Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
MrsO
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:53 pm

Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by MrsO »

First I’ll start by saying that this is not a very boglehead purchase :|

We’re thinking of getting a 4x4 vehicle, primarily so we can drive off-road on sand for surf casting and exploring. (In other words, 4 wheel drive is a must and AWD will not cut it).

We’re a family of 4, with kids in car seats a for little while longer. Most of our driving is either very short distances in town or 2+ hour road trips. I could see a pickup truck being useful for throwing bikes/kayaks in the back, or the occasional need to transport large items, but it’s not necessary. I was thinking of some sort of Jeep, mainly because it seems like the obvious choice. In general I have zero interest in vehicles beyond reliability and fuel efficiency.

Option 1: get an older, higher mileage vehicle as a 3rd vehicle to only use when needed
Option 2: get something that could be a daily driver

What vehicles should we consider? Thanks in advance!
bogledogle
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by bogledogle »

Some choices are 4 runner, Jeep, Lexus LX, some 4 x 4 truck, Toyota land cruiser. If you are going to carry equipment/rods for surf casting and Kayaks, a truck will better fit your needs for easy access to equipment and more storage.
Litfury
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Litfury »

What a great thread! I initially purchased a new Toyota 4Runner trd off road premium. Although I really wanted a Jeep. I let some people scare me out of getting a Jeep while shopping around. I immediately regretted my decision and hated the 4Runner. I thought I could get past the dated technology, drab interior, terrible infotainment system, ancient design in need of a refresh etc... in favor of reliability. I couldn’t, worst vehicle purchase I have ever made (although I know lots of people who love their 4runners). I did an extremely unboglehead thing and unloaded it less than 6 weeks later. I bought the vehicle I should have bought to begin with and haven’t looked back since.

I also have two young children still in safety seats. I bought a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon and it has been the best vehicle I’ve ever owned. My wife and kids also love it, we have gone off roading several times and it is amazing how capable the thing is stock. My wife likes it so much we have seriously contemplated swapping her Palisade for a Wrangler. It’s also already come in handy on multiple occasions for hauling large objects, just bought three new trees this year. The gladiator also has the largest interior of any of the mid size trucks, as well as the best tow capacity.

Long story short, I’d get a Wrangler or a gladiator. The kids love the top down btw.
2tall4economy
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Global

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by 2tall4economy »

In the universe of vehicles marketed for off road use, there are vehicles which can really go nearly anywhere off-road, and then there are vehicles which have some but not all of the pieces of the puzzle.

Which is which depends on specific equipment (4wd vs awd, locking axles, small enough to fit on trails, large wheels and tires, approach and departure angles, etc).

The short answer is for true off-roading there are really only a handful of choices.

Jeep wenagler/gladiator
Mercedes g wagen (but I wouldn’t take it off-road for fear of damage)
Ford bronco (designed for it but untested in the wild)

If the size of the trail isn’t a problem you can probably add the Ford raptor, dodge trx, dodge power wagen to that list.

That’s about it. Everything else is just marketing not real off-road capability.
You can do anything you want in life. The rub is that there are consequences.
NYCaviator
Posts: 1925
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:06 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by NYCaviator »

MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am What vehicles should we consider? Thanks in advance!
For trucks, you have a lot of options: Tundra, Tacoma, F-150, etc. Make sure you check the safety ratings of the truck before buying. A lot of them are objectively less safe than an SUV in crash tests. Food for thought if you have a family with young kids. Some of the EcoBoost F-150s get good gas mileage, and may be a perfect candidate if you can live with a pickup. If you get anything with a V8, expect terrible gas mileage.

If you want an SUV, you really have 2 options: 4 Runner or Jeep. There's a lot of love for 4 Runners, but like the poster above, I couldn't get over how outdated and cheap the interiors are. They also have an extremely underpowered V6 (good luck towing anything) that gets less than 15 MPG in real world driving, which is inexcusable in 2021. Yeah, they're reliable and capable, but that's it.

I've also driven a 4 door Wrangler on a long road trip, and hated it. They are seriously capable off-road, but on-road they can be annoying. On the highway, it wouldn't track in a straight line because the wind blew it all over the place. It was loud and sounded like there were air leaks. The off-road suspension is really harsh and on-road handling suffers. Jeeps are great if you really NEED the off-road capability and will use it.

Of course, if you want to spend lots of money, there is the G-Wagon, Lexus LX, and LandCruiser. But then again, who would want to take a $100k SUV off-road?
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28813
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Watty »

MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am In general I have zero interest in vehicles beyond reliability and fuel efficiency.
I have never gotten into 4 wheel driving but one thing I have picked up over the years is that there is actually a lot to learn about how to actually drive off road right and how to get yourself out of trouble when(not if) something happens and you get stuck.

If you are going to do this then I would highly suggest that you also take the time to learn do it right and figure out what equipment you need to have with you to get yourself out of trouble when you need to.
Random Poster
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:17 am

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Random Poster »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:20 am The short answer is for true off-roading there are really only a handful of choices.

Jeep wenagler/gladiator
Mercedes g wagen (but I wouldn’t take it off-road for fear of damage)
Ford bronco (designed for it but untested in the wild)

If the size of the trail isn’t a problem you can probably add the Ford raptor, dodge trx, dodge power wagen to that list.

That’s about it. Everything else is just marketing not real off-road capability.
I think that the list is a bit longer than you suggest.

Toyota Land Cruiser. New or used.

Land Rover Defender 110. Used and a bit hard to find.

Nissan Patrol. Have to import.

And so on.

I’d even include the Lexus alternative to the Land Cruiser, the Toyota 4Runner, and perhaps a few others.

But the list isn’t just Jeep, a Mercedes, and a Ford.
btenny
Posts: 5694
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by btenny »

I am a big fan of older 4x4 Jeep Grand Cherokees. I like the GC more than older Wranglers because it is a nicer SUV and a lot better road and around town car. There are tons of nice used ones for sale at $5K for older ones up to $30K or more for almost new ones. I know mine would sell for $4K or less. I regularly tow a 6K pound boat. It is a 99 GC with 125K miles. It has the Mercedes 4.7L V8 that runs great and tows great. It is the limited model so it has the full time fully locked 4WD. Mine has been Ok reliability. A few things have broken as it got older. I suggest you look at some of these.

Good Luck.
Last edited by btenny on Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2tall4economy
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Global

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by 2tall4economy »

Random Poster wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:56 am
2tall4economy wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:20 am The short answer is for true off-roading there are really only a handful of choices.

Jeep wenagler/gladiator
Mercedes g wagen (but I wouldn’t take it off-road for fear of damage)
Ford bronco (designed for it but untested in the wild)

If the size of the trail isn’t a problem you can probably add the Ford raptor, dodge trx, dodge power wagen to that list.

That’s about it. Everything else is just marketing not real off-road capability.
I think that the list is a bit longer than you suggest.

Toyota Land Cruiser. New or used.

Land Rover Defender 110. Used and a bit hard to find.

Nissan Patrol. Have to import.

And so on.

I’d even include the Lexus alternative to the Land Cruiser, the Toyota 4Runner, and perhaps a few others.

But the list isn’t just Jeep, a Mercedes, and a Ford.
Land cruiser approach and departure angles in the 20 degree range vs 30-40 degrees...
You can do anything you want in life. The rub is that there are consequences.
texascrane
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:18 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehic

Post by texascrane »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:20 am The short answer is for true off-roading there are really only a handful of choices.

Jeep wenagler/gladiator
Mercedes g wagen (but I wouldn’t take it off-road for fear of damage)
Ford bronco (designed for it but untested in the wild)

If the size of the trail isn’t a problem you can probably add the Ford raptor, dodge trx, dodge power wagen to that list.

That’s about it. Everything else is just marketing not real off-road capability.
You’ve missed a few vehicles on your list: Toyota Land Cruiser, Lexus LX and GX. Arguably the new Land Rover Defender should be on that list as well.

Early indications on the electric side are very promising for the upcoming rivian R1T and R1S. They’re supposed to be shipping consumer vehicles in a couple of months. If they function as advertised, I’ll likely replace my wrangler unlimited rubicon with an R1T next year.

Personally I drove the crap out of my land cruiser offroad. I always hear people getting nervous about taking an expensive vehicle off-road. I don’t really understand it. Land cruisers in particular are some of the most over built vehicles on the planet. I was never concerned with damaging it. I felt like I was more likely to end up with damage from getting hit driving around town or on my way to the trail.
Last edited by texascrane on Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
B4Xt3r
Posts: 744
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:56 am

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by B4Xt3r »

I've got over a decade of offroading experience. OP, I'm happy to answer as many questions as you'd like as this is a hobby of mine. Let me ask a few questions.

1. Do you sense that you would ever like rock crawling?

2. Do you sense that you this might become a hobby that you would enjoy more and more?

3. Do you value having extra capability so you are more likely to always be able to drive home without calling for an extraction?
Last edited by B4Xt3r on Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
backpacker61
Posts: 1608
Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 6:36 am

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by backpacker61 »

The Ford Ranger (smaller pickup) is also available with on off-road package. If you have the supercab or crew cab version, it might work for your family and be useful for kayaks or camping gear.

A large consideration will be having a bash plate to protect the oil pan from getting whacked.
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? | 'Ride,' Pleasure said; | 'Walk,' Joy replied.” | | ― W.H. Davies
bi0hazard
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:36 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by bi0hazard »

There’s no right answer and there are tons of 4WDs out there. Wrangler is the undisputed King of off-road. With that said, for sand you can get a variety of choices that suit your needs and budget.

If you buy new, something that’s intriguing me lately is the Ford Ranger. It has different off-road drivetrain settings with sophisticated algorithms, and locking rear diff. There’s the new Ranger Tremor with pretty cool suspension stuff. Price is very competitive!

I’ve driven my Tahoe in really technical sand off-road (not on purpose) and it does very well, but driving an expensive suv off road is not ideal IMO.
Disclaimer: I'm not very smart, and this is just my hypothesis.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17100
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by TomatoTomahto »

I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
User avatar
Nate79
Posts: 9354
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Nate79 »

We love our Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.
Topic Author
MrsO
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:53 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by MrsO »

Thanks for all the great info! Can’t beat this site for wise advice on any topic under the sun.

There are lots of options here that I hadn’t considered, including some smaller pickup trucks. Jeep seems to be the favorite of many, and might be the easiest choice, although I’m overwhelmed by all the different models and configurations. We’ve rented Wranglers on trips to Hawaii and I wasn’t overly impressed, plus as noted above it may not be the best car for road trips. But every time I see one on the road I think of how fun it looks! I’ve wondered if a Grand Cherokee would be a good balance since it’s a more comfortable SUV with four wheel drive, so I may look into that as well.

Mercedes, Lexus, and Land Rover all look like amazing trucks but are so pricey that I couldn’t enjoy driving them for fear of destroying them to bits :happy

Thanks again for all the recommendations - now I have some research to do :beer
Topic Author
MrsO
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:53 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by MrsO »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:26 pm CyberTruck. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cP0onHJ-E3I
Yes, my husband keeps joking that he wants a CyberTruck. Except I know he’s not joking at all!
texascrane
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:18 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by texascrane »

Some additional options if you’re considering a used vehicle: https://expeditionportal.com/top-10-use ... -vehicles/
Topic Author
MrsO
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:53 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by MrsO »

Watty wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:53 am
I have never gotten into 4 wheel driving but one thing I have picked up over the years is that there is actually a lot to learn about how to actually drive off road right and how to get yourself out of trouble when(not if) something happens and you get stuck.
I could not agree more. I’ll never forget the time we set off with a baby in tow for an afternoon at an extremely remote beach we’d been to many times before. We drove several miles along the ocean, basically to the end of the universe. We unpacked our beach gear and enjoyed a few blissful minutes until I heard the unmistakable hissssssssss of a leaking tire. Oh no! Certainly there was no AAA to tow us back to safety. Cell phone reception was spotty. We tried making it back to a real road but soon we were stuck. We sure were happy to remember the shovel, piece of plywood, jack, and spare tire in the back of the ancient Jeep we were driving. It took me several years before I was willing to drive off road with kids again!
Topic Author
MrsO
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:53 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by MrsO »

B4Xt3r wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:12 pm I've got over a decade of offroading experience. OP, I'm happy to answer as many questions as you'd like as this is a hobby of mine. Let me ask a few questions.

1. Do you sense that you would ever like rock crawling?

2. Do you sense that you this might become a hobby that you would enjoy more and more?

3. Do you value having extra capability so you are more likely to always be able to drive home without calling for an extraction?
Honestly I don’t know a thing about rock crawling! I think I once saw a video of a Land Rover demonstration, which was fascinating and so amazing to see what was possible. But I’m a super cautious person and would probably be petrified, if it’s what I imagine. Heck, even being a passenger on windy roads in Sedona and Kauai put me seriously on edge. But absolutely yes to your question #3 that I never, ever want to be in a position where I need to call for an extraction :D
phxjcc
Posts: 1329
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by phxjcc »

2013-ish LX570.

Terrible mileage
Great reliability.
Old school tech, but it is a Land Cruiser in Lexus guise.
Truly a “forever” vehicle.

Land Cruiser demands higher resale prices than LX because the IH8MUD guys don’t like the AHC in the Lexus because they think they are going boondocking every day. (Eye roll)

Probably buy it, drive it, sell it for what you paid for it.
adestefan
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:22 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by adestefan »

Subarus handle sand like a champ. Mainly because they have full-time AWD unlike most other electronic systems.
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 19582
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi - white sandy beaches, N. Arizona 1 mile high.

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Sandtrap »

Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro
We just bought a 2021
Outstanding capability and legendary Toyota reliability.

Toyota Tacoma 4 door TRD 4wd.

If the Toyota long term reliability is not quite as important. . .

Then the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4 door.
Or other 4 door SUV with 4 wheel drive, ideally (body on frame) platform.

Sand is soft so ground clearance from tire base to bottom of the differentials is important.
So, typical unibody more "car like" SUV's are greatly compromised in soft sand, IE: Subaru, Honda, Kia, etc.

(In Hawaii's soft sand beaches, the most common "suv"s on the sand are Toyota Tacoma's or variants.)
Upgrading the tires is a must for the beach.

Beach and seashore conditions can be very different than typical "off roading" found inland.

j🌺
Last edited by Sandtrap on Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:05 am, edited 5 times in total.
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
bogledogle
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by bogledogle »

OP,

Here are a few youtube channels I like that are Jeep, 4runner/Lexus, Truck related. Maybe these will inspire or give you some ideas. If not, it's free entertainment at the least.


Trail Recon (Jeep focused)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEEgz9 ... B0VXNbWvRw

Lifestyle Overland (Primary 4runner, but they have a Lexus GX)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJSHfh ... hAVCrXWTyA

Expedition Overland (Family campers, with a truck)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiyiTq ... LHz-juFxIQ
Last edited by bogledogle on Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Soon2BXProgrammer
Posts: 3289
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am Option 1: get an older, higher mileage vehicle as a 3rd vehicle to only use when needed
I love my unicorn... I mean my 2003 Yukon XL 2500 6.0L Quadrasteer 4x4 4.10 gears...

we went with Option one... bought 10 years ago.. and we put on 20k miles in 10 years.
Last edited by Soon2BXProgrammer on Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
bogledogle
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by bogledogle »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:20 pm
MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am Option 1: get an older, higher mileage vehicle as a 3rd vehicle to only use when needed
I love my unicorn... I mean my 2003 Yukon XL 2500 6.0L Quadrasteer 4x4...

we went with Option one... bought 10 years ago.. and we put on 20k miles in 10 years.
20k or 200k? :D
Soon2BXProgrammer
Posts: 3289
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

bogledogle wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:22 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:20 pm
MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am Option 1: get an older, higher mileage vehicle as a 3rd vehicle to only use when needed
I love my unicorn... I mean my 2003 Yukon XL 2500 6.0L Quadrasteer 4x4...

we went with Option one... bought 10 years ago.. and we put on 20k miles in 10 years.
20k or 200k? :D
LOL... 20k i figure, between the initial purchase price and then the repairs we had to do.. and not counting fuel which is expensive... it has cost us $30k to go 20k miles.. oh well.. But i think i coudl sell it for 10k or more.. which would drop us down to $1/mile
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
7eight9
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by 7eight9 »

Toyota Hilux or Land Cruiser depending on your budget.
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.
bogledogle
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by bogledogle »

7eight9 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:58 pm Toyota Hilux or Land Cruiser depending on your budget.
No Hilux in the USA :(
bogledogle
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by bogledogle »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:25 pm
bogledogle wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:22 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:20 pm
MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am Option 1: get an older, higher mileage vehicle as a 3rd vehicle to only use when needed
I love my unicorn... I mean my 2003 Yukon XL 2500 6.0L Quadrasteer 4x4...

we went with Option one... bought 10 years ago.. and we put on 20k miles in 10 years.
20k or 200k? :D
LOL... 20k i figure, between the initial purchase price and then the repairs we had to do.. and not counting fuel which is expensive... it has cost us $30k to go 20k miles.. oh well.. But i think i coudl sell it for 10k or more.. which would drop us down to $1/mile
wow ... but everyone is buying large suvs now. it's a great time to sell.
User avatar
HE Pennypacker
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:27 pm
Location: Ah yes most likely

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by HE Pennypacker »

Nissan Xterra if you can find one in decent shape
User avatar
NCPE
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:10 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by NCPE »

Regardless of which vehicle you choose when you drive on the sand be sure to lower the air pressure in your tires for maximum traction.

Speaking from 30+ years of driving on the sand beaches of the NC Outer Banks.

NCPE
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 18461
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

This depends greatly on where you plan to drive and how difficult the terrain. I'm an avid offroader and have a typical Wrangler with big, offroad tires, a lifted suspension, rock rails (protects the sides of the body from the rocks), skid plates over the things under the Jeep that I don't want pierced by a rock, etc.

That said, since you are looking for potentially an everyday, drive around town vehicle, let's look at some.

Wrangler Unlimited Sahara (4 door). This is the only Wrangler with an AWD position on the transfer case. This is only available on the newest generation (JL, which begain mid 2018). So yes, you can drive it on paved roads with all wheels available to pull you without excessive wear, which all the other Wranglers will warn you not to do because they lock the wheels together. In addition to the AWD setting, you can also pull the transfer case into 4 low for more difficult terrain.

Jeep Grand Cherokee: All the traditional Jeeps are designed to be offroad capable. I don't know these vehicles very well and have never seen one offroading but Jeep is very good at producing good offroaders. It will get you offroad and will be worlds better for comfort and interior materials similar to any other SUV.

Subaru (Forester, Outback, Crosstrek). All have full time all wheel drive. Those equipped with X mode sense wheel spin and intervene to force power to wheels with traction. Here's a video demonstrating X mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvp9jxWsIvk&t=1s I'll note that all Wranglers have this capability, even if you don't have a Rubicon. (it's there on my 2014 Wrangler Unlimited). The thing to first understand is how much ground clearance do you need. Going over big rocks, the Subarus have 8.7 inches of ground clearance. The Wrangler about 10 1/2. With either, you can go to bigger tires. The newer JL Wranglers (18+) fit 35" tires without modification (lift). That, of course increases clearance. Newer Subarus have enough fender clearance to go to somewhat bigger tires. I don't know offhand how big. My 19 Crosstrek uses slightly larger (half an inch) snow tires in the winter as Subaru increased the tiny wheel openings in 17. I also have an older Crosstrek (13) and even stock sized snow tires rub the inner fender well when they're new.

Any Rover is going to be able to do the offroading duties. While they are very expensive, they are designed to get you through terrain that's very rough.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17100
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:03 am Any Rover is going to be able to do the offroading duties. While they are very expensive, they are designed to get you through terrain that's very rough.
We have owned a number of Rovers and spent a week in one on an African safari. They are absolutely rock solid in any weather/off-road situation, and we had fewer maintenance issues (until the last one) than their reputation would make you think. Most dealers have a rock hill that they take you on (at least pre-COVID); it’s worth a test drive.

The stunning snow performance of my Tesla Model X is what made me put a deposit on a Cyber Truck. I am sure it will go anywhere (except might not fit in my garage 😁).
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
User avatar
hand
Posts: 2196
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by hand »

MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am
We’re thinking of getting a 4x4 vehicle, primarily so we can drive off-road on sand for surf casting and exploring. (In other words, 4 wheel drive is a must and AWD will not cut it).



Option 1: get an older, higher mileage vehicle as a 3rd vehicle to only use when needed
Option 2: get something that could be a daily driver
Take some time to look hard at trucks / 4x4 vehicles which have been used in surf and sand - many are significantly rusted.
I would strongly suggest an older vehicle as a 3rd vehicle, or to change your search from best 4x4 to what is sufficient for your needs and what can you afford to fully consume over the next couple years.

Also note that sand often isn't so much about the car's capabilities as it is about proper tires, tire pressure and to some degree skill and ability to read the terrain and risks. Again, wildly different tire needs between on-road and sand suggest a third beater car.
Soon2BXProgrammer
Posts: 3289
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

bogledogle wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:52 am
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:25 pm
bogledogle wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:22 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:20 pm
MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am Option 1: get an older, higher mileage vehicle as a 3rd vehicle to only use when needed
I love my unicorn... I mean my 2003 Yukon XL 2500 6.0L Quadrasteer 4x4...

we went with Option one... bought 10 years ago.. and we put on 20k miles in 10 years.
20k or 200k? :D
LOL... 20k i figure, between the initial purchase price and then the repairs we had to do.. and not counting fuel which is expensive... it has cost us $30k to go 20k miles.. oh well.. But i think i coudl sell it for 10k or more.. which would drop us down to $1/mile
wow ... but everyone is buying large suvs now. it's a great time to sell.
LOL. its not for sale... i get flagged down almost every time i drive it.. and people ask me to buy it... its a unicorn. I think about 6000 Quadrasteer models had been made, and not all of them where 2500's... I think the official number 2500 Quadrasteers over multiple model years is less than 1000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrasteer

Its the predecessor technology to GM's Hummers new crab mode... The new Hummers are too expensive for me.
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
jello_nailer
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:20 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by jello_nailer »

7eight9 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:58 pm Toyota Hilux or Land Cruiser depending on your budget.
I just bought a '16 Land Cruiser to replace my 2005 Cayenne Turbo. LC gets my vote.

(This is a "forever vehicle" for me)
edge
Posts: 3833
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: NY

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by edge »

Land Rover defender could work
hudson
Posts: 7098
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by hudson »

MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am First I’ll start by saying that this is not a very boglehead purchase :|

We’re thinking of getting a 4x4 vehicle, primarily so we can drive off-road on sand for surf casting and exploring. (In other words, 4 wheel drive is a must and AWD will not cut it).

We’re a family of 4, with kids in car seats a for little while longer. Most of our driving is either very short distances in town or 2+ hour road trips. I could see a pickup truck being useful for throwing bikes/kayaks in the back, or the occasional need to transport large items, but it’s not necessary. I was thinking of some sort of Jeep, mainly because it seems like the obvious choice. In general I have zero interest in vehicles beyond reliability and fuel efficiency.

Option 1: get an older, higher mileage vehicle as a 3rd vehicle to only use when needed
Option 2: get something that could be a daily driver

What vehicles should we consider? Thanks in advance!
For kids: 4Runner or Tundra Crew with cap. I would think that a jeep would not be convenient with children.
Throwing stuff in back: Tundra Crew or 4Runner with trailer
Great 4WD: Jeep...2d Place...4Runner
Only use when needed: Maybe buy a new Wrangler and plan to keep it forever.

My dad bought a new Willys CJ2A for $1315 out the door in June 1946; In Philadelphia, that was the only vehicle available until 1947. I had a jeep, a 75 CJ5. That mostly got jeeps out of my system. I got to use an M38 and an M151 in the army. I've still got the fever somewhat. I can't justify having another vehicle in the driveway. My 4Runner gets the job done. I wouldn't want to take a jeep on trips, but the 4Runner is fine on the highway.

The 4Runner will tow 5000 lbs. A Tundra can pull almost twice that.

Tundra crews are nice. They have a huge back seat...maybe more legroom than a Checker cab? The short bed on back with a cap or cover is also useful. The short bed of a Tundra may or may not be big enough for bikes and kayaks; you may need a trailer.
Last edited by hudson on Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
HawkeyePierce
Posts: 2344
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:29 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by HawkeyePierce »

Personally, I'd think long and hard if you'd be fine with a Subaru with a few mods and accessories: proper all-terrain tires like the Falken Wildpeak, a set of skidplates on the undercarriage, a 12V tire inflator, a tire deflator and some recovery gear like a shovel and Maxxtraxx recovery boards.

You'll get a solid daily-driver and roadtrip car that can still perform well offroad, especially if you get one of Subaru's sport models with dual-mode X Mode for sand.

I'm not sure you really need 4x4 just for sand.
finite_difference
Posts: 3626
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by finite_difference »

2tall4economy wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:03 pm
Random Poster wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:56 am
2tall4economy wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:20 am The short answer is for true off-roading there are really only a handful of choices.

Jeep wenagler/gladiator
Mercedes g wagen (but I wouldn’t take it off-road for fear of damage)
Ford bronco (designed for it but untested in the wild)

If the size of the trail isn’t a problem you can probably add the Ford raptor, dodge trx, dodge power wagen to that list.

That’s about it. Everything else is just marketing not real off-road capability.
I think that the list is a bit longer than you suggest.

Toyota Land Cruiser. New or used.

Land Rover Defender 110. Used and a bit hard to find.

Nissan Patrol. Have to import.

And so on.

I’d even include the Lexus alternative to the Land Cruiser, the Toyota 4Runner, and perhaps a few others.

But the list isn’t just Jeep, a Mercedes, and a Ford.
Land cruiser approach and departure angles in the 20 degree range vs 30-40 degrees...
Land Cruiser has an angle of approach of 30 degrees, and breakover angle of 21 degrees, and 20 degree angle of departure.

The Wrangler Rubicon has an approach angle of 42.2 degrees, and breakover angle of 25.8 degrees, and a 32.3 departure angle.

The Toyota Land Cruiser has a ground clearance of 8.9 inches while the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon has a ground clearance of 10 inches.


For true off road (or sand), don’t forget to deflate your tires and be skillful. You can also get a suspension lift if you can afford a Land Cruiser.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
p14175
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:33 am
Location: Now in southeast Arizona

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by p14175 »

I owned a 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ) for several years and used it for 4-wheeling and rock crawling as well as long distance travel and towing a trailer occasionally. It was a great all around SUV and very comfortable. Since then I have gone with strictly with diesel vehicles.

Grand Cherokees were manufactured with a diesel engine option (Mercedes OM642 3.0l 2007-2008, VM Motori Eccodiesel 3.0l v6 2014-2017), but they can be hard to find.

2005-2006 Jeep Liberty(KJ) CRDs can be found with the VM Motori 2.8L inline-4. About 20,000 were manufactured for the US market. I have one of these.

The Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon mid-size pickups use the same VM Motori 2.8L inline-4 engine as the Jeep Liberty CRDs but rebadged as a Duramax. I think 2021 is the last year for diesels in these trucks. I think the diesel option has been available since 2012. FWIW, the Chevy Cruze can be had with the same diesel engine.
Last edited by p14175 on Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wellfleet
Posts: 636
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:18 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by Wellfleet »

MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am
What vehicles should we consider? Thanks in advance!
If you envision visiting one beach only to off-road I would review the specific requirements for that beach. Some require actual 4x4 some don't care as long as you have other required equipment like a full size spare.

We purchased a 4WD 4Runner last summer to drive on different beaches, each having different requirements. Last summer the beach we ended up purchasingg a sticker for was full of AWD vehicles like Kias, Highlander,s and even a Subaru Crosstrek. We were WAY over prepared but are prepared for actual 4WD-required beaches we will visit in the future.
ThankYouJack
Posts: 5704
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by ThankYouJack »

Wellfleet wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:14 pm Last summer the beach we ended up purchasingg a sticker for was full of AWD vehicles like Kias, Highlander,s and even a Subaru Crosstrek.
With Subaru's AWD tech (including X-mode), 8.7" ground clearance and the lighter weight of the Crosstrek, I would think it would do better on the beach than Kias and Highlanders. But of course a lot must come down to the driver and tires.
hi_there
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:00 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by hi_there »

Hard to guess what is best without a price range. It should be noted though, that nowadays, all kinds of AWD vehicles have sophisticated traction control software and engineering that can overcome what might have been physical limitations in previous generations. Trucks or specialized 4x4 vehicles will still be best for challenging terrain, but maybe there are other vehicles that might accomplish OP's requirements while being good family vehicles, and some comments above seem to support this.

Here are a few wildcard suggestions, based on this theme:

1) Toyota RAV4 Adventure
2) Bronco Sport
3) Honda Passport
FIBoston
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by FIBoston »

Subaru Outback with a 2" lift kit or Subaru Ascent. This is the way.
helloeveryone
Posts: 1283
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:16 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by helloeveryone »

MrsO wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:47 pm
Watty wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:53 am
I have never gotten into 4 wheel driving but one thing I have picked up over the years is that there is actually a lot to learn about how to actually drive off road right and how to get yourself out of trouble when(not if) something happens and you get stuck.
I could not agree more. I’ll never forget the time we set off with a baby in tow for an afternoon at an extremely remote beach we’d been to many times before. We drove several miles along the ocean, basically to the end of the universe. We unpacked our beach gear and enjoyed a few blissful minutes until I heard the unmistakable hissssssssss of a leaking tire. Oh no! Certainly there was no AAA to tow us back to safety. Cell phone reception was spotty. We tried making it back to a real road but soon we were stuck. We sure were happy to remember the shovel, piece of plywood, jack, and spare tire in the back of the ancient Jeep we were driving. It took me several years before I was willing to drive off road with kids again!
Being prepared is critical. As noted above there are MANY vehicles that will fit what you want to do - make sure they are 4wd or AWD, have the right tires (all terrains), but then make sure you are prepared with things to get you out of bad situations. not a comprehensive list but just to show you to make sure you and significant other are well prepared - air compressor (so you can air down but then air back up), flat repair kit, recovery strap kit (so that if someone does come along you have what you need to have them pull you out), shovel, if you're truly going away from civilization have a full size spare rather than the donut, max trax, always have extra water in case it takes several days for someone to come along and save you etc....

Sounds like some fun adventures!
runningshoes
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:48 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by runningshoes »

I'd suggest a slightly different thought process, and that's based on the fact that you're not exactly sure what you need in terms of vehicle performance as you're not sure what you're going to do with the vehicle in the future. If you end up only using the vehicle to drive on the beach, there's a lot of options as people have noted. If you end up seeing that you like this kind of stuff and decide to do some of the more fun off-road trails, it completely changes the picture so I would err on the side of getting a vehicle that allows the option of doing more if you so decide.

First of all, AWD is not 4WD, so drop all those AWD vehicles from the list. As others have said, you're down to the new Land Rover Defender, Jeep Wrangler, Ford Bronco, and Toyota 4Runner (the other more expensive vehicles you dropped off the list). The 4Runner is a great daily driver, has a lot of room, and with slight modifications can go almost anywhere you point it. It's been outdated in terms of engine and interior for a good number of years, and will only look worse in the next few years of ownership. The Defender is new and has a great heritage of off road capability combined with simplified driving features, so no worries. The Wrangler JL came out in late 2018 and has basically nothing in common with previous generations in terms of interior comfort and design, technology, and even options for Hybrid, Diesel, and a full fledged EV next year. The Bronco Sport is new this year, a bit limited (sits on the Escape platform) compared to its big brother the full sized Bronco that's supposed to be out later this year, but likely available early next given some production delays.

IMO if you're looking for a vehicle now, the Defender and Wrangler are your best bets, and if you're looking for a vehicle next year, I'd add the full sized Bronco to the list as well. The Wrangler is the most "customable" of the bunch with endless after market options, the Ford guys got smart and are offering more options already built in on the dealers lots, and the Defender will be more expensive to change for obvious reasons. All of these are full fledged off-road vehicles first, and drive differently (read you need to pay attention driving) than your normal sedan or SUV. You can easily find a used Wrangler, but given current used car prices, you're better off buying new as the oldest JL you can buy is late 2018 and that model year suffered from all the normal 1st year production bugs (I don't know about the Defender and Bronco Sport, both are too new to have significant numbers on the road). I would not buy a prior generation Wrangler (JK), as the differences in features is night and day.

In any case, you'll have fun with this which is the most important thing!
beergod
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by beergod »

I would not discount AWD, specifically the Honda Ridgeline. I had been looking at this vehicle in the past to tow a trailer and be an off road vehicle but decided on a motorhome instead.

I think from my very brief "research," Honda's driving modes for the Ridgeline does really well and except for the most extreme terrain, which I personally would never do, for an example of extreme terrain, see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVy-I5mVCac

There are plenty of reviews of the 2nd gen and now the face lifted 2nd generation version. See links below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqr_mt3Dj78 (the facelifted 2nd gen review by the same guy in the 2nd video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ipMITwp3M (the video that sold me on the ridgeline)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myuPI_BnerY (sand performance, HOnda's sand driving mode is pretty good)

You will likely use your truck mostly on roads, in which case, the ridgeline performs like a sedan. I would at least test drive one, especially one of the newer ones with the facelift, and if you wanted a more aggressive look, their HPD branded stuff is pretty nice IMHO.

I'm a little biased towards Honda but this would be my next car if I were to be in the market for one.
BionicBillWalsh
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:56 am
Location: Sandwich Islands

Re: Best 4 wheel drive vehicle

Post by BionicBillWalsh »

My old Raptor had amazing street driving manners with the perfect bed size for the activities you've mentioned. Just make sure you've got a big garage. The 6.2 liter V8 sounded like a wolf growling when you'd hit the accelerator. It was amazing.

You can get the 1st generation ones now for very reasonable money. Most were street Queens so probably little worry about being beat up.
Jerry Garcia: If I knew the way...I would take you home.
Post Reply