Buying and Installing a Safe?

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waltman300
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Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by waltman300 »

So I'm at my family's house right now back in the US. Im abroad pretty much all year though but do visit the US few times a year. Now we don't have much valuables inside the house, but I always liked the idea of having a safe in the house. If it matters, its a two bedroom house with a basement. From what i hear, it seem like the basement seem to be the best place to put a safe? I also hear of people storing things in a safe as their important things... but where do most people put their safe? Is it bolted to the wall or the ground? Can it be easily found by just looking? Because it seem like most people don't really put their safe in a hidden location?



So if a thief has access to a safe and could just take it with them... well wouldn't that mean they literally will eventually get into the safe no matter what? I recalled watching a video on youtube of a guy trying to break in different safe boxes from the small easier ones that cost 50 dollars or so... all the way to one of those big safes which cost 5 figures and how it was much hard to get into it.



Now, if you get a safe, obviously you want one that is fireproof and waterproof. So where would be a good option to buy one of these? But the most important question is what is the best location? I can't imagine having a safe being installed in an apartment because isn't the only place really to hide it so to speak is like put it in some closet in some strange place? But if thief has access to it they can just take it. Now if you bolt it to the wall, then thats nice but isn't that really easy for someone to find it as someone can just go through the walls and look for a safe? So wouldn't it probably be best to put it in the basement and install it under the floor in the basement then? Because well a thief would need to check exactly which spot it is? Because say you it in the first floor or second floor of your house... if its bolted to the wall, how long would it take for a thief to completely remove the safe? Still a decent amount of time right?



I also never understood the idea of having a safe and not bolting it somewhere whether wall or ground. Would most agree on this?


I also remember watching videos or things where people would install the safe behind the fridge or something like that... which would be very easy for someone to look for since well i heard lot of ppl hide things in the freezer etc.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by Sandtrap »

Questions:

How big a safe do you need?
Is the protection primarily against theft, or fire?
If the safe weighed 600 pounds, can it be delivered to the basement?
Is the safe for small personal valuables and documents?
Or, is the safe for large personal expensive hobby items and personal items?
Do you need the safe to be moveable and easily taken out and moved to another home or residence in the future?
Are you at the residence daily and year round?
Or are you gone from the home for months at a time?
Do you also have a home security system? (layers of home security?)
On average, do you need to access the safe, daily? weekly? monthly?
What is your budget? ($4000 safe?, or $400 safe?)

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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by jebmke »

waltman300 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:45 am I also never understood the idea of having a safe and not bolting it somewhere whether wall or ground. Would most agree on this?
My FIL had a safe bolted into a concrete slab. When he died and we had someone in to help clear the house they popped that thing off the concrete like a bottle cap. I think they used something to power chisel through a thin layer of the concrete to get to the bolts and then cut the bolt with some kind of saw. It was a noisy, messy but fairly short operation.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by RickBoglehead »

Most affordable safes won't survive a fire, either due to heat or water.

Store valuables in a safe deposit box.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by Colorado Guy »

A couple of key points to keep in mind, as you mention theft and fire protection. The smaller the safe, the less fire protection it has. The more fire protection, the heavier the safe. If your valuables are paper, they can still burn within a small safe.

The average burglar spends less than 10 minutes in a (non-alarmed) home after breaking in. If there is an alarm system, the time in the house is measured in seconds. A small 10# safe in your closet is not safe from this type of theft. Plus, it will not provide any decent levels of fire protection. If you choose this size, bolt it to a bed frame or something, just to keep it from being thrown into a backpack.

A safe that is 30# or heavier is a decent compromise of weight (non-portable) and fire protection. If you have a safe that is over 30-50#, a burglar will choose to bypass it as it is just too heavy to escape quickly with it. Over 100#, the burglar will be found in your back yard with pulled back muscles.

Rule of thumb is to buy something larger than what you think you will need, as you will fill it.

My 600# safe is not hidden.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by zlandar »

I bought a safe and regret it. They are extremely heavy and I use it only to store documents. You can scan all your important documents to the cloud.

Don't leave things of high value in your house. No bars of gold sitting in my home.

I'm way more worried someone breaking into my home when I'm there then someone trying to crack open a safe I bought at Home Depot. That's why I have security cams at all the entryways to my home.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by Sandtrap »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:01 am +1

Many affordable safes won't survive a fire, either due to heat or water.

Store valuables in a safe deposit box.
A neighbor's home was completely gone from a lighting sparked fire several years ago.
It was a large 4 level hillside home that the firetrucks and crews had a hard time getting to.

There were 3 very large, very expensive, high level floor safes in the home. The types seen in pawn shops, etc.
2 of the safes were destroyed by the fire and also the extended deluge of water from the fire hoses.
1 safe was not destroyed but the contents were damaged from the heat and water.

The odds of fire may be higher than theft.
Placement of the safe is vital.
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Surfcaster
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by Surfcaster »

Keeping a Safe hidden. Out of plain view, is one of the most important things you can do. In the slab safes are good for this, easy to hide. but they are hard to access if you access it regularly.

I've also heard of buying 2 safes. One cheap in easy view and one hidden. Normal thieves never look past the plain site safe.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by oldfort »

waltman300 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:45 am I also never understood the idea of having a safe and not bolting it somewhere whether wall or ground. Would most agree on this?
It depends on the size of the safe and why you have it. The main reason for a lot of gun safes is to keep guns away from kids. Many mid-range gun safes will be over 800 pounds or 360+kg. Those aren't easy to pick up and carry away, unless the thief brings a safe or appliance Dolley. Most safes have limited protection against a determined attacker. A TL-15 safe means the front of the safe can stand up to most power tools for 15 minutes. Anything less than TL-15 is designed to keep out the neighborhood kids and not much more. Expect a decent burglary-resistant safe to run $2k+ with the lock, delivery, and installation.
Last edited by oldfort on Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by Shallowpockets »

I have a big gun safe. It is in the garage, bolted to floor. It would be a big big deal to put it inside the house and still bolt it. It is too hard to move. It is a monster to move. I also have all my tools in the same garage as the safe. That doesn’t sound good. But a safe that size and weight is unlikely to yield to most home burglars without extensive time and work. It is a game of risk.
When we go on vacation we park our car up against the safe so that access is limited and the door would not open very much at all were it breached that way.
You do what you can.
Any safe is better than no safe for theft, fire, water.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by MrBobcat »

F150HD wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:29 am :moneybag - Found hidden safe, should we crack?
:D I was waiting for someone to post that thread, lol.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by Watty »

One thing to be aware of is that some fire resistant safes work by releasing water vapor and steam to get everything in the safe wet so that it does not burn. That may not work well for important papers especially if the ink is water soluble like most ink jet printers. Electronics like computer backups can also be trashed.

Even if the safe survives the fire, which is far from guaranteed the contents may be badly damaged.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by suemarkp »

Id put it in the basement bolted to the floor and wall. In a corner is even better. More weight is better. I have a fire resistant small suitcase type safe for documents inside the larger gun safe. Ideally, put the safe in a small closet in the basement with a deadbolt lock on the door. This will keep the casual observer from seeing it and possibly help in case of fire if you use double 5/8 drywall on the walls.

You cant keep water out, so either keep things you dont want wet higher in the safe or build a reinforced concrete deck for it to sit on.

My safe has no TL rating. I could probably cut the top off in 5 minutes with a cordless angle grinder. The doors are thick, but the sides and top may be the most vulnerable. Thats why a corner is better as it limits access.
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waltman300
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by waltman300 »

Okay the safe would be to put some valuables inside and documents. Like imagine some gold coins and bars etc. But documents as well.


I have no idea about safes ... except well obviously some are smaller than others and some are much expensive than others.


I know some safes are very easy to open from watching some youtube videos so those are useless right?


Well how much money for the safe would you recommend to spend on the info i mentioned? It would be for some documents, some gold coins etc. Thus it wouldn't be that much space needed for the safe.


It would be more protection against theft etc. But obviously fire is a concern as well.


But the thing is I wouldn't want it to be out in the open because well its like anyone can just pick it up and take it with them and spend their time to get into it. We got the first floor of the house and the basement... so i always felt like basement under the ground seem to be the ideal situation? Thus you can't do that on the first or second story of a house since well that wouldn't obviously work right?


I'm not in the house all year. Im basically abroad. Its my family's house. They are here.


We would access the safe once every few months probably?


Well I want to be able to put those documents and gold coins/bars and have it installed hidden somewhere so it would would be hard to find the safe. Is there a way to do this? Then again when you try to get into your safe installed on the floor for example, is it hard to get into? What about the walls? Well I wouldn't want to spend more than say 500 dollars max total for this job... is that duable?


What kind of things do ppl who buy like 5000 dollar safes even put in there?
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by humblecoder »

I know that I am not answering your question, but I would not keep a safe in the house.

For items that have high monetary value like precious metals, jewelry, etc, you are probably better off putting them in a safe deposit box. I would imagine items like that would be safer in a bank vault in most circumstances. Plus, since you would likely not need to access them on a regular basis, going to the bank to access them won't be a major inconvenience.

For items that have no monetary value that can easily be replaced and you may need ready access to (passports. birth certificates, etc), you probably can secure those in a fireproof box or something. Or you can just stick them into a desk (they can be replaced in case of a fire).

The one use case that I can see for an on-prem safe is for storing weapons. Those are items that you want to keep secure but also would want to have easily at hand.

If you do want a safe for valuables, you would want something very heavy or bolted down so it can't easily be moved. Plus, you'd want to keep it hidden. Beyond that, I can't offer much other advice since I don't know the specific layout of your living space. However, I'm sure you can use your imagination :-)

And by the way, do post where you decide to put your safe. Extra credit if you post the combination too! :-)
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by oldfort »

waltman300 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:21 pm Well I want to be able to put those documents and gold coins/bars and have it installed hidden somewhere so it would would be hard to find the safe. Is there a way to do this? Then again when you try to get into your safe installed on the floor for example, is it hard to get into? What about the walls? Well I wouldn't want to spend more than say 500 dollars max total for this job... is that duable?
If $500 is your budget, you are way over-thinking this. With an angle grinder and the right blade, I could cut a hole in the front of any $500 safe in under 10 minutes.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by suemarkp »

Your first issue is being gone for long periods of time because a burglar could have plenty of time to take stuff. Any safe, even an expensive TL-15 or TL-30 rated one means someone who has 30 minutes and the right tools can cut it open. With cordless tools in the basement while you're gone, no safe is safe unless you have an alarm and someone shows up quickly to investigate. Otherwise, they have plenty of time to get it open (or can leave and come back with most alarm services).

You can get decent gun safes for $500, but I can open those in 5 minutes with a grinder. Anything much less than that is a joke. For compact stuff like gold, you'd probably be better with hiding it in a floor drain, HVAC duct, or plumbing clean out as long as you don't forget where you put it. I've never heard of a burglar opening floor drains, HVAC ducts, or pipe clean outs. Maybe if they can see it in there or knew it was there, so keep your mouth shut.They make fake electrical outlets, vents, and food cans that are cheap "safes", but I wouldn't use those because I think the bad guys know what those look like.

Hiding the safe helps, but if there is a room or closet in a house that is locked, a burglar will open it easily if they have time. Doors are easier to open than safes, and they usually already have a tool to do that.

For documents, I'd get a document safe that bolts down. That will force the burglar to open it there. As long as there is nothing valuable in there to them (no blank checks, paper money, etc), they will probably just leave the contents. Portable fire safes they can take away will be taken and opened later. I know someone this happened to and their car titles and savings bonds were scattered throughout a neighborhood. This is much more of a pain for you as you need to get all that paper reissued.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by tomsense76 »

Instead of buying what about renting a safe deposit box at a bank :wink:
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by Bogle7 »

Bury it in the concrete basement floor.
We did.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by barnaclebob »

Bogle7 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:18 pm Bury it in the concrete basement floor.
We did.
Yep, the best safes are part of the foundation with some holiday decoration boxes on top.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by ronocnikral »

I just bought a safe from harbor freight. I screwed it to the wall, mainly to keep it from tipping when the door is opened. The main purpose is to keep my guns from the kids.

Our master bath reno includes a hidden closet in the closet where we will have a locked door and then safes installed into cubbies in the wall. It's more novelty than anything else, but most of the guns and cash will go in the hidden room vs the basement safe.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by anon_investor »

Bogle7 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:18 pm Bury it in the concrete basement floor.
We did.
Did you happen to sell a condo in fall 2019 to a fellow BH? :twisted:
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by IMO »

One of the reasons/thoughts that I haven't bought or put in a safe is because if someone becomes aware of the safe (let's say a maid, home repair person, appliance delivery person, etc) it would seem like that person could tell someone else of questionable character that they saw a safe in my house/garage. That could make the home a target for a theft/break in. I think about a year ago I read of some older teens/young adults coming to a person's home because there was a rumor that there was lots of cash hidden in the house and someone ended up getting shot/killed during the theft.

Otherwise, overall when I look around my house/garage I always wonder what specifically a thief would go after for a quick theft? Probably the most expensive items are bikes in the garage that I keep a lock on to prevent a quick grab/go type of theft that would be easy to sell on Craigslist, etc. Otherwise they would need to bring a Uhaul to start taking out things of questionable value to sell on the street (like my furniture, clothes, pots/pans, etc).

When it comes to hiding some documents or smaller items (jewerly which we don't have, or even a laptop), there are literally thousands of spots to hide these in my home or garage that a would be thief would not likely have the time to try to go through all the stuff to find them. Seems easy to be creative and hide things in one's home (heck I forget where I put things I'm not hiding). A safe would be typically easy to find and probably the 1st thing a thief would take.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by BuddyJet »

The time rating of a TL-15 safe is the time it would take a skilled safe cracker with the appropriate tools and knowledge of the safe design to open it. The average burglar would take many times the 15 minute rating.

https://www.safeandvaultstore.com/pages ... ings#TL-15
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by willthrill81 »

A floor safe (i.e., essentially buried under a concrete slab) can offer among the highest levels of both fire and theft protection available to regular folks. They can be placed under carpeting, heavy furniture, appliances, etc., so as to be very likely to go completely unnoticed by any burglar, and the safe door (the only thing exposed) can be made of very thick steel and have tamper-resistant locking pins. Also, if you're reasonably handy, you can install a floor safe yourself and avoid alerting anyone to the fact that you have one in your home.

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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by gamboolman »

We have 2 X Gun Safes that are also Fire Rated, see pic below.
You will not move these without equipment and knowledge.
Cost for the latest one was ~$5K including the men with the equipment to install it.
For us these are well worth the costs and the hassles we will incur if/when we move
Ours both have mechanical locks - not electronic. We do not like Electronic locks...... Having said that - do not forget your Combo ! As I did and had to pay a couple hundo to have the Locksmith from where we purchased the Safe come out and reset it....that was abit embarrassing.... ha...
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by CurlyDave »

barnaclebob wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:22 pm
Bogle7 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:18 pm Bury it in the concrete basement floor.
We did.
Yep, the best safes are part of the foundation with some holiday decoration boxes on top.
In my previous house I had a small safe bolted to the floor in closet under a stairwell. I put it right down at the lowest point so it was very cramped and hard to attack with any tool. I improved the fire resistance by stacking bricks around the safe. Then I fished a fairly large cardboard box out out of the dumpster at a mall and cut the bottom out. Putting the box over the safe and bricks made it look like just a box of old junk.

I have known people who had expensive safes professionally installed and then "professionally" burglarized several months later. Safe installation is a DIY job if at all possible.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by Shalom Aleichem »

Hi.
The first thing is to learn about safes.
I am in SoCal. Dean’s safes is an amazing place. Contact them. They spent around an hour with me teaching everything a consumer needs to know about buying a safe.
Thieves will break into any safe, given enough time. The purpose of the safe re theft then is to make it take long enough they choose to leave before opening it. Same goes for fire. Every safe will fail eventually. Your goal is to keep your valuables safe for “long enough.” Given the above, the safe needs to be hidden. If you are serious about keeping valuables safe it also means a full size steel safe bolted to the ground.
The ones you buy from Costco are for keeping children out of things, not to keep thieves or fire out in any meaningful way.
If you are not in California find a serious local safe store and spend an hour speaking with them.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by willthrill81 »

CurlyDave wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:38 amSafe installation is a DIY job if at all possible.
Absolutely. And if you can, you should try to buy the safe anonymously (e.g., locally via cash).
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by anon_investor »

Aside from a giant monster save or something burried in concrete, is there anything reasonable to protect paper documents from fire? Are those fire document boxes or small safes that are a few hundred $ effective at all?
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Bogleheads:

If a burglar breaks in, puts a gun to your head, and then orders you to open your safe, don't forget the combination.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by abuss368 »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:08 pm Bogleheads:

If a burglar breaks in, puts a gun to your head, and then orders you to open your safe, don't forget the combination.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom:“Successful investing doesn’t require sophistication and complexity; all that’s necessary is a healthy dose of common sense.”
Excellent point.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by oldfort »

BuddyJet wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:33 pm The time rating of a TL-15 safe is the time it would take a skilled safe cracker with the appropriate tools and knowledge of the safe design to open it. The average burglar would take many times the 15 minute rating.

https://www.safeandvaultstore.com/pages ... ings#TL-15
Skilled safe cracker and knowledge of safe design matters less than you think. If the thief doesn't care about destroying the safe, brute force with an angle grinder will create a hole. It's Hollywood which creates an illusion safecracking is a complex engineering problem.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by BuddyJet »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:08 pm Bogleheads:

If a burglar breaks in, puts a gun to your head, and then orders you to open your safe, don't forget the combination.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom:“Successful investing doesn’t require sophistication and complexity; all that’s necessary is a healthy dose of common sense.”
Or even better, have a safe with a duress opening code that opens the safe but also sends a silent alarm.

https://casorojewelrysafes.com/the-dure ... interface/
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by willthrill81 »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:52 pmAre those fire document boxes or small safes that are a few hundred $ effective at all?
Yes, they can be highly effective decoys. Put something heavy like rocks in them and place it in your master bedroom closet or under your bed.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by willthrill81 »

oldfort wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:08 pm
BuddyJet wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:33 pm The time rating of a TL-15 safe is the time it would take a skilled safe cracker with the appropriate tools and knowledge of the safe design to open it. The average burglar would take many times the 15 minute rating.

https://www.safeandvaultstore.com/pages ... ings#TL-15
Skilled safe cracker and knowledge of safe design matters less than you think. If the thief doesn't care about destroying the safe, brute force with an angle grinder will create a hole. It's Hollywood which creates an illusion safecracking is a complex engineering problem.
Indeed. That's why I often suggest floor safes hidden under heavy objects. Keeping the safe hidden is the foremost step to keeping it secure. Once it is discovered, almost any safe can seemingly be broken into in under an hour with power tools.

People want something that is easy to install and access themselves but which is very difficult to be accessed by anyone else. Frankly, that doesn't exist.
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waltman300
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by waltman300 »

How hard would it be to install a safe in your basement below the floor? What type of safe would you suggest to buy for this?


And is it hard to conceal a safe on the floor? Like imagine someone just checking the basement and trying to look for a safe on the floor or the wall. Do they just touch everything and thus once they feel something... okay that is possibly the safe? And how hard would it be to access the safe if its put under the floor?
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by anon_investor »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:54 am
anon_investor wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:52 pmAre those fire document boxes or small safes that are a few hundred $ effective at all?
Yes, they can be highly effective decoys. Put something heavy like rocks in them and place it in your master bedroom closet or under your bed.
I meant for fire protection.
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willthrill81
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by willthrill81 »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:54 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:54 am
anon_investor wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:52 pmAre those fire document boxes or small safes that are a few hundred $ effective at all?
Yes, they can be highly effective decoys. Put something heavy like rocks in them and place it in your master bedroom closet or under your bed.
I meant for fire protection.
From what I've seen yes. However, firefighters are likely to use a substantial amount of water if a fire occurs, so you have to take steps to mitigate the risk of water damage for the contents of the fire box, which almost certainly isn't waterproof or might not retain that feature in the event of a fire.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by oldfort »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:56 am Indeed. That's why I often suggest floor safes hidden under heavy objects. Keeping the safe hidden is the foremost step to keeping it secure. Once it is discovered, almost any safe can seemingly be broken into in under an hour with power tools.

People want something that is easy to install and access themselves but which is very difficult to be accessed by anyone else. Frankly, that doesn't exist.
I'm of the view most people would be better off skipping the safe altogether and getting a safety deposit box for anything which is small: jewelry, gold coins, or Bitcoin wallets. Alternatively, get the items insured, so if they are stolen the insurance company pays to replace them.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by lthenderson »

waltman300 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:45 am Swhere do most people put their safe? Is it bolted to the wall or the ground? Can it be easily found by just looking? Because it seem like most people don't really put their safe in a hidden location?

I also never understood the idea of having a safe and not bolting it somewhere whether wall or ground. Would most agree on this?
We have a small fire resistant and waterproof safe that we keep in the basement on a metal shelving unit up off the floor. The reason we put it there is that in the event of a fire, it is as far away as combustibles as I can get it and up off the floor where it might be submerged in water. It isn't bolted to anything and in fact, the key is left in it so all one needs is the combination and it can be accessed.

We don't keep things of high value in it. Those and hard to replace items are in a bank safety deposit box. The only thing we keep in the safe would be those things that would be a nuisance but not impossible to replace that we need fairly often like birth certificates, wills, passports, etc.

We don't attempt to hide it. If the extremely unlikely event a thief were to ignore our security cameras and break in to haul it off, there really isn't anything of value for them in it. It would just be a nuisance to replace the contents and likely fix the the entry point of the thief.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by anon_investor »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:58 am
anon_investor wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:54 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:54 am
anon_investor wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:52 pmAre those fire document boxes or small safes that are a few hundred $ effective at all?
Yes, they can be highly effective decoys. Put something heavy like rocks in them and place it in your master bedroom closet or under your bed.
I meant for fire protection.
From what I've seen yes. However, firefighters are likely to use a substantial amount of water if a fire occurs, so you have to take steps to mitigate the risk of water damage for the contents of the fire box, which almost certainly isn't waterproof or might not retain that feature in the event of a fire.
Are those small "fire/water resistant" safe the most effective economic solution for at-home?
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by willthrill81 »

oldfort wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:15 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:56 am Indeed. That's why I often suggest floor safes hidden under heavy objects. Keeping the safe hidden is the foremost step to keeping it secure. Once it is discovered, almost any safe can seemingly be broken into in under an hour with power tools.

People want something that is easy to install and access themselves but which is very difficult to be accessed by anyone else. Frankly, that doesn't exist.
I'm of the view most people would be better off skipping the safe altogether and getting a safety deposit box for anything which is small: jewelry, gold coins, or Bitcoin wallets. Alternatively, get the items insured, so if they are stolen the insurance company pays to replace them.
I get your point. However, safe deposit boxes come with risks too (e.g., lost, confiscated in the name of civil asset forfeiture). Insurance is definitely possible but can come with a hefty price tag. No easy answers.
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by willthrill81 »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:34 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:58 am
anon_investor wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:54 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:54 am
anon_investor wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:52 pmAre those fire document boxes or small safes that are a few hundred $ effective at all?
Yes, they can be highly effective decoys. Put something heavy like rocks in them and place it in your master bedroom closet or under your bed.
I meant for fire protection.
From what I've seen yes. However, firefighters are likely to use a substantial amount of water if a fire occurs, so you have to take steps to mitigate the risk of water damage for the contents of the fire box, which almost certainly isn't waterproof or might not retain that feature in the event of a fire.
Are those small "fire/water resistant" safe the most effective economic solution for at-home?
Most effective? No. Effective enough? Probably.
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anon_investor
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Re: Buying and Installing a Safe?

Post by anon_investor »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:35 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:34 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:58 am
anon_investor wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:54 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:54 am

Yes, they can be highly effective decoys. Put something heavy like rocks in them and place it in your master bedroom closet or under your bed.
I meant for fire protection.
From what I've seen yes. However, firefighters are likely to use a substantial amount of water if a fire occurs, so you have to take steps to mitigate the risk of water damage for the contents of the fire box, which almost certainly isn't waterproof or might not retain that feature in the event of a fire.
Are those small "fire/water resistant" safe the most effective economic solution for at-home?
Most effective? No. Effective enough? Probably.
Good thing I only have replacable paper documents in mine...
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