Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

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rgs92
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Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by rgs92 »

I am seeing houses with finished basements (walk-outs, not much below grade) with full bathrooms that use ejector pumps to function.
Do these bathrooms work well? What maintenance is involved?
Are there better and worse Ejector Pumps? (Any recommendations are appreciated.)
These are houses served by public sewers, not septic tank systems.
Thank you.
maggsmaggs
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by maggsmaggs »

Work perfectly well. Our split-level house has an ejector pump for all the basement plumbing (bathroom shower, sink and toilet, plus washer/dryer/utility sink). The only maintenance required is to replace the ejector pump when it dies or fix if fixable. Our pump is in our crawlspace which makes access not as fun, but not impossible.
HomeStretch
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by HomeStretch »

+1

Ours works fine (installed 15 years ago, maintenance free). The ejector unit should have an alarm that goes off if there’s an issue. Our plumber that installed it told us to be careful how much paper gets flushed in the toilet as the ejector can clog.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

I am ambivalent about basement bathrooms with ejector pumps. I think how well they solve a problem depends on the local area and if the house is a 'flip' and the basement bathroom was added so a higher price could be had for the house.

I live in a densely populated area with most houses built 70 to over 100 years ago. The 100 year old gravity driven sewer system is sewer and storm drain together. Big rains means some homes get sewer backup in basements. Especially a problem in the last 20 years when "refinishing" a basement into bedrooms or other living spaces (in the past - just vinyl floor and storage - now carpet, couches, TVs kids stuff). there are a handful of solutions for houses in my local area.

I have friends in other suburbs in houses with ejector pumps and/or sump pumps and other water mitigation solutions to keep their basements dry and the sewer water in the sewer where it belongs. And it seems to work fine. As a home owner I would consider this as another "house system" that needs yearly maintenance and the future Big Expense/Inconvenience when it fails.

I think you are asking a "local" question... In my area, if i was buying a flip house - I'd make sure they fixed the sewage problem especially if they put a bathroom in the basement (and living space) - something more than "we replaced the 100 year old pipes". This would be reconfiguring the sewer pipes for the whole house - not just the basement bathroom. Since fixing the water back up issues isn't part of the local building code - I suspect most of the "flip houses" have not addressed this problem - and it will be upto the new home owner to fix it (it's anywhere from 7K to 10K when all is said and done and then you need to "replace all the drywall, carpeting, etc in the basement that got damaged in the first flood.).

I'd suggest you try to determine what's common for the area (and NOT just in the last few years - as in what the flipped houses are doing).
Last edited by LittleMaggieMae on Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by Sandtrap »

rgs92 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:31 am I am seeing houses with finished basements (walk-outs, not much below grade) with full bathrooms that use ejector pumps to function.
Do these bathrooms work well? What maintenance is involved?
Are there better and worse Ejector Pumps? (Any recommendations are appreciated.)
These are houses served by public sewers, not septic tank systems.
Thank you.
Ours has worked well for over 12 years.
Suggest a very well engineered design with high quality equipment and installation. (do not go cheap).
It would pay to oversize the system a bit so that it is never strained.
Zero maintenance.

j :D
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rgs92
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by rgs92 »

Big Thanks for everyone's quick comments.

Are there any specific brands of pumps or any design/installation guidelines?

As far as related sewer issues, do these systems make extra demands on sewer pipes?

In my house that I had in NJ for many years, I had to do sewer pipe work many times, involving interior PVC pipe replacement to make sure it tilted at a downward angle, and also exterior pipe repair. It cost me several thousand dollars each time.

It's amazing how much sewer related work I had to do over and above regular public sewer charges of $50-100 a month and some extra assessments.
HereToLearn
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by HereToLearn »

I have had an ejector pump in my partially above ground basement for 22 years. I had a few issues with it for several years, including a failure while the washing machine was running, so at least the water that escaped was only washing machine water. I cannot remember the timeline, but after a couple of these failures, I had the pump replaced, and have not given it a thought in 15 years.

I have a full bathroom downstairs but it is used infrequently. The washing machine is used almost daily, so the pump sees regular use.

I do not know how often these fail, but I am glad that I had the basement carpet installed without padding as that would have been a hassle to replace.

Re: your question about sewer pipes. I haven't done anything to the pipes leading from the house to the sewer line in the street. My sewer assessment is a function of my water bill.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by Bogle7 »

Ours has been working for 10 years.
I have no idea what brand/model it is.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by lazydavid »

Every home that I've ever lived in, save one (which was on a slab) has had an ejector pump for ALL of the sewage, not just what came from the basement. They work fine. As others have said, don't go cheap. I would recommend a cast iron unit, and Zoeller is my go-to brand. They last pretty much forever.

Interestingly enough, the slab home with "traditional" gravity-drain sewer is the only one I've ever had sewer issues in.
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rgs92
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by rgs92 »

Thanks everyone for the pretty good news on this front.
Best to everybody.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by Californiastate »

I wouldn't have a problem installing a quality macerating system. It's like anything else. You buy crap and all you ever have is crap.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by queso »

I have two of them in my house and have replaced them each once after they failed due to old age. The first one I was in a hurry and grabbed a Flotec from my local Home Depot. I have been told by one person that those aren't the best, but it's been running fine ever since I put it in years ago. The second one I did a bit more research and decided to replace it with a Zoeller. That one is still going strong as well, but has only been in place about a year and a half. They aren't high on the fun list of things to replace, but they are really easy to DIY. I am not a plumber, but the ones I hear most often thrown around as being good are Zoeller and Little Giant. I have no experience with the latter, but did throw in a Little Giant condensate pump a year or two ago and that has given me no issues either.

While you are in there you may as well replace the check valve too. They are cheap ($40-$50) and you will already have the pipes apart when replacing the pump so it only adds a minute or three on to your job. I don't think they fail often, but I figured it was cheap insurance while I had the whole thing apart anyhow.

I threw a cheap Zircon water alarm on top of the lid of both of them so I get advance warning when one of them leaks. Both of my pumps service bathrooms that are showered in and used daily so they see a lot of use.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by iamlucky13 »

rgs92 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:31 am I am seeing houses with finished basements (walk-outs, not much below grade) with full bathrooms that use ejector pumps to function.
Do these bathrooms work well? What maintenance is involved?
Are there better and worse Ejector Pumps? (Any recommendations are appreciated.)
These are houses served by public sewers, not septic tank systems.
Thank you.
Yes, they are fairly common and merit some precautions to ensure no messes happen. The installation will include a backflow preventer to prevent any issues in the sewer line from pushing waste back to your house. For a home with drains below the elevation of the sewer, I'd say it is particularly important to be sure you have a good quality backflow preventer.

They should not affect the use of the bathroom. In that sense, they work fine. It is critical not to put anything other than human waste and toilet paper down the drain to avoid risk of clogging the pump. The public sewer operator doesn't want things like sanitary napkins or cleaning wipes in the drains anyways, but with an ejector pump, the problems those cause become yours, instead of the sewer operator.

There will be some noise from the pump - usually faint hum while the pump is running, and sometimes a sort of clunk when the pump shuts off from the backflow preventer closing.

Because the pump will fail at some time in the life of the home, there should be an alarm that will sound if the level in the ejector pit ever gets too high. Ejector pits tend to get sized small for cost and space. My preference would be in general to err on the side of larger to reduce the risk of an overflow before an alarm is noticed.

You can have redundancy with a duplex system (two pumps, which normally alternate which one runs each cycle so they see equal amounts of use). Obviously, this costs more.

If you are working with an experienced septic installer, they should be able to recommend a pump they trust. Grinder pumps for sewage ejection.

When I replaced the effluent pump for my septic tank (different application, but the same manufacturers typically make both styles of pumps), since I took that project on myself, I found a forum frequented by septic installers. A lot of experienced installers had comments on brands they had good experience with over the years. Based on their comments, I went with Hydromatic, a manufacturer that has been around for decades. I think they're currently being rebranded as Myers by their new parent company, but keeping their existing designs.

As far as I could tell, you pay several times as much for a Hydromatic as for an entry level brand, but you're likely to get several times as much life. To get significantly better than that, you would pay again several times the cost of Hydromatic. I don't remember the brands mentioned as absolutely the best, but I recall some installers commented about doing maintenance on some of the top-grade pumps (above Hydromatic) that were 50+ years old and still running.

Interestingly, after I did the work and was documenting what changes I made, I noticed on the original as-built drawing that the house had been built with the same model of Hydromatic as I chose. As far as I can tell, the original Hydromatic lasted ~28 years. The person I bought the house from installed a Zoeller a year before I bought the house, which lasted 10 years.

As for maintenance, most of the pumps are completely sealed with no maintenance intended. Installers offer inspections on the system as a whole, but I'm not sure how likely they are to preemptively identify an issue. It appears to me components like the pump or the float switches either work, or don't, and when they don't, you find out quickly, hopefully by an alarm rather than something more serious.
Last edited by iamlucky13 on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rgs92
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by rgs92 »

Californiastate wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:58 am I wouldn't have a problem installing a quality macerating system. It's like anything else. You buy crap and all you ever have is crap.
What's that? Like a garbage disposal for a drain? 'never heard of that, but it sure sounds like a good thing. Any examples of such a thing?
Thanks for the tip!
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rgs92
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by rgs92 »

To: Iamlucky13 : Wow, thanks for going to the trouble of writing all that information just for me. I owe you a beer or lunch or something!
Best to you.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by Californiastate »

rgs92 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:15 pm
Californiastate wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:58 am I wouldn't have a problem installing a quality macerating system. It's like anything else. You buy crap and all you ever have is crap.
What's that? Like a garbage disposal for a drain? 'never heard of that, but it sure sounds like a good thing. Any examples of such a thing?
Thanks for the tip!
I haven’t installed one. IIIRC they discharge through a smaller pipe. I’ve worked on and installed countless simplex and duplex residential and commercial sump systems. They aren’t an install and forget option like a gravity system. Do the preventive maintenance and you’ll typically get their prescribed lifespan.
I don’t have any links but a search should spit out a few options. I believe Ferguson Supply still has a retail port.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by iamlucky13 »

rgs92 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:15 pm
Californiastate wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:58 am I wouldn't have a problem installing a quality macerating system. It's like anything else. You buy crap and all you ever have is crap.
What's that? Like a garbage disposal for a drain? 'never heard of that, but it sure sounds like a good thing. Any examples of such a thing?
Thanks for the tip!
Basically. Sump pumps handle mostly clear water. Effluent pumps handle waste-water that has had almost all the solids settled out. Sewage pumps handle large solids. Grinder or macerator pumps chop up solid material that the pump otherwise couldn't handle.
rgs92 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:19 pm To: Iamlucky13 : Wow, thanks for going to the trouble of writing all that information just for me. I owe you a beer or lunch or something!
Best to you.
I wanted to be pretty certain I would do my septic pump replacement right the first time, and not have to do that unpleasant work over, so I put a fair amount of time into learning beforehand. It's nice to put some of that effort to further use afterwards. Glad to help.

Also, it's sort of like paying forward the effort others put into writing the resources that helped me learn.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by sergio »

It's probably just bad luck, buy my parents house an an ejector pump for the basement plumbing (the sewer main was 6 feet from the basement floor), and it constant had issues... our sewer line is below the basement and it makes things a lot easier
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by fizxman »

We have one currently and the only issue we had was when the pump died, the tank got full, backed up into the bathroom via the wax ring, and made a mess everywhere. So as long as you keep an eye on things it should be fine. The other issue was that I bought the replacement pump that Google said to get but it was too tall and didn't fit in the tank. Long story short, the plumber took the one that was too tall in exchange for the shorter one. Replacing it wasn't too big of a deal other than opening the tank was as much fun as you'd expect it to be.

FWIW, I have a Qwik Jon 100 system with a Zoeller WM266 (not the called for 264) sewage pump and I use it daily because I work from home and my setup is in the basement.
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by suemarkp »

Test it before you buy so you can see how noisy it is. I stayed at a relative's who had one and I found it annoyingly loud and the final thunk irritating. Maybe the pump room just needed some sound insulation or something, but check the noise.

I would also have a spare pump on hand. You probably won't know when it died until the high level float alarm comes on. You don't have much volume left after that before things start backing up (so don't flush, don't shower, and DO NOT wash clothes. The mess should be contained in the lowest drain which is hopefully bathtub or shower and not a floor drain.

It should not be all that difficult to replace, but you need basic electrical and plumbing skills to replace one. Much cheaper to DIY than call a plumber on a wednesday night before thanksgiving when it fails.
Mark | Somewhere in WA State
Californiastate
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Re: Do Basement Bathrooms w/Ejector Pumps work? (w/Sewers, not Septic)

Post by Californiastate »

suemarkp wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:33 pm Test it before you buy so you can see how noisy it is. I stayed at a relative's who had one and I found it annoyingly loud and the final thunk irritating. Maybe the pump room just needed some sound insulation or something, but check the noise.

I would also have a spare pump on hand. You probably won't know when it died until the high level float alarm comes on. You don't have much volume left after that before things start backing up (so don't flush, don't shower, and DO NOT wash clothes. The mess should be contained in the lowest drain which is hopefully bathtub or shower and not a floor drain.

It should not be all that difficult to replace, but you need basic electrical and plumbing skills to replace one. Much cheaper to DIY than call a plumber on a wednesday night before thanksgiving when it fails.
That’s the reason why duplex systems are required in commercial applications around here. They cost quite a bit more than simplex systems but you have a built in redundancy. I’ve never installed them in a residential setting because of the cost.
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