Buying new car, need some advice
Buying new car, need some advice
So I'm in the market for a new Chrysler Pacifica. I haven't bought a new vehicle in over a decade and for some reason it seems like based on my recollection certain information seems harder to get than it once was. I intend to just negotiate the whole deal over email and then just go in to pay and take delivery. Unfortunately, I'm stumbling right out of the gate. Here are my problems.
1. How do I find out the invoice price? I went on Edmunds, but for the Pacifica, even the MSRPs are slightly different for the base price and various options. So if Edmunds doesn't have accurate MSRP info, how can I know that it will have accurate invoice price info. Furthermore, it looks like Edmunds just give an estimated invoice price. What I would like is a broken down invoice price for base model and each option. I also tried True Car and I couldn't even get an estimated invoice price there. I found that site harder to navigate. Last time I went through this process, it seemed a whole lot easier to find this info. Maybe I'm just worse at finding things these days.
2. Any idea how I can figure out dealer holdback (i.e. NOT customer incentives). I assume that's harder, but is there a way to get reliable info?
1. How do I find out the invoice price? I went on Edmunds, but for the Pacifica, even the MSRPs are slightly different for the base price and various options. So if Edmunds doesn't have accurate MSRP info, how can I know that it will have accurate invoice price info. Furthermore, it looks like Edmunds just give an estimated invoice price. What I would like is a broken down invoice price for base model and each option. I also tried True Car and I couldn't even get an estimated invoice price there. I found that site harder to navigate. Last time I went through this process, it seemed a whole lot easier to find this info. Maybe I'm just worse at finding things these days.
2. Any idea how I can figure out dealer holdback (i.e. NOT customer incentives). I assume that's harder, but is there a way to get reliable info?
- sunny_socal
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- Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:22 pm
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
IMO that stuff doesn't really matter. Yes, they exist, but in the end you'll pay the market price depending on supply/demand for your vehicle.
- Indeed, shop via the internet
- DO NOT be suckered into "visiting the dealer" in order to get a bottom-line price. Insist on a quote via email.
- Don't forget the Costco auto buying program
- Indeed, shop via the internet
- DO NOT be suckered into "visiting the dealer" in order to get a bottom-line price. Insist on a quote via email.
- Don't forget the Costco auto buying program
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Invoice price, holdback and other figures mean nothing. The only thing you're interested in is the OTD, out the door price.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Funny enough. Family and I are on vacation currently and our rental car happens to be a 2021 Chrysler Pacifica. It is very nice. My wife has been talking about how much she loves it every time we get in. Enjoy!
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
nadaguides.com has info on invoice pricing.
Here it is for the 2021 Chrysler Pacifica. You will have to pick trim, options, and enter zip code. It will give info on invoice price on the car, options and destination charge.
https://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2021/Ch ... tegory=Van
Here it is for the 2021 Chrysler Pacifica. You will have to pick trim, options, and enter zip code. It will give info on invoice price on the car, options and destination charge.
https://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2021/Ch ... tegory=Van
- lthenderson
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
It has been awhile. You can't get that information as the whole payment of dealers has changed. Not only are their holdbacks, but their are levels of sales discounts, and bonuses so the car that is sold at the end of the month/year can be sold cheaper (and the dealer still profits) that the first car of the month/year. In short, manufacturers and dealers really don't know the exact cost until after the month/year has ended and everything is tallied up.
There are numerous aggregate sites now that will show you the average price paid for a particular vehicle in your neighborhood displayed in a nice bell curve. You can bet that the lowest price is probably pretty close to what you would consider the "invoice" price of years gone by.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
I like Consumer Reports.
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Do you have that information for other items you buy? Let's say you find out definitively that the net cost to dealers is $35000, and after your bidding process nobody will sell for less than $45,000. Now what?asdfgf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:32 am So I'm in the market for a new Chrysler Pacifica. I haven't bought a new vehicle in over a decade and for some reason it seems like based on my recollection certain information seems harder to get than it once was. I intend to just negotiate the whole deal over email and then just go in to pay and take delivery. Unfortunately, I'm stumbling right out of the gate. Here are my problems.
1. How do I find out the invoice price? I went on Edmunds, but for the Pacifica, even the MSRPs are slightly different for the base price and various options. So if Edmunds doesn't have accurate MSRP info, how can I know that it will have accurate invoice price info. Furthermore, it looks like Edmunds just give an estimated invoice price. What I would like is a broken down invoice price for base model and each option. I also tried True Car and I couldn't even get an estimated invoice price there. I found that site harder to navigate. Last time I went through this process, it seemed a whole lot easier to find this info. Maybe I'm just worse at finding things these days.
2. Any idea how I can figure out dealer holdback (i.e. NOT customer incentives). I assume that's harder, but is there a way to get reliable info?
- SmallCityDave
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
First and foremost Chrysler Pacifica..... secondly who cares what they pay and their holdbacks people that worry about that type of stuff just drive me crazy. If they paid $45k and you get it for 44 will that make you feel better than them paying 40 and you paying 43?
Worry about you and finding a realistic number that works for buyer and seller, find forums and see what other buyers have paid with the options that you are looking for. Call the dealer and speak to a person remember their name get the OTD price DO NOT just email them, I'm in sales (not cars) and most people that email that's all they do they don't buy they just keep emailing and ask dumb questions and take up a bunch of time.
I assume you've already test driven the van and driving to 10 different dealers won't help you any, once you've figured out a realistic number start calling dealers you will see a big difference from dealer to dealer. When you find the dealer that's close to your number tell them where you need to be and make it work.
When I did this I wasn't in a hurry and it took a month but I found a dealer that was about $2000 under everyone else, they were 80 miles away and they delivered. It was a bit of a painful process but I did it on my schedule and budget.
Lastly look a a Sienna or Odyssey.
Worry about you and finding a realistic number that works for buyer and seller, find forums and see what other buyers have paid with the options that you are looking for. Call the dealer and speak to a person remember their name get the OTD price DO NOT just email them, I'm in sales (not cars) and most people that email that's all they do they don't buy they just keep emailing and ask dumb questions and take up a bunch of time.
I assume you've already test driven the van and driving to 10 different dealers won't help you any, once you've figured out a realistic number start calling dealers you will see a big difference from dealer to dealer. When you find the dealer that's close to your number tell them where you need to be and make it work.
When I did this I wasn't in a hurry and it took a month but I found a dealer that was about $2000 under everyone else, they were 80 miles away and they delivered. It was a bit of a painful process but I did it on my schedule and budget.
Lastly look a a Sienna or Odyssey.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
I agree. I'm not the best negotiator and had to buy a car "semi-quickly" after a car was totaled (got rear ended very hard) and the insurance would only pay for a rental for a short period of time and I had already scheduled an out of town vacation (back in 2018).
I ended up sending emails to a number of dealers. Some would give me prices, some were more annoying. Fortunately I used a different email address because I was getting emails nearly a year later.
Anyhow I said I simply wanted an out the door price. I made sure it was clear that any additions to that price would cause me to walk out and not buy the car. One dealer came close to my price and I was in and out of the dealership within 30 minutes with no attempt to sell me anything else. Would have been a bit sooner but they were just finishing up washing the car.
I understand people wanting to get the best possible price and some obsess over it but depending on the dealer, the time frame, etc. prices will vary.
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Most dealerships these days don't make money on the cars themselves, they make them on the options, financing and especially in the service center. As such they're more interested in selling as many cars as possible, instead of making the most on each car sold. So the typical negotiation process isn't the same as it may have been in the past at may places.
If you want to save money on a vehicle, don't add options you don't need/want, don't do financing (unless there's incentives) and don't use the dealers service center. Saving a thousand dollars on the car isn't going to mean much if you get crappy financing or if you use their service department that costs 20% more than everywhere else (BTW, there's a reason a lot of dealerships give "free oil changes" with new cars. It gets you into the habit of using their service center).
If you want to save money on a vehicle, don't add options you don't need/want, don't do financing (unless there's incentives) and don't use the dealers service center. Saving a thousand dollars on the car isn't going to mean much if you get crappy financing or if you use their service department that costs 20% more than everywhere else (BTW, there's a reason a lot of dealerships give "free oil changes" with new cars. It gets you into the habit of using their service center).
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Invoice price doesn't matter. MSRP doesn't matter. It's the price you agree to including all fees and charges that matters. Dealers WILL give you this over email. Be sure to ask for the price with all fees included. These days, dealers have a true invoice that they pay for the car, yet they easily give you a price under invoice. Why? First, they have a doc fee. What does a doc fee cover? Profit. It is NOT a fee to fill out the title or do paperwork or do any other documents. It is only PROFIT. That's fine since that's now the dealer model.
Your best bet is to know exactly what you want, find it in dealer inventory at many dealers and ask for the price of the car INCLUDING ALL FEES for stock #xyz1234. There is no trade (even if there is). When you get pricing at several dealers, go to the dealer most convenient to you and give them the lowest price INCLUDING ALL FEES and tell them that if they can match that, you'll be there in 2 hours with a deposit and to sign papers. This can also work if you decide to order exactly what you want (I've done it with several vehicles from different manufacturers). Realize that if there's a factory incentive or rebate on in stock units, you won't get that on an order in many cases. You may be able to get subsidized financing if the time frame meets either your order or delivery (depends on the terms of the incentives).
Remember also that if you're looking for a very high demand vehicle, you are not going to get a good deal. For example, go into a Ford dealer and demand it at invoice and watch all the sales people, managers and other customers drop what they're doing and laugh for 7 minutes. Ain't gonna happen. Try it with a Fusion and you'll get laughing because they're ready to give you the car for a couple grand under invoice because it's a car that's not selling.
Good luck.
Your best bet is to know exactly what you want, find it in dealer inventory at many dealers and ask for the price of the car INCLUDING ALL FEES for stock #xyz1234. There is no trade (even if there is). When you get pricing at several dealers, go to the dealer most convenient to you and give them the lowest price INCLUDING ALL FEES and tell them that if they can match that, you'll be there in 2 hours with a deposit and to sign papers. This can also work if you decide to order exactly what you want (I've done it with several vehicles from different manufacturers). Realize that if there's a factory incentive or rebate on in stock units, you won't get that on an order in many cases. You may be able to get subsidized financing if the time frame meets either your order or delivery (depends on the terms of the incentives).
Remember also that if you're looking for a very high demand vehicle, you are not going to get a good deal. For example, go into a Ford dealer and demand it at invoice and watch all the sales people, managers and other customers drop what they're doing and laugh for 7 minutes. Ain't gonna happen. Try it with a Fusion and you'll get laughing because they're ready to give you the car for a couple grand under invoice because it's a car that's not selling.
Good luck.
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
I was after a vehicle with particular options. I found that it worked to briefly visit the dealer and then conduct the rest of the negotiation by email and phone. The fact that we were in the middle of the coronavirus thing helped, I think, as they are not expecting people to spend time in the dealership.
This may be dealer/ make dependent, but a brief in person (and, umm, socially distanced) contact persuades a dealer that you are serious. What I read is that the response to an email blast can be tepid.
This may be dealer/ make dependent, but a brief in person (and, umm, socially distanced) contact persuades a dealer that you are serious. What I read is that the response to an email blast can be tepid.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Generally Costco will get you a decent, but not great, price. In my shopping experience, I always got dealer below the Costco price, and by a significant margin. Of course it's more hassle-free with Costco, but it's not that much work emailing with dealers to see who has the lowest out-the-door price, and getting them to beat other quotes. Agree that you don't want to visit the dealer at all. (For the test drive, I go to the nearest dealer. Then when I get the quotes, I give that dealer the right of last refusal, they just have to match the best price to get the deal.)
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
I agree with others that "invoice price" and such is less than useless.
If you are shopping for a car that is in demand, you could go to 10 dealers and ask them to give you the car for invoice price and they will laugh in your face because they know that they can sell it for more than what you are offering. In this case, you need to offer more if you want the car.
On the other hand, if you are shopping for a car that is not in demand, a dealer might LOVE to unload a car at invoice price that they can't otherwise get off of their lot. In this case, you could have paid less.
The only way to guarantee that you are getting the best price is to exercise pure capitalistic competition by asking for quotes from multiple dealerships and buying from the one that gives you the best price.
This is exactly how people shop for the best deal on pretty much every other consumer product. They look at the price on Amazon, Walmart, Target, etc and they buy it at the one that is the cheapest.
Yes, I understand that car pricing is a little more opaque, but the same concept applies to buying cars as it does to anything else. You don't look up the invoice price on, say, paper towels and only buy them if the seller is offering them at or below that price. Car buying is really the only item where people seem to care about what the wholesale price of the item is in order to determine whether it is a good deal.
And if you don't want to go through the hassle then there are car buying services of various types (Costco, Consumer Reports, etc). Personally, I'd go that route just to simplify my life even if I don't get the rock bottom price that way.
If you are shopping for a car that is in demand, you could go to 10 dealers and ask them to give you the car for invoice price and they will laugh in your face because they know that they can sell it for more than what you are offering. In this case, you need to offer more if you want the car.
On the other hand, if you are shopping for a car that is not in demand, a dealer might LOVE to unload a car at invoice price that they can't otherwise get off of their lot. In this case, you could have paid less.
The only way to guarantee that you are getting the best price is to exercise pure capitalistic competition by asking for quotes from multiple dealerships and buying from the one that gives you the best price.
This is exactly how people shop for the best deal on pretty much every other consumer product. They look at the price on Amazon, Walmart, Target, etc and they buy it at the one that is the cheapest.
Yes, I understand that car pricing is a little more opaque, but the same concept applies to buying cars as it does to anything else. You don't look up the invoice price on, say, paper towels and only buy them if the seller is offering them at or below that price. Car buying is really the only item where people seem to care about what the wholesale price of the item is in order to determine whether it is a good deal.
And if you don't want to go through the hassle then there are car buying services of various types (Costco, Consumer Reports, etc). Personally, I'd go that route just to simplify my life even if I don't get the rock bottom price that way.
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Add me as a +1 on the Costco route. I've tried to follow all the practical advice (ie. shopping on the internet, pitting one dealership against the other, etc.) and have been extraordinarily disappointed by results. It was clear, in my most recent car purchase, that desirable brands like Honda and Subaru were quite unwilling to budge too far from the invoice and their only flexibility were the manufacturer incentives. Meanwhile, in a bit of serendipitous anecdotal comparison, my neighbor at nearly the same time purchased from the same dealership, but used Costco, and netted virtually the exact same discount. My nearly month-long campaign to extract some extra value by really working at it was, in hindsight, a fool's errand.
Now, with that said, there are clearly times when the buyer has some increased leverage, such as when the next year's models are released and at the end of the month when dealerships look to maximize manufacturer quotas.
Now, with that said, there are clearly times when the buyer has some increased leverage, such as when the next year's models are released and at the end of the month when dealerships look to maximize manufacturer quotas.
- Taylor Larimore
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
asdfgf:asdfgf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:32 am So I'm in the market for a new Chrysler Pacifica. I haven't bought a new vehicle in over a decade and for some reason it seems like based on my recollection certain information seems harder to get than it once was. I intend to just negotiate the whole deal over email and then just go in to pay and take delivery. Unfortunately, I'm stumbling right out of the gate. Here are my problems.
1. How do I find out the invoice price? I went on Edmunds, but for the Pacifica, even the MSRPs are slightly different for the base price and various options. So if Edmunds doesn't have accurate MSRP info, how can I know that it will have accurate invoice price info. Furthermore, it looks like Edmunds just give an estimated invoice price. What I would like is a broken down invoice price for base model and each option. I also tried True Car and I couldn't even get an estimated invoice price there. I found that site harder to navigate. Last time I went through this process, it seemed a whole lot easier to find this info. Maybe I'm just worse at finding things these days.
2. Any idea how I can figure out dealer holdback (i.e. NOT customer incentives). I assume that's harder, but is there a way to get reliable info?
I am unable to answer your questions, but I just received Consumer Reports Annual Car Issue. The Chrysler Pacifica automobile (both gasoline and electric) receive a very good rating!!
Best wishes.
Taylor
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
I have never had much luck with getting online quotes from dealers. Most of the ones I have tried want you to come to the dealership for their "best price". What has worked for me is to research what car I want including options and get pricing, MSRP/invoice/etc. I have found that Cargurus gives pretty good estimates of dealer pricing, better than NADA, Edmunds, etc. I then test drive the cars. I know some dealers in our market are more aggressive with pricing than others. I choose one of those dealers and go there and test drive the car. They provide a price and we negotiate. They will ask if I am ready to buy today and I say yes but not at the price you are asking. I get their alleged best price and say that is too much and start to walk out the door. The act of walking out the door is a powerful incentive for the dealer to give me their best price. They will ask what will you pay and I counter with what I am willing to pay. If my offer is too low they will not deal but if it is within a range of their offer we can usually make a deal. This process does not always work and if it does not, it is usually because the sales person is not very competent, and I am off to another dealer.
I do not need to get the last dollar out of a sale but I want a good price and this seems to work for me.
My wife and I used to car shop together, but I eventually realized they would read her to figure out how to sell to us. In fact, they would start asking her questions and ignoring me. They figured if they could sell her they had a much stronger hand in negotiations. She now is involved in the selection of the type of cars, options, etc. We jointly agree on what to buy. But she stays home when I do the final negotiations. I left a lot of money on the table before I figured that out.
I do not need to get the last dollar out of a sale but I want a good price and this seems to work for me.
My wife and I used to car shop together, but I eventually realized they would read her to figure out how to sell to us. In fact, they would start asking her questions and ignoring me. They figured if they could sell her they had a much stronger hand in negotiations. She now is involved in the selection of the type of cars, options, etc. We jointly agree on what to buy. But she stays home when I do the final negotiations. I left a lot of money on the table before I figured that out.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
+1sunny_socal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:56 am IMO that stuff doesn't really matter. Yes, they exist, but in the end you'll pay the market price depending on supply/demand for your vehicle.
- Indeed, shop via the internet
- DO NOT be suckered into "visiting the dealer" in order to get a bottom-line price. Insist on a quote via email.
- Don't forget the Costco auto buying program
Start with the Costco auto buying program. That should be the limit of how much you pay.
Keep it simple. Have your financing plan (or cash) in place BEFORE you go. Have a plan for your current vehicle BEFORE you go. Know your position of after-market accessories, treatments, and car warranties BEFORE you go. Dealers will complicate things by tying car negotiations, trade-ins, and financing together. You might get a great deal on one bucket and get reamed on the others. There's so much smoke and mirrors. Make this just about the car.
If you can negotiate with a dealer and beat the Costco price, then go for it. There's techniques like getting quotes from multiple dealers via e-mail, or getting the quote sheets and trying to negotiate from there. You could also pick your timing, buy at the end of the month, or when they have too much inventory. But you might find the Costco price is good enough for the effort.
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
That is ironic considering how historically dealers have not taken female car shoppers seriously!carolinaman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:23 am My wife and I used to car shop together, but I eventually realized they would read her to figure out how to sell to us. In fact, they would start asking her questions and ignoring me. They figured if they could sell her they had a much stronger hand in negotiations. She now is involved in the selection of the type of cars, options, etc. We jointly agree on what to buy. But she stays home when I do the final negotiations. I left a lot of money on the table before I figured that out.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
^^^ This.sunny_socal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:56 am IMO that stuff doesn't really matter. Yes, they exist, but in the end you'll pay the market price depending on supply/demand for your vehicle.
- Indeed, shop via the internet
- DO NOT be suckered into "visiting the dealer" in order to get a bottom-line price. Insist on a quote via email.
- Don't forget the Costco auto buying program
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Well, yes, but you still may need to visit multiple dealers in person to evaluate the options you're considering.squirm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:07 pm^^^ This.sunny_socal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:56 am IMO that stuff doesn't really matter. Yes, they exist, but in the end you'll pay the market price depending on supply/demand for your vehicle.
- Indeed, shop via the internet
- DO NOT be suckered into "visiting the dealer" in order to get a bottom-line price. Insist on a quote via email.
- Don't forget the Costco auto buying program
Reviews I've read seem to say that there isn't much difference between auto-buying programs, so probably any of the programs will result in a "good enough" price for someone who doesn't consider negotiating a hobby.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Of course. I consider the test drive the most important.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
We bought a 2019 Chrysler Pacifica in March of 2019. While I really prefer to do all my shopping on the Internet and via e-mail, what I found is that most dealers are wise to the "give me your bottom-line out-the-door price in writing via e-mail" tactic. That is, most just categorically refuse to participate. It would be nice if I could just say "well then I won't buy from them!" But then I'd probably only have 1 dealer in a 50 mile radius that I could buy from (and they wouldn't be the lowest).
What I did instead was get the Costco price on the van I wanted with a referral to a local dealer. Once there, I started negotiating from that price, since it was at least an OK but not great price. At least I knew even at that price I wouldn't necessarily be getting ripped off. I believe I ended up about $2000 or so below the Costco price on a Pacifica Touring L. Then I got an extra $500 off for financing at ~5% with Chrysler financial which I paid off about 2-3 weeks afterwards with a much cheaper loan from my credit union. I then left the dealer with the exact price and discounts written down on paper (they really didn't want to give that to me) and called another local dealer to see if they could beat the price. They almost though I was bluffing and said "if another dealer is really offering you that price, I'd take it!." So we came back the next day and completed the sale at the agreed upon price. There was the usual hard upsell for warranties and other junk but we declined it all of course.
What I did instead was get the Costco price on the van I wanted with a referral to a local dealer. Once there, I started negotiating from that price, since it was at least an OK but not great price. At least I knew even at that price I wouldn't necessarily be getting ripped off. I believe I ended up about $2000 or so below the Costco price on a Pacifica Touring L. Then I got an extra $500 off for financing at ~5% with Chrysler financial which I paid off about 2-3 weeks afterwards with a much cheaper loan from my credit union. I then left the dealer with the exact price and discounts written down on paper (they really didn't want to give that to me) and called another local dealer to see if they could beat the price. They almost though I was bluffing and said "if another dealer is really offering you that price, I'd take it!." So we came back the next day and completed the sale at the agreed upon price. There was the usual hard upsell for warranties and other junk but we declined it all of course.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Thanks everyone for the great feedback
So here's my revised plan of attack
1. Get Costco price. I was going to ignore that step because I my impression was that it was just an OK price that I really should be able to beat. That seems entirely accurate, but I probably should still get it.
2. Don't worry about invoice, holdback, etc. I guess I was just interested in this stuff as a check on the data I'm seeing online. However, I suppose I'll just let the market do its thing.
3. Look for data on average price paid. Anyone have any specific recommendations for sites like what is described below. I don't think I saw data displayed exactly this way in any of the sites that I checked.
So here's my revised plan of attack
1. Get Costco price. I was going to ignore that step because I my impression was that it was just an OK price that I really should be able to beat. That seems entirely accurate, but I probably should still get it.
2. Don't worry about invoice, holdback, etc. I guess I was just interested in this stuff as a check on the data I'm seeing online. However, I suppose I'll just let the market do its thing.
3. Look for data on average price paid. Anyone have any specific recommendations for sites like what is described below. I don't think I saw data displayed exactly this way in any of the sites that I checked.
lthenderson wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:40 am There are numerous aggregate sites now that will show you the average price paid for a particular vehicle in your neighborhood displayed in a nice bell curve. You can bet that the lowest price is probably pretty close to what you would consider the "invoice" price of years gone by.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Thanks. This is exactly what I was looking for. Everyone has me relatively convinced that it isn't that important to know, but I still like knowing it.henry wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:40 am nadaguides.com has info on invoice pricing.
Here it is for the 2021 Chrysler Pacifica. You will have to pick trim, options, and enter zip code. It will give info on invoice price on the car, options and destination charge.
https://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2021/Ch ... tegory=Van
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Last new car I bought was >13 years ago. Always used invoice price with hold-back and rebate applied to determine my offer.
Goal: pay well below invoice with rebate applied. I'd tell the salesperson exactly what I'd pay for car X on the lot -take it or leave it.
Had to wait while they went through their act. Hate buying cars/negotiating. That worked to buy 7 cars, and always thought I'd paid a fair price.
Based on the replies above (new way to buy cars ignores invoice price) appears I'll need a new strategy when one of my cars dies!
Goal: pay well below invoice with rebate applied. I'd tell the salesperson exactly what I'd pay for car X on the lot -take it or leave it.
Had to wait while they went through their act. Hate buying cars/negotiating. That worked to buy 7 cars, and always thought I'd paid a fair price.
Based on the replies above (new way to buy cars ignores invoice price) appears I'll need a new strategy when one of my cars dies!
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
If you or spouse works at one of these companies, try and find a dealer that will honor affiliate pricing.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Thanks. Unfortunately, not on the list.anoop wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:27 pmIf you or spouse works at one of these companies, try and find a dealer that will honor affiliate pricing.
- lthenderson
- Posts: 8528
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:43 am
- Location: Iowa
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Off the top of my head but I'm sure there are many others.asdfgf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:38 pm 3. Look for data on average price paid. Anyone have any specific recommendations for sites like what is described below. I don't think I saw data displayed exactly this way in any of the sites that I checked.
lthenderson wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:40 am There are numerous aggregate sites now that will show you the average price paid for a particular vehicle in your neighborhood displayed in a nice bell curve. You can bet that the lowest price is probably pretty close to what you would consider the "invoice" price of years gone by.
www.edmunds.com
www.kbb.com
www.truecar.com
www.cars.com
www.nadaguides.com
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
This.wolf359 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:31 am+1sunny_socal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:56 am IMO that stuff doesn't really matter. Yes, they exist, but in the end you'll pay the market price depending on supply/demand for your vehicle.
- Indeed, shop via the internet
- DO NOT be suckered into "visiting the dealer" in order to get a bottom-line price. Insist on a quote via email.
- Don't forget the Costco auto buying program
Start with the Costco auto buying program. That should be the limit of how much you pay.
Keep it simple. Have your financing plan (or cash) in place BEFORE you go. Have a plan for your current vehicle BEFORE you go. Know your position of after-market accessories, treatments, and car warranties BEFORE you go. Dealers will complicate things by tying car negotiations, trade-ins, and financing together. You might get a great deal on one bucket and get reamed on the others. There's so much smoke and mirrors. Make this just about the car.
If you can negotiate with a dealer and beat the Costco price, then go for it. There's techniques like getting quotes from multiple dealers via e-mail, or getting the quote sheets and trying to negotiate from there. You could also pick your timing, buy at the end of the month, or when they have too much inventory. But you might find the Costco price is good enough for the effort.
But I wouldn't buy now. When I worked in this industry, we would jack up our prices around the median of the expected tax refund people would receive. Now, folks are also receiving stimulus. If I still worked in this industry, I would raise prices as high as I could and tapper them down over the course of three months if inventory didn't move fast enough.
Costco pricing might mitigate some of the pricing changes, but I expect dealers to send new pricing sheets to Costco during this period of time.
- andronikus
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- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:37 am
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
You may want to look at the used market. Pacifica's have a steep depreciation curve and lose 20-30% of their MSRP within a year (FCA floods the rental market with them)asdfgf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:32 am So I'm in the market for a new Chrysler Pacifica. I haven't bought a new vehicle in over a decade and for some reason it seems like based on my recollection certain information seems harder to get than it once was. I intend to just negotiate the whole deal over email and then just go in to pay and take delivery. Unfortunately, I'm stumbling right out of the gate. Here are my problems.
1. How do I find out the invoice price? I went on Edmunds, but for the Pacifica, even the MSRPs are slightly different for the base price and various options. So if Edmunds doesn't have accurate MSRP info, how can I know that it will have accurate invoice price info. Furthermore, it looks like Edmunds just give an estimated invoice price. What I would like is a broken down invoice price for base model and each option. I also tried True Car and I couldn't even get an estimated invoice price there. I found that site harder to navigate. Last time I went through this process, it seemed a whole lot easier to find this info. Maybe I'm just worse at finding things these days.
2. Any idea how I can figure out dealer holdback (i.e. NOT customer incentives). I assume that's harder, but is there a way to get reliable info?
Example:
Autotrader (Pacifica, limited trim): Autotrader
MSRP/Window Sticker:
https://www.dodge.com/hostd/windowstick ... G1LR105583
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Buying a new vehicle requires traveling to the high volume dealers for the particular manufacturer you’re shipping for. I live in Delaware and the last new vehicle I was shipping for was a Jeep Wrangler JL. The competitive “hot spot” For those is northern Virginia so that’s where we went to buy ours- more than two hours away from home. We didn’t actually talk to anyone until we physically showed up to say we took delivery. It saved us over $1,500 to take a half a day to travel to go pick up our new car when compared to what the local dealerships were willing to offer us.
I’d advise anyone who is buying a brand new car to find out where the ultra-competitive dealers are and contact those dealerships. Normally they’re w/in about 25-50 miles of one another, with competition being what it is. They’ll compete with one another for your business.
I’d advise anyone who is buying a brand new car to find out where the ultra-competitive dealers are and contact those dealerships. Normally they’re w/in about 25-50 miles of one another, with competition being what it is. They’ll compete with one another for your business.
Being wrong compounds forever.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Be careful when traveling to another state to buy your car. Consider your state's tax on the car. My son drove 400 miles to St Louis to buy a car. Saved about $2,000. He brings the car back to Nebraska and does his taxes at the end of the year and finds he has to pay a sales tax to Nebraska in the amount of $1.700. Didn't really save anything.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
This is true, except only rubes pay anywhere near MSRP for a Pacifica (or most domestic brand cars/trucks for that matter). For reference, when I bought my new 2019 Pacifica I paid almost 20% off MSRP. I was actually asking the dealer about a demo model 2018 they had with 4000 miles on it (same trim level), and my negotiated price ended up being quite a bit less than what they were asking for that one.andronikus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:44 am You may want to look at the used market. Pacifica's have a steep depreciation curve and lose 20-30% of their MSRP within a year (FCA floods the rental market with them)
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
That's surprising. When buying out-of-state, I've paid the tax at the time I've registered the vehicle in my state. I'm surprised your state would allow the vehicle to be registered without you having paid the sales tax. Sometimes it's not called sales tax when applied to a vehicle but whatever the tax on the sale is called in your state. Are you saying the out-of-state purchase was done with the idea that it would be possible to avoid the tax? Some people do use complicated LLC schemes to avoid taxes by registering vehicles in different states but that doesn't appear to be what you were doing.Oilcans wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:24 am Be careful when traveling to another state to buy your car. Consider your state's tax on the car. My son drove 400 miles to St Louis to buy a car. Saved about $2,000. He brings the car back to Nebraska and does his taxes at the end of the year and finds he has to pay a sales tax to Nebraska in the amount of $1.700. Didn't really save anything.
I would assume the $2000 savings was on the price of the car and had nothing to do with sales tax, in which case he did save $2000 less the cost of the trip.
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Re: Buying new car, need some advice
I have visited all of the car buying websites (Edmunds, Consumer Reports, KBB, etc) and they do offer a lot of helpful info. But by far and away, the most helpful resource I ever came across was this classic book from 1993 "In The Driver's Seat" by James Bragg:
https://www.amazon.com/Drivers-Seat-Buy ... 279&sr=8-1
Based on what I remember from the book, do the following:
1) Get the Costco price, but this is a great price to start your negotiation at. You can almost always negotiate lower from there.
2) DO find out the invoice for your exact model and trim. Do find out about holdbacks and factory to dealer incentives. There are two reasons for this. First, you need to to know so you can verify the figures the dealer is quoting are correct and accurate. I once bought an Acura and was told by the dealer that I could get the car at invoice. It turns out their invoice was $400 higher than the actual invoice. When I asked why, he said they include their cost for advertising in the invoice. Once while buying an Audi, I was told by the dealership that they could not sell me the car at that price because they would not make any money. I then replied, "I am confused because you will still receive the current factory to dealer incentive". I then showed the salesman my printout verifying the incentive existed.
If you find out the actual invoice and any holdbacks/incentives and you let the salesman know about them, it communicates to them that you are a serious buyer who has done his research and you should not be jerked around.
3) If you know the exact model and trim of the car you want, I would get the email addresses of the internet sales managers of 4 or 5 local dealerships. Send each of them an email that basically says that you are a serious car buyer who fully intends to buy a car in the next 2 days. Tell them that you are shopping with several local dealerships and who ever offers you the lowest out the door price will earn your business. Once you get the best offer, tell the internet sales manager that you will come to the dealership with a printout of his or her email in your hand and as long as they honor the price you have in writing, you will buy the car. But if they attempt a bait and switch, you will walk and take your business elsewhere.
Hope that helps and good luck!
https://www.amazon.com/Drivers-Seat-Buy ... 279&sr=8-1
Based on what I remember from the book, do the following:
1) Get the Costco price, but this is a great price to start your negotiation at. You can almost always negotiate lower from there.
2) DO find out the invoice for your exact model and trim. Do find out about holdbacks and factory to dealer incentives. There are two reasons for this. First, you need to to know so you can verify the figures the dealer is quoting are correct and accurate. I once bought an Acura and was told by the dealer that I could get the car at invoice. It turns out their invoice was $400 higher than the actual invoice. When I asked why, he said they include their cost for advertising in the invoice. Once while buying an Audi, I was told by the dealership that they could not sell me the car at that price because they would not make any money. I then replied, "I am confused because you will still receive the current factory to dealer incentive". I then showed the salesman my printout verifying the incentive existed.
If you find out the actual invoice and any holdbacks/incentives and you let the salesman know about them, it communicates to them that you are a serious buyer who has done his research and you should not be jerked around.
3) If you know the exact model and trim of the car you want, I would get the email addresses of the internet sales managers of 4 or 5 local dealerships. Send each of them an email that basically says that you are a serious car buyer who fully intends to buy a car in the next 2 days. Tell them that you are shopping with several local dealerships and who ever offers you the lowest out the door price will earn your business. Once you get the best offer, tell the internet sales manager that you will come to the dealership with a printout of his or her email in your hand and as long as they honor the price you have in writing, you will buy the car. But if they attempt a bait and switch, you will walk and take your business elsewhere.
Hope that helps and good luck!
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
Sorry I should have called him before posting. At my age I have problems remembering sometimes.
I did call him and he said it was a local tax of 2% on his $23,200 purchase so he ended up paying $464 to Nebraska.
Still was a surprise to him when he had to pay the unexpected tax.
I did call him and he said it was a local tax of 2% on his $23,200 purchase so he ended up paying $464 to Nebraska.
Still was a surprise to him when he had to pay the unexpected tax.
Re: Buying new car, need some advice
This was my exact strategy about 12 years ago. However, it appears that the general advice has changed a bit.joebruin77 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:04 am I have visited all of the car buying websites (Edmunds, Consumer Reports, KBB, etc) and they do offer a lot of helpful info. But by far and away, the most helpful resource I ever came across was this classic book from 1993 "In The Driver's Seat" by James Bragg:
https://www.amazon.com/Drivers-Seat-Buy ... 279&sr=8-1
Based on what I remember from the book, do the following:
1) Get the Costco price, but this is a great price to start your negotiation at. You can almost always negotiate lower from there.
2) DO find out the invoice for your exact model and trim. Do find out about holdbacks and factory to dealer incentives. There are two reasons for this. First, you need to to know so you can verify the figures the dealer is quoting are correct and accurate. I once bought an Acura and was told by the dealer that I could get the car at invoice. It turns out their invoice was $400 higher than the actual invoice. When I asked why, he said they include their cost for advertising in the invoice. Once while buying an Audi, I was told by the dealership that they could not sell me the car at that price because they would not make any money. I then replied, "I am confused because you will still receive the current factory to dealer incentive". I then showed the salesman my printout verifying the incentive existed.
If you find out the actual invoice and any holdbacks/incentives and you let the salesman know about them, it communicates to them that you are a serious buyer who has done his research and you should not be jerked around.
3) If you know the exact model and trim of the car you want, I would get the email addresses of the internet sales managers of 4 or 5 local dealerships. Send each of them an email that basically says that you are a serious car buyer who fully intends to buy a car in the next 2 days. Tell them that you are shopping with several local dealerships and who ever offers you the lowest out the door price will earn your business. Once you get the best offer, tell the internet sales manager that you will come to the dealership with a printout of his or her email in your hand and as long as they honor the price you have in writing, you will buy the car. But if they attempt a bait and switch, you will walk and take your business elsewhere.
Hope that helps and good luck!