Let's play chess

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Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

Any way to mute the chat during lichess rated games? Personally I'm not a trash-talking person; I don't talk trash and I don't want to hear trash talk either. This is one nice thing about playing anonymous pickup games, as you can only make some cookie-cutter pre-defined comments.
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willthrill81
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:25 am Any way to mute the chat during lichess rated games? Personally I'm not a trash-talking person; I don't talk trash and I don't want to hear trash talk either. This is one nice thing about playing anonymous pickup games, as you can only make some cookie-cutter pre-defined comments.
When I played at chess.com, there was significant chatter, but on Lichess, it's been very rare in my experience beside the 'cookie-cutter' GG and such. Only once that I can recall did some engage in trash talking, and after I reported it, I got an email from admin saying that the individual had been banned.
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Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:33 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:25 am Any way to mute the chat during lichess rated games? Personally I'm not a trash-talking person; I don't talk trash and I don't want to hear trash talk either. This is one nice thing about playing anonymous pickup games, as you can only make some cookie-cutter pre-defined comments.
When I played at chess.com, there was significant chatter, but on Lichess, it's been very rare in my experience beside the 'cookie-cutter' GG and such. Only once that I can recall did some engage in trash talking, and after I reported it, I got an email from admin saying that the individual had been banned.
Oh I see, I wasn't aware you can report people. Maybe the poster above could have reported the opponent as well :)
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canadianbacon
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by canadianbacon »

I had someone repeatedly offer draws in a lost position, stall, add time to my clock, etc. When he finally resigned or flagged, I gave him a GG :happy
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DrippingSprings
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by DrippingSprings »

Rarely do I encounter any trash talking on Chess.com or Lichess. But, one time a guy started calling me names and using a lot of profanity. I began responding to him in Yiddish which frustrated him; it was quite satisfying. And, I put him on my ignore list.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by investingdad »

I stay silent during matches, but when the game is lost and the person refuses to resign I usually type RESIGN a number of times. I mean, a lone king against numerous material with lots of time and the player keeps moving? Why?

But if somebody talks trash and I end up in the winning position, I will give it back hard.
Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

investingdad wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:05 am I stay silent during matches, but when the game is lost and the person refuses to resign I usually type RESIGN a number of times. I mean, a lone king against numerous material with lots of time and the player keeps moving? Why?

But if somebody talks trash and I end up in the winning position, I will give it back hard.
I think some players never resign because one can accidentally stalemate, run out of clock etc etc.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by investingdad »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:06 am
investingdad wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:05 am I stay silent during matches, but when the game is lost and the person refuses to resign I usually type RESIGN a number of times. I mean, a lone king against numerous material with lots of time and the player keeps moving? Why?

But if somebody talks trash and I end up in the winning position, I will give it back hard.
I think some players never resign because one can accidentally stalemate, run out of clock etc etc.
You are correct of course. And time is certainly a factor on many games. However if time is plentiful and the game is badly lost, I would expect a resignation.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

investingdad wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:20 am You are correct of course. And time is certainly a factor on many games. However if time is plentiful and the game is badly lost, I would expect a resignation.
I think people like Levy preach to never resign. And even for a badly lost position, stalemate is always a possibility. I've read about some four-queen situation ending up in a stalemate.

I'm not saying I never resign, but I can understand why some people never do.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by CRC_Volunteer »

Last time I played chess was when Bobby Fischer played Boris Spassky. Seems like yesterday…
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halfnine
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by halfnine »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:22 pm
investingdad wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:20 am You are correct of course. And time is certainly a factor on many games. However if time is plentiful and the game is badly lost, I would expect a resignation.
I think people like Levy preach to never resign. And even for a badly lost position, stalemate is always a possibility. I've read about some four-queen situation ending up in a stalemate.

I'm not saying I never resign, but I can understand why some people never do.
My kids rarely resign. If they have a queen on the board there is always the possibility of a perpetual. And, without a queen, there is nearly always stalemate potential. My kids have achieved both with enough success that generally a resignation isn't warranted. That said, they don't elongate the game either. They'll blitz out the moves. Most opponents, of course, respond by blitzing out the moves themselves which also leads to a more likely stalemate. A few weeks ago my youngest stalemated a Lichess rated 2400.
halfnine
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by halfnine »

As to chatter, trash talking, stalling, draw requests in losing positions, leaving the game, etc. I can't speak for Chess.com but on Lichess a lot of it just seems to depend on the factors associated with the games you play. Based on what I have observed, rated games are generally less problematic than non-rated. Anonymous players are worse than those with usernames. Players less than 1800 are more problematic than those in the 1800-2200 range. Kids in the 12-15 age range bring their growing pains to the chess board and are also more likley to cheat. And adults less than 2200 tend to play poorly in the endgame and also tend to get tilted when you take them there. And, of course, most players under 2200 have a glaring weakness somewhere in their game and the second you take them there or expose it they lash out at your style of play when instead they should be addressing their problem areas.
Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

I think you can click on the green square thing to toggle chat on / off. Of course, this isn't a big issue for anonymous pickup games as you can't really talk trash.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

Tata Steel Chess Tournament 2022 starting next week. I miss the old name of Wijk aan Zee, the name of the place.
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willthrill81
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:22 pm
investingdad wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:20 am You are correct of course. And time is certainly a factor on many games. However if time is plentiful and the game is badly lost, I would expect a resignation.
I think people like Levy preach to never resign. And even for a badly lost position, stalemate is always a possibility. I've read about some four-queen situation ending up in a stalemate.

I'm not saying I never resign, but I can understand why some people never do.
There are varying schools of thought about resigning it seems. Some say to never resign since you never know what will happen. While that's true, accidental stalemates online are quite rare in my experience. Others say that not resigning when faced with an obviously lost game and a clearly capable opponent is rather bratty. While I think that a hefty dose of grace all around is always a good thing, it is annoying when an opponent appears to be trying to deliberately waste your time but just not resigning and making you play out a game until checkmate.

Personally, I resign regularly and rarely play until I am checkmated and only even then when time is a big factor.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by sureshoe »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:35 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:22 pm
investingdad wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:20 am You are correct of course. And time is certainly a factor on many games. However if time is plentiful and the game is badly lost, I would expect a resignation.
I think people like Levy preach to never resign. And even for a badly lost position, stalemate is always a possibility. I've read about some four-queen situation ending up in a stalemate.

I'm not saying I never resign, but I can understand why some people never do.
There are varying schools of thought about resigning it seems. Some say to never resign since you never know what will happen. While that's true, accidental stalemates online are quite rare in my experience. Others say that not resigning when faced with an obviously lost game and a clearly capable opponent is rather bratty. While I think that a hefty dose of grace all around is always a good thing, it is annoying when an opponent appears to be trying to deliberately waste your time but just not resigning and making you play out a game until checkmate.

Personally, I resign regularly and rarely play until I am checkmated and only even then when time is a big factor.
Yeah, really depends on the situation and skills of the player. Grandmasters might resign even down a pawn or just bad board position, whereas novices should always force the checkmate, even if down a queen or more.

For rare situations, I'll force it to mate, but in most, you resign. If I have nothing but a King and my opponent has 2 bishops - yeah, I'm going to make him show he knows how to do it. But if the opponent has a queen and rook, at this level, nobody is messing that up. And let's say they do - so what? 1 out of 100 times, maybe there's a boneheaded error. So you've wasted hours in dead games, not getting better at chess, just to get an extra 5-10 points in a meaningless rating system.

I'm not familiar with any 4 queen stalemates, but I would assume at that point people are just screwing around.

I have been in games where the game is clearly over, and the person just abandons, or does enough to keep it alive online (depending on rules). That's really a jerk move. (again, just to eek out a few points in a meaningless system and to play people better than you)
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by minimalistmarc »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:35 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:22 pm
investingdad wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:20 am You are correct of course. And time is certainly a factor on many games. However if time is plentiful and the game is badly lost, I would expect a resignation.
I think people like Levy preach to never resign. And even for a badly lost position, stalemate is always a possibility. I've read about some four-queen situation ending up in a stalemate.

I'm not saying I never resign, but I can understand why some people never do.
There are varying schools of thought about resigning it seems. Some say to never resign since you never know what will happen. While that's true, accidental stalemates online are quite rare in my experience. Others say that not resigning when faced with an obviously lost game and a clearly capable opponent is rather bratty. While I think that a hefty dose of grace all around is always a good thing, it is annoying when an opponent appears to be trying to deliberately waste your time but just not resigning and making you play out a game until checkmate.

Personally, I resign regularly and rarely play until I am checkmated and only even then when time is a big factor.
My ELO is low and fluctuates between 800 - 1000. I encounter stalemates often in completely lost positions (winning and losing). I try to never resign, as I still want the learning opportunity of each game.
halfnine
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by halfnine »

A recent game of Hikaru telling Eric Rosen to resign followed by him actually losing instead.

Now this is bullet chess, but when it comes to resigning or not context is always important. And, in this context Hikaru wants Eric to resign so that he can get more games in as it's the number of wins that ultimately matters.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by willthrill81 »

halfnine wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:52 am A recent game of Hikaru telling Eric Rosen to resign followed by him actually losing instead.

Now this is bullet chess, but when it comes to resigning or not context is always important. And, in this context Hikaru wants Eric to resign so that he can get more games in as it's the number of wins that ultimately matters.
In bullet chess, resignations make much less sense, and failing to resign should never be taken as a sign of a player being a jerk.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by willthrill81 »

sureshoe wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:27 amI have been in games where the game is clearly over, and the person just abandons, or does enough to keep it alive online (depending on rules). That's really a jerk move. (again, just to eek out a few points in a meaningless system and to play people better than you)
That's the kind of behavior that really gets stuck in my craw.
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sureshoe
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by sureshoe »

minimalistmarc wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:32 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:35 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:22 pm
investingdad wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:20 am You are correct of course. And time is certainly a factor on many games. However if time is plentiful and the game is badly lost, I would expect a resignation.
I think people like Levy preach to never resign. And even for a badly lost position, stalemate is always a possibility. I've read about some four-queen situation ending up in a stalemate.

I'm not saying I never resign, but I can understand why some people never do.
There are varying schools of thought about resigning it seems. Some say to never resign since you never know what will happen. While that's true, accidental stalemates online are quite rare in my experience. Others say that not resigning when faced with an obviously lost game and a clearly capable opponent is rather bratty. While I think that a hefty dose of grace all around is always a good thing, it is annoying when an opponent appears to be trying to deliberately waste your time but just not resigning and making you play out a game until checkmate.

Personally, I resign regularly and rarely play until I am checkmated and only even then when time is a big factor.
My ELO is low and fluctuates between 800 - 1000. I encounter stalemates often in completely lost positions (winning and losing). I try to never resign, as I still want the learning opportunity of each game.
I think the words "completely lost" are up for interpretation. If it's early game and you're already down ~10 points worth of pieces, that's a fairly hopeless situation, but I wouldn't call it "completely lost" as long as there is enough on the board to give options. If you're down 10 points with no pawns near promotion at the end of the game, that's "completely lost".

Either way, if someone wants to play it out, fine. I think the takeaway is how brisk you play at that point. Both in person and online, I've had people simply stare at a board where they have 2 pawns and a knight while I have 5 pawns and a queen. Or, I have their knight pinned and it's just a matter of whether they block with a pawn or move their king. I get it, you have time... but this isn't the world championship. The reason the person is grinding to find a move is because there are no good moves at that point.

Either way, if you refuse to resign, keep the moves to 2-10 seconds and we'll stay friends. If the opponent's situation is so dominant, they should be able to wrap it fairly quickly. If you're burning thru you're whole clock, it's just simply rude.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by sureshoe »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:09 am
halfnine wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:52 am A recent game of Hikaru telling Eric Rosen to resign followed by him actually losing instead.

Now this is bullet chess, but when it comes to resigning or not context is always important. And, in this context Hikaru wants Eric to resign so that he can get more games in as it's the number of wins that ultimately matters.
In bullet chess, resignations make much less sense, and failing to resign should never be taken as a sign of a player being a jerk.
Absolutely. Avoiding errors is 50% of bullet chess. Watching that link - the guy was only down 5 points with lots of material still on the board. For all the smack talk, that game was far from over (clearly) even without the bad rook pin.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by halfnine »

sureshoe wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:52 am
minimalistmarc wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:32 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:35 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:22 pm
investingdad wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:20 am You are correct of course. And time is certainly a factor on many games. However if time is plentiful and the game is badly lost, I would expect a resignation.
I think people like Levy preach to never resign. And even for a badly lost position, stalemate is always a possibility. I've read about some four-queen situation ending up in a stalemate.

I'm not saying I never resign, but I can understand why some people never do.
There are varying schools of thought about resigning it seems. Some say to never resign since you never know what will happen. While that's true, accidental stalemates online are quite rare in my experience. Others say that not resigning when faced with an obviously lost game and a clearly capable opponent is rather bratty. While I think that a hefty dose of grace all around is always a good thing, it is annoying when an opponent appears to be trying to deliberately waste your time but just not resigning and making you play out a game until checkmate.

Personally, I resign regularly and rarely play until I am checkmated and only even then when time is a big factor.
My ELO is low and fluctuates between 800 - 1000. I encounter stalemates often in completely lost positions (winning and losing). I try to never resign, as I still want the learning opportunity of each game.
I think the words "completely lost" are up for interpretation. If it's early game and you're already down ~10 points worth of pieces, that's a fairly hopeless situation, but I wouldn't call it "completely lost" as long as there is enough on the board to give options. If you're down 10 points with no pawns near promotion at the end of the game, that's "completely lost".

Either way, if someone wants to play it out, fine. I think the takeaway is how brisk you play at that point. Both in person and online, I've had people simply stare at a board where they have 2 pawns and a knight while I have 5 pawns and a queen. Or, I have their knight pinned and it's just a matter of whether they block with a pawn or move their king. I get it, you have time... but this isn't the world championship. The reason the person is grinding to find a move is because there are no good moves at that point.

Either way, if you refuse to resign, keep the moves to 2-10 seconds and we'll stay friends. If the opponent's situation is so dominant, they should be able to wrap it fairly quickly. If you're burning thru you're whole clock, it's just simply rude.
I think that essentially sums it up. If the person who is down is showing some initiative, trying to get some counter play, looking to force some errors there is no issue with play continuing. Burning the whole clock is a completely different story. Along similar lines I have heard stories of adults who when playing children in classical OTB use up their whole clock and take ridiculous amounts of time on obvious or forced moves just to wear the child out and increase their odds of winning.
Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

I wish lichess didn't have take-backs, adding opponent's clock (can be used for trolling), and prompting to select victory / draw when the opponent leaves the game.

I've accidentally clicked a draw before; just doesn't make sense to ask at all.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by candb »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:51 pm I wish lichess didn't have take-backs, adding opponent's clock (can be used for trolling), and prompting to select victory / draw when the opponent leaves the game.

I've accidentally clicked a draw before; just doesn't make sense to ask at all.
You can turn off take-backs and adding clock time in Preferences.

You can also set it to confirm draw offers or resignation.
Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

candb wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:36 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:51 pm I wish lichess didn't have take-backs, adding opponent's clock (can be used for trolling), and prompting to select victory / draw when the opponent leaves the game.

I've accidentally clicked a draw before; just doesn't make sense to ask at all.
You can turn off take-backs and adding clock time in Preferences.

You can also set it to confirm draw offers or resignation.
Ugh I guess those goodies are unavailable for pickup anonymous games...but good to know for logged-in games :beer
Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

This is why getting fancy with the queen early on is a bad idea...https://lichess.org/eREMUxKV

I screwed up too but worked out OK in the end.
Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

Caruana blundered a rook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fVKrPzUfeU

I guess mistakes happen at the top level as well.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by gips »

i tend to resign long before mate is threatened. occasionally, at the very moment i’m about to resign, my opponent blunders but that’s rare.

back when i was 16 and playing over the board tournaments, the first time i had a winning position against an adult master, he informed me he wasn’t going to resign and i was going to need to mate him. i was taken aback, didn't know what to say so went back to looking at the board. he repeated himself loudly and asked if i’d heard him. not sure if it was intended but 60 seconds later we had quite a crowd around the table.

he resigned five moves later. thinking back on the game at the age of 65, i guess it was a form of trash talking. as was the custom back then, we reviewed the game and i recall he was very gracious.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

Carlsen won Tata Steel 2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT63cb_IMXc

Mamedyarov seems to be playing well these days, along with Giri.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:28 pm This is why getting fancy with the queen early on is a bad idea...https://lichess.org/eREMUxKV

I screwed up too but worked out OK in the end.
It's typically viewed as less bad for Black to bring his queen out early. It's akin to 'bringing a gun to a knife fight', and it can be done well by a good player, but most novice players are too obsessed with their queen in the first place and don't know how to handle the piece well, so it usually ends poorly for them.
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Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:21 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:28 pm This is why getting fancy with the queen early on is a bad idea...https://lichess.org/eREMUxKV

I screwed up too but worked out OK in the end.
It's typically viewed as less bad for Black to bring his queen out early. It's akin to 'bringing a gun to a knife fight', and it can be done well by a good player, but most novice players are too obsessed with their queen in the first place and don't know how to handle the piece well, so it usually ends poorly for them.
Really? I almost never bring my queen early; one issue is queen is often attacked and you have to move her somewhere, which wastes moves for rapid development of other pieces.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:48 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:21 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:28 pm This is why getting fancy with the queen early on is a bad idea...https://lichess.org/eREMUxKV

I screwed up too but worked out OK in the end.
It's typically viewed as less bad for Black to bring his queen out early. It's akin to 'bringing a gun to a knife fight', and it can be done well by a good player, but most novice players are too obsessed with their queen in the first place and don't know how to handle the piece well, so it usually ends poorly for them.
Really? I almost never bring my queen early; one issue is queen is often attacked and you have to move her somewhere, which wastes moves for rapid development of other pieces.
Yes, that's why it takes accurate play to bring out a queen early. Take a look at the Danvers Opening. Even Nakamura has used it in a tournament.
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Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:12 am Yes, that's why it takes accurate play to bring out a queen early. Take a look at the Danvers Opening. Even Nakamura has used it in a tournament.
I usually play Sicilian so it won't go exactly like that, but I've seen:
1. e4 c5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. Qh5
or something along those lines.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:23 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:12 am Yes, that's why it takes accurate play to bring out a queen early. Take a look at the Danvers Opening. Even Nakamura has used it in a tournament.
I usually play Sicilian so it won't go exactly like that, but I've seen:
1. e4 c5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. Qh5
or something along those lines.
Yeah, Stockfish certainly doesn't like 3. Qh5.
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halfnine
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by halfnine »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:48 pm ...I almost never bring my queen early; one issue is queen is often attacked and you have to move her somewhere, which wastes moves for rapid development of other pieces...
There are at least a few thematic ideas that support early queen development that I am aware of. The first takes advantage of the pawn weakness on either b or g that exists when a player develops a bishop. Particularly so if the bishop's retreat is then blocked by another piece movement (typically a pawn). The black anti-London Qb6 lines are a case in point. There are also various anti-Colle lines where either Bf5 or Bg4 is played followed by e6. My youngest scores 70% against these lines with c4, Qb3 as they require precise play by the opponent. Of course in other similar lines, the b and g pawns are often poisoned, but if one knows their theory one can often score well and with little risk.

Another time early queen development can work out is when your opponent over extends early without protecting advanced pieces. The queen can often check the king (Qa4 or Qa5) and then capture the opponent's loose piece on that row. The same idea can often be used to defend one's own piece on the row instead.

And there are openings where one might gambit a pawn for early development. The lead in development can support early queen movement. A good, relatively sound (certainly at below titled level) example of that is the Nf6 Scandinavian. My eldest scores around 65% on these lines if the opponent tries to defend their extra pawn advantage including a couple of blitz wins against some Fide 2200s.

There is a line in the otherwise dubious Grob that encompasses all three of the above. Even more amazing is that all of black's moves are natural moves and are the most common played in the 1800-2200 range on Lichess. (Of course it is still quite rare that black would play all the moves without deviation)

1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 c6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. Qb3 e6 6. Qa4+ Nc6 7. Qxg4
Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

halfnine wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:39 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:48 pm ...I almost never bring my queen early; one issue is queen is often attacked and you have to move her somewhere, which wastes moves for rapid development of other pieces...
There are at least a few thematic ideas that support early queen development that I am aware of. The first takes advantage of the pawn weakness on either b or g that exists when a player develops a bishop. Particularly so if the bishop's retreat is then blocked by another piece movement (typically a pawn). The black anti-London Qb6 lines are a case in point. There are also various anti-Colle lines where either Bf5 or Bg4 is played followed by e6. My youngest scores 70% against these lines with c4, Qb3 as they require precise play by the opponent. Of course in other similar lines, the b and g pawns are often poisoned, but if one knows their theory one can often score well and with little risk.

Another time early queen development can work out is when your opponent over extends early without protecting advanced pieces. The queen can often check the king (Qa4 or Qa5) and then capture the opponent's loose piece on that row. The same idea can often be used to defend one's own piece on the row instead.

And there are openings where one might gambit a pawn for early development. The lead in development can support early queen movement. A good, relatively sound (certainly at below titled level) example of that is the Nf6 Scandinavian. My eldest scores around 65% on these lines if the opponent tries to defend their extra pawn advantage including a couple of blitz wins against some Fide 2200s.

There is a line in the otherwise dubious Grob that encompasses all three of the above. Even more amazing is that all of black's moves are natural moves and are the most common played in the 1800-2200 range on Lichess. (Of course it is still quite rare that black would play all the moves without deviation)

1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 c6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. Qb3 e6 6. Qa4+ Nc6 7. Qxg4
For sure. I guess my game isn't good enough to the point of sacrificing a pawn for early development, besides QGA.

Grob looks crazy! I don't think I've faced it yet but I'd be mad if I lost a bishop this way :D
Northern Flicker
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Northern Flicker »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:51 pm I wish lichess didn't have take-backs, adding opponent's clock (can be used for trolling), and prompting to select victory / draw when the opponent leaves the game.

I've accidentally clicked a draw before; just doesn't make sense to ask at all.
Adding time to your clock is a non-issue. You don't have to use the time. It is the time left on the clock of a player in a lost position and the increment that determines how long the fate can be delayed by not resigning.

I don't like long increments as a result-- "5 0" and "5 3" are good. "5 5" or "2 12" encourages bitter-enders.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by gips »

as i’ve gotten older, the spread between my blitz rating and 10 0 rating has increased to 300-400 points. on one hand my mind is definitely slower and on the other hand, i have deeper positional understanding which comes into play in slower time controls.

so i’ve been experimenting with attacking chess in the faster games and it seems to be helping. first, opponents underestimate my game since they see the blitz rating but not the standard rating. second, i’m finding questionable or even slightly unsound attacking moves cause my opponents to make bad moves under pressure. so i’ve had some nice wins (and some quick losses), generally having more fun!
Last edited by gips on Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by gips »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:12 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:23 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:12 am Yes, that's why it takes accurate play to bring out a queen early. Take a look at the Danvers Opening. Even Nakamura has used it in a tournament.
I usually play Sicilian so it won't go exactly like that, but I've seen:
1. e4 c5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. Qh5
or something along those lines.
Yeah, Stockfish certainly doesn't like 3. Qh5.
i’ve been seeing 3 qh5 more often, seems like black can play naturally and reach equality, not a bad opening for white if one doesnt want to memorize a lot of opening theory.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Northern Flicker »

With tempo in hand, white can get away with all sorts of non-standard openings as long as only 1 tempo is squandered.

GM Tony Miles once opened a serious game against Karpov with 1 a3. This is saying, "I'll play the black pieces but I want a tempo for moving my a pawn".
Last edited by Northern Flicker on Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gips
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by gips »

an opponent played the bongcloud against me, I was able to mount a strong attack but did feel a lot of pressure to win...which I guess is the point. I hate to play against the grob for the same reason but acknowledge that in the hands of a skilled player, it's a tough go.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by gips »

so, I have what must be the weakest line to fischer, back in the 70s, a guy in our chess club beat fisher in a blitz tournament in nyc and I dunno, came in 2nd or something. He showed up at our club the next friday night and everyone stood up and clapped. the game was reviewed by robert byrne (i think it was byrne) in the nyt. I don't really remember his uscf rating but he wasn't a master, probably a strong expert.

there were around 10 of us kids in the club, all btw 14 and 16 and one of my friends got the idea that if we can beat this guy, we'll have bragging rights that we beat someone who beat fisher. but there was etiquette in play at the club and we couldn't just walk up to an adult and ask for a game, even if it was a casual game. in our last tournament, I had lost to a woman that was top ten in the US, we had a good game, and I setup a deep trap (which she found), so I asked if she'd mind asking this guy if he'd play me one blitz game at the end of the night.

he agreed, I recall I played the ruy, won a pawn, simplified and won. I walked back to the skittles room where my friends hung out, told them what happened and everyone started screaming. the president of chess club walked back to see what was going on and at first he just laughed but then he walked out of the room and asked if the guy would play him. word got out and from that point on, he could have charged $20 a game. In fact, at some point he stopped showing up at the club because so many people were gunning for him.

so, yeah, that's my line to fischer.
Last edited by gips on Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Northern Flicker »

gips wrote: i’ve been seeing 3 qh5 more often, seems like black can play naturally and reach equality, not a bad opening for white if one doesnt want to memorize a lot of opening theory.
The Center Game is a better option. After 1 e4 e5 2 d4 ed 3 Qd4 Nc6 4 Qe3 white will play Nc3, Bd2, and 0-0-0 and launch a K-side attack after black typically castles K-side.
Last edited by Northern Flicker on Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Marseille07
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

gips wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:53 pm so, I have what must be the weakest line to fisher, back in the 70s, a guy in our chess club beat fisher in a blitz tournament in nyc and I dunno, came in 2nd or something. He showed up at our club the next friday night and everyone stood up and clapped. the game was reviewed by robert byrne (i think it was byrne) in the nyt. I don't really remember his uscf rating but he wasn't a master, probably a strong expert.

there were around 10 of us kids in the club, all btw 14 and 16 and one of my friends got the idea that if we can beat this guy, we'll have bragging rights that we beat someone who beat fisher. but there was etiquette in play at the club and we couldn't just walk up to an adult and ask for a game, even if it was a casual game. in our last tournament, I had lost to a woman that was top ten in the US, we had a good game, and I setup a deep trap (which she found), so I asked if she'd mind asking this guy if he'd play me one blitz game at the end of the night.

he agreed, I recall I played the ruy, won a pawn, simplified and won. I walked back to the skittles room where my friends hung out, told them what happened and everyone started screaming. the president of chess club walked back to see what was going on and at first he just laughed but then he walked out of the room and asked if the guy would play him. word got out and from that point on, he could have charged $20 a game. In fact, at some point he stopped showing up at the club because so many people were gunning for him.

so, yeah, that's my line to fisher.
Good ol' Bobby Fischer. I remember the film Searching for Bobby Fischer; the chess prodigy Josh Waitzkin no longer plays chess :(
gips
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by gips »

it’s sad waitzkin walked away but fischer dropping the mike is a tragedy. in real life, the kid waitzkin beat in the movie (it was actually a draw) was, imo, stronger than waitzkin and was forced to walk away from chess.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:59 pmI remember the film Searching for Bobby Fischer; the chess prodigy Josh Waitzkin no longer plays chess :(
Paul Morphy stopped playing chess after becoming the unofficial world champion and died at a young age. Fischer quasi-disappeared after doing the same, and his reemergence revealed that he was no longer a healthy minded person.

Perhaps Waitzkin didn't want to follow in their footsteps.

As they say, it's lonely at the top.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by Marseille07 »

Women's World Champion Hou Yifan also walked away from the game as well.
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by gips »

i have mixed emotions about playing the stafford gambit. It leaves me cold when my opponent falls into one of the known traps...I mean what's the point, easy rating points? Now most players know a refutation line or two but I'm castling opposite and finding excellent attacking chances. with careful play, white has the advantage but in blitz...
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Re: Let's play chess

Post by halfnine »

As far as I can tell the only redeeming quality of blitz is it allows one to gain a lot of experience with one's openings and the thematics of the middle games that ensue. Doubly so if one is trying out or switching to a new opening. Certainly one will gain this knowledge in a much faster time frame compared to playing in longer time controls. So playing dubious openings because they are effective at short time controls would be counter to this purpose. Blitz also tends to reward agressive play that leaves pieces hanging and pawns overextended which entrenches bad habits. And, at some higher rating level, these openings and tactics aren't really all that effective any more either so in that sense it is counterproductive as well.

All that, of course, doesn't rule out playing blitz in any style you want simply because it is a lot of fun.
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