Engagement Ring

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BrownEyedGirl_27
Posts: 302
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:37 pm

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by BrownEyedGirl_27 »

MrBobcat wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:50 pm I'm so glad I was poor when I got married. 1/3 carat engagement ring at JC Penny's - $230, which so far has worked out to $7.18/year.

That being said I'd second the look at Costco.
I’d look at Costco for a ring and not pay the outrageous retail markup of Tiffany’s.

My husband had a quarter diamond he inherited from his grandmother. He had it set in a custom yellow gold band and I wear it everyday. He bought my simple rose gold wedding band from the same jeweler and it’s perfect for me. I have very small hands, so I wouldn’t want anything bulky to deal with. I still forget to take it off when I’m making bread and it gets in the way!

My advice? Go with the smallest size she is comfortable with, if she wants to wear it daily/ show it off.
"Your mind has a mind of its own. At the very moment when you are most convinced of your own rationality, you may be feeling rather than thinking your way toward a decision.” | Jason Zweig
Glockenspiel
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Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:20 pm

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Glockenspiel »

aamr wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:38 pm
Checked on White Flash (an online diamond seller) and found a similar round diamond for much cheaper. Carat: 1.505, Color: E, Clarity: VVS2, Cut: "A Cut Above" (essentially excellent). Price: 21K. So if I buy this diamond + rose gold ring (another 300-800 dollars) then essentially I am saving somewhere around 23 K and some change.
I bought my wife her engagement ring on Whiteflash in 2009. It's a 1.08 carat, G color, SI1, A Cut Above diamond for $5,500. She gets sooo many compliments on it. I bet if you lower your color and clarity to F or G, and VS2, you'll save a TON of money and it will still be a very very beautiful diamond. A VS2 is eye clean and you won't be able to tell there are inclusions in it. I can't recommend Whiteflash enough for an online diamond purchase. They were fantastic.
TrudgingAlong
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:15 pm

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by TrudgingAlong »

Throwing in another place to shop is Brilliant Earth: https://www.brilliantearth.com/. It is ethically sourced and I had a great experience with them. You can buy online or visit their showrooms.

I would also highly suggest speaking with your girlfriend about her preferences in a ring and cost, or if you want to make it a surprise, go out on a date and "accidently" go to a ring shop for her to try some on (you can tease it, so it will be more lighthearted). When I did that, my then girlfriend learned sooo much about her preferences on what she liked and what she didn't like. It seriously saved a lot of guess work on my end. Looking at countless ring pictures do no justice until you actually put the ring on. There's nothing worse then spending 45 grand on a rock that she doesn't like!

Good luck!

(Oh yeah, get insurance just for peace of mind. And skip the Tiffany :D )
fareastwarriors
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Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:31 am

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by fareastwarriors »

TrudgingAlong wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:06 am Throwing in another place to shop is Brilliant Earth: https://www.brilliantearth.com/. It is ethically sourced and I had a great experience with them. You can buy online or visit their showrooms.

I would also highly suggest speaking with your girlfriend about her preferences in a ring and cost, or if you want to make it a surprise, go out on a date and "accidently" go to a ring shop for her to try some on (you can tease it, so it will be more lighthearted). When I did that, my then girlfriend learned sooo much about her preferences on what she liked and what she didn't like. It seriously saved a lot of guess work on my end. Looking at countless ring pictures do no justice until you actually put the ring on. There's nothing worse then spending 45 grand on a rock that she doesn't like!

Good luck!

(Oh yeah, get insurance just for peace of mind. And skip the Tiffany :D )
My gf and I just spent $27k there. :D
lightheir
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Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by lightheir »

surfstar wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:42 am
lightheir wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:11 am Tiffany is all about the name. But let's be real, so is the cost of the engagement ring - it's all how its perceived that is paramount.

Like it or not, there is a real subjective value for many (?most?) for showing this type of expenditure for the engagement ring. Meaning it's more than just a business transaction.

I will add as someone who bequeathed a Tiffany ring to my wife (and it was totally worth it, imo!) she rarely wears it. Too bulky, too expensive, easier to wear a low profile band instead. We actually worry about where we keep something like this, and it gets annoying!
So...
synthetic or whatever they call them + Tiffany box = everyone's happy.


The amount of social engineering that "justifies" spending an absurd amount of money on a shiny object, that may not even be worn daily... :oops:
If your definition of 'everone's happy' = when your wife finds out that her alleged Tiffany ring is cubic zirconium and passed of as such, you've got a more patient lady than mine!
hightechburrito
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:15 pm

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by hightechburrito »

Just chiming in to post a few recommendations:

1) I saw someone else already mentioned pricescope.com, but I found them incredibly helpful.

2) I also found this website helpful as well: https://www.diamonds.pro/truth-about/

3) I ended up buying my wife's ring from whiteflash and had a great experience. If I were to do it all again, I would probably check out Costco.

4) I'm far from a diamond expert, but here's what I gleaned from my research about the 4 C's:

Cut - By far the most important. I poorly cut stone won't sparkle and can look smaller than a well cut stone.

Color - Less important for a solitare. If there's nothing to compare it against you don't really see the differences in color. And going back to 'cut', a well cut stone that has a lower graded color may look better than a poorly cut stone that is colorless

Clarity - Hard to tell what a stone actually looks like based on its grading. You really need to see the stone with your own eyes. Grading is done with a 10x loupe (I believe), but do you ever look at your rings that way? If you can't see any inclusions with your naked eye, do you care? Again going back to 'cut', a well cut stone will hide inclusions better than a poorly cut stone. Also, a talented jeweler may be able to hide any defects under a prong in the ring.

Carat - There will be price jumps as you go increase in carat weight, with jumps at certain points (think .9999 to 1.0 carats). Diamond cutters know this, so they may be tempted to leave some material in place to make the cut stone weight over 1 carat, but this would result in a poor cut and not be as pretty as a well cut .99 carat stone. But the 1.0 carat diamond will probably be more expensive.

Regarding a certification (GIA/AGL/etc). It was described to me as getting a certified purebred dog vs. a purebred dog without papers. One will be much more expensive because you have a piece of paper telling you what it is. Getting a certified diamond makes a lot of sense to me if you considered it an investment with the intention to resell at some point, but are you ever going to sell this diamond? That said, I did get a stone with a certification, mainly because it seemed to be the default option from the jeweler.
nptit
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Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:51 pm

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by nptit »

Have ever considered asking your future wife what she wants? When I was planning for engagement, my wife specifically requires not to buy any fancy brand or large diamond. We spent less than 2K in total for the engagement ring and wedding bands for both of us. Go with what your future wife values, if she likes Tiffany, I think it worth to spend more if you can afford it.
Pandemic Bangs
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Pandemic Bangs »

stoptothink wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:57 am
Because under a microscope someone may be able to notice some differences, it is "not for everyday use" :oops: ? Over a long period (of decades), this may result in some "wear"? Statements like that are exactly why the industry is such a racket.
Not at all what I said. Not my industry, either.

Morganite is not a sapphire. Sapphire will abrade over many years. Morganite is too soft for an e-ring and will abrade rapidly. Anyone will tell you that. It is not my opinion.

10X is not a "microscope" (?!). It's called a magnifying glass. You may have seen them referred to as a loupe. It's how people look at gemstones. I 'm sure you can see what I am talking about with just your eye and a bright light -- it will just make it very easy to see.

Anyway, enjoy! Over and out.
Wait 'til I get my money right | Then you can't tell me nothing, right?
Dottie57
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Dottie57 »

The price just stuns me. I would not want a ring that cost more that $5k...probably less would be better.
katrid11
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:11 am

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by katrid11 »

Also check just under the 1.5 carat.

Mine is just under and saved my Dh several $1000s b/c 1.49 or 1.48 sells for a lot less (at least in 2009) than the 1.50 or 1.51. Same with 1ct - go for .98 or .95 and the size difference is not perceptible to the human eye but costs less. Mine is E, VVS2 round cut.

As a woman that likes a nice diamond - clearest color is most important then go for VVS2 or even VS1. Don't go below VS1. And only do VS1 if the occlusion is off the side.
Pandemic Bangs
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:49 pm

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Pandemic Bangs »

hightechburrito wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm Regarding a certification (GIA/AGL/etc). It was described to me as getting a certified purebred dog vs. a purebred dog without papers. One will be much more expensive because you have a piece of paper telling you what it is. Getting a certified diamond makes a lot of sense to me if you considered it an investment with the intention to resell at some point, but are you ever going to sell this diamond? That said, I did get a stone with a certification, mainly because it seemed to be the default option from the jeweler.
You always need a report from an independent and well-regarded lab like the ones you mentioned. Always ask if it has a report, not a certificate. Stones are never "certified" -- like a used Toyota. They either have a report or they do not. Top-origin colored stones may need two or three reports from world-class labs. One is fine for a diamond.

It's not the difference between a pure-bred with and without papers, imo. It's more like the difference between a purebred and a stuffed animal; you are not even confident that it is a real dog. Reports are not expensive to obtain and are completely routine to get, especially in NYC where most stones have come through. Absence of a report means that the seller is restricting his/her audience to the less knowledgeable or is intent on representing the stone as better than it is. Most are bought for engagement rings so there is no concern over repeat business; retail sellers and diamond-district booths do not need to build relationships with the newly engaged. :D

The selling party invariably "grades" more generously than an independent lab. The difference in price can be many thousands of dollars. You will not be able to

Everything on eBay comes with an "appraisal." That is typically worthless. Almost no jewelers even have the capacity to test for gem authenticity let alone the presence of adulteration. There are a million things that can be done to diamonds now -- like fracture-filling, etc.
Wait 'til I get my money right | Then you can't tell me nothing, right?
hightechburrito
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:15 pm

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by hightechburrito »

Pandemic Bangs wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:11 pm
hightechburrito wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm Regarding a certification (GIA/AGL/etc). It was described to me as getting a certified purebred dog vs. a purebred dog without papers. One will be much more expensive because you have a piece of paper telling you what it is. Getting a certified diamond makes a lot of sense to me if you considered it an investment with the intention to resell at some point, but are you ever going to sell this diamond? That said, I did get a stone with a certification, mainly because it seemed to be the default option from the jeweler.
You always need a report from an independent and well-regarded lab like the ones you mentioned. Always ask if it has a report, not a certificate. Stones are never "certified" -- like a used Toyota. They either have a report or they do not. Top-origin colored stones may need two or three reports from world-class labs. One is fine for a diamond.

It's not the difference between a pure-bred with and without papers, imo. It's more like the difference between a purebred and a stuffed animal; you are not even confident that it is a real dog. Reports are not expensive to obtain and are completely routine to get, especially in NYC where most stones have come through. Absence of a report means that the seller is restricting his/her audience to the less knowledgeable or is intent on representing the stone as better than it is. Most are bought for engagement rings so there is no concern over repeat business; retail sellers and diamond-district booths do not need to build relationships with the newly engaged. :D

The selling party invariably "grades" more generously than an independent lab. The difference in price can be many thousands of dollars. You will not be able to

Everything on eBay comes with an "appraisal." That is typically worthless. Almost no jewelers even have the capacity to test for gem authenticity let alone the presence of adulteration. There are a million things that can be done to diamonds now -- like fracture-filling, etc.

I meant report, not certificate.

Like you said, it's an issue of trust between you and who you're buying from. If you're a repeat customer and trust the seller, you may not need a report. But for a one-off purchase where you'll likely never speak to the seller again, a report is probably worthwhile.

From my research, pretty much all the online diamond sale sites sell only independently graded stones. Probably easier since people buy them sight unseen. So pretty much a non-issue for most engagement ring buyers (most shops won't have the option of non-graded stones).
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eye.surgeon
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by eye.surgeon »

Some thoughts after 28 years of marriage. I bought a >1 carat solitaire diamond ring for my then fiance. She loved it. Several years pass, she worries about wearing it everywhere and buys a high quality fake diamond ring to wear when she doesn't want to wear the real thing. She ends up wearing the fake one every day and actually prefers it. If I had to do it over again we both agree we would have set aside the nonsense social pressures of blowing money on a shiny rock before marriage and just got the fake one. Now I can afford to buy any ring I want for my wife and she's not even remotely interested, she'd way rather spend it on vacations with kids.
"I would rather be certain of a good return than hopeful of a great one" | Warren Buffett
Jags4186
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Jags4186 »

katrid11 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:07 pm Also check just under the 1.5 carat.

Mine is just under and saved my Dh several $1000s b/c 1.49 or 1.48 sells for a lot less (at least in 2009) than the 1.50 or 1.51. Same with 1ct - go for .98 or .95 and the size difference is not perceptible to the human eye but costs less. Mine is E, VVS2 round cut.

As a woman that likes a nice diamond - clearest color is most important then go for VVS2 or even VS1. Don't go below VS1. And only do VS1 if the occlusion is off the side.
I see this advice all the time and it is this odd myth I see repeated over and over. All you need to do is go to the Blue Nile, James Allen, White Flash, etc. websites, and sort identical diamonds (cut, clarity, and color) and give yourself a 0.95 - 1.05 carat range, or a 1.45 - 1.55 carat range and you’ll see the size of the diamond has no effect on the value within that tight a range. You’re not saving money getting 1.48 carats vs. 1.50 carats. Now if you get 0.8 instead of 1 or 1.3 instead of 1.5 then you’ll save money.

In fact, if you go to a chain jewelry store like Jareds or Zales, if you look at the fine print what they advertise as 1 carat usually can fall within a range.
Glockenspiel
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Glockenspiel »

katrid11 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:07 pm
As a woman that likes a nice diamond - clearest color is most important then go for VVS2 or even VS1. Don't go below VS1. And only do VS1 if the occlusion is off the side.
Strongly disagree with this advice. You'll be able to find many stones in the VS2 - SI1 range that are "eye-clean" with no inclusions visible to the naked eye. Cut is far and away the most important and will provide the greatest "sparkle" that everyone wants. F, G, and H color is great for most people. No need to spend the extra money trying to find a D or E color diamond.
stoptothink
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by stoptothink »

eye.surgeon wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:13 pm Some thoughts after 28 years of marriage. I bought a >1 carat solitaire diamond ring for my then fiance. She loved it. Several years pass, she worries about wearing it everywhere and buys a high quality fake diamond ring to wear when she doesn't want to wear the real thing. She ends up wearing the fake one every day and actually prefers it. If I had to do it over again we both agree we would have set aside the nonsense social pressures of blowing money on a shiny rock before marriage and just got the fake one. Now I can afford to buy any ring I want for my wife and she's not even remotely interested, she'd way rather spend it on vacations with kids.
I challenge anybody to find someone who says they should have spent more on an engagement ring. This is a very common story, which pretty much everyone I know who has spent $10k+ on a ring echoes. And at least in my experience, most of the time the bride didn't necessarily want a big diamond to begin with; it was the groom's ego.
Workaholic
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Workaholic »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:31 pm
eye.surgeon wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:13 pm Some thoughts after 28 years of marriage. I bought a >1 carat solitaire diamond ring for my then fiance. She loved it. Several years pass, she worries about wearing it everywhere and buys a high quality fake diamond ring to wear when she doesn't want to wear the real thing. She ends up wearing the fake one every day and actually prefers it. If I had to do it over again we both agree we would have set aside the nonsense social pressures of blowing money on a shiny rock before marriage and just got the fake one. Now I can afford to buy any ring I want for my wife and she's not even remotely interested, she'd way rather spend it on vacations with kids.
I challenge anybody to find someone who says they should have spent more on an engagement ring. This is a very common story, which pretty much everyone I know who has spent $10k+ on a ring echoes. And at least in my experience, most of the time the bride didn't necessarily want a big diamond to begin with; it was the groom's ego.
Actually I would disagree as I know a few people who have "upgraded" their wife's ring over the years. Many times if you get married young and don't necessarily have money to buy something big or fancy, you settle on a modest ring. But as time goes on and income/wealth grows, many times a couple will decide to upgrade a diamond in their engagement ring. Usually they either make the diamond it replaces into a different piece of jewelry. So that would be an instance of what you're saying. Eventually I wouldn't mind upgrading my DW's ring from the current 1 carat size to a 3 carat or so.
Nowizard
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Nowizard »

We purchased ours as a loose diamond and went together to a designer for the ring. Saved considerably and had a very nice memory designing the ring.

Tim
stoptothink
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by stoptothink »

Workaholic wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:49 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:31 pm
eye.surgeon wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:13 pm Some thoughts after 28 years of marriage. I bought a >1 carat solitaire diamond ring for my then fiance. She loved it. Several years pass, she worries about wearing it everywhere and buys a high quality fake diamond ring to wear when she doesn't want to wear the real thing. She ends up wearing the fake one every day and actually prefers it. If I had to do it over again we both agree we would have set aside the nonsense social pressures of blowing money on a shiny rock before marriage and just got the fake one. Now I can afford to buy any ring I want for my wife and she's not even remotely interested, she'd way rather spend it on vacations with kids.
I challenge anybody to find someone who says they should have spent more on an engagement ring. This is a very common story, which pretty much everyone I know who has spent $10k+ on a ring echoes. And at least in my experience, most of the time the bride didn't necessarily want a big diamond to begin with; it was the groom's ego.
Actually I would disagree as I know a few people who have "upgraded" their wife's ring over the years. Many times if you get married young and don't necessarily have money to buy something big or fancy, you settle on a modest ring. But as time goes on and income/wealth grows, many times a couple will decide to upgrade a diamond in their engagement ring. Usually they either make the diamond it replaces into a different piece of jewelry. So that would be an instance of what you're saying. Eventually I wouldn't mind upgrading my DW's ring from the current 1 carat size to a 3 carat or so.
I guess we live in different worlds, I don't think I know anybody that has "upgraded" but I know a whole bunch of people who spent way more than they could afford and regret it. My n=1.
Workaholic
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Workaholic »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:54 pm
Workaholic wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:49 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:31 pm
eye.surgeon wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:13 pm Some thoughts after 28 years of marriage. I bought a >1 carat solitaire diamond ring for my then fiance. She loved it. Several years pass, she worries about wearing it everywhere and buys a high quality fake diamond ring to wear when she doesn't want to wear the real thing. She ends up wearing the fake one every day and actually prefers it. If I had to do it over again we both agree we would have set aside the nonsense social pressures of blowing money on a shiny rock before marriage and just got the fake one. Now I can afford to buy any ring I want for my wife and she's not even remotely interested, she'd way rather spend it on vacations with kids.
I challenge anybody to find someone who says they should have spent more on an engagement ring. This is a very common story, which pretty much everyone I know who has spent $10k+ on a ring echoes. And at least in my experience, most of the time the bride didn't necessarily want a big diamond to begin with; it was the groom's ego.
Actually I would disagree as I know a few people who have "upgraded" their wife's ring over the years. Many times if you get married young and don't necessarily have money to buy something big or fancy, you settle on a modest ring. But as time goes on and income/wealth grows, many times a couple will decide to upgrade a diamond in their engagement ring. Usually they either make the diamond it replaces into a different piece of jewelry. So that would be an instance of what you're saying. Eventually I wouldn't mind upgrading my DW's ring from the current 1 carat size to a 3 carat or so.
I guess we live in different worlds, I don't think I know anybody that has "upgraded" but I know a whole bunch of people who spent way more than they could afford and regret it. My n=1.
You don't know ANYONE that has upgraded a diamond in a ring?! I actually find that surprising as it is fairly common and even many stores offer a "buyback" program where you can get the dollar value of your diamond back if you upgrade to a larger diamond. I don't think it has anything to do with living in a different world as many people get married when they are less financially able to afford a $30,000 ring but only can buy a $3000 one and eventually want to give their spouse something bigger and better than they could originally buy.

That being said I don't think it matters the cost of the stone as much as the thought behind it. However sometimes it is nice to be able to do something like that.
TNWoods
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by TNWoods »

Michael Scott wrote:
You know what they say: "three years' salary."

stoptothink
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by stoptothink »

Workaholic wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:59 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:54 pm
Workaholic wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:49 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:31 pm
eye.surgeon wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:13 pm Some thoughts after 28 years of marriage. I bought a >1 carat solitaire diamond ring for my then fiance. She loved it. Several years pass, she worries about wearing it everywhere and buys a high quality fake diamond ring to wear when she doesn't want to wear the real thing. She ends up wearing the fake one every day and actually prefers it. If I had to do it over again we both agree we would have set aside the nonsense social pressures of blowing money on a shiny rock before marriage and just got the fake one. Now I can afford to buy any ring I want for my wife and she's not even remotely interested, she'd way rather spend it on vacations with kids.
I challenge anybody to find someone who says they should have spent more on an engagement ring. This is a very common story, which pretty much everyone I know who has spent $10k+ on a ring echoes. And at least in my experience, most of the time the bride didn't necessarily want a big diamond to begin with; it was the groom's ego.
Actually I would disagree as I know a few people who have "upgraded" their wife's ring over the years. Many times if you get married young and don't necessarily have money to buy something big or fancy, you settle on a modest ring. But as time goes on and income/wealth grows, many times a couple will decide to upgrade a diamond in their engagement ring. Usually they either make the diamond it replaces into a different piece of jewelry. So that would be an instance of what you're saying. Eventually I wouldn't mind upgrading my DW's ring from the current 1 carat size to a 3 carat or so.
I guess we live in different worlds, I don't think I know anybody that has "upgraded" but I know a whole bunch of people who spent way more than they could afford and regret it. My n=1.
You don't know ANYONE that has upgraded a diamond in a ring?! I actually find that surprising as it is fairly common and even many stores offer a "buyback" program where you can get the dollar value of your diamond back if you upgrade to a larger diamond. I don't think it has anything to do with living in a different world as many people get married when they are less financially able to afford a $30,000 ring but only can buy a $3000 one and eventually want to give their spouse something bigger and better than they could originally buy.

That being said I don't think it matters the cost of the stone as much as the thought behind it. However sometimes it is nice to be able to do something like that.
There may be someone, but not that I am aware of. Then again, I don't surround myself in the real world with people in the same financial situation as most on here. But I have a brother, stepfather, and two of my closest friends who spent way more than they could afford on way more ring than their bride wanted. If I would have just got a ring for my wife, it would have been something totally different (and way more expensive) than she wanted.

Besides, "upgrading" at a later date when you have more resources is different than regretting you didn't spend more in the first place, when you didn't have the resources.
Workaholic
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Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 am

Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Workaholic »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:15 pm
Workaholic wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:59 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:54 pm
Workaholic wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:49 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:31 pm

I challenge anybody to find someone who says they should have spent more on an engagement ring. This is a very common story, which pretty much everyone I know who has spent $10k+ on a ring echoes. And at least in my experience, most of the time the bride didn't necessarily want a big diamond to begin with; it was the groom's ego.
Actually I would disagree as I know a few people who have "upgraded" their wife's ring over the years. Many times if you get married young and don't necessarily have money to buy something big or fancy, you settle on a modest ring. But as time goes on and income/wealth grows, many times a couple will decide to upgrade a diamond in their engagement ring. Usually they either make the diamond it replaces into a different piece of jewelry. So that would be an instance of what you're saying. Eventually I wouldn't mind upgrading my DW's ring from the current 1 carat size to a 3 carat or so.
I guess we live in different worlds, I don't think I know anybody that has "upgraded" but I know a whole bunch of people who spent way more than they could afford and regret it. My n=1.
You don't know ANYONE that has upgraded a diamond in a ring?! I actually find that surprising as it is fairly common and even many stores offer a "buyback" program where you can get the dollar value of your diamond back if you upgrade to a larger diamond. I don't think it has anything to do with living in a different world as many people get married when they are less financially able to afford a $30,000 ring but only can buy a $3000 one and eventually want to give their spouse something bigger and better than they could originally buy.

That being said I don't think it matters the cost of the stone as much as the thought behind it. However sometimes it is nice to be able to do something like that.
There may be someone, but not that I am aware of. Then again, I don't surround myself in the real world with people in the same financial situation as most on here. But I have a brother, stepfather, and two of my closest friends who spent way more than they could afford on way more ring than their bride wanted.
Oh I also agree it's easy to go overboard especially when most stores offer 0% financing for God knows how long. I definitely subscribe to the idea that any purchase like that should be easily affordable and not need a loan to purchase it. The ONLY time I have ever been even remotely tempted (and I wasn't really serious) about buying a ring that would require a loan to purchase (or liquidate my brokerage account) was at the Graff store in Paris. It was the MOST BEAUTIFUL cocktail ring I've even seen in my life- a large ruby surrounded by diamonds in Platinum setting. It was absolutely exquisite in every measure of the word. I want to say the asking price was somewhere around $180,000. Blew my mind away but I came back to earth fairly quickly...unfortunately for my wife :wink: .
NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by NotWhoYouThink »

Some of my younger relatives are concerned about diamond mining, and I dislike cartels so don't like to support them by buying diamonds. When my diamond stud earring got lost I went to a jeweler who had done some lovely things for the community and bought a pair of lab grown diamond earrings. They are bright and sparkly and well-engineered and well-manufactured, and were about 2/3 the cost of similar sized diamonds that were "earring quality."

So if you want to show off your technical acumen or virtue signal about your concern for forced labor, consider going high tech.
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illumination
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by illumination »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:31 pm
eye.surgeon wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:13 pm Some thoughts after 28 years of marriage. I bought a >1 carat solitaire diamond ring for my then fiance. She loved it. Several years pass, she worries about wearing it everywhere and buys a high quality fake diamond ring to wear when she doesn't want to wear the real thing. She ends up wearing the fake one every day and actually prefers it. If I had to do it over again we both agree we would have set aside the nonsense social pressures of blowing money on a shiny rock before marriage and just got the fake one. Now I can afford to buy any ring I want for my wife and she's not even remotely interested, she'd way rather spend it on vacations with kids.
I challenge anybody to find someone who says they should have spent more on an engagement ring. This is a very common story, which pretty much everyone I know who has spent $10k+ on a ring echoes. And at least in my experience, most of the time the bride didn't necessarily want a big diamond to begin with; it was the groom's ego.
I would agree with the regret on an expensive ring, but not so sure it's all about the groom's ego, I think there's some bride ego in there as well.

I would also add the people that spend huge sums on a wedding usually have a lot of regret. I felt so bad for my wife's parents, but it was their decision to throw a lavish wedding. Over in a blink of an eye, and for most people a complete blur.

One of my favorite weddings was also one of the cheapest, some friends that got married on a beach.
andypanda
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by andypanda »

I bought a 1.5+ carat engagement ring from Whiteflash a little over 2 years ago and do not regret it at all. It's an F/VVS2 and very nice. She's getting diamond stud earrings from WF for her birthday.

I highly recommend them.

Tiffany gives you a nice blue box though. Our rings from WF came in nicely finished wooden boxes.
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Kagord
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Kagord »

illumination wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:42 pm
stoptothink wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:31 pm
eye.surgeon wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:13 pm Some thoughts after 28 years of marriage. I bought a >1 carat solitaire diamond ring for my then fiance. She loved it. Several years pass, she worries about wearing it everywhere and buys a high quality fake diamond ring to wear when she doesn't want to wear the real thing. She ends up wearing the fake one every day and actually prefers it. If I had to do it over again we both agree we would have set aside the nonsense social pressures of blowing money on a shiny rock before marriage and just got the fake one. Now I can afford to buy any ring I want for my wife and she's not even remotely interested, she'd way rather spend it on vacations with kids.
I challenge anybody to find someone who says they should have spent more on an engagement ring. This is a very common story, which pretty much everyone I know who has spent $10k+ on a ring echoes. And at least in my experience, most of the time the bride didn't necessarily want a big diamond to begin with; it was the groom's ego.
I would agree with the regret on an expensive ring, but not so sure it's all about the groom's ego, I think there's some bride ego in there as well.

I would also add the people that spend huge sums on a wedding usually have a lot of regret. I felt so bad for my wife's parents, but it was their decision to throw a lavish wedding. Over in a blink of an eye, and for most people a complete blur.

One of my favorite weddings was also one of the cheapest, some friends that got married on a beach.
I actually regret what a blur it was, had the bachelor party the night before, so I was kind of out of it the next day, we did a really nice wedding on the cheap, maybe $5K in the early nineties.

Anyways, there's other ways to show love besides spending $50K, and if it actually takes $50K to get someone to say yes, I'd reassess the long term impacts of that. Puppy love wears off quick in 5 years and transforms into another type of love, if things go well, which is apparently 50/50 these days.
Outer Marker
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Outer Marker »

delamer wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:31 pm Good experience with Blue Nile. Their website is easy to use.
+1 on BlueNile. Excellent quality, value, and service. The stone itself is where all the value is, and they are a commodity product. Don't overpay for the Tiffany brand.

Likewise, I hope you don't get pulled in by the hype of the wedding industry. It is designed to shamefully part young people from their money when they need it most. Everything is marked up 2x or more if its "bridal." From flowers to hairdo's. You can have a really nice wedding for $5,000.
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Lethal
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Lethal »

I used Whiteflash about 5 years ago for the engagement ring and had a good experience.
Charon
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Charon »

alfaspider wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:30 am Only trained jewelers are going to tell the difference between a nice moissanite and a $20k+ tiffany ring.
+1 for moissanite. The only way to visually tell moissanite from diamond is that the moissanite is prettier (more fire), but even that requires having two identical-cut stones next to each other to tell. I got a moissanite center stone put in a setting I custom designed with a local jeweler, and now my wife has a gorgeous, unique ring, and we got a luxurious month-long oversees vacation where I could propose, and we still have money left over vs. a visually identical diamond. (We're talking $400 for a moissanite equivalent to a diamond that would have cost $15k on Blue Nile and $30k at Tiffany.) Moissanite is harder than anything but a diamond, and is more resistant to chipping than diamond is.

However, not everyone would be okay with that. If she needs diamond, I'd recommend lab diamond, which is cheaper (and more environmentally friendly) than mined, but legit actual diamond instead of a different stone like moissanite.
Charon
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Charon »

ResearchMed wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:10 pm This (not just this post... the thread) is again starting to dump on someone wanting an expensive ring, but it's worse than the fancy watch, because there is some sexism included, with all sorts of other characteristics being implied.

There aren't reactions quite like this when someone is asking about a moderately expensive car ("moderately" being in the mind of the beholder, etc.).
OP is proposing to spend 20 times what I did for a ring, and I didn't cheap out. OP is proposing to spend 200 times what some people on this thread did on a ring.

This is like buying a million-dollar car.

Are there people who can afford that? Sure. But if they asked for advice on that purchase from strangers on the internet, they would get... feedback. This is Bogleheads, after all. We wouldn't be Bogleheads if we supported people buying Bugatti Veyrons. Although more relevantly for this discussion, we're talking about Bugatti slapping their logo on a Corolla and doubling the price (or more). By all means pay for something better... but beware of when the "better" thing is not, in fact, better.
Cruise
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Cruise »

aamr wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:38 pm Am I thinking about this right? Anybody have any other advice about buying engagement rings?
Without mentioning rings or weddings, ask you fiance what she would do with $40K if it suddenly fell in her lap. If the first thing out of her mouth is "Buy a ring!," you may have a host of issues to consider. If she says "Invest in ETFs!," you might breathe easier. Her answer can help both you and her assess your mutual priorities. Perhaps after that discussion, having a flashy ring won't be something that will be all-consuming.

Skip the diamond. Really, buy a platinum wedding band instead. Very functional and relatively rare. (That is what we splurged on 40 years ago. My wife never expressed a hint of remorse that she did not acquire a diamond engagement ring).

Good luck.
elle
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by elle »

Workaholic wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:51 pm
jaj2276 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:56 am I bought my engagement ring at Costco. Paid $7k for a 1ct. Has the GIA certificate. Not sure why someone would pay higher for a designer name except my brother-in-law is about to be on his second fiancee (first one left him about 3 months after the marriage) and both times his then-girlfriends expressed their desire to only want a designer diamond ring.
I think your brother should reassess the women he is dating :greedy . I mean it can easily become a slippery slope.

I'd be curious to poll 100 women and see if they would rather have a 1 carat ring from Tiffany or a 1.5 carat ring from a no-name store. With, of course, the diamonds in both rings being equal in their quality and scoring.
Is this an option? 1 carat ring no name and save the excess money for vacay? :)
Workaholic
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Workaholic »

Charon wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:12 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:10 pm This (not just this post... the thread) is again starting to dump on someone wanting an expensive ring, but it's worse than the fancy watch, because there is some sexism included, with all sorts of other characteristics being implied.

There aren't reactions quite like this when someone is asking about a moderately expensive car ("moderately" being in the mind of the beholder, etc.).
Are there people who can afford that? Sure. But if they asked for advice on that purchase from strangers on the internet, they would get... feedback. This is Bogleheads, after all. We wouldn't be Bogleheads if we supported people buying Bugatti Veyrons.
I have yet to understand what being a Boglehead has to do with purchasing luxury items? If I so want to spend my disposable income on an expensive vehicle/watch/house/etc...does that not make me a Boglehead? I thought Bogleheads were concerned with investing in low-cost index funds, taking advantage of tax-efficient accounts, and living below your means. I never saw any tenet of being a Boglehead concerning how you spend your "fun" money.
alfaspider
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by alfaspider »

Charon wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:58 pm
alfaspider wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:30 am Only trained jewelers are going to tell the difference between a nice moissanite and a $20k+ tiffany ring.
+1 for moissanite. The only way to visually tell moissanite from diamond is that the moissanite is prettier (more fire), but even that requires having two identical-cut stones next to each other to tell. I got a moissanite center stone put in a setting I custom designed with a local jeweler, and now my wife has a gorgeous, unique ring, and we got a luxurious month-long oversees vacation where I could propose, and we still have money left over vs. a visually identical diamond. (We're talking $400 for a moissanite equivalent to a diamond that would have cost $15k on Blue Nile and $30k at Tiffany.) Moissanite is harder than anything but a diamond, and is more resistant to chipping than diamond is.

However, not everyone would be okay with that. If she needs diamond, I'd recommend lab diamond, which is cheaper (and more environmentally friendly) than mined, but legit actual diamond instead of a different stone like moissanite.
Right. Moissanite works if the wearer doesn't actually care but doesn't want to buck tradition too much. But the cultural tradition is at least in party a show of devotion by being willing to spend money on an otherwise pointless bauble. Some folks don't want to undercut the symbolism of spending a lot of money on a ring and hence feel strongly that the diamond should be real. Insisting on name brand just takes it up a notch.
JackoC
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by JackoC »

Workaholic wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:40 am
Charon wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:12 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:10 pm This (not just this post... the thread) is again starting to dump on someone wanting an expensive ring, but it's worse than the fancy watch, because there is some sexism included, with all sorts of other characteristics being implied.

There aren't reactions quite like this when someone is asking about a moderately expensive car ("moderately" being in the mind of the beholder, etc.).
Are there people who can afford that? Sure. But if they asked for advice on that purchase from strangers on the internet, they would get... feedback. This is Bogleheads, after all. We wouldn't be Bogleheads if we supported people buying Bugatti Veyrons.
I have yet to understand what being a Boglehead has to do with purchasing luxury items? If I so want to spend my disposable income on an expensive vehicle/watch/house/etc...does that not make me a Boglehead? I thought Bogleheads were concerned with investing in low-cost index funds, taking advantage of tax-efficient accounts, and living below your means. I never saw any tenet of being a Boglehead concerning how you spend your "fun" money.
Obviously you're correct strictly logically. But the previous post contains a clue to the answer. Without a person providing their exact financial situation, there's an assumption it's within some range, or even a tendency for the responding poster to assume it's similar to their own. Probably few people who post here regularly could easily afford a Bugatti (a few $mil, I recall at least one person saying they could stretch to buy one, not necessarily that it was easily affordable). But for people who can, there is no contraction between buying one and any written idea of BH'ism. This would be more obvious if a Lamborghini Huracan (ca. $300k) were used as example instead. A still relatively small but non-negligible % of posters here can easily afford cars like that if they want them. Some other posters seem to believe the absolute price proves it's not 'BH like' but I agree with you there is no validity to that idea in terms of the written principals of 'BHism'.
Cautionary Tale
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Cautionary Tale »

joebruin77 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:23 pm Don't laugh, but I would personally check out the rings offered by Costco. Like any other product they carry, Costco tends to carry excellent quality rings at or near wholesale prices.

For example, I just checked their website. Here is an example of a ring currenlty offered on their website:

Round Brilliant 1.83 ctw VVS1 Clarity, G Color Diamond Platinum Wedding Ring
(round center diamond is 1.56 ct)
Item 1276369
Your Price $17,499.99$
Shipping & Handling Included
GIA Included

And although I am a romantic at heart and hope for the best, just in case she says no, Costco has an excellent return policy :D
Only on bogleheads would you find a recommendation to buy an engagement ring at Costco. Does Walmart offer engagement rings these days as well?
sport
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by sport »

Cautionary Tale wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:04 pm Only on bogleheads would you find a recommendation to buy an engagement ring at Costco. Does Walmart offer engagement rings these days as well?
Don't underestimate Costco. I don't believe you will find anything like this at Walmart:

https://www.costco.com/round-brilliant- ... 76436.html
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Plano
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Plano »

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but don’t forget to consider your future wife’s occupation. In some jobs, you can’t wear the typical engagement ring (surgeons, dentists, chefs, anyone who works with her hands). You can’t just leave your ring in a locker when you scrub in. Well, you can...but I don’t recommend it. If she’s never been married before, or she doesn’t have any married women friends at work, this may not have occurred to her. Even low-profile settings can snag latex gloves.

That said, in my opinion, the only one who can suggest getting a sensible ring is your future wife. If she says, “No, I don’t want a big diamond...I would prefer something functional,” then you can silently cheer. But out loud you should say something like, “Are you sure? I want everyone to know how much I love you and value you...” It’s important that she be the cheap one, not you — not for something so traditionally symbolic.

One of my friends proposed with a toy ring, with an appointment card for Tiffany inside the box. Online, he showed her the extravagant ring he wanted to get. She chose something very different and much cheaper.
biscuits
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by biscuits »

My taste runs to Art Deco diamond rings. Fortunately for my husband, I'd inherited one and said, "Let's use this."

But if I hadn't inherited one, I would have been looking around for something old. I like old things, and I like knowing that at least no currently living people mined my diamond.

Look what you can get for $8,500 if you go for vintage/antique:

https://ericaweiner.com/collections/eng ... ilogy-ring

More here:

https://ericaweiner.com/collections/engagement/
Jeepergeo
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Re: Engagement Ring

Post by Jeepergeo »

MrBobcat wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:50 pm I'm so glad I was poor when I got married. 1/3 carat engagement ring at JC Penny's - $230, which so far has worked out to $7.18/year.

That being said I'd second the look at Costco.
+1. Great analysis and story. Thanks.

My wife's original ring set me back $2500 which was a lot for me at the time. She even went and picked it up at the jewelery store because I was in the hospital and we had already seen the ring she liked.

Fast forward 30 great years, I wanted to get her an upgrade. We set a budget of $15000 and set out to shop. She fell in love with a $5000 ring even after comparing it to rings in the $15000 to $20000 range, and she still wears that new ring 6 years later. She will on occasion still wear the first ring just to rekindle the memories.

Bottom line: engage her in the shopping and buying process since she will wear the thing for a long time, and don't overspend beyond your means.

Good luck and congratulations.
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