Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

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mksanjay
Posts: 162
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Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by mksanjay »

Hello All,

I'm looking to buy a van or suv(preferably used). I was focusing my attention on either a Honda Odyssey or Hyundai Palisade. A 2 year old Honda Odyssey(Touring or EX) is approximately in the range of 30k. What got my attention recently was that a brand new Tesla Model Y is 43K. Only 13k more, but has more features than a Honda Odyssey and is new. I test drove a Model Y, and the ride, features(# of cameras, seating, comfort, drive) are incomparable to a Honda. Given all the features that come with a Tesla, it seems to be a better buy.

I've looked at other vehicles (Audi or Benz) and the prices on those are unaffordable or no good value.(>50k new, Used is >$30k with 50k miles on it)

Is there something I'm missing? Any replies or view points are appreciated.

Thanks!
02nz
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by 02nz »

Look into state/local incentives for EVs, which may bring down the price further. Here in CA, for example, the Model Y (Standard Range) would be cheaper than a decently equipped Odyssey for most buyers. However, the Odyssey is a much more spacious vehicle, and if you need to regularly put anyone other than small children in the third row, it's the way to go. (Note that the third row on the Y is a $3K upcharge.)
Normchad
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Normchad »

Most people who would want an Odyssey, would not want a Model Y, and vice versa. They are extremely different, in terms of the characteristics they each possess, that people covet.

IMO, both are great choices. But if I had 2 kids, I'd buy the Odyssey. If I wanted to haul lumber, etc, I'd buy the Odyssey.

I'd buy the Model Y if you want something a swoosh bigger than a small sedan. It's just not an SUV..... It's great, but it's not an SUV..... It's more like a slightly taller small wagon.

But for you, just go check each one out and decide for yourself which one fits your needs.
killjoy2012
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by killjoy2012 »

Completely different types of cars. Not sure how you go from a van or large SUV to a model y (small) as if you're comparing apples to apples. Model X would the closest thing and that smaller too.
Vanguard Fan 1367
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Vanguard Fan 1367 »

I would go with the Honda. Others have given good reasons. The one Honda I have owned gave me good service. They have a reputation for dependability.
John Bogle: "It's amazing how difficult it is for a man to understand something if he's paid a small fortune not to understand it."
joebruin77
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by joebruin77 »

I drive a Tesla Model 3 and my wife drives a Honda Accord, so I know a thing or two about comparing the two makes.

Perhaps the most important question is, how far away do you live from the nearest Tesla Service Center? Although I have had no major problems with my Tesla, I would never consider owning a Tesla unless there was a service center reasonably close to me. Sooner or later you will have a problem and need a service or repair. You don't want a Tesla if your nearest service center is several hours away.

In terms of cost, I would personally make an Excel spreadsheet comparing ALL of the estimated costs over a 5 year period. The Tesla may cost more upfront, but you will likely save a lot of money over time. For example, there are articles showing that a Tesla Model 3 is cheaper to own than a Camry or Accord over a 5 year period, even though the Tesla costs several thousand more at the time of purchase. Remember with the Tesla, there are no oil changes, tune ups, timing belts, etc. You may never need to change the brake pads either since most of the braking is done via the regenerative braking through the motors.

I would get insurance quotes for each car. Also take into consideration how much your fuel bill will be with each car. My previous car was a Subaru WRX. I estimate I am saving a net $200 a month in gas savings. Also consider how much it will cost to set up your home for charging. Consider not just the cost for the charger (technically it is called a Tesla Wall Connector) or a 14-50 Nema outlet, but also if there are any tax incentives and power company rebates. My local utility gave me a $500 rebate once I installed my Tesla Wall Connector (cost $500), so my net cost was only the labor to pay an electriian to install it.
Normchad
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Normchad »

joebruin77 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:20 pm I drive a Tesla Model 3 and my wife drives a Honda Accord, so I know a thing or two about comparing the two makes.

Perhaps the most important question is, how far away do you live from the nearest Tesla Service Center? Although I have had no major problems with my Tesla, I would never consider owning a Tesla unless there was a service center reasonably close to me. Sooner or later you will have a problem and need a service or repair. You don't want a Tesla if your nearest service center is several hours away.

In terms of cost, I would personally make an Excel spreadsheet comparing ALL of the estimated costs over a 5 year period. The Tesla may cost more upfront, but you will likely save a lot of money over time. For example, there are articles showing that a Tesla Model 3 is cheaper to own than a Camry or Accord over a 5 year period, even though the Tesla costs several thousand more at the time of purchase. Remember with the Tesla, there are no oil changes, tune ups, timing belts, etc. You may never need to change the brake pads either since most of the braking is done via the regenerative braking through the motors.

I would get insurance quotes for each car. Also take into consideration how much your fuel bill will be with each car. My previous car was a Subaru WRX. I estimate I am saving a net $200 a month in gas savings. Also consider how much it will cost to set up your home for charging. Consider not just the cost for the charger (technically it is called a Tesla Wall Connector) or a 14-50 Nema outlet, but also if there are any tax incentives and power company rebates. My local utility gave me a $500 rebate once I installed my Tesla Wall Connector (cost $500), so my net cost was only the labor to pay an electriian to install it.
This is outstanding advice. Especially regarding the distance to the service center. I also have a Honda and a Tesla, and this writeup is spot-on!
fundseeker
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by fundseeker »

A minivan, an SUV, or a sedan? That's apples to oranges, isn't it? What about a pickup? I think you have a long way to go before you're ready to buy a vehicle. Once you narrow it down to the type of vehicle you want, e.g., minivan, then you might some real insight from owners here.
neb2020
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by neb2020 »

Wow... are you guys missing something big here? What's with all the Honda love?

I own a Honda, and I would get the Tesla if it was cheaper. And Tesla have reduced the price of their cars over the years, while normal car manufacturers have increased their prices. If the Tesla is about the same as a Honda in price, it's a no brainer.

NONE of the car manufacturers have anything as close to Tesla autopilot tech right now, and probably will never be able to catch up in any reasonable time (up to 5 yrs). Tesla autopilot makes it a no brainer. My Honda will reach 8 yrs old in about 2-3 yrs from now, if Tesla drops their price to be comparable to Honda... it's Tesla all the way. Hopefully by then the self-driving tech will be mature.
angelescrest
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by angelescrest »

mksanjay wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:46 pm Is there something I'm missing?
Yes, you really don’t know what type of vehicle you need. As has been pointed out, those two vehicles are nothing alike, so advice about which is best won’t help unless you provide more information as to your needs. I’m a Tesla admirer, but we have a minivan that could never be replaced by a Y, which is very small in comparison. For all our errands and for transporting kids, I absolutely love both the Odyssey and the Sienna.

If you want something with better gas mileage and arguably more eco friendly, are you aware that the new 2021 Toyota Sienna only comes as a hybrid now? I think it’s worth a look.
DH0
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by DH0 »

Check out the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid in Limited trim. Be prepared for snarky remarks about FCA reliability but it's the closest you can get at the moment to a fully electric minivan so in some respects a cross between the Y and Odyssey. With Chrysler's recent discounts (~$13k off MSRP) plus the federal tax credit ($7500) + state and local credits you should be able to get one brand new in Limited trim, for $26–27k + tax.
Lexx
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Lexx »

We recently test drove a Tesla Model X to replace my wife's 2014 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite. While the Tesla had much more power and of course much more advanced electronics, the build quality was extremely poor. Interior and exterior panels were poorly fitted. The B pillar had a trim piece that was completely cockeyed with a giant gap. The hood wouldn't latch correctly. Body panel gaps wer uneven.

We had thought the Falcon wing doors would be cool. But after reading reviews online and experience them, I'm not impressed. They're very slow to operate compared to the power sliding doors of the van. When you have them open in the rain, the roof cutout allows a ton of rain to come in. In fact, a common complaint is a lot of water falls onto the passengers when you open the falcon wing doors.

The 3rd row of the Model X is tight. The sloping rear hatch means the horizontal pillar across the width of the vehicle can easily hit your forehead when you lean forward. I wouldn't want to sit back there for very long. Also the big glass area means your 3rd row passengers are going to roast on a hot day.

To make matters worse, as we were pulling back into the dealer after the test drive and trying to find a space to park the car, a lady in another Model X pulled up and parked next to us. We spoke to her about her car. She stated that her vehicle had been out of commission for months due to a broken rear window. Tesla has a huge parts shortage issue and could not provide her with a replacement. They would make her an appointment with service only to later on cancel it. She also had another issue that rendered the car not safe to drive. Through it all, Tesla only offered her Uber credits. They had no loaner vehicles to offer, which for her was unacceptable since she relied on her car for her job. If you go onto the Tesla forums, this customer's experience is not unusual. JD Powers ranks Tesla as the 2nd least reliable vehicle only falling behind Land Rover.

When I inquired on the insurance for the Tesla it was 2.5x the cost to insure compared to the Odyssey. Our Odyssey in comparison has never spent a day out of service. It's only been fed oil changes and routine maintenance. We traveled multiple times on multi-thousand mile road trips without issue. The IIHS rates the Odyssey tops in safety.

Considering the cost differential and the potential headaches the Tesla, we decided to keep our Odyssey and when the time comes, we will replace with either another Odyssey or a full sized SUV. Tesla is pumping out cars trying to prop up its stock price, but they're not paying attention on the back end. Service complaints abound. The parking lot at the dealer was overflowing with cars waiting for service - so much that cars were double and triple parked. Thanks but no thanks!
Pandemic Bangs
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Pandemic Bangs »

I think there is officially a BH head-to-head for every vehicle vs. an unrelated Tesla. :D

Biggest reason to get a van is to effortlessly transport six or seven.

With two kids, you will be amazed how often you will have six in the vehicle. Our kids always brought a friend on road trips or there were grandparents, etc. Always carpools for games, meets, school. How much do you expect to be a part of their lives?

I am not super-familiar with the Y but it is not like a van from everything I have seen -- vestigial third row.

I think the subtitle here is "I really, really wanna Tesla." I get it. Veteran of two Odysseys here (= two decades). Spouse just upgraded to an EV. Time and a place for everything.
Wait 'til I get my money right | Then you can't tell me nothing, right?
bantam222
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by bantam222 »

I have Honda Accord hybrid touring model (top trim). I think it cost around 43k out the door around 18mo ago.

It seems on par with Tesla’s in that price range. It is very nice. The radar cruise control is very nice. Can get on the freeway and just cruise without any work.
kiwi123
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by kiwi123 »

Chrysler Pacifica Plug In Hybrid... if you don't need AWD. 30miles electric range, and mid/high 30's mpg the rest of the time. And more space than the Tesla Y and much better build quality.

If you need AWD, then another option is the Toyota Sienna Hybrid or Highlander Hybrid (or the Kia and Hyundai equivalents).

I guess you need to decide what you really want...
sd323232
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by sd323232 »

if you can afford tesla, buy tesla. otherwise, honda
bwalling
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by bwalling »

I drive a Model 3. It's fantastic. I'll likely never buy another gas powered car again (and I love the BMW M3 to death). I love the self driving aspects (note this is an expensive extra).

However, it's not a minivan. When our kids were younger, we had a Toyota Sienna for 12 years, and it ran great still when we decided to part with it. Totally different vehicle than an SUV, frankly. Very useful for people with kids. If you don't have kids, I'm not sure why you'd consider one.

You're comparing apples and oranges. As others have said, figure out what your needs are.
burritoLover
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by burritoLover »

Model Y has had a lot of early teething issues. I would wait a few years on that one. If you are cross-shopping an Odyssey and a Model Y, you may want to educate yourself on what's available out there and figure out what your priorities are - those choices might as well be in different galaxies.
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Why not a Miata? Fun, better on gas, fits better in a garage and parking space.

I mean, with the differences in the cars you're comparing, this isn't all that far off.
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jharkin
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by jharkin »

angelescrest wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:39 am
mksanjay wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:46 pm Is there something I'm missing?
Yes, you really don’t know what type of vehicle you need.

This. A Tesla is not just another car, its a major lifestyle change from what you are used to with gas cars.

Have you thought about how you will setup your house for charging?
Have you figured out how often you will drive it outside of its basic charge range? And how you will recharge on those long trips?
Have you accounted for the fact that if you wake up one morning and forgot to charge you can't just run to the gas station and take a long trip?
Have you thought about planning trips around change station availability?
Have you thought about adapting to "fuel up stops" that may take a couple hours, rather than 5 minutes?

And so on...
hamhocs
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by hamhocs »

If you go Odyssey, make sure you listen very carefully before buying. I had a 2019 for a year and couldn't stand it anymore.

https://www.odyclub.com/threads/rattle- ... ed.347853/
humblecoder
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by humblecoder »

mksanjay wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:46 pm Hello All,

I'm looking to buy a van or suv(preferably used). I was focusing my attention on either a Honda Odyssey or Hyundai Palisade. A 2 year old Honda Odyssey(Touring or EX) is approximately in the range of 30k. What got my attention recently was that a brand new Tesla Model Y is 43K. Only 13k more, but has more features than a Honda Odyssey and is new. I test drove a Model Y, and the ride, features(# of cameras, seating, comfort, drive) are incomparable to a Honda. Given all the features that come with a Tesla, it seems to be a better buy.

I've looked at other vehicles (Audi or Benz) and the prices on those are unaffordable or no good value.(>50k new, Used is >$30k with 50k miles on it)

Is there something I'm missing? Any replies or view points are appreciated.

Thanks!
As others have mentioned, comparing a minivan or large SUV to a Model Y is apples to oranges, so I won't pile on. :happy

When the Model Y came out, I actually put it on my list of potential next cars. I drive a compact SUV currently (RAV4), so a Model Y is in the ballpark in terms of size/utility. I've been following several Model Y forums and newsgroups to get some inside details. There are two big items that would hold me back from getting a Model Y as my next car:

1. Build quality: It is pretty well established that the Tesla Model Y is known for build quality issues: panel gaps, trim issues, paint issues, etc. While most of those issues end up getting solved by the service center post delivery, it does make you wonder their quality control that they would let vehicles like this get into consumer's hands. If they seem to care so little about the visible issues, how much care are they putting into the systems that actually matter to a car.

2. Putting form over function: The largest example is the touchscreen. The center touchscreen concept is pretty cool looking but it isn't functional at all, and it could be downright hazardous. Need to know your speed? You need to turn your head right and down to view to touchscreen. Need to turn on your wipers? You need to find it on the panel. Need to look at your left blind spot monitor indicator? You need to look to the right at the touchscreen (as opposed to the left as you naturally would).

Another lesser know example are the windows. My understand are that the windows are frameless so when you open the door, the windows are programmed to drop slightly so that the door will open without hitting the door trim. Then when you close the door, the windows go up so that they are "locked" into the door trim (hard to explain without pictures). There are reports that sometimes the windows don't drop properly (particularly in cold weather), which causes the windows to scratch the door trim or even to break the window when you open the door. If you google "model Y frameless windows", it will make more sense, as I am afraid that my written explanation may not do the issue justice! :happy

My point is that there are design decisions that seem to have been made to be "cute" or "different" for lack of a better word. For a company that prides itself on being "engineering first", these items are odd to say the least.

That said, I give Tesla credit for changing the conversation on EV's. Prior to Tesla, a EV was always considered to be a compromise: small, slow, short range. Tesla's have made EV's cool and desirable. Credit where credit is due.

I am now intrigued by the Ford Mustang Model-E. That car is a bit divisive since Mustang purists don't consider it to be a Mustang and shouldn't be badged as such. Fortunately, I am not a purist. :happy I am intrigued because I am hopefully it has all of the Tesla EV goodness without all of the baggage noted above. Plus it is still eligible for the $7500 Federal EV tax credit!
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F150HD
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by F150HD »

We recently test drove a Tesla Model X... the build quality was extremely poor. Interior and exterior panels were poorly fitted. The B pillar had a trim piece that was completely cockeyed with a giant gap. The hood wouldn't latch correctly. Body panel gaps wer uneven.

In fact, a common complaint is a lot of water falls onto the passengers when you open the falcon wing doors.


...She stated that her vehicle had been out of commission for months due to a broken rear window. Tesla has a huge parts shortage issue and could not provide her with a replacement....If you go onto the Tesla forums, this customer's experience is not unusual.

...JD Powers ranks Tesla as the 2nd least reliable vehicle only falling behind Land Rover.

When I inquired on the insurance for the Tesla it was 2.5x the cost to insure compared to the Odyssey. Our Odyssey in comparison has never spent a day out of service...

...Tesla is pumping out cars trying to prop up its stock price, but they're not paying attention on the back end. Service complaints abound. The parking lot at the dealer was overflowing with cars waiting for service - so much that cars were double and triple parked. Thanks but no thanks!
Hard to ignore. caveat emptor. Honda all day.
mrmass
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by mrmass »

Tesla is a tech company. Honda is car company.
bwalling
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by bwalling »

jharkin wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:43 amThis. A Tesla is not just another car, its a major lifestyle change from what you are used to with gas cars.

Have you thought about how you will setup your house for charging?
Have you figured out how often you will drive it outside of its basic charge range? And how you will recharge on those long trips?
Have you accounted for the fact that if you wake up one morning and forgot to charge you can't just run to the gas station and take a long trip?
Have you thought about planning trips around change station availability?
Have you thought about adapting to "fuel up stops" that may take a couple hours, rather than 5 minutes?

And so on...
Huh? You can charge from your house with a Tesla charger, another brand charger, or a wall outlet. You can charge at all sorts of places. When you take a trip, the car will plan the charging stops for you. They're not "hours" by any means.

Range anxiety is a thing, but it's a thing you get over within a few weeks once you acclimate. It's a really minor change.

Unless you're in a highly rural area, charging availability isn't a concern.
SEAworld9
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by SEAworld9 »

model y performance owner here. thought I would chime in since I actually own one. many of the comments are not 100% accurate or are internet hyperbole. for instance:

- build quality: at the beginning it was hit and miss. Since fall the cars have been extremely good.Mine was perfect and delivered when they said it would. Also I’ve never seen so many people become vehicle inspection experts overnight.
- wipers: there are controls on the screen, however most just have them set to auto. if you press the button on the end of the left stalk it wipes the windows. and you can double click the right scroll button on the wheel and use a voice command. none require you to take you eyes off the road. The screen is extremely intuitive and convenient.
- insurance: just call your insurance company to get an actual quote. I’m paying about $76/month. This is $9 more per month than my 2004 Infiniti fx45 and $13 more than the 1999 Infiniti QX4 that the model Y replaced. I’m 37.
- charging: yes, it’s best to get a charger or nema 14-50 installed at home. but some make it out to be some herculean task. It’s not. and no, it’s not like it’s some big challenge to remember to plug it in and you’re not running it to near empty every day. the convenience of having a metaphorical gas station at your house is amazing.
- rear seat room: very large. go sit in one. Large enough that they were able to make a seven seat version with a third row. however the third row looks very small (not for adults for long periods) especially since you’re essentially sharing the legroom of the second row with the sliding seat mechanism.
- service: you mainly hear about the service instances that are not good vs the ones that are. Proximity to an SC is a consideration, though if you buy a Tesla while living 500 miles from one and then complain about the distance that’s kind of on you. Mobile service is also a huge benefit. I had to take my wife’s car in to a Mazda dealer this weekend for a recall that easily could have been done in our driveway.

One of the main reasons we got this car is safety as we start our family. The model Y just received a 5-star NHTSA safety rating and has the lowest rollover risk of any SUV in history: https://insideevs.com/news/466219/tesla ... lover/amp/

I’m not saying tesla does not have its warts and some people do have poor experiences vs their expectations, but that doesn’t mean that everything sucks. All manufacturers do things wrong sometimes. I don’t see anyone complaining about polestar - they just had to recall every single polestar 2 they’ve ever made due to software issues that shut down the car. boglehead-beloved Toyota was violating EPA regulations for over a decade, were not reporting defects, and took steps to evade oversight, and now they’re going to pay the largest fine ever for CAA violations: https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/united ... ance-clean
https://www.arstechnica.com/cars/2021/0 ... -epa-regs/

Honda just had to recall 1.79 million cars for four separate safety issues including software problems, driveshafts, and the potential for cars to catch on fire: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hond ... SKBN28P371


so no, no car or manufacturer is 100% perfect all time. tesla does get through teething issues very quickly and the continuous improvement to not only software but also hardware and components is great (though something you have to track if there’s a feature you want, like heated steering wheel). The model Y and the odyssey are good cars and you should get what you want and if you seek opinions, my stance is to get them from people who own them. My review: the Tesla is amazing.
Last edited by SEAworld9 on Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jack Burton
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Jack Burton »

hamhocs wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:02 am If you go Odyssey, make sure you listen very carefully before buying. I had a 2019 for a year and couldn't stand it anymore.

https://www.odyclub.com/threads/rattle- ... ed.347853/
We looked at the new generation Odyssey but found it had lots of potential problems. Not to mention Honda’s VCM is just an overall horrible idea. We went with a 2018 Sienna - outdated yes, but is way likelier to be a super reliable tank for a decade or more.
j9j
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by j9j »

A bit of a odd comparison. Odyssey is a spacious people mover with conventional engine. Model Y is a premium 4-5 person electric only SUV.

Maybe the new Toyota Sienna would be a consideration. hybrid only and gets 36 mpg in spacious minivan form.

Depending on the trim is in the same pricing ballpark.
7eight9
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by 7eight9 »

bwalling wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:39 am
jharkin wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:43 amThis. A Tesla is not just another car, its a major lifestyle change from what you are used to with gas cars.

Have you thought about how you will setup your house for charging?
Have you figured out how often you will drive it outside of its basic charge range? And how you will recharge on those long trips?
Have you accounted for the fact that if you wake up one morning and forgot to charge you can't just run to the gas station and take a long trip?
Have you thought about planning trips around change station availability?
Have you thought about adapting to "fuel up stops" that may take a couple hours, rather than 5 minutes?

And so on...
Huh? You can charge from your house with a Tesla charger, another brand charger, or a wall outlet. You can charge at all sorts of places. When you take a trip, the car will plan the charging stops for you. They're not "hours" by any means.

Range anxiety is a thing, but it's a thing you get over within a few weeks once you acclimate. It's a really minor change.

Unless you're in a highly rural area, charging availability isn't a concern.
The New York Times had an article in June 2019 titled L.A. to Vegas and Back by Electric Car: 8 Hours Driving; 5 More Plugged In.
Read the whole article at --- https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/22/busi ... rging.html

Maybe things are different now but it seemt that a couple of years ago a roadtrip with an electric car was quite the experience (and not in a positive way).
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.
joebruin77
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by joebruin77 »

I just wanted to chime in on a couple points others raised:

Although I love my Tesla Model 3 Performance, I am not a Tesla "fanboy" who sees none of the negatives. I want to offer a balanced, realistic point of view.

For example, honestly I would recommend against buying a Model X. I believe Consumer Reports rated it as the least reliable SUV and that was in large part due to those rear Falcon Wing doors. The doors are a cool concept, but IMO not ready for prime time. Steer clear of the Model X for sure.

That said, the Model 3 and the Model Y are completely different and, IMO, much more reliable. Consumer reports still gives a recommended rating to the Model 3. Not sure if they have enough data on the Model Y yet. Two of the biggest complaints about the reliability for the Model S and Model X were the pop out door handles as well as the Model X's Falcon Wing doors. Neither of these are found on the Model 3 and Model Y.

Yes, Tesla has had some build quality issues, but they are definitely improving. I would never buy a first run of any new Tesla model. But after a year of production, they do a very good job of working out the kinks. Plus the "Over The Air" updates fix problems and improve the car. It is perhaps the only car that gets better as you own it. For example, earlier Model 3s got a 5% boost in power and improvements in range overnight via an OTA update.

The center screen based controls are IMO much better than traditional gauges and buttons. As an illustration of my point, compare the gauges and controls inside the cockpit of the spaceshuttle to the controls inside the new SpaceX Dragon capsule. The astronauts are not complaining about missing the old system and instead find the touch screen controls to be much simpler and more user friendly. Yes, with the Model Y you have to look slightly to your right to see the speed. But this takes all of 10 minutes to adjust to. And because there are no gauges directly in front of the driver, the long airvent that runs the entire length of the dash is there instead. During the summer, it is wondeful to have that air blowing through the steering wheel and directly onto the driver's body. Although I do wish the blind spot visible indictor was in the side mirror, there is still a loud audible warning and, with the correct seting, the car will steer itself back into your lane if it senses you will make an unsafe lane change.

Teslas, IMO, are actually BETTER road trip cars. I have the Enhanced Autopilot and it makes driving long distances so much less taxing. If you are alone on a long interstate, the car will do the driving for you. And if you are in bumper to bumper traffic, all your stress and fatigue goes away as the car starts, stops, and steers very reliably for you. And the Tesla Supercharger network is superb and no body else comes close. I have driven from LA to Vegas and also LA to Big Sur. The Superchargers were plentiful and uncrowded. Plus, when you start charging, you simply lock your car. You go use the restroom and perhaps get a bite to eat. Charging does not take a couple hours. It usually takes 15-30 minutes depending on how much of a charge you need. And the Superchargers are usually located with nice amenities at or near them, with restaurants, coffee shops, and stores.

I am happy to see other car manufacturers starting to produce EV's. I read an article that GM is developing a line of EV's with the Corvette brand, much like Ford has done with its Mustang Mach E. The Mach-E looks like an amazing car and I welcome its arrival. But as good as it is, the Tesla is still a much better road trip car due to the Supercharger network. There is a TFL video on youtube where they recently compared the experience of charging a Model Y and a Mach-E for 15 minutes to see who had the better experience. The Tesla pulled right up to the Supercharger and got a nice, fast charge over those 15 minutes. The guy driving the Mach E had to go to 3 different Electrify America stalls before he finally found one that worked with his Mach E. And once he started charging, it was a much slower charger than the Supercharger and was much more expensive.
joebruin77
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:14 am

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by joebruin77 »

7eight9 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:14 am
bwalling wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:39 am
jharkin wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:43 amThis. A Tesla is not just another car, its a major lifestyle change from what you are used to with gas cars.

Have you thought about how you will setup your house for charging?
Have you figured out how often you will drive it outside of its basic charge range? And how you will recharge on those long trips?
Have you accounted for the fact that if you wake up one morning and forgot to charge you can't just run to the gas station and take a long trip?
Have you thought about planning trips around change station availability?
Have you thought about adapting to "fuel up stops" that may take a couple hours, rather than 5 minutes?

And so on...
Huh? You can charge from your house with a Tesla charger, another brand charger, or a wall outlet. You can charge at all sorts of places. When you take a trip, the car will plan the charging stops for you. They're not "hours" by any means.

Range anxiety is a thing, but it's a thing you get over within a few weeks once you acclimate. It's a really minor change.

Unless you're in a highly rural area, charging availability isn't a concern.
The New York Times had an article in June 2019 titled L.A. to Vegas and Back by Electric Car: 8 Hours Driving; 5 More Plugged In.
Read the whole article at --- https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/22/busi ... rging.html

Maybe things are different now but it seemt that a couple of years ago a roadtrip with an electric car was quite the experience (and not in a positive way).
I read the article. I think it speaks more to the point that non-Tesla charging stations are inadequate and need to be improved if other automakers are going to compete with Tesla. The article did mention a Tesla driver who attempted to charge at a crowded Supercharger. But honestly that is more the exception rather than the rule. Tesla knew when they started the company that people would not buy their cars unless there was a fast, reliable charging system set up. More and more Superchargers are popping up throughout the country. The article mentioned a road trip from LA to Vegas. If the author had taken a Tesla, they would have had a very easy time charging. There are multiple Superchargers along the entire route, including one of the world's largest Superchargers in Baker, CA with 40 stalls. Plus nearly all major hotels now have Tesla destination chargers.
samta09
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:45 pm

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by samta09 »

joebruin77 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:34 am
7eight9 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:14 am
bwalling wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:39 am
jharkin wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:43 amThis. A Tesla is not just another car, its a major lifestyle change from what you are used to with gas cars.

Have you thought about how you will setup your house for charging?
Have you figured out how often you will drive it outside of its basic charge range? And how you will recharge on those long trips?
Have you accounted for the fact that if you wake up one morning and forgot to charge you can't just run to the gas station and take a long trip?
Have you thought about planning trips around change station availability?
Have you thought about adapting to "fuel up stops" that may take a couple hours, rather than 5 minutes?

And so on...
Huh? You can charge from your house with a Tesla charger, another brand charger, or a wall outlet. You can charge at all sorts of places. When you take a trip, the car will plan the charging stops for you. They're not "hours" by any means.

Range anxiety is a thing, but it's a thing you get over within a few weeks once you acclimate. It's a really minor change.

Unless you're in a highly rural area, charging availability isn't a concern.
The New York Times had an article in June 2019 titled L.A. to Vegas and Back by Electric Car: 8 Hours Driving; 5 More Plugged In.
Read the whole article at --- https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/22/busi ... rging.html

Maybe things are different now but it seemt that a couple of years ago a roadtrip with an electric car was quite the experience (and not in a positive way).
I read the article. I think it speaks more to the point that non-Tesla charging stations are inadequate and need to be improved if other automakers are going to compete with Tesla. The article did mention a Tesla driver who attempted to charge at a crowded Supercharger. But honestly that is more the exception rather than the rule. Tesla knew when they started the company that people would not buy their cars unless there was a fast, reliable charging system set up. More and more Superchargers are popping up throughout the country. The article mentioned a road trip from LA to Vegas. If the author had taken a Tesla, they would have had a very easy time charging. There are multiple Superchargers along the entire route, including one of the world's largest Superchargers in Baker, CA with 40 stalls. Plus nearly all major hotels now have Tesla destination chargers.
I agree. We have a Tesla Model 3 and traveled from PA to Rhode Island. We did not have to charge for 5 plus hours. We stopped every 2-3 hours for restroom and snacks on the way and selected locations where there are Supercharging stations. The car is being charged while we're resting/eating. The longest wait was 30 minutes but it as due to a long lunch. I think a lot of fears are overblown.
bwalling
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by bwalling »

samta09 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:51 am
joebruin77 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:34 am
7eight9 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:14 am
bwalling wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:39 am
jharkin wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:43 amThis. A Tesla is not just another car, its a major lifestyle change from what you are used to with gas cars.

Have you thought about how you will setup your house for charging?
Have you figured out how often you will drive it outside of its basic charge range? And how you will recharge on those long trips?
Have you accounted for the fact that if you wake up one morning and forgot to charge you can't just run to the gas station and take a long trip?
Have you thought about planning trips around change station availability?
Have you thought about adapting to "fuel up stops" that may take a couple hours, rather than 5 minutes?

And so on...
Huh? You can charge from your house with a Tesla charger, another brand charger, or a wall outlet. You can charge at all sorts of places. When you take a trip, the car will plan the charging stops for you. They're not "hours" by any means.

Range anxiety is a thing, but it's a thing you get over within a few weeks once you acclimate. It's a really minor change.

Unless you're in a highly rural area, charging availability isn't a concern.
The New York Times had an article in June 2019 titled L.A. to Vegas and Back by Electric Car: 8 Hours Driving; 5 More Plugged In.
Read the whole article at --- https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/22/busi ... rging.html

Maybe things are different now but it seemt that a couple of years ago a roadtrip with an electric car was quite the experience (and not in a positive way).
I read the article. I think it speaks more to the point that non-Tesla charging stations are inadequate and need to be improved if other automakers are going to compete with Tesla. The article did mention a Tesla driver who attempted to charge at a crowded Supercharger. But honestly that is more the exception rather than the rule. Tesla knew when they started the company that people would not buy their cars unless there was a fast, reliable charging system set up. More and more Superchargers are popping up throughout the country. The article mentioned a road trip from LA to Vegas. If the author had taken a Tesla, they would have had a very easy time charging. There are multiple Superchargers along the entire route, including one of the world's largest Superchargers in Baker, CA with 40 stalls. Plus nearly all major hotels now have Tesla destination chargers.
I agree. We have a Tesla Model 3 and traveled from PA to Rhode Island. We did not have to charge for 5 plus hours. We stopped every 2-3 hours for restroom and snacks on the way and selected locations where there are Supercharging stations. The car is being charged while we're resting/eating. The longest wait was 30 minutes but it as due to a long lunch. I think a lot of fears are overblown.
This. Tesla Superchargers are fast. You stop when you were going to eat and go to the bathroom anyway. The stops don't wind up being that much longer than if you combined eating and bathroom with getting gas. I have a 320 mile range on my Model 3. Competitors aren't really close on that, either.

Long trips aren't fun, but they're actually much better when the car drives itself. You arrive much more refreshed than if you had been fully driving the whole time. The difference on a 4-8 hour trip compared with a car that must be fully driven is huge.

Yes, other electric cars exist. No, they haven't caught up yet.
WhiteMaxima
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by WhiteMaxima »

honda. as more ev player jump in. price will fall.
harrychan
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Location: Pasadena

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by harrychan »

joebruin77 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:20 pm I drive a Tesla Model 3 and my wife drives a Honda Accord, so I know a thing or two about comparing the two makes.

Perhaps the most important question is, how far away do you live from the nearest Tesla Service Center? Although I have had no major problems with my Tesla, I would never consider owning a Tesla unless there was a service center reasonably close to me. Sooner or later you will have a problem and need a service or repair. You don't want a Tesla if your nearest service center is several hours away.

In terms of cost, I would personally make an Excel spreadsheet comparing ALL of the estimated costs over a 5 year period. The Tesla may cost more upfront, but you will likely save a lot of money over time. For example, there are articles showing that a Tesla Model 3 is cheaper to own than a Camry or Accord over a 5 year period, even though the Tesla costs several thousand more at the time of purchase. Remember with the Tesla, there are no oil changes, tune ups, timing belts, etc. You may never need to change the brake pads either since most of the braking is done via the regenerative braking through the motors.

I would get insurance quotes for each car. Also take into consideration how much your fuel bill will be with each car. My previous car was a Subaru WRX. I estimate I am saving a net $200 a month in gas savings. Also consider how much it will cost to set up your home for charging. Consider not just the cost for the charger (technically it is called a Tesla Wall Connector) or a 14-50 Nema outlet, but also if there are any tax incentives and power company rebates. My local utility gave me a $500 rebate once I installed my Tesla Wall Connector (cost $500), so my net cost was only the labor to pay an electriian to install it.
To add to this, what are your plans for this vehicle? If it is to EXCLUSIVELY to go around town, you will be fine with a Tesla. But if you are going to be taking road trips, mountains then the Tesla SR will be a learning experience for you unless you are ok to be inconvenienced with frequent stopping to charge. Look at others in your area that own Teslas and see what their driving habits are.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
TravelGeek
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by TravelGeek »

SEAworld9 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:20 am - wipers: there are controls on the screen, however most just have them set to auto. if you press the button on the end of the left stalk it wipes the windows. and you can double click the right scroll button on the wheel and use a voice command. none require you to take you eyes off the road. The screen is extremely intuitive and convenient.
I have to admit the screen controls were a concern for me when they first announced the Model 3 and I placed my pre-order (later canceled). But I recently had the opportunity of test driving the Model Y for an hour and found it to be a non-issue.

We are looking at getting a Model Y this spring. It won’t be our first EV (we have a 2018 LEAF) and so we have no concerns about EVs in general. Our garage already has a NEMA 14-50 outlet and I love having my own “gas station” at home. Range anxiety? Pfft.

I do agree, though, that the decision between a Tesla MY and a Honda Odyssey should be driven by requirements. We don’t need the features of a mini van; for our needs the size and configuration of the Model Y is perfect. For someone with a large family or frequent need to haul a ton of stuff things may be different (though when the backseats are flipped over, the cargo space in the MY isn’t bad at all, about the same as our Forester, I think. We don’t haul lumber, though.
Lexx
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Lexx »

One other little tidbit. Do not go by Tesla's published ranges. From reading the Tesla forums, expect to use no more than 3/4 of the published range. Charging the battery to full is not good for the longevity of the battery pack. Neither is running it down to near zero. Furthermore, in cold weather battery performance can be markedly decreased.

Even worse, many folks report a loss of about 10% of their range after a year or two of use.

So that Model Y 326 mile published range really only gets you about 250-260 mi of usable range if your battery remains at 100%. If you lose 10% on the battery, now your range drops to about 230 miles.
suemarkp
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:18 pm
Location: Somewhere in WA State

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by suemarkp »

I'd avoid 2016 - 2019 Honda Pilot/Odyssey/Ridgeline in general, especially with the 9 speed transmission as that trans has a lot of issues. I have a 2016 pilot with the 6 speed and 45K miles on it. But it too has a quirk with the trans that happens around 40K miles (gets jerky at light throttle). You basically need to change the transmission fluid 3 times instead of just once to fix it (seems overly sensitive to dirty fluid). That will be costly if you have the dealer do it. Even DIY, the fluid is expensive (you'll need 10 quarts to do a triple change and the dealer charges $10 per quart). There is a TSB on this and its covered under the emissions warranty which has different lengths depending on what state it was sold in (8 yrs / 80K miles for me). But they may not fix it for free unless they can replicate the jerking with their data logger attached.

Just had another quirk, but it self corrected. Its a problem with manufacturing debris in the fuel pump and/or fuel rail which end up cloggin a fuel injector. You'll get a lean condition on one side of the engine which throws a trouble code. The fix for this is to replace all 6 fuel injectors and clean the fuel rail. Also not cheap. Again there is a TSB and it is covered under the emissions warranty, but fuel injectors are typically only 3yr 50K miles if you have the west coast emissions warranty. I'm hoping this one doesn't happen again.

The climate control is under powered (I'm in the Seattle area which isn't super hot, but on hot days it takes a long time to cool down), and it isn't as comfortable HVAC wise as my previous cars. I'm always having to turn the temperature setting up or down depending on whether the sun is out and even between summer/winter. It also blows cold air on you for 10 seconds or so when the car first starts up (if set to AUTO) until it starts to figure things out.

The 2016 infotainment system is slow to boot up and its handsfree bluetooth is unreliable. If get notified about a new text message about 80% of the time. Don't know why it sometimes doesn't get notified.

Overall, I have been disappointed in this vehicle. I had higher expectations from Honda. They seem to be turning into GM/Ford of the 70's (don't recall, do minimal accommodation to known defects, deny problems, etc).

The maintenance minder is a mixed blessing. It at least tells you what to service and when it is time to do so. But the schedule isn't published so I have no clue when to plan and for how many things. This last service message is a big one - engine oil, trans fluid, transfer case fluid, and rear axle fluid all due. The oil interval seems pretty constant, so I know about when it will come on next time. It the new items that pop up (this was the first time for trans and transfer case) that require shopping for additional fluids or filters.
Mark | Somewhere in WA State
KandT
Posts: 219
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by KandT »

Keep in mind when thinking about "range" that the car will be charged full every morning. So how many day a year do you exceed the model Y's range and would need to supercharge? For most people that probably isn't a lot. So when you take total time spent fueling over a year I would submit that most people would find they would spend less time with a model Y.

One other thing is the instant torque when accelerating onto a highway. It just doesn't need to downshift and find a gear then throttle up and go.

Finally, to me it provides a substantial amount of intrinsic unmeasurable value to know that I bought a vehicle that will support bringing us closer to sustainable transport. The vehicle will likely be on the road for 20 years. So it will either be polluting for the next 20 years or using the energy of a grid which is getting cleaner. I find value in knowing that. I also believe it sends a strong message to car manufacturers that they need to better. Squeezing an extra mile per gallon is no longer good enough. We need to produce and use energy with our heads.

By buying an another internal combustion engine you are voting with your dollars to stay in a polluting past.

Yes EV haters will say they also pollute and they do but they are progress - substantial progress. No need to stop progress because it is not perfection.
angelescrest
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Location: MCOL, no state income tax

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by angelescrest »

hamhocs wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:02 am If you go Odyssey, make sure you listen very carefully before buying. I had a 2019 for a year and couldn't stand it anymore.

https://www.odyclub.com/threads/rattle- ... ed.347853/
I love Hondas, but remember a friend letting me drive their Odyssey around. I was amazed at how harsh the ride was when hitting road imperfections. Given that my local roads were 10x worse, I said no way. I read about the 50 lbs of sound proofing they put in a mid generation update of the Sienna, and that alone sold me.
bwalling
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by bwalling »

Lexx wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:51 pm One other little tidbit. Do not go by Tesla's published ranges. From reading the Tesla forums, expect to use no more than 3/4 of the published range. Charging the battery to full is not good for the longevity of the battery pack. Neither is running it down to near zero. Furthermore, in cold weather battery performance can be markedly decreased.

Even worse, many folks report a loss of about 10% of their range after a year or two of use.

So that Model Y 326 mile published range really only gets you about 250-260 mi of usable range if your battery remains at 100%. If you lose 10% on the battery, now your range drops to about 230 miles.
This is a misinterpretation of the comments. I have a 2018 Model 3. I still see 318 mile range (originally 320). When people say 3/4 of the published range, it's that they don't fully charge it on a regular basis. That's because of how batteries work and they're better off if you don't use them in the extremes (100% charge or 0% charge). So, my car normally charges to 260 mile range, and I drive it around town to around 80 miles left, then I plug it in next time I pull into the garage. That's just how you use it on a day to day basis. It has no impact whatsoever on your ability to drive farther. Since you just plug it into the wall when you get home, limiting your charging window causes no real additional overhead like going to the gas station would if you decided to keep your car between 1/4 and 3/4 full.

If I'm going to drive farther or go on a trip, I just charge it all the way up. That's as easy as tapping the screen before getting out, or opening the app on the phone and telling it to charge all the way up instead of just part way.

There are some mental changes one has to make with owning one. Going in, they seem like concerns. For the first few weeks, you have "range anxiety", where you're afraid of running out of battery before finding charging. That goes away pretty quickly once you adapt to the difference between EV and gas.

From the outside, people talk about that stuff a lot because they're unfamiliar. They also misinterpret the behaviors of EV owners as some kind of sign that they're inconvenient or problematic. It's just that it's different. You adapt fairly quickly. Frankly, I'll never go back to gas. Gas stations suck. Plugging in at home is far more convenient.

Plus, my car charges from my solar panels, so it's even cheaper. Although, even if I were paying for the electricity, it costs less than $5 to charge fully.
benderbr
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by benderbr »

+1 to bwalling's comments. There are so many misconceptions from non-owners and Tesla bears are happy to propagate them. People considering Tesla need to take it all with a grain of salt (from both naysayers and fanatics) and make their own decision.

Do yourself a huge favor and test drive the model you're interested in. Touch less test drive:
https://www.tesla.com/drive
DurangoWino
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by DurangoWino »

Very enlightening thread. As stated earlier, if you are near a service center and are generally using the car around town, hands down go with a Tesla. My issue is that we take numerous 1100 mile trips per year that we need to do in one day due to lugging our cat around. A 15-16 hour trip would become much longer having to stop and charge up every few hours.

I noticed this morning that an Israeli company announced a car battery capable of being fully charged in five minutes. That could be a game changer if it can be implemented across the country.

New Bronco on order, but I bet my wife’s next car will be EV. We will see.
infotrader
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by infotrader »

I was in the same situation last month, but I bought an Ody EXL.
I own TSLA stock and could easily cover either a model Y or Ody.
Although I am an empty nester, I still prefer the space of Ody. They are just two different cars.
I also looked at the new Sienna, but I found it impossible to recover the difference of their selling prices.
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by oldcomputerguy »

This topic is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (vehicle purchase).
Lexx
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Lexx »

Taken from the official Tesla forums: https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/171 ... you-expect

Your rated range in EV found on your car's sticker has to be significantly derated.

1. It is recommended that you only charge to 85% and not discharge below 10% so effective range is 75% of rated range on an EV, something you don't see on the gas tank on an ICE car. Look at 75% of Rated Range as the car's daily usable range. 100% of range is available for trips and special circumstance.

2. EV's lose 10%-30% or range in the colder weather and this deration starts at 50F.

3. Li-on batteries begin to lose range from day of mfg. 10% degradation in first year while not common, 3-5% range lose in first year is common) it is "within normal" limits. If your battery and/or driving results in a higher level of range loss can you live with it?
bwalling wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:06 am
This is a misinterpretation of the comments. I have a 2018 Model 3. I still see 318 mile range (originally 320). When people say 3/4 of the published range, it's that they don't fully charge it on a regular basis. That's because of how batteries work and they're better off if you don't use them in the extremes (100% charge or 0% charge). So, my car normally charges to 260 mile range, and I drive it around town to around 80 miles left, then I plug it in next time I pull into the garage. That's just how you use it on a day to day basis. It has no impact whatsoever on your ability to drive farther. Since you just plug it into the wall when you get home, limiting your charging window causes no real additional overhead like going to the gas station would if you decided to keep your car between 1/4 and 3/4 full.

If I'm going to drive farther or go on a trip, I just charge it all the way up. That's as easy as tapping the screen before getting out, or opening the app on the phone and telling it to charge all the way up instead of just part way.

There are some mental changes one has to make with owning one. Going in, they seem like concerns. For the first few weeks, you have "range anxiety", where you're afraid of running out of battery before finding charging. That goes away pretty quickly once you adapt to the difference between EV and gas.

From the outside, people talk about that stuff a lot because they're unfamiliar. They also misinterpret the behaviors of EV owners as some kind of sign that they're inconvenient or problematic. It's just that it's different. You adapt fairly quickly. Frankly, I'll never go back to gas. Gas stations suck. Plugging in at home is far more convenient.

Plus, my car charges from my solar panels, so it's even cheaper. Although, even if I were paying for the electricity, it costs less than $5 to charge fully.
Normchad
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by Normchad »

There are some mental changes one has to make with owning one. Going in, they seem like concerns. For the first few weeks, you have "range anxiety", where you're afraid of running out of battery before finding charging. That goes away pretty quickly once you adapt to the difference between EV and gas.

From the outside, people talk about that stuff a lot because they're unfamiliar. They also misinterpret the behaviors of EV owners as some kind of sign that they're inconvenient or problematic. It's just that it's different. You adapt fairly quickly. Frankly, I'll never go back to gas. Gas stations suck. Plugging in at home is far more convenient
This is so true. It was true for me, and it has been true for every Tesla owner I’ve talked to. For about the first month, you are hyper focused on range, and have range anxiety. After about a month, you just stop thinking about it.

It is different. In 2 years of ownership, I’ve only used a supercharger 5 times. All other charging has been done at home. I did it with a regular wall outlet for the first four months, and that was slow, but was good enough.

The adaptation is very quick. One pedal driving is amazing.

Also, you never have to use the touch screen while driving. You can use it. But you don’t have too.

The voice recognition works perfectly.

And my greatest joy right now, is scheduled departure. The car automatically warms itself up before I leave for work in the morning. The cabin and seats are warm, and the windows are defrosted when I walk out. That is real luxury!
SEAworld9
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Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by SEAworld9 »

Lexx wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:53 pm Taken from the official Tesla forums: https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/171 ... you-expect

Your rated range in EV found on your car's sticker has to be significantly derated.

1. It is recommended that you only charge to 85% and not discharge below 10% so effective range is 75% of rated range on an EV, something you don't see on the gas tank on an ICE car. Look at 75% of Rated Range as the car's daily usable range. 100% of range is available for trips and special circumstance.

2. EV's lose 10%-30% or range in the colder weather and this deration starts at 50F.

3. Li-on batteries begin to lose range from day of mfg. 10% degradation in first year while not common, 3-5% range lose in first year is common) it is "within normal" limits. If your battery and/or driving results in a higher level of range loss can you live with it?
I still struggle somewhat when people bring these things up.

1. Effective range is 100% of battery capacity. Common or daily range is whatever you set your limit to like you say. EV range and MPGe is measured under specific conditions with specific tests. Same with ICE cars, for which MPG is measured in an inside laboratory with specific tests. Unless you are driving your car under the exact same conditions as these tests, it’s unlikely you’ll achieve the same MPG/MPGe on the Monroney sticker, no matter what type of car you have.

2. ICE cars also lose a significant amount of range in cold weather.

3. ICE cars get worse mpg as they get older as well. For Tesla’s, range loss is very low after the first year, and they push out software updates that improve efficiency and enable to you recoup some/all of that loss depending on your vehicle.

This is not meant to be pro-EV or anti-ICE, but rather to highlight that many times points are brought up against one or the other as if the same things don’t happen to cars of all types.
joebruin77
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:14 am

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by joebruin77 »

Lexx wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:53 pm Taken from the official Tesla forums: https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/171 ... you-expect

Your rated range in EV found on your car's sticker has to be significantly derated.

1. It is recommended that you only charge to 85% and not discharge below 10% so effective range is 75% of rated range on an EV, something you don't see on the gas tank on an ICE car. Look at 75% of Rated Range as the car's daily usable range. 100% of range is available for trips and special circumstance.

2. EV's lose 10%-30% or range in the colder weather and this deration starts at 50F.

3. Li-on batteries begin to lose range from day of mfg. 10% degradation in first year while not common, 3-5% range lose in first year is common) it is "within normal" limits. If your battery and/or driving results in a higher level of range loss can you live with it?
bwalling wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:06 am
This is a misinterpretation of the comments. I have a 2018 Model 3. I still see 318 mile range (originally 320). When people say 3/4 of the published range, it's that they don't fully charge it on a regular basis. That's because of how batteries work and they're better off if you don't use them in the extremes (100% charge or 0% charge). So, my car normally charges to 260 mile range, and I drive it around town to around 80 miles left, then I plug it in next time I pull into the garage. That's just how you use it on a day to day basis. It has no impact whatsoever on your ability to drive farther. Since you just plug it into the wall when you get home, limiting your charging window causes no real additional overhead like going to the gas station would if you decided to keep your car between 1/4 and 3/4 full.

If I'm going to drive farther or go on a trip, I just charge it all the way up. That's as easy as tapping the screen before getting out, or opening the app on the phone and telling it to charge all the way up instead of just part way.

There are some mental changes one has to make with owning one. Going in, they seem like concerns. For the first few weeks, you have "range anxiety", where you're afraid of running out of battery before finding charging. That goes away pretty quickly once you adapt to the difference between EV and gas.

From the outside, people talk about that stuff a lot because they're unfamiliar. They also misinterpret the behaviors of EV owners as some kind of sign that they're inconvenient or problematic. It's just that it's different. You adapt fairly quickly. Frankly, I'll never go back to gas. Gas stations suck. Plugging in at home is far more convenient.

Plus, my car charges from my solar panels, so it's even cheaper. Although, even if I were paying for the electricity, it costs less than $5 to charge fully.
The exact percentages for optimum battery health are subject to debate. Elon Musk has most recently stated that the battery can be charged up to 90% every day without any signficant wear and tear on the battery. So yes, on a day to day basis, it is wise to make sure your battery level stays between 90% and 10% state of charge. But why is that a problem? If you have a charger at your home, that is easily doable. Imagine if you had a gas pump in your garage and you left every day with your gas tank 90% full. Would you really worry about hitting the 10% level before coming home that night? Everyone's situation is different, but I think most people do not drive 200+ miles a day.

Yes, it is true that you lose some range in colder climates and it is important to take this into consideration. The latest Model 3's and Model Y's have a heat pump, which does tax the battery less in cold weather. But even at 10-30%, as long as you take that into account and as long as you can charge as soon as you get home, this is not a big deal at all for most people. Before you leave in the morning, you can precondition the cabin with the car still plugged in. That way, you are heating the car using power from the house instead of the battery in the car. And you can initiate the preconditioning remotely using your phone.

Yes, the batteries do typically show some degredation over time, but that degradation plateaus after the first year with nominal degradation after that point. Also the battery comes with an 8 year, 100K mile warranty. If the degradation is excessive, Tesla will replace the battery free of charge under the warranty. And not all batteries experience degradation. I took delivery of my Model 3 in Dec 2018. It started with a range of 310 miles and as of today, it shows a range of 309 miles.

Before buying a Tesla, people should indeed have accurate info about batteries, range, and charging. For example, if you are going to buy a standard range Model 3 or Y, you do want to make sure you will have adequate range given the normal upper 90% limit and the effect of cold weather. If you don't think the standard range of 263 miles with a Model 3 will be sufficient, then you may want to opt for the long range version which is currently 353 miles per charge.
checkyourmath
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:46 pm

Re: Buying a Car - TSLA OR Honda

Post by checkyourmath »

Deja vu I had a friend that bought a model S in 2012 instead of just buying Tesla stock. If he would have bought the stock he would have 9,409,000 dollars. You might regret buying a Tesla knowing you would have a few million dollars if you just bought the stock instead.
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