Under $10k electric car for HS student?

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texasdiver
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Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by texasdiver »

My youngest daughter will soon be turning 16 and I'm thinking of getting an electric car for her to use for school commuting and your basic HS running around town stuff...music lessons, jobs, friends, etc. There are few destinations in her daily life that are further than 5 miles from our house. The HS is exactly 5 miles away and I doubt there would be many days when she drives more than about 25 miles. The car will be parked outside along the side of our garage directly opposite the main circuit box so I can easily cut a hole in the siding and run a 220 volt line out to a charger that I can install on the side of the garage.

Based on my initial looking at what is available in the $10k price range (and below) it looks like mostly just Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s around here (Portland metro). Any suggestions for which one would make the better HS kids car (or any other options I'm missing?) Used Bolts start at about $15K so I'm assuming those are going to be more than I want to pay. There are occasional BMW i3s for sale around here in the $10k range and lots and lots of leafs from $4K on up.
psteinx
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by psteinx »

Used Leafs can be super-cheap, but have a pretty short range.

Think about not only what's good now, when she's 16 and in HS, but what will be practical in 2-3 years when she goes to college (I presume).

An electric car with a 75 mile range would likely present at least two problems, as a college car.
* Hard to get back and forth to any college more than ~60 miles away (margin of safety)
* Hard to charge AT college - dorm parking lots, street parking, etc.

FWIW, my college daughter had a (gas) Honda Civic 4 door that had been bought for the kids in HS. But I realized it was somewhat limited for college and beyond - good seating, but not good hauling ability. So it got traded in, and now we have a Civic Hatchback for her. Very similar, but much better for hauling stuff.

So, think not just of the next 2 years, but beyond.
sk2101
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by sk2101 »

You can find BMW i3s for under $10k. It's a great underapreciated car. I wouldn't recommend it for regular highway driving though.
runner3081
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by runner3081 »

Well, you narrowed it down, Leaf or i3 in that range.

Another consideration, though not fully electric is a Chevy Volt - won't need to worry about her running out of juice somewhere and being stranded.
02nz
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by 02nz »

The '15-16 VW e-Golf has about 80 miles of range and should be available around $10K or lower. ('17 and later are pricier as they have 120 miles of range.)
squirm
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by squirm »

Leafs are cheap because the battery has no thermal management therefore a decreased capacity and shortened lifespan.

She'll have to remember to plug the ev in every night. There's been mornings when I have gone out to leave for work (and at work) only to find out I forgotten to plug our ev in.
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cockersx3
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by cockersx3 »

We thought about the electric option for our newly-minted driver, as it is the perfect use case for low-mileage commuting.
We ultimately decided against it for safety reasons - was worried about the level of protection you'd get by driving such a small lightweight car around. Maybe something to consider in this case?
inbox788
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by inbox788 »

runner3081 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:50 pm Well, you narrowed it down, Leaf or i3 in that range.

Another consideration, though not fully electric is a Chevy Volt - won't need to worry about her running out of juice somewhere and being stranded.
No hybrids for me (Volt, Prius, etc.). They might be reliable, but with minimal local driving, that's twice the big stuff that can go wrong. I think I'm going to stick with ICE for now with all the known issues than move on to batteries and charging stuff. Wouldn't want to mess with both for such little driving.

Fortunately, the only Achilles heel with electric vehicles seems to be the main battery pack. I've heard little mention of any motor or electrical issues in used electrics that have led to large repair costs, and I'm hoping my perception reflects reality.
linuxizer
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by linuxizer »

I just bought a 2015 Leaf SV with 11 bars left on the battery for $8k. It’s fun.

No thermal management on the battery is the Achilles heel and the reason for the accelerated depreciation. But most of that depreciation happened already, and you can find under-priced models quickly by scanning used ads and looking for the picture of the dash with the car on.

It’s a fun car. Priced like a compact but reasonably peppy (not a pocket rocket like the Bolt, but still zippier than a decent SUV).

Many colleges have level 2 chargers in the lots these days. The pay-for networks can be as expensive as gas—good for a temporary boost but not for everyday charging.

Anyway, I think it’s a great idea for high school, and in a few years you can probably sell it for not much less if you take care of the battery (keep it below 80% charge unless you need the extra range) and don’t let the car get super hot.

Tons of info at myNissanleaf.com
Strummer
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by Strummer »

You might also look at a used Fiat 500e. I don't know if they're available around PDX but they're easily acquired in the SF Bay Area, and could be a good solution for your situation. You'll want to find out the current range of the car (batteries will have degraded but to what extent is the question), and you might look for a Fiat forum to see if they're still supporting the cars (software updates and the like).

We had one on lease for 3 years and it was a fun, inexpensive drive.
psteinx
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by psteinx »

Beware of very small cars for a young, inexperienced driver...
MathWizard
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by MathWizard »

My son just bought a 2017 Ford Cmax plugin hybrid with a 20 mile electric range with just over 40 K miles on it for a bit over $13K. He can "fill up" the battery overnight with just a 110 converter plug. When it switches to hybrid mode after depleting the overnight charge,the gas milage is supposed to be about 40 mpg.

He was looking at a Prius or Volt and looked at 2 of the Cmaxs and chose one of them.
Topic Author
texasdiver
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by texasdiver »

psteinx wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:58 pm Used Leafs can be super-cheap, but have a pretty short range.

Think about not only what's good now, when she's 16 and in HS, but what will be practical in 2-3 years when she goes to college (I presume).

An electric car with a 75 mile range would likely present at least two problems, as a college car.
* Hard to get back and forth to any college more than ~60 miles away (margin of safety)
* Hard to charge AT college - dorm parking lots, street parking, etc.

FWIW, my college daughter had a (gas) Honda Civic 4 door that had been bought for the kids in HS. But I realized it was somewhat limited for college and beyond - good seating, but not good hauling ability. So it got traded in, and now we have a Civic Hatchback for her. Very similar, but much better for hauling stuff.

So, think not just of the next 2 years, but beyond.
I have thought about college. If she ends up going to a distant college and needs a car then I'll swap my 6 year old Prius for the EV and send her to school with the Prius. An EV would be fine for my local commute too. And if eventually it isn't then I swap for a Tesla or something like that. I tend not to put in more than 15-20 miles per day and half of that is kid errands. And my wife has a Highlander for our longer road trips. If, on the other hand, she goes to school along the I-5 corridor in Portland, Tacoma, Seattle, or Bellingham (which is most likely) then I'll send her to college without a car.

This new EV would be the third car in our household after the Highland and Prius and she is our last and youngest child. I just can't see buying another internal combustion engine. And right now used car prices for small economic gas cars are way high.
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texasdiver
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by texasdiver »

squirm wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:24 pm Leafs are cheap because the battery has no thermal management therefore a decreased capacity and shortened lifespan.

She'll have to remember to plug the ev in every night. There's been mornings when I have gone out to leave for work (and at work) only to find out I forgotten to plug our ev in.
The school bus stops in front of our house. She will learn to plug it in and if not, she can ride the bus to school.
Monsterflockster
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by Monsterflockster »

texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:31 pm My youngest daughter will soon be turning 16 and I'm thinking of getting an electric car for her to use for school commuting and your basic HS running around town stuff...music lessons, jobs, friends, etc. There are few destinations in her daily life that are further than 5 miles from our house. The HS is exactly 5 miles away and I doubt there would be many days when she drives more than about 25 miles. The car will be parked outside along the side of our garage directly opposite the main circuit box so I can easily cut a hole in the siding and run a 220 volt line out to a charger that I can install on the side of the garage.

Based on my initial looking at what is available in the $10k price range (and below) it looks like mostly just Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s around here (Portland metro). Any suggestions for which one would make the better HS kids car (or any other options I'm missing?) Used Bolts start at about $15K so I'm assuming those are going to be more than I want to pay. There are occasional BMW i3s for sale around here in the $10k range and lots and lots of leafs from $4K on up.
Just get her a Honda Civic. Affordable electric cares on the resale market are a decade away. Likely when Honda Civic goes EV.
WhyNotUs
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by WhyNotUs »

That was different than my Leaf experience. 2013, 80+ k miles, still 12 bars with 80+ mile range. I sold it for a 2020 and it was so cheap I should have kept it. The person who bought it got it for their high schooler but i see them driving it frequently as well. :D
squirm wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:24 pm Leafs are cheap because the battery has no thermal management therefore a decreased capacity and shortened lifespan.

She'll have to remember to plug the ev in every night. There's been mornings when I have gone out to leave for work (and at work) only to find out I forgotten to plug our ev in.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
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texasdiver
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by texasdiver »

Monsterflockster wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:43 pm
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:31 pm My youngest daughter will soon be turning 16 and I'm thinking of getting an electric car for her to use for school commuting and your basic HS running around town stuff...music lessons, jobs, friends, etc. There are few destinations in her daily life that are further than 5 miles from our house. The HS is exactly 5 miles away and I doubt there would be many days when she drives more than about 25 miles. The car will be parked outside along the side of our garage directly opposite the main circuit box so I can easily cut a hole in the siding and run a 220 volt line out to a charger that I can install on the side of the garage.

Based on my initial looking at what is available in the $10k price range (and below) it looks like mostly just Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s around here (Portland metro). Any suggestions for which one would make the better HS kids car (or any other options I'm missing?) Used Bolts start at about $15K so I'm assuming those are going to be more than I want to pay. There are occasional BMW i3s for sale around here in the $10k range and lots and lots of leafs from $4K on up.
Just get her a Honda Civic. Affordable electric cares on the resale market are a decade away. Likely when Honda Civic goes EV.
But that's really not true today. Modern used gas cars less than 10 years old that are in good shape are pretty expensive. For example, comparing 6 year old cars with moderate mileage:

Here's a 2015 Honda Civic with 63,000 miles for $15 grand: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/2HGFG3B83FH512075 Most of the 2015 Honda Civics on Carfax in my area go for between $13K and $15K

Here's a 2015 Nissan Leaf with 36,000 miles for $9,700: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1N4AZ0CP3FC329078 and if you are going to spend $15 grand on a used car, here is a 2018 Leaf with only 12,000 miles for $15,700: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1N4AZ1CP0JC301317

And here is a 2014 BMW i3 with 27,000 miles for $11,900: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/WBY1Z2C54EV285937
Pdxnative
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by Pdxnative »

The leaf is perfect for this. If your daughter can remember to plug in her phone at night she’ll have no trouble remembering to plug in the car (and for what you’re describing, she’ll be okay if she forgets for a few days in a row). They’re basic cars but fun to drive and have low maintenance costs. Perfect for a new driver.

We have a 2015 Leaf S and have no noticeable loss in range. I wouldn’t worry about that too much. Mynissanleaf.com is a good resource for understanding the different model years and things to watch out for. Personally I wouldn’t go older than 2014 due to some battery issues. But I’d think a 2014-16 would land in your price range and would work well. No way would I buy a used civic over a leaf for the driving pattern you’re talking about.

I’d check out your state’s ev incentives, too.
linuxizer
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by linuxizer »

Old truths take a long time to change. The Leaf *looks* like a lightweight econobox, but it weighs 3300lbs...as much as the V8 land yacht I drove in the 90s. And it’s massively safer. And much torquier off the line. And Japanese build quality combined with many fewer moving parts to wear out.

If the range works for you, this is the current Bogleheads-approved car. It cost literally half of what an equivalent year and range Camry does.
stoptothink
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by stoptothink »

texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:56 pm
Monsterflockster wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:43 pm
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:31 pm My youngest daughter will soon be turning 16 and I'm thinking of getting an electric car for her to use for school commuting and your basic HS running around town stuff...music lessons, jobs, friends, etc. There are few destinations in her daily life that are further than 5 miles from our house. The HS is exactly 5 miles away and I doubt there would be many days when she drives more than about 25 miles. The car will be parked outside along the side of our garage directly opposite the main circuit box so I can easily cut a hole in the siding and run a 220 volt line out to a charger that I can install on the side of the garage.

Based on my initial looking at what is available in the $10k price range (and below) it looks like mostly just Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s around here (Portland metro). Any suggestions for which one would make the better HS kids car (or any other options I'm missing?) Used Bolts start at about $15K so I'm assuming those are going to be more than I want to pay. There are occasional BMW i3s for sale around here in the $10k range and lots and lots of leafs from $4K on up.
Just get her a Honda Civic. Affordable electric cares on the resale market are a decade away. Likely when Honda Civic goes EV.
But that's really not true today. Modern used gas cars less than 10 years old that are in good shape are pretty expensive. For example, comparing 6 year old cars with moderate mileage:

Here's a 2015 Honda Civic with 63,000 miles for $15 grand: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/2HGFG3B83FH512075 Most of the 2015 Honda Civics on Carfax in my area go for between $13K and $15K

Here's a 2015 Nissan Leaf with 36,000 miles for $9,700: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1N4AZ0CP3FC329078 and if you are going to spend $15 grand on a used car, here is a 2018 Leaf with only 12,000 miles for $15,700: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1N4AZ1CP0JC301317

And here is a 2014 BMW i3 with 27,000 miles for $11,900: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/WBY1Z2C54EV285937
+1. Lightly used EVs are cheaper than comparable age/mileage ICE econoboxes, at least around here. If it meets your usage needs, an EV is the way to go at this pricepoint.
02nz
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by 02nz »

cockersx3 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:38 pm We thought about the electric option for our newly-minted driver, as it is the perfect use case for low-mileage commuting.
We ultimately decided against it for safety reasons - was worried about the level of protection you'd get by driving such a small lightweight car around. Maybe something to consider in this case?
Electric cars are almost always HEAVIER than equivalent ICE vehicles of the same size/category. There are crash test ratings available from IIHS and NHTSA - some EVs do better than others but they are certainly not worse as a whole than ICE vehicles.
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by jpelder »

Looks like you have a good plan that includes a long-term swap with the Prius. Find her an old Nissan Leaf
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by jpelder »

Looks like you have a good plan that includes a long-term swap with the Prius. Find her an old Nissan Leaf
squirm
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by squirm »

WhyNotUs wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:52 pm That was different than my Leaf experience. 2013, 80+ k miles, still 12 bars with 80+ mile range. I sold it for a 2020 and it was so cheap I should have kept it. The person who bought it got it for their high schooler but i see them driving it frequently as well. :D
squirm wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:24 pm Leafs are cheap because the battery has no thermal management therefore a decreased capacity and shortened lifespan.

She'll have to remember to plug the ev in every night. There's been mornings when I have gone out to leave for work (and at work) only to find out I forgotten to plug our ev in.
Areas where is hot, really impact that battery.
squirm
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by squirm »

texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:07 pm
squirm wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:24 pm Leafs are cheap because the battery has no thermal management therefore a decreased capacity and shortened lifespan.

She'll have to remember to plug the ev in every night. There's been mornings when I have gone out to leave for work (and at work) only to find out I forgotten to plug our ev in.
The school bus stops in front of our house. She will learn to plug it in and if not, she can ride the bus to school.
Awesome. You'll find a nice leaf for $5k.
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hand
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by hand »

texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:07 pm
The school bus stops in front of our house. She will learn to plug it in and if not, she can ride the bus to school.
Appreciate the sentiment, but she will inevitably realize the car is not charged after the bus has passed your house.
KlangFool
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

What is wrong about getting an electric bicycle? Especially, a folding electric bicycle. At less than 2K and with an commute less than 5 miles, you will get there faster with an electric bicycle. Or, just a bicycle.

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bloom2708
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by bloom2708 »

A Volt can be had under $10k with reasonable miles.

Consider a Ford C-Max Energi or Ford Fusion Energi. These are the plug in versions but also function as a hybrid once the electric fist battery is drained.

2012 to 2014 Leaf can be purchased quite cheap, but shorter range.
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by mervinj7 »

texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:04 pm
I have thought about college. If she ends up going to a distant college and needs a car then I'll swap my 6 year old Prius for the EV and send her to school with the Prius. An EV would be fine for my local commute too. And if eventually it isn't then I swap for a Tesla or something like that. I tend not to put in more than 15-20 miles per day and half of that is kid errands. And my wife has a Highlander for our longer road trips. If, on the other hand, she goes to school along the I-5 corridor in Portland, Tacoma, Seattle, or Bellingham (which is most likely) then I'll send her to college without a car.

This new EV would be the third car in our household after the Highland and Prius and she is our last and youngest child. I just can't see buying another internal combustion engine. And right now used car prices for small economic gas cars are way high.
Sounds like a good plan. Start with an used leaf and go from there. I would also suggest pricing out a new leaf with all the incentives you qualify for priced in. Also, remember that there lots of anti-EV folks on this forum.
Valuethinker
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by Valuethinker »

texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:31 pm My youngest daughter will soon be turning 16 and I'm thinking of getting an electric car for her to use for school commuting and your basic HS running around town stuff...music lessons, jobs, friends, etc. There are few destinations in her daily life that are further than 5 miles from our house. The HS is exactly 5 miles away and I doubt there would be many days when she drives more than about 25 miles. The car will be parked outside along the side of our garage directly opposite the main circuit box so I can easily cut a hole in the siding and run a 220 volt line out to a charger that I can install on the side of the garage.

Based on my initial looking at what is available in the $10k price range (and below) it looks like mostly just Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s around here (Portland metro). Any suggestions for which one would make the better HS kids car (or any other options I'm missing?) Used Bolts start at about $15K so I'm assuming those are going to be more than I want to pay. There are occasional BMW i3s for sale around here in the $10k range and lots and lots of leafs from $4K on up.
My niece was rear ended in a Subaru.

Not her fault. Her car automatically braked suddenly and correctly, inexperienced young driver ploughed into her from behind, having failed to stop.

Thank God she was in a (small) suv.

I hate the logic of this with a passion, but don't get your daughter too small a car. Her first serious accident might well not be her fault and may be with an SUV.
stoptothink
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by stoptothink »

Valuethinker wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:31 am
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:31 pm My youngest daughter will soon be turning 16 and I'm thinking of getting an electric car for her to use for school commuting and your basic HS running around town stuff...music lessons, jobs, friends, etc. There are few destinations in her daily life that are further than 5 miles from our house. The HS is exactly 5 miles away and I doubt there would be many days when she drives more than about 25 miles. The car will be parked outside along the side of our garage directly opposite the main circuit box so I can easily cut a hole in the siding and run a 220 volt line out to a charger that I can install on the side of the garage.

Based on my initial looking at what is available in the $10k price range (and below) it looks like mostly just Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s around here (Portland metro). Any suggestions for which one would make the better HS kids car (or any other options I'm missing?) Used Bolts start at about $15K so I'm assuming those are going to be more than I want to pay. There are occasional BMW i3s for sale around here in the $10k range and lots and lots of leafs from $4K on up.
My niece was rear ended in a Subaru.

Not her fault. Her car automatically braked suddenly and correctly, inexperienced young driver ploughed into her from behind, having failed to stop.

Thank God she was in a (small) suv.

I hate the logic of this with a passion, but don't get your daughter too small a car. Her first serious accident might well not be her fault and may be with an SUV.
Where's the evidence that the Subaru would have done better than a leaf in such a situation? The leaf has pretty good crash test ratings.
Valuethinker
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by Valuethinker »

stoptothink wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:08 am
Valuethinker wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:31 am
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:31 pm My youngest daughter will soon be turning 16 and I'm thinking of getting an electric car for her to use for school commuting and your basic HS running around town stuff...music lessons, jobs, friends, etc. There are few destinations in her daily life that are further than 5 miles from our house. The HS is exactly 5 miles away and I doubt there would be many days when she drives more than about 25 miles. The car will be parked outside along the side of our garage directly opposite the main circuit box so I can easily cut a hole in the siding and run a 220 volt line out to a charger that I can install on the side of the garage.

Based on my initial looking at what is available in the $10k price range (and below) it looks like mostly just Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s around here (Portland metro). Any suggestions for which one would make the better HS kids car (or any other options I'm missing?) Used Bolts start at about $15K so I'm assuming those are going to be more than I want to pay. There are occasional BMW i3s for sale around here in the $10k range and lots and lots of leafs from $4K on up.
My niece was rear ended in a Subaru.

Not her fault. Her car automatically braked suddenly and correctly, inexperienced young driver ploughed into her from behind, having failed to stop.

Thank God she was in a (small) suv.

I hate the logic of this with a passion, but don't get your daughter too small a car. Her first serious accident might well not be her fault and may be with an SUV.
Where's the evidence that the Subaru would have done better than a leaf in such a situation? The leaf has pretty good crash test ratings.
It is an old argument.

But a larger, heavier vehicle will be better in a crash. Also if you crash w a SUV the latter will tend to ride up on a small car, thus potentially crushing driver compartment more.

Granted it might be more likely to crash. Again, due to physics. It's harder to manoeuvre and stop a larger mass.

I am not sure how the crashworthiness stats are generated so I don't know yo what extent what you crash with is factored on?

I love the BMW 3i as a concept, appearance etc. But in the land of the SUV & pickup truck, it may just be too small.
stoptothink
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by stoptothink »

Valuethinker wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:17 am
stoptothink wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:08 am
Valuethinker wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:31 am
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:31 pm My youngest daughter will soon be turning 16 and I'm thinking of getting an electric car for her to use for school commuting and your basic HS running around town stuff...music lessons, jobs, friends, etc. There are few destinations in her daily life that are further than 5 miles from our house. The HS is exactly 5 miles away and I doubt there would be many days when she drives more than about 25 miles. The car will be parked outside along the side of our garage directly opposite the main circuit box so I can easily cut a hole in the siding and run a 220 volt line out to a charger that I can install on the side of the garage.

Based on my initial looking at what is available in the $10k price range (and below) it looks like mostly just Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s around here (Portland metro). Any suggestions for which one would make the better HS kids car (or any other options I'm missing?) Used Bolts start at about $15K so I'm assuming those are going to be more than I want to pay. There are occasional BMW i3s for sale around here in the $10k range and lots and lots of leafs from $4K on up.
My niece was rear ended in a Subaru.

Not her fault. Her car automatically braked suddenly and correctly, inexperienced young driver ploughed into her from behind, having failed to stop.

Thank God she was in a (small) suv.

I hate the logic of this with a passion, but don't get your daughter too small a car. Her first serious accident might well not be her fault and may be with an SUV.
Where's the evidence that the Subaru would have done better than a leaf in such a situation? The leaf has pretty good crash test ratings.
It is an old argument.

But a larger, heavier vehicle will be better in a crash. Also if you crash w a SUV the latter will tend to ride up on a small car, thus potentially crushing driver compartment more.

Granted it might be more likely to crash. Again, due to physics. It's harder to manoeuvre and stop a larger mass.

I am not sure how the crashworthiness stats are generated so I don't know yo what extent what you crash with is factored on?

I love the BMW 3i as a concept, appearance etc. But in the land of the SUV & pickup truck, it may just be too small.
The leaf is 3,600-4,000lbs., virtually identical in weight to an outback. As already mentioned, EVs tend to be heavier than direct ICE counterparts.
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texasdiver
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by texasdiver »

squirm wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:08 am
WhyNotUs wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:52 pm That was different than my Leaf experience. 2013, 80+ k miles, still 12 bars with 80+ mile range. I sold it for a 2020 and it was so cheap I should have kept it. The person who bought it got it for their high schooler but i see them driving it frequently as well. :D
squirm wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:24 pm Leafs are cheap because the battery has no thermal management therefore a decreased capacity and shortened lifespan.

She'll have to remember to plug the ev in every night. There's been mornings when I have gone out to leave for work (and at work) only to find out I forgotten to plug our ev in.
Areas where is hot, really impact that battery.
Luckily we are in the Portland metro area so that should not be a problem. But I will look at Carfax histories to make sure it isn't some car from AZ that was brought up to Portland for resale.
GT99
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by GT99 »

linuxizer wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:11 am Old truths take a long time to change. The Leaf *looks* like a lightweight econobox, but it weighs 3300lbs...as much as the V8 land yacht I drove in the 90s. And it’s massively safer. And much torquier off the line. And Japanese build quality combined with many fewer moving parts to wear out.

If the range works for you, this is the current Bogleheads-approved car. It cost literally half of what an equivalent year and range Camry does.
True. And they're not that small. I drove mine with the seat as far back as it would go, and I had a coworker who was 6'1" who regularly sat behind me going to lunch with no problem (plenty of room in his words). When I had a civic, someone 6'1 wasn't sitting behind me.

I drove my 2014 Leaf SV for almost 6 years. It had about 68-70 miles of range when I sold it, but it dropped a pretty good bit in very cold weather.
Jim Baround
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by Jim Baround »

A leaf is an excellent car for this use case. Also, she's not going to "have" to plug it in every night...its not a car with a 10 mile range. If she's literally driving to school and back most days, the car would last a week without a charge.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Valuethinker wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:17 am
stoptothink wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:08 am
Valuethinker wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:31 am
texasdiver wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:31 pm My youngest daughter will soon be turning 16 and I'm thinking of getting an electric car for her to use for school commuting and your basic HS running around town stuff...music lessons, jobs, friends, etc. There are few destinations in her daily life that are further than 5 miles from our house. The HS is exactly 5 miles away and I doubt there would be many days when she drives more than about 25 miles. The car will be parked outside along the side of our garage directly opposite the main circuit box so I can easily cut a hole in the siding and run a 220 volt line out to a charger that I can install on the side of the garage.

Based on my initial looking at what is available in the $10k price range (and below) it looks like mostly just Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s around here (Portland metro). Any suggestions for which one would make the better HS kids car (or any other options I'm missing?) Used Bolts start at about $15K so I'm assuming those are going to be more than I want to pay. There are occasional BMW i3s for sale around here in the $10k range and lots and lots of leafs from $4K on up.
My niece was rear ended in a Subaru.

Not her fault. Her car automatically braked suddenly and correctly, inexperienced young driver ploughed into her from behind, having failed to stop.

Thank God she was in a (small) suv.

I hate the logic of this with a passion, but don't get your daughter too small a car. Her first serious accident might well not be her fault and may be with an SUV.
Where's the evidence that the Subaru would have done better than a leaf in such a situation? The leaf has pretty good crash test ratings.
It is an old argument.

But a larger, heavier vehicle will be better in a crash. Also if you crash w a SUV the latter will tend to ride up on a small car, thus potentially crushing driver compartment more.

Granted it might be more likely to crash. Again, due to physics. It's harder to manoeuvre and stop a larger mass.

I am not sure how the crashworthiness stats are generated so I don't know yo what extent what you crash with is factored on?

I love the BMW 3i as a concept, appearance etc. But in the land of the SUV & pickup truck, it may just be too small.
And so your argument would say that we all should drive International MXT pickups, right?
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02nz
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by 02nz »

Valuethinker wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:17 am I love the BMW 3i as a concept, appearance etc. But in the land of the SUV & pickup truck, it may just be too small.
At about 63 inches, the BMW i3 is closer in height to typical crossovers / "compact SUVs" than to sedans.
vasaver
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Location: Virginia

Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by vasaver »

Plenty of Leaf Choices near you. I have a 2015 leaf s that I purchased in 2017 - and it is a great additional car in a household. We have a prius as well, but it sits for weeks while we take the leaf most of the time.

This is a good analysis of used car costs
https://www.reddit.com/r/Frugal/comment ... the_least/

Look at these :

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... Records=25

A 2016 or newer SV/SL will have a larger 30kwh battery (or an S with a "B" as the 4th character/digit in the VIN - 1N4'B'Z0CP8HC301350) If it has an A the battery is the smaller 24kwh

Something like this :

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... pe=listing

Or the SV with the Heat Pump instead of resistive heater :

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventory ... =300692176

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... pe=listing
WhyNotUs
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Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by WhyNotUs »

texasdiver wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:42 am Luckily we are in the Portland metro area so that should not be a problem. But I will look at Carfax histories to make sure it isn't some car from AZ that was brought up to Portland for resale.
The most effective method would be to ask the owner for permission to use LeafSpy Pro and an OBD II reader in cars that you are considering. It will give you a readout of the state of health of the battery that should add to your confidence. Leafspy is available for IOS or Android. OBD can be had from Amazon or similar. About $40 total and lots of fun to play with in the future.
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WhyNotUs
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Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:38 am

Re: Under $10k electric car for HS student?

Post by WhyNotUs »

squirm wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:08 am Areas where is hot, really impact that battery.

The batteries post spring of 2013 have less of an issue than before than date, Lizard pack. It is still a shortcoming in Leafs IMO but in the OPs climate it should not be significant. I was well on my way to 100k without losing a bar in a less stable climate than Portland. My new Leaf has performed similarly and I expect that it would be good for 100k before losing a bar.

Every car has some trade-offs and the lack of thermal management on the batteries is a trade-off for the Leaf. I would not buy one in Phoenix for instance. However, in most climates it is not a deciding factor IMO.
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