Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

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artgerst
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Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by artgerst »

First, some backstory. My DW and I have been talking about this for a little while (prior to Covid). I am mostly retired (I still remotely do some work for a company I partially own). DW and I are in our mid 50's. We are fortunate to be in this position and have enough money saved up to not work and travel. Our kids are past college and working but really haven't settled down in a particular place/city nor have kids themselves - which would change things for us.

Here's first what we want to do:
(First assuming we can travel outside the country by August/September- I don't want this topic to be a topic about covid, but assume for the sake of the topic that things generally return to normal in terms of being able to travel by August of this year).
We want to sell our big suburban house in HCOL (Virginia). Since our kids moved out we barely use half of the square footage. I am also not handy or like gardening/lawn mowing, etc. Frankly, we don't need the money when we sell our house it's just an older house that if we kept would require upkeep in addition to the normal house maintenance. I'm not looking forward to maintaining it or even paying someone to maintain it. We would sell a bunch of stuff we don't need and move things we want to keep into storage. We would then travel to different locations we know and like around the world staying in different places for 2-4 months at a time and renting via AirB&B or VRBO or short-term lease or equivalent. We also have family in Florida and Kansas and we would stay in those areas as well either with family or just rent nearby. We feel like we can do this for a year or two before either feeling too much like nomads or our kids settling down to a place and we can re-settle down ourselves based on that information.

Here are the basic issues/questions (and I appreciate all feedback)
1) Are we crazy? Is this too much of moving around?

2) DW and I are both questioning a bit of not having anyplace to hang our hat. We thought of renting a small apartment in Virginia just to have a few items there (probably still need some storage unit), but then we can at least stay in "our" place when returning to the area. We also thought about just staying with friends (we don't have family in the area). I'm sure our friends would be happy to host us for a couple of weeks at a time. The reality is that we probably wouldn't be back to Virginia for any reason except friends (and maybe some doctors we like). Thoughts of the different options: sell house/storage vs keeping our big house vs renting a small apartment vs. staying with friends?

3) Then there is the question of mail. I'm pretty sure we would just get a virtual mailbox. It seems that people love it and it's easy. Now there is a tax savings of us trying to set up residence in another state (e.g., Florida). We actually own an apartment there - my aunt lives there for free and we could use that address. Since I still earn money as an owner in Virginia I seriously doubt (unless you tell me otherwise) that I can avoid Virginia taxes for my business income, but I guess I can avoid state tax for investment income if we officially move to Florida. Thoughts on this?

4) Any other general thoughts on this whether it's advice on the idea, storage facilities, virtual mailboxes, taxes, etc.?
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kramer
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by kramer »

It sounds like you want to downsize no matter what, so I think that weighs in favor of selling the house first. Be forewarned, downsizing is an iterative process and takes time. I still laugh at my first downsizing attempts, which seem so bloated now. So start as soon as possible on that. I would vote for moving things into storage after a large (massive?) downsizing.

Maybe you could begin your trip by spending a month in Florida and getting your driver's license, doing the address changes, establishing residency, etc. I actually use a mail forwarding virtual mailbox, as I didn't want to burden my family with handling my mail, plus the virtual mailbox is much more reliable and informative (I receive a picture of each piece of mail received, can get it scanned, etc).

It's quite feasible to do AirBnb place to place, I have done this in a couple of different countries, but it's not necessarily the cheapest. Last time in Mexico I booked a month (actually 4 weeks, long enough to get the large monthly discount) at one place within the city and got extra familiar with my destination by walking everywhere, then a couple of weeks later I booked an AirBnb place 1 mile away that was exactly what I wanted. And I ended up extending my stay to 7 weeks total in the second place (AirBnb lets you extend if the owner approves it, so for my extension of 3 weeks I still only paid the monthly rate). But you are always taking some risk renting places sight unseen. And this is harder around high season. Usually there are local networks (now usually Facebook groups) for furnished housing. Often you can talk to the owner of the AirBnb you are in and work out renting longer term outside of AirBnb after you both know you like each other and you like the place. Also, if your business depends on video-call quality internet, renting sight-unseen can sometimes be a problem. I did find doing location research (before I arrive) takes a lot of time ...

I am in South America right now, and in my current city (which I was already familiar with from 10 years ago) I got an AirBnb for 9 days. Then, after arriving, I found a furnished place month to month (not on Airbnb) which I am in now, and I plan to stay in it at least 2 months.

Due to Covid, I currently have no place to go back to (even with my permanent residency visa I can't return), but I will say that after a few years of traveling I absolutely liked having a low overhead home base. And as a vagabond you will never really become a member of a community like someone who has set some roots and commitment and spends significant time there.
mhalley
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by mhalley »

Clark Howard’s brother has been living a nomad life and loves it. Clark interviews him about it here
https://clark.com/podcasts/8-30-18-clar ... -veterans/
dboeger1
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by dboeger1 »

Renting a place seems kind of pointless. It's a lot of money for a place you don't intend to spend much time in, and the last thing you want is to get evicted because the landlord sells the place or something like that while you're on the other side of the country. Most of the people I've seen doing this have mail sent to a family's or friend's residence, someone who isn't going to screw them over without plenty of advanced notice. A PO Box is another thing to consider but I don't know how practical it is to manage that while traveling. Once you have a stable mail solution, you really only need to rent living spaces as you need them in whichever location you're visiting, which seems much more efficient than paying rent for a place you'll rarely ever be in.
Rubicon2021
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Rubicon2021 »

Disclosure: this is my first post on Bogleheads. I've followed this spot for years, dug deep into Mr. Bogle's investment philosophy, and incorporated it into my retirement and taxable accounts.

First off, you're not crazy. It sounds like you have seriously taken care of business for a long time, and made some excellent financial decisions. Sell the big empty house. Carefully, but thoroughly minimize your belongings so that they fit in a small storage unit. Buy some travel insurance, get a virtual mailbox (wish I had heard of that before), and get on a plane to points known and unknown when it is safe and legal to do so.

Talk to your accountant on tax items related to FL residency. We are temporarily parked in San Diego but will probably re-establish NV residency if our plans to roam are still possible later this year.

Your story matches mine very closely. My 40-something wife and I (mid-50's) had extensive nomadic plans that were to have begun in mid-2020. Then covid stuck around longer than any of us wanted. We had already sold our too-big house in Reno, NV, rented an apartment for the last several months of my pensioned career, and put a very few curated items that we wanted to keep in a storage unit. Our kids are also out and about, not settled but also not terribly dependent on us. We had saved in retirement accounts for decades, built up travel points with a few Chase Reserve cards (always paying balances every month), and made plans to be gone for at least 6 months to a year, and possibly much longer, with the purpose of seeing what else the world has to offer besides golf, lawn maintenance, and potentially bleak isolation from the fast-moving and exciting world. After leaving Reno, the idea was that we were open to the possibility of discovering a new way of life; maybe a condo in Lisbon or Puerto Vallarta where we could do remote work via a stout internet connection, or finding rewarding volunteer opportunities somewhere "out there."

I could go on, but here's the upshot: Life is short, man. Go.
FXAIX-FSPSX-FXNAX | TCB, Jack.
Strayshot
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Strayshot »

Do it!

Having the residence in FL to use for tax purposes and occupied by a family member who can receive and deal with mail that needs rapid action while you are ex-US is even better.

I would plan for “after” a bit before taking off and determine where “home” could be. Could be VA, could be FL, could be somewhere cheap where you have no ties, but it should be near an international airport. Once you pick that spot, that is where I would store my remaining possessions. Plan for dealing with the worst, like “Hi Mr and Mrs Artgerst our facility had a flood and earthquake and we need you to disposition your items as soon as possible”. Get your physicians lined up with a plan for care and inform them of your plans: what are you doing about prescriptions? Annual dentist/physical (plus colonoscopy and other fun stuff) and pap/mammogram/ etc? Plan to be back once a year to get those appointments in!

Sounds like a blast and good luck :sharebeer
wilked
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by wilked »

Everything sounds good to me. We have a somewhat similar plan
ArtsyProf
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by ArtsyProf »

Sounds fun! Go for it!

A few years back, I put stuff into storage and drove across the country and lived in a new state for a time. Adventure! Can be tough but go follow your wanderlust. Also sounds like you have plenty of options w friends, fam, FL apartment for residency, etc. Have fun! :beer
Peaceful
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Peaceful »

If you're sure you're serious about this, sell your house, get rid of as much stuff as you can, and go nomad.

Get a storage locker somewhere that's big enough to put all your junk that you just can't bear to part with. (It'll probably just sit in the storage unit for a couple of years until you finally get around to getting rid of it.)

There are plenty of inexpensive motels, hotels, extended stay apartments, VRBOs, Air BnB's, and so forth if you need places to stay.
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artgerst
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by artgerst »

Wow! Thanks for the feedback. [Does my tagging below work using the at symbol? - if not let me know]

A few responses:
@kramer - we've been thinking about this for 5 or so years and have been progressively getting rid of things. We are pretty much minimalists anyways. I need to look into the whole switching over to Florida with my accountant, but clearly, that seems like the right thing to do. The virtual mailbox is an almost certainty for me. Thanks for the ideas on getting the best deal out of airbnb, etc. I'm sure I'll fail (spend some more money than I have to) and learn a bit in the process.

@mhalley - Thank you - I need to check that out!

@dboeger1 - I agree about renting a place. I think the one thing that feels a bit icky to me and DW is that we will have to go to our storage unit at times and swap clothing into suitcases and things. I think we see that as a bit weird but we've never had a storage unit so maybe it's not as odd as I think. I suppose we could have most things in a storage unit and our clothes and other items kept at a friend's house.

@Rubicon2021 - sounds like we are in a similar boat. Yes, we need travel insurance. I assume we will just go with the "what if something bad happens" insurance since regular basic doctor visits seem fine to pay out of pocket in most countries, but frankly I haven't done the research yet. If you have suggestions on this I would love to hear them. Our plan, in general, is probably something like 3 months in a single place in Europe, 2 months in the US (near family) - but driving, flying to Virginia to take care of doctor appointments, then 2-3 months in another place in Europe or South America, then 2 months somewhere else, then 2 months back in the US (doctors appt, family, etc)....something like that.

@Strayshot - good idea on thinking ahead. In general, we assume we will settle down in one of 4 cities in the US (because near family or we just like them) but of course our kid's decisions in terms of settling down could change ours. As for doctors and dentists, we plan on setting up a schedule to make sure we get those things done when we are in the US visiting family, kids. Great question on prescriptions. I hadn't thought of that. Luckily we are both healthy but I do have one prescription I need to deal with.
Katietsu
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Katietsu »

I am not sure what your health insurance plans are from your previous posts. Health insurance plans are extremely dependent on location of your residency. There can be a big difference even between counties, let alone states. This would a big priority in my opinion.
THY4373
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by THY4373 »

This is something I am planning on doing but haven't done it yet (still got a few more years of work ahead of me).

I would sell the place and store the stuff you don't want to get rid off after downsizing. I don't think I'd rent a place as a home base unless I thought I was going to spend about half the year there. I would certainly consider establishing residence in a no income tax state prior to heading off on vagabonding. As noted by others make sure you have your health insurance stuff figured out. I think it will be a blast.

Though I know you didn't want this to be about COVID I personally think Aug/Sep will still be fairly limited for international travel (I hope I am wrong as I have a few speculative trips booked this year). I see Q4/20 or Q1/21 as more likely for a greater return to normalcy. That said if you are flexible I expect you can find something.
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Watty
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Watty »

artgerst wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:22 pm We want to sell our big suburban house in HCOL (Virginia). Since our kids moved out we barely use half of the square footage. I am also not handy or like gardening/lawn mowing, etc. Frankly, we don't need the money when we sell our house it's just an older house that if we kept would require upkeep in addition to the normal house maintenance. I'm not looking forward to maintaining it or even paying someone to maintain it.
Most housing markets are real strong right now if not outright hot. That would make the house easy to to sell at a good price. There is a risk that you could put the sale off for too long and the housing market will change and the house could be real hard to sell especially if you put it on the market in the fall or winter when some housing markets are normally slow.

It seems pretty clear that you will not want to keep that house for the long term not matter what you decide to do about being a Nomad or living somewhere else so it would be good to focus on getting it ready to sell so you can get it listed by the late spring or early summer.
artgerst wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:22 pm 1) Are we crazy? Is this too much of moving around?
It was not clear if you have done any extended trips yet to see how long you like being on the road.

I find that after I have been on the road for about 5 or 6 weeks I am pretty much ready to go home, but that is just me. We now typically only plan on being on the road for about four weeks at a time, if that.

You have a lot of decisions to make but they do not all need to made at once so you can try things out to see how they go before you make the rest of the decisions.

If I was in your situation I would probably sell the house and rent an apartment in the city you are in now for simplicity and so it would still feel like home and then try traveling for a two month trip to see how you like being on the road for an extended time period.

When the year lease on the apartment is up if you decide you want to become a full time nomad you can then put your stuff into storage so that you can give up the apartment and travel or if you want to move someplace else.
btenny
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by btenny »

I suggest you read Lynne and Tim Martin's stories on her web site below. They sold their house and went world traveling and living out of suit cases for many years. She wrote a book and several articles for the Wall Street paper plus regular blog stories about their adventures and how they down sized. All are linked from the site.

http://homefreeadventures.com/about/

Good Luck.
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by willthrill81 »

We intend to be nomadic via an RV in retirement for 4-6 months out of the year. Renting in various locations for a few months at a time seems like a big headache due to having to move so much furniture and other things large items from place to place.
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by smitcat »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:31 am We intend to be nomadic via an RV in retirement for 4-6 months out of the year. Renting in various locations for a few months at a time seems like a big headache due to having to move so much furniture and other things large items from place to place.
"Renting in various locations for a few months at a time seems like a big headache due to having to move so much furniture and other things large items from place to place."
So far we have been able to rent furnished places for the most part - stay tuned to see if we are as successful in the future.
Time will tell.
THY4373
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by THY4373 »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:31 am We intend to be nomadic via an RV in retirement for 4-6 months out of the year. Renting in various locations for a few months at a time seems like a big headache due to having to move so much furniture and other things large items from place to place.
I assume OP is renting furnished places like AirBnBs. A lot of this is going to depend on one's approach to travel. OP mentioned international travel and so an RV is largely not going to work for that. Also I much prefer to travel very light. I can operate indefinitely out of a 30l bag (one that will fit under the seat in front of you on an airline to give a sense of size). To me travelling light has totally changed my approach to travel and I love it. Travelling with a bunch of stuff never mind the overhead of an RV has no appeal to me. Different strokes for different folks.
btenny
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by btenny »

AirbNb and VRBOs are rented fully furnished. They can be rented for a few day or a few months. Some are designed as hotel rooms and some are full kitchenettes and studio and 2-3 bedroom apartments. You just have to look and shop around for places where you want to live. Read Lynne's blog on how to find a good rental.

Good Luck.
halfnine
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by halfnine »

+1 for Kramer's advice above
artgerst wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:22 pm ...We would then travel to different locations we know and like around the world staying in different places for 2-4 months at a time...
You could probably spend quite a few years traveling as indicated above before it gets old. It is quite typical for people to stay 3-6 months in a country before moving on. Shorter than that is possible but you will likely tire of the lifestyle sooner. Longer is more prohibitive due to visa constraints. What some people do is stay in 3-4 countries each year optimizing the locations to fit the seasons or weather. The following year they might return to the same countries but swap out an old one for a new one allowing them some consistent structure but adding in a bit of extra adventure as well.
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Hayden
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Hayden »

We did something like this and loved it. Biggest issues for us were health insurance and mail. Sounds like with new technology mail is no longer a big challenge. Health insurance is still a problem. I purchased an ACA plan, which meant i was out of network when I was outside of my home county. I bought a global plan that covered me outside of the US. So, if I went to Italy I was covered, but if I went to a different State, I was not (except for emergencies).

Good luck to you. We sold a home that we loved because of the work involved. We still miss the house, but it was the right decision.
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willthrill81
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by willthrill81 »

THY4373 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:47 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:31 am We intend to be nomadic via an RV in retirement for 4-6 months out of the year. Renting in various locations for a few months at a time seems like a big headache due to having to move so much furniture and other things large items from place to place.
I assume OP is renting furnished places like AirBnBs. A lot of this is going to depend on one's approach to travel. OP mentioned international travel and so an RV is largely not going to work for that. Also I much prefer to travel very light. I can operate indefinitely out of a 30l bag (one that will fit under the seat in front of you on an airline to give a sense of size). To me travelling light has totally changed my approach to travel and I love it. Travelling with a bunch of stuff never mind the overhead of an RV has no appeal to me. Different strokes for different folks.
Yes, renting something like an AirBnB for months makes more sense to me. I believe that there is a middle-aged couple originally from Toronto that's been doing this around the world for years now and blogging about it. They actually spend remarkably little, under $30k annually IIRC.
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willthrill81
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by willthrill81 »

THY4373 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:47 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:31 am We intend to be nomadic via an RV in retirement for 4-6 months out of the year. Renting in various locations for a few months at a time seems like a big headache due to having to move so much furniture and other things large items from place to place.
I assume OP is renting furnished places like AirBnBs. A lot of this is going to depend on one's approach to travel. OP mentioned international travel and so an RV is largely not going to work for that. Also I much prefer to travel very light. I can operate indefinitely out of a 30l bag (one that will fit under the seat in front of you on an airline to give a sense of size). To me travelling light has totally changed my approach to travel and I love it. Travelling with a bunch of stuff never mind the overhead of an RV has no appeal to me. Different strokes for different folks.
Yes, international travel with an RV is more difficult, though we've been surprised at how many South Americans and Europeans we've seen bring their motor homes to U.S. national parks for extended traveling.

This greatly depends on the type of travel one likes. We like traveling light as well when we must fly; for our first European trip, my wife and I each only had one carry-on piece of luggage. But we've experienced the joys of traveling by RV and intend to do that for many years to come too.

As you say, different strokes for different folks.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by ResearchMed »

artgerst wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:34 am Wow! Thanks for the feedback. [Does my tagging below work using the at symbol? - if not let me know]

A few responses:
@kramer - we've been thinking about this for 5 or so years and have been progressively getting rid of things. We are pretty much minimalists anyways. I need to look into the whole switching over to Florida with my accountant, but clearly, that seems like the right thing to do. The virtual mailbox is an almost certainty for me. Thanks for the ideas on getting the best deal out of airbnb, etc. I'm sure I'll fail (spend some more money than I have to) and learn a bit in the process.

@mhalley - Thank you - I need to check that out!

@dboeger1 - I agree about renting a place. I think the one thing that feels a bit icky to me and DW is that we will have to go to our storage unit at times and swap clothing into suitcases and things. I think we see that as a bit weird but we've never had a storage unit so maybe it's not as odd as I think. I suppose we could have most things in a storage unit and our clothes and other items kept at a friend's house.

@Rubicon2021 - sounds like we are in a similar boat. Yes, we need travel insurance. I assume we will just go with the "what if something bad happens" insurance since regular basic doctor visits seem fine to pay out of pocket in most countries, but frankly I haven't done the research yet. If you have suggestions on this I would love to hear them. Our plan, in general, is probably something like 3 months in a single place in Europe, 2 months in the US (near family) - but driving, flying to Virginia to take care of doctor appointments, then 2-3 months in another place in Europe or South America, then 2 months somewhere else, then 2 months back in the US (doctors appt, family, etc)....something like that.

@Strayshot - good idea on thinking ahead. In general, we assume we will settle down in one of 4 cities in the US (because near family or we just like them) but of course our kid's decisions in terms of settling down could change ours. As for doctors and dentists, we plan on setting up a schedule to make sure we get those things done when we are in the US visiting family, kids. Great question on prescriptions. I hadn't thought of that. Luckily we are both healthy but I do have one prescription I need to deal with.
There are a few discussions on www.CruiseCritic.com about a similar lifestyle, although for a few people, it involves "living on a/the cruise ship".
This isn't what you are considering, and it certainly has some different pluses and minuses.

However, they have in common with you issues of health insurance (possibly other types of insurance, but health is most discussed) and "where to keep things".

In some cases, they own a [small? very small?] condo, so they have a place to go *anytime* and also have a place to store things, clothing, etc., without needing to sort through things packed up in a storage unit.
(And a condo might have a superintendent who could check up on things, but don't leave valuables around, obviously.)
This always made sense to us.
(And no, I do not know what happened to them/what they are doing, once COVID really hit...)
You might want to search CC about that for other ideas of "what else to consider".

It sounds like a really special way to spend some years. :happy
Have you considered what you'd do as you slow down a bit and perhaps need more regular medical care?

I hope it works out for you!

RM
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lthenderson
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by lthenderson »

artgerst wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:22 pm Any other general thoughts on this whether it's advice on the idea, storage facilities, virtual mailboxes, taxes, etc.?
As someone who used to frequent storage facility auctions, choose wisely. So many don't have climate control and are over run with insects and rodents that quickly make your cherished items trash. I've seen hundreds of lockers that looked like the owner downsized but didn't want to get rid of everything but came back to find the couch a giant mouse nest, the box of treasured certificates now a shredded up nest, and lots of mold everywhere. Also ask about theft occurrences and make sure nobody is hanging around scoping what you are putting in the locker while unloading. I personally would never but anything that I didn't want destroyed or lost in a storage facility.
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Caduceus »

If you are eventually going to re-settle near your kids in two years or so, this seems like an awful lot of hassle for nothing. Why not just keep your current place for two more years and actually sell when you are ready to move? Then you would not have to move twice and deal with all the logistical nightmares that come with it. Besides, downsizing takes a lot of time. Two years (during the time when you are home, and you are not touring the world) sounds like a good timeline to really remove the rest of the unwanted clutter from your life.

If the timeframe were longer - e.g. you would not know your ultimate re-settlement location for ten more years, this might make sense. But for two years, it seems like a lot of trouble.
halfnine
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by halfnine »

THY4373 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:47 am ...A lot of this is going to depend on one's approach to travel. OP mentioned international travel and so an RV is largely not going to work for that. Also I much prefer to travel very light. I can operate indefinitely out of a 30l bag (one that will fit under the seat in front of you on an airline to give a sense of size). To me travelling light has totally changed my approach to travel and I love it...
What is the longest period of time you have traveled with a 30l bag? And what is the longest period of time you have stayed in one place with just a 30l bag? If your answer is less than 1 year for the first and less than 2-3 months for the second, I imagine that you will change your opinion.
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by halfnine »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:33 pm
THY4373 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:47 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:31 am We intend to be nomadic via an RV in retirement for 4-6 months out of the year. Renting in various locations for a few months at a time seems like a big headache due to having to move so much furniture and other things large items from place to place.
I assume OP is renting furnished places like AirBnBs. A lot of this is going to depend on one's approach to travel. OP mentioned international travel and so an RV is largely not going to work for that. Also I much prefer to travel very light. I can operate indefinitely out of a 30l bag (one that will fit under the seat in front of you on an airline to give a sense of size). To me travelling light has totally changed my approach to travel and I love it. Travelling with a bunch of stuff never mind the overhead of an RV has no appeal to me. Different strokes for different folks.
Yes, renting something like an AirBnB for months makes more sense to me. I believe that there is a middle-aged couple originally from Toronto that's been doing this around the world for years now and blogging about it. They actually spend remarkably little, under $30k annually IIRC.
There are many, many people blogging about it. And it is quite easy to travel the world for the same annual expense that one currently spends to live at home. Once the mindset and travel style shifts from fast and furious to slow and steady the costs go down dramatically.
MoonOrb
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by MoonOrb »

This is a serious consideration for us, too. If we go this route I have a feeling that we will sell a home and then become renters, eventually. The downsides of keeping a house seem to outweigh the upsides in this situation if that is not the house you want to live in permanently when you stop traveling.
international001
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by international001 »

Have you consider tax implications?

You want to keep the domicile in VA. From my understanding, you have to be careful: https://www.escapees.com/establishing-d ... for-rvers/
IMO
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by IMO »

Strayshot wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:58 am Do it!

Having the residence in FL to use for tax purposes and occupied by a family member who can receive and deal with mail that needs rapid action while you are ex-US is even better.

I would plan for “after” a bit before taking off and determine where “home” could be. Could be VA, could be FL, could be somewhere cheap where you have no ties, but it should be near an international airport. Once you pick that spot, that is where I would store my remaining possessions. Plan for dealing with the worst, like “Hi Mr and Mrs Artgerst our facility had a flood and earthquake and we need you to disposition your items as soon as possible”. Get your physicians lined up with a plan for care and inform them of your plans: what are you doing about prescriptions? Annual dentist/physical (plus colonoscopy and other fun stuff) and pap/mammogram/ etc? Plan to be back once a year to get those appointments in!

Sounds like a blast and good luck :sharebeer
It kinda seems to me that the FL residence thing would be a concern for a tax audit unless one physically moved there for at least some time and did what is necessary to establish FL residency. Is the family member living there paying rent or just staying there? Is it feasible that you could actually live there at the same time (have enough bedrooms) should that be audited? I guess I'd feel differently if you sold your VA house, moved the family member out of the Fl residence and moved yourself into the Fl residence establishing new healthcare providers, etc. Do this for at least 6 months, then allow the family member to move back in to stay/watch your place.
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artgerst
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by artgerst »

Thanks for all of the great feedback! Thank you for the website suggestions. I'm looking into all of them.

A few followups to the comments:
- Even if we ended up in the same area in Virginia we wouldn't want the same house (need something smaller). I don't really look at moving in two years in and out of a house as a big negative. Yes, moving is the worst, but I hope by moving we really get down to the main things we need...sort of a cleansing.
- When we travel we would always use furnished AirBnbs, short-term leases, or similar for 2-5 months.
- As for storage units, I read so much about people who have had bad experiences or know of others with bad experiences. I'm really counting on using a storage unit (security for the place and individual storage unit, climate control, etc). Although we won't have anything valuable to others in there it will be things like the kid's old projects and toys to pass down. Of course, I don't want anything to happen to those things, but I don't really want to ask friends to store things and of course, something could happen to their property. If you have specific recommendations on storage units I would appreciate those.
- As for taxes, I really doubt I can get away from paying Virginia taxes because I still get income as an owner of a business and I don't think that can ever be excluded from the state the business is in - as far as I understand. The only benefit (I believe) from using Florida as my state of residence would be to pay no taxes on investment income. Anyone with more experience in this area feel free to comment. Because I'm assuming I need to pay Virginia tax anyways, the switching to Florida seems low in terms of priorities.
WhyNotUs
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by WhyNotUs »

Why bother worrying about state of residence now. Once your house has sold, stuff in stored and you are on the road for 6-8 months you will know whether you want to keep wandering, have a landing pad, or find a new nest. We learn about our preferences when we try something different.
Hopefully you can get down to a very small storage as the replacement value of non-keepsakes is quickly eaten up by storage/moving fees and there is a good chance that you will not want them due to either being on the road or downsizing in another area.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
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artgerst
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by artgerst »

WhyNotUs wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:57 pm Why bother worrying about state of residence now. Once your house has sold, stuff in stored and you are on the road for 6-8 months you will know whether you want to keep wandering, have a landing pad, or find a new nest. We learn about our preferences when we try something different.
Hopefully you can get down to a very small storage as the replacement value of non-keepsakes is quickly eaten up by storage/moving fees and there is a good chance that you will not want them due to either being on the road or downsizing in another area.
Yes, exactly. I feel like we will settle down somewhere in the US between 1-5 years anyways (one year if we hate traveling around) so it's not worth it. I do only want to keep the important things, but concerned about all of these bad stories of storage unit places.
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Caduceus »

If you must store things: climate control is a must, get one that's not as likely to have pest issues (not on the ground floor, general cleanliness of the space), and be very particular about how you store things inside the unit.

I recommend heavy duty plastic bins with good amounts of silica gel inside. Try not to use cardboard to store things as those attract pests, and can cause items stored in them to deteriorate.

Store like items together. Don't store photos with books or with wood, for example, because the off-gassing of the wood from even a year of storage can harm the photographs. Store your most important items on the top of the unit; the stuff on the ground is the first to have issues (water damage, pest damage, crushing, etc.)

If you can create relatively sealed micro-environments with low humidity, you should be good to go for a while. But even a system like that would need to be checked every year or so, so it's not a passive one by any means.

Think about how you would pack the items if your only choice were to place your packed boxes into an absolutely filthy place. That would be the standard of care.
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cockersx3
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by cockersx3 »

One question - how would you handle transportation when in the US? Will you store a car with one of the relatives, or just rent? Probably not an issue for some of the European destinations due to the generally better public transportation infrastructure there, but may be an issue when back in the US.
toomanysidehustles
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by toomanysidehustles »

One of our neighbors did this and actually moved all of their stuff into their 3-car garage, locked it all up, and rented the house (no garage access) for 2500/month for a few years. They ended up coming back, sold the house, most of their stuff and bought a coach with a South Dakota "address" /plates and are somewhere in Arizona last I heard living the dream...

https://www.outdoorsy.com/blog/many-rvs ... nse-plates
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artgerst
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by artgerst »

cockersx3 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:03 pm One question - how would you handle transportation when in the US? Will you store a car with one of the relatives, or just rent? Probably not an issue for some of the European destinations due to the generally better public transportation infrastructure there, but may be an issue when back in the US.
Great question and one I have thought of but frankly haven't researched. I'm open to any suggestions.

We have 2 cars and I was just assuming we'd get rid of one and the other we'd either put in storage or leave at a friend's house (so they can start it up once a month and drive it around). Since we are dealing with different cities in the US (where the family lives) there's actually no good single place to leave it.
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kramer
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by kramer »

artgerst wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:43 am
cockersx3 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:03 pm One question - how would you handle transportation when in the US? Will you store a car with one of the relatives, or just rent? Probably not an issue for some of the European destinations due to the generally better public transportation infrastructure there, but may be an issue when back in the US.
Great question and one I have thought of but frankly haven't researched. I'm open to any suggestions.

We have 2 cars and I was just assuming we'd get rid of one and the other we'd either put in storage or leave at a friend's house (so they can start it up once a month and drive it around). Since we are dealing with different cities in the US (where the family lives) there's actually no good single place to leave it.
I spend less time in the US than you plan to do so my answer definitely may not apply. But after two long stints abroad, I sold my car that was parked in the US, it was just too much hassle to maintain both mechanically and in terms of all the ongoing requirements like insurance, registration, etc., and it was also the last thing that tied me to California, legally speaking. Now I just use Uber/Lyft besides walking. I spent a week in Miami recently and was sightseeing everyday in different parts of the city and I think my total Uber cost was under $150 (including airport pickup/dropoff). When I choose an AirBnb, I always choose a walkable location, it's very important to me. I don't even allow my family to pick me up or drop me off at the airport anymore, even though they always insist, using these apps is just too easy (and they don't have to make a round trip to the airport like my relatives would have to do). Thinking a few years in the future, self-driving cars (both personal and shared transportation) will probably drive costs down and convenience up in this sector.

I suppose you could do a mix of rentals and Uber/Lyft depending on the location and situation.
makingmistakes
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by makingmistakes »

artgerst wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:22 pm I'm sure our friends would be happy to host us for a couple of weeks at a time.
I’m envious. I have no friends who would be happy to host me for a couple of weeks at a time. And vice versa. 😄
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lthenderson
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by lthenderson »

artgerst wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:51 pm If you have specific recommendations on storage units I would appreciate those.
Caduceus wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:33 pm If you must store things: climate control is a must, get one that's not as likely to have pest issues (not on the ground floor, general cleanliness of the space), and be very particular about how you store things inside the unit.

I recommend heavy duty plastic bins with good amounts of silica gel inside. Try not to use cardboard to store things as those attract pests, and can cause items stored in them to deteriorate.

Store like items together. Don't store photos with books or with wood, for example, because the off-gassing of the wood from even a year of storage can harm the photographs. Store your most important items on the top of the unit; the stuff on the ground is the first to have issues (water damage, pest damage, crushing, etc.)

If you can create relatively sealed micro-environments with low humidity, you should be good to go for a while. But even a system like that would need to be checked every year or so, so it's not a passive one by any means.

Think about how you would pack the items if your only choice were to place your packed boxes into an absolutely filthy place. That would be the standard of care.
+1 on the above advice. The only thing I would add is to check the seal on the doors to the floor as well as the perimeter walls. Make sure it seals well and that can limit your exposure to pests and rodents. I also recommend that everything is set up off the floor just a bit. I've seen many ruined lockers due to water leaks that flooded the hallways and seeped into lockers under the doors.
supalong52
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by supalong52 »

I think you should do it too. We did some long term travel a few years ago and put all of our things into storage. Seems like you need to downsize anyway so good time for that. You might find yourself getting fatigued after a little while of wandering as we did.
Random Poster
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Random Poster »

artgerst wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:43 am
cockersx3 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:03 pm One question - how would you handle transportation when in the US? Will you store a car with one of the relatives, or just rent? Probably not an issue for some of the European destinations due to the generally better public transportation infrastructure there, but may be an issue when back in the US.
Great question and one I have thought of but frankly haven't researched. I'm open to any suggestions.

We have 2 cars and I was just assuming we'd get rid of one and the other we'd either put in storage or leave at a friend's house (so they can start it up once a month and drive it around). Since we are dealing with different cities in the US (where the family lives) there's actually no good single place to leave it.
Make your home base somewhere in the US that doesn’t require a car?

NYC, D.C, Chicago, and parts of Atlanta, Denver, maybe Dallas or Houston, and I guess Los Angeles, Seattle, and San Francisco come to mind.
reader79
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by reader79 »

You're not crazy! Do it. We downsized dramatically, moved to Florida (we rent a home that is 5 minutes from the water), and have zero regrets. We probably will never own a home again. It is an awful investment, and we derive no pleasure from it. You would likely get a lot of value by visiting the Millenial Revolution blog (don't get turned off by the name; they are early retirees who live nomadically, who also wrote the book Quit Like a Millionaire) and the YouTube channel Go With Less (an early retired couple who live nomadically).
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Ependytis
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by Ependytis »

Food for thought, I think staying with friends or relatives for a couple of weeks might be difficult. They say having guests is like seafood, it’s good for a couple days but after that it’s not so good. If you’re willing to rent an apartment, then I assume it would be no issue for you to stay in a long-term residence hotel like Extended Stay America. Good luck on your adventures.
fourwheelcycle
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Re: Want to be a nomad but not sure about keeping a house

Post by fourwheelcycle »

You are not crazy - go for it. Lots of college age kids, including my sister and our son, take a year off to travel around Europe, so why can't retirees do the same. If you don't enjoy it you can always re-establish your retirement life with a permanent, or seasonal, residence.

I have a friend who retired at 55. He and his wife sold their house to their son with an agreement that they would retain free-rental rights to the carriage house apartment over their (son's) garage. They already owned a fifth wheel trailer setup and mobile home lots on the Maine and Florida coasts. Each year in mid-January, my friend and his wife head out from their New England apartment and drive to their lot in Florida for a long spring vacation. In early June they head out across the US with no set itinerary for a summer vacation to Santa Fe, the Grand Canyon, or wherever they want to go. By early September they arrive at their Maine coast lot for a fall vacation. In early November they head back to their apartment to be with friends and family for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and a little winter skiing or snowshoeing. They say they have a great life.
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