Lexus or Tesla?

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hunoraut
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

bgf wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:55 pm You aren't supposed to discharge the battery beyond 20% or charge it beyond 80%.
It's true. Basic Li-Ion battery science: avoid deep discharges, avoid extended duration at extreme charges, avoid high temp, yadda yadda yadda. It's not black and white though - like saying you shouldn't rev your motor above 75% of redline - you use it as you need. People do the same to laptops and phones.
bgf wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:55 pm Makes discussions of "range" totally misleading.
On the other hand, the range discussion is mostly caricature. For day to day usage, number of times people cover 200mi+ (or drain 70% of their tank) in a single day? near zero. For road trips, I've done many multi-state, multi-country drives, and the number of times I've done 600mi/10hr legs without a single stop (as is claimed here)? Absolutely zero. I don't do 10hr business class flights without multiple bathrooms breaks and stretching my legs. If you can do that - power to ya.

After 20,000 miles, the number of times I've charged in public outside of a roadtrip: twice. once was first day ownership out of curiosity.
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 1:25 am imagine doing that with electric vehicle where you have to plan out path to where chargers are.
no planning required. get in the car, put in your destination, and if you need to charge en route, the computer tells you when and where.
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 1:25 am Also, the attention desperate tesla owners in social media make me not want to be a part of them 😎
imagine signaling your personal purchasing decisions based on what other people do....
bgf
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by bgf »

Usage is just totally dependent on the individual. Like I said, my commute to my office is 5 miles round-trip, but I frequently have to drive up to 100-120 miles away for work and then back again. I'm also often going to places where you can't find a Starbucks, forget about a Tesla supercharging station.

It just doesn't work for me, but I know many clearly have no trouble with 200 mile range.
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"
hunoraut
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

bgf wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:40 am Usage is just totally dependent on the individual. Like I said, my commute to my office is 5 miles round-trip, but I frequently have to drive up to 100-120 miles away for work and then back again. I'm also often going to places where you can't find a Starbucks, forget about a Tesla supercharging station.

It just doesn't work for me, but I know many clearly have no trouble with 200 mile range.
Likely this scenario would be: drive to remote work site; on the way back, pop by an interstate charger for 10 minute top-up, and proceed home. 10m being inconsequential on the return leg. Given your journey is covered by the network.

But yes, it's correct: it's not for everyone. Which somehow people conflate with "its not for anyone".

I really wouldn't recommend it for people without access to overnight charging. (Although millions of Europeans make it work with even smaller, shorter range cars...)
bwalling
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by bwalling »

I've had both, and it's a tough decision. I had a Lexus IS 350 F Sport and now have a Tesla Model 3 Long Range / Performance. I prefer a smaller, sportier vehicle, so the other Lexus models are too big and their handling too poor for me. I had them as loaner cars from time to time, and while bigger, the drive was too soft.

The interior comfort of the Lexus is superior. It's not close. The Tesla does not have SiriusXM, which is fairly annoying to me (yes, I can pair my phone and stream from there, but that's really a nuisance on a regular basis). The feel of the steering was better for me in the Lexus than in the Tesla.

The convenience of charging the Tesla at home and never going to a gas station is great. Charging from my solar panels is a bonus. I don't do any maintenance on the Tesla, which is also nice. The lack of a key winds up being one of my favorite parts - it's not just "push button start", it's not having to unlock, not having to start the car, not having to put the car in park, not having to turn it off, not having to lock it, etc. It's hard to describe why it matters, but you just open the door get in, drive, then walk away without having to manage all the superfluous steps. I get easily irritated my otherwise minor things that have to be repeated over and over. May not matter to anyone else. One pedal diving is also nice - I never use the brake. It's a minor adjustment, but it's quite nice.

For longer trips, the Tesla is a bit more of a nuisance. Every few weeks, I drive 4 hours away. I have to stop for ~20 minutes to charge each way. There are superchargers and the car knows where they are and takes you to them, but it's a longer stop than gas, and it's more often than gas. Charging is easy and fine on the other end, as many of the hotels in that area have chargers, so I just plug it in when I get there (and usually get a great parking space because of it). Around town, the Tesla wins hands down because I just charge it in the garage when I need to and never think about going to a gas station. It's also cheaper in that regard.

I like the Model 3, and I'm not getting rid of it. I wouldn't steer anyone away from getting one. If you told me I had to pick only one car for the rest of my life, it would likely be the IS 350, preferably with an MX-5 on the side for pure fun. It just hits a perfect sweet spot for me of comfort and driving performance (I also like the M3, but find the interior of the Lexus to be nicer, and the M3 a bit more overhead in terms of maintenance).

If you do buy a Tesla, plan to install a charger at home. If you don't, you'll likely hate it.
bgf
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by bgf »

hunoraut wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:55 am
bgf wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:40 am Usage is just totally dependent on the individual. Like I said, my commute to my office is 5 miles round-trip, but I frequently have to drive up to 100-120 miles away for work and then back again. I'm also often going to places where you can't find a Starbucks, forget about a Tesla supercharging station.

It just doesn't work for me, but I know many clearly have no trouble with 200 mile range.
Likely this scenario would be: drive to remote work site; on the way back, pop by an interstate charger for 10 minute top-up, and proceed home. 10m being inconsequential on the return leg. Given your journey is covered by the network.

But yes, it's correct: it's not for everyone. Which somehow people conflate with "its not for anyone".

I really wouldn't recommend it for people without access to overnight charging. (Although millions of Europeans make it work with even smaller, shorter range cars...)
I think I'll seriously consider one when an EV in the $30-40k range can go 400-500 miles. Given the speed of advancement it'll probably be my next vehicle after the one I'm about to purchase. I look forward to it. I like pretty much everything about the EV 'powertrain' except for the current lack of range and charging network in comparison to gas stations.
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"
wander
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by wander »

I have a Lexus LS. Although 25+ years, it still runs great with minimum maintenance. My car has belt so I have to change it as part of maintenance. New Lexus cars have timing chains so the maitenance can be lower to just brakes and oil. If the desire is to keep it as long as possible, then you can do that with a Lexus since it has been proven that many Lexus cars have passed 1,000,000 miles mark. However, it is personal preference. I don't mind getting dirty somtimes, like to drive something that's getting rare, find it enjoyable taking care our cars and working on cars keeps my mind relax so ICE is an easy choice for me.
But, if you don't care about maintenance and want the car that you can just drive, then the Tesla is the better choice.
With Tesla's 400 range per charge, you don't really need a charger at home as long superchargers are a few miles away. All you need is to fill it up every few weeks just like with gasoline.
newyorker
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by newyorker »

wander wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:48 am I have a Lexus LS. Although 25+ years, it still runs great with minimum maintenance. My car has belt so I have to change it as part of maintenance. New Lexus cars have timing chains so the maitenance can be lower to just brakes and oil. If the desire is to keep it as long as possible, then you can do that with a Lexus since it has been proven that many Lexus cars have passed 1,000,000 miles mark. However, it is personal preference. I don't mind getting dirty somtimes, like to drive something that's getting rare, find it enjoyable taking care our cars and working on cars keeps my mind relax so ICE is an easy choice for me.
But, if you don't care about maintenance and want the car that you can just drive, then the Tesla is the better choice.
With Tesla's 400 range per charge, you don't really need a charger at home as long superchargers are a few miles away. All you need is to fill it up every few weeks just like with gasoline.

Problem is regular car takes 5 min max at gas station. Tesla takes at least 50 min to fully charge it. Electric car only makes sense with own garage and charging system.
wander
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by wander »

newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:00 am
wander wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:48 am I have a Lexus LS. Although 25+ years, it still runs great with minimum maintenance. My car has belt so I have to change it as part of maintenance. New Lexus cars have timing chains so the maitenance can be lower to just brakes and oil. If the desire is to keep it as long as possible, then you can do that with a Lexus since it has been proven that many Lexus cars have passed 1,000,000 miles mark. However, it is personal preference. I don't mind getting dirty somtimes, like to drive something that's getting rare, find it enjoyable taking care our cars and working on cars keeps my mind relax so ICE is an easy choice for me.
But, if you don't care about maintenance and want the car that you can just drive, then the Tesla is the better choice.
With Tesla's 400 range per charge, you don't really need a charger at home as long superchargers are a few miles away. All you need is to fill it up every few weeks just like with gasoline.

Problem is regular car takes 5 min max at gas station. Tesla takes at least 50 min to fully charge it. Electric car only makes sense with own garage and charging system.
There are places where Tesla supercharger stations are at very convenient locations like a supermarket, you have to do shopping for groceries anyway. So, as I mention, it's personal preference.
CPonzi
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by CPonzi »

joebruin77 wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:57 pm
CPonzi wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:23 pm I'd go with the Lexus without hesitation. Tesla's are great but IMO they rely to heavily on the center screen console. Last I checked, you can't even open the glove box without using the center console. If you are a minimalist to the point of inconvenience then the Tesla might be more fitting. If you want to turn down the stereo volume on a Lexus, you can easily reach down and turn the knob without taking your eyes off the road. For me it's these little things that add up to a huge difference.

If you only plan on owning the Tesla for 3-5 years you should be good, if you tend to own your cars longer consider how outdated the electronics will be. When is the last time you had a Tablet that's over 5 years old that was still up-to-date and fast? Another consideration is fit and finish, you can't compare the two and combine that with being able to go to a physical dealership or third party repair facility. For the Tesla you are very limited in the repair facilities depending on where you live. Lexus are fairly ubiquitous and have a traditional network along with 3rd party repair facilities that can do most repairs.

As an in between, how about a high trim level RAV4 Prime? It can go 40 miles on battery but, if you forget to plug it in, it'll still work in hybrid mode. Right now they are hard to find and selling fast but are still trickling in.
You are assuming that using the touchscreen is inconvenient. I actually find it very intuitive and simple. It is easy to open the glovebox using the touchscreen, but if you prefer, you can alternatively open it with a voice command by simply saying "Open Glovebox". You can adjust the volume using the physical volume buttons (yes, there are actual buttons for volume) or, by using one of the scroll wheels on the steering wheel, so you can easily adjust the volume without taking your hand off the steering wheel.

Tesla's over the air updates improve the car after you buy it and will help to keep the car up to date. I understand your concern about aging electronics, but keep in mind with a Tesla you won't have to worry about aging timing belts and other parts of ICE cars that take a beating with gasoline engines. Teslas come with an 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty on the battery.

The one thing you do want to avoid with a Tesla is frequently charging it to 100%. For optimal battery health, you should only charge it to 100% once in a while such as while going on a long road trip. I keep my Tesla charged to a maximum of 80%, which means I have about 250 miles of range each day I leave the house.

The RAV4 Prime is a great car, but as you said, they are in high demand. Also to get the faster charger, you need to get the most expensive trim. A fully loaded RAV4 Prime prices at around $50K


I'm a big fan of keeping it simple... replacing a $2 dollar latch with a voice command or single point of failure touch screen seems like a problem was solved that didn't exist. Touchscreens provide no tactile feedback, you have to look to know where you are touching. It's not just an issue of a glove box of course but almost every function including climate controls... I'll take a dedicated simple interface that the Lexus have in addition to their Infotainment (doesn't have to be all or nothing, Lexus has best of both worlds). I've never been a fan of voice commands but that's a personal preference. The model S had a recall as their touch screens were only designed for 5 years or so of life. Only time will tell how the Model 3 touchscreen holds up.

Manufacturers know what the expected life is of most components before they reach a point of increasing failures (commonly referred to as the bathtub curve). I'm sure Tesla has done the math and expects minimal issues with the battery for 8 years thus they warrantied it as such. Toyota has tons of data on their hybrid batteries and now have a 10 year 150,000 mile warranty as well. For some, 8 years is plenty of life out of a car so why worry about replacement costs, personally I keep a car well beyond that so it depends on how long the OP plans on keeping the car. I don't think you'll find a Lexus with a timing belt, they are all chains now. From what I see, replacing the battery pack costs around $16,000, you can fix a lot of "aging" ICE components for $16K.

The 80% rule for charging is to extend battery longevity and reduce wear. I actually do this with my cell phone too, only charging to 80%. If this is what Tesla recommends then they should advertise the 100% range and 80% range. Hopefully customers are made aware of this before buying.

I'm a fan of what Tesla is trying to do but their cars still seem like Beta editions... especially when it comes to fit and finish. They are definitely pushing inovation but its really unfortunate that they also didn't push industry standards for charging infrastructure. It takes early adopters like yourself to help work out the kinks and reduce the cost (thank you).

If I were a car buyer today like the OP, there is nothing you could say to convince me to buy a Tesla over an established brand like Lexus. I also don't see things like over the air updates as being a good thing. I just want my car to work and the manufacturer to dial in the software on day 1. Even the "green" aspects of Tesla are dependent on what the electricity source you are using. Lithium is also incredibly harsh on the environment when mining, I don't know much about their recycling process though... hopefully they can recover some of it.
hunoraut
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:00 am Problem is regular car takes 5 min max at gas station. Tesla takes at least 50 min to fully charge it.
Based on what real life experience do you make this claim?

The typical charging session for a Model 3 for mid-trip continuance is 25-35 minutes. (It is a function of charging curve and charger spacing).

An on a return leg, or a local trip, it's as quick as a 5-10 min top up as one only needs to reach home to get it full overnight again.

Driving across the continent multiple times, I've never spent 50 minutes at a charger. Ever.
newyorker
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by newyorker »

hunoraut wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:03 pm
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:00 am Problem is regular car takes 5 min max at gas station. Tesla takes at least 50 min to fully charge it.
Based on what real life experience do you make this claim?

The typical charging session for a Model 3 for mid-trip continuance is 25-35 minutes. (It is a function of charging curve and charger spacing).

An on a return leg, or a local trip, it's as quick as a 5-10 min top up as one only needs to reach home to get it full overnight again.

Driving across the continent multiple times, I've never spent 50 minutes at a charger. Ever.

How long does it take to charge from 10 percent to full? It takes max 5 min at gas station to go from 0 to 100 percent. I am sick of tesla owners trying to defend its pathetic charging problem. Electric car only works with charger at home and very unusable without charger at home. Even worse for long distance trip. Imagine stopping for 20 min everytime your battary goes down 50 percent or so. Gas car, you can use 95 percent of fuel. Select any gas station and go to full range (usually 450 miles+) within 5 min.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

hunoraut wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:03 pm
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:00 am Problem is regular car takes 5 min max at gas station. Tesla takes at least 50 min to fully charge it.
Based on what real life experience do you make this claim?
The typical charging session for a Model 3 for mid-trip continuance is 25-35 minutes. (It is a function of charging curve and charger spacing).
An on a return leg, or a local trip, it's as quick as a 5-10 min top up as one only needs to reach home to get it full overnight again.
Driving across the continent multiple times, I've never spent 50 minutes at a charger. Ever.
Something I learned is that the most time efficient method is to charge often rather than deeply. At a time when I needed a restroom frequently, I saw firsthand that a quick 10-15 minute charge sufficient to get to a moderately nearby Supercharger was the best technique.

I also have never spent 50 minutes at a charger that wasn’t in my garage. Except, maybe I spent that long at a Supercharger in Albany where my kid enjoyed a meal at Cheesecake Factory (I know, I know, bad parenting).
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Sage16
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by Sage16 »

We are on our 3rd Lexus. Good solid reliable cars that we keep for the long term. The next car will probably be electric but our 2018 RX350 will be going strong still a decade from now so it will be awhile.
Bogle on investing: Diversify, focus on low costs, invest for the long term. Don't speculate and don't be distracted by volatility.
Normchad
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by Normchad »

wander wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:41 am
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:00 am
wander wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:48 am I have a Lexus LS. Although 25+ years, it still runs great with minimum maintenance. My car has belt so I have to change it as part of maintenance. New Lexus cars have timing chains so the maitenance can be lower to just brakes and oil. If the desire is to keep it as long as possible, then you can do that with a Lexus since it has been proven that many Lexus cars have passed 1,000,000 miles mark. However, it is personal preference. I don't mind getting dirty somtimes, like to drive something that's getting rare, find it enjoyable taking care our cars and working on cars keeps my mind relax so ICE is an easy choice for me.
But, if you don't care about maintenance and want the car that you can just drive, then the Tesla is the better choice.
With Tesla's 400 range per charge, you don't really need a charger at home as long superchargers are a few miles away. All you need is to fill it up every few weeks just like with gasoline.

Problem is regular car takes 5 min max at gas station. Tesla takes at least 50 min to fully charge it. Electric car only makes sense with own garage and charging system.
There are places where Tesla supercharger stations are at very convenient locations like a supermarket, you have to do shopping for groceries anyway. So, as I mention, it's personal preference.
And, for most people, most of the time, they charge at home, where the time spent is inconsequential. In 2 years, I have only been to the supercharger 4 times. Only 4 times in 2 years. And two of those times were just to check it out.

I would and could drive it across the country. But I’m never going to do that. And I never did it in my gas cars either. I’ll just take an airplane..... but if you need to tow your 12,000 pound boat over the Rockies every day on your way to work, you’ll want to buy something else.

Now the seats, they’re comfortable. But man, they don’t breathe. I’d prefer a cloth covering, or ventilated seats, or something.
Last edited by Normchad on Sun May 02, 2021 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hunoraut
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:14 pm How long does it take to charge from 10 percent to full? It takes max 5 min at gas station to go from 0 to 100 percent. I am sick of tesla owners trying to defend its pathetic charging problem. Electric car only works with charger at home and very unusable without charger at home. Even worse for long distance trip. Imagine stopping for 20 min everytime your battary goes down 50 percent or so. Gas car, you can use 95 percent of fuel. Select any gas station and go to full range (usually 450 miles+) within 5 min.
Tesla owners do not stop anytime the battery goes down to 50% or so.
Tesla owners do not spend 50 minutes at charging stops.
Tesla owners do not charge to full on the road for reasons I described above (net time efficiency given charging curve and charger spacing).

You complain about "Tesla owners on social media" but while people are sharing actual experiences, you keep pushing poorly-informed prejudices.


edit: changed EV to Tesla. dont want to speak for Leaf/Bolt/iPace/whatever owners.
newyorker
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by newyorker »

hunoraut wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:24 pm
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:14 pm How long does it take to charge from 10 percent to full? It takes max 5 min at gas station to go from 0 to 100 percent. I am sick of tesla owners trying to defend its pathetic charging problem. Electric car only works with charger at home and very unusable without charger at home. Even worse for long distance trip. Imagine stopping for 20 min everytime your battary goes down 50 percent or so. Gas car, you can use 95 percent of fuel. Select any gas station and go to full range (usually 450 miles+) within 5 min.
Tesla owners do not stop anytime the battery goes down to 50% or so.
Tesla owners do not spend 50 minutes at charging stops.
Tesla owners do not charge to full on the road for reasons I described above (net time efficiency given charging curve and charger spacing).

You complain about "Tesla owners on social media" but while people are sharing actual experiences, you keep pushing poorly-informed prejudices.


edit: changed EV to Tesla. dont want to speak for Leaf/Bolt/iPace/whatever owners.


My point is when long distance trip you guys go from 80 to 20 and stop for 20min + charge to go back to 80 then rinse and repeat. You are only using 60 percent of usable range and it takes 20 min to charge that 60 percent.

Gas car can use full 450 miles then stop at gas station then back to 450 miles range in 5 min. Electric cars cannot beat gas cars in long distance trip. Period.
Normchad
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by Normchad »

hunoraut wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:24 pm
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:14 pm How long does it take to charge from 10 percent to full? It takes max 5 min at gas station to go from 0 to 100 percent. I am sick of tesla owners trying to defend its pathetic charging problem. Electric car only works with charger at home and very unusable without charger at home. Even worse for long distance trip. Imagine stopping for 20 min everytime your battary goes down 50 percent or so. Gas car, you can use 95 percent of fuel. Select any gas station and go to full range (usually 450 miles+) within 5 min.
Tesla owners do not stop anytime the battery goes down to 50% or so.
Tesla owners do not spend 50 minutes at charging stops.
Tesla owners do not charge to full on the road for reasons I described above (net time efficiency given charging curve and charger spacing).

You complain about "Tesla owners on social media" but while people are sharing actual experiences, you keep pushing poorly-informed prejudices.


edit: changed EV to Tesla. dont want to speak for Leaf/Bolt/iPace/whatever owners.
It should be mentioned somewhere that Tesla doesn’t even advertise. Car commercials, are so tiring in their frequency. I feel like half the super bowl is Chevy and Lexus ads. So thanks Tesla for not doing that. But thanks also for not spending money on it.

I can’t imagine how much more whining there would be if they actually advertised.

Most of what you hear is just other people blathering about it. It’s not Tesla blathering.....
Normchad
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by Normchad »

newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:32 pm
hunoraut wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:24 pm
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:14 pm How long does it take to charge from 10 percent to full? It takes max 5 min at gas station to go from 0 to 100 percent. I am sick of tesla owners trying to defend its pathetic charging problem. Electric car only works with charger at home and very unusable without charger at home. Even worse for long distance trip. Imagine stopping for 20 min everytime your battary goes down 50 percent or so. Gas car, you can use 95 percent of fuel. Select any gas station and go to full range (usually 450 miles+) within 5 min.
Tesla owners do not stop anytime the battery goes down to 50% or so.
Tesla owners do not spend 50 minutes at charging stops.
Tesla owners do not charge to full on the road for reasons I described above (net time efficiency given charging curve and charger spacing).

You complain about "Tesla owners on social media" but while people are sharing actual experiences, you keep pushing poorly-informed prejudices.


edit: changed EV to Tesla. dont want to speak for Leaf/Bolt/iPace/whatever owners.


My point is when long distance trip you guys go from 80 to 20 and stop for 20min + charge to go back to 80 then rinse and repeat. You are only using 60 percent of usable range and it takes 20 min to charge that 60 percent.

Gas car can use full 450 miles then stop at gas station then back to 450 miles range in 5 min. Electric cars cannot beat gas cars in long distance trip. Period.
I wouldn’t do that. I’d start at 100 and go pretty close to zero. Tesla says that’s fine.

And everybody has a different t situation. If you make long trips often, this might be a deal breaker for you. It wouldn’t be for me, because I do that very rarely.

And a lot of people who do it in their Tesla, love it. They just like to travel that way, and stop and smell the roses.

Its just like with any purchase, everybody should understand what they are buying, and see if it makes sense for *them*, and the way they plan to use it.

My Tesla gets very close to the Range that the EPA says it does. It takes a hit in the winter. So it’s not always what the EPA says. And this is exactly the same way as every gas car I’ve owned. Their mileage is usually below the EPA numbers, sometimes by a lot.
hunoraut
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:32 pm My point is when long distance trip you guys go from 80 to 20 and stop for 20min + charge to go back to 80 then rinse and repeat. You are only using 60 percent of usable range and it takes 20 min to charge that 60 percent.

Gas car can use full 450 miles then stop at gas station then back to 450 miles range in 5 min. Electric cars cannot beat gas cars in long distance trip. Period.
Has anyone claimed car A beat car B in long distance trip?

More relevant, how many 450+ mile trip have you taken where +/- 30 minutes of punctuality is critical?

How many trips 450+ mile trips have you taken that's been nonstop --- because coincidentally you just happened to start with a full tank, AND in the 6.5hrs of driving you need neither a food break or a bio break?

I've driven from Southern Europe to Scandinavia in 4 different cars, including a Tesla. The actual experience is largely the same. When you drive literally from sun-up to sun-down, [1 lunch + 1 or 2 fueling breaks] is no different than [4 charging breaks with the eating and etc built in].

For my annual summer trip to Croatia, whether I arrive to the hotel at 6pm or 7pm is not the basis on which I purchase a car. Neither is the fact that it can accelerate from 0-60 in 3.2 seconds (Tesla) or 0-60 in 4.4 seconds (previous). That's not a very instructive manner with which to evaluate these things.
JakeyLee
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by JakeyLee »

Both good choices for different reasons. Full disclosure: I am rare former Tesla owner. While I loved the performance and fun factor of the Tesla, I ended up losing confidence in the brand. I had three small warranty issues in the first 18 months. But most importantly, living in the south west has me enjoying long road trips. I thought I could make to work. But it was not workable for ME. I hated having to own a second vehicle to do overnight runs from Scottsdale to Los Angeles or Northern California . If I was still working and commuting full time, I'd go back to an Electric vehicle in a heart beat. As it stands I am now part of the 20% of former electric vehicle buyers that have gone back to ICE vehicles.
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hunoraut
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

Normchad wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:32 pm Most of what you hear is just other people blathering about it. It’s not Tesla blathering.....
It's incredible how dogmatic people get about this topic.

It's not burdensome to spend 5 minutes every 2 weeks splashing 91 octane in a car on the way home from work.
Neither is it problematic spending an extra 20 minutes every 2 months on a road-side charge, driving to a weekend cottage 4 hours away.

There are many more things that factor in a day to day usage experience than that.
marc in merrimack
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by marc in merrimack »

hunoraut wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:23 pm
Normchad wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:32 pm Most of what you hear is just other people blathering about it. It’s not Tesla blathering.....
It's incredible how dogmatic people get about this topic.

It's not burdensome to spend 5 minutes every 2 weeks splashing 91 octane in a car on the way home from work.
Neither is it problematic spending an extra 20 minutes every 2 months on a road-side charge, driving to a weekend cottage 4 hours away.

There are many more things that factor in a day to day usage experience than that.
For me, yes, having to use 91 octane would indeed be ‘burdensome.’ ;)
bwalling
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by bwalling »

newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:32 pm My point is when long distance trip you guys go from 80 to 20 and stop for 20min + charge to go back to 80 then rinse and repeat. You are only using 60 percent of usable range and it takes 20 min to charge that 60 percent.

Gas car can use full 450 miles then stop at gas station then back to 450 miles range in 5 min. Electric cars cannot beat gas cars in long distance trip. Period.
Is the majority of your driving trips longer than the range of {insert EV here}? If not, why is this such an issue? Charging on a longer trip is not that big of an issue. If anyone in your car needs to go to the bathroom, get some food, or anything else, you're largely fine. You are dead wrong on the 60% for trips bit. You do that around town when you're back at the charger at your house. You use the full battery on trips, and it's fine.

As has been said up thread, if you buy an EV, you should plan to put a charger at your house. If you do this, you'll be quite happy with not bothering with gas stations, fill ups, etc. You will stop to charge on trips. No one's pretending you won't, but some do seem to over exaggerate the "issue" with this. It's almost always people that don't have one, and not the people that do have one. It's really not much issue, and I drive longer than the car's range every other week. I drive down, stopping to charge, grab a coffee, and take a leak. I do the same on the way back. It takes about 15 minutes longer than pumping gas would. If that's a deal breaker on a car for you, then so be it.

But, man, some people really want to hammer on this issue like it's as important as tabs vs spaces, Mac vs PC, PlayStation vs XBox, or some other religious war.
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by CPonzi »

bwalling wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:38 pm
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:32 pm My point is when long distance trip you guys go from 80 to 20 and stop for 20min + charge to go back to 80 then rinse and repeat. You are only using 60 percent of usable range and it takes 20 min to charge that 60 percent.

Gas car can use full 450 miles then stop at gas station then back to 450 miles range in 5 min. Electric cars cannot beat gas cars in long distance trip. Period.
But, man, some people really want to hammer on this issue like it's as important as tabs vs spaces, Mac vs PC, PlayStation vs XBox, or some other religious war.
It probably feels that way because a lot of Tesla owners are akin to Vegans, Crossfitters, etc... they want to sing their Tesla song from the top of the mountain. If they had to stop for an hour ever 100 miles they'd still try to sell it somehow as a benefit (something about Deep Vein Thrombosis or whatever, Teslas are saving lives). When the charging infrastructure is built out and hopefully standardized and electric range meets or exceeds ICE range, adoption rates will be huge (assumption that electric/battery technology wins and there isn't some other innovation).
newyorker
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by newyorker »

CPonzi wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:47 pm
bwalling wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:38 pm
newyorker wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:32 pm My point is when long distance trip you guys go from 80 to 20 and stop for 20min + charge to go back to 80 then rinse and repeat. You are only using 60 percent of usable range and it takes 20 min to charge that 60 percent.

Gas car can use full 450 miles then stop at gas station then back to 450 miles range in 5 min. Electric cars cannot beat gas cars in long distance trip. Period.
But, man, some people really want to hammer on this issue like it's as important as tabs vs spaces, Mac vs PC, PlayStation vs XBox, or some other religious war.
It probably feels that way because a lot of Tesla owners are akin to Vegans, Crossfitters, etc... they want to sing their Tesla song from the top of the mountain. If they had to stop for an hour ever 100 miles they'd still try to sell it somehow as a benefit (something about Deep Vein Thrombosis or whatever, Teslas are saving lives). When the charging infrastructure is built out and hopefully standardized and electric range meets or exceeds ICE range, adoption rates will be huge (assumption that electric/battery technology wins and there isn't some other innovation).


This 100 percent. Remember the 1st gen prius owners? They all drive tesla now 😂😂😂
hunoraut
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

CPonzi wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:47 pm It probably feels that way because a lot of Tesla owners are akin to Vegans, Crossfitters, etc... they want to sing their Tesla song from the top of the mountain.
Where do you see that in this thread?
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by Prahasaurus »

I bought my first Lexus (new) in 2006, sold it in 2020. Bought the same model (450h) in 2020, this time used (2013 with 60k miles). Just can't see buying any other brand, I've been very happy with my Lexus. I'll probably sell this and buy another used one in 4-5 years, hopefully for close to my purchase price, as we don't drive the car very much, and keep it in great condition.

You just can't go wrong with a Lexus. Proven reliability and luxury.
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Old Guy
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by Old Guy »

Slightly off topic but I find the number of Lexus SUVs confusing. Which one is similar to the Ford Explorer I want to replace.

As for the topic: when you buy a Tesla you’re buying Elon Musk. For some folks that’s great. For me, not so much.
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by JackoC »

marc in merrimack wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:26 pm
hunoraut wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:23 pm
Normchad wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:32 pm Most of what you hear is just other people blathering about it. It’s not Tesla blathering.....
It's incredible how dogmatic people get about this topic.

It's not burdensome to spend 5 minutes every 2 weeks splashing 91 octane in a car on the way home from work.
Neither is it problematic spending an extra 20 minutes every 2 months on a road-side charge, driving to a weekend cottage 4 hours away.

There are many more things that factor in a day to day usage experience than that.
For me, yes, having to use 91 octane would indeed be ‘burdensome.’ ;)
West coast bias of the forum. :happy I hate 91, can actually tell the difference in my car (BMW M2). The excuse in Mountain West is that engine can't take advantage of 93 at high altitude but that's not as true of turbocharged cars. Like for many other things, don't know what CA's excuse is. :happy

Back to topic, there is in fact no way an electric car now matches a gas car on totally free wheeling *long* road trips in the US (1k's of miles like we take, taking smaller routes far from the Interstate corridors out West, etc). However OP said nothing about long road trips. For occasional longer than 200 mile trips EV's are probably fine it you have a bit of patience, and you have a charger at home. But OP did say sought reliability and objective data like Consumer Reports says Tesla has a real problem with that (despite the *theoretical* advantage of EV over ICE in simplicity, but simple 1960's ICE cars should theoretically have been more reliable than today's gadget filled ICE cars but in reality that's not true either). And general product support problems. Lexus is a no brainer from POV of somebody like OP from what they've said.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

hunoraut wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:01 am
CPonzi wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:47 pm It probably feels that way because a lot of Tesla owners are akin to Vegans, Crossfitters, etc... they want to sing their Tesla song from the top of the mountain.
Where do you see that in this thread?
It reflects the polarization that seems endemic in all things lately. Among friends, I’m willing to discuss my Tesla’s advantages and disadvantages. On BH, it feels like mentioning any negative is fueling the fires just like admitting to having sone arm soreness after the jab is fuel to an anti-vaxxer.

I previously abstained from taking part in Tesla threads. I think it’s time to take a sabbatical again.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by newyorker »

Old Guy wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 7:21 am Slightly off topic but I find the number of Lexus SUVs confusing. Which one is similar to the Ford Explorer I want to replace.

As for the topic: when you buy a Tesla you’re buying Elon Musk. For some folks that’s great. For me, not so much.

Rx
cutterinnj
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by cutterinnj »

I bought Lexus ES’s used. (Last 3 cars)

1- cheap! 2014 cost 23k certified 3.5 years ago
2- reliable! Minimal down time, should last many years, hundreds of thousands of miles (I generally replace if totaled)
3-non-proprietary parts- uses toyota parts and cheap to maintain
4- comfortable

It is a bogleheads car
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by sureshoe »

Confession, I haven't read the full thread, but I actually was at this crossroad myself.

Bought a new IS 2005 and a used RX Hybrid 2008 in 2012 (traded in for my wife's new Pilot last year). Loved both. Deciding on next car, was planning on Tesla, probably caught up on the hype. I almost did a Model X, instead of the Pilot, but couldn't get myself to a $100k pricepoint.

The Model S got a lot of hype, but I think the shine has worn off the star for me. First, there have been reliability problems. Not massive, and they get fixed - but I don't to take my car to the shop. Literally I have never had my Lexus's worked on outside oil changes. There was some exclusivity to Tesla too, but as they make these cheaper cars, that is lost. I saw the inside of a Model 3... and it was stark to say the least - I would even say "cheap".

I am surprised at how Tesla has held its value, but I can't believe that's going to continue.

Hybrids really lose value quickly - I got the used RX at a much better buy I could have gotten a non-hybrid. And, it depreciated faster than expected.

So cars are personal, drive both, go with what makes you happy. Nothing has flipped my switch, so I keep waiting. Even my wife, who wanted a new car has realized that :)
hunoraut
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 7:41 am It reflects the polarization that seems endemic in all things lately. Among friends, I’m willing to discuss my Tesla’s advantages and disadvantages. On BH, it feels like mentioning any negative is fueling the fires just like admitting to having sone arm soreness after the jab is fuel to an anti-vaxxer.
All opinions are welcomed, that are well-formed and with good intentions.

Instead, what we have are some sniping belligerently, on the grounds that they're jousting against some imaginary VeganCrossfitting figure that don't actually exist in this thread.

Teslas are excellent cars, in the sense that their usability and interaction are Apple- levels of polish. I would especially recommend them to my parents and others who don't "care" about cars. They are not the most sporting and exciting cars (not that OP is looking for it), but in that vein, neither are most Lexus.
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by CPonzi »

hunoraut wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:01 am
CPonzi wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:47 pm It probably feels that way because a lot of Tesla owners are akin to Vegans, Crossfitters, etc... they want to sing their Tesla song from the top of the mountain.
Where do you see that in this thread?
Mainly in the way avid Tesla fans brush off the negatives pointed out by other... sometimes even trying to argue that the negatives are actually a positive (like the range forcing you to take a break to charge). The pro/cons of electric vehicles greatly depend on the owner. I frequently drive long distances to see family and usually only stop when I need to fuel up (about 400 to 500 miles). I don't have to think ahead to where I'm going to stop. I've seen others talk about how they can watch Netflix in their car while waiting (not on this thread)... if I'm sitting in the drivers seat I'd much rather be making progress towards my destination than waiting.

Tesla has really innovated and pushed electric cars to the everyday driver but I'll stay on the sidelines for now. Wait until they or other more established auto makers with a proven track record innovates further. Look at how much the technology has improved in the last 5 years, can't wait to see what's available in 5 more. Until then, I'd buy a brand with a proven track record of reliability, support, and longevity so I can focus on other financial goals.
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

CPonzi wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:41 am Mainly in the way avid Tesla fans brush off the negatives pointed out by other... sometimes even trying to argue that the negatives are actually a positive (like the range forcing you to take a break to charge). The pro/cons of electric vehicles greatly depend on the owner. I frequently drive long distances to see family and usually only stop when I need to fuel up (about 400 to 500 miles). I don't have to think ahead to where I'm going to stop. I've seen others talk about how they can watch Netflix in their car while waiting (not on this thread)... if I'm sitting in the drivers seat I'd much rather be making progress towards my destination than waiting.
Who specifically are arguing that negatives are positives and forced breaks are great? It's not productive to argue against arguments that doesn't actually exist.

For me personally, I posit that in the overall context of a long trip, the total stops involved in a Tesla are inconsequential.
Actual counterclaims made in this thread: 50 minute stops - factually untrue; stopping at every 50% - factually untrue; having to "plan" the route - factually untrue. You put your destination in the computer and set off.

Here's an actual trip driving from Denver to Chicago, which isnt exactly like going along populous Californian coast:

Distance: 1600km/1000mi
Time on road: 15+ hours
Suggested stops: 32m, 30m, 14m, 23m, 24m.

The raw driving time itself is equivalent to 2 full working days. If you worked those shifts in California, labor laws would have you take 6 breaks (2 breaks + 1 lunch per day)

This trip has you taking 5 total breaks at an average of <25 minutes.

If you were to drive 6am to 9pm nonstop, how many breaks would you take anyway?
If 5 is incompatible with your driving style, fair game.
For most, this doesn't represent a substantial change.

The other noise people make around this is just silly rhetoric.
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Kagord
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by Kagord »

CPonzi wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:41 am negatives are actually a positive (like the range forcing you to take a break to charge)
Agree, same with ICE cars and filling up the morning. I love the smell of gasoline in the morning, smells like victory.
MMiroir
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by MMiroir »

avecmoi wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:43 am Once you go electric, you never want to go back to gas driving. Tesla would be my vote. But try first.
No everyone agrees with you.
1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, new research shows
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/elec ... udy-2021-4
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by newyorker »

hunoraut wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:11 am
CPonzi wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:41 am Mainly in the way avid Tesla fans brush off the negatives pointed out by other... sometimes even trying to argue that the negatives are actually a positive (like the range forcing you to take a break to charge). The pro/cons of electric vehicles greatly depend on the owner. I frequently drive long distances to see family and usually only stop when I need to fuel up (about 400 to 500 miles). I don't have to think ahead to where I'm going to stop. I've seen others talk about how they can watch Netflix in their car while waiting (not on this thread)... if I'm sitting in the drivers seat I'd much rather be making progress towards my destination than waiting.
Who specifically are arguing that negatives are positives and forced breaks are great? It's not productive to argue against arguments that doesn't actually exist.

For me personally, I posit that in the overall context of a long trip, the total stops involved in a Tesla are inconsequential.
Actual counterclaims made in this thread: 50 minute stops - factually untrue; stopping at every 50% - factually untrue; having to "plan" the route - factually untrue. You put your destination in the computer and set off.

Here's an actual trip driving from Denver to Chicago, which isnt exactly like going along populous Californian coast:

Distance: 1600km/1000mi
Time on road: 15+ hours
Suggested stops: 32m, 30m, 14m, 23m, 24m.

The raw driving time itself is equivalent to 2 full working days. If you worked those shifts in California, labor laws would have you take 6 breaks (2 breaks + 1 lunch per day)

This trip has you taking 5 total breaks at an average of <25 minutes.

If you were to drive 6am to 9pm nonstop, how many breaks would you take anyway?
If 5 is incompatible with your driving style, fair game.
For most, this doesn't represent a substantial change.

The other noise people make around this is just silly rhetoric.

So you are saying that you need to waste 2 hour total to charge for that trip?

That could be done with 2 quick stop at gas station maybe one stop. Less the 10min stop per gas station. My car has range of 500 miles + on eco mode so its easy stuff.

Not suggesting that you shouldnt take a break but having an option of getting to destination with one or two quick stop to gas station is MUCH better than having to waste 2 hours waiting for the car to charge up.

Electric car isnt even close to gas car in terms of convenience.
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by harikaried »

For those without a Tesla readily available to type in a destination to see chargers along the way and total trip time, this website does a pretty good job calculating it too:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

For example, a Model 3 Long Range could leave Raleigh, NC then recharge up to 70% in Baltimore, MD in 22 minutes before continuing to NYC. A direct trip without any stops in 500 miles would take about 8 hours 15 minutes whereas this detour to charge makes the trip 8 hours 44 minutes.

Alternatively, if someone wants 2 stops to break up the trip, one could instead recharge up to 50% at both Springfield, VA and Pedricktown, NJ for ~10 minutes each for a total trip 8 hours 50 minutes.

Theoretically the upcoming 2022 Model S Plaid+ would use their new battery technology allowing for "520+ mi" range to do this trip without stopping, but that's personal preference to spend (a lot) more and wait longer before purchasing to shave 5% off the trip time vs charging once on the road for ~20 minutes.
alfaspider
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by alfaspider »

dbr wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:01 am Why not go drive both and see what you like?
Exactly this. Cars are a personal choice, and at the end of the day you have to touch and feel to see what you really like.

Regardless of what you think of the cars or the company, one advantage of Tesla's business model is that test drives are really easy. No commissioned sales people or hard sells. When I test drove a Model 3, I was in driving the car by myself about 5 minutes after showing up. The people are there to answer questions and tell you how to operate the car, but are otherwise pretty hands off.

My impression of the 3 is it made my car (which is a pretty quick car with a 0-60 time below 5 seconds) feel antiquated and slow. You don't realize how much engine vibration and noise comes through the cabin until it's gone. At the same time, there's a lot of techy stuff that could take some getting used to. While you can ignore the tech on many cars, you are pretty much required to interact with it in a Tesla as the screen controls almost all the basic functions. The interior is spartan compared to a Lexus, and the fit and finish will not be nearly as good. However, what Tech the Lexus does have will probably be poor- their infotainment has been the subject of a lot of complaints.
alfaspider
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by alfaspider »

harikaried wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:04 pm For those without a Tesla readily available to type in a destination to see chargers along the way and total trip time, this website does a pretty good job calculating it too:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

For example, a Model 3 Long Range could leave Raleigh, NC then recharge up to 70% in Baltimore, MD in 22 minutes before continuing to NYC. A direct trip without any stops in 500 miles would take about 8 hours 15 minutes whereas this detour to charge makes the trip 8 hours 44 minutes.

Alternatively, if someone wants 2 stops to break up the trip, one could instead recharge up to 50% at both Springfield, VA and Pedricktown, NJ for ~10 minutes each for a total trip 8 hours 50 minutes.

Theoretically the upcoming 2022 Model S Plaid+ would use their new battery technology allowing for "520+ mi" range to do this trip without stopping, but that's personal preference to spend (a lot) more and wait longer before purchasing to shave 5% off the trip time vs charging once on the road for ~20 minutes.
Two comments on that:
1) Most gas cars can't make it 500 miles on a tank, so you'll be stopping either way.
2) The Tesla charge time of 22 minutes is probably a bit optimistic, as real world charging can often be a bit slower than the theoretical max. At the same time, you are probably going to want to stop for a meal anyways in an 8 hour trip, and a decent meal should be long enough to charge sufficiently. However, you will be limiting yourself on food options if you can only stop at supercharger stations.

I think full EVs are probably not the best option for folks who regularly take long road trips. While they are certainly capable of road trips, they are not likely the best tool for the job at the moment.
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by alfaspider »

newyorker wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:56 am
Electric car isnt even close to gas car in terms of convenience.
On a road trip, absolutely. But there is also the countervailing convenience with local usage of never having to stop at gas stations (assuming you can charge at home).
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

newyorker wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:56 am So you are saying that you need to waste 2 hour total to charge for that trip?

That could be done with 2 quick stop at gas station maybe one stop. Less the 10min stop per gas station. My car has range of 500 miles + on eco mode so its easy stuff.

Not suggesting that you shouldnt take a break but having an option of getting to destination with one or two quick stop to gas station is MUCH better than having to waste 2 hours waiting for the car to charge up.

Electric car isnt even close to gas car in terms of convenience.
If you had filled the car up the night before, AND you drive on eco mode, you have the option of being able to drive continuously from 6am to 9pm making a single 10 minute stop.

Congratulations, you win the prize of the contest nobody is contesting for.
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by bgf »

harikaried wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:04 pm For those without a Tesla readily available to type in a destination to see chargers along the way and total trip time, this website does a pretty good job calculating it too:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

For example, a Model 3 Long Range could leave Raleigh, NC then recharge up to 70% in Baltimore, MD in 22 minutes before continuing to NYC. A direct trip without any stops in 500 miles would take about 8 hours 15 minutes whereas this detour to charge makes the trip 8 hours 44 minutes.

Alternatively, if someone wants 2 stops to break up the trip, one could instead recharge up to 50% at both Springfield, VA and Pedricktown, NJ for ~10 minutes each for a total trip 8 hours 50 minutes.

Theoretically the upcoming 2022 Model S Plaid+ would use their new battery technology allowing for "520+ mi" range to do this trip without stopping, but that's personal preference to spend (a lot) more and wait longer before purchasing to shave 5% off the trip time vs charging once on the road for ~20 minutes.
interesting. i just punched in a trip i did last week from my office to a courthouse 85 miles away. there were no charging stations available, and assuming i began my charge at 90% with a standard model 3 i would be at 45% once there and still have to get back home. confirms it just isn't in the cards for me.
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by hunoraut »

alfaspider wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:16 pm 2) The Tesla charge time of 22 minutes is probably a bit optimistic, as real world charging can often be a bit slower than the theoretical max.
That site uses a very good model of the charging curve. They dont assume a naive power constant. I usually run it over 3-5 minutes for a buffer, which means start walking the dog back when the phone alert me of hitting the target % (then pushing it by another few percent)
alfaspider
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by alfaspider »

bgf wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:30 pm
harikaried wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:04 pm For those without a Tesla readily available to type in a destination to see chargers along the way and total trip time, this website does a pretty good job calculating it too:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

For example, a Model 3 Long Range could leave Raleigh, NC then recharge up to 70% in Baltimore, MD in 22 minutes before continuing to NYC. A direct trip without any stops in 500 miles would take about 8 hours 15 minutes whereas this detour to charge makes the trip 8 hours 44 minutes.

Alternatively, if someone wants 2 stops to break up the trip, one could instead recharge up to 50% at both Springfield, VA and Pedricktown, NJ for ~10 minutes each for a total trip 8 hours 50 minutes.

Theoretically the upcoming 2022 Model S Plaid+ would use their new battery technology allowing for "520+ mi" range to do this trip without stopping, but that's personal preference to spend (a lot) more and wait longer before purchasing to shave 5% off the trip time vs charging once on the road for ~20 minutes.
interesting. i just punched in a trip i did last week from my office to a courthouse 85 miles away. there were no charging stations available, and assuming i began my charge at 90% with a standard model 3 i would be at 45% once there and still have to get back home. confirms it just isn't in the cards for me.
If you need to make trips like that on a regular basis, you could always buy a long range model, which would have plenty for that trip.
harikaried
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Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by harikaried »

alfaspider wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:16 pmThe Tesla charge time of 22 minutes is probably a bit optimistic, as real world charging can often be a bit slower than the theoretical max
Depends on which "max" you're thinking about. The site doesn't use a flat 250kW (~1000mi/hr) "max" charge rate and seems to use the "max" charge rate based on current charge level, e.g., 250kW @ 6%, 200kW @ 36%, 90kW @ 70%. Even then, your point still holds as temperature outside and inside (if you run HVAC) can affect speeds although typically, regular driving on a trip will heat up the battery enough for optimal charging, and if not Tesla software will convert some energy to heat to minimize charging times as you approach the charger.

At least when we're traveling with our two kids, getting everyone to the toilet and back to the car often takes longer than what's needed for charging to continue the trip.
harikaried
Posts: 2613
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:47 pm

Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by harikaried »

bgf wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:30 pmfrom my office to a courthouse 85 miles away. there were no charging stations available, and assuming i began my charge at 90% with a standard model 3 i would be at 45% once there and still have to get back home
If you knew you needed to make that trip the night before, you would bump up the charge to 100% to arrive with 55% and then return with 10%. Some courthouses around here have EV chargers installed already including 12kW Tesla destination chargers, so that's about 48mi/hr while you're there.

As others have suggested, a longer range version could help too if you're concerned about range. Make an appearance in a Cybertruck? :wink:
newyorker
Posts: 1635
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 7:59 am

Re: Lexus or Tesla?

Post by newyorker »

alfaspider wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:18 pm
newyorker wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:56 am
Electric car isnt even close to gas car in terms of convenience.
On a road trip, absolutely. But there is also the countervailing convenience with local usage of never having to stop at gas stations (assuming you can charge at home).
I agree it beats gas car in local commute only assuming charger is at home. Gas car otherwise.
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