Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

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GKSD
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Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by GKSD »

We have total of 120 feet of fence (including both sides) - on one side the fence boards are warped, top rail is coming off, just starting to look worn down; its 20 years old wooden fence. So the neighbor wants to replace it and has started to put pressure (constant messages, emails..). The neighbor on the other side is not so keen to replace on his side. I personally am OK to wait for couple of more years but also don't mind getting a new nicer fence. But definitely I don't want to end up with two different types of fence, so would like to replace both sides or none. The new fence being discussed is 6' tall and existing one is 5' tall.

Not sure how to solve this neighbor situation - any recommendations?

Also, here in Southern California, contractors are quoting ~$45/linear-foot (metal posts, cedar boards, 3 2x4 rails since its 6' fence) - is this a typical estimate?
livesoft
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by livesoft »

just replace the different fencelines separately. You can always duplicate the fence a year or two later. Go 6 feet.. The one neighbor and you can share the cost. The other neighbor will come around when they see how nice your fence is.
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tibbitts
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by tibbitts »

Wow if a neighbor is willing to share cost that's awesome. While you have that deal take it before you end up paying for the entire fence the way some of us do. Nobody cares if you have the same exact fence on both sides. That's a reasonable price. You can get more quotes of course.

Get ready for dozen of posts telling you you're lazy and stupid if you don't replace it yourself and save the labor cost.

Almost forgot: make sure the contractor removes all the remnants of the old fenceposts.
inbox788
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by inbox788 »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:19 pmWow if a neighbor is willing to share cost that's awesome.
OP is the neighbor willing to share costs. The other guy wants the fence now.

https://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/fencin ... ood-fence/

Cost seems high, so get other estimates. Materials is the minor cost factor. Mostly labor. Is the high cost from total tear down and digging to remove old posts and put in new taller posts?

Can you reuse the posts?
https://backyardscape.com/how-to-extend ... p-by-step/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvTp6-wE9XY

Metal Post Extension-Fence Extender 2-3/8 in (2-3/8 in Dia x 06in)
https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Post-Exten ... B01LX32J2T

6 ft. H x 8 ft. W Construction Common Redwood Dog-Ear Fence Panel $86.97
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mendocino-F ... /100087896

I assume the parts are cheaper than pre-constructed, so take time and labor and total cost into account.

I'm expecting inflation, both materials and labor so in 2 years, you might be paying 10% more for the same job. If you build it now for X dollars, in 2 years, it's good for another 18 more years. If you wait, you may be paying 1.10X for 20 more years (1.11X). Or another way of thinking about it is that that 10% pays for 2039-2041 that you might not care to spend now. Of course, if there isn't inflation or current prices are inflated, then it pays to wait.
Jeepergeo
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by Jeepergeo »

Join up with the neighbor that wants to split the cost. Even if it is a couple of years early, it will save you money and keep things neighborly.

For the other side, just wait it out or cover your side with the taller face boards. Waiting it out would be easiest. It is not worth starting a feud with the neighbor.
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Watty
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by Watty »

One thing to consider is that lumber prices have gone crazy this year so replacing it now will be more expensive. Waiting on the other side could make sense if there is no hurry for that side.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by rebellovw »

You are lucky that your neighbor wants to go in with you - I built an 80ft redwood 6ft fence (I created it my self with my son) and my Neighbor was like "sorry man - I'm going through a divorce and I cannot touch any money..."

He did help out with the labor - so that was better than nothing. But I covered all the costs and did most of the work.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by JonnyDVM »

livesoft wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:17 pm just replace the different fencelines separately. You can always duplicate the fence a year or two later. Go 6 feet.. The one neighbor and you can share the cost. The other neighbor will come around when they see how nice your fence is.
Probably good advice. Also, probably better to wait on the other side if you can because lumbar is so expensive right now. I will say though, if it were me, I would just rebuild the whole thing. I couldn’t stand to look at it 3/4 new 1/4 old. If your other neighbor wants to be boglehead cheap about it and not chip in so be it.
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tibbitts
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by tibbitts »

inbox788 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:17 pm I assume the parts are cheaper than pre-constructed, so take time and labor and total cost into account.

I'm expecting inflation, both materials and labor so in 2 years, you might be paying 10% more for the same job. If you build it now for X dollars, in 2 years, it's good for another 18 more years. If you wait, you may be paying 1.10X for 20 more years (1.11X). Or another way of thinking about it is that that 10% pays for 2039-2041 that you might not care to spend now. Of course, if there isn't inflation or current prices are inflated, then it pays to wait.
I went through the fence replacement last year and unless maybe you buy in vast quantities, parts are far, far more expensive than pre-constructed. Due to shortages I had to build myself. I ended spending at least 1.5x as much as pre-constructed, even with my labor being "free", and only part of that was for better materials (screws vs. nails for example.)

I wouldn't base anything on anyone's expectation of inflation. Might happen, might not. In terms of building materials obviously inflation already has happened to an extreme degree. You either want the fence now or you don't. If I had somebody willing to share cost and waited two years, guaranteed he'd die and I'd be left paying for the entire job. Now that's inflation.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by tev9876 »

I am in the process of replacing my 20+ year old fence now. Mine is inside the property line so 100% owned by me. The original chain link is still in place on the property line behind the wood fence. Since it is my fence I don't need the neighbors permission to do anything, but I also don't expect them to pay for it. In my city, putting a fence on the property line requires notarized approval of all property owners. The nice side of the fence must also face out. I decided to go with vinyl since both sides are the nice side and it will never rot.

I also need 120 feet on two sides of the property. My quotes ranged from $4600 (Lowes/HD) to $6900. I had a couple quote cedar on metal posts also and it was only a few hundred less. I went with a local fence company with good reviews at $5750 for Certainteed Bufftech fence in Almond. https://www.certainteed.com/fence/produ ... lexington/ This is a bit better than the big box product since it has some steel reinforcement. This does not include tear out of the existing fence which I am doing myself - that would have been another $800 or so.

I signed the contract two weeks ago and was given an August estimate for install. If you wait much longer you might have to wait until next year - everyone is crazy busy and even getting people to return quotes was a pain.

I also need to get three trees removed since they are pushing the existing fence down. This is a negative of the double fence as things can start growing that you don't see for a long time. A maple is actually growing though the chain link fence and up into the power lines. The utility was out to trim that today so my contractor can take the rest down. I did need the neighbor's permission since one full tree and part of the maple are on their side. The quote came in under $2000 which surprised me - I was expecting higher. 80% of the mess is on my side of the property so I decided to not ask them to pay even though their garage is in the most danger of damage. I did need to get their permission for removal though.

If your neighbor is willing to split the cost I would definitely go for it - as long as you get a voice in the type of fence, contractor, etc. and make sure all permitting and codes are followed.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by inbox788 »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:23 pmI went through the fence replacement last year and unless maybe you buy in vast quantities, parts are far, far more expensive than pre-constructed. Due to shortages I had to build myself. I ended spending at least 1.5x as much as pre-constructed, even with my labor being "free", and only part of that was for better materials (screws vs. nails for example.)

I wouldn't base anything on anyone's expectation of inflation. Might happen, might not. In terms of building materials obviously inflation already has happened to an extreme degree. You either want the fence now or you don't. If I had somebody willing to share cost and waited two years, guaranteed he'd die and I'd be left paying for the entire job. Now that's inflation.
I'm surprised. Are talking about the same parts? From what I can tell, the pre-assembled 6 ft. H x 8 ft. W Construction Common Redwood Dog-Ear Fence Panel https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mendocino-F ... /100087896 is just 17 of the $2-3 5/8 in. x 5-1/2 in. x 6 ft. Red Stain Pine Dog-Ear Fence Picket https://www.homedepot.com/p/5-8-in-x-5- ... /313636768 with 3 2x4x8 (is this a good choice https://www.homedepot.com/p/5-8-in-x-5- ... /313636768) and some nails or screws. Even at $0.10 per, 17x6 is about $10.

$34-51 + $20 +10 is still less than the prebuilt. Did you go substantially better with materials? What broke the budget? Or was it everything?

As far as inflation, yes, if you don't expect inflation, then there no financial benefit and no added pressure to do anything now. With deflation, you're better off waiting (i.e. TV or computer) On the other hand, with low interest rates and capital costs, spending on things that last a very long time or appreciate, buy now or sooner than better is financial incentive -- you're getting something new for free or cheap. I discovered in the electric car threads here that some EVs have appreciated or barely depreciated, though long term it's a depreciating good, so good timing is helpful. Too bad you can't trade in your old fence and the only timing might be when to sell your house, but basing it on the age of the fence doesn't make much sense to me.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by rebellovw »

Those Home Depot fence panels are cheap and thin - go to a real lumber yard and get some quality wood.

I built a fence at my older house with those Home Depot planks - they are super thin and not very wide - I was quite surprised when I went to a lumber yard (Economy Lumber in Oakland CA) and bought their planks for another job - much more significant - thicker and wider and should last quite a bit longer.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by quantAndHold »

Wood fencing materials are super super expensive right now. I would try to convince neighbor #1 to wait a year.

That said, though, if you’re using standard materials and design, there’s no reason you can’t replace one side this year, and the other side in a year or two and not have the same look.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by Ben Mathew »

GKSD wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:12 pm But definitely I don't want to end up with two different types of fence, so would like to replace both sides or none.
Keep in mind that if everyone adopted this position, the entire block would have to replace their fence at the same time. So I don't think it's a reasonable expectation. We have two types of fencing in our yard. Our block has many different types of fencing. Many houses have three different neighbors with three types of fence (left, right, and back.) Uniformity is pretty much unachievable, unless maybe if you pay for the whole fence so neighbors on all sides are unlikely to object.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by inbox788 »

Ben Mathew wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:01 amUniformity is pretty much unachievable, unless maybe if you pay for the whole fence so neighbors on all sides are unlikely to object.
Or you put enough pressure on the 3 neighbors by constantly messaging and emailing them.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by hand »

Tell the neighbor that wants to replace the fence that you'll split the cost when the neighbor that doesn't want to replace the fence is ready.

This fairly states your position and gets the first neighbor off your back, and rechannels the first neighbor's energy to harassing the second neighbor instead of you.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by quantAndHold »

Ben Mathew wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:01 am
GKSD wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:12 pm But definitely I don't want to end up with two different types of fence, so would like to replace both sides or none.
Keep in mind that if everyone adopted this position, the entire block would have to replace their fence at the same time. So I don't think it's a reasonable expectation. We have two types of fencing in our yard. Our block has many different types of fencing. Many houses have three different neighbors with three types of fence (left, right, and back.) Uniformity is pretty much unachievable, unless maybe if you pay for the whole fence so neighbors on all sides are unlikely to object.
In our neighborhood of 90-100 year old houses, I don’t know anyone who has the same fence on multiple sides of their house. We have five different kinds of fencing around the four sides of our yard. On one side, there are three different fences. It looks fine. It’s one of the things that happens over the years as neighborhoods mature.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by GKSD »

hand wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:55 am Tell the neighbor that wants to replace the fence that you'll split the cost when the neighbor that doesn't want to replace the fence is ready.

This fairly states your position and gets the first neighbor off your back, and rechannels the first neighbor's energy to harassing the second neighbor instead of you.
:happy - that is what DW has ended up doing now.

The 1st neighbor who wants to replace has offered to pitch in with the cost for the other side fence, if the 2nd neighbor is OK to replace but does not want to pay.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by GKSD »

rebellovw wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:22 am Those Home Depot fence panels are cheap and thin - go to a real lumber yard and get some quality wood.

I built a fence at my older house with those Home Depot planks - they are super thin and not very wide - I was quite surprised when I went to a lumber yard (Economy Lumber in Oakland CA) and bought their planks for another job - much more significant - thicker and wider and should last quite a bit longer.
That is interesting to know. The fence guy I was talking to kept pointing me to the materials from Homedepot - posts, cedar wood panels, 2x4s.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by anon_investor »

GKSD wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:23 pm
hand wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:55 am Tell the neighbor that wants to replace the fence that you'll split the cost when the neighbor that doesn't want to replace the fence is ready.

This fairly states your position and gets the first neighbor off your back, and rechannels the first neighbor's energy to harassing the second neighbor instead of you.
:happy - that is what DW has ended up doing now.

The 1st neighbor who wants to replace has offered to pitch in with the cost for the other side fence, if the 2nd neighbor is OK to replace but does not want to pay.
So neighbor 1 is going to help pay for both sides? That is definitely a win win for you! :sharebeer
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by GKSD »

anon_investor wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:44 pm
GKSD wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:23 pm
hand wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:55 am Tell the neighbor that wants to replace the fence that you'll split the cost when the neighbor that doesn't want to replace the fence is ready.

This fairly states your position and gets the first neighbor off your back, and rechannels the first neighbor's energy to harassing the second neighbor instead of you.
:happy - that is what DW has ended up doing now.

The 1st neighbor who wants to replace has offered to pitch in with the cost for the other side fence, if the 2nd neighbor is OK to replace but does not want to pay.
So neighbor 1 is going to help pay for both sides? That is definitely a win win for you! :sharebeer
We haven't figured out the exact arrangement yet. The 2nd neighbor, who is not keen, did mention that he thinks the estimate is high. So we are going to try to figure out what he thinks should be the reasonable cost and then have him only pay that much and split the difference with the 1st neighbor.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by tibbitts »

inbox788 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:19 am
tibbitts wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:23 pmI went through the fence replacement last year and unless maybe you buy in vast quantities, parts are far, far more expensive than pre-constructed. Due to shortages I had to build myself. I ended spending at least 1.5x as much as pre-constructed, even with my labor being "free", and only part of that was for better materials (screws vs. nails for example.)

I wouldn't base anything on anyone's expectation of inflation. Might happen, might not. In terms of building materials obviously inflation already has happened to an extreme degree. You either want the fence now or you don't. If I had somebody willing to share cost and waited two years, guaranteed he'd die and I'd be left paying for the entire job. Now that's inflation.
I'm surprised. Are talking about the same parts? From what I can tell, the pre-assembled 6 ft. H x 8 ft. W Construction Common Redwood Dog-Ear Fence Panel https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mendocino-F ... /100087896 is just 17 of the $2-3 5/8 in. x 5-1/2 in. x 6 ft. Red Stain Pine Dog-Ear Fence Picket https://www.homedepot.com/p/5-8-in-x-5- ... /313636768 with 3 2x4x8 (is this a good choice https://www.homedepot.com/p/5-8-in-x-5- ... /313636768) and some nails or screws. Even at $0.10 per, 17x6 is about $10.

$34-51 + $20 +10 is still less than the prebuilt. Did you go substantially better with materials? What broke the budget? Or was it everything?

As far as inflation, yes, if you don't expect inflation, then there no financial benefit and no added pressure to do anything now. With deflation, you're better off waiting (i.e. TV or computer) On the other hand, with low interest rates and capital costs, spending on things that last a very long time or appreciate, buy now or sooner than better is financial incentive -- you're getting something new for free or cheap. I discovered in the electric car threads here that some EVs have appreciated or barely depreciated, though long term it's a depreciating good, so good timing is helpful. Too bad you can't trade in your old fence and the only timing might be when to sell your house, but basing it on the age of the fence doesn't make much sense to me.
I have treated pine and am comparing that in pre-built to the components. I bought 2x4 vs. 2x3 (2x3 would have cost me more at the time), and as far as I can tell the pickets were the same. Obviously I used deck screws not nails - 5 per picket. I waited weeks and weeks: no pre-built panels in stock. Then I built my own. A week later the pre-builts showed up at the store of course. And yes, considerably cheaper per panel than I'd paid, not even counting anything for my labor. There were quantity discounts for the pickets that I didn't qualify for because I bought in little batches, filling up my car. But the difference for the larger quantity would still have made my panels considerably more expensive. Possibly the lumber prices, which had just recently shot up, were not yet fully reflected in the pre-built products, but I'm comparing the actual big-box selling prices.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by GKSD »

GKSD wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:25 pm
rebellovw wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:22 am Those Home Depot fence panels are cheap and thin - go to a real lumber yard and get some quality wood.

I built a fence at my older house with those Home Depot planks - they are super thin and not very wide - I was quite surprised when I went to a lumber yard (Economy Lumber in Oakland CA) and bought their planks for another job - much more significant - thicker and wider and should last quite a bit longer.
That is interesting to know. The fence guy I was talking to kept pointing me to the materials from Homedepot - posts, cedar wood panels, 2x4s.
Aren't most of the components just standard width and thickness?

Frame is made out of 2x4
Boards/pickets are 1x6
Trim uses 1x4

Perhaps the type and quality of wood makes a difference - any idea what would some of the better wood types for fence?

Contractors are talking Cedar/pickets? And top cap either of Douglas fir or some compressed wood.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by JonnyDVM »

GKSD wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:10 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:44 pm
GKSD wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:23 pm
hand wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:55 am Tell the neighbor that wants to replace the fence that you'll split the cost when the neighbor that doesn't want to replace the fence is ready.

This fairly states your position and gets the first neighbor off your back, and rechannels the first neighbor's energy to harassing the second neighbor instead of you.
:happy - that is what DW has ended up doing now.

The 1st neighbor who wants to replace has offered to pitch in with the cost for the other side fence, if the 2nd neighbor is OK to replace but does not want to pay.
So neighbor 1 is going to help pay for both sides? That is definitely a win win for you! :sharebeer
We haven't figured out the exact arrangement yet. The 2nd neighbor, who is not keen, did mention that he thinks the estimate is high. So we are going to try to figure out what he thinks should be the reasonable cost and then have him only pay that much and split the difference with the 1st neighbor.
Are you sure the second neighbor isn’t on this forum?
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by inbox788 »

hand wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:55 am Tell the neighbor that wants to replace the fence that you'll split the cost when the neighbor that doesn't want to replace the fence is ready.

This fairly states your position and gets the first neighbor off your back, and rechannels the first neighbor's energy to harassing the second neighbor instead of you.
+1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUl295oyeIc&t=335s
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by GKSD »

JonnyDVM wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:56 pm
GKSD wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:10 pm
anon_investor wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:44 pm
GKSD wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:23 pm
hand wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:55 am Tell the neighbor that wants to replace the fence that you'll split the cost when the neighbor that doesn't want to replace the fence is ready.

This fairly states your position and gets the first neighbor off your back, and rechannels the first neighbor's energy to harassing the second neighbor instead of you.
:happy - that is what DW has ended up doing now.

The 1st neighbor who wants to replace has offered to pitch in with the cost for the other side fence, if the 2nd neighbor is OK to replace but does not want to pay.
So neighbor 1 is going to help pay for both sides? That is definitely a win win for you! :sharebeer
We haven't figured out the exact arrangement yet. The 2nd neighbor, who is not keen, did mention that he thinks the estimate is high. So we are going to try to figure out what he thinks should be the reasonable cost and then have him only pay that much and split the difference with the 1st neighbor.
Are you sure the second neighbor isn’t on this forum?
This thought did cross my mind. What if both neighbors are reading this post as well. Oh well..
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by oldfatguy »

I have to admit I am confused by this thread. Everywhere that I've lived before, a fence is owned by whoever's property it is on. Never heard of negotiating with neighbors about replacing fences or splitting costs before.
Last edited by oldfatguy on Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by egrets »

I haven't had time to read everything, but be sure your zoning allows the higher fence.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by egrets »

oldfatguy wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:13 pm I have to admit I am confused by this thread. Everywhere that I've lived before, a fence is owned by whoever's property it is on. Never heard of negotiating with neighbors about replacing fences or slitting costs before.
Some fences sit in the property line.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by GKSD »

egrets wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:26 pm I haven't had time to read everything, but be sure your zoning allows the higher fence.
Yes, 6' is the max allowed. And many neighbors have installed 6' fence.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by KESP »

I too have never heard of a neighbor offering to split the cost of a fence that technically doesn't belong to them. I would jump on that before they change their mind.You are very lucky.
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by inbox788 »

egrets wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:27 pm
oldfatguy wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:13 pm I have to admit I am confused by this thread. Everywhere that I've lived before, a fence is owned by whoever's property it is on. Never heard of negotiating with neighbors about replacing fences or slitting costs before.
Some fences sit in the property line.
Recently replaced fence that was falling apart. The fence was there before my neighbor or I moved in. We didn't bother to figure out who's fence it was or where the property line was or on who's side of the property the fence fell (or if it was on the line). Neighbor did the work to find a good bid, and I agreed it was time to replace the fence. We spit it even Steven, easy peasy.

Now, if it happens to be on my property, then it's my fence and I get to keep it. And if it was on my neighbors side, then even better, more yard for me.

BTW, for whole owned fences on your property, I came across a few postings about fence etiquette facing the nicer side towards your neighbor. Who's in charge of maintaining it? I wound up painting the fence, and if it was on my neighbors property, was I rude or did I do something wrong? Was he being unneighborly letting the paint fade and peel off on his fence? Was he supposed to paint it or should I have asked him to? And what if I didn't like his choice of color (say orange)?

OP, there's zoning and permitting requirements that may be different dependent on who's regulating. I wouldn't worry too much if you're just replacing an existing fence. FYI, you may be able to go more than 6 feet (not that you want to), but it's more hassle. I've know folks do 8 feet for more privacy, presumably with permit. While others get around it by extending height with a lattice and/or vegetation, where the requirements are more permissive, variable or vague.
Please note that a free standing fence up to six (6) feet in height does not require a permit, but is still subject to zoning requirements established by the County of Los Angeles Department of Regional Planning, a link is provided below for your convenience.
https://pw.lacounty.gov/general/faq/?10 ... QgCg%3D%3D (I got an error clicking the link they provided)
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Supergrover
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by Supergrover »

tev9876 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:02 pm I am in the process of replacing my 20+ year old fence now. Mine is inside the property line so 100% owned by me. The original chain link is still in place on the property line behind the wood fence. Since it is my fence I don't need the neighbors permission to do anything, but I also don't expect them to pay for it. In my city, putting a fence on the property line requires notarized approval of all property owners. The nice side of the fence must also face out. I decided to go with vinyl since both sides are the nice side and it will never rot.

I also need 120 feet on two sides of the property. My quotes ranged from $4600 (Lowes/HD) to $6900. I had a couple quote cedar on metal posts also and it was only a few hundred less. I went with a local fence company with good reviews at $5750 for Certainteed Bufftech fence in Almond. https://www.certainteed.com/fence/produ ... lexington/ This is a bit better than the big box product since it has some steel reinforcement. This does not include tear out of the existing fence which I am doing myself - that would have been another $800 or so.

I signed the contract two weeks ago and was given an August estimate for install. If you wait much longer you might have to wait until next year - everyone is crazy busy and even getting people to return quotes was a pain.

I also need to get three trees removed since they are pushing the existing fence down. This is a negative of the double fence as things can start growing that you don't see for a long time. A maple is actually growing though the chain link fence and up into the power lines. The utility was out to trim that today so my contractor can take the rest down. I did need the neighbor's permission since one full tree and part of the maple are on their side. The quote came in under $2000 which surprised me - I was expecting higher. 80% of the mess is on my side of the property so I decided to not ask them to pay even though their garage is in the most danger of damage. I did need to get their permission for removal though.

If your neighbor is willing to split the cost I would definitely go for it - as long as you get a voice in the type of fence, contractor, etc. and make sure all permitting and codes are followed.

Wish I had your fence guy! I just got a quote for 100' of the Bufftech, which as you know is supposed to be the best vinyl. My quote for 100' was $9,800 installed. Even though that was my first choice, I had start looking at alternatives.Two other quotes same price range.
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JonnyDVM
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by JonnyDVM »

FWIW we replaced our fence last year at the neighbors request. They split their length with us. From over in their yard the fence did look a bit rough. They wanted upgraded posts on their side and they paid for the cost of that upgrade. The neighbors on the other side we reclaimed some of our property with the fence placement, so I didn’t even ask them about chipping in. In hindsight I’m so glad they urged us to do it as the cost would be so much more today. Looks way better too. Sometimes it pays to be a good neighbor.
I’d trade it all for a little more | -C Montgomery Burns
tibbitts
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by tibbitts »

KESP wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:10 pm I too have never heard of a neighbor offering to split the cost of a fence that technically doesn't belong to them. I would jump on that before they change their mind.You are very lucky.
Generally whoever built their house first put up a fence on their side of the property line; it may in fact be required depending on the neighborhood. Rarely would a neighbor put up one after that, since as a result they basically have a fence inches from where their own fence would be. So the first person to build a house is potentially stuck with the maintenance of a fence on three sides of their property (four if you count the front.) Sometimes neighbors volunteer to help or pay, but certainly not always.
chemocean
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by chemocean »

We bought a house in a development in which houses started to be built in 1995 that was bought from the adjacent commercial property. At that time a fence was constructed across the back of all the lots by the developer. The commercial property had the good side of the fence and the posts were not located at the corners of each lot. When we bought the house, the neighbor had a fence on the right side of back yard, and the house to the left was being build. A couple of the months after we moved in, the contractor for the house of the left come over and said "How would you like to split the cost of a fence and we will put the good side on your side of the fence. We politely said "No thank you". Over the years, we the soil in the garden built up against the back fence. We started to get deer in our back yard, so we decided to fence in the small front sections on both sides of our house. Luckily, both neighbors allowed us to connect to their existed corner post for our fence.

Sections of the back fence in the neighborhood started falling down. I realized only the posts in lots with gardens along the fence fell. When half of the section in my yard fell due to rotten post (treated 4" X 6") at the concrete, I assumed responsibility for rotting the posts at the concrete line under the garden dirt, and replaced the posts in the exact same place (requires more concrete) and replaced the existing panels (a booglehead type of action). During this construction project, I did find a piece of rebar driven into the right corner of our lot, which told me that yes, the neighbor to the right owned the fence to the right, and the back fence was on the property of the adjacent commercial owner. I cut the rotten part of the 4"X6" treated posts off and made a berm with the good part of the posts to protect the new posts from the garden dirt.

When the next big wind storm blew down the second half of the back fence (six 8' panels) on their property, I just left it there. About a week later, there was a note taped onto our back door from your commercial neighbor asking us when we were going to fix our fence. I called the office of the business next door, and said the fence was theirs, but I would take responsibility for the rotten fence post. Instead of surveying the property to figure out who's fence the property was on, we came up with an agreement: we would work together to replace the posts at my expense (concrete and posts) and they would pay for any other materials (hangers, nails, etc) and we would replace the existing panels. The installation when well until we got to the end and there was a gap of about 1.5" between the end of the last panel and the last post. We stood there for a minute, and then their maintenance guy measured the widths of the old and new posts. The new posts were narrower than the old post by 1/4". I just tacked on a treated 2"X 4" to the last post and the last panel fit well. I presented the commercial neighbor owner with the bill for the other materials. The funny thing is that he paid me in cash, since he didn't want any record of accepting responsibility for the fence because he had 10 other neighboring lots to deal with. Like the first half, I used the good part of the posts to make a berm. As far as I am concerned, the back fence is their problem now.
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illumination
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by illumination »

Setting aside the neighbor situation and assuming that doesn't change, I probably would put it off and see if the building material craziness dies down. Lumber prices have supposedly gone up almost 200% in the last few months. Not sure though if this is a long term trend with inflation across the board.
vested1
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by vested1 »

OP, some members are saying you are lucky that your neighbor is willing to foot half of the cost. You live in California which passed the Good Neighbor Fence Act in 2013, which requires neighbors with a shared fence line to share the replacement cost of a fence equally.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/face ... ionNum=841.

Of course that fact needs to be tempered with the desire to maintain good relationships with your neighbors. I replaced a 70' long section of fence and did the labor mostly myself at a cost of about $3,500. I paid one carpenter $35 an hour to assist me. I demoed the old fence and hauled away myself. I used galvanized fence posts that are sold by Home Depot but cut the price in half by buying them directly from the manufacturer and picking them up at their location in the east bay. The posts come in various lengths and I got the 8' variety, wanting to sink the posts 2' in concrete. I then used my portaband saw to cut them all level after the concrete hardened.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PostMaster- ... /307938011

Although expensive, these posts give you a lot of flexibility. I enclosed the back of each post with matching wood so that none of the metal was visible from either side. No wood touches dirt as the bottom of the fence due to a new pea gravel strip at the base. I think the rate you were quoted was fine. If I wouldn't have done most of the labor my cost would have easily doubled. I used redwood, but cedar is probably a better choice. Both deter insects.
socaldude
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Re: Replacing 20yrs old wooden fence and situation with neighbors

Post by socaldude »

Ya gotta live with your neighbor... so go 50/50. Metal posts in cement, cedar slats with 3 2x4's cross. Use redwood or treated redwood for the 2x4's, cedar is too soft. Screws work better than nails. Also, if you want it to last---DOUBLE COAT ALL EXPOSED SIDES AND EDGES OF WOOD WITH A SOLID STAIN/PAINT !! Signed: A veteran fence builder.
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