Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

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YeahBuddy
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Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by YeahBuddy »

I'm in the north east and I've had a lengthy history of unsuccessful plantings. Perennials, vegetables, you name it I've killed it. I'm pretty good with growing grass and that's it. This time I'm trying my hand with a Royal Raindrops crabapple tree planting in memory of mom who passed last year (RIP). Also lilacs and forsythias for the front of the house. One side is sunny, one more shady. The tree will be in the backyard that's sunny from 10am - 3pm. Now I've managed to keep 2 tree plantings alive for 5 years in the back yard but they are less than ideal. The fruit production is poor and the taste is way too bitter to eat. I don't care about the fruit but would like the crabapple "flower" or "bloom" as best as possible.

I've reviewed multiple videos and online articles but there are many different approaches. My approach is generally:

dig hole 2x as big as plant ball (more shallow, not too deep)
lossen soil underneath
add compost, peat moss, and or miracle grow soil
break up roots that are balled up from being in pot
add lots of water in hole
plant with mixture of native soil / compost / miracle grow
water daily for 2-3 weeks at least
fertilize monthly

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for any help!
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rural_dude
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by rural_dude »

What type of soil type do you have? Maybe get a soil test to test the pH and to give specific recommendations on soil amendments.
HomeStretch
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by HomeStretch »

+1 to soil test
- Don’t plant tree too deep
- Site tree in a spot with suitable light
- Daily watering sounds too frequent, even for a new tree. Overwatering is worse than underwatering.
- Monthly fertilizing sounds too frequent for a tree

Edits:
- if you mulch around the tree, don’t apply it against the trunk or too thickly
- if you have an irrigation system, don’t let the system spray the tree leaves
Last edited by HomeStretch on Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
crefwatch
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by crefwatch »

My policies: Water heavily twice a week for six months. Water the second season as well. I water during warm winter thaws. Don’t fertilize until it’s been in the ground a year. Natural rain does not eliminate the need to water a new tree or shrub.
jebmke
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by jebmke »

I don’t fertilize new shrubs or trees until second year. Then only a single dose of something like milorganite around the base in mid winter. Once established I cut back frequency, not every year. Some plants like boxwood I rarely feed because they don’t need it.
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earningaverage
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by earningaverage »

I wouldn't water more than twice a week for trees. As someone said already, watering too much is worse than watering too little. A good soak twice a week is fine.

Do not plant the tree too deep! If it's in a pot, too not plant it deeper than how it is in the pot already. With trees, you want to be able to see the root flare at the base of the trunk. Planting it so that the root flare is covered with soil will lead to all sorts of problems.

Go easy on the fertilizer early on- you want the roots to get established in the first few years, fertilizer will push more top growth rather than root growth.

As for fruit, yeah you won't get any edible fruit from a crabapple, but the birds will enjoy it.
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YeahBuddy
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by YeahBuddy »

Great responses. Thanks!

As for the frequent watering, that's what I did with the plants/shrubs and not as much with the trees. Maybe that is part of my problem!
I also bought a tree anchoring kit today so high winds (common these days here) won't knock it over.
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jebmke
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by jebmke »

earningaverage wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:39 am I wouldn't water more than twice a week for trees. As someone said already, watering too much is worse than watering too little. A good soak twice a week is fine.
A lot of people plant at the wrong time of year, also. Can't speak for the northeast but in mid-Atlantic, planting trees and shrubs other than in the late fall is a risky move. We normally shoot for late October/November. Water in and let nature take its course. I've only watered in winter when we hit a very long dry, warm spell in December one year after putting in some trees. Then in the first summer, every 7-10 days depending on rainfall. I taper off in summer 2 and then only water in summer 3 if there is a prolonged drought. This drives the roots deeper for natural water. Plants survived for thousands of years without humans watering them - they generally can take care of themselves.
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TxAg
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by TxAg »

When you have all that fresh dirt dug up, build a berm around the tree so it holds the water in the spot you want it.
InMyDreams
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by InMyDreams »

Your local state extension service can usually provide advice specific to your growing area. They'll know about your climate and soil (or where to test your soil). Crabapples are usually not fussy.
Walkitoff
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by Walkitoff »

Although all the nurseries do it when planting items, the ag extension advices not to amend the soil when planting. The logic is that the roots will like the amended soil better than the soil around the hole and stay there instead of spreading out as they should.

Your staking of the tree is a good thing as well but only for the first year or two to ensure the whole thing doesn't blow over and out of its hole. After that relatively short period lose the stakes as the tree needs to grow and bend for optimum strength. Also when you stake it initially give some slack - the tree needs to flex a bit in the wind for that same reason.
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lthenderson
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by lthenderson »

RobLyons wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:38 am What am I doing wrong?
The two additional things I would add to your list is to get a soil test to ensure adequate PH and nutrition and stick with native to your area species. These days it is quite common to be able to buy many non-native species at local nurseries. They might be zoned for your area but not resistant to bugs and/or blights that might be in your area. I am able to plant non-native species, especially when it comes to fruit trees, but they are generally short lived compared to their native counterparts. Various bugs and blights get them eventually.

Another thing to do is figure out why they are dying. Many areas have state horticulture offices where they can inspect dead plants and trees for disease or insect infestations that might be killing your trees and recommend treatments or alternatives.
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YeahBuddy
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by YeahBuddy »

I planted the tree yesterday. I did amend the soil based on nursery recommendations. I also dup a lot deeper than I planned to so the roots have time to grow into quality soil. I discovered a LOT of rocks in the ground. I also tied it up with an anchoring kit and its windy today so that paid dividends.

On a side note, the amount of rocks discovered, some at very shallow depths, has me wondering if this contributes to "bumpiness" of my lawn and inability to grow grass in some spots. I also wonder if this is how contractors operate - bury rocks in the yard then add a small amount of cheap dirt over the top to cover. I have added a truck of quality loam 3 times in the past 9 years.
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CloseEnough
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by CloseEnough »

Watering is critically important with new trees, or shrubs. Trees often need water beyond what is supplied by rain for two to three years before they are established. Also, OP, for future reference, generally speaking digging deeper than the root ball or container the tree comes in is not recommended. Good luck, if you water properly and have a good location, you have good chance of success.
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lthenderson
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by lthenderson »

RobLyons wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:12 am On a side note, the amount of rocks discovered, some at very shallow depths, has me wondering if this contributes to "bumpiness" of my lawn and inability to grow grass in some spots.
Grass is fairly shallow rooted so my guess is it isn't the rocks. It either has one of many diseases like powdery mildew or one of many insects like Japanese beetles or grubs that all can cause patchy lawns. You need to treat the problem first and then reseed those areas.
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YeahBuddy
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Re: Any arborists or people with green thumbs?

Post by YeahBuddy »

lthenderson wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:44 pm
RobLyons wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:12 am On a side note, the amount of rocks discovered, some at very shallow depths, has me wondering if this contributes to "bumpiness" of my lawn and inability to grow grass in some spots.
Grass is fairly shallow rooted so my guess is it isn't the rocks. It either has one of many diseases like powdery mildew or one of many insects like Japanese beetles or grubs that all can cause patchy lawns. You need to treat the problem first and then reseed those areas.

A landscape contractor supply expert told me it could possibly be due to clumping fescue. For now, I continue to treat for grubs and keep up a good grass maintenance routine on my never ending search for the "root" cause :happy
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