Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

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ram
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Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by ram »

My 10 year old Reliance brand tanked natural gas water heater has a slow leak and I have decided to replace it. The current brand was what the prior owner had installed and I replaced it under warranty 10 yrs ago (paid plumber cost).

I am asking for recommendations for reliable brands. I am likely to live in this house for less than 10 to 12 years and would like this to be my last water heater. I am OK with higher cost. I am not interested in transitioning to a tankless system.

Our house size has gone down from 4 people to 2 people now. The current heater has a first hour capacity of 83 gallons and I estimate that at present our peak requirement is 60 gallons/hour.

I live in an area where winter temperatures are below 0 on many days.

There is a drain 3 feet away from the heater which is on a concrete floor in the basement. Six feet away is the finished portion of the basement. At present I do not have a drain pan or automatic shutoff valve (what brand) and would like to put at least one of them. Which is better. Or should I do both.

There is enough space even if the height or the diameter of the new heater is up to 30% more.

I will be using a plumber for the work. Should I order the heater or should I let him order. Thanks.
Ram
Normchad
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by Normchad »

Honestly, just find a plumber you like, and let them get it and install it.

There are several threads in here on water heaters.

I've owned them from 3 different brands, and every one of them has been completely fine. they all made it to 12 years with no issue.

I personally chose Bradford White. But like I say, they are all good. They are so simple.......

Best of luck with it!
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birdog
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by birdog »

My plumber said he installs Bradford White so that's what he installed for us. As long as your plumber carries a reputable line I wouldn't be concerned.
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msi
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by msi »

We also have Bradford White. No problems with it.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by livesoft »

Water heaters are a commodity and many brands are made by the same company. I don't think it matters what you get. While I didn't install ours, I can see how it would be a trivial DIY job if one had some muscle from kids, spouse, or neighbors. A friend of mine just installed her heater herself. Thus, I think just call 3 plumbers and get their estimates. Should take less than 10 minutes on the phone or less time than spent on this thread.
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Donethat96
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by Donethat96 »

You're overthinking this. What is important is whether your plumber will install a tank you buy and, if so, how it will effect his price. He may increase his labor cost to make up the markup he would put on a tank he sold. Also would he warrant the tank the way he would one he sold? I'd also be concerned about the pitch of your floor. It's vital that a water leak actually ends up in your drain. As others have said brand is a secondary concern. Water heaters are commodities and any given manufacturer will apply multiple brand names to the same tank.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by lazydavid »

Agree with others that brand doesn't matter. That said, within a brand, I do feel it's worthwhile to pay a little more for a higher-end unit. These will have features like faster recovery, brass drain valves (vs. nylon), a much larger anode rod or two rods instead of one, and a longer warranty. Mine are Rheem, so for me that meant buying the Platinum model. Other brands are going to have similar "levels".
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by neilpilot »

msi wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:25 am We also have Bradford White. No problems with it.
I had two 50g gas Bradford white tanks installed about ten years ago. About 5 years later, and within about 5 months of each other, each of their Honeywell ignition systems failed. I've later learned that this has been a widespread problem. Hopefully it's been addressed by now.
lostdog
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by lostdog »

When we owned a home, the plumber installed Bradford White. No problems at all.
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squirm
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by squirm »

Why not just go with price? I seriously doubt any anecdotal opinion her would be considered reliable. Buy a higher end wh based on price and hope for the best.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by Big Dog »

lazydavid wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:19 am Agree with others that brand doesn't matter. That said, within a brand, I do feel it's worthwhile to pay a little more for a higher-end unit. These will have features like faster recovery, brass drain valves (vs. nylon), a much larger anode rod or two rods instead of one, and a longer warranty. Mine are Rheem, so for me that meant buying the Platinum model. Other brands are going to have similar "levels".
Agree with springing for the brass fittings (as opposed to plastic). We currently have an American Standard going on 20 years. In the garage, so no plans to swap it out until it breaks.
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ram
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by ram »

Thanks everybody. Will let the plumber pick the brand but will go with the higher level model.
Ram
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by SrGrumpy »

birdog wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:20 am My plumber said he installs Bradford White so that's what he installed for us. As long as your plumber carries a reputable line I wouldn't be concerned.
Isn't it a bit weird that every plumber seems to endorse Bradford & White, a product that is practically impossible to see in store - and good luck finding out the pricing. Do they get some sort of, ahem, incentive? And sure this is what they have at home - because it's free?

Nothing against B&W, btw.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by illumination »

SrGrumpy wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:46 pm
birdog wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:20 am My plumber said he installs Bradford White so that's what he installed for us. As long as your plumber carries a reputable line I wouldn't be concerned.
Isn't it a bit weird that every plumber seems to endorse Bradford & White, a product that is practically impossible to see in store - and good luck finding out the pricing. Do they get some sort of, ahem, incentive? And sure this is what they have at home - because it's free?

Nothing against B&W, btw.
Probably a fair criticism, they don't want a product that they have to compete with Home Depot type places and want to make a little profit on the unit itself. They also want something reliable if they are the hook for warranty support. The general public though can buy them though at plumbing supply houses, but they aren't sold in big box stores. Probably about 40% more expensive than say an entry level Rheem.

But most plumbers will put in whatever you want them to, if you want to buy a water heater at Home Depot and have them install, most places will do it. You just won't get any sort of support afterwards.

I just had a Bradford White installed by my plumber, I do think it's higher quality than what you get at Home Depot and am willing to pay a few hundred extra. Also nice it's made in the USA. My plumber put brass fittings on it for like the drain, etc. Probably cost me $250 for them to handle everything as opposed to me doing it.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by birdog »

SrGrumpy wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:46 pm
birdog wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:20 am My plumber said he installs Bradford White so that's what he installed for us. As long as your plumber carries a reputable line I wouldn't be concerned.
Isn't it a bit weird that every plumber seems to endorse Bradford & White, a product that is practically impossible to see in store - and good luck finding out the pricing. Do they get some sort of, ahem, incentive? And sure this is what they have at home - because it's free?

Nothing against B&W, btw.
I just assume there is an incentive but I also think plumbers wouldn't install inferior products either.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by Californiastate »

1rl9DS5gl2 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:52 am You're overthinking this. What is important is whether your plumber will install a tank you buy and, if so, how it will effect his price. He may increase his labor cost to make up the markup he would put on a tank he sold. Also would he warrant the tank the way he would one he sold? I'd also be concerned about the pitch of your floor. It's vital that a water leak actually ends up in your drain. As others have said brand is a secondary concern. Water heaters are commodities and any given manufacturer will apply multiple brand names to the same tank.
You buy it and save money but own the warranty for the unit. The plumber supplies it and he’s on the hook for 1 year or your state’s limits. The plumber isn’t in the business to feel good. He’s there to make a living.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by SrGrumpy »

illumination wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:22 pm I just had a Bradford White installed by my plumber, I do think it's higher quality than what you get at Home Depot and am willing to pay a few hundred extra. Also nice it's made in the USA. My plumber put brass fittings on it for like the drain, etc. Probably cost me $250 for them to handle everything as opposed to me doing it.
Which B&W model and how much, if you don't mind my asking. I have no idea if the models I'm looking at online at $500 or $5000.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by illumination »

SrGrumpy wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:14 pm
illumination wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:22 pm I just had a Bradford White installed by my plumber, I do think it's higher quality than what you get at Home Depot and am willing to pay a few hundred extra. Also nice it's made in the USA. My plumber put brass fittings on it for like the drain, etc. Probably cost me $250 for them to handle everything as opposed to me doing it.
Which B&W model and how much, if you don't mind my asking. I have no idea if the models I'm looking at online at $500 or $5000.
It was a 50 gallon Bradford White 40k BTU Defender, natural gas
RG250T6N

Out the door installed with new supply lines, venting and a brass drain ball valve (and the old one hauled away) it was $1050. I see the model go at supply houses for under $700. I felt it was fair, it took 2 guys around a 1 hour to install. Not a hard job by any means.

FWIW, my daughters can both shower in their respective bathrooms at the same time and have the dishwasher running and there's plenty of hot water for them. Old model had trouble keeping up. I wanted to "upsize" but a bigger model wouldn't fit. They also make a 50 gallon with a higher BTU, but this was plenty sufficient.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by SrGrumpy »

illumination wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:50 am
SrGrumpy wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:14 pm
illumination wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:22 pm I just had a Bradford White installed by my plumber, I do think it's higher quality than what you get at Home Depot and am willing to pay a few hundred extra. Also nice it's made in the USA. My plumber put brass fittings on it for like the drain, etc. Probably cost me $250 for them to handle everything as opposed to me doing it.
Which B&W model and how much, if you don't mind my asking. I have no idea if the models I'm looking at online at $500 or $5000.
It was a 50 gallon Bradford White 40k BTU Defender, natural gas
RG250T6N

Out the door installed with new supply lines, venting and a brass drain ball valve (and the old one hauled away) it was $1050. I see the model go at supply houses for under $700. I felt it was fair, it took 2 guys around a 1 hour to install. Not a hard job by any means.

FWIW, my daughters can both shower in their respective bathrooms at the same time and have the dishwasher running and there's plenty of hot water for them. Old model had trouble keeping up. I wanted to "upsize" but a bigger model wouldn't fit. They also make a 50 gallon with a higher BTU, but this was plenty sufficient.
Ahh, very interesting, thanks. The URG version (Ultra low-NOx - the only allowable option in SoCal) sells for $855 + 10%-odd tax at a supply house in the county. I'm looking at the 40 gallon version - for about $780 + tax. I estimate my plumber is adding a similar $300-$400 for his services.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by illumination »

SrGrumpy wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:13 pm
illumination wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:50 am
SrGrumpy wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:14 pm
illumination wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:22 pm I just had a Bradford White installed by my plumber, I do think it's higher quality than what you get at Home Depot and am willing to pay a few hundred extra. Also nice it's made in the USA. My plumber put brass fittings on it for like the drain, etc. Probably cost me $250 for them to handle everything as opposed to me doing it.
Which B&W model and how much, if you don't mind my asking. I have no idea if the models I'm looking at online at $500 or $5000.
It was a 50 gallon Bradford White 40k BTU Defender, natural gas
RG250T6N

Out the door installed with new supply lines, venting and a brass drain ball valve (and the old one hauled away) it was $1050. I see the model go at supply houses for under $700. I felt it was fair, it took 2 guys around a 1 hour to install. Not a hard job by any means.

FWIW, my daughters can both shower in their respective bathrooms at the same time and have the dishwasher running and there's plenty of hot water for them. Old model had trouble keeping up. I wanted to "upsize" but a bigger model wouldn't fit. They also make a 50 gallon with a higher BTU, but this was plenty sufficient.
Ahh, very interesting, thanks. The URG version (Ultra low-NOx - the only allowable option in SoCal) sells for $855 + 10%-odd tax at a supply house in the county. I'm looking at the 40 gallon version - for about $780 + tax. I estimate my plumber is adding a similar $300-$400 for his services.
I'm glad my state doesn't have those restrictions, I know some require an electric fan to aid them. I wouldn't want that noise or the additional power consumption.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by EZ James »

Your local code may require seismic restraints and possibly a thermal expansion tank. Best to check with the building safety people before getting estimates.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by neilpilot »

illumination wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:57 pm
SrGrumpy wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:13 pm
illumination wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:50 am


It was a 50 gallon Bradford White 40k BTU Defender, natural gas
RG250T6N

Out the door installed with new supply lines, venting and a brass drain ball valve (and the old one hauled away) it was $1050. I see the model go at supply houses for under $700. I felt it was fair, it took 2 guys around a 1 hour to install. Not a hard job by any means.

FWIW, my daughters can both shower in their respective bathrooms at the same time and have the dishwasher running and there's plenty of hot water for them. Old model had trouble keeping up. I wanted to "upsize" but a bigger model wouldn't fit. They also make a 50 gallon with a higher BTU, but this was plenty sufficient.
Ahh, very interesting, thanks. The URG version (Ultra low-NOx - the only allowable option in SoCal) sells for $855 + 10%-odd tax at a supply house in the county. I'm looking at the 40 gallon version - for about $780 + tax. I estimate my plumber is adding a similar $300-$400 for his services.
I'm glad my state doesn't have those restrictions, I know some require an electric fan to aid them. I wouldn't want that noise or the additional power consumption.
Also, the model with the fan goes down in a power outage unless you apply backup electricity. My BW Defenders don’t connect to the electric grid and continue to operate normally during a blackout.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by ncbill »

Yes, anything that uses a standing pilot with natural draft...no on-demand ignition that requires electricity, no powered vent.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by hand »

SrGrumpy wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:46 pm
birdog wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:20 am My plumber said he installs Bradford White so that's what he installed for us. As long as your plumber carries a reputable line I wouldn't be concerned.
Isn't it a bit weird that every plumber seems to endorse Bradford & White, a product that is practically impossible to see in store - and good luck finding out the pricing. Do they get some sort of, ahem, incentive? And sure this is what they have at home - because it's free?

Nothing against B&W, btw.
I installed a Bradford White at my plumber's suggestion - only to find out after the fact that anode rod placement seems intentionally designed to make it more difficult to DIY and to increase service calls. Never again.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

Will a plumber charge you pick up the waterheater and supplies you purchased from a "big box" store?

Or is it assumed all the necessary parts will be on site when the plumber gets there?

(I had family members do my water heater replacement - I drained the water heater before they arrived, the second thing we did (after some final measuring, list o' stuff we might need, and review of the plan) was to head over to the HomeDepot to buy the water heater that had been picked out. The water heater fit in my vehicle.

We did the waterheater the day before "trash pick up day". the old waterheater got hauled out to the alley (and was gone within an hour - the Scrap Metal Man can and took it).

A DIY waterheater replacement might entail extra costs to get the new waterheater delivered (if you don't have vehicle that can hold it) AND you may have to pay to have the old waterheater picked up with the trash. the Scrap Metal Man is "overlooked" by the City - what he's doing is 'illegal' in my area. The metal scavengers go down the alley - usually the day before "trash day".
SrGrumpy
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by SrGrumpy »

hand wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:36 am
SrGrumpy wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:46 pm
birdog wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:20 am My plumber said he installs Bradford White so that's what he installed for us. As long as your plumber carries a reputable line I wouldn't be concerned.
Isn't it a bit weird that every plumber seems to endorse Bradford & White, a product that is practically impossible to see in store - and good luck finding out the pricing. Do they get some sort of, ahem, incentive? And sure this is what they have at home - because it's free?

Nothing against B&W, btw.
I installed a Bradford White at my plumber's suggestion - only to find out after the fact that anode rod placement seems intentionally designed to make it more difficult to DIY and to increase service calls. Never again.
People mentioned that on YouTube reviews, but the conclusions were mixed.
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Re: Natural gas, tank water heater. Which brand?

Post by lazydavid »

hand wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:36 am I installed a Bradford White at my plumber's suggestion - only to find out after the fact that anode rod placement seems intentionally designed to make it more difficult to DIY and to increase service calls. Never again.
Even if the rod is not built into the water fitting as BW does, replacement may be difficult or impossible. On my brand-new Rheem, I wanted to "break" the threads on its anode when I took it out of the box, to make it easier to replace later. Neither I nor my plumber was able to dislodge it using a socket and breaker bar. Same story with the 6-year old unit that I had actually purchased a replacement rod for. Perhaps I could have spun it off with my impact gun. Or perhaps I would destroy the tank in the attempt. Plumber told me it probably wasn't worth the risk.
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