Can I buy a new tesla?

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Topic Author
cosine
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Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by cosine »

Hello all, I am 35 years old with three small children married and would like some advice on a new car purchase. I very much am into electric cars. I would like to buy a new Tesla model S and would like your advice.

Some basic information from my end. We have about $1.2 million Split between house equity, taxable account, and retirement Accounts and cash. We have about 60 K in cash, about 350 in taxable. We have a minivan currently and a Toyota 4runner which is only five years old and very reliable. My plan will be to trade in the Toyota and purchase a Tesla out right in cash. It starts at $80,000. Income is 350 to 400 and is very reliable. What do you think?
02nz
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by 02nz »

$1.2M in net worth isn't at a level where I'd be comfortable even thinking about $80K cars. (I'm in the same neighborhood and have a hard time thinking about a Model 3 or Y, but to each his/her own.)

That combination of net worth and income also suggest you either only recently started making that level income or have a spending problem. Either way, another strike against buying a $80K car.
squirm
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by squirm »

The real question is do you need it or are you just scratching the Tesla itch?
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anon_investor
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by anon_investor »

Sounds like a terrible idea...
TallBoy29er
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by TallBoy29er »

I think the first response is a bit harsh. You can definitely afford it on your income, without a problem. It's the age old trade off question, right? You can have (reasonably) anything you want, but not everything. It will be a small hit to savings. You are doing very well (far better than me at your age). You need to keep that savings rate up (eg 30%). If you can do that, and the SO is on board, have some fun.
tdmp
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by tdmp »

reliable $350-400K income per year: get whatever car you want (<$150K) IF it makes you happy. sometimes you have to YOLO. but if you get it to keep up with the Joneses, then don't: only you know that.
RJC
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by RJC »

I'm in the market as well and have not considered the S or X because they are basically being replaced by the 3 and Y (newer tech, design, features, etc.).
benderbr
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by benderbr »

You can afford it - go for it! I prefer the 3/Y for their simplicity and better value, but S is a great car.
Tingting1013
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Tingting1013 »

RJC wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:11 pm I'm in the market as well and have not considered the S or X because they are basically being replaced by the 3 and Y (newer tech, design, features, etc.).
The S and X are getting those upgrades too
RJC
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by RJC »

Tingting1013 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:17 pm
RJC wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:11 pm I'm in the market as well and have not considered the S or X because they are basically being replaced by the 3 and Y (newer tech, design, features, etc.).
The S and X are getting those upgrades too
Some but it costs much more and the performance is less (i.e. handling). Does the S have a 1-piece frame like the Y?

The S rides like a big boat compared to the M3.
Normchad
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Normchad »

I wouldn’t do it, for a couple of reasons.

First, the model X has been problematic, so I’d wait until they figure out the doors.
Second, your in good financial shape, but not amazing financial shape.
Third, the longer you wait, the more great EVs will be on the market. Waiting benefits you.

I say this as an extremely happy Tesla owner.
Slacker
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Slacker »

Financially you'll be fine. You really should be asking your spouse, not us.
Topic Author
cosine
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by cosine »

squirm wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:02 pm The real question is do you need it or are you just scratching the Tesla itch?
Definitely don’t need it. I want it!
Topic Author
cosine
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by cosine »

02nz wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:00 pm $1.2M in net worth isn't at a level where I'd be comfortable even thinking about $80K cars. (I'm in the same neighborhood and have a hard time thinking about a Model 3 or Y, but to each his/her own.)

That combination of net worth and income also suggest you either only recently started making that level income or have a spending problem. Either way, another strike against buying a $80K car.
We had about $300,000 worth of student loans which we paid off aggressively the first few years. That’s why the net worth is low. I think you’re spending is pretty reasonable. Thank you for the response
Topic Author
cosine
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by cosine »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:06 pm Sounds like a terrible idea...
Um ok
worthit
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by worthit »

Yes, you can financially.
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cosine
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by cosine »

:confused
Normchad wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:27 pm I wouldn’t do it, for a couple of reasons.

First, the model X has been problematic, so I’d wait until they figure out the doors.
Second, your in good financial shape, but not amazing financial shape.
Third, the longer you wait, the more great EVs will be on the market. Waiting benefits you.

I say this as an extremely happy Tesla owner.
What would you consider to be amazing financial shape?
Litfury
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Litfury »

1.3 million at 35 years old? Buy it, enjoy it. Ok to live a little.
Topic Author
cosine
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by cosine »

Slacker wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:33 pm Financially you'll be fine. You really should be asking your spouse, not us.
She is on board
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Plano
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Plano »

I keep hearing about the proposed restoration and expansion of the EV Tax Credit. See, e.g., https://taxfoundation.org/joe-biden-tax-plan-2020/. If you simply must get an expensive EV, why not would wait a year or two? I would kick myself if I bought one now and the tax credit was restored next year. My son would say, "But delayed gratification is so haaaaard!" But losing out on a $7500 tax credit would be even harder for the typical BH.

Depending on what state you live in, you might also want to take advantage of the incentives for installing a home charging station. If you already have solar, charging at home during off-peak hours is the way to go. Edmunds has a nice summary of the costs. https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/th ... c-car.html The general consensus is tax credits for this will increase as well.
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anon_investor
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by anon_investor »

cosine wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:37 pm
anon_investor wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:06 pm Sounds like a terrible idea...
Um ok
Translation you probably should wait until you have accumulated more. Your income is high but an $80k car is still 6.67% of your current total net worth and 19.5% of your liquid net worth.
Topic Author
cosine
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by cosine »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:43 pm
cosine wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:37 pm
anon_investor wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:06 pm Sounds like a terrible idea...
Um ok
Translation you probably should wait until you have accumulated more. Your income is high but an $80k car is still 6.67% of your current total net worth and 19.5% of your liquid net worth.
Fair enough, thank you for your input.
sailaway
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by sailaway »

Does it fit with your goals?

Will you meet your savings goals for 2021 if you buy this car?

Once you are up and running, everything is a trade off. Only you can decide it this is a use of your resources that will further your goals.
benderbr
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by benderbr »

Litfury wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:39 pm 1.3 million at 35 years old? Buy it, enjoy it. Ok to live a little.
Exactly. Everyone has different values. What's the point in accumulating wealth if it's just numbers on a screen. You're really into electric cars, you can splurge on one as long as you're not remodeling the kitchen and buying vacation property at the same time.
tananaev
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by tananaev »

Where does the reliable income come from? Employment? What makes it so reliable?
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Callisto
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Callisto »

I bought a new 3 at a much, much, much worse financial situation compared to you. Its a terrible financial decision, but as many have said, sometimes there are more important things than just economics. It was a lot more meaningful to me than a car to get your from A to B.

That being said, unless you really want a *new* Tesla, consider a 1-3 year old one, especially if you are considering the base version. The refreshed base version is not significantly different from the older ones, aside from cosmetics. Its only the Plaid models that are significantly improved over past versions.
Normchad
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Normchad »

cosine wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:37 pm :confused
Normchad wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:27 pm I wouldn’t do it, for a couple of reasons.

First, the model X has been problematic, so I’d wait until they figure out the doors.
Second, your in good financial shape, but not amazing financial shape.
Third, the longer you wait, the more great EVs will be on the market. Waiting benefits you.

I say this as an extremely happy Tesla owner.
What would you consider to be amazing financial shape?
For your income, a net worth of $4M at age 40 would be amazing.

If you buy this, you will be fine financially. But honestly, you already have a cool car, so this one won’t really bring you a lot of incremental joy/utility, in my opinion. And a lot of Tesla owners would not want an X anyway, because it is so trouble prone, especially compared to a 4-runner.

It’s cool though no doubt. But if I were in your shoes, I wouldn’t spend that money on it right now. I’d wait. Lots of other cool options are just around the corner, hopefully.
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cosine
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by cosine »

Callisto wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:06 pm I bought a new 3 at a much, much, much worse financial situation compared to you. Its a terrible financial decision, but as many have said, sometimes there are more important things than just economics. It was a lot more meaningful to me than a car to get your from A to B.

That being said, unless you really want a *new* Tesla, consider a 1-3 year old one, especially if you are considering the base version. The refreshed base version is not significantly different from the older ones, aside from cosmetics. Its only the Plaid models that are significantly improved over past versions.
Agreed. I think this is a terrible financial decision. I don’t necessarily think it will hurt me too much in the long run. But it does seem pretty painful to have to spend $80,000 on a car especially since I’ve been living with the bh mentality of the last five years.

I’m having a hard time figuring out whether or not this will actually increase my life satisfaction or not.

The most important things for me are vacations, spending time with family, and working because I want to work not because I have to work. I don’t think purchasing this car will alter any of those.

The most important things for meWorking when I want to be able to work. Also vacations are a big thing for us. We don’t spend money on basically anything else.
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by LadyGeek »

Plano wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:42 pm I keep hearing about the proposed restoration and expansion of the EV Tax Credit. See, e.g., https://taxfoundation.org/joe-biden-tax-plan-2020/. If you simply must get an expensive EV, why not would wait a year or two? I would kick myself if I bought one now and the tax credit was restored next year. My son would say, "But delayed gratification is so haaaaard!" But losing out on a $7500 tax credit would be even harder for the typical BH.

Depending on what state you live in, you might also want to take advantage of the incentives for installing a home charging station. If you already have solar, charging at home during off-peak hours is the way to go. Edmunds has a nice summary of the costs. https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/th ... c-car.html The general consensus is tax credits for this will increase as well.
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by joebruin77 »

As you can tell from the different responses, some say you should hold off, buy a cheaper EV, and save your money. Others have said you can afford it if you want it. Ultimately, that financial decision is up to you. I don't think you are making a horrible mistake if you get it. You are, IMO, in the grey zone and one could make an argument either way.

I have a performance Model 3 and it is the best car I have ever owned. That said, I would never buy a Model X. Because of the problem-prone falcon wing doors, the Model X was rated as one of the least reliable cars by Consumer Reports.

In general, I like the Model S, but Tesla just did a major redesign to the interior. As you are probably aware, they took away the normal steering wheel and put in a formula-1 yoke like steering wheel. I am not sure if I would like it. They also took away the signal stalk and even the gear shifter. The car is supposed to make an intelligent guess about what direction you want to go in. I have to try it before I make a final judgment, but I am not sure I would want to drive a car with a yoke like steering wheel and no stalks for turn signals or gear selection. And even if you do like the redesign, I would never buy a new Tesla right after a major redesign. The first few hundred if not thousand people who get the new Model S will likely deal with lots of bugs. You may want to go for a used Model S to not only save a bit of money but to go with the older, more reliable technology. If you really want the new one, I would wait a year or two so all the bugs are worked out before you get your new Model S.
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by pseudoiterative »

worthit wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:37 pm Yes, you can financially.
I agree. If current assets - current liabilities > cost of new tesla then financially there isn't any obvious obstacle. Even if unable to sell the toyota for some reason, just liquidate part of the taxable portfolio. Exchange cash for car. Done.

Much discussion seems to be answering an entirely different question "should you buy a new tesla?" or "should i buy a new tesla?" or "should a theoretical spherical boglehead 30 years from retirement with a net worth of $50k and $60k annual income buy a new tesla?" which are much more contentious topics.
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by joebruin77 »

Oh, I forgot to add. Make sure you live within a reasonable distance to your local Tesla Service Center. Because the cars are so advanced, you can't go to a local mechanic. I would never buy a Tesla if I lived more than 30-40 min away from the nearest Tesla service center.
anoop
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by anoop »

On the surface, looks like you can easily afford it. But you didn't mention expenses so it's hard to give a definitive answer.
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by angelescrest »

anoop wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:40 pm On the surface, looks like you can easily afford it. But you didn't mention expenses so it's hard to give a definitive answer.
Buy it, and enjoy it. Unless your savings rate is not high, don’t worry about it.
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by iamlucky13 »

Even Dave Ramsey's rule, which is relatively arbitrary and conservative, says you can afford one (total cost of all cars < 50% of annual income).

Personally, I don't really like making decisions like this based strictly on income or current savings. When considering a major expense that is not a necessity, I would prefer to take a bigger picture look at what your budget needs to be - for anticipated future expenses and your target age for financial independence, how much do you need to be saving each year, and does this purchase cause you to miss that target?

The first part of that therefore is making sure you have a decent idea what your long term financial goals are and what is needed to meet them.

For an item with a long usable life like a car, it may be reasonable to treat the expense as spread over multiple years to compare to your budget, but while be honest with yourself about what other major expenditures might overlap the time frame you are using to justify the purchase.

That is how I have approached my own car shopping, and I try to stay conservative with my returns expectations, since those have a big effect on how quickly I reach my target.
pseudoiterative wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:36 pm should a theoretical spherical boglehead 30 years from retirement with a net worth of $50k and $60k annual income buy a new tesla?"
Will they be driving it in a vacuum on a frictionless infinite flat plane? In that case, probably yes, since an ICE car will not function in a vacuum...
alfaspider
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by alfaspider »

Can you? Yes.

Should you? That's very much a personal decision.
The_Junior_Mint
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by The_Junior_Mint »

We're not that far off in stats. I would not be willing to spend $80k on a new car at that NW. I also have the Tesla itch. I've joked around with my wife numerous times when she asks what I want for my birthday... "A Tesla!". It's all in jest, especially since we get very limited utility out of our vehicles now (working from home and all errands are very close in proximity). If anything, I would be willing to buy a Model 3. I tell her maybe several years down the road.

Do you have any other big expenses coming up? A possible move, or college savings? If you have those under control and you will get utility out of the vehicle, I cannot deny that you can afford it regardless of what I said above.
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Lee_WSP
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Lee_WSP »

cosine wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:16 pm
I’m having a hard time figuring out whether or not this will actually increase my life satisfaction or not.
Much poorer people than you make much worse financial choices. You will be fine either way so long as this is your only major splurge.

This is the only thing I'd say to dive deep into. It doesn't sound like the purchase is insignificant so it should bring you proportional utility to the cost.
2pedals
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by 2pedals »

If you have to ask a forum, I would say no. I think it should be obvious to you and your spouse that you can before you do so.
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Jags4186 »

2pedals wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:33 am If you have to ask a forum, I would say no. I think it should be obvious to you and your spouse that you can before you do so.
People come here and complain about things in the $1-$9 range. Coming to a forum for an $80k purchase seems to make sense to me. OP, a Model 3 has the same interior space as a Model S so why not save a few bucks and go that direction?
Jacotus
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Jacotus »

It's clear that you can afford it assuming your income isn't catastrophically affected in the future.

It is good to think about why you want a Tesla as opposed to a different electric car. Is there something specific about the features you want that other brands don't have? Is it the coolness factor? There is no wrong answer here but just something to muse over.
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by angelescrest »

Jags4186 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:40 am
2pedals wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:33 am If you have to ask a forum, I would say no. I think it should be obvious to you and your spouse that you can before you do so.
People come here and complain about things in the $1-$9 range. Coming to a forum for an $80k purchase seems to make sense to me. OP, a Model 3 has the same interior space as a Model S so why not save a few bucks and go that direction?
Agree on both accounts. If you are on the fence due to the cost, why not aim for a Tesla priced more like 50-60k?
Cwise
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Cwise »

Have you looked at the Taycan? I'd get that in your position. We have a short time on this rock - make it enjoyable. :D
michaeljc70
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by michaeljc70 »

I'm amazed at some of the comments that they are not doing that great, they are doing okay, etc. They have $1.2M net worth at age 35! That is more than most Americans will ever have. That is more than some Americans will make in their lifetime!

OP, buy the Tesla if you want it.
esqu1re
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by esqu1re »

Yes you can do it. High income should cover it.
chris319
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by chris319 »

I hate to be a wet blanket, but if you do buy a Tesla, don't let this happen to you:

https://patch.com/california/mountainvi ... d-problems

I know this stretch of highway 101 well and have driven it many times.

As I see it, the driver thought he could just sit back and play video games, as if he were a passenger on a train or airplane, and not pay attention to the operation of his vehicle.

Be careful.
Financial decisions based on emotion often turn out to be bad decisions.
humbledinvestor
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by humbledinvestor »

Income and savings say you can afford it. Get it, enjoy it. YOLO.
Prahasaurus
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by Prahasaurus »

michaeljc70 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:03 am I'm amazed at some of the comments that they are not doing that great, they are doing okay, etc. They have $1.2M net worth at age 35! That is more than most Americans will ever have. That is more than some Americans will make in their lifetime!

OP, buy the Tesla if you want it.
This. Maybe people should step back a bit before they post, have a bit more perspective. They have 1.2 million USD and a steady combined income of 350k per year minimum! So long as this isn't the start of a mega buying spree, they are fine.

Enjoy the car, OP. :sharebeer Just whatever you do, don't get a boat...
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gonefishing01
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by gonefishing01 »

Of course you can afford it. However, I have friends with all makes and models of Teslas going back to the old Lotus chassis roadster. Personally, I’d rather have the paid off 4Runner regardless of NW 8-) But if it’s really your thing, then enjoy!
jarjarM
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Re: Can I buy a new tesla?

Post by jarjarM »

If you enjoy it then buy it. You're not really stretching the finance, don't be the richest guy in the grave yard :beer
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