Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

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Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

wilked wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:42 pm
Gadget wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:28 pm
Squirrel208 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:57 am
wilked wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:17 pm *Requires annual flushes and 5 year full maintenance - Not too big a deal, but is more than I do with the tanks
FWIW tank-style water heaters require annual flushing too. Many plumbing pros recommend even shorter intervals, such as every 6 months. Sediment buildup is more likely to occur in a tank due to the increased volume and duration of water sitting in the tank.
I'm apparently just ignorant. I had no idea a tankless required annual and/or 5 year full maintenance. We've had ours since 2009 and I haven't touched it.

What are you supposed to flush in a tankless? This makes more sense to me on a tank system where you could get buildup at the bottom of the tank.
Mainly descaling / removing buildup on the tubes. As noted above CLE does it nicely. I’ve heard there are potentially service ports for it? I think the 5 year probably replaces the gas-fired elements or something like this
these types of valves are typically installed on the bottom of a tankless water heater.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft- ... lsrc=aw.ds

make sure its off/unplugged.

you need a bucket, and a small pump and two short hoses (i use hot water hoses)... turn the valves, hook up my pump to a hot water hose to the cold valve (inlet), and then have a hose on the hot side back to the bucket. .. and pump a vinegar water solution through it for a while..

Then i leave the hot hose hooked up.. disconnect the cold hose/pump... open the cold valve and flush into my bucket for a minute or two.. then close off the hot valve side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzXsC4EXyxg

store all your parts in the bucket, and buy a new vinegar jug as needed if you don't keep it on hand.

its super easy.

and one can buy an overpriced flush kit:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flush-Kit-f ... /202798886
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
Panky
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by Panky »

neilpilot wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:30 pm Unless you spend extra for a battery backup, the tankless heater's controls will not function if your electricity goes out. The basic Bradford While gas heater doesn't use an electrical power source.
Some of the tankless gas ones actually have a piezoelectric igniter/lighter so they will still work without power. Parents have one in their mountain cabin I believe - plenty of hot water via the propane tank even when the power is out.

But this is probably a feature you have to check on.
seawolf21
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by seawolf21 »

wilked wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:17 pm My understanding of the tankless, and my thoughts on it:
*Unlimited hot water! - Why would I want this? I don't want unlimited, I only want 'enough'. With our current 40 gal heater unless we take back-back-back showers we don't run out. I think it's happened twice. With 80 gal I think it'd be extremely difficult to run out.
*More efficient energy-wise - Our gas bill is very low in the summer (when we're not using it for heat), maybe it's $25/month? I could maybe see $100/yr savings here, which is not enough to account for the additional upfront cost.
*Takes up less room - Not important to me with a big unfinished basement
*Requires annual flushes and 5 year full maintenance - Not too big a deal, but is more than I do with the tanks
*Will be slower to get hot water, maybe 40 seconds - This might be frustrating. I know you can add things like circulation loops / etc but that is more complexity and money.
I ran the numbers as well and stuck with natural gas. It depends on your gas vs. electric rates.
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Yesterdaysnews
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by Yesterdaysnews »

If you have a water softener, you don’t need to descale every year. Every 3-5 years is fine.
jajlrajrf
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by jajlrajrf »

Tankless water heater was the best home improvement I made after a new kitchen. Absolutely life changing and people living with hot water tanks are living like savages. The space you recover in the basement alone is worth it.
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fortfun
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by fortfun »

I would never spend the money on it. All my friends that have them spent a ton of money and have a lot of problems. I've had my 2-40 gallon tanks for 16 years. ZERO problems and they are fairly efficient too.
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sgr000
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by sgr000 »

We got a gas-fired tankless water heater when the old one started to give out:
  • On the one hand, it was about 4x more expensive than getting a tanked replacement. (New England plumbers, you know.)
  • On the other hand, we never run out of hot water, and that comfort factor has more than justified the expense. (Japanese spouse, you know. High cultural premium on the availability of hot baths.)
  • On the gripping hand, it's gas-fired. I wish there were such a thing as an electric-driven heat pump tankless water heater. Then when I put in the 2nd round of heat pumps for HVAC and lose the gas furnace, I could drop the gas connection entirely, possibly in favor of solar electric and batteries.
The brand is Navien. It wasn't going to be my first choice, for various bogus reasons. But our very good plumbers had experience with a lot of them, and I've finally learned to take advice from experienced people like that. It really does just work.
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Yesterdaysnews
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by Yesterdaysnews »

Where I live in Texas it’s apparently allowed by code to put the water heaters in the attic. So I have a total of 200 gallons of water sitting in my attic.... makes me nervous not going to lie. I will probably switch to tankless in the next few years just for peace of mind!
bugleheadd
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by bugleheadd »

sounds like i'll just stick to my 50 gal tank in my house. tanks arent that expensive and last a while. dont need endless hot water.
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Lee_WSP
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by Lee_WSP »

If you're still deciding, why not a faster recharging gas fifty or sixty gallon? It's bound to be cheaper, you go tankless for convenience not Financial efficiency.
poker27
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by poker27 »

Yesterdaysnews wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:25 pm Where I live in Texas it’s apparently allowed by code to put the water heaters in the attic. So I have a total of 200 gallons of water sitting in my attic.... makes me nervous not going to lie. I will probably switch to tankless in the next few years just for peace of mind!

Funny, I’m in Chicago, and have been reading this thread for the same reason. Idk how many gallons my water heater is, but it is sitting right above my bed in the attic. Probably pushing 15 years old... I try not to think about it
IMO
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by IMO »

fortfun wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:19 pm I would never spend the money on it. All my friends that have them spent a ton of money and have a lot of problems. I've had my 2-40 gallon tanks for 16 years. ZERO problems and they are fairly efficient too.
I've been seriously considering a tankless (natural gas) to replace our aging tank heater. Primary reason would be to re-claim some limited/valuable real estate in the garage. While this would cost a couple thousand $$ extra it would be nice to have the space. But then I read your post and other posts about issues with these and it gives me significant pause.
CurlyDave
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by CurlyDave »

poker27 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:18 pm
Yesterdaysnews wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:25 pm Where I live in Texas it’s apparently allowed by code to put the water heaters in the attic. So I have a total of 200 gallons of water sitting in my attic.... makes me nervous not going to lie. I will probably switch to tankless in the next few years just for peace of mind!

Funny, I’m in Chicago, and have been reading this thread for the same reason. Idk how many gallons my water heater is, but it is sitting right above my bed in the attic. Probably pushing 15 years old... I try not to think about it
I hate to mention this but IMHO the real danger of a hot water tank is the gas fire inside it. That is the stuff that disasters are made of.

Leaking water, even leaking hot water is a minor issue compared to a fire.
Answering a question is easy -- asking the right question is the hard part.
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wilked
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by wilked »

Lee_WSP wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:49 pm If you're still deciding, why not a faster recharging gas fifty or sixty gallon? It's bound to be cheaper, you go tankless for convenience not Financial efficiency.
I'm landing on a 50 gal quick recovery. Bradford White makes a 65k BTU model that looks good
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bradford-Wh ... er-Nat-Gas
Nowizard
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by Nowizard »

Environmentally, may make sense. As with many things, fear is a selling point. In this case the fear of flooding. How many know of this occurring? At an advanced age, I know of no instances other than as part of a much larger circumstance such as a fire. If having one, expect to want smaller heaters in particular places. None for our house based on experiences of friends who have them. Just a personal opinion.

Tim
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Lee_WSP
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by Lee_WSP »

Nowizard wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:37 am Environmentally, may make sense. As with many things, fear is a selling point. In this case the fear of flooding. How many know of this occurring? At an advanced age, I know of no instances other than as part of a much larger circumstance such as a fire. If having one, expect to want smaller heaters in particular places. None for our house based on experiences of friends who have them. Just a personal opinion.

Tim
Water heater flooding is one of those highly unlikely but large impact events that are completely preventable and covered under fine owners insurance.

Most "floods" are just a puddle.
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by iamblessed »

I would not go tankless. I don't think I would ever get my money back. We bought the cheapest water heater 32 years ago. I just took a shower with it today. In the summer it and the gas stove use about $5.50 a month in gas.
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bertilak
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by bertilak »

I justified it in two ways, which probably do no apply to most people:

1. I was building a new house so, even though the tankless heater was expensive, it didn't make much difference to my mortgage payment. In other words, cost wasn't much of a consideration.
2. Floor space was limited: No basement and crowded attic. I didn't want to find space for a hot water tank.
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sunny_socal
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by sunny_socal »

Having just made it through a winter storm that froze both of our tankless heaters, I'd never get one. (For some reason they are installed on the outside of the house.) A large tank heater will also provide a source of clean drinking water during a disaster.

I would never voluntarily get a tankless heater. They are a fad.
CurlyDave wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:07 am
poker27 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:18 pm
Yesterdaysnews wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:25 pm Where I live in Texas it’s apparently allowed by code to put the water heaters in the attic. So I have a total of 200 gallons of water sitting in my attic.... makes me nervous not going to lie. I will probably switch to tankless in the next few years just for peace of mind!

Funny, I’m in Chicago, and have been reading this thread for the same reason. Idk how many gallons my water heater is, but it is sitting right above my bed in the attic. Probably pushing 15 years old... I try not to think about it
I hate to mention this but IMHO the real danger of a hot water tank is the gas fire inside it. That is the stuff that disasters are made of.

Leaking water, even leaking hot water is a minor issue compared to a fire.
There's a fire in the tankless heater too...
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bertilak
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by bertilak »

sunny_socal wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:46 am Having just made it through a winter storm that froze both of our tankless heaters, I'd never get one. (For some reason they are installed on the outside of the house.) A large tank heater will also provide a source of clean drinking water during a disaster.
I have had a tankless heater (Rinnai) for 14 years. It froze for the first time this year. This was a only minor annoyance because there is a power outlet right next to it. I used some heat tape and was back in hot water shortly. I was going to put a 60 watt bulb in the enclosure but happened to have some heat tape.

But I agree, a stand-by supply of hot water is nice.

Years ago, when living in a very cold climate we used the light bulb trick so our cars would start in the morning. Some people got fancier and had purpose-built block heaters. The apartment complex where I lived had power outlets at each parking spot just for this.

They are installed on the outside of the house (in the wall) for at least two reasons:
  1. Convenient access to the gas line
  2. Minimize the need for inside floor space or access
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
CurlyDave
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by CurlyDave »

sunny_socal wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:46 am
...There's a fire in the tankless heater too...
And, it is a much bigger fire than in a tank-type water heater.
Answering a question is easy -- asking the right question is the hard part.
jucor
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Re: Tankless Water Heater - Struggling to Justify

Post by jucor »

CurlyDave wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:07 am
poker27 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:18 pm
Yesterdaysnews wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:25 pm Where I live in Texas it’s apparently allowed by code to put the water heaters in the attic. So I have a total of 200 gallons of water sitting in my attic.... makes me nervous not going to lie. I will probably switch to tankless in the next few years just for peace of mind!

Funny, I’m in Chicago, and have been reading this thread for the same reason. Idk how many gallons my water heater is, but it is sitting right above my bed in the attic. Probably pushing 15 years old... I try not to think about it
I hate to mention this but IMHO the real danger of a hot water tank is the gas fire inside it. That is the stuff that disasters are made of.

Leaking water, even leaking hot water is a minor issue compared to a fire.
If fire as part of the normal functioning of an appliance causes high levels of fear I'd suggest staying away from gas furnaces, gas ranges and ovens, and gas barbecue grills. too....

And maybe give serious consideration to avoiding things that combine fire and explosions -- such as lawnmowers, internal combustion engined cars, etc... :shock: :sharebeer
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