the schools are good.

We've been in the 90s and low 100s for a couple of weeks now, and we're starting to stay inside during the day (Mornings are still fine).

But early evening, it cools down fast, and we're back outside, and around sunset, even though the temperature still says 90 degrees, it feels like 75 to me. We haven't lived through a full summer yet, but we visited in the past during the summer (to test it out), and it wasn't that bad in the shade, and it wasn't that bad once you got near sunset, and of course, even better after the sun went down.

A pool is an added monthly expense (or you can do the work yourself), but I think it's worth it just because it cools the air around your backyard by 10 degrees. And of course you can always jump in to cool off (or even sit on the edge with your legs in).

Like you said, property taxes are low. Very affordable place to live.
Thanks for all the info.
Are you worried about the water situation described in this post, E.G. running out?
Can you speak to the monthly cost of utilities there? I imagine the electricity costs are high due to A/C needing to run a lot. Do you know what you pay per kilowatt hour, or can you tell me what your utility costs are and for what size house?
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by bwalling »

tfunk wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:40 pm I get a kick out of the "dry heat" comments.
Perspiration works better there where it can evaporate than in Florida where the humidity will just drown you in your own sweat.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by HomerJ »

Lee_WSP wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:37 pm
HomerJ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:37 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:17 pm Oh. And we're running out of water. So, that is kind of concerning.
Citation?
https://www.google.com/search?q=colorad ... CA4&uact=5

https://www.google.com/search?q=az+drou ... e&ie=UTF-8

It's a big ol' desert and there hasn't been good rain in nearly a decade. Why is this surprising?
Everything I've read makes it look like Phoenix is well-aware of the issues and has planned ahead...

Plus, it seems like it will affect agricultural first, not just residential use. I was frankly amazed when I moved here that there was so much farming going on in a desert.

https://azwaternews.com/2021/04/02/adwr ... iver-2021/
As the drought in the Colorado River Basin extends beyond its 20th year, we anticipate the first-ever shortage declaration on the Colorado River. The shortage will result in a substantial cut to Arizona’s share of the river, with reductions falling largely to central Arizona agricultural users. These reductions are painful, but we are prepared. We have long understood the risks to Arizona’s Colorado River supplies and have been planning for decades, including the successful efforts to create a Drought Contingency Plan for the Colorado River system in 2019.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

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cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:40 pm
runner3081 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm We moved here from Seattle and absolutely love it. Does it get hot, yes, of course, but our "seasons" are flipped. Most people stay inside during the winter, we go outside in the winter and stay inside during the summer.

I run year round, early in the morning. There are a few days where it is 90 degrees at 445 in the morning, but it is usually in the 80's in the early morning, even during the hottest time of the year. It is true that you get used to the heat. This morning, it was 65 degrees out and on my run, I had about 5 layers on - no joke. Light jackets are on in mid to upper 80's, etc.

When we moved here, it was done with an eye on landing, very early on, in the place we wanted to ultimately retire at.

Traffic is getting worse, but nowhere near Seattle and other large cities. With the amount of sprawl here, many people commute 40+ miles one way to work in order to take advantage of cheaper housing prices in the outlying areas.

Weekend escapes, Prescott, Payson, Sedona, etc., are all within 2-hours and provide cooler weather.
I appreciate your perspective. Are you worried about the water situation described in this post, E.G. running out?
Can you speak to the monthly cost of utilities there? I imagine the electricity costs are high due to A/C needing to run a lot, but I'm not sure what the total cost ends up being.
It's not an imminent threat, but something to be aware of as it can occur over a 30 year period.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

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Lee_WSP wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:30 pm
z3r0c00l wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:22 pmFlagstaff.
Costs more than the valley, less jobs, higher taxes, risk of wildfires, but yup, it's a lot closer in culture to San Francisco and Portland. It also has all four seasons.
And there is a reason why it costs more. You are not trapped indoors during 1/3 the year, shuffling from A/C car to A/C buildings all day. You are not living in an hydrologically dubious desert city with a real violent crime issue. (Murder rate is 3x what we have here in NYC.)

Flagstaff for the climate, the culture, the water supply, the safety. *Disclaimer* I don't live in either place but travel to both annually for work.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

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z3r0c00l wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:49 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:30 pm
z3r0c00l wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:22 pmFlagstaff.
Costs more than the valley, less jobs, higher taxes, risk of wildfires, but yup, it's a lot closer in culture to San Francisco and Portland. It also has all four seasons.
And there is a reason why it costs more. You are not trapped indoors during 1/3 the year, shuffling from A/C car to A/C buildings all day. You are not living in an hydrologically dubious desert city with a real violent crime issue. (Murder rate is 3x what we have here in NYC.)

Flagstaff for the climate, the culture, the water supply, the safety. *Disclaimer* I don't live in either place but travel to both annually for work.
Don't get me wrong. If I could swing it, I'd live there in a heartbeat. But the roads are extremely bad in comparison though.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

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cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:40 pm
runner3081 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm We moved here from Seattle and absolutely love it. Does it get hot, yes, of course, but our "seasons" are flipped. Most people stay inside during the winter, we go outside in the winter and stay inside during the summer.

I run year round, early in the morning. There are a few days where it is 90 degrees at 445 in the morning, but it is usually in the 80's in the early morning, even during the hottest time of the year. It is true that you get used to the heat. This morning, it was 65 degrees out and on my run, I had about 5 layers on - no joke. Light jackets are on in mid to upper 80's, etc.

When we moved here, it was done with an eye on landing, very early on, in the place we wanted to ultimately retire at.

Traffic is getting worse, but nowhere near Seattle and other large cities. With the amount of sprawl here, many people commute 40+ miles one way to work in order to take advantage of cheaper housing prices in the outlying areas.

Weekend escapes, Prescott, Payson, Sedona, etc., are all within 2-hours and provide cooler weather.
I appreciate your perspective. Are you worried about the water situation described in this post, E.G. running out?
Can you speak to the monthly cost of utilities there? I imagine the electricity costs are high due to A/C needing to run a lot, but I'm not sure what the total cost ends up being.
Family of 3, 1,900 square foot w/pool, two-story house that faces south.

Natural Gas (Water Heater & Heating) - $35 per month
Water/Sewer/Garbage - $75 per month
Electricity - $140 per month (range is $65 in winter to $200 in summer) *Going to try super-cooling this year, might drop costs a bit.
Internet - $50 per month

To be honest, utilities are slightly less here, than in the city, north of Seattle we lived in, primarily due to high and lengthy heating costs there.

One thing to keep in mind, you will likely be in the flood zone up there, so may want flood insurance.

Water situation? Nope, not worried one bit. Future generations, maybe.. but for me, nope.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by JD2775 »

Lee_WSP wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:48 pm
cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:40 pm
runner3081 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm We moved here from Seattle and absolutely love it. Does it get hot, yes, of course, but our "seasons" are flipped. Most people stay inside during the winter, we go outside in the winter and stay inside during the summer.

I run year round, early in the morning. There are a few days where it is 90 degrees at 445 in the morning, but it is usually in the 80's in the early morning, even during the hottest time of the year. It is true that you get used to the heat. This morning, it was 65 degrees out and on my run, I had about 5 layers on - no joke. Light jackets are on in mid to upper 80's, etc.

When we moved here, it was done with an eye on landing, very early on, in the place we wanted to ultimately retire at.

Traffic is getting worse, but nowhere near Seattle and other large cities. With the amount of sprawl here, many people commute 40+ miles one way to work in order to take advantage of cheaper housing prices in the outlying areas.

Weekend escapes, Prescott, Payson, Sedona, etc., are all within 2-hours and provide cooler weather.
I appreciate your perspective. Are you worried about the water situation described in this post, E.G. running out?
Can you speak to the monthly cost of utilities there? I imagine the electricity costs are high due to A/C needing to run a lot, but I'm not sure what the total cost ends up being.
It's not an imminent threat, but something to be aware of as it can occur over a 30 year period.
They are talking about water rationing here in the East Bay (where OP and I live now) due to extreme drought, so I don't think it's any different from what Phoenix may be experiencing but I could be wrong.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by HomerJ »

cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:40 pm Can you speak to the monthly cost of utilities there? I imagine the electricity costs are high due to A/C needing to run a lot, but I'm not sure what the total cost ends up being.
For us, moving from a large 3-story 5000 square foot house in KS, to a well-insulated one-story 2400 square-foot ranch, utilities are far cheaper.

We're not spending hardly anything in the winter (We used to have to heat that large house).

Even cooling looks to actually cost us less this summer than it did in KS (because of a smaller one-story home).

But if you're coming from CA, your bills may increase.

We paid less than $100 a month all winter... Expect to pay around $250 a month in the summer.

Solar panels is an option as well.
Last edited by HomerJ on Mon May 10, 2021 1:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by runner3081 »

tfunk wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:40 pm My Mom lived in Phoenix for 25 years. I dreaded going over to visit in the summer from Southern California because of the heat.
For about 15 of those years, she spent the summer months up near Flagstaff.
You will be running the air conditioner every day from May to September.
I get a kick out of the "dry heat" comments.
AC runs through October... and, well, you get used to the heat once you spend enough time here.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by Lee_WSP »

JD2775 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:52 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:48 pm
cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:40 pm
runner3081 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm We moved here from Seattle and absolutely love it. Does it get hot, yes, of course, but our "seasons" are flipped. Most people stay inside during the winter, we go outside in the winter and stay inside during the summer.

I run year round, early in the morning. There are a few days where it is 90 degrees at 445 in the morning, but it is usually in the 80's in the early morning, even during the hottest time of the year. It is true that you get used to the heat. This morning, it was 65 degrees out and on my run, I had about 5 layers on - no joke. Light jackets are on in mid to upper 80's, etc.

When we moved here, it was done with an eye on landing, very early on, in the place we wanted to ultimately retire at.

Traffic is getting worse, but nowhere near Seattle and other large cities. With the amount of sprawl here, many people commute 40+ miles one way to work in order to take advantage of cheaper housing prices in the outlying areas.

Weekend escapes, Prescott, Payson, Sedona, etc., are all within 2-hours and provide cooler weather.
I appreciate your perspective. Are you worried about the water situation described in this post, E.G. running out?
Can you speak to the monthly cost of utilities there? I imagine the electricity costs are high due to A/C needing to run a lot, but I'm not sure what the total cost ends up being.
It's not an imminent threat, but something to be aware of as it can occur over a 30 year period.
They are talking about water rationing here in the East Bay (where OP and I live now) due to extreme drought, so I don't think it's any different from what Phoenix may be experiencing but I could be wrong.
CA and AZ share the same water source, so I suppose the drought risk is more or less the same for both areas. They're planning to cutoff agriculture water here, but they're also saying that some of the cities might divert some of their water back to the farms. Not my area of expertise, but I do follow the news on this issue.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by sls239 »

That 8/9 school rating pretty much only says that the children in the school rate 8/10 for socioeconomic status within the state of AZ.

And when you say the culture is different, please remember that your child will be growing up in that culture which will impact the opportunities offered and the behavioral norms and expectations.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by stoptothink »

bwalling wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:43 pm
tfunk wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:40 pm I get a kick out of the "dry heat" comments.
Perspiration works better there where it can evaporate than in Florida where the humidity will just drown you in your own sweat.
"Dry heat" is very real, 100 in Houston (where I lived for ~5yrs) is significantly worse than 110 in Mesa (where I was for 2yrs). I was a competitive triathlete during my time in Mesa, I didn't have significant issues training as long as I did it early. As someone else mentioned, traffic isn't particularly bad (at least a decade ago, compared to LA and Houston) but there is major sprawl so you will be driving pretty far everywhere. As someone who would prefer to commute and run their errands on a bike, it got old. Of all the places I have lived since I left LA, Mesa was by a pretty significant margin the one I liked the least, but probably irrelevant to OP because I'd still live there over California in a heartbeat (not even factoring in COL).
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by captaindorky »

I have lived in AZ for the past 25+ years. Just recently left the valley for a cooler climate in Eastern AZ. The Phoenix area served me well for quite some time, but the long Summers and traffic became more than I wanted to deal with.

Last Summer was particularly brutal. Numerous 110 days and lack of monsoon made things miserable. That being said, as mentioned above, cooler areas are only a few hours away. Just be aware that the main arteries out of the city (I 17 and SR 87) heading North can get seriously plugged up on weekends.

Have you ever experienced a dust storm (haboob)? Something to keep in mind.

The housing market is crazy in Phoenix right now. Low inventory and it seems everything has multiple offers (usually above asking) days after being listed.

Good Luck with your decision!
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by Sandtrap »

Search the forum archives for extensive recent threads on relocating to Arizona.
They cover finances, culture, ideology, etc etc etc

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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed an off-topic post regarding political perspectives in AZ. As a reminder, see: Politics and Religion
In order to avoid the inevitable frictions that arise from these topics, political or religious posts and comments are prohibited. The only exceptions to this rule are:
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  • Discussions about enacted laws or regulations that affect the individual investor. Note that discussions of proposed legislation are prohibited.
  • Proposed regulations that are directly related to investing may be discussed if and when they are published for public comments.
This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (where to live).
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by HomerJ »

Traffic is not a problem if you can swing a work from home job, or if you do "early retire".

:)
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cbr shadow
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by cbr shadow »

sls239 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:05 pm That 8/9 school rating pretty much only says that the children in the school rate 8/10 for socioeconomic status within the state of AZ.

And when you say the culture is different, please remember that your child will be growing up in that culture which will impact the opportunities offered and the behavioral norms and expectations.
I do understand those points, but what metric is better for understanding how good schools are in an area? The area we're considering has "award winning schools, some of the best in the state", have good ratings from "Great Schools". I'm not sure what else to consider. My statement about Bay Area schools being good are based off of the same assumptions.

The second part of your post sounds like you're saying there's less opportunity in Phoenix than other places - am I understanding correctly? That's a definite downside of phoenix if that is in fact the case.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by fortunefavored »

I commuted there for years (from CA) - you really need to spend serious time there in the summer. It is impossible to explain 110 degree weather sustained. You're either capable of handling it.. or not.

I would not worry about sprawl/neighborhoods/crime.. the "phoenix area" covers all varieties of neighborhoods (although you may find the nicer ones are much more expensive than you think.)

The good news is you can stay in some seriously nice 5 star resorts in the peak of summer for dirt cheap, because no one sane is going visiting in the summer.. so go take a couple weeks and stay there during peak summer.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by cbr shadow »

fortunefavored wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:53 pm I commuted there for years (from CA) - you really need to spend serious time there in the summer. It is impossible to explain 110 degree weather sustained. You're either capable of handling it.. or not.

I would not worry about sprawl/neighborhoods/crime.. the "phoenix area" covers all varieties of neighborhoods (although you may find the nicer ones are much more expensive than you think.)

The good news is you can stay in some seriously nice 5 star resorts in the peak of summer for dirt cheap, because no one sane is going visiting in the summer.. so go take a couple weeks and stay there during peak summer.
I'm not really considering all of "phoenix area" but one area in particular (Foothills in south Phoenix). I posted a link to an example in initial post.
"You may find the nicer neighborhoods are much more expensive than you think" - I currently live in one of the highest COL areas in the world, so the only surprise I've found in the Phoenix area is that housing and taxes are quite low.
It seems that crime rates are mentioned in this post a fair amount so I'll have to look into that!
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by HomerJ »

cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:50 pm
sls239 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:05 pm That 8/9 school rating pretty much only says that the children in the school rate 8/10 for socioeconomic status within the state of AZ.

And when you say the culture is different, please remember that your child will be growing up in that culture which will impact the opportunities offered and the behavioral norms and expectations.
I do understand those points, but what metric is better for understanding how good schools are in an area? The area we're considering has "award winning schools, some of the best in the state", have good ratings from "Great Schools". I'm not sure what else to consider. My statement about Bay Area schools being good are based off of the same assumptions.

The second part of your post sounds like you're saying there's less opportunity in Phoenix than other places - am I understanding correctly? That's a definite downside of phoenix if that is in fact the case.
It's the 5th biggest city in the country. Plenty of jobs. Plenty of tech. Plenty of different and diverse "culture". I think his comment about "culture" and "opportunities" might be code words (for what I don't know)
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by bloom2708 »

fortunefavored wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:53 pm The good news is you can stay in some seriously nice 5 star resorts in the peak of summer for dirt cheap, because no one sane is going visiting in the summer.. so go take a couple weeks and stay there during peak summer.
We go on purpose in June/July because we are so sick of being cold. Hottest it has been is 119F although the cars said a bit warmer.

Great pool weather. We hit a baseball game and it was 85 and breezy, we needed long sleeves.

90F here with a 78 dew point is way worse (north dakota). Would I want to work outside all day through the summer in the Phoenix area? No, but it is nothing like 95F with humidity in Florida or the deep south.

All in perspective I guess.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by stoptothink »

cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:50 pm
sls239 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:05 pm That 8/9 school rating pretty much only says that the children in the school rate 8/10 for socioeconomic status within the state of AZ.

And when you say the culture is different, please remember that your child will be growing up in that culture which will impact the opportunities offered and the behavioral norms and expectations.
I do understand those points, but what metric is better for understanding how good schools are in an area? The area we're considering has "award winning schools, some of the best in the state", have good ratings from "Great Schools". I'm not sure what else to consider. My statement about Bay Area schools being good are based off of the same assumptions.

The second part of your post sounds like you're saying there's less opportunity in Phoenix than other places - am I understanding correctly? That's a definite downside of phoenix if that is in fact the case.
IMO the second point sounds like a veiled political, sociodemographic slam on anywhere different than the Bay Area. For sure there is less high-income career opportunity in Phoenix compared to Bay Area, other than that I can only assume what sls239 was inferring (and get this thread shut down). If your kid(s) excel in academically in Phoenix, they'll have plenty of "opportunity" even if they stay in state for college (Barrett Honors College at ASU is great). My little sister grew up in Queen Creek, she did well and graduated 1.5yrs ago from a solid private university and is long past launched (with a professional career) in her mid-20's.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by HomerJ »

cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:57 pm It seems that crime rates are mentioned in this post a fair amount so I'll have to look into that!
You're going to be in suburbs in an upper middle-class neighborhood. Relax.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by Hayden »

Heat hasn't bothered us. At least we don't worry about slipping and falling on the ice in winter. We put in solar, so electricity cost hasn't been an issue either.

The one thing that surprised me was allergies. Every person I know here suffers from allergies. This never bothered me before moving here.

We found a very friendly community where people help eachother. We've been happy with the decision to move here
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by MarkRoulo »

cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:03 pm My wife and I live in the Bay Area ...

I've been looking for a "sweet spot" all around the US where we can find a place with medium cost of living, great schools, warm/hot weather and lots of sun (wife is affected by seasonal depression in gloomy chicago weather, which is where we're from originally).

I think Phoenix checks many of these boxes for us, in particular the "Foothills" area of south phoenix.
...

The big downsides are probably:
...
- Very hot summers (110 degrees) which of course is much hotter than we're used to in the Bay Area, and for much longer of a period. In Fremont we can get over 100 degrees but it cools a lot at night and only lasts maybe 2-3 weeks.
I, too, am from the SF Bay Area. And still live here! And I spent seven years living in Fremont (which I really like).

My family and I went down to Phoenix a few times to catch Arizona Fall Baseball games and it was fun and the weather was quite manageable. A bit warmer than we were used to, but quite manageable.

And then a few years ago we went down for a week because my son was playing a baseball tournament in Phoenix. In the summer.

The problem ISN'T the average (dry) 90 degree days. The problem is the days that get up to 110 degrees. Or more. You go outside and it feels like a blast furnace. Things "cool off" to the high-80s. Maybe.

Most of the year is NOT like this, but you do need to (a) experience this yourself rather than just read about it, and then (b) have a plan.

One possible plan is to just accept there there will be a few weeks (a month? two months?) per year where you stay indoors all day long and run your air conditioner full blast. But you need a plan and you need to experience this to take it seriously.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by cbr shadow »

HomerJ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:59 pm
cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:57 pm It seems that crime rates are mentioned in this post a fair amount so I'll have to look into that!
You're going to be in suburbs in an upper middle-class neighborhood. Relax.
I'm not worked up about it - I came here for people's experiences and advice. Since 3-4 people have commented in high crime I figure it's worth looking into some stats.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by devopscoder »

HomerJ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:40 pm
runner3081 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm We moved here from Seattle and absolutely love it. Does it get hot, yes, of course, but our "seasons" are flipped. Most people stay inside during the winter, we go outside in the winter and stay inside during the summer.
One difference is in the northern states, it's cold 24/7, so you're stuck mostly inside all winter.
I think Massachusetts is considered to be a northern state. I was out almost every day for a two hour walk at lunch time through the local conservation lands. Usually the temp is in the 30s which is quite comfortable with a good jacket, hat, and mittens. When the sun is shining, it get too warm.
It's very rare that we're in the single digits (just 1-2 days).

One drawback of the "north" is that there's not much daylight in the winter during non-working hours. Sun rises around 7:15am and sets 4:15pm.

We do go skiing when we can which is our main recreational activity.

Still, I'm looking forward to becoming a snowbird when I retire.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by HomerJ »

cbr shadow wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:03 pm Here's an example of the area and house type I'm picturing:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1750 ... 4893_zpid/
Nice house! And what a nice mountain view from the backyard! Hope that's not real grass though... Not a deal breaker I guess.

Backside faces north... that's good for summer, but it will be pretty cool (it may even feel cold) back there in the winter.

Always pay attention to how a house is situated. Make sure you know where west is.

That house's back patio has a nice roof, but the whole west side is wide open, and you won't get much shade from that roof when the sun is low or setting. Although again, backyard is north facing, so as the sun drifts south, the house itself will give that patio some shade.

You could also add a sun shade to that side if needed.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by squirm »

Have you considered areas like Sacramento?
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by hfj »

I grew up in the Bay Area and moved back to the Bay Area after college, but during college I did 2 summer (one of those ran May -> December) internships in the Phoenix area. As far as being active goes, I play a lot of pickup soccer, and found quite an active scene even in the summer. They just worked around the heat, and adjusted the timing to avoid the hottest times of the day. Games started at like 7:30am on weekends, and there were games during the week played in the evenings under lighted fields. I really enjoyed my time there.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by runner3081 »

Hayden wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:59 pm Heat hasn't bothered us. At least we don't worry about slipping and falling on the ice in winter. We put in solar, so electricity cost hasn't been an issue either.

The one thing that surprised me was allergies. Every person I know here suffers from allergies. This never bothered me before moving here.
So true... We visited a few times and had no allergy issues. Now, 8-years in, plenty of allergies!

Still doesn't make us regret it one bit.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by rich126 »

Right now housing is crazy. Someone just offered $450K on a house and lost out to someone who offered $580K and it sure wasn't a high end area.

I had a 2,000 sq foot house in a nice part of Scottsdale and my water bill was often $190+ per month due to the pool and yard upkeep (had a number of fruit trees). AC can get to $400 a month in the summer.

The heat I think is largely overrated except for July through September or if you have to work outdoors in the sun. If you are in the shade, and especially in the evenings due to the single digit humidity (barring the months above) it is very pleasant and I'm someone who's perfect day is a snow storm. I find it to be no comparison to the summers of east coast (in my case central Maryland) where I dreaded summers and the typical 80+F with humidity.

Is the sun intense? Absolutely. Would I want to work outdoors in the sun? Nope. Nor would I want a job that requires me to get in/out of the car all day long where the AC wouldn't have a chance to cool it off. FL (at least most places I've visited, and I had grandparents there as a kid) is much much worse IMO.

I just don't see these housing prices lasting any longer than they did a decade ago despite people doing the familiar refrain (it is different this time). We are starting to see stocks (tech growth) coming down to earth this year. Salaries in AZ are not high end IMO.
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Re: Phoenix, AZ as an early retirement location? Advice please

Post by legio XX »

My parents lived the last few decades of their lives in Phoenix. Unless you know you can tolerate the heat ... I swear it shortened my mom's life by giving her an excuse to become sedentary and gain a lot of weight. ... I haven't been there since her memorial ...
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