time for a new car

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Topic Author
schmitz
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:21 pm

time for a new car

Post by schmitz »

its been awhile since I've had to do this but my car is on its last legs (11 years old, 250k+ miles). It still runs as Ive (unfortunately) put a lot of money into it recently, but Ive hit the point where the inconvenience is getting to be too much of a hassle.

so where do I start?

I guess I first need to figure out what I want. I drive a lot so I'm looking at something reliable and cheaper to maintain than my current mercedes. I think the most popular models seem to be a honda accord or toyota camry but I'm open to other suggestions/recommendations.

I think I also am looking for a slightly used one so I don't get hit with the depreciation most cars seem to take the first few years.

1) when they say "certified pre owned" is that just a marketing ploy or does it really mean anything?

2) do I need to get a used car checked by a private mechanic if Im buying from a dealership?

3) I'd like to pay cash but I know dealerships dont like this. So how do you reply if they ask you "cash or finance?" right off the bat?

4) Or can I get a better deal financing and then pay it off in the first month?

5) is there a website that compares maintenance costs for each type of car so I can get a better idea of how much a car will cost me over the next 5-10 years?

any help is always appreciated. if there are any old threads that are worth checking out, links to read or youtube videos to watch, please let me know. thanks and hope everyone is having a nice holiday season!
mortfree
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Re: time for a new car

Post by mortfree »

If you buy a Honda or Toyota just buy a new one. They price the used ones close to the new ones and you keep your cars a long time.

They usually give a “lower price” if you finance it. then pay it off after a month or so.

Go to the dealer website. Find the model you like and note the stock id number of that vehicle.

Email and ask for the best out the door price. This price should apply to any accord with the same MSRP since they don’t usually have different options within trim levels.


Should be routine maintenance on either an accord or Camry. So probably not necessary to research that.

Good luck.
h82goslw
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Re: time for a new car

Post by h82goslw »

I bought a 2018 Camry last year that was a previous rental. Got a great deal and car has been perfect.
MarkBarb
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Re: time for a new car

Post by MarkBarb »

The main benefit I've seen from a CPO car is the warranty that comes with it. Estimate what you'd pay for a comparable warranty and use that to help assess whether the price differential is worth it.

Given that you drive a lot of miles, I would definitely err on the side of a used car because extra miles crushes resale value. In fact, I would lean towards a not very old car that already has a fairly large number of miles if you can ascertain whether those are highway miles rather than something drive by a realtor or someone that makes lots of short trips. Highway miles are relatively benign. I think cold starts are where the most wear occurs.

If you do the finance to get a deal and then pay it off right away trick (which we've done for our last few cars), talk to the dealer first. They typically get credit if you keep the loan for 3 payment cycles. We worked this out as an informal agreement with the dealer. Of course, if you want to stick it to the dealer instead of the lender, you could do the opposite.
Aged Maduro
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Re: time for a new car

Post by Aged Maduro »

If i were in your shoes i would buy a brand new base model Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. They are both excellent vehicles and won't go wrong either way. The base model will have all the necessary safety features and more comfort than what you're already used to in your previous vehicle. It is actually better to buy new when purchasing a Toyota and Honda because they depreciate so slowly compared to other brands so there is no worry about taking it to a mechanic. With interest rates so low i would put 20% down and finance the rest over 3 years. If you can pay it off sooner great, if not it's no big deal. Most Toyota and Honda dealerships have their best prices posted online and there is not much wiggle room as they need to be competitive to get people in the door. Do some research beforehand on their website and select the ones you want to test drive before you go it.
Naismith
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Re: time for a new car

Post by Naismith »

mortfree wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:41 pm If you buy a Honda or Toyota just buy a new one. They price the used ones close to the new ones and you keep your cars a long time.
+1
We had to buy new cars when we returned to the US, and that was our experience. We bought a Toyota Prius and Honda Fit, and there are very few of those available as used.

We had bought previous rental cars in the past, and that was also a good option, especially if you want a fully loaded option.
ThankYouJack
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Re: time for a new car

Post by ThankYouJack »

MarkBarb wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:47 pm
Given that you drive a lot of miles, I would definitely err on the side of a used car because extra miles crushes resale value. In fact, I would lean towards a not very old car that already has a fairly large number of miles if you can ascertain whether those are highway miles rather than something drive by a realtor or someone that makes lots of short trips. Highway miles are relatively benign. I think cold starts are where the most wear occurs.
I was thinking the opposite, but I think it depends on the car. For example, if the OP is planning to get a car with high resale value, like a Japanese sedan that he/she mentioned. Maybe you can save a little in the long run buying used, but it's rolling the dice a bit more buying a high mileage car. If the OP is planning to spend say around $25k on a new car and keep it for 250k miles, I would just go new.
Tingting1013
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Re: time for a new car

Post by Tingting1013 »

The cost of owning a car comes down to primarily three variables:

1. The depreciation of the car during the time that you own it. To be more specific:
( the price you pay - the price you sell it for ) / number of years you own it

2. Any out of warranty repairs you have to pay out of pocket for. Also, scheduled maintenance.

3. Fuel costs, whether gas or electric.

(I am omitting insurance as that generally has more to do with your driving history, age, and credit score than the car itself)

A used car may be cheaper on #1 but more expensive on #2. A CPO may be cheaper on #2 but you may pay a higher upfront cost, leading to higher cost on #1.

For most non-luxury cars, #1 + #2 should be around $2k/year. If you can get it down to $1k you are doing really well.

Right now the highest financial ROI for any car is probably buying a new electric car, claiming all the tax credits and utility rebates, and then selling it a year later for basically what you paid for it. Rinse and repeat.
Last edited by Tingting1013 on Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CurlyDave
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Re: time for a new car

Post by CurlyDave »

With some cars it is actually cheaper to buy new than late model used. Especially if one is financing.

The reason is that there are factory incentives on new cars and special financing.

I have seen many foolish people think "I can't afford a new car" and drive out with a used one with higher and longer payments than a new one would have been.
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Watty
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Re: time for a new car

Post by Watty »

schmitz wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:33 pm so where do I start?
I would start with the cars that got a top safety pick.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks

There are enough choices on that list that I would have a hard time buying a car that did not make that list.

I don't know about other brands but Toyota made a lot of the advanced safety features standard equipment in 2018 so a 2018 model and a 2017 may be very different even if they look the same. If you do decide to buy a used car be sure to carefully read the details of the specifications.
schmitz wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:33 pm any help is always appreciated. if there are any old threads that are worth checking out, links to read or youtube videos to watch, please let me know.
Here is a long ongoing thread about new car buying tips.

viewtopic.php?t=124638

Here is a post that I did about my online car buying experience a few years ago. This is the third new car that I have bought like that.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=239526&p=3746230
mortfree wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:41 pm If you buy a Honda or Toyota just buy a new one. They price the used ones close to the new ones and you keep your cars a long time.
+1

After I bought my Corolla a few years later I was seeing identical used Corollas at places like CarMax listed for more than I paid for my new car even when they were two years old.

One huge advantage of buying a new car is that they are basically a commodity so that you can work out a deal with a dealership that is 50 miles away.

An additional problem with buying a used car now is that the used car market had gone crazy with the pandemic and there have been a number of threads and news articles about that.

schmitz wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:33 pm I think the most popular models seem to be a honda accord or toyota camry but I'm open to other suggestions/recommendations.
The Avalon is the Toyota sedan that is larger than a Camry and especially for a used car those would also be worth looking at to. It is more upscale than the Camry and it is often owned by older drivers who have not put a lot of miles on them so you might be able to find a good used one.

They generally make cars larger over time so that my 2018 Corolla is almost the same size as a 2000 Camry I had. Sizewise you could consider that too, it is a fine car for what it is but coming from a Mercedes you might not be very happy with the more basic features and finish.
adamthesmythe
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Re: time for a new car

Post by adamthesmythe »

schmitz wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:33 pm I think I also am looking for a slightly used one so I don't get hit with the depreciation most cars seem to take the first few years.
Your thinking about depreciation has become warped from owning a Mercedes.

Look at used vs. new prices for Toyandas before you decide to go used. I think you will find there is no point.
DSBH
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Re: time for a new car

Post by DSBH »

Infinitis are very good cars but for whatever reason suffer above average depreciation. Other than sure things such as brand new Honda Accord / Toyota Camry, 2-3 year old and less than 30k mile Infiniti sedan such as the Q50 can be purchased at roughly similar prices as new base Accord / Camry.
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Strayshot
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Re: time for a new car

Post by Strayshot »

Previously I bought all of my cars new and usually kept them around a decade. Most recently when an accident totaled my car I went the CarMax route with a vehicle a little over a year old and was extremely pleased. Whatever you are looking for, the ability to shop all CarMax sites, deliver the car locally, and have them fix any issues that pop up in the first few months of ownership for free is amazing. They also offer an extended warranty at sale that is a reasonable deal especially for cars that are only 3/36 factory.
Not sure I will ever buy new again.
123
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Re: time for a new car

Post by 123 »

If you drive a lot and keep your cars a long time I think it could be better to buy new. Many used vehicles don't come at that much of a savings when you consider that sometimes they come with many miles already on them.
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slidecreek
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Re: time for a new car

Post by slidecreek »

schmitz wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:33 pm
1) when they say "certified pre owned" is that just a marketing ploy or does it really mean anything?

2) do I need to get a used car checked by a private mechanic if Im buying from a dealership?

3) I'd like to pay cash but I know dealerships dont like this. So how do you reply if they ask you "cash or finance?" right off the bat?

4) Or can I get a better deal financing and then pay it off in the first month?

5) is there a website that compares maintenance costs for each type of car so I can get a better idea of how much a car will cost me over the next 5-10 years?
1. CPO is mostly a marketing ploy. Usually it just means used + a warranty of some kind.

2. I know a good mechanic, so I would, but this really depends on the kind of car you are buying. It would be more important on a higher end vehicle.

3. Negotiate a cash price first, then offer to finance if it gets you a better deal.

4. You can generally refinance or payoff immediately, but don't let the dealership know you might do this. Prepayment penalties are illegal in many states.

5. Required maintenance items could be researched, but the more expensive unexpected repairs are kind of an unknown until a model is 5-10 years old. Pay attention to things like tire sizes, as the costs and availably can differ significantly.
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Sandi_k
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Re: time for a new car

Post by Sandi_k »

If you drive a lot of miles, I'd look at some variation of a Toyota hybrid.

I bought a 2019 RAV4 hybrid last year, new. It's been flawless. Averages 42 mpg, as compared to my previous (larger) Lexus RX350, which got 21 mpg over the 256k miles I owned it.
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JoeRetire
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Re: time for a new car

Post by JoeRetire »

schmitz wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:33 pm its been awhile since I've had to do this but my car is on its last legs (11 years old, 250k+ miles). It still runs as Ive (unfortunately) put a lot of money into it recently, but Ive hit the point where the inconvenience is getting to be too much of a hassle.

so where do I start?

I guess I first need to figure out what I want. I drive a lot so I'm looking at something reliable and cheaper to maintain than my current mercedes. I think the most popular models seem to be a honda accord or toyota camry but I'm open to other suggestions/recommendations.
My Honda Accord was the best car I ever owned.
I think I also am looking for a slightly used one so I don't get hit with the depreciation most cars seem to take the first few years.
Check prices. Slightly used Hondas and Toyotas probably will not have depreciated as much as you might imagine.
1) when they say "certified pre owned" is that just a marketing ploy or does it really mean anything?
Both. It's a marketing ploy that means the dealer has inspected the vehicle according to their checklist and is probably covered by a limited warranty.
2) do I need to get a used car checked by a private mechanic if Im buying from a dealership?
You never need to get a vehicle checked before buying. But if you have a good mechanic that you trust, it would likely be worthwhile.
3) I'd like to pay cash but I know dealerships dont like this. So how do you reply if they ask you "cash or finance?" right off the bat?
Say "I haven't decided yet".
4) Or can I get a better deal financing and then pay it off in the first month?
Sometimes. Just ask. If the dealership is incentivized to sell financing then they won't care if you pay it off early.
5) is there a website that compares maintenance costs for each type of car so I can get a better idea of how much a car will cost me over the next 5-10 years?
Consumer Reports.
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: time for a new car

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

It depends.

You can make a gigantic spread sheet to really find the best choice. But with process of elimination, you can remove a lot of cars.

For example, some cars don't depreciate much at all and if the end of the year is here but the model you're looking at doesn't start shipping a new model year until the year actually flips (like Subaru WRX and STi, for example), you're going to run into short supply which pushes the prices up. Examples are Jeep Wrangler, Toyota Tacoma and Honda Civic. Many times, you'll find 2 or even 3 year old cars are no cheaper than a brand new car. Do your homework.

How big of a car do you need? Yes, I get the Boglehead cry "buy a beige used Camry", as the best car is the most boring. But if you are fine with a Honda FIT, it's going to be cheaper to buy, especially used (they drop like a rock used), cost far less to run than a Camry and with a manual transmission are infinitely more fun than a Camry. I've owned an MG Midget and a Lotus Elise, so the FIT is a good, big, practical car in my mind. I get it that some people are so scared to go out their door, they need a Suburban so when they have a panic attack, they inflict maximum damage on others.

The 3 things that cost anything that matters with most cars are depreciation, insurance and gas. Maintenance doesn't even come close in the calculations. Been there, done that back when I worked on the road and 30k miles would come onto my brand new car before it hit one year. So does that mean a cheap to buy, good gas mileage, regular gas that's not a high risk car is the cheapest to buy? Well, yes. And you really have to check insurance rates. A Subaru WRX carries a much higher insurance rate than a Subaru STi. Why? I don't know, but assume because the teenagers who wrap cars around trees don't have the extra money for the higher performance version.

Is there a "down brand" version of the car you're looking for? Although 2020 is the last model year for the Toyota Yaris, it's built by Mazda and is sold in the rest of the world as a Mazda 2. The previous version was also sold as a Ford Fiesta. The first generation Ford Fusion was a shared platform to the Mazda 6. The Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ are the exact same car. The new, cool Toyota Supra is a BMW Z4. If you are seriously looking at one car, look to see if there's a twin from a less prestigious brand. I mean even within a brand, models are duplicated. GM and Ford are notorious for this and calling out all the same models can be fun. At one time, the Ford Escape had twins with Mercury, Lincoln, and Land Rover.
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carolinaman
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Re: time for a new car

Post by carolinaman »

You should consider Lexus models which will have more of the features you are accustomed to with a Mercedes, are very reliable and are always highly rated. Your call on used versus new but like Camry this model holds its value really well.
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wander
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Re: time for a new car

Post by wander »

You should do fine with Toyota/Lexus/Honda/Acura. Frankly, I do not have any problem with Japanese cars. All of our cars last over 200k miles easily. My Nissan runs fine at 400k (I don't drive it often lately, otherwise, reaching 500k is not going to be a problem), Lexus runs fine at 300k, Honda runs fine at 200k miles. Honda is the one that I pay $zero for repair; but I can do all the repairs so only spend money on parts. Same with the Lexus, but it is always giving a smile when I accelerate for its smooth and quietness. Nissan engine is very reliable but build materials are cheap and faling (door locks, ...). FWIW, our next car will be a Lexus. The idea is to drive it to the ground, but we have not junked any car yet.
epictetus
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Re: time for a new car

Post by epictetus »

i would suggest buy a new toyota with cash.

you know what you are getting. you will have full warranty. there is not much depreciation on new toyotas over first few years.

if you do it before end of year you may get good deal re: dealers trying to hit their end of month and end of year numbers.
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ondarvr
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Re: time for a new car

Post by ondarvr »

This option isn't for everyone, but it's worked well for me over the years and is getting better now.

I buy salvage title vehicles, there are dealers that specialize in selling them. You get a complete report of the circumstances that required the branded title. Plus they completely go through the vehicle. They also won't take in flood damaged vehicles, so thats a plus. And they tell you where in the country the vehicle came from, they don't hide anything.

The last two Hondas were very low mileage, one with 375 miles, and the other with 3,800 miles. The prices are significantly less than what you'd expect.

There are numerous reasons why a car may have a salvage title, and it doesn't take much.

If it's crash damage you get a printout of the wreck, and a detailed report of the parts replaced. There are a lot of them with fender and bumper damage and no airbag deployment.

I bought my truck 10 years ago with very low mileage and a salvage title, hood, fender, bumper, grill and radiator damage from sliding off the road, no airbag deployed.

I'll probably go this route on my next vehicle, but it will be years from now because both of my current vehicles are low mileage and we aren't driving much.
Topic Author
schmitz
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Re: time for a new car

Post by schmitz »

wow - so much to digest here. thanks for all the replies! I will go over them in detail.

quick follow-up question: if I say "I havent decided yet" referring to paying cash or finance, will he give me the finance price, and if I then offer cash will he pull that offer from the table? or am I allowed to pay cash with whatever price they quote me?
Equitius
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Re: time for a new car

Post by Equitius »

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Last edited by Equitius on Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
adamthesmythe
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Re: time for a new car

Post by adamthesmythe »

schmitz wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:08 pm wow - so much to digest here. thanks for all the replies! I will go over them in detail.

quick follow-up question: if I say "I havent decided yet" referring to paying cash or finance, will he give me the finance price, and if I then offer cash will he pull that offer from the table? or am I allowed to pay cash with whatever price they quote me?
In the course of negotiating, I asked about an attractive finance rate that was advertised. They said I could have that or a rebate, not both.

Some (on the web) recommend negotiating a bottom line price without saying whether you plan to finance.

Once you get a worksheet with a bottom line price you like they would have a hard time turning down a cashier's check for the bottom line.
30west
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Re: time for a new car

Post by 30west »

My co-worker used Carvana and had a very good experience. I believe you can return a car in 7 day for a full refund. CarMax lets you return too, but you are stuck with store credit, iirc.
phxjcc
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Re: time for a new car

Post by phxjcc »

schmitz wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:08 pm wow - so much to digest here. thanks for all the replies! I will go over them in detail.

quick follow-up question: if I say "I havent decided yet" referring to paying cash or finance, will he give me the finance price, and if I then offer cash will he pull that offer from the table? or am I allowed to pay cash with whatever price they quote me?
If you hem and haw, they will think you are not serious, and therefore you will not get their best offer.
No tinting, VIN etching, scotchguard, paint potction, nitrogen in tires, or DMV processing fees.

Finance it and you will get the best price, period.

Pay it off on the 91st day after the purchase if you want, per the T's and C's of the finance agreement.

Look for a mom-and-and pop dealer for the brand you want and stay away from Autonation, Lithia, Penske, etc. small town dealers can actually be a decent experience.

Carvana, Carmax, and Costco/AAA / etc all buying clubs can get you a deal without haggling.

BE AWARE THAT SUPPLY IS SECERELY CONSTRAINED.
Unless you absolutely HAVE to buy now, wait until next fall.
KandT
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Re: time for a new car

Post by KandT »

For TOTAL cost have you considered electric? You can charge it at your house and have 356 miles of range ready for you in the morning (Tesla Model 3).

IF you are paying 0.11/kWh, it should cost you roughly $6.95 to fill it up for a 300 mile day. 10 gallons of gas would be closer to $30.

Also it has regenerative breaking using the motors to slow you down so rarely (likely never) would you need a brake job. No oil changes. No timing belts.

The performance is excellent. If you need to go over 356 miles the Supercharger stations are plentiful and show up on the screen so finding them is no issue. It lets you know if you need to stop or can make into the next one.

Tesla car services have quite a few with tons of miles on them and they are abused.
palanzo
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Re: time for a new car

Post by palanzo »

phxjcc wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:06 am
schmitz wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:08 pm wow - so much to digest here. thanks for all the replies! I will go over them in detail.

quick follow-up question: if I say "I havent decided yet" referring to paying cash or finance, will he give me the finance price, and if I then offer cash will he pull that offer from the table? or am I allowed to pay cash with whatever price they quote me?
If you hem and haw, they will think you are not serious, and therefore you will not get their best offer.
No tinting, VIN etching, scotchguard, paint potction, nitrogen in tires, or DMV processing fees.

Finance it and you will get the best price, period.

Pay it off on the 91st day after the purchase if you want, per the T's and C's of the finance agreement.

Look for a mom-and-and pop dealer for the brand you want and stay away from Autonation, Lithia, Penske, etc. small town dealers can actually be a decent experience.

Carvana, Carmax, and Costco/AAA / etc all buying clubs can get you a deal without haggling.

BE AWARE THAT SUPPLY IS SECERELY CONSTRAINED.
Unless you absolutely HAVE to buy now, wait until next fall.
Stay away from Sonic dealerships as well.

Supply is not severely constrained across all makes and models. 100s of Honda CR-Vs and Accords at a local dealership. I don't call that severely constrained.
gofishdw
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Re: time for a new car

Post by gofishdw »

I always order buy new, but that's my choice since I keep Suburbans or Yukon XL's for a long time. Look at
carprousa.com and search for a dealer in your area. Very informative site. You can check the preferred
dealers inventory and then (important)- contact the dealer from the website about the car of your choice. You get a bottom line price
and excellent service. I bought a Subaru from a carpro dealer and feel it worth my time to drive from
New Orleans to Houston. There is also a carprousa radio show on Saturdays that you can download from Apple,
Spotify or iHeart.Very informative and entertaining.
PS, I have no skin in the game, just a satisfied listener and user of carpro dealers.
rockstar
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Re: time for a new car

Post by rockstar »

I like carcomplaints.com to get an idea as what to expect with ownership. Then, I look at Costco and True Car pricing to get an idea as to price. Finally, I test drive vehicles that fit my needs. If you're using the vehicle the for stuff beyond your day to day commute, then you want to make sure it can handle it. For example, if you're towing a boat or camper, you want to make sure the vehicle can do it. Finally, what do you need to mod on the vehicle after you buy it? I swapped out the tires on my current vehicle because the stock ones were awful.
squirm
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Re: time for a new car

Post by squirm »

Just get a new Honda or Toyota, the difference between new and "pre-owned" isn't enough to justify the hassle and you don't have to worry about finding a mechanic, blah blah blah. You can't go wrong with either of those makers. Pay cash, enjoy and move on with life.
phxjcc
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Re: time for a new car

Post by phxjcc »

palanzo wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:16 pm
phxjcc wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:06 am
schmitz wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:08 pm wow - so much to digest here. thanks for all the replies! I will go over them in detail.

quick follow-up question: if I say "I havent decided yet" referring to paying cash or finance, will he give me the finance price, and if I then offer cash will he pull that offer from the table? or am I allowed to pay cash with whatever price they quote me?
If you hem and haw, they will think you are not serious, and therefore you will not get their best offer.
No tinting, VIN etching, scotchguard, paint potction, nitrogen in tires, or DMV processing fees.

Finance it and you will get the best price, period.

Pay it off on the 91st day after the purchase if you want, per the T's and C's of the finance agreement.

Look for a mom-and-and pop dealer for the brand you want and stay away from Autonation, Lithia, Penske, etc. small town dealers can actually be a decent experience.

Carvana, Carmax, and Costco/AAA / etc all buying clubs can get you a deal without haggling.

BE AWARE THAT SUPPLY IS SECERELY CONSTRAINED.
Unless you absolutely HAVE to buy now, wait until next fall.
Stay away from Sonic dealerships as well.

Supply is not severely constrained across all makes and models. 100s of Honda CR-Vs and Accords at a local dealership. I don't call that severely constrained.
What would YOU call it?

How about “the most popular makes/models/trim levels are seeing demand far exceeding of supply and are therefore seeing no reduction in sales price from MSRP”

Seems verbose, so I chose the shorter statement.
You want the red Dodge Journey with the red mouse fur interior, you can get a smokin’ deal.

Honestly, some people.
TheGraduate
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:06 pm

Re: time for a new car

Post by TheGraduate »

Just to chime in here on new vs used:

I bought a Tacoma a few years ago. The used prices on these things are CRAZY. No reason at all to buy used.

It seems things like BMWs depreciate realllly quickly, though.
tibbitts
Posts: 13506
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: time for a new car

Post by tibbitts »

Aged Maduro wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:48 pm If i were in your shoes i would buy a brand new base model Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. They are both excellent vehicles and won't go wrong either way. The base model will have all the necessary safety features and more comfort than what you're already used to in your previous vehicle. It is actually better to buy new when purchasing a Toyota and Honda because they depreciate so slowly compared to other brands so there is no worry about taking it to a mechanic. With interest rates so low i would put 20% down and finance the rest over 3 years. If you can pay it off sooner great, if not it's no big deal. Most Toyota and Honda dealerships have their best prices posted online and there is not much wiggle room as they need to be competitive to get people in the door. Do some research beforehand on their website and select the ones you want to test drive before you go it.
I disagree with the base model recommendation: of course it's model-specific, but for something you're going to keep for a few years, saving a little and missing features you'd enjoy is just silly. But more importantly, my recent experience has been that test drives aren't practical. You're going to end up with maskless salesperson hanging all over you and touching every surface you touch. So put on your hazmat suite with breathing apparatus if you're going to try that and have somebody ready to hose you down when the test drive is over. It's just a miserable time to buy a car.
Aged Maduro
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:17 pm

Re: time for a new car

Post by Aged Maduro »

tibbitts wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:00 am
Aged Maduro wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:48 pm If i were in your shoes i would buy a brand new base model Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. They are both excellent vehicles and won't go wrong either way. The base model will have all the necessary safety features and more comfort than what you're already used to in your previous vehicle. It is actually better to buy new when purchasing a Toyota and Honda because they depreciate so slowly compared to other brands so there is no worry about taking it to a mechanic. With interest rates so low i would put 20% down and finance the rest over 3 years. If you can pay it off sooner great, if not it's no big deal. Most Toyota and Honda dealerships have their best prices posted online and there is not much wiggle room as they need to be competitive to get people in the door. Do some research beforehand on their website and select the ones you want to test drive before you go it.
I disagree with the base model recommendation: of course it's model-specific, but for something you're going to keep for a few years, saving a little and missing features you'd enjoy is just silly. But more importantly, my recent experience has been that test drives aren't practical. You're going to end up with maskless salesperson hanging all over you and touching every surface you touch. So put on your hazmat suite with breathing apparatus if you're going to try that and have somebody ready to hose you down when the test drive is over. It's just a miserable time to buy a car.
It all depends on what your needs are. I am satisfied with the conveniences and safety features that are now standard on most base models. If one requires a laser guided heads up display, heated massaging butt warmers or a car that parallel parks itself then have at it. That is all stuff that is eventually going to break and cost me more time and money.
Topic Author
schmitz
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: time for a new car

Post by schmitz »

thanks again for all the replies.

I think ive narrowed down to the make and model I want.

so now im moving on to contacting the local dealerships.

my followup question is: am I supposed to look at invoice pricing or MSRP pricing when negotiating? I cant remember which one is more important to consider?
User avatar
Watty
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Re: time for a new car

Post by Watty »

schmitz wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:27 pm my followup question is: am I supposed to look at invoice pricing or MSRP pricing when negotiating? I cant remember which one is more important to consider?
The out the door price.
Horologium
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:08 am
Location: Chicagoland

Re: time for a new car

Post by Horologium »

Couple of comments:

- I've bought a couple of CPO'd cars. It's just a marketing ploy. But, one of the cars was a Lexus and they included a great warranty with their CPO program.

- I would never buy a used car - even a CPO - without having it checked out by a good mechanic.

- I have heard that car finance companies have "caught on" to buyers who finance the vehicle to get an incentive and then promptly pay off the loan. If you are considering doing that, be sure to find out what the early payoff terms for the loan are.

- Finally, one area where buyers routinely get fleeced by dealers are the fees (delivery charges, destination fees, etc). Some are mandatory, many are not. Do your due diligence on these fees and be ready to contest them.
dsmclone
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:50 am

Re: time for a new car

Post by dsmclone »

schmitz wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:27 pm thanks again for all the replies.

I think ive narrowed down to the make and model I want.

so now im moving on to contacting the local dealerships.

my followup question is: am I supposed to look at invoice pricing or MSRP pricing when negotiating? I cant remember which one is more important to consider?
If it was me, I'd find a message board related to that model. They usually have known issues and a post that says something like "prices paid". There is a huge swing in models that are discounting and the amount of discounting. For example, if you were to go into a KIA dealer right now and say "I will give you invoice on a Telluride", they would laugh in your face. On the other hand, if you did the same thing on another KIA model, they may work with you. Your best bet is to see what the market is like for that particular model. I would also consider how close that model is to a redesign. You may be able to get a great deal on a model that's has a new one coming out i.e. Acura MDX.
scudd
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:33 am

Re: time for a new car

Post by scudd »

phxjcc wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:21 am
palanzo wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:16 pm
phxjcc wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:06 am
schmitz wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:08 pm wow - so much to digest here. thanks for all the replies! I will go over them in detail.

quick follow-up question: if I say "I havent decided yet" referring to paying cash or finance, will he give me the finance price, and if I then offer cash will he pull that offer from the table? or am I allowed to pay cash with whatever price they quote me?
If you hem and haw, they will think you are not serious, and therefore you will not get their best offer.
No tinting, VIN etching, scotchguard, paint potction, nitrogen in tires, or DMV processing fees.

Finance it and you will get the best price, period.

Pay it off on the 91st day after the purchase if you want, per the T's and C's of the finance agreement.

Look for a mom-and-and pop dealer for the brand you want and stay away from Autonation, Lithia, Penske, etc. small town dealers can actually be a decent experience.

Carvana, Carmax, and Costco/AAA / etc all buying clubs can get you a deal without haggling.

BE AWARE THAT SUPPLY IS SECERELY CONSTRAINED.
Unless you absolutely HAVE to buy now, wait until next fall.
Stay away from Sonic dealerships as well.

Supply is not severely constrained across all makes and models. 100s of Honda CR-Vs and Accords at a local dealership. I don't call that severely constrained.
What would YOU call it?

How about “the most popular makes/models/trim levels are seeing demand far exceeding of supply and are therefore seeing no reduction in sales price from MSRP”

Seems verbose, so I chose the shorter statement.
You want the red Dodge Journey with the red mouse fur interior, you can get a smokin’ deal.

Honestly, some people.
Can you elaborate on this (actually curious here; considering buying a car this year)? If demand is exceeding supply, wouldn't this mean car prices would be higher in the near term?

Is the expectation that by fall, supply will be increased to match current demand?
phxjcc
Posts: 847
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: time for a new car

Post by phxjcc »

If you are after a new or slightly used car that fits in the 90/10 rule; 90% car transactions are 10% of the make/model spectra, then this applies.

If you want an Aston or RR Wraith, probably not.

But F150's, Palisades, Tacos, Highlander's (esp hybrid) are sold before they hit the lots.
Dodge Journey and any Mitsubishi are, umm, not in high demand...unless you can't get financing through tier one channels, then they will sell you one at a discount....for tier 3 financing at > 15%, plus nitrogen, etching, scotchguard, paint protection, wheel and tire warranty, DMV service fee, extended service contract and extended warranty. That 25K journey is now 34.9K + financing cost.

See Reddit /askcarsales for a good insight into the industry's current state.
Mind you, vulgarities and snark is much more prevalent over there...makes you appreciate our @mods.

ETA: in the fall?
Maybe, but the entir supply chain is compromised, and no on knows when it will improve.
Topic Author
schmitz
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: time for a new car

Post by schmitz »

OP here. Still mulling over what to do. I’m the type of guy who has trouble with big purchases. I keep second guessing every step of the way and don’t want to end up regretting my decision. Especially with such an expensive item.

Is there any financial advantage to buying a new car 6 months from now? I know I’ll need one soon (within the year) but do I gain anything from waiting or should I just go through with it sooner than later?
NJdad6
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:51 am

Re: time for a new car

Post by NJdad6 »

If looking for a sedan check out the Hyundai Sonata Limited or new Kia K5 EX. High safety scores, much higher than average reliability, loaded with tech, high quality luxury features and a 10yr/100k power train warranty. If you plan on keeping for many years depreciation is less of an issue.

If looking at Camry/Accord do yourself a favor and check them out. You may find you like them better (I did). My Sonata is holding up better than my previous Honda’s.
GG1273
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:21 pm
Location: NJ

Re: time for a new car

Post by GG1273 »

I did a CPO Camry - Labor Day 2019. Dealer had two top of line 2017s and a 2016 SE
I liked the 2016 a lot better and worked deal for it.
Love it - though I don't drive much with WFH, car only had 17K miles on it and was 3 1/2 years off the factory floor. Impeccable.
Also, should check the CarFax just in case something in the background that was reported
Agree with mechanic checking it out first

I decided against Accord as I don't like the CVT

Good Luck with your choice!
GG1273
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:21 pm
Location: NJ

Re: time for a new car

Post by GG1273 »

schmitz wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:30 pm OP here. Still mulling over what to do. I’m the type of guy who has trouble with big purchases. I keep second guessing every step of the way and don’t want to end up regretting my decision. Especially with such an expensive item.

Is there any financial advantage to buying a new car 6 months from now? I know I’ll need one soon (within the year) but do I gain anything from waiting or should I just go through with it sooner than later?
Not to get too into it :D
but my wife went and got a 2021 Honda HRV EX - dealership was empty and they were dying to work something out with her. Really depends on your area and how many dealers are around. In NJ, we have 7 Honda Dealers within a 25 mile radius of our house.
You can always walk away from a deal if not getting what you need. They'll work with you.
I hate it too but just go in with a firm mind-set and a co pilot if needed to steer the ship
iamlucky13
Posts: 2390
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: time for a new car

Post by iamlucky13 »

schmitz wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:30 pm OP here. Still mulling over what to do. I’m the type of guy who has trouble with big purchases. I keep second guessing every step of the way and don’t want to end up regretting my decision. Especially with such an expensive item.

Is there any financial advantage to buying a new car 6 months from now? I know I’ll need one soon (within the year) but do I gain anything from waiting or should I just go through with it sooner than later?
Bogleheads answer: nobody knows nothing.

Actual sales prices right now are a bit elevated due to still-constrained inventory. But some models still have good incentives being offered, so it's not an absolute.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2 ... 5cbd432f4d

Production rate will hopefully be more normal 6 months from now, but I would say there is no guarantee of that, especially if people's lives returning more to normal leads to a resurgence in demand from people holding off from buying because they haven't been driving as much as usual.

Also, I assume auto manufacturers are practicing what in my industry is called "capacity discipline" to avoid the risk of over-supply (which requires being willing to miss out on the upside if there is higher than expected demand), while they watch how things play out.
Topic Author
schmitz
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: time for a new car

Post by schmitz »

Assuming the car I want is the exact same price in July as it is now (I know we don’t know for sure but just for discussion sake) do I gain anything from waiting?

For example if I want Netflix and I don’t get it until July then I save 6 months of monthly fees. It’s easy to calculate the savings.

Does that work with a car at all?
benderbr
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:08 pm

Re: time for a new car

Post by benderbr »

By driving the old car you basically are driving for free for another 6 months, or consider it amortizing that vehicle's costs over a longer period.

You save 6 months ownership costs on a new car, wear and tear.

You can amortize the new car over a longer period if you think you would do the same.

Also an extra 6 months interest on your cash (not much).

All this goes out the window if your old car breaks down and needs an expensive repair or makes you have to rush to buy the new car and get a sub-optimal deal.
surfstar
Posts: 2586
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: time for a new car

Post by surfstar »

schmitz wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:15 pm Assuming the car I want is the exact same price in July as it is now (I know we don’t know for sure but just for discussion sake) do I gain anything from waiting?

For example if I want Netflix and I don’t get it until July then I save 6 months of monthly fees. It’s easy to calculate the savings.

Does that work with a car at all?
IMO, you should approach it differently.
If you know the car you want - research selling prices, especially car forums with "prices paid" threads for that model. With some research, you'll soon know what a good deal for that vehicle is.
Start searching, and when you find a great deal on one - buy it. Not having the pressure to need a car, allows you the patience to seek out a great deal over a mediocre deal.

If you just want a "car" and don't need a truck/cuv/suv/luxury/sport etc of specialized vehicles - I suggest you look into plug-in hybrids, IF you have enough federal tax liability. Example, DW bought a Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid) and with the federal tax credit ($4502), state rebate, utility rebate and other incentives, it was much, much cheaper to purchase than a regular Prius and cheaper than many used vehicles also.
Just a suggestion if you prioritize: value, economical ownership, reliability and longevity and are ok with an "appliance" vehicle.
thread example: https://priuschat.com/threads/prius-pri ... ad.174763/
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