Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
investor_8675309
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:19 pm

Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by investor_8675309 »

[Moved into a new thread from: Can I stop working? --admin LadyGeek]
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 am
investor_8675309 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:06 pm LBYM is so engrained in me. Depression era parents who did well but were never extravagant. Grandparents who retired early on pensions, but with little education - prison guard, toll booth collector. I’ve been a Boglehead for years, lurking even in the M* days.

Meanwhile my colleagues own second and third homes. Some own planes and yachts and multiple really expensive sports cars. None of that appeals to me.

I feel like a fish out of water sometimes - we are three drivers and the car is 16 years old and needs a cassette deck adapter to play music from the phone. Colleagues just don’t get that “drive it to the junkyard” mindset.

I’ve been incredibly fortunate but am realizing that I need to prioritize my happiness more than I have. Health - emotional and physical - as well.
That seems so penny wise and pound foolish to drive a 16 year old car.... even the safest car from 16 years ago isn’t on par with today’s tech and safety features. You don’t need a Bentley but please buy a new car.

What’s more likely some doomsday scenario where you end up eating dog food because your $6 Million evaporates or you get into a car accident?
We have side curtain airbags, antilock brakes. What are the most compelling features in your view?
VGisforme
Posts: 145
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by VGisforme »

investor_8675309 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:59 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 am
investor_8675309 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:06 pm LBYM is so engrained in me. Depression era parents who did well but were never extravagant. Grandparents who retired early on pensions, but with little education - prison guard, toll booth collector. I’ve been a Boglehead for years, lurking even in the M* days.

Meanwhile my colleagues own second and third homes. Some own planes and yachts and multiple really expensive sports cars. None of that appeals to me.

I feel like a fish out of water sometimes - we are three drivers and the car is 16 years old and needs a cassette deck adapter to play music from the phone. Colleagues just don’t get that “drive it to the junkyard” mindset.

I’ve been incredibly fortunate but am realizing that I need to prioritize my happiness more than I have. Health - emotional and physical - as well.
That seems so penny wise and pound foolish to drive a 16 year old car.... even the safest car from 16 years ago isn’t on par with today’s tech and safety features. You don’t need a Bentley but please buy a new car.

What’s more likely some doomsday scenario where you end up eating dog food because your $6 Million evaporates or you get into a car accident?
We have side curtain airbags, antilock brakes. What are the most compelling features in your view?
There are numerous... start with the newer offset crash test that wasn’t even around 16 years ago! The entire structure of cars has changed.

There are also crash avoidance and lane keeping and automatic braking features.

I wish I could afford a safer car with larger brakes and more tech.

I forgot the side impact standards that went in 2009!
Jacotus
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by Jacotus »

Electronic stability control was an absolute game changer at reducing car accident fatalities and accidents in general. I would buy a newer car for electronic stability control alone.

Also crash sensors with automatic braking, or auto-detection if you're about to change lanes into someone to the side. Backup camera is pretty important too even as a safety feature, not just convenience, e.g. for avoiding hitting small children who might be behind the car. There are probably other safety features and general incremental improvements I'm not fully knowledgeable about.

Also nice features are adaptive cruise control and blind spot detection.
Topic Author
investor_8675309
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by investor_8675309 »

Jacotus wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:10 am Electronic stability control was an absolute game changer at reducing car accident fatalities and accidents in general. I would buy a newer car for electronic stability control alone.

Also crash sensors with automatic braking, or auto-detection if you're about to change lanes into someone to the side. Backup camera is pretty important too even as a safety feature, not just convenience, e.g. for avoiding hitting small children who might be behind the car. There are probably other safety features and general incremental improvements I'm not fully knowledgeable about.

Also nice features are adaptive cruise control and blind spot detection.
Can you suggest a manufacturer? I need something with a hatch rather than a trunk. I carry bulky sport gear in back and keep the seats folded down a lot. I also carry lumber on occasion.
Jacotus
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by Jacotus »

investor_8675309 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:30 am
Jacotus wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:10 am Electronic stability control was an absolute game changer at reducing car accident fatalities and accidents in general. I would buy a newer car for electronic stability control alone.

Also crash sensors with automatic braking, or auto-detection if you're about to change lanes into someone to the side. Backup camera is pretty important too even as a safety feature, not just convenience, e.g. for avoiding hitting small children who might be behind the car. There are probably other safety features and general incremental improvements I'm not fully knowledgeable about.

Also nice features are adaptive cruise control and blind spot detection.
Can you suggest a manufacturer? I need something with a hatch rather than a trunk. I carry bulky sport gear in back and keep the seats folded down a lot. I also carry lumber on occasion.
Fortunately, Electronic Stability Control became standard on every car model in the US by 2012. Anything you buy today will be a marked improvement in safety over your current car! So feel free to just buy whatever kind of car you like.
Topic Author
investor_8675309
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by investor_8675309 »

Jacotus wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:40 am
investor_8675309 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:30 am
Jacotus wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:10 am Electronic stability control was an absolute game changer at reducing car accident fatalities and accidents in general. I would buy a newer car for electronic stability control alone.

Also crash sensors with automatic braking, or auto-detection if you're about to change lanes into someone to the side. Backup camera is pretty important too even as a safety feature, not just convenience, e.g. for avoiding hitting small children who might be behind the car. There are probably other safety features and general incremental improvements I'm not fully knowledgeable about.

Also nice features are adaptive cruise control and blind spot detection.
Can you suggest a manufacturer? I need something with a hatch rather than a trunk. I carry bulky sport gear in back and keep the seats folded down a lot. I also carry lumber on occasion.
Fortunately, Electronic Stability Control became standard on every car model in the US by 2012. Anything you buy today will be a marked improvement in safety over your current car! So feel free to just buy whatever kind of car you like.
Looks like my 2005 Toyota has it.
Jacotus
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by Jacotus »

investor_8675309 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:53 am
Jacotus wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:40 am Fortunately, Electronic Stability Control became standard on every car model in the US by 2012. Anything you buy today will be a marked improvement in safety over your current car! So feel free to just buy whatever kind of car you like.
Looks like my 2005 Toyota has it.
Even better. That said, there are definite improvements in overall construction in addition to other features nowadays compared to 2005. I don't know crash ratings off the top of my head though.
Derpalator
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by Derpalator »

VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 am
investor_8675309 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:06 pm LBYM is so engrained in me. Depression era parents who did well but were never extravagant. Grandparents who retired early on pensions, but with little education - prison guard, toll booth collector. I’ve been a Boglehead for years, lurking even in the M* days.

Meanwhile my colleagues own second and third homes. Some own planes and yachts and multiple really expensive sports cars. None of that appeals to me.

I feel like a fish out of water sometimes - we are three drivers and the car is 16 years old and needs a cassette deck adapter to play music from the phone. Colleagues just don’t get that “drive it to the junkyard” mindset.

I’ve been incredibly fortunate but am realizing that I need to prioritize my happiness more than I have. Health - emotional and physical - as well.
That seems so penny wise and pound foolish to drive a 16 year old car.... even the safest car from 16 years ago isn’t on par with today’s tech and safety features. You don’t need a Bentley but please buy a new car.

What’s more likely some doomsday scenario where you end up eating dog food because your $6 Million evaporates or you get into a car accident?
I drive a 16 yr old Rx 330 and DW drives a 22 yr old Rx 300. I had a head on collision with a semi a decade or so ago (at relatively low speed) and while my car was totalled, I walked away shaken up with two small scratches, but no serious injuries. When GEICO gave me the check for another car, I bought the same model, saved 1000 dollars and the replacement car had 12,000 less miles on it! Still driving same car now with 245,000 miles. DW is at 305,000 miles.

Really, a quality car, even if older, can be safe, even compared to today's.
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Devil's Advocate
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by Devil's Advocate »

Derpalator wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:46 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 am
investor_8675309 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:06 pm LBYM is so engrained in me. Depression era parents who did well but were never extravagant. Grandparents who retired early on pensions, but with little education - prison guard, toll booth collector. I’ve been a Boglehead for years, lurking even in the M* days.

Meanwhile my colleagues own second and third homes. Some own planes and yachts and multiple really expensive sports cars. None of that appeals to me.

I feel like a fish out of water sometimes - we are three drivers and the car is 16 years old and needs a cassette deck adapter to play music from the phone. Colleagues just don’t get that “drive it to the junkyard” mindset.

I’ve been incredibly fortunate but am realizing that I need to prioritize my happiness more than I have. Health - emotional and physical - as well.
That seems so penny wise and pound foolish to drive a 16 year old car.... even the safest car from 16 years ago isn’t on par with today’s tech and safety features. You don’t need a Bentley but please buy a new car.

What’s more likely some doomsday scenario where you end up eating dog food because your $6 Million evaporates or you get into a car accident?
I drive a 16 yr old Rx 330 and DW drives a 22 yr old Rx 300. I had a head on collision with a semi a decade or so ago (at relatively low speed) and while my car was totalled, I walked away shaken up with two small scratches, but no serious injuries. When GEICO gave me the check for another car, I bought the same model, saved 1000 dollars and the replacement car had 12,000 less miles on it! Still driving same car now with 245,000 miles. DW is at 305,000 miles.

Really, a quality car, even if older, can be safe, even compared to today's.
Yes

It seems to me whenever someone starts talking about new safety features it is just a rationalization to buy a new car, financial consequences be dammed.

DA
VGisforme
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by VGisforme »

Devil's Advocate wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:14 am
Derpalator wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:46 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 am
investor_8675309 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:06 pm LBYM is so engrained in me. Depression era parents who did well but were never extravagant. Grandparents who retired early on pensions, but with little education - prison guard, toll booth collector. I’ve been a Boglehead for years, lurking even in the M* days.

Meanwhile my colleagues own second and third homes. Some own planes and yachts and multiple really expensive sports cars. None of that appeals to me.

I feel like a fish out of water sometimes - we are three drivers and the car is 16 years old and needs a cassette deck adapter to play music from the phone. Colleagues just don’t get that “drive it to the junkyard” mindset.

I’ve been incredibly fortunate but am realizing that I need to prioritize my happiness more than I have. Health - emotional and physical - as well.
That seems so penny wise and pound foolish to drive a 16 year old car.... even the safest car from 16 years ago isn’t on par with today’s tech and safety features. You don’t need a Bentley but please buy a new car.

What’s more likely some doomsday scenario where you end up eating dog food because your $6 Million evaporates or you get into a car accident?
I drive a 16 yr old Rx 330 and DW drives a 22 yr old Rx 300. I had a head on collision with a semi a decade or so ago (at relatively low speed) and while my car was totalled, I walked away shaken up with two small scratches, but no serious injuries. When GEICO gave me the check for another car, I bought the same model, saved 1000 dollars and the replacement car had 12,000 less miles on it! Still driving same car now with 245,000 miles. DW is at 305,000 miles.

Really, a quality car, even if older, can be safe, even compared to today's.
Yes

It seems to me whenever someone starts talking about new safety features it is just a rationalization to buy a new car, financial consequences be dammed.

DA
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!

Glad you had a head on collision not a small front overlap or side impact.... two tests that weren’t conducted in 2005 and structural improvements that were made since then.

We aren’t telling him to spend $100k or even $70k he can get a Honda Pilot or Hynduai Pallisades or Subaru Ascent and fold all the seats and have a much safer car for $40k which is a rounding error on many of his accounts.
chazas
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by chazas »

This descent into un-asked for “advice” about driving a new car is odd. People spend money on what they want to spend money on and save where it makes them feel good. I clip coupons and shop sales at the grocery store - people think I’m odd to do it but I don’t care.
VGisforme
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by VGisforme »

chazas wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:59 am This descent into un-asked for “advice” about driving a new car is odd. People spend money on what they want to spend money on and save where it makes them feel good. I clip coupons and shop sales at the grocery store - people think I’m odd to do it but I don’t care.
Sometimes people don’t perceive risk appropriately and have blind spots (not just when driving a car which modern tech will alert you to!)

Part of what makes this forum great is the ability to get rational advice even in areas that might seem unsolicited. I stay away from some subjects because they are debatable but in this case a safe car built in 2021 outperforms a safe car built in 2005 or 1998 for some posters, in every imaginable category and in several that weren’t around 15-20 years ago.

OP is more worried about someone potentially breaking into his $40k car parked on the street then getting injured or killed in his 2005 car.... I view that as an issue you can replace a car not people.

The posters on here that that drive another season on bald tires to save $100 on a rebate at Costco are some of the same ones that would spend 2 hours chasing another $100 bonus on a credit offer. It makes no sense and some are completely blind to the unnecessary risks they take.

If my posts help on poster buy a new set of tires because oh yeah they did hydroplane a bit during last months storm.... or trade in that 22 year old car for a modern safer vehicle then I’ll feel better.

OP doesn’t need a $110k Tesla or a $250k Bentley but a $40k Hyundai or Honda or Toyota will do just fine.

Stop worrying about putting lumber into your new car and worry about the safety of the occupants!

This is like having life insurance but not disability insurance...
Last edited by VGisforme on Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
H-Town
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by H-Town »

VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
Time is the ultimate currency.
VGisforme
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by VGisforme »

H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
ajcp
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by ajcp »

H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.
I have to laugh that whenever people want to talk about unsafe drivers, they so often feel the need to specify teenagers. Just a few weeks ago in my town, someone drove into a restaurant (in the most literal way possible), because they mixed up the gas and the brakes. Luckily there were no casualties, just a large amount of damage to the building. But the really crazy thing is that this wasn't my town's first driving into a building incident in the last 2 years, and the reasons were identical. I'll leave it up to readers to guess what age bracket both drivers shared.
Wannaretireearly
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Zillions wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:38 pm
Carousel wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:19 pm
Maybe you have guilt related to financial success or a work ethic thing? (Depression-era parents, telling us about the prison guard & the tollbooth collector, colleagues with yachts & multiple homes vs your beater car.) Some of these thread comments are not going to help with this. Walk tall!

Bogleheads all like money and it is awesome that you have a big salary and saved up a small fortune! You have all the choices in the world now! But ...

....
but it kind of felt like you were apologizing for success, and there is NO REASON to do that to some randos on the internet.)
He has an old beater car, but has a 150K/year lifestyle. That sounds ...strange.
IMO, stop picking at this relatively minor point.
It's cos he's frugal that he has amassed big $.
Beater cars have purpose and may be trouble free.

I had a 15 year old Toyota before it got totalled. I got some stick for it from co-workers, but it worked. Got totalled and then got a new vehicle.

Edit: it was a Solara convertible. Still miss it. Ideally I'd have kept it and bought a new vehicle for longer trips.

Why the hate on the old car? OP could be spending 50k+ on travel, not cars, just for now. Things change, give him a break!
Last edited by Wannaretireearly on Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
cshell2
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by cshell2 »

VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:45 am
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
Let it go already. Not everyone is that obsessed by a .000001% increase in safety, and if my car spent 90% of it's time parked on the street I wouldn't want it to be a new one either. My cars are 16 and 25 years old and as long as they do what I want from them I'm happy (start and run reliably 100% of the time). Unfortunately, one of them has been having issues and I'm not sure if I trust it outside of a 50 mile radius from home, so I've been shopping, but the thought of spending money on a new(er) vehicle makes me ill. To me, all the electronics in the new cars screams "expensive headaches" in the future not increased safety...although, I'll admit I'm looking forward to having a backup camera...that's about it though. The rest? Meh.
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Watty
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by Watty »

investor_8675309 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:57 pm I’m really surprised by the unkind remarks folks have been posting. BH didn’t used to be like that.
I agree that a lot of what was said was uncalled for. Sorry about that.
investor_8675309 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:24 am Also, I use the car to haul stuff around.
If you retire you may find that you drive more if you are doing more day and longer road trips.

I normally keep cars about ten years but a few years ago I replaced an 8 year old car early and getting the new advanced safety features was one of the main reasons. My prior car did not even have ESC.

Here is the "go to" web site that rates car safety.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks

The high tech things like automatic braking are great but one often overlooked safety feature is that they have also make a LOT of advances in the headlight technology with the LED headlights. The first time I drove my new car at night I immediately noticed a remarkable difference.

There are endless different opinions about what what car to buy but the Subaru Forester is on my short list if I can ever get my wife to replace her pickup truck. That is often mentioned in car threads so it would be worth adding to your list of cars to consider.

It is a bit morbid and there are lots and lots of factors but one measure of car safety is the driver death rate per million registered cars. The most recent data is for the 2017 model year and it had a driver death rate of 36. For cars in the 2004 model year it was 79.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-dea ... -and-model

At least by that measure the advances in car safety have been huge and it will be real interesting to see how the new advanced safety features that have come out in the last few years impacts the driver death rate when that data is available.
wander
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by wander »

VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:45 am
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
My car was 20 years old stopping at the traffic lights. The car behind me was driven by a young driver with a little kid, stopped behind me then suddenly accelerated and hit my car directly. His car was totaled and there wasn't a scratch on my car. When the police came look at my car, he laughed and suggested that I didn't need a police report but looking at another car, I told him that I needed one in case the other driver wanted to challend my liability.
Just because you drive a new car with all the bells and whistles, it doesn't save you from careless minds. My car is old, with no blindspot feature, but the body is very solid and I am safe driving it. I drive an old car, but I am a car guy and know what to do to keep car at top performance. I think not many new cars can drive like my V8: quiet, and powerful.
But I agree with you. There is no point for a guy with $6M driving a beater if the beater is no longer safe.
VGisforme
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by VGisforme »

cshell2 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:16 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:45 am
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
Let it go already. Not everyone is that obsessed by a .000001% increase in safety, and if my car spent 90% of it's time parked on the street I wouldn't want it to be a new one either. My cars are 16 and 25 years old and as long as they do what I want from them I'm happy (start and run reliably 100% of the time). Unfortunately, one of them has been having issues and I'm not sure if I trust it outside of a 50 mile radius from home, so I've been shopping, but the thought of spending money on a new(er) vehicle makes me ill. To me, all the electronics in the new cars screams "expensive headaches" in the future not increased safety...although, I'll admit I'm looking forward to having a backup camera...that's about it though. The rest? Meh.
At some point there is diminishing returns on safety in a car but if you think the difference between your 25 year old car and a new car is 0.000001% you are mistaken.

I generally don’t care to comment on how folks save or spend money or any risky behaviors they engage but at least admit the facts. You derive more joy and satisfaction telling us about your 16 and 25 year old cars and having some more money in the bank than you would enjoy having a safer vehicle....

I had a 2006 car from 2011 thru 2020 and replaced it with a used 2019 model. I’m no stranger to balancing safety and finances but if I had $6 Million I would drive a safer car and so would my wife. The fact it had more luxury features would be a nice side benefit.

If my wife was disabled or died in a side impact while driving a 20+ year old car while we had $6 million in assets I don’t think that would sit well....

You’ll probably be fine driving a 1968 Dodge Charger with lap belts and a padded dash but why do it? That Charger might cost $50-150k now depending on engine options so this isn’t about money 😏
Jacotus
Posts: 586
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:07 pm

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by Jacotus »

cshell2 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:16 am Let it go already. Not everyone is that obsessed by a .000001% increase in safety, and if my car spent 90% of it's time parked on the street I wouldn't want it to be a new one either. My cars are 16 and 25 years old and as long as they do what I want from them I'm happy (start and run reliably 100% of the time).
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroni ... ectiveness
Wikipedia wrote: The NHTSA concluded that ESC reduces crashes by 35%. Additionally, SUVs with stability control are involved in 67% fewer accidents than SUVs without the system. ... The IIHS study concluded that ESC reduces the likelihood of all fatal crashes by 43%, fatal single-vehicle crashes by 56%, and fatal single-vehicle rollovers by 77–80%.
This is no small gain. 16 years ago ESC was not completely standard. OP's car fortunately has it.
cshell2
Posts: 1204
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 10:29 am

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by cshell2 »

VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:50 am
cshell2 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:16 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:45 am
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
Let it go already. Not everyone is that obsessed by a .000001% increase in safety, and if my car spent 90% of it's time parked on the street I wouldn't want it to be a new one either. My cars are 16 and 25 years old and as long as they do what I want from them I'm happy (start and run reliably 100% of the time). Unfortunately, one of them has been having issues and I'm not sure if I trust it outside of a 50 mile radius from home, so I've been shopping, but the thought of spending money on a new(er) vehicle makes me ill. To me, all the electronics in the new cars screams "expensive headaches" in the future not increased safety...although, I'll admit I'm looking forward to having a backup camera...that's about it though. The rest? Meh.
At some point there is diminishing returns on safety in a car but if you think the difference between your 25 year old car and a new car is 0.000001% you are mistaken.

I generally don’t care to comment on how folks save or spend money or any risky behaviors they engage but at least admit the facts. You derive more joy and satisfaction telling us about your 16 and 25 year old cars and having some more money in the bank than you would enjoy having a safer vehicle....

I had a 2006 car from 2011 thru 2020 and replaced it with a used 2019 model. I’m no stranger to balancing safety and finances but if I had $6 Million I would drive a safer car and so would my wife. The fact it had more luxury features would be a nice side benefit.

If my wife was disabled or died in a side impact while driving a 20+ year old car while we had $6 million in assets I don’t think that would sit well....

You’ll probably be fine driving a 1968 Dodge Charger with lap belts and a padded dash but why do it? That Charger might cost $50-150k now depending on engine options so this isn’t about money 😏
My point is, he's fine with it, so quit hounding him about it. You sound like a car salesman. :wink: I'm pretty sure my snowmobile and ATV hobbies are far more risky than taking my 97 Camry to work, and a lot of those safety features are not really helpful where I live anyhow. I can see lane assist and blind spot avoidance being great in cities, but I live in a rural area where there's nothing but 2 lane roads, many of those gravel. If they start making cars that keep the deer away or tell you where the road is when it's snow covered from the field on your left to the field on your right I'll be all over that.
VGisforme
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 2:08 pm

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by VGisforme »

cshell2 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:14 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:50 am
cshell2 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:16 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:45 am
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am

lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
Let it go already. Not everyone is that obsessed by a .000001% increase in safety, and if my car spent 90% of it's time parked on the street I wouldn't want it to be a new one either. My cars are 16 and 25 years old and as long as they do what I want from them I'm happy (start and run reliably 100% of the time). Unfortunately, one of them has been having issues and I'm not sure if I trust it outside of a 50 mile radius from home, so I've been shopping, but the thought of spending money on a new(er) vehicle makes me ill. To me, all the electronics in the new cars screams "expensive headaches" in the future not increased safety...although, I'll admit I'm looking forward to having a backup camera...that's about it though. The rest? Meh.
At some point there is diminishing returns on safety in a car but if you think the difference between your 25 year old car and a new car is 0.000001% you are mistaken.

I generally don’t care to comment on how folks save or spend money or any risky behaviors they engage but at least admit the facts. You derive more joy and satisfaction telling us about your 16 and 25 year old cars and having some more money in the bank than you would enjoy having a safer vehicle....

I had a 2006 car from 2011 thru 2020 and replaced it with a used 2019 model. I’m no stranger to balancing safety and finances but if I had $6 Million I would drive a safer car and so would my wife. The fact it had more luxury features would be a nice side benefit.

If my wife was disabled or died in a side impact while driving a 20+ year old car while we had $6 million in assets I don’t think that would sit well....

You’ll probably be fine driving a 1968 Dodge Charger with lap belts and a padded dash but why do it? That Charger might cost $50-150k now depending on engine options so this isn’t about money 😏
My point is, he's fine with it, so quit hounding him about it. You sound like a car salesman. :wink: I'm pretty sure my snowmobile and ATV hobbies are far more risky than taking my 97 Camry to work, and a lot of those safety features are not really helpful where I live anyhow. I can see lane assist and blind spot avoidance being great in cities, but I live in a rural area where there's nothing but 2 lane roads, many of those gravel. If they start making cars that keep the deer away or tell you where the road is when it's snow covered from the field on your left to the field on your right I'll be all over that.
The OP actually asked about safety features and stated his use case for the car etc.

Snowmobile and ATV use are fun so you balance the risk.... there isn’t anything fun about a 97 Camry lacking the safety structure of a newer Camry.

Having better side impact protection is valid wherever you drive.

You have more fun touting your old car and the money you saved then buying a newer safer model and that your informed decision. Some folks just don’t consider the more modern safety aspect for cars so I don’t feel bad for pointing it out.

Like the ancient Greeks said; all things in moderation. You don’t need to buy a new car every 2-3 years or even 7-8 but if you have 20-50x expenses in assets you probably are taking too big a risk driving a 15+ year old car even if it is a Volvo!

Headlights, air bag and stability tech, crash structure for small overlap and side impact etc. so much has changed in last 15 years.
H-Town
Posts: 5905
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:08 pm

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by H-Town »

VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:45 am
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
You'd have a great career as a car salesman, if you're not already one already.

Now, humor me. Which car should I buy to avoid getting t-boned by a red-light runner? It'd be great if you also have a youtube video demonstrate that feature. You'd blow my mind if you can show me a car that can jump 50 feet in the air, staying aloaft, and flying to a safe place. Too much sci-fi?

Meanwhile drivers will just do what they normally do. Be mindful of surrounding. Look both ways before accelerating at green light.

My 10 year old American made car is tough. It has been hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car in a parking lot. The Camry sustained heavy damage and had to be towed. The hit-and-run car left behind plenty of plastic and a front bumper. My car just had some scratches and some dents. My car doesn't have any safety tech. Just a reliable and powerful engine.

Note that I find all the new tech feature such as lane keep assist, blind spot detection, pedestrian detection, cross traffic alert, cruise control, automatic breaking are all gimmick. Maybe cruise control can help with driver fatigue as someone in the upthread pointed out, so I can see some value in it. But overall, all the safety tech are just gimmicks. I can pay cash for a couple of Tesla right now, but I don't see any value buying one.

It's a pitfall that people think they can fix problems by just throwing money at it. Take a step back and think about it with a clear mind. Sometimes the solution is not always throwing the money at the issue.
Time is the ultimate currency.
stoptothink
Posts: 15368
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by stoptothink »

H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:45 am
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
You'd have a great career as a car salesman, if you're not already one already.

Now, humor me. Which car should I buy to avoid getting t-boned by a red-light runner? It'd be great if you also have a youtube video demonstrate that feature. You'd blow my mind if you can show me a car that can jump 50 feet in the air, staying aloaft, and flying to a safe place. Too much sci-fi?

Meanwhile drivers will just do what they normally do. Be mindful of surrounding. Look both ways before accelerating at green light.

My 10 year old American made car is tough. It has been hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car in a parking lot. The Camry sustained heavy damage and had to be towed. The hit-and-run car left behind plenty of plastic and a front bumper. My car just had some scratches and some dents. My car doesn't have any safety tech. Just a reliable and powerful engine.

Note that I find all the new tech feature such as lane keep assist, blind spot detection, pedestrian detection, cross traffic alert, cruise control, automatic breaking are all gimmick. Maybe cruise control can help with driver fatigue as someone in the upthread pointed out, so I can see some value in it. But overall, all the safety tech are just gimmicks. I can pay cash for a couple of Tesla right now, but I don't see any value buying one.

It's a pitfall that people think they can fix problems by just throwing money at it. Take a step back and think about it with a clear mind. Sometimes the solution is not always throwing the money at the issue.
The most effective way to decrease your risk of getting seriously injured in a car accident is to drive less, and there are many other actions (and inactions) on that list before you get to "have the most advanced safety tech". IMO, people like to justify their new/expensive car purchases a lot with the "safety" statement, yet will partake in other actions that significantly increase risk in other ways. If OP wanted a new car or was concerned, they'd buy a new car.
Topic Author
investor_8675309
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:19 pm

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by investor_8675309 »

VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:28 am
chazas wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:59 am This descent into un-asked for “advice” about driving a new car is odd. People spend money on what they want to spend money on and save where it makes them feel good. I clip coupons and shop sales at the grocery store - people think I’m odd to do it but I don’t care.
Sometimes people don’t perceive risk appropriately and have blind spots (not just when driving a car which modern tech will alert you to!)

Part of what makes this forum great is the ability to get rational advice even in areas that might seem unsolicited. I stay away from some subjects because they are debatable but in this case a safe car built in 2021 outperforms a safe car built in 2005 or 1998 for some posters, in every imaginable category and in several that weren’t around 15-20 years ago.

OP is more worried about someone potentially breaking into his $40k car parked on the street then getting injured or killed in his 2005 car.... I view that as an issue you can replace a car not people.

The posters on here that that drive another season on bald tires to save $100 on a rebate at Costco are some of the same ones that would spend 2 hours chasing another $100 bonus on a credit offer. It makes no sense and some are completely blind to the unnecessary risks they take.

If my posts help on poster buy a new set of tires because oh yeah they did hydroplane a bit during last months storm.... or trade in that 22 year old car for a modern safer vehicle then I’ll feel better.

OP doesn’t need a $110k Tesla or a $250k Bentley but a $40k Hyundai or Honda or Toyota will do just fine.

Stop worrying about putting lumber into your new car and worry about the safety of the occupants!

This is like having life insurance but not disability insurance...
Look, I posted to get helpful feedback and you gave it. I appreciate you taking the time to do so. I might or might not agree but you gave me something to think about, which is the entire point of this forum. I already have an echo chamber between my ears and constructive criticism is helpful.

Again, thanks for taking the time.
Topic Author
investor_8675309
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:19 pm

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by investor_8675309 »

H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
Thanks. It really isn’t important to me. I am a pretty safe driver, I think. I actually come to a stop at stop signs. If the freeway has four lanes, I stay in the number 3 lane so there are two where faster drivers can pass me. But I really do not get that much pleasure from driving and don’t subscribe to “you are what you drive.”
Topic Author
investor_8675309
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:19 pm

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by investor_8675309 »

cshell2 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:16 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:45 am
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
Let it go already. Not everyone is that obsessed by a .000001% increase in safety, and if my car spent 90% of it's time parked on the street I wouldn't want it to be a new one either. My cars are 16 and 25 years old and as long as they do what I want from them I'm happy (start and run reliably 100% of the time). Unfortunately, one of them has been having issues and I'm not sure if I trust it outside of a 50 mile radius from home, so I've been shopping, but the thought of spending money on a new(er) vehicle makes me ill. To me, all the electronics in the new cars screams "expensive headaches" in the future not increased safety...although, I'll admit I'm looking forward to having a backup camera...that's about it though. The rest? Meh.
And let’s not forget the joy of car salesmen. This car is the first and only I ever bought new. It was when hybrids got you access to the carpool lane so prices weren’t really negotiable. Still it’s just unpleasant.
Silverado
Posts: 1650
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:07 pm

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by Silverado »

Devil's Advocate wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:14 am Yes

It seems to me whenever someone starts talking about new safety features it is just a rationalization to buy a new car, financial consequences be dammed.

DA
...and the subsequent page+ of refute posts sort of proves it in my view.

I like to count how long before the first 'buy a safer car, buy a new one' post comes after someone says they drive an old car.

I’d like to see those fancy features cause a lock out if used more than twice in one trip. Lane departure alarm twice in the last hour? Park it for a day. Driver alertness alarm? Park it for a week. Cell phone has an outgoing text or instagram in either direction? Park it for a month. Actually, make it not tied to the car, but to the operator.

Encourage better raw driving, not complacency. (Rant done...)

OP, enjoy your retirement! Do good things. Great job building a portfolio like that.
dboeger1
Posts: 1411
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:32 pm

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by dboeger1 »

I hate to harp on the car since that wasn't the main point of OP's post, but I think it's an important point so I'd like to offer my 2 cents. It doesn't make sense to estimate additional risk as a single percentage any more than it makes sense to estimate stock market risk by long-term return projections only. There's the likelihood of an accent, but then there's also the severity of an accident as a separate consideration.

When I bought my Chevy Volt some 7ish years ago, I remember asking why the sections to the sides of the front windshield were so thick. It was my first new car ever, and up until that point, I had mostly only ever been in my father's older cars growing up. The dealer explained it was because they needed to put airbags there to obtain the highest safety ratings. I didn't really like the loss of visibility, but I figured if that was a safety standard, it would be a reasonable compromise. I didn't even realize at the time that most new cars have them.

Years later, my wife and I were carpooling to work, and as she was driving through an intersection, a van coming from the right side ran their red light because the driver was on his phone. We slammed into each other front corner to front corner at about 40 mph each. Both cars were completely totaled. It felt like it happened so fast that it was all kind of a blank memory. Neither of us clearly remembered the impact. We got out of the car somewhat sore but feeling like we had not been injured. I don't even remember seeing or feeling the airbags deploy, but they clearly did because we saw them open after the crash. We were able to walk away like nothing happened, but over the course of the next couple of weeks, we kept discovering new injuries. We found bruises in places we didn't realize were hurt at first, and noticed new aches and pains when we would lay down in bed at night. We would be taking a shower or brushing our hair and discover a new scratch or bump. We eventually got better, but man, it's like that accident knocked the awareness out of us. We must have hit the air bags and other parts of the interior so fast that we didn't realize it or feel it in the moment. I bet we looked like a couple of crash test dummies.

When we went to buy a replacement car, we wouldn't accept anything less than a top safety rating. My wife said, "I just feel like our car worked so hard to save us. I'm glad whoever designed it did a good job." Now, I'm not saying an old car would have been any worse. I have no idea, and I don't intend to relive the accident to find out. However, I'd just like to challenge the notion that one particular type of accident is proof of the safety of old cars or that we can all just avoid accidents by driving safety. You never know when somebody on their phone is going to run a red light right into you at high speed, and presumably, at the very least, crash testing has gotten better over time, and I would assume the safety engineering and standards have as well. You can definitely count me in the camp that thinks it's silly to drive an old beater with $6m. I don't have $1m yet and I wouldn't do it after that accident we were in. I hope the next car I buy encases me in a marshmallow.
VGisforme
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by VGisforme »

H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:45 am
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:35 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am
Ok when it is a 25 kid with no savings That’s one thing.... this guy has $6 Million and drives a 16 year old car!

Penny wise pound foolish, carries all imaginable insurance but avoids spending 0.01 (or less) of portfolio on a safer car?!
lol people keep saying buying new car for a safer car. Just because your new car has Apple CarPlay or android auto, iPad size touch screen controller, and other gimmick techs, it doesn’t mean that new car is safer.

ESC, airbags, ABS tech are common a decade ago.

Buying new car is mostly for comfort and it’s a luxury.

The OP doesn’t drive much so that’s safer than any collision avoidance tech can provide. It also depends on how you drive. Have you ever seen teenagers drive aggressively on the road, just so that they can race to the stop light? I’ve been there, done that and I know no tech could compensate reckless driving.

Stop pushing OP for buying a new car. If he wants it, he can buy it without thinking twice. It’s just that a new car is not important to him.
No one is talking about Car Play.... ask a Lexus engineer how the 2005 RX330 stacks up to the current model.

If an under insured guy wants to buy insurance he can too but we’d all recommend they do it. We wouldn’t have people arguing that he has only a small chance to cash in on the insurance...

The fact that he drives less and drives “Safe” would be laughed at in terms of a discussion about insurance.

You can drive safe and get t-boned when that kid runs a red light.

People have all sorts of unsafe hobbies like motorcycles and Base jumping etc if that makes you happy and you know the risk go for it.... in OPs case he seems blinded to the risk and not a “car” guy.

I suppose if one derives a lot of pleasure and self satisfaction about driving a 16 or 22 year old car then by all means toss the safety argument aside but don’t pretend a safe car from 1998 or 2005 even approaches a safe car from 2021.
You'd have a great career as a car salesman, if you're not already one already.

Now, humor me. Which car should I buy to avoid getting t-boned by a red-light runner? It'd be great if you also have a youtube video demonstrate that feature. You'd blow my mind if you can show me a car that can jump 50 feet in the air, staying aloaft, and flying to a safe place. Too much sci-fi?

Meanwhile drivers will just do what they normally do. Be mindful of surrounding. Look both ways before accelerating at green light.

My 10 year old American made car is tough. It has been hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car in a parking lot. The Camry sustained heavy damage and had to be towed. The hit-and-run car left behind plenty of plastic and a front bumper. My car just had some scratches and some dents. My car doesn't have any safety tech. Just a reliable and powerful engine.

Note that I find all the new tech feature such as lane keep assist, blind spot detection, pedestrian detection, cross traffic alert, cruise control, automatic breaking are all gimmick. Maybe cruise control can help with driver fatigue as someone in the upthread pointed out, so I can see some value in it. But overall, all the safety tech are just gimmicks. I can pay cash for a couple of Tesla right now, but I don't see any value buying one.

It's a pitfall that people think they can fix problems by just throwing money at it. Take a step back and think about it with a clear mind. Sometimes the solution is not always throwing the money at the issue.
It is survival not avoidance.... in 2007 or 2009 they put in new side impact standards meaning manufacturers engineered better passenger protection in side impacts.

I drive a Dodge Charger they don’t come much bigger or more powerful, I don’t have all the tech package to include the auto braking and lane keeping etc.

My 2019 is much improved over the 2006 I had as it was built to a better standard.

If you think a 10, 15 or 20 year old car meets today’s standards you are wrong.

I don’t have $6 Million in the bank so I drove my used 2006 that I got in 2011 for 9 years now I will drive my used 2019 bought in 2020 for at least 9 more years. I don’t advocate for frequent new car purchases unless you really love cars and derive a lot of joy and can afford etc.
VGisforme
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by VGisforme »

investor_8675309 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:10 pm
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:28 am
chazas wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:59 am This descent into un-asked for “advice” about driving a new car is odd. People spend money on what they want to spend money on and save where it makes them feel good. I clip coupons and shop sales at the grocery store - people think I’m odd to do it but I don’t care.
Sometimes people don’t perceive risk appropriately and have blind spots (not just when driving a car which modern tech will alert you to!)

Part of what makes this forum great is the ability to get rational advice even in areas that might seem unsolicited. I stay away from some subjects because they are debatable but in this case a safe car built in 2021 outperforms a safe car built in 2005 or 1998 for some posters, in every imaginable category and in several that weren’t around 15-20 years ago.

OP is more worried about someone potentially breaking into his $40k car parked on the street then getting injured or killed in his 2005 car.... I view that as an issue you can replace a car not people.

The posters on here that that drive another season on bald tires to save $100 on a rebate at Costco are some of the same ones that would spend 2 hours chasing another $100 bonus on a credit offer. It makes no sense and some are completely blind to the unnecessary risks they take.

If my posts help on poster buy a new set of tires because oh yeah they did hydroplane a bit during last months storm.... or trade in that 22 year old car for a modern safer vehicle then I’ll feel better.

OP doesn’t need a $110k Tesla or a $250k Bentley but a $40k Hyundai or Honda or Toyota will do just fine.

Stop worrying about putting lumber into your new car and worry about the safety of the occupants!

This is like having life insurance but not disability insurance...
Look, I posted to get helpful feedback and you gave it. I appreciate you taking the time to do so. I might or might not agree but you gave me something to think about, which is the entire point of this forum. I already have an echo chamber between my ears and constructive criticism is helpful.

Again, thanks for taking the time.
I’m sorry they had to split this off I didn’t mean to derail things I’m glad you have an open mind on the subject.

Saying you are a safe driver is fine but I’d be worried about the rest of the world out on the road. It isn’t just the aggressive drivers who get into accidents. My dad used to joke about bad drivers bragging they never got into accidents while they certainly were causing crashes all around them.

I loathe the self driving auto pilot style features that coddle lazy drivers. What I do enjoy is strong acceleration, capable handling, strong brakes and a well maintained car.

I don’t sell cars but I am the guy that will leave a note on your car if I see you have a lug nut missing or your tire is flat or bald. I also put winter tires on my car (extra set of wheels for them). One of the advantages of keeping a car 8-10 years you will need new tires anyway so might as well spread it out over multiple sets!

I don’t sacrifice my retirement savings to eeek out a little more car safety or use safety as some excuse to indulge in a car habit. It surprises me how many folks on this board will have every financial angle covered but miss simple thing like this.
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Re: Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by nigel_ht »

The data seems pretty clear. As a whole newer cars are safer and by more than .00000001%.

“The overall driver death rate for all 2017 and equivalent models during 2015-18 was 36 deaths per million registered vehicle years. Seven models had driver death rates of zero. The highest death rate was 141 for the Ford Fiesta, a four-door minicar.”

“The overall driver death rate for all 2004 and equivalent models during 2002-05 was 79 deaths per million registered vehicle years. The Chevrolet Astro minivan had the lowest rate at 7. The 2-door two-wheel-drive Chevrolet Blazer SUV had the highest at 232.”

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-dea ... -and-model

How individual models change over time varies. The Accord looks about the same while the Camry went from 55 deaths to 34.

Seems like relatively cheap insurance for someone with $6M in assets to get a moderately priced 2021 with the latest in safety features. Especially as we get on in age and our reaction times begin to slow and we also suffer more injuries in crashes:

“Interestingly, older drivers are less involved in car-crashes than other motorists. People over the age of 65 make up 18.2% of the French population, but represent only 10.3% of traffic accident victims. Nevertheless, compared to younger drivers, the elderly suffer from more serious bodily injuries that are often fatal. This could be attributed to reduced sensorimotor abilities and more vulnerable bodies1.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4940374/

Also, I’m less inclined to trust a 15 year old airbag than a newer one.

https://www.motor1.com/news/94451/are-a ... time-bomb/

Spend your money the way you want but the data supports that newer cars ARE safer in general.

While there is less data available it seems logical that current models with the new electronic driving aids will more likely mitigate fatigue or reduced abilities as we age and the safety systems that are present hasn’t been baking in your car for over a decade.

I stick my wife in the new car and drive the older one. I’ve also noticed that I get tired more easily on long drives these days and driver fatigue is often a contributor to accidents.

A $40K car is 0.7% of your net worth and you don’t need to buy one every year. Every 5 years means that you’re spending 0.14% annually on vehicle replacement.

Eh. Push it to 10 years if you want but 15+ strikes me as a poor risk vs reward trade off at your level of NW.
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lthenderson
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Re: Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by lthenderson »

I usually go after the lowest hanging fruit.

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Jacotus
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Re: Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by Jacotus »

lthenderson wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:21 am I usually go after the lowest hanging fruit.
For someone who does not use drugs and exercises regularly, reducing the risk of car-related fatalities seems like the lowest hanging fruit there.
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eye.surgeon
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Re: Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by eye.surgeon »

It has always somewhat puzzled me that a forum that advocates strongly for disability and life insurance (which I strongly agree with) often also financially romanticizes driving very old cars. There is no question that even a cheap new car is significantly safer and more survivable than even a relatively new luxury car. Toyota for example offers their full safety suite on every car while the Germans nickle and dime you for safety features. . Automatic emergency braking alone would prevent many teen accidents.

I just bought a new 2021 Toyota RAV4 hybrid for my daughter to replace a 2012 Honda civic...it's like the two cars were made in difference centuries as far as active and passive safety is concerned.
"I would rather be certain of a good return than hopeful of a great one" | Warren Buffett
H-Town
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Re: Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by H-Town »

eye.surgeon wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:22 am It has always somewhat puzzled me that a forum that advocates strongly for disability and life insurance (which I strongly agree with) often also financially romanticizes driving very old cars. There is no question that even a cheap new car is significantly safer and more survivable than an old luxury car. In addition, the historical trend of luxury cars being safer than cheap cars has almost reversed itself, Toyota for example offers their full safety suite on every car while the Germans Nickle and dime you for safety features as extras, the opposite was true 25 years ago.

I just bought a new 2021 Toyota RAV4 hybrid for my daughter to replace a 2012 Honda civic...it's like the two cars were made in difference centuries as far as active and passive safety is concerned. This is especially critical for teen drivers, who are multiple times more likely to be involved in an accident and yet often get relegated to a relative relic of a car, "because they're going to crash it anyways" as though saving on a crash repair is preferable to surviving the crash.
If buying new car would solve the safety issue, we should buy new car. But is it the case though?

Toyota and Honda have been known to build flimsy car. Has it changed recently? In a 30-40 mph crash, your Japanese car may be totaled, while the other car may survive with dents. I know this first hand since my car was hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car. Maybe it's just anecdotal, but I've seen first hand. Living in a big city with 4+ million population, there's good chance that someone gonna bump into your car. So driving an older car has its perks. You don't care if those situations happen. Do you really want to deal with those small crashes with your fancy new car?

Now you mention surviving a crash. Those mostly related to head-on crash or high-speed crash. This is more on behavioral driving, and less on which car you drive. Unfortunately, buying a new 40k Camry won't solve behavioral driving issue for you. I have no idea that people would place such high value in several sensors, a few cameras, and several chips in a car. Computers could crash too, you know?
Time is the ultimate currency.
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Re: Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by nigel_ht »

H-Town wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:49 am
eye.surgeon wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:22 am It has always somewhat puzzled me that a forum that advocates strongly for disability and life insurance (which I strongly agree with) often also financially romanticizes driving very old cars. There is no question that even a cheap new car is significantly safer and more survivable than an old luxury car. In addition, the historical trend of luxury cars being safer than cheap cars has almost reversed itself, Toyota for example offers their full safety suite on every car while the Germans Nickle and dime you for safety features as extras, the opposite was true 25 years ago.

I just bought a new 2021 Toyota RAV4 hybrid for my daughter to replace a 2012 Honda civic...it's like the two cars were made in difference centuries as far as active and passive safety is concerned. This is especially critical for teen drivers, who are multiple times more likely to be involved in an accident and yet often get relegated to a relative relic of a car, "because they're going to crash it anyways" as though saving on a crash repair is preferable to surviving the crash.
If buying new car would solve the safety issue, we should buy new car. But is it the case though?

Toyota and Honda have been known to build flimsy car. Has it changed recently? In a 30-40 mph crash, your Japanese car may be totaled, while the other car may survive with dents. I know this first hand since my car was hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car. Maybe it's just anecdotal, but I've seen first hand. Living in a big city with 4+ million population, there's good chance that someone gonna bump into your car. So driving an older car has its perks. You don't care if those situations happen. Do you really want to deal with those small crashes with your fancy new car?

Now you mention surviving a crash. Those mostly related to head-on crash or high-speed crash. This is more on behavioral driving, and less on which car you drive. Unfortunately, buying a new 40k Camry won't solve behavioral driving issue for you. I have no idea that people would place such high value in several sensors, a few cameras, and several chips in a car. Computers could crash too, you know?
Honda and Toyota regularly rank high to highest in IIHS crash tests. So do Lexus and Acuras. Has been for like 20 years.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks

But hey, let's just ignore data and perpetuate ancient myths from the 80s that foreign cars are flimsy.

Oh and this is a 40MPH crash test in a F150 and other full and mid sized pickups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BcYtskkzFo

Looks pretty totaled to me. The objective IS to total the car rather than total you. So unless you're going to claim that the F150 is "flimsy" maybe you need to rethink how "flimsy" Japanese cars are.

What's interesting is at the 45 second mark how much better the 2016 F150 did in comparison to the 2015 F150. Ford upped their game in comparison to everyone else because the IIHS started testing small overlap on both driver and passenger sides. This is called progress and engineering. Perhaps you've heard of these terms.

2019 F150 did best in small overlap on the passenger side (8:50 mark) while Honda Ridgeline rated best overall (9:26 mark).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EibaKULr16o

Yes, 40 mph is more survivable than a 56mph crash but it's still non-trivial. The better designed cars won't have cabin penetration at 40mph. However a 40 mph crash is still the equivalent of a 56ft fall (6 stories give or take a few feet) worth of energy cars have to dissipate safely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWwGFDynOHo

So that 30-40 mph speed range is exactly where modern safety features are most effective in terms of eliminating serious injury. Above those speeds those systems still help a lot but the kinetic energy increases as the square of the speed. A car at 60 has 4 times the energy as a car moving at 30.

So yes, Virginia, cars are getting safer. In 2021 there were 90 vehicles that hit top safety pick while in 2020 there was on 64.

https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/choice ... ihs-awards.

If you think your vehicle will do better than a F150 in a 40MPH crash with another vehicle and only have "dents" its because your daily driver is a tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Pd_C_r1l4&t=7s

For everyone else, newer cars are safer than older ones.
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by nigel_ht »

H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm
My 10 year old American made car is tough. It has been hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car in a parking lot. The Camry sustained heavy damage and had to be towed.
Camrys are made in Georgetown, Kentucky. Any more bs you wish to propagate here?

In 2016 the Camry topped the list as American made.

"According to the National Highway and Transporation Safety Administration, the U.S.-sold domestic content for Camry is 75%. The Camry is assembled at Toyota's manufacturing plant in Georgetown, Ky., with parts from 270 U.S. supplier locations. The Georgetown facility is Toyota’s largest vehicle manufacturing plant in the world."

https://www.industryweek.com/the-econom ... e-car-list

They did change the rating system after 2016 because I guess it looked bad that none of the US companies ranked top 5.

For 2020 its Ford Ranger, Jeep Cherokee, Tesla Model S and 3 followed by Honda Odyssey, Ridgeline and Passport.

Amusingly:

"GM has six of the top 20 cars on the AMI, but its Buick division — a Detroit-area brand nearly 120 years old — imports three of its four SUVs from Asia. The Envision comes from China, while the Encore and Encore GX come from South Korea; all three have U.S. and Canadian parts content of less than 5%."

Tesla, Ford and Honda are the most American brands.

https://www.cars.com/articles/cars-com- ... rs-422712/
wander
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by wander »

nigel_ht wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:26 pm
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm
My 10 year old American made car is tough. It has been hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car in a parking lot. The Camry sustained heavy damage and had to be towed.
Camrys are made in Georgetown, Kentucky. Any more bs you wish to propagate here?

In 2016 the Camry topped the list as American made.

"According to the National Highway and Transporation Safety Administration, the U.S.-sold domestic content for Camry is 75%. The Camry is assembled at Toyota's manufacturing plant in Georgetown, Ky., with parts from 270 U.S. supplier locations. The Georgetown facility is Toyota’s largest vehicle manufacturing plant in the world."

https://www.industryweek.com/the-econom ... e-car-list

They did change the rating system after 2016 because I guess it looked bad that none of the US companies ranked top 5.

For 2020 its Ford Ranger, Jeep Cherokee, Tesla Model S and 3 followed by Honda Odyssey, Ridgeline and Passport.
I think data is just data. If my 25 year old car weight is 5000lb and yours is 2000lb, who do you think get more impact in an accident? Just because it's a new car, it doesn't make it more safe.
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by H-Town »

nigel_ht wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:26 pm
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm
My 10 year old American made car is tough. It has been hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car in a parking lot. The Camry sustained heavy damage and had to be towed.
Camrys are made in Georgetown, Kentucky. Any more bs you wish to propagate here?
I wished you can tell that to the owner of the Camry that got towed away. You know... just comfort him by showing your data that Camry is safe and awesome.
Time is the ultimate currency.
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by lazydavid »

wander wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:37 pm I think data is just data. If my 25 year old car weight is 5000lb and yours is 2000lb, who do you think get more impact in an accident? Just because it's a new car, it doesn't make it more safe.
And yet the driver death rate in cars 18+ years old is 71% higher than that of cars 0-3 years old. If you exclude unrestrained drivers--for which vehicle age made very little difference in the (dramatically higher) death rate--drivers of the older cars are 81% more likely to die.
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by JBTX »

lazydavid wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:04 pm
wander wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:37 pm I think data is just data. If my 25 year old car weight is 5000lb and yours is 2000lb, who do you think get more impact in an accident? Just because it's a new car, it doesn't make it more safe.
And yet the driver death rate in cars 18+ years old is 71% higher than that of cars 0-3 years old. If you exclude unrestrained drivers--for which vehicle age made very little difference in the (dramatically higher) death rate--drivers of the older cars are 81% more likely to die.
It would be helpful to know the difference in driver demographics to really be able to interpret those numbers.
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Kenkat
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Re: Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by Kenkat »

These discussions always come down to a judgement call around relative safety. For example, looking at the 2017 data, you are FIVE TIMES more likely to die in a BMW 3 Series (42 deaths out of a million miles driven) than a Honda Odyssey (8 deaths). Five times! Anyone driving a BMW 3 Series is making an irrational, reckless decision and should immediately trade it in for a Honda Odyssey. Cost should not be an issue. Desire to drive a specific type of vehicle should not be an issue. We must maximize safety.

Now a BMW 3 Series is a very safe car (the 2019 model is a top safety pick for 2019). Yes, in general, cars in 2017 are safer than 2004. No argument. But, like the BMW 3 vs. Odyssey, they are both very safe vehicles overall. So it becomes a choice of relative safety and each needs to make their own decisions.
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by nigel_ht »

wander wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:37 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:26 pm
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm
My 10 year old American made car is tough. It has been hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car in a parking lot. The Camry sustained heavy damage and had to be towed.
Camrys are made in Georgetown, Kentucky. Any more bs you wish to propagate here?

In 2016 the Camry topped the list as American made.

"According to the National Highway and Transporation Safety Administration, the U.S.-sold domestic content for Camry is 75%. The Camry is assembled at Toyota's manufacturing plant in Georgetown, Ky., with parts from 270 U.S. supplier locations. The Georgetown facility is Toyota’s largest vehicle manufacturing plant in the world."

https://www.industryweek.com/the-econom ... e-car-list

They did change the rating system after 2016 because I guess it looked bad that none of the US companies ranked top 5.

For 2020 its Ford Ranger, Jeep Cherokee, Tesla Model S and 3 followed by Honda Odyssey, Ridgeline and Passport.
I think data is just data. If my 25 year old car weight is 5000lb and yours is 2000lb, who do you think get more impact in an accident? Just because it's a new car, it doesn't make it more safe.
I'd rather crash in a 2016 F-150 than a 2015...and a 2021 vs a 2016.
wander
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Re: Can I stop working?

Post by wander »

lazydavid wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:04 pm
wander wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:37 pm I think data is just data. If my 25 year old car weight is 5000lb and yours is 2000lb, who do you think get more impact in an accident? Just because it's a new car, it doesn't make it more safe.
And yet the driver death rate in cars 18+ years old is 71% higher than that of cars 0-3 years old. If you exclude unrestrained drivers--for which vehicle age made very little difference in the (dramatically higher) death rate--drivers of the older cars are 81% more likely to die.
It depends on all kinds of factors. But, remember when you first learnt physic: m1v1 = m2v2. In case of head-on collision, the heavier car always has the advantage.
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Re: Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by iamlucky13 »

Weird thread. The OP asked for advice about retiring earlier than they previously planned, and started getting lectured about his car.

I think a newer car sounds like a great idea for the OP, but it really seems like they want to figure out their bigger financial picture before even thinking about the car.
eye.surgeon wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:22 amThere is no question that even a cheap new car is significantly safer and more survivable than even a relatively new luxury car.
If you look at IIHS vehicle fatality data, the rate for the newest cars they have data for (2017 MY) was 36 fatalities per million vehicle years. Looking at individual models, 20 of them have rates of 65 fatalities per million vehicle years or higher.

Go back a decade and it is modestly higher at 48 per fatalities per million vehicle years, with over 20 models having rates of 20 fatalities per million vehicle years or less.

In other words there is a lot of overlap in rates between newer and older cars. A brand new Kia Forte, for example, shows a higher fatality rate than a decade old Honda Civic. An old Acura MDX looks significantly safer by actual fatality numbers than a new Chevy Equinox.

On average, it's fairly clear that newer cars are safer, but it's not a radical difference, and the results are mixed by model.
Jacotus wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:02 am
lthenderson wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:21 am I usually go after the lowest hanging fruit.
For someone who does not use drugs and exercises regularly, reducing the risk of car-related fatalities seems like the lowest hanging fruit there.
That category can be broken down a lot further. Intoxication, speed, and seat belt use are the biggest contributors to car-related fatalities. Motorcycles also comprise a fairly significant number of the fatalities.

So specifically in the category of automobile injuries and fatalities, how you drive comprises multiple of the lowest hanging fruits.

Also, it should be kept in mind for this discussion that roughly half of automobile fatalities are single vehicle crashes, so the person behind the wheel is the overwhelming determinant of the outcome in those cases.

None of this, of course, invalidates the observation that newer vehicles are generally safer. My point is to keep the magnitudes in their proper scale when trying to quantify risk level.
Kenkat wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:43 pm These discussions always come down to a judgement call around relative safety. For example, looking at the 2017 data, you are FIVE TIMES more likely to die in a BMW 3 Series (42 deaths out of a million miles driven) than a Honda Odyssey (8 deaths). Five times!
....
Now a BMW 3 Series is a very safe car (the 2019 model is a top safety pick for 2019). Yes, in general, cars in 2017 are safer than 2004. No argument. But, like the BMW 3 vs. Odyssey, they are both very safe vehicles overall. So it becomes a choice of relative safety and each needs to make their own decisions.
Precisely.
jpelder
Posts: 1106
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:56 pm
Location: Concord, NC

Re: Can I stop working? [New car discussion]

Post by jpelder »

H-Town wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:49 am
eye.surgeon wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:22 am It has always somewhat puzzled me that a forum that advocates strongly for disability and life insurance (which I strongly agree with) often also financially romanticizes driving very old cars. There is no question that even a cheap new car is significantly safer and more survivable than an old luxury car. In addition, the historical trend of luxury cars being safer than cheap cars has almost reversed itself, Toyota for example offers their full safety suite on every car while the Germans Nickle and dime you for safety features as extras, the opposite was true 25 years ago.

I just bought a new 2021 Toyota RAV4 hybrid for my daughter to replace a 2012 Honda civic...it's like the two cars were made in difference centuries as far as active and passive safety is concerned. This is especially critical for teen drivers, who are multiple times more likely to be involved in an accident and yet often get relegated to a relative relic of a car, "because they're going to crash it anyways" as though saving on a crash repair is preferable to surviving the crash.
If buying new car would solve the safety issue, we should buy new car. But is it the case though?

Toyota and Honda have been known to build flimsy car. Has it changed recently? In a 30-40 mph crash, your Japanese car may be totaled, while the other car may survive with dents. I know this first hand since my car was hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car. Maybe it's just anecdotal, but I've seen first hand. Living in a big city with 4+ million population, there's good chance that someone gonna bump into your car. So driving an older car has its perks. You don't care if those situations happen. Do you really want to deal with those small crashes with your fancy new car?

Now you mention surviving a crash. Those mostly related to head-on crash or high-speed crash. This is more on behavioral driving, and less on which car you drive. Unfortunately, buying a new 40k Camry won't solve behavioral driving issue for you. I have no idea that people would place such high value in several sensors, a few cameras, and several chips in a car. Computers could crash too, you know?
You're making the false assumption that an undamaged car is the mark of a safe car. In general, it's the other way around, provided the passenger compartment is intact. Newer cars are designed to crumple around the edges to spread the force of an impact over a longer timespan. The humans are, in general, the most fragile components of a vehicle. It's not much use for your car to survive with a few dents if the driver and passengers inside are totaled. I'd much rather walk away from a totaled car.

It's true that most wrecks are caused by driver error. But being the safest driver in the world won't save you from the other guy being an idiot, from skidding on a patch of ice, or from a deer stepping out in front of you. It's then that the crumple zones, crash cage, airbags, and seatbelts come into play.
teCh0010
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:20 am

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by teCh0010 »

wander wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:37 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:26 pm
H-Town wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:16 pm
My 10 year old American made car is tough. It has been hit by a Camry and a hit-and-run car in a parking lot. The Camry sustained heavy damage and had to be towed.
Camrys are made in Georgetown, Kentucky. Any more bs you wish to propagate here?

In 2016 the Camry topped the list as American made.

"According to the National Highway and Transporation Safety Administration, the U.S.-sold domestic content for Camry is 75%. The Camry is assembled at Toyota's manufacturing plant in Georgetown, Ky., with parts from 270 U.S. supplier locations. The Georgetown facility is Toyota’s largest vehicle manufacturing plant in the world."

https://www.industryweek.com/the-econom ... e-car-list

They did change the rating system after 2016 because I guess it looked bad that none of the US companies ranked top 5.

For 2020 its Ford Ranger, Jeep Cherokee, Tesla Model S and 3 followed by Honda Odyssey, Ridgeline and Passport.
I think data is just data. If my 25 year old car weight is 5000lb and yours is 2000lb, who do you think get more impact in an accident? Just because it's a new car, it doesn't make it more safe.
Heavy steel vs modern crumple zones (as a 2009 the modern car is really a generation back from current standards).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck

The dummy in the heavy steel car with no crumple zones is toast.
JackoC
Posts: 4714
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Re: Can I stop working?

Post by JackoC »

Derpalator wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:46 am
VGisforme wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 am
investor_8675309 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:06 pm LBYM is so engrained in me. Depression era parents who did well but were never extravagant. Grandparents who retired early on pensions, but with little education - prison guard, toll booth collector. I’ve been a Boglehead for years, lurking even in the M* days.

Meanwhile my colleagues own second and third homes. Some own planes and yachts and multiple really expensive sports cars. None of that appeals to me.

I feel like a fish out of water sometimes - we are three drivers and the car is 16 years old and needs a cassette deck adapter to play music from the phone. Colleagues just don’t get that “drive it to the junkyard” mindset.

I’ve been incredibly fortunate but am realizing that I need to prioritize my happiness more than I have. Health - emotional and physical - as well.
That seems so penny wise and pound foolish to drive a 16 year old car.... even the safest car from 16 years ago isn’t on par with today’s tech and safety features. You don’t need a Bentley but please buy a new car.

What’s more likely some doomsday scenario where you end up eating dog food because your $6 Million evaporates or you get into a car accident?
I drive a 16 yr old Rx 330 and DW drives a 22 yr old Rx 300. I had a head on collision with a semi a decade or so ago (at relatively low speed) and while my car was totalled, I walked away shaken up with two small scratches, but no serious injuries. When GEICO gave me the check for another car, I bought the same model, saved 1000 dollars and the replacement car had 12,000 less miles on it! Still driving same car now with 245,000 miles. DW is at 305,000 miles.

Really, a quality car, even if older, can be safe, even compared to today's.
I agree. Ca. 2005 cheaper cars didn't have various safety features more expensive ones did and all do now, besides features (auto braking, blind spot warning) most new cars, cheap or expensive, have now. Our 2005 Lexus GX470 has ESC, side and top air bags, besides weighing 4900#. 60-0 braking distance is still about average for new cars now, handling is competent IMO. A new comparable vehicle would be an improvement in safety but not dramatic IMO.

Also mass and depth of crumple zones really do help, so even our 2018 BMW M2 is behind the Lexus in that respect being pretty small though heavy for its dimensions (~#3400), though it blows the Lexus away in stopping distance, emergency maneuver capability and acceleration (where that would get you out of the way), plus has newer gadgetry like auto-brake. The M2 may be the safer of the two in traffic where I drive both very conservatively, but perhaps it could be debated and the GX is not unsafe IMO. On remote winding roads I may drive the M2 through curves, though well within its high capabilities, at speed that wouldn't be safe in the Lexus, but I wouldn't drive the Lexus that fast on such curves.
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