Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

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Topic Author
Calico
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:04 pm
Calico wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:41 pm If the car can be fixed, I think she will fix it because she's told me that (people suggested that too). But I strongly think the insurance company will total it not because there is a lot of damage, but because the car is so old and not worth much according to KBB. She also has a $50 deductible, so the insurance company will pretty much be paying for everything. My brother and I think she should have something safer and more reliable than a 15-year-old Buick that seems to keep having minor problems.
There may be a considerable difference in cost between making the car minimally drivable for a year or two and fixing it. You get the same amount from insurance no matter what you choose to do. Maybe in year or two the pandemic will have subsided and car shopping won't be as unpleasant as it is now. Plus just statistically, what are the odds of needing those new safety features now? I drove 6000 miles last year between January and March. Since the pandemic hit in March: about 500 miles.
Wouldn't she have to deal with a salvage title then and not being able to insure the car? She does a lot of driving, more than me actually. Even with the pandemic, due to the distances she has to drive for doctors appointments and grocery shopping, she drives about 10,000 miles a year. She's put 180K on the car in 15 years, so that sounds about right. She has no reduction in driving because she still has medical appointments and still needs to shop and those things are a good, long trip from where she lives.

Maybe I am an an odd duck, but I liked the pandemic car shopping a lot. I got to test drive everything alone, without a sales person yapping at me which allowed me to listen to the engine and road noise. It allowed me to drive where I wanted to drive and test things I wanted to test. When I did my test driving before buying my new car a little while ago, I went to an "auto mall" place that had all the dealers I wanted to visit and I took each car on the exact same test drive in the same afternoon. It made it very easy to compare everything and focus. It was also nice being able to pull off into a grocery store parking lot and carefully look at the car without someone trying to point out all the features/make a sale.
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tibbitts
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by tibbitts »

Calico wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:34 pm Maybe I am an an odd duck, but I liked the pandemic car shopping a lot. I got to test drive everything alone, without a sales person yapping at me which allowed me to listen to the engine and road noise. It allowed me to drive where I wanted to drive and test things I wanted to test. When I did my test driving before buying my new car a little while ago, I went to an "auto mall" place that had all the dealers I wanted to visit and I took each car on the exact same test drive in the same afternoon. It made it very easy to compare everything and focus. It was also nice being able to pull off into a grocery store parking lot and carefully look at the car without someone trying to point out all the features/make a sale.
My pandemic car shopping experience was unmasked salespeople breathing all over me inside the car. As with before the pandemic, some dealers allowed test driving alone, most didn't. Of five dealers I went to one allowed test driving without the salesperson. I gave up but guess there's not much lost since it will probably be 2022 before it will be practical to drive much anyway.
tibbitts
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by tibbitts »

Calico wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:34 pm Wouldn't she have to deal with a salvage title then and not being able to insure the car?
Sorry, I hadn't thought of that. I'm thinking of some cars I've owner where just a dent along one side - a few body panels - would cost more to repair "properly" than the value of the car. The car might have been just as mechanically sound after the cosmetic damage as before. I guess in theory you could get a rebuilt title - even without doing any work to the car at all - but you're right, that might be too much trouble.

I have a 16-year-old GM car too, probably similar to the Buick in question. I was intending to trade it in last Spring, before the pandemic hit. But it worked out for the best that I didn't, since it's mostly just sat in the garage since then. If it sustained some minor cosmetic-only damage and was considered "totaled", I'd be annoyed.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by 6miths »

Eyesight is an excellent system. We bought an Impreza 18 months ago and have enjoyed it and as a bonus the kids have backed into or bumped into absolutely nothing in it which is fabulous. DW liked the CrossTrek more and I would have gone for it but it was $2500 more for pretty much the same vehicle. Possibly a CrossTrek or Outback when time for the Odyssey to shuffle off.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
Topic Author
Calico
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:28 pm
Calico wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:34 pm Maybe I am an an odd duck, but I liked the pandemic car shopping a lot. I got to test drive everything alone, without a sales person yapping at me which allowed me to listen to the engine and road noise. It allowed me to drive where I wanted to drive and test things I wanted to test. When I did my test driving before buying my new car a little while ago, I went to an "auto mall" place that had all the dealers I wanted to visit and I took each car on the exact same test drive in the same afternoon. It made it very easy to compare everything and focus. It was also nice being able to pull off into a grocery store parking lot and carefully look at the car without someone trying to point out all the features/make a sale.
My pandemic car shopping experience was unmasked salespeople breathing all over me inside the car. As with before the pandemic, some dealers allowed test driving alone, most didn't. Of five dealers I went to one allowed test driving without the salesperson. I gave up but guess there's not much lost since it will probably be 2022 before it will be practical to drive much anyway.
Yeah, I could see where that would be a pain. They did things differently around me and I kind of prefer it to the old way of buying cars. If I had to put up with what you did, I probably wouldn't have bothered buying a car.
I am a mere Boglehead apprentice... even after all these years.
GG1273
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by GG1273 »

One suggestion besides driving it is to consider the overall size of the car. I see so many people in huge SUVs and have a difficult time with driving them.
Others mentioned renting something which is helpful with a real feel for the car/suv.

My Mom is 82 and she gave up her Manual Mazda 3 (she kept her manual Miata) and got a Honda HRV-EX Automatic. Plenty big enough for one.

My late FIL always loved his LaSabre! Light tan exterior.
SavinMaven
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by SavinMaven »

Far more important than what kind of car is a driver safety eval. If her reflexes are slowing, in the next crash she could kill herself, or someone else. Just like we spend our first 16 years of life unable to drive safely, most of us have a period of years as elders when we just can't do it anymore. Physical and occupational therapists can complete a driver safety eval, testing reflexes, strength, and coordination, and either her state DMV or auto insurance company may require it to keep her license - you may get that notice in the mail as late as 90 days after the accident.
Freetime76
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Freetime76 »

This is a helpful discussion for us.

My mom is a similar age and petite. FW drive only for her. Her sister has an Outback, and it is too big. Mom is a sedan person, but more like an Accord.

- Being able to see out was a key factor, and we could never tell until she sat in the actual car and fiddled with the seat.
- Some cars had higher sides (and less glass, effectively), which she didn’t care for.
- We vetoed any car where the screen stuck up from or dominated the dash
- Seat comfort is a big deal and very personal - sit in a few and see what she thinks.

Also, I noticed her dealer mechanic (must have) adjusted her brakes. Those things are set on a hair trigger. Since her foot pressure on the pedal is like a feather, this is a helpful feature. (I had the same model car, and it had “normal” brakes.)

Nobody has mentioned it, so I will: we have a Volkswagen Golf station wagon. The Jetta version was similar. It is not too big, easy to drive, and not too much tech. I find the features to be intuitive, meaning I don’t fumble for wipers/lights/radio settings. I also like the High heated seat setting is toasty and stays on constantly. It’s the little things :wink:
Please spell out new acronyms. Thank you.
OldBallCoach
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by OldBallCoach »

Buy her the best Buick you can find...its YOUR MOTHER...someday you will remember fondly the day you rolled in with that nice new Buick...I had one as a rental few weeks ago...nice car...
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Calico
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

OldBallCoach wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:19 pm Buy her the best Buick you can find...its YOUR MOTHER...someday you will remember fondly the day you rolled in with that nice new Buick...I had one as a rental few weeks ago...nice car...
I don't make enough money to buy her a car. I am a single mom, with a firmly middle class income, living in a HCOLA. I wish I could afford to buy her a car! She has more money than I do anyway so she will be buying it. I am just trying to giver her some options. Buick is on her list.

Speaking of which, her list is now:

Buick Encore GX, AWD Essence trim
Subaru Forester limited trim
Subaru Crosstrek limited trim

I took her test driving today at the Subaru dealership near my house (she's over visiting). She drove my Crosstrek there and while there she drove an Outback and Forester. She didn't like the Outback at all. All the heating, seat heater, etc controls were though a touch screen. I've been letting her drive my car around and she likes that the Crosstrek has buttons and knobs for commonly used things. She liked the Forester a lot, but she's balking at the price. She wants to spend under $30K so she keeps saying she likes my car because she knows I got it for $28K out the door. I think the extra $3K the Forester costs would be worth it for her to have push button parking break, the trunk that opens and closes with the touch of a button, and the better visibility (she commented on it and liked it). And she doesn't have the parking issues I have where she lives, she has space. So the slightly bigger size isn't a negative for her like it is for me. I asked her, hypothetically, if both the Crosstrek and Forester were the exact same price, which one would she get. She picked Forester.

She's going to test drive the Buick with my brother later this week.

I tried to get her to look into other cars too. She sort of looked at a few Fords and Volvos online. She decided the Volvos were too expensive and the Fords she liked weren't highly rated or reviewed. I tried to get her to look at Toyota and Honda, but she said she didn't want more cars on her list and she was done considering other cars. She won't even consider Kia or Hyundai. So that list above is it.

I learned more about why she had the accident as well. She is visiting me and talked more about things over dinner the past two nights. She admitted to me that she was cold and she was looking down at the heater in her car trying to fiddle with it to get it to work (evidentiality there is a loose wire and fiddling with it gets it to work). That's why she didn't stop in time... pretty much distracted driving playing with the heater. By the time she looked up and applied the brakes, it was too late as the driver in front of her was slamming on their brakes too. That's also what she got a ticket for too, inattentive driving.
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Freetime76
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Freetime76 »

Yep, time for a new car, where she doesn’t have to jiggle a wire to get the heater to work :happy (sounds like something my dad would do - proudly tell me how to get his car to cooperate by listing 5 “quirks” and what to do about it).

The Buick sounds nice. We would avoid the touch screen, but that’s my mom and I. Too many issues with getting in the wrong menu, can’t see the screen with sunglasses on or a glare... and buttons/knobs just make more sense to her (no thinking required, it’s automatic). Of course, that’s what I chose for myself, too. Maybe we just like the dark ages :wink:
Please spell out new acronyms. Thank you.
megabad
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by megabad »

Calico wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:24 pm her list is now:

Buick Encore GX, AWD Essence trim
Subaru Forester limited trim
Subaru Crosstrek limited trim

I think the extra $3K the Forester costs would be worth it for her to have push button parking break, the trunk that opens and closes with the touch of a button, and the better visibility (she commented on it and liked it). And she doesn't have the parking issues I have where she lives, she has space. So the slightly bigger size isn't a negative for her like it is for me. I asked her, hypothetically, if both the Crosstrek and Forester were the exact same price, which one would she get. She picked Forester.
Can’t go wrong with a Forester in my opinion. Not my cup of tea but a good reliable vehicle there. Unfortunately I think you just barely missed the opportunity to get one under 30k since the model year is now pretty much completely changed over.

All of these vehicles are smaller footprint than mid sized cars so I don’t think any of the sizes should be a concern as you said. Just out of curiosity, why did she think visibility was better in the Forester? I didn’t notice this when I test drove and there isn’t much difference in height, so maybe it is just designed with a better windshield? I thought both the cross trek and forester had very good similar visibility personally but these were 2019s I think. Both decent cars though I think.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by JoeRetire »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:28 pm My pandemic car shopping experience was unmasked salespeople breathing all over me inside the car.
Why did you put up with it?
I gave up but guess there's not much lost since it will probably be 2022 before it will be practical to drive much anyway.
I don't understand this.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by JoeRetire »

Calico wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:24 pm Speaking of which, her list is now:

Buick Encore GX, AWD Essence trim
Subaru Forester limited trim
Subaru Crosstrek limited trim
I don't know anything about the Buick, but the others are both solid choices.
I asked her, hypothetically, if both the Crosstrek and Forester were the exact same price, which one would she get. She picked Forester.
Are finances really that tight for her that the price difference is significant?

Are there specific features that make the Limited much more appealing than the Premium?
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Calico
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

megabad wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:39 am
Calico wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:24 pm her list is now:

Buick Encore GX, AWD Essence trim
Subaru Forester limited trim
Subaru Crosstrek limited trim

I think the extra $3K the Forester costs would be worth it for her to have push button parking break, the trunk that opens and closes with the touch of a button, and the better visibility (she commented on it and liked it). And she doesn't have the parking issues I have where she lives, she has space. So the slightly bigger size isn't a negative for her like it is for me. I asked her, hypothetically, if both the Crosstrek and Forester were the exact same price, which one would she get. She picked Forester.
Can’t go wrong with a Forester in my opinion. Not my cup of tea but a good reliable vehicle there. Unfortunately I think you just barely missed the opportunity to get one under 30k since the model year is now pretty much completely changed over.

All of these vehicles are smaller footprint than mid sized cars so I don’t think any of the sizes should be a concern as you said. Just out of curiosity, why did she think visibility was better in the Forester? I didn’t notice this when I test drove and there isn’t much difference in height, so maybe it is just designed with a better windshield? I thought both the cross trek and forester had very good similar visibility personally but these were 2019s I think. Both decent cars though I think.
The reason she though visibility was better is because the Forester had a lot of big windows, including the rear window. There were also no beams in the way, blocking vision. I think the shape of the hood also gives a feeling a a bigger front windshield, but I think that maybe an illusion.

Yeah, if she goes Forester it will be slightly over $30K I think. It looks like they are priced around $34-$35K with the options she wants. I haggled my Crosstrek down from $32K to $27K (ended up being $28K our the door). Even if I did the same for her, it would put things at $30K or so.
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Calico
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:17 am
Calico wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:24 pm Speaking of which, her list is now:

Buick Encore GX, AWD Essence trim
Subaru Forester limited trim
Subaru Crosstrek limited trim
I don't know anything about the Buick, but the others are both solid choices.
I asked her, hypothetically, if both the Crosstrek and Forester were the exact same price, which one would she get. She picked Forester.
Are finances really that tight for her that the price difference is significant?

Are there specific features that make the Limited much more appealing than the Premium?
I don't think her finances are that tight. Her problem is she sold her house and is building a new house and she's afraid to spend any of her cash money on anything other than the house. She's kind of fixated on that.

I thought of a spot gap solution so she can hold off on buying a car until the house is done, since that's her big hangup. When I got a new car last month, I didn't sell my old one. I gave my old Vibe to my high school daughter. I can lend my mom my daughter's car for a month or so, until the house is done. It's a good car and still runs well. The heater even works without having to jiggle buttons. I don't think my daughter will mind because she's still virtual for school and there is nowhere to drive to. She'd probably have it back in a month, after the house is finished. And if she does mind, I will reminder her who pays the insurance, haha!
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likegarden
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by likegarden »

I am 81, wife is 76. We notice that as we get older, we like to have more space, drive full-size cars therefore. Full size cars have more metal which protects more in an accident, we had no accidents though. The engines are of good size, so we can respond tp traffic situations faster. We also like our electrically adjustable front seats. I have arthritis and like to adjust my driver seat to be the most comfortable. A full-size trunk is also a must, because we do not like to go shopping often.

My wife drives a Toyota Camry, I a Chevy Malibu. They cost new around $26 K each new.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by fsrph »

Did you consider the Forester in the Premium trim level? Wouldn't this place the Forester near the price of your Crosstrek? For a few less items than in the Limited trim, your Mom could still have all the Subaru safety features, easy in and out, and a fabulous vehicle at your price point.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie
OldBallCoach
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by OldBallCoach »

Calico wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:24 pm
OldBallCoach wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:19 pm Buy her the best Buick you can find...its YOUR MOTHER...someday you will remember fondly the day you rolled in with that nice new Buick...I had one as a rental few weeks ago...nice car...
I don't make enough money to buy her a car. I am a single mom, with a firmly middle class income, living in a HCOLA. I wish I could afford to buy her a car! She has more money than I do anyway so she will be buying it. I am just trying to giver her some options. Buick is on her list.

Speaking of which, her list is now:

Buick Encore GX, AWD Essence trim
Subaru Forester limited trim
Subaru Crosstrek limited trim

I took her test driving today at the Subaru dealership near my house (she's over visiting). She drove my Crosstrek there and while there she drove an Outback and Forester. She didn't like the Outback at all. All the heating, seat heater, etc controls were though a touch screen. I've been letting her drive my car around and she likes that the Crosstrek has buttons and knobs for commonly used things. She liked the Forester a lot, but she's balking at the price. She wants to spend under $30K so she keeps saying she likes my car because she knows I got it for $28K out the door. I think the extra $3K the Forester costs would be worth it for her to have push button parking break, the trunk that opens and closes with the touch of a button, and the better visibility (she commented on it and liked it). And she doesn't have the parking issues I have where she lives, she has space. So the slightly bigger size isn't a negative for her like it is for me. I asked her, hypothetically, if both the Crosstrek and Forester were the exact same price, which one would she get. She picked Forester.

She's going to test drive the Buick with my brother later this week.

I tried to get her to look into other cars too. She sort of looked at a few Fords and Volvos online. She decided the Volvos were too expensive and the Fords she liked weren't highly rated or reviewed. I tried to get her to look at Toyota and Honda, but she said she didn't want more cars on her list and she was done considering other cars. She won't even consider Kia or Hyundai. So that list above is it.

I learned more about why she had the accident as well. She is visiting me and talked more about things over dinner the past two nights. She admitted to me that she was cold and she was looking down at the heater in her car trying to fiddle with it to get it to work (evidentiality there is a loose wire and fiddling with it gets it to work). That's why she didn't stop in time... pretty much distracted driving playing with the heater. By the time she looked up and applied the brakes, it was too late as the driver in front of her was slamming on their brakes too. That's also what she got a ticket for too, inattentive driving.
My bad on the call...but if your Mom wants the Buick I get it...I have a few friends that grew up in the US auto plants and they will not buy a " Damn import" car...I get it...I am glad your mom is ok and looking forward to a new hassle free car....your a good daughter for trying to help her get a safe and reliable ride.
02nz
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by 02nz »

megabad wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:39 am Can’t go wrong with a Forester in my opinion. Not my cup of tea but a good reliable vehicle there. Unfortunately I think you just barely missed the opportunity to get one under 30k since the model year is now pretty much completely changed over.
The 2021 Forester Premium with the option package (blind spot monitoring, rear cross traffic alert, power liftgate) is just under $30K MSRP. With dealer discounts it should be possible to get OTD right around $30K.
02nz
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by 02nz »

OldBallCoach wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:06 am My bad on the call...but if your Mom wants the Buick I get it...I have a few friends that grew up in the US auto plants and they will not buy a " Damn import" car...I get it...
Will those friends buy a Chinese car? That's where the Encore GX on OP's list is made. (FWIW it looks good to me and I wouldn't have a problem buying it.)
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Calico
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

fsrph wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:57 am Did you consider the Forester in the Premium trim level? Wouldn't this place the Forester near the price of your Crosstrek? For a few less items than in the Limited trim, your Mom could still have all the Subaru safety features, easy in and out, and a fabulous vehicle at your price point.

Francis
It's a good idea and I did have her look at the premium levels, but she wants leather seats because they are easier to slide in and out of with her bad knee and arthritis. She says she "sticks" to cloth and it makes it harder to get in and out.
I am a mere Boglehead apprentice... even after all these years.
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Calico
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

OldBallCoach wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:06 am
Calico wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:24 pm
OldBallCoach wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:19 pm Buy her the best Buick you can find...its YOUR MOTHER...someday you will remember fondly the day you rolled in with that nice new Buick...I had one as a rental few weeks ago...nice car...
I don't make enough money to buy her a car. I am a single mom, with a firmly middle class income, living in a HCOLA. I wish I could afford to buy her a car! She has more money than I do anyway so she will be buying it. I am just trying to giver her some options. Buick is on her list.

Speaking of which, her list is now:

Buick Encore GX, AWD Essence trim
Subaru Forester limited trim
Subaru Crosstrek limited trim

I took her test driving today at the Subaru dealership near my house (she's over visiting). She drove my Crosstrek there and while there she drove an Outback and Forester. She didn't like the Outback at all. All the heating, seat heater, etc controls were though a touch screen. I've been letting her drive my car around and she likes that the Crosstrek has buttons and knobs for commonly used things. She liked the Forester a lot, but she's balking at the price. She wants to spend under $30K so she keeps saying she likes my car because she knows I got it for $28K out the door. I think the extra $3K the Forester costs would be worth it for her to have push button parking break, the trunk that opens and closes with the touch of a button, and the better visibility (she commented on it and liked it). And she doesn't have the parking issues I have where she lives, she has space. So the slightly bigger size isn't a negative for her like it is for me. I asked her, hypothetically, if both the Crosstrek and Forester were the exact same price, which one would she get. She picked Forester.

She's going to test drive the Buick with my brother later this week.

I tried to get her to look into other cars too. She sort of looked at a few Fords and Volvos online. She decided the Volvos were too expensive and the Fords she liked weren't highly rated or reviewed. I tried to get her to look at Toyota and Honda, but she said she didn't want more cars on her list and she was done considering other cars. She won't even consider Kia or Hyundai. So that list above is it.

I learned more about why she had the accident as well. She is visiting me and talked more about things over dinner the past two nights. She admitted to me that she was cold and she was looking down at the heater in her car trying to fiddle with it to get it to work (evidentiality there is a loose wire and fiddling with it gets it to work). That's why she didn't stop in time... pretty much distracted driving playing with the heater. By the time she looked up and applied the brakes, it was too late as the driver in front of her was slamming on their brakes too. That's also what she got a ticket for too, inattentive driving.
My bad on the call...but if your Mom wants the Buick I get it...I have a few friends that grew up in the US auto plants and they will not buy a " Damn import" car...I get it...I am glad your mom is ok and looking forward to a new hassle free car....your a good daughter for trying to help her get a safe and reliable ride.
No worries. I realize a lot of people on this forum are pretty wealthy (net worth over a million). That's why I seek advice here (but I am not quiet there myself). :sharebeer

She will get what she wants, no worries about that either. I just think it's smart to at least consider other options. I found a dealership with four Buicks the trim level she wants. My brother is going to take her there this weekend to test drive. I let my mom know not to let the higher price tag of the Buicks worry her too much. I am sure they can be haggled down to the Subaru levels, American car manufactures tend to "over pad" their MSRP pricing.

And mom and my brother said they are going to put me in charge in haggling. I like haggling and neither of them do. As soon as I have a make and model, I plan to start contacting at least 10-12 dealerships and let them start bidding against each other.
I am a mere Boglehead apprentice... even after all these years.
fsrph
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by fsrph »

Calico wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:26 am
fsrph wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:57 am Did you consider the Forester in the Premium trim level? Wouldn't this place the Forester near the price of your Crosstrek? For a few less items than in the Limited trim, your Mom could still have all the Subaru safety features, easy in and out, and a fabulous vehicle at your price point.

Francis
It's a good idea and I did have her look at the premium levels, but she wants leather seats because they are easier to slide in and out of with her bad knee and arthritis. She says she "sticks" to cloth and it makes it harder to get in and out.
Fair enough, she should get what she wants. When I bought my Subaru, I used https://www.fitzmall.com to get their no haggle best price. Then I shopped the local dealers with that info. They're a huge dealership on the East coast and will give you their best price over the internet. For some car brands they will give you their best price instantly other brands require an email form. Doesn't matter if you don't live near them, you just want their best price info (altho they will ship the car to you also). I see where they have Buick's as well as Subaru's.

Francis
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by nigel_ht »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:32 am Don't overthink this. She wants a GM car, and GM makes a couple of Buick models that meet her needs. Why waste a lot of time trying to convince her to buy something else? (And ignore all the bogleheadish advice about buying used. This is your 70+ year old mom, for pete's sake.)
+1
fatherjames
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by fatherjames »

My mid-70's in-laws have the Encore and love it. The mother-in-law uses a walker and can get in/out of it fine and likes the comfort once inside.

My 90 year old parents just got the Forester and love it as well.

Both cars have all the latest accident avoidance tech and that has been utilized successfully already. So worth the extra cost for sure.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by btenny »

If your Mom wants the Buick you really should go look at slightly used cars. GM cars depreciate FAST. Here is a 2020 used Buick Encore Essence with 9.8K miles. It is priced at $22K from Carvana. I am sure there are lots of other slightly used Buicks.

https://www.carvana.com/cars/buick-encore/essence
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by tibbitts »

nigel_ht wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:51 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:32 am Don't overthink this. She wants a GM car, and GM makes a couple of Buick models that meet her needs. Why waste a lot of time trying to convince her to buy something else? (And ignore all the bogleheadish advice about buying used. This is your 70+ year old mom, for pete's sake.)
+1
I disagree with this. My mom didn't feel comfortable spending a huge amount on a car, and was glad that I found a fairly low-mileage (well, 29k) year-old ex-rental car that had the features she wanted. She bought it from a new-car dealer as certified so it came with an additional warranty included. It was a domestic car and priced far lower than a similar new car.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by GG1273 »

Looked up our local Subaru dealer, a few 2021 Foresters just under $30K - they are listed as Premium. There is one Base model at $26K

Buick - GMC Encore 2020 sale prices on line: FWD $21K, AWD, listed as Preferred $23-24K new. A 2019 used with under 11,000 miles for $18K

Good Luck!
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Calico
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

GG1273 wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:11 pm Looked up our local Subaru dealer, a few 2021 Foresters just under $30K - they are listed as Premium. There is one Base model at $26K

Buick - GMC Encore 2020 sale prices on line: FWD $21K, AWD, listed as Preferred $23-24K new. A 2019 used with under 11,000 miles for $18K

Good Luck!
Thanks. One things to point out, that I really didn't do before, is that Buick has two totally different cars named "Encore." There is the old Encore (which is the cheaper CUV) and the new Encore GX (which is a little nicer and is priced higher). It's not even that the GX is a different trim or something, it's a completely different vehicle. She wants the GX. For any cars she really wants leather because it's easier for her to get in and out of--you can slide without having to really twist your body a lot. So that puts her at the top trim levels for both. So that is limited for the Subarus and essence for the Buick. And that puts things at $30Kish again unfortunately.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by ResearchMed »

Calico wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:21 pm
GG1273 wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:11 pm Looked up our local Subaru dealer, a few 2021 Foresters just under $30K - they are listed as Premium. There is one Base model at $26K

Buick - GMC Encore 2020 sale prices on line: FWD $21K, AWD, listed as Preferred $23-24K new. A 2019 used with under 11,000 miles for $18K

Good Luck!
Thanks. One things to point out, that I really didn't do before, is that Buick has two totally different cars named "Encore." There is the old Encore (which is the cheaper CUV) and the new Encore GX (which is a little nicer and is priced higher). It's not even that the GX is a different trim or something, it's a completely different vehicle. She wants the GX. For any cars she really wants leather because it's easier for her to get in and out of--you can slide without having to really twist your body a lot. So that puts her at the top trim levels for both. So that is limited for the Subarus and essence for the Buick. And that puts things at $30Kish again unfortunately.
On the off chance that she could find "the right car" (or "a right car") that is less expensive, are there ways to get a *good* leather (real or faux) seat covering for the driver? (I'm not talking about something cheap that will move around, etc., but a proper seat covering, more like real upholstery...?)

If so, how does the cost of that compare to the 'extra' cost of a higher trim level that wouldn't have been needed, etc.?

RM
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

ResearchMed wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:30 pm
Calico wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:21 pm
GG1273 wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:11 pm Looked up our local Subaru dealer, a few 2021 Foresters just under $30K - they are listed as Premium. There is one Base model at $26K

Buick - GMC Encore 2020 sale prices on line: FWD $21K, AWD, listed as Preferred $23-24K new. A 2019 used with under 11,000 miles for $18K

Good Luck!
Thanks. One things to point out, that I really didn't do before, is that Buick has two totally different cars named "Encore." There is the old Encore (which is the cheaper CUV) and the new Encore GX (which is a little nicer and is priced higher). It's not even that the GX is a different trim or something, it's a completely different vehicle. She wants the GX. For any cars she really wants leather because it's easier for her to get in and out of--you can slide without having to really twist your body a lot. So that puts her at the top trim levels for both. So that is limited for the Subarus and essence for the Buick. And that puts things at $30Kish again unfortunately.
On the off chance that she could find "the right car" (or "a right car") that is less expensive, are there ways to get a *good* leather (real or faux) seat covering for the driver? (I'm not talking about something cheap that will move around, etc., but a proper seat covering, more like real upholstery...?)

If so, how does the cost of that compare to the 'extra' cost of a higher trim level that wouldn't have been needed, etc.?

RM
Good idea... I will look into that!
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hi_there
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by hi_there »

I suppose the irony is that Buick is possibly the least American of all these cars, since they are rebadged Opels that are brought to the US almost as an afterthought. But if she is happy, that's the main thing.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by hnd »

I don't know if this is useful at all or not but my wifes grandmother is 80 and she had been driving 2 chevy celebrity station wagons from the late 80's. they had 2 because when one broke down they had another one to drive while it was being fixed. One is gone but she drove the other one still. Her daughter (my mother in law) and her son in law have offered repeatedly over the past 20 years to replace it and she has refused. well finally they convinced her to get something else.

they found a 100k mile 2010 Cadillac.

well that thing is sitting by the barn with weeds grown up around it. it has too many bells and whistles and she's completely intimidated to drive it. she also is worried shes going to get robbed because people will see her in a Cadillac.

she still drives the celebrity.

this whole thing infuriates my FIL which i always have a great time bringing up to get him all riled up.

so my advice is to keep it simple. I think if they'd got her a base toyota camry or ford focus she'd of been fine. now she is a bit older than your mother so bells and whistles might be fine for yours.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by dbr »

hnd wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:40 pm
well that thing is sitting by the barn with weeds grown up around it. it has too many bells and whistles and she's completely intimidated to drive it. she also is worried shes going to get robbed because people will see her in a Cadillac.

We have experienced the bells and whistles syndrome in our family as well.

As to getting robbed, I know people who have to park in areas where an Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Lexus, or Mercedes would not be a good idea. I doubt that really applies in this thread.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Workaholic »

hi_there wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:35 pm I suppose the irony is that Buick is possibly the least American of all these cars, since they are rebadged Opels that are brought to the US almost as an afterthought. But if she is happy, that's the main thing.
Have you seen the recent Envision and Enclave's? They're actually quite good vehicles and consistently get high remarks in reviews. They definitely aren't an "afterthought" as the sales numbers are good. Quite a few people, even younger, are buying the Enclave for the comfort/space.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by hi_there »

Workaholic wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:05 pm
hi_there wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:35 pm I suppose the irony is that Buick is possibly the least American of all these cars, since they are rebadged Opels that are brought to the US almost as an afterthought. But if she is happy, that's the main thing.
Have you seen the recent Envision and Enclave's? They're actually quite good vehicles and consistently get high remarks in reviews. They definitely aren't an "afterthought" as the sales numbers are good. Quite a few people, even younger, are buying the Enclave for the comfort/space.
I did not say those are bad cars. In fact, earlier in my thread, I stated that I thought Buick made good cars. However, Buick as a brand is not a priority in the US market. 80% of Buick branded cars are sold in China. About the same volume are sold in Europe as Opels. The US market for Buick's is an afterthought - GM decided to import a few thousand and put in minimal marketing effort to keep the badge alive. If they did not conveniently have a suitable line of cars for import, or if they did not think there are some brand loyalists worth marketing to (i.e. OP's mom and similar), they would not bother selling Buicks at all in the US.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Taxapalooza »

My parent's bought both sets of their parents, my grandparents, basic Honda CRVs - the Honda equivalent of Toyota's RAV4. My paternal grandparents drove theirs cross-country several times before they passed. My dad was jointly titled and now my dad has a solid extra family car. My maternal grandparents had an Impala before the CRV and totaled the Impala in a crash on icy roads in nowhere Ohio; they feel much safer in the CRV and it will likely pass to my mom when they pass given the low mileage and quality of the car. CRV fits that middle ground wherein it's still low and small enough they can get in it without assistance and also large enough to make them feel safe (unlike the Impala).
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by lazydavid »

Freetime76 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:11 pm Nobody has mentioned it, so I will: we have a Volkswagen Golf station wagon. The Jetta version was similar. It is not too big, easy to drive, and not too much tech. I find the features to be intuitive, meaning I don’t fumble for wipers/lights/radio settings. I also like the High heated seat setting is toasty and stays on constantly. It’s the little things :wink:
This is a good suggestion, but I'd actually say the Golf Alltrack is a better choice. Not only does it add AWD, it has the higher ride/entry height that is being sought here. Perhaps not quite as high as many CUVs, but more like the Outback/Forester/Crosstrek.

And OP, I know you said (for good reason) that the Encore is out, and IMO it should be. But don't let that dissuade you from looking at the Encore GX, which despite the name is a completely different car, with no current equivalent in the Chevy/GMC lineup. It's slightly smaller than the Encore, and is also built in South Korea.

Edit: I now see you're already looking at the Encore GX. Serves me right for not reading to the end. :mrgreen:
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

lazydavid wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:41 am
Freetime76 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:11 pm Nobody has mentioned it, so I will: we have a Volkswagen Golf station wagon. The Jetta version was similar. It is not too big, easy to drive, and not too much tech. I find the features to be intuitive, meaning I don’t fumble for wipers/lights/radio settings. I also like the High heated seat setting is toasty and stays on constantly. It’s the little things :wink:
This is a good suggestion, but I'd actually say the Golf Alltrack is a better choice. Not only does it add AWD, it has the higher ride/entry height that is being sought here. Perhaps not quite as high as many CUVs, but more like the Outback/Forester/Crosstrek.

And OP, I know you said (for good reason) that the Encore is out, and IMO it should be. But don't let that dissuade you from looking at the Encore GX, which despite the name is a completely different car, with no current equivalent in the Chevy/GMC lineup. It's slightly smaller than the Encore, and is also built in South Korea.

Edit: I now see you're already looking at the Encore GX. Serves me right for not reading to the end. :mrgreen:
In all fairness, I didn't figure that out until later in the thread myself (until another posted pointed it out). Naming two different cars the same name is really confusing. I have no idea why Buick did that.

Funny thing, my mom is back home now and I talked to her on the phone last night. She was mentioned one of the things she hates about the newer cars is they don't have CD players. I pointed out to her that I didn't know about the Buick, but the Forester and Crosstrek still have CD players... I have on in my 2021. She then said, that was it, she was buying a Subaru. haha.

I did tell her that she really should at least test drive the Buick and look at it. You never know, you might like it better and just because I didn't know if they had CD players or not didn't mean they didn't have them at all. It just means I don't know. I really hoped she would test drive 4-5 different vehicles in the same class, we even talked about VW but she she was hung up on the emissions scandal from a few years ago and said she didn't trust VW.

She seems happy to just look at 3 cars so I am not going to push things anymore at this point. I know the two Subies are good, safe, reliable cars and the Buick is her favorite car brand. So at least she's looking at those. I showed her lots of other cars while she was visiting with me, but she's got her mind set that she will get either a Crosstrek, Forester, or Encore GX. When she gets her mind set, there is no changing her mind. She just needs to test drive all of them and pick one now.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by BL »

Sounds like you/she have a good plan now: Try the 3 and choose one. There is no point in adding confusion about other non-issues. Indecision brings more stress than she needs. Let the younger folks worry about minute details that may or may not affect future satisfaction. Sounds like 3 good choices, but any one of them could bring on "buyer's remorse" in the future, no matter the choice.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:32 am Don't overthink this. She wants a GM car, and GM makes a couple of Buick models that meet her needs. Why waste a lot of time trying to convince her to buy something else? (And ignore all the bogleheadish advice about buying used. This is your 70+ year old mom, for pete's sake.)
If my mom was might be her last new car in her 70s, i'd want her to have what she wants, but i would also keep an eye for all the latest automated safety/driving features. (auto braking, lane assist, etc)
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:22 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:32 am Don't overthink this. She wants a GM car, and GM makes a couple of Buick models that meet her needs. Why waste a lot of time trying to convince her to buy something else? (And ignore all the bogleheadish advice about buying used. This is your 70+ year old mom, for pete's sake.)
If my mom was might be her last new car in her 70s, i'd want her to have what she wants, but i would also keep an eye for all the latest automated safety/driving features. (auto braking, lane assist, etc)
That's pretty much what I am trying to do. My dad used to do the car buying when he was alive, my mom had no part in the process so at 70+, she's buying a car on "her own" for the first time. My dad usually, but not always, bought GM cars. But he also worked for GM and he knew the industry and which cars were the best of the GM line-up to buy and which ones to avoid. A lot has changed since my dad died. Including how the GM employee discount works (it's not what it used to be). My mom really liked her current car and since it's a Buick she was just assuming Buick will meet all her needs and she assumed it would be the least expensive option because of the employee discount. But she's learning, by looking at other cars, that maybe it doesn't meet her needs and wants and that other cars might offer more at a lower price. I am not trying to tell her what car to buy so much as help her look at different, good options so she can get the best car for her needs at a good price.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

They totaled the car. The insurance company said the value of the car was $4300 (rounded) and the damages were $3500. There was no structural damage to the car, it's all just bumper and grill stuff, but it added up and the car is old with high miles and not worth much. On the bright side, at least mom will be getting a new, safer, more reliable car.
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by GG1273 »

Terrific getting it down to 3 models

My late father never considered a Subaru or any other "non-american" make and never understood why we got Toyotas (made in america or canada)

Then he got one for the NH winters and LOVED it.

My late FIL would never buy a Ford due to Henry Ford and the assembly line (yes, really). Got a Lincoln MKX late in life and loved it...always drove a Buick or a Chevy prior to that...

Best of luck with the new purchase / test drives!
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by tomd37 »

Some people have a liking for certain car manufacturers - My father-in-law passed in 2000. His favorite manufacturer was the Ford Motor Company and its associated products. He had a Ford, Mercury, or Lincoln product manufactured in '29, '39, '49, '59, '69, '79, and '89. He was still driving the '89 Mercury Sable with 126K miles on it when he passed. I believe he had two Chrysler Corporation products in the form of their 1984 Plymouth K-Car and some type of slightly newer Chrysler product a few years later. Each to his own. :happy
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by GG1273 »

tomd37 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:00 pm Some people have a liking for certain car manufacturers - My father-in-law passed in 2000. His favorite manufacturer was the Ford Motor Company and its associated products. He had a Ford, Mercury, or Lincoln product manufactured in '29, '39, '49, '59, '69, '79, and '89. He was still driving the '89 Mercury Sable with 126K miles on it when he passed. I believe he had two Chrysler Corporation products in the form of their 1984 Plymouth K-Car and some type of slightly newer Chrysler product a few years later. Each to his own. :happy
Yes, my late father had Ford Vans - Econoline ones and a couple of Plymouths - I remember the Plymouth Volare Wagon and a Fury
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by 2tall4economy »

my mom is 73 and loves her Chevy Equinox because of usability, capacity, and ride height / easy to enter and exit. Going strong for 10 years.
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Calico
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by Calico »

Little update. I am glad I introduced mom to cars aside from Buick. I think she is too. She's looked at Subarus and Buicks so far and she doesn't care much for the Buicks in comparison. She hates that all the Buicks have what she calls a "tiny back window" and that they "feel cheap for the price". And it's funny, she's hung up on the fact that Buick doesn't have a CD player in the car where the Subaru does. She's leaning towards the Forester at this point but she's still looking and considering. I told her just let me know what she wants and I am happy to step in and be her negotiator and haggler.

My daughter lent her grandmother her car. So mom has time to look and carefully consider. Of course, now my daughter is driving my new car. I think that was my daughter's plan all along, haha. 8-)
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Re: Car suggestion for 70+ year-old mom

Post by tomd37 »

Calico -
The April 2018 issue of Consumer Reports magazine, page 34 had a very interesting article "Best New Cars for Seniors". Being a senior at age 83 I found the article very informative when I purchased my next car in 2019. The article rated twenty-five cars of various sizes and types for front-seat access, visibility, controls, and headlights.

Front-seat access - Low door sills, wider openings, and good seat and step-in heights that reduces the need for ducking or climbing.
Visibility - We chose cars that enable all drivers to see better out of the front, sides, and back of the vehicle.
Controls - These cars have easy-to-read gauges and intuitive controls.
Headlight performance - High-performing headlights can make driving at night safer and easier for everyone.

The table for the features mentioned above had symbols that represented vehicles that excel for the particular attributes.

It also discussed the availability of forward-collision warning (FCW), automatic emergency braking low speed ability (AEB), and blind-spot warning (BSW).

I used the article when considering my purchase in summer of 2019 and ended up with the car of my choice being a 2019 Subaru Outback Touring trim line with the 3.6R engine. I am extremely pleased with the vehicle and in particular the all-around visibility. The only other item I would have desired was a camera in the front grill area that shows the area immediately in front of the vehicle. That item was included in the 2020 version. Subaru did away with the 3.6R engine in 2020 and went to a turbo option on their 4-cylinder Boxer engine.

Feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions.

Edited to add: Subaru Forester and Outback were rated #1 and #2 respectively.
Last edited by tomd37 on Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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