Showers and Shower faucets
Showers and Shower faucets
Hello all,
We are doing a full home rebuild after a large fire that destroyed most of the residence. We are now at the stage in the rebuild where plumbing rough-ins are going in. So we need to decide on plumbing fixtures for the bathroom. I've been looking at Kohler, Moen and Delta and we'd like to stay below $600 for our bath fixtures (shower/tub), not faucets. We are undecided about whether we want a hand shower or not since the rental we are living in has one and I've never used it (nor do I particularly desire to). If someone can convince me otherwise, I'm willing to listen. So here are the q's:
(1) Kohler seems more highly priced that Moen or Delta - is this worth it? Our old bathroom had Kohler and we found them to be pretty reliable (but the fixtures were nearly 15 years old at the time of the fire and working perfectly).
(2) Has offshoring affected quality?
(3) We have looked through zillions of Amazon and build.com reviews but having some feedback from folks here helps.
So, tell me what I need to watch out for/consider......
thanks
ea
We are doing a full home rebuild after a large fire that destroyed most of the residence. We are now at the stage in the rebuild where plumbing rough-ins are going in. So we need to decide on plumbing fixtures for the bathroom. I've been looking at Kohler, Moen and Delta and we'd like to stay below $600 for our bath fixtures (shower/tub), not faucets. We are undecided about whether we want a hand shower or not since the rental we are living in has one and I've never used it (nor do I particularly desire to). If someone can convince me otherwise, I'm willing to listen. So here are the q's:
(1) Kohler seems more highly priced that Moen or Delta - is this worth it? Our old bathroom had Kohler and we found them to be pretty reliable (but the fixtures were nearly 15 years old at the time of the fire and working perfectly).
(2) Has offshoring affected quality?
(3) We have looked through zillions of Amazon and build.com reviews but having some feedback from folks here helps.
So, tell me what I need to watch out for/consider......
thanks
ea
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I redid my bathroom with Koehler. I’m satisfied with. I was shocked at how this stuff costs. Especially the filler spout for a soaking tub.
I scrounged all over the internet, and I think I ended up spending about $1000 for 2 Koehler sink faucets, soaking tub faucet and valve, shower control valve, handle, and sprayer. And this was not fancy stuff. No rain shower, hand wand, etc.
If I was doing it again, I’d use a “shower panel” instead. Lots of good choices out there at good prices. It looks like a better way to go, in my opinion.
I scrounged all over the internet, and I think I ended up spending about $1000 for 2 Koehler sink faucets, soaking tub faucet and valve, shower control valve, handle, and sprayer. And this was not fancy stuff. No rain shower, hand wand, etc.
If I was doing it again, I’d use a “shower panel” instead. Lots of good choices out there at good prices. It looks like a better way to go, in my opinion.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
The shower panel seems to be > $1K by itself!! When you say, "scrounged", what do you mean? Also I've heard that the big-box store versions of faucets aren't as good as those sold by plumbing stores (more plastic and less metal). Is this true?Normchad wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:00 pm
I scrounged all over the internet, and I think I ended up spending about $1000 for 2 Koehler sink faucets, soaking tub faucet and valve, shower control valve, handle, and sprayer. And this was not fancy stuff. No rain shower, hand wand, etc.
If I was doing it again, I’d use a “shower panel” instead. Lots of good choices out there at good prices. It looks like a better way to go, in my opinion.
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I went through this in 2018. I went with Delta and am pleased especially with bathroom sink fixtures. Can't remember if it was Koehler's whole line but I thought a lot of what I saw on both websites was more fancy styling and little substantial difference after mid price points. Moen seemed too basic for long term but suitable if you are going to sell house soon.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I haven’t personally used a shower panel, but my neighbor has. Here is an exemplar. https://www.amazon.com/ROVATE-Stainless ... 8967488141edgeagg wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:35 pmThe shower panel seems to be > $1K by itself!! When you say, "scrounged", what do you mean? Also I've heard that the big-box store versions of faucets aren't as good as those sold by plumbing stores (more plastic and less metal). Is this true?Normchad wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:00 pm
I scrounged all over the internet, and I think I ended up spending about $1000 for 2 Koehler sink faucets, soaking tub faucet and valve, shower control valve, handle, and sprayer. And this was not fancy stuff. No rain shower, hand wand, etc.
If I was doing it again, I’d use a “shower panel” instead. Lots of good choices out there at good prices. It looks like a better way to go, in my opinion.
When I say I scrounged for Koehler, I really meant I spent a lot of time trying to find a better price, and I just couldn’t. Ultimately, I ended up buying a lot of it from Amazon. Amazon also had the lowest prices on Toto toilets at the time.
Good luck on your project!
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Get the nicest fixtures you can. In the long run a few extra hundred dollars will not break you. Save a few dollars elsewhere.
"Give a cat a fish and it will eat for a day. Teach a cat to fish and it will just sit there waiting for you to give it a fish."
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I've used Delta on a couple of projects and was quite pleased. Their "lifetime" warranty worked out well. The cartridge on our shower failed and they sent a new one no questions asked. Their phone support is also good if you run into problems.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Each brand makes fixtures that are their highest quality, and also lines of visually similar products that must meet price points for big-box stores. They all have the same brand name. But they are not “the same.”
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
My reasons for requiring a hand wand are:
Dog washing
Smaller children
Sprayer to use in cleaning tub.
I did a remodel of my house and went with Delta for both design and their good customer service when needed.
One thing I’d suggest, regardless of brand, is to buy a valve rough with stops. It is convenient to not have to turn off house water supply to change cartridge or other valve work.
Dog washing
Smaller children
Sprayer to use in cleaning tub.
I did a remodel of my house and went with Delta for both design and their good customer service when needed.
One thing I’d suggest, regardless of brand, is to buy a valve rough with stops. It is convenient to not have to turn off house water supply to change cartridge or other valve work.
People say nothing is impossible. I do nothing all day.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Delta has a lifetime warranty? I just spent $35 on 2 cartridges for a sink that’s 18 years old. Time to call Delta!LifeIsGood wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:59 am I've used Delta on a couple of projects and was quite pleased. Their "lifetime" warranty worked out well. The cartridge on our shower failed and they sent a new one no questions asked. Their phone support is also good if you run into problems.
To OP, I have Delta all throughout our 18 year old house and have had no complaints.
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Shower and other water valves such as sink, etc.
Should have: (best quality)
Brass body.
Ceramic innards.
Stainless or other non corrosive handles, etc. (not plastic).
*Readily available parts. (this is a huge factor) For example: Whatever shower valve you buy, find out if the inner washers or cartridges, etc, is easily replaced and available, both OEM and 3rd party maker brand. Because, eventually, valves leak/drip and the cartridge/washers will need replacing.
Buy the best quality that you can afford.
j
*Other tips:
1. Install a high quality shower head "output pipe (angled) (stubbed through the shower wall, goes by various names), coated or decorative brass, etc, at the proper height and length to match the occupants of the home. IE: some spouses are 5 feet tall and some shower heads are installed at well over 6 feet high.
2. Install a high quality brass "drop ear elbow" very solidly. (there are generic brass ones and thicker better brass ones) **Do not put iron ones. It get's stress from movement and is a leak spot if poor quality or the "ears" are not fastened securely with non rusting screws. Be sure the blocking for this is substantial and not a 1x.
Do this for both the shower valve and the shower head.
3. Be sure the water lines are clamped down in the walls "more than securely", (at joints, elbows, and tight intervals on long runs) to prevent movement and "water hammer". If copper lines, do not install the clamps too tight because the copper lines expand and contract when hot water runs through them which will make them rub against a tight clamp. If possible insulate your hot water lines.
4. Be sure there is more than ample and solid horizontal wood blocking along the shower pan or tub horizontal edges so no rusting screws/fasteners can have good purchase. Also, blocking in the floor joists along the shower pan or tub front edge to control floor flex. Same for the toilet anchor bolt area. Make them the blocking substantial and use longer bolts, etc. of equiv.
5. Hardyboard or other waterproof backing sheets/panels for shower or tub surround area before finish stone, tile, ceramic, etc. Tape and coat joints. Waterproof penetrations.
6. Some people do this, most don't. It depends on the layout of the bathroom. Install ball valves under the bathroom sink that shuts off the water to the bathroom. Hot and cold. I've seen it in some condo's, only a few homes. Just something to think about.
7. The hand wand connected the shower head arm via diverter valve, or other setup, is excellent when cleaning the shower or tub surround area.
8. Yes. In some brands, off soring has definitely effected quality.
9. Find out what plumbing supply houses (physical locations in your area) carry and what high end quality brands and models are used. Go with that. What plumbing supply houses carry is not what the box stores and online will carry. This is what the plumbing companies and plumbers use day in and out.
Just some random things to consider.
j
DW and I have 4 bathrooms with double sinks in some of them, in our home. The sink faucets are Phister. Excellent quality replacement valves are tough to find. Whatever they are replacing them with that's called, OEM is not very good, and the off brands don't last.
So, try not to have this problem with whatever brand and model you choose for bathroom valves. Do not buy cheap and off brand for sure.
Should have: (best quality)
Brass body.
Ceramic innards.
Stainless or other non corrosive handles, etc. (not plastic).
*Readily available parts. (this is a huge factor) For example: Whatever shower valve you buy, find out if the inner washers or cartridges, etc, is easily replaced and available, both OEM and 3rd party maker brand. Because, eventually, valves leak/drip and the cartridge/washers will need replacing.
Buy the best quality that you can afford.
j
*Other tips:
1. Install a high quality shower head "output pipe (angled) (stubbed through the shower wall, goes by various names), coated or decorative brass, etc, at the proper height and length to match the occupants of the home. IE: some spouses are 5 feet tall and some shower heads are installed at well over 6 feet high.
2. Install a high quality brass "drop ear elbow" very solidly. (there are generic brass ones and thicker better brass ones) **Do not put iron ones. It get's stress from movement and is a leak spot if poor quality or the "ears" are not fastened securely with non rusting screws. Be sure the blocking for this is substantial and not a 1x.
Do this for both the shower valve and the shower head.
3. Be sure the water lines are clamped down in the walls "more than securely", (at joints, elbows, and tight intervals on long runs) to prevent movement and "water hammer". If copper lines, do not install the clamps too tight because the copper lines expand and contract when hot water runs through them which will make them rub against a tight clamp. If possible insulate your hot water lines.
4. Be sure there is more than ample and solid horizontal wood blocking along the shower pan or tub horizontal edges so no rusting screws/fasteners can have good purchase. Also, blocking in the floor joists along the shower pan or tub front edge to control floor flex. Same for the toilet anchor bolt area. Make them the blocking substantial and use longer bolts, etc. of equiv.
5. Hardyboard or other waterproof backing sheets/panels for shower or tub surround area before finish stone, tile, ceramic, etc. Tape and coat joints. Waterproof penetrations.
6. Some people do this, most don't. It depends on the layout of the bathroom. Install ball valves under the bathroom sink that shuts off the water to the bathroom. Hot and cold. I've seen it in some condo's, only a few homes. Just something to think about.
7. The hand wand connected the shower head arm via diverter valve, or other setup, is excellent when cleaning the shower or tub surround area.
8. Yes. In some brands, off soring has definitely effected quality.
9. Find out what plumbing supply houses (physical locations in your area) carry and what high end quality brands and models are used. Go with that. What plumbing supply houses carry is not what the box stores and online will carry. This is what the plumbing companies and plumbers use day in and out.
Just some random things to consider.
j
DW and I have 4 bathrooms with double sinks in some of them, in our home. The sink faucets are Phister. Excellent quality replacement valves are tough to find. Whatever they are replacing them with that's called, OEM is not very good, and the off brands don't last.
So, try not to have this problem with whatever brand and model you choose for bathroom valves. Do not buy cheap and off brand for sure.
- bertilak
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Price Pfister has been good for me.
I have a 13 year old shower fixture that was (my plumber thought) giving me trouble. Pfister honored their lifetime warranty TWICE by sending a replacement part. That eventually turned out not to be the problem. Low water flow caused by a restricted shower head was the culprit. The plumber could not figure this out! A gold star for me because I eventually did figure it out. Now I have TWO spare valve cartridges.
I have a 13 year old shower fixture that was (my plumber thought) giving me trouble. Pfister honored their lifetime warranty TWICE by sending a replacement part. That eventually turned out not to be the problem. Low water flow caused by a restricted shower head was the culprit. The plumber could not figure this out! A gold star for me because I eventually did figure it out. Now I have TWO spare valve cartridges.
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
We have a Delta shower valve in our downstairs shower, repaired last year as it started leaking a little. DW's bathroom was being remodeled, so we had the plumber on site throw in a repair kit. Good as new. The shower was part of a remodeling job to accommodate a shower chair for me in 1999.
Good stuff. I have Delta throughout the house for sinks, showers, tub.
Broken Man 1999
Good stuff. I have Delta throughout the house for sinks, showers, tub.
Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I had an incredibly great experience with Kohler customer support. We were having problems with a 30 or more y.o. shower mixer. I was thinking we were going to have to tear out the tile to replace it, or maybe make a big hole in the exterior wall of the house. I called Kohler and to my amazement they were able to identify the mixer from my description and give me the part numbers for a new valve. The fun part was the woman then said, "But you could save some money by just buying the rebuild kit." That was so sweet of her, but since I was worrying about the cost of re-tiling, $90 or whatever it was for a new valve seemed very reasonable.
If you get on the plumbing forums, it seems the consensus is that all the new stuff is crap compared to the old, and the reason is the dang government made the manufacturers remove lead from the brass, so everything is plastic now. This is crazy talk in my book, since the new valves and such seem so much better than the old, smoother and more long lasting.
This is where reading Amazon reviews will drive you crazy. It's like computer printers, every single item, no matter what brand, has a huge percentage of 1 star reviews, with titles like, "DON'T BUY". If any of these products were as bad as they sound in the reviews, companies like HP wouldn't be in business. Same thing with faucets I found.
Personally, I've had good luck with big box store Delta faucets. I've had valves go bad, but they are inexpensive and simple to replace. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the brands you mention.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I will readily admit to not being the Happy Homemaker but a hand shower I found to be of use when cleaning the shower. It was easy to use it to aim the water better to rinse off the cleaner. A regular shower head usually is limited in how much you can aim it.
Anyhow that is my reasoning for having a hand shower.
Anyhow that is my reasoning for having a hand shower.
----------------------------- |
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I have heard this many times anecdotally, but how can you ensure you're getting the highest quality? Where do you buy from?
- lthenderson
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Like someone mentioned above, all those brands have various lines that differ in quality and another person wrote of some of the things to look for to get higher quality. I think if you get a high quality line of any of those brands you can't go wrong.
I redid our shower probably five years ago and used high end Moen products and have been pleased with them. We ended up going with two body sprays that are flush mounted into the tile wall and a thermostatic control valve. The thermostatic control valve is a must for me anymore in a shower. It basically automatically mixes the water to your desired temperature and keeps it there so that the water is to temperature within seconds with no fiddling of the knob and it stays there regardless if someone decides to flush a toilet or start the washing machine while you are in the shower. I can notice a change in pressure but the water temperature stays mercifully constant.
I wasn't so sure about the built in body sprays but have grown to really like them especially during winter. Just having more water applied evenly over the body keeps one feeling more comfortable than say the old fashioned way of just standing under the shower head and leaning this way and that and the end not under the water feeling cold. It certainly isn't required for a good shower but it was a luxury that I have learned to enjoy and would probably do so again.
The one drawback to this setup is that there are three knobs. One to control the on and off of the shower head, one for the body sprays and the thermostatic control valve which doesn't really need adjusting after setting the first time but might be confusing to guests unfamiliar with the shower. I probably wouldn't do such a thing in a guest bathroom but for a master bath, it is well worth the extra dollars.
I redid our shower probably five years ago and used high end Moen products and have been pleased with them. We ended up going with two body sprays that are flush mounted into the tile wall and a thermostatic control valve. The thermostatic control valve is a must for me anymore in a shower. It basically automatically mixes the water to your desired temperature and keeps it there so that the water is to temperature within seconds with no fiddling of the knob and it stays there regardless if someone decides to flush a toilet or start the washing machine while you are in the shower. I can notice a change in pressure but the water temperature stays mercifully constant.
I wasn't so sure about the built in body sprays but have grown to really like them especially during winter. Just having more water applied evenly over the body keeps one feeling more comfortable than say the old fashioned way of just standing under the shower head and leaning this way and that and the end not under the water feeling cold. It certainly isn't required for a good shower but it was a luxury that I have learned to enjoy and would probably do so again.
The one drawback to this setup is that there are three knobs. One to control the on and off of the shower head, one for the body sprays and the thermostatic control valve which doesn't really need adjusting after setting the first time but might be confusing to guests unfamiliar with the shower. I probably wouldn't do such a thing in a guest bathroom but for a master bath, it is well worth the extra dollars.
- lthenderson
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I think just walking into a big box hardware store and choosing one off a wall of similar fixtures is the best way to ensure you will get something low quality. Big box stores tend to stick to the lower quality lines which are priced the cheapest.davemanjam wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:06 amI have heard this many times anecdotally, but how can you ensure you're getting the highest quality? Where do you buy from?
I personally will go to a specific manufacturers website and compare products ahead of time to see how they are different. Do they have ceramic valves, do they have a solid brass body, etc. From that, you can generally figure out which line is the higher quality and almost always they are priced the most. Once you know the fixture you want, then you can go to aggregating sites like Amazon or a big box hardware store and try to find cheaper prices.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
OK, so this is terrific information and here is a summary:
(1) Buy the best quality you can afford (given the cheapo tendencies of BHs, that can be a challenge). I hear and agree subject to the obvious limitation that you have to like the look of the set.
(2) Valve-rough-in should have stops or in general there should be some way to turn off water for the entire bathroom to work on things. Yes, we already told our contractor that we want this for all rooms with plumbing (bathrooms, laundry room, kitchen).
(3) Buy from local plumbing supply stores. We weren't planning to buy from the big box stores anyway.
(4) Brass drop ear elbows (had to look this up) at all transitions - many thanks to Sandtrap!
Right now, we are leaning towards Kohler and Moen, but that can change once we visit some showrooms this weekend.
Personally, we prefer more transitional styles and not the ultramodern angular styles that are in vogue these days. No idea if that will bite us when we sell the house (>= 10 years from now).
ea
(1) Buy the best quality you can afford (given the cheapo tendencies of BHs, that can be a challenge). I hear and agree subject to the obvious limitation that you have to like the look of the set.
(2) Valve-rough-in should have stops or in general there should be some way to turn off water for the entire bathroom to work on things. Yes, we already told our contractor that we want this for all rooms with plumbing (bathrooms, laundry room, kitchen).
(3) Buy from local plumbing supply stores. We weren't planning to buy from the big box stores anyway.
(4) Brass drop ear elbows (had to look this up) at all transitions - many thanks to Sandtrap!
Right now, we are leaning towards Kohler and Moen, but that can change once we visit some showrooms this weekend.
Personally, we prefer more transitional styles and not the ultramodern angular styles that are in vogue these days. No idea if that will bite us when we sell the house (>= 10 years from now).
ea
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
One thing I recently learned to do is cut out the part/model number from the box your faucet comes in. Tape it under your sink. Years from now when you need to rebuild the faucet, call Delta, Kohler, whoever offered the lifetime warranty and they will send you a complete rebuild kit with cartridges, gaskets, whatever. For free. But you have to have that part/model number for the exact faucet you bought.h82goslw wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:53 amDelta has a lifetime warranty? I just spent $35 on 2 cartridges for a sink that’s 18 years old. Time to call Delta!LifeIsGood wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:59 am I've used Delta on a couple of projects and was quite pleased. Their "lifetime" warranty worked out well. The cartridge on our shower failed and they sent a new one no questions asked. Their phone support is also good if you run into problems.
To OP, I have Delta all throughout our 18 year old house and have had no complaints.
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
We have higher end Kohler fixtures throughout. They are 21 years old. On the few occasions (maybe three) that a faucet has dripped, etc. Kohler has sent us a replacement part for free. No questions asked. No shipping cost. We couldn't be more pleased with them.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
You did not ask, but I hope you are building a curbless shower.
We have Delta Arzo and are happy with them.
We have two showers: rain head and handheld. Like both.
Don't forget the electrical outlet behind the toilet for the washlet.
We have Delta Arzo and are happy with them.
We have two showers: rain head and handheld. Like both.
Don't forget the electrical outlet behind the toilet for the washlet.
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
OK, I'll bite. Why do we need a curbless as opposed to a curbful (?) shower? Tripping?
Washlet: Hmm. Not sure I'm a big Toto fan though.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
If you want to age in place, a curb less shower is great. If you had to, you could enter using a walker or wheel chair.
I’d like to go a step further, and have one that doesn’t need a door or curtain at all
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I would take a look at the Nebia shower head, which has a version licensed to Moen. We bought ours during the Kickstarter campaign a few years ago and couldn’t be happier. Saves a lot of water so that’s one great aspect. I also do enjoy the extra handheld that comes with it.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Installing an outlet now is a few dollars.
Installing one later is much costlier.
Old fart who does three index stock funds, baby.
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
There is a 5' long sink/cabinet between the toilet and the wall electrical outlet in a bathroom. A full length mirror is also on the wall facing the sink. What is the best way to bring electricity to a bidet?
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I would add: install the valve on the wall opposite from the shower head.
I hate that blast of cold water when you turn on the shower.
Drains:: simple is better, those sexy new recessed channel drains? The channel runs into a cylindrical opening, with a screen on it--that can back up, for some reason far worse that just a simple ROUND DRAIN, like OG intended.
I hate that blast of cold water when you turn on the shower.
Drains:: simple is better, those sexy new recessed channel drains? The channel runs into a cylindrical opening, with a screen on it--that can back up, for some reason far worse that just a simple ROUND DRAIN, like OG intended.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Do you perhaps mean "adjacent"? I turn the shower on and slink away till it warms up. Don't care for fancy drains.phxjcc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:27 pm I would add: install the valve on the wall opposite from the shower head.
I hate that blast of cold water when you turn on the shower.
Drains:: simple is better, those sexy new recessed channel drains? The channel runs into a cylindrical opening, with a screen on it--that can back up, for some reason far worse that just a simple ROUND DRAIN, like OG intended.
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
But there's a trade-off: when you quadruple the length of pipe between the valves and the shower head, you quadruple the time it takes for a temperature change to go into effect. I hate showers where it takes a full minute of fiddling to get the right temperature.
Marylander1
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
The lady that cleans my house strongly recommended having one just for cleaning the shower.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Try this.Marylander1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:38 pmBut there's a trade-off: when you quadruple the length of pipe between the valves and the shower head, you quadruple the time it takes for a temperature change to go into effect. I hate showers where it takes a full minute of fiddling to get the right temperature.
Marylander1
https://www.build.com/product/summary/5 ... lsrc=aw.ds
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Recently had an issue with our shower/tub spout diverter (Kohlr). Had to have a plumber come out and replace what was supposed to be an easy fix with a slip on diverter valve but the copper pipe was damaged that would not allow a slip on diverter spout to be used.
Looked things up on line for people who had similar issues and needed to cut/sweat on new diverter tube piece for the fixture. The consensus I found was that Delta shower/tub diverters were the best. When the plumber came to do the repair (cut/sweat pipe), I had a couple replacement shower/tub diverters, one with screw on end (which in itself looks safer than the slip on ones) and I also had a Delta one. Asked him to put on whatever would be the best repair, and he looked at the Delta one's design and said "this one."
I think the new slip on tub/shower diverters are a cheap short-cut with builders now that I'm familiar with them.
Jump to another house recently just before the above issue. Water leaking from 2nd floor into 1st floor ceiling/down drywall. Plumber had to cut hole in drywall to figure out what was leaking. It was the shower/tub diverter leaking backward into the wall (since there will always be an open hole to the wall in this spot). Easy replacement (slip on type) was done by plumber, but it drove home thought, those slip on valves with gaskets are prone to eventually fail. Failure can result in alot of water going into bathtub vs. to showerhead which will be an annoyance from wasted water and shower water pressure. However, failure can also result in water leaking back behind the wall causing damage (like this one), and if their would have been subtle leakage that can cause slow unseen damage for a long time.
Net thought: If I would be doing any remodeling, at least for the tub/shower diverter, I think I'd go with the Delta ones. But OP, look it up.
Looked things up on line for people who had similar issues and needed to cut/sweat on new diverter tube piece for the fixture. The consensus I found was that Delta shower/tub diverters were the best. When the plumber came to do the repair (cut/sweat pipe), I had a couple replacement shower/tub diverters, one with screw on end (which in itself looks safer than the slip on ones) and I also had a Delta one. Asked him to put on whatever would be the best repair, and he looked at the Delta one's design and said "this one."
I think the new slip on tub/shower diverters are a cheap short-cut with builders now that I'm familiar with them.
Jump to another house recently just before the above issue. Water leaking from 2nd floor into 1st floor ceiling/down drywall. Plumber had to cut hole in drywall to figure out what was leaking. It was the shower/tub diverter leaking backward into the wall (since there will always be an open hole to the wall in this spot). Easy replacement (slip on type) was done by plumber, but it drove home thought, those slip on valves with gaskets are prone to eventually fail. Failure can result in alot of water going into bathtub vs. to showerhead which will be an annoyance from wasted water and shower water pressure. However, failure can also result in water leaking back behind the wall causing damage (like this one), and if their would have been subtle leakage that can cause slow unseen damage for a long time.
Net thought: If I would be doing any remodeling, at least for the tub/shower diverter, I think I'd go with the Delta ones. But OP, look it up.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Thanks, that is good to know. I did not know there were different kinds of diverter (threaded vs slip-on). Looking it up now.IMO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:48 pm Recently had an issue with our shower/tub spout diverter (Kohlr). Had to have a plumber come out and replace what was supposed to be an easy fix with a slip on diverter valve but the copper pipe was damaged that would not allow a slip on diverter spout to be used.
Looked things up on line for people who had similar issues and needed to cut/sweat on new diverter tube piece for the fixture. The consensus I found was that Delta shower/tub diverters were the best. When the plumber came to do the repair (cut/sweat pipe), I had a couple replacement shower/tub diverters, one with screw on end (which in itself looks safer than the slip on ones) and I also had a Delta one. Asked him to put on whatever would be the best repair, and he looked at the Delta one's design and said "this one."
I think the new slip on tub/shower diverters are a cheap short-cut with builders now that I'm familiar with them.
Net thought: If I would be doing any remodeling, at least for the tub/shower diverter, I think I'd go with the Delta ones. But OP, look it up.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Also, I like thermostatic shower valves where the temp can stay set and you just change the water volume.
Linear drains are not common in the USA but offer some advantages. They can allow the use of larger tiles and only one slope is needed.
https://trubuildconstruction.com/how-to ... l-want-one
Linear drains are not common in the USA but offer some advantages. They can allow the use of larger tiles and only one slope is needed.
https://trubuildconstruction.com/how-to ... l-want-one
People say nothing is impossible. I do nothing all day.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Moen = Bulletproof
Mine are 26.5 yrs old, not a drip.
Mine are 26.5 yrs old, not a drip.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
used Kohler for years, and their customer service is top-notch.
Still have Moen single handle shower valves and that's only bcos it would require chipping away tiles to put anything else in that spot. Moen was OEM, so cheap Moen fits easily. Have replaced them once about 10 years ago and they need to get swapped out again. Don't like the low end Moen so may chip out tiles this time to replace with a Kohler valve.
Still have Moen single handle shower valves and that's only bcos it would require chipping away tiles to put anything else in that spot. Moen was OEM, so cheap Moen fits easily. Have replaced them once about 10 years ago and they need to get swapped out again. Don't like the low end Moen so may chip out tiles this time to replace with a Kohler valve.
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Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I put in a Kohler shower faucet about 15 years ago. It failed a month ago, I called Kohler. They were able to identify the model and send me parts at no charge to fix it. The downside is that it took the parts 2 weeks to arrive. I now have spare parts for this faucet.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
A hand shower is absolutely necessary for cleaning parts of your body facing down. I can' imagine the yoga poses I'd have to do with a fixed shower.
I would go with Hansgrohe or Grohe. Chrome is significantly cheaper than nickel, satin nickel etc. Kohler is fine although their designs last timed I checked seemed from my grandma's house (it might not be the case anymore) but Delta faucets and showers I looked at in HD seemed terrible in quality (flimsy, lot's of plastic).
I personally like exposed pipes (or with a removable cover), much easier to fix later than the one in the wall, under the tiles.
I would go with Hansgrohe or Grohe. Chrome is significantly cheaper than nickel, satin nickel etc. Kohler is fine although their designs last timed I checked seemed from my grandma's house (it might not be the case anymore) but Delta faucets and showers I looked at in HD seemed terrible in quality (flimsy, lot's of plastic).
I personally like exposed pipes (or with a removable cover), much easier to fix later than the one in the wall, under the tiles.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
You are at rough in so you have to select manufacturer and function.
I recently went through this and selected Delta, because I've had excellent experience with their customer service (they send new cartridges for free), and even if they were not to send for free, the parts are readily available. Have two 25+ year old Delta shower, and the one used several times a day is on it's third cartridge but it has not cost any money. The other is on it's original.
You also need to select function. A few tips
Your handle does not need to be under the shower head. Put is where it is convenient for you.
Decide on the functions you want and get all of that roughed in. Suggest you rough in a diverter for two shower heads. That way if anyone in your house ever can't reach the upper one you have a lower one. You can use the diverter handle to direct to which head the the water goes.
Decide if you want separate controls for flow of water and hot cold. Some have this, others just have hot/cold control.
After you decide on the above, everything else is just the trim kit. The trim kit is the expensive part to buy, but very easy to change out. You pick brushed nickel this year, and in 10 years you want another color, you just remove the trim and replace it with a different style/color. This is MUCH easier if you select on one of the standard brands such as Delta. 25 years ago I went with builder standard everything, then started changing out the handles/trim as I found things I liked on sale.
I recently went through this and selected Delta, because I've had excellent experience with their customer service (they send new cartridges for free), and even if they were not to send for free, the parts are readily available. Have two 25+ year old Delta shower, and the one used several times a day is on it's third cartridge but it has not cost any money. The other is on it's original.
You also need to select function. A few tips
Your handle does not need to be under the shower head. Put is where it is convenient for you.
Decide on the functions you want and get all of that roughed in. Suggest you rough in a diverter for two shower heads. That way if anyone in your house ever can't reach the upper one you have a lower one. You can use the diverter handle to direct to which head the the water goes.
Decide if you want separate controls for flow of water and hot cold. Some have this, others just have hot/cold control.
After you decide on the above, everything else is just the trim kit. The trim kit is the expensive part to buy, but very easy to change out. You pick brushed nickel this year, and in 10 years you want another color, you just remove the trim and replace it with a different style/color. This is MUCH easier if you select on one of the standard brands such as Delta. 25 years ago I went with builder standard everything, then started changing out the handles/trim as I found things I liked on sale.
- lthenderson
- Posts: 8525
- Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:43 am
- Location: Iowa
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
In my case, I used an existing outlet up at sink level meant for hair dryers, electric razors and such and fished a new wire down closer to floor level in the same stud bay, which happened to be close enough to the toilet to plug a new bidet seat into it. It took only a few hours and didn't require anything more than cutting a new hole in the drywall and installing a new electrical box.MathIsMyWayr wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:43 pm There is a 5' long sink/cabinet between the toilet and the wall electrical outlet in a bathroom. A full length mirror is also on the wall facing the sink. What is the best way to bring electricity to a bidet?
Another place to consider is to look at the backside of the wall your toilet sits up against. Is there an outlet on the opposite side of the wall that you could tap into?
Finally, drywall is cheap and fairly easy to patch up though there definitely is a learning curve to it that makes one much faster if experienced. I've removed a six inch strip of drywall across multiple stud bays and after drilling holes in the studs, installed new electrical boxes before. Then you have to put the strip back (if you were able to get it out in one piece) and do some patching and painting.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
They can be pretty but present cleaning and water spot challenges.
https://www.signaturehardware.com/bathr ... owers.html
People say nothing is impossible. I do nothing all day.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Sign of the Crab!
My wife found this phenomenal externally plumbed rain shower with handheld.
It's a work of art and has a thermostatic valve so no burning when a toilet flushes or freezing when someone runs the dishwasher.
https://imgur.com/3y3Cgtj
https://imgur.com/Tmo7e3H
We've used a mixture of semi-custom and other brands.
Newport Brass, Signature Hardware and Hansgrohe.
Quality wise Newport Brass is on another level. Signature is fine but it basically copies high end stuff and makes them cheaper, which is fine I guess but know what you're buying.
Hansgrohe stuff is nice if you like modern styling and their rough ins are cheap but well made and have nice options.
My wife found this phenomenal externally plumbed rain shower with handheld.
It's a work of art and has a thermostatic valve so no burning when a toilet flushes or freezing when someone runs the dishwasher.
https://imgur.com/3y3Cgtj
https://imgur.com/Tmo7e3H
We've used a mixture of semi-custom and other brands.
Newport Brass, Signature Hardware and Hansgrohe.
Quality wise Newport Brass is on another level. Signature is fine but it basically copies high end stuff and makes them cheaper, which is fine I guess but know what you're buying.
Hansgrohe stuff is nice if you like modern styling and their rough ins are cheap but well made and have nice options.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Thanks for the pics. Will have to run it by the final decision making authority . I'll ask the contractor about how to maximize the reliability of the entire system too (eg: Using high quality transitions from PEX etc).clutchied wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:12 pm Sign of the Crab!
My wife found this phenomenal externally plumbed rain shower with handheld.
It's a work of art and has a thermostatic valve so no burning when a toilet flushes or freezing when someone runs the dishwasher.
https://imgur.com/3y3Cgtj
https://imgur.com/Tmo7e3H
Hansgrohe stuff is nice if you like modern styling and their rough ins are cheap but well made and have nice options.
Got a huge amount of useful information, so thanks very much
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
I thought the valve needed to be on the same wall as the shower head! Amazingly good idea. I hate the cold water blast too.phxjcc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:27 pm I would add: install the valve on the wall opposite from the shower head.
I hate that blast of cold water when you turn on the shower.
Drains:: simple is better, those sexy new recessed channel drains? The channel runs into a cylindrical opening, with a screen on it--that can back up, for some reason far worse that just a simple ROUND DRAIN, like OG intended.
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- Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:47 pm
- Location: CA
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
Thanks. I found a nearby electrical outlet on the other side of the thin wall in another room.lthenderson wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:12 amIn my case, I used an existing outlet up at sink level meant for hair dryers, electric razors and such and fished a new wire down closer to floor level in the same stud bay, which happened to be close enough to the toilet to plug a new bidet seat into it. It took only a few hours and didn't require anything more than cutting a new hole in the drywall and installing a new electrical box.MathIsMyWayr wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:43 pm There is a 5' long sink/cabinet between the toilet and the wall electrical outlet in a bathroom. A full length mirror is also on the wall facing the sink. What is the best way to bring electricity to a bidet?
Another place to consider is to look at the backside of the wall your toilet sits up against. Is there an outlet on the opposite side of the wall that you could tap into?
Finally, drywall is cheap and fairly easy to patch up though there definitely is a learning curve to it that makes one much faster if experienced. I've removed a six inch strip of drywall across multiple stud bays and after drilling holes in the studs, installed new electrical boxes before. Then you have to put the strip back (if you were able to get it out in one piece) and do some patching and painting.
Re: Showers and Shower faucets
My master bath is getting remodeled as I type.
We opted not to have a hand-held; didn't want to clutter up the shower with something neither of us thought we'd use....
We opted not to have a hand-held; didn't want to clutter up the shower with something neither of us thought we'd use....