MacOS Backup Software Problem

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tm3
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MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by tm3 »

Hopefully someone knowledgable can comment, or maybe direct me to where I might find an answer.

In addition to Time Machine I periodically make hard drive backups on another external drive, using the software Super Duper. Earlier this week I was prompted by Super Duper to do a software update, which I did. I then did a backup, which resulted in an error message. Super Duper tech support said that the message indicated a bad hard drive. I repaired the drive with Disk Utility, and tried again. Same result.

Curious about the coincidence, I downloaded a trial of another software backup program. Interestingly, when I repair the disk and run the new software, no problem. Super Duper again, same problem. Super Duper tech support assures me that this is coincidental, and that I need to replace the backup hard drive.

My concern is that if Super Duper is somehow inducing the drive failure, it will induce on a new drive also. So I'm unsure of how to proceed.

Any suggestions?
Theseus
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by Theseus »

I ignored Timemachine failures on my MacBook Pro for months (this backs up to my NAS at home). Should have called Apple support. Well, the laptop died - actually the hard disk (SSD) died. Luckily I also have iCloud back up. But I had to get a new hard drive. Apple wanted to charge almost $500. But one of their support guys at the store said I can buy and install it myself. I bought it but the slots didn't fit. Had to buy a $10 adapter.

But after that the laptop is working fine. Actually must faster because this SSD is much faster than my 2015 MacBook Pro. Only downside was I had to reinstall ALL the software as my backups were too old to recover from.

So bottom line is don't ignore the message. Call the Apple support (or take it to the store) as that is usually free and if they think HDD is dying, replace it while you can.
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tm3
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by tm3 »

Thanks for the comments. The drive in question is external, used for backup backups. It is a Seagate product, not Apple.
rkhusky
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by rkhusky »

It is unlikely that software will cause a hardware problem. Not a guarantee though that the software is correct. Hard drives are cheap, so I would get another one and see what happens.
BespokeBiker
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by BespokeBiker »

Don't know that I have an answer but I use SuperDuper! regularly to make backups of my MacBookPro to external drives.
Currently: MBP running OS 10.13 High Sierra / SuperDuper! 3.3.1 (v121)

If you have room on your computer's INTERNAL drive, try an experiment backing up, say, just your Documents folder to the internal drive. If all proceeds smoothly that will at least tell you SuperDuper! is working. Then, try backing to the EXTERNAL. If you get an error message again come back and provide some details: MacOS version, version of SuperDuper!, what's the error message say ?
Good luck.

ps: I've been using SuperDuper! for well over a decade -- it's one of my favorite Mac apps -- and there have been instances in the past where new versions led to backup error messages but the ShirtPocket folks provided fixes quickly. However, recent successive updates have all worked well for me.

pps: If you're connecting the external drive to your Mac via cable, make sure the cable isn't the culprit.
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Bogle7
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by Bogle7 »

FYI - SuperDuper! does not work on MacOS Big Sur.
The developer is working on it.
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palanzo
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by palanzo »

Theseus wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:36 pm I ignored Timemachine failures on my MacBook Pro for months (this backs up to my NAS at home). Should have called Apple support. Well, the laptop died - actually the hard disk (SSD) died. Luckily I also have iCloud back up. But I had to get a new hard drive. Apple wanted to charge almost $500. But one of their support guys at the store said I can buy and install it myself. I bought it but the slots didn't fit. Had to buy a $10 adapter.

But after that the laptop is working fine. Actually must faster because this SSD is much faster than my 2015 MacBook Pro. Only downside was I had to reinstall ALL the software as my backups were too old to recover from.

So bottom line is don't ignore the message. Call the Apple support (or take it to the store) as that is usually free and if they think HDD is dying, replace it while you can.
What is free? Replacing the SSD in a 2015 MacBook Pro?
broken
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by broken »

I've used "Carbon Copy Cloner" for my backups (for 10+ years now) and would highly recommend it. It is well supported and updated regularly, it supports Big Sur and is quickly updated when new OS releases come out. You can test drive the software for 30 days to decide if it works well for you.

I am familiar with Super Duper, it is also excellent so I am not knocking that product... just going with my own lengthy personal experience.
Topic Author
tm3
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by tm3 »

rkhusky wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:50 pm It is unlikely that software will cause a hardware problem. Not a guarantee though that the software is correct. Hard drives are cheap, so I would get another one and see what happens.
Good to know. I was concerned that the software might damage a new drive.

I'm using Super Duper 3.3.1.

The error message was

2020-12-22 09:38:14.752912-0500 0xdb Default 0x0 0 0 kernel: (IOStorageFamily) disk2s2: I/O error.
2020-12-22 09:40:05.532702-0500 0xdb Default 0x0 0 0 kernel: (IOStorageFamily) disk2s2: I/O error.

but as noted, with Carbon Copy Cloner complete backup with no problems.

I'm staying away from Big Sur for a while. A few years ago, an iOS upgrade caused me a ton of headaches due to software incompatibility so I'm gun shy. Probably why I'm suspicious here that Super Duper might be the problem, given that it started right after the software update.
Theseus
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by Theseus »

palanzo wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:12 pm
Theseus wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:36 pm I ignored Timemachine failures on my MacBook Pro for months (this backs up to my NAS at home). Should have called Apple support. Well, the laptop died - actually the hard disk (SSD) died. Luckily I also have iCloud back up. But I had to get a new hard drive. Apple wanted to charge almost $500. But one of their support guys at the store said I can buy and install it myself. I bought it but the slots didn't fit. Had to buy a $10 adapter.

But after that the laptop is working fine. Actually must faster because this SSD is much faster than my 2015 MacBook Pro. Only downside was I had to reinstall ALL the software as my backups were too old to recover from.

So bottom line is don't ignore the message. Call the Apple support (or take it to the store) as that is usually free and if they think HDD is dying, replace it while you can.
What is free? Replacing the SSD in a 2015 MacBook Pro?
I wish. Not replacing the hard drive, That was almost $500. But if you called the Apple support, that support is free to my knowledge. I have never had to pay them for a rare occurrence of a support call.
palanzo
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by palanzo »

Theseus wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:56 pm
palanzo wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:12 pm
Theseus wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:36 pm I ignored Timemachine failures on my MacBook Pro for months (this backs up to my NAS at home). Should have called Apple support. Well, the laptop died - actually the hard disk (SSD) died. Luckily I also have iCloud back up. But I had to get a new hard drive. Apple wanted to charge almost $500. But one of their support guys at the store said I can buy and install it myself. I bought it but the slots didn't fit. Had to buy a $10 adapter.

But after that the laptop is working fine. Actually must faster because this SSD is much faster than my 2015 MacBook Pro. Only downside was I had to reinstall ALL the software as my backups were too old to recover from.

So bottom line is don't ignore the message. Call the Apple support (or take it to the store) as that is usually free and if they think HDD is dying, replace it while you can.
What is free? Replacing the SSD in a 2015 MacBook Pro?
I wish. Not replacing the hard drive, That was almost $500. But if you called the Apple support, that support is free to my knowledge. I have never had to pay them for a rare occurrence of a support call.
That's correct. Apple Support is free as it is designed to drive for traffic to the stores where you pay.
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krafty81
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by krafty81 »

My time machine backs up to two external drives that are always plugged in. When I got a new mac, I just plugged in the external time machine and I was good to go!
Theseus
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by Theseus »

palanzo wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:51 pm
Theseus wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:56 pm
palanzo wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:12 pm
Theseus wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:36 pm I ignored Timemachine failures on my MacBook Pro for months (this backs up to my NAS at home). Should have called Apple support. Well, the laptop died - actually the hard disk (SSD) died. Luckily I also have iCloud back up. But I had to get a new hard drive. Apple wanted to charge almost $500. But one of their support guys at the store said I can buy and install it myself. I bought it but the slots didn't fit. Had to buy a $10 adapter.

But after that the laptop is working fine. Actually must faster because this SSD is much faster than my 2015 MacBook Pro. Only downside was I had to reinstall ALL the software as my backups were too old to recover from.

So bottom line is don't ignore the message. Call the Apple support (or take it to the store) as that is usually free and if they think HDD is dying, replace it while you can.
What is free? Replacing the SSD in a 2015 MacBook Pro?
I wish. Not replacing the hard drive, That was almost $500. But if you called the Apple support, that support is free to my knowledge. I have never had to pay them for a rare occurrence of a support call.
That's correct. Apple Support is free as it is designed to drive for traffic to the stores where you pay.
Probably there is a motivation there for them. But support asked me if I wanted to see authorized retailer or the Apple store. And it was the store support guy that told me how easy and cheap it is to do this myself.
chuckb84
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by chuckb84 »

tm3 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:30 pm Hopefully someone knowledgable can comment, or maybe direct me to where I might find an answer.

In addition to Time Machine I periodically make hard drive backups on another external drive, using the software Super Duper. Earlier this week I was prompted by Super Duper to do a software update, which I did. I then did a backup, which resulted in an error message. Super Duper tech support said that the message indicated a bad hard drive. I repaired the drive with Disk Utility, and tried again. Same result.

Curious about the coincidence, I downloaded a trial of another software backup program. Interestingly, when I repair the disk and run the new software, no problem. Super Duper again, same problem. Super Duper tech support assures me that this is coincidental, and that I need to replace the backup hard drive.

My concern is that if Super Duper is somehow inducing the drive failure, it will induce on a new drive also. So I'm unsure of how to proceed.

Any suggestions?
Yes. Download the latest Carbon Copy Cloner and try the same cloning process. I've tried both Super Duper and CCC and I prefer CCC.
Topic Author
tm3
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by tm3 »

chuckb84 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:13 am
tm3 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:30 pm
Curious about the coincidence, I downloaded a trial of another software backup program. Interestingly, when I repair the disk and run the new software, no problem.
Yes. Download the latest Carbon Copy Cloner and try the same cloning process. I've tried both Super Duper and CCC and I prefer CCC.
CCC is the trial software that I downloaded, and it worked fine. It is hard for me to believe that the disk is defective when CCC works despite the (somewhat snippy) admonitions of Super Duper support.

I think I'm going to ditch Super Duper and purchase CCC rather than buy a new external hard drive.
csan
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by csan »

tm3 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:30 pm Hopefully someone knowledgable can comment, or maybe direct me to where I might find an answer.

In addition to Time Machine I periodically make hard drive backups on another external drive, using the software Super Duper. Earlier this week I was prompted by Super Duper to do a software update, which I did. I then did a backup, which resulted in an error message. Super Duper tech support said that the message indicated a bad hard drive. I repaired the drive with Disk Utility, and tried again. Same result.

Curious about the coincidence, I downloaded a trial of another software backup program. Interestingly, when I repair the disk and run the new software, no problem. Super Duper again, same problem. Super Duper tech support assures me that this is coincidental, and that I need to replace the backup hard drive.

My concern is that if Super Duper is somehow inducing the drive failure, it will induce on a new drive also. So I'm unsure of how to proceed.

Any suggestions?
Instead of having two external hard drive back ups, consider this method: https://www.berserkcomputers.co.uk/blog ... e-onedrive

This avoids the issue of using iCloud for backups and you have full control of your encryption key.
rich126
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by rich126 »

The last problem I had with Super Duper was a version issue but I don't have Big Sur.

It would be very difficult for a software app like Super Duper to cause a hardware issue.

Either there is some kind of version issue between your OS and Super Duper or for some reason Super Duper is flagging an issue with the drive. Do you have another drive? Usually with backups I like to rotate between 2 external drives for backups.
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oxothuk
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by oxothuk »

csan wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:03 am
tm3 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:30 pm Hopefully someone knowledgable can comment, or maybe direct me to where I might find an answer.

In addition to Time Machine I periodically make hard drive backups on another external drive, using the software Super Duper. Earlier this week I was prompted by Super Duper to do a software update, which I did. I then did a backup, which resulted in an error message. Super Duper tech support said that the message indicated a bad hard drive. I repaired the drive with Disk Utility, and tried again. Same result.

Curious about the coincidence, I downloaded a trial of another software backup program. Interestingly, when I repair the disk and run the new software, no problem. Super Duper again, same problem. Super Duper tech support assures me that this is coincidental, and that I need to replace the backup hard drive.

My concern is that if Super Duper is somehow inducing the drive failure, it will induce on a new drive also. So I'm unsure of how to proceed.

Any suggestions?
Instead of having two external hard drive back ups, consider this method: https://www.berserkcomputers.co.uk/blog ... e-onedrive

This avoids the issue of using iCloud for backups and you have full control of your encryption key.
Unfortunately, that method requires you to have enough space on your main hard drive to store the virtual image of your cloud-service Time Machine backup. Not very practical IMHO.
csan
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by csan »

oxothuk wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:43 am
csan wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:03 am
tm3 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:30 pm Hopefully someone knowledgable can comment, or maybe direct me to where I might find an answer.

In addition to Time Machine I periodically make hard drive backups on another external drive, using the software Super Duper. Earlier this week I was prompted by Super Duper to do a software update, which I did. I then did a backup, which resulted in an error message. Super Duper tech support said that the message indicated a bad hard drive. I repaired the drive with Disk Utility, and tried again. Same result.

Curious about the coincidence, I downloaded a trial of another software backup program. Interestingly, when I repair the disk and run the new software, no problem. Super Duper again, same problem. Super Duper tech support assures me that this is coincidental, and that I need to replace the backup hard drive.

My concern is that if Super Duper is somehow inducing the drive failure, it will induce on a new drive also. So I'm unsure of how to proceed.

Any suggestions?
Instead of having two external hard drive back ups, consider this method: https://www.berserkcomputers.co.uk/blog ... e-onedrive

This avoids the issue of using iCloud for backups and you have full control of your encryption key.
Unfortunately, that method requires you to have enough space on your main hard drive to store the virtual image of your cloud-service Time Machine backup. Not very practical IMHO.
Yes you do need the space but one could create the image on your external hard drive and drag and drop it into your cloud service via the web app/ensure that the file is “on demand” rather than always on your device.

While I would not use this as the regularly primary backup it is good to have an off-premise backup. I also suggest this over using iCloud (Drive) because I’m quite privacy conscious.
TravelGeek
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by TravelGeek »

External hard disks are cheap. Not worth risking the integrity of a backup to save a few bucks. I would get a new disk and see if that fixes the problem with SuperDuper. If it doesn't (same error), I would assume it's a software issue and let them know. If they aren't responsive, I would switch to CCC (which I use every day).
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BrandonBogle
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by BrandonBogle »

TravelGeek wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:01 pm External hard disks are cheap. Not worth risking the integrity of a backup to save a few bucks. I would get a new disk and see if that fixes the problem with SuperDuper. If it doesn't (same error), I would assume it's a software issue and let them know. If they aren't responsive, I would switch to CCC (which I use every day).
This. And it isn't a bad idea to have more than one external hard drive in rotation for backups. I have Time Machine backing up to an external hard drive connected to my Raspberry Pi, and every few weeks I plug another external hard drive to my MBP and it backs up there via Time Machine. Every 6 months, I take the local external hard drive and put it in my safe deposit box and bring the hard drive there to the house, using it for the local backups for about 6 months. This way, I have a relatively-recent off-site backup.
wunderkind
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by wunderkind »

tm3 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:47 pm
rkhusky wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:50 pm It is unlikely that software will cause a hardware problem. Not a guarantee though that the software is correct. Hard drives are cheap, so I would get another one and see what happens.
Good to know. I was concerned that the software might damage a new drive.

I'm using Super Duper 3.3.1.

The error message was

2020-12-22 09:38:14.752912-0500 0xdb Default 0x0 0 0 kernel: (IOStorageFamily) disk2s2: I/O error.
2020-12-22 09:40:05.532702-0500 0xdb Default 0x0 0 0 kernel: (IOStorageFamily) disk2s2: I/O error.

but as noted, with Carbon Copy Cloner complete backup with no problems.

I'm staying away from Big Sur for a while. A few years ago, an iOS upgrade caused me a ton of headaches due to software incompatibility so I'm gun shy. Probably why I'm suspicious here that Super Duper might be the problem, given that it started right after the software update.
I would believe the super duper rep. That error is coming from MacOS (kernel) when super duper is requesting that MacOS read or write to that disk. Did the rep. verify that disk2s2 is your backup drive and not another drive?

If the backups are important, erring on the side of overspending a bit seems like the correct course of action to me.

FWIW I’m a software engineer
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tm3
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by tm3 »

Thanks everyone for all of the additional comments.
wunderkind wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:14 pm I would believe the super duper rep. That error is coming from MacOS (kernel) when super duper is requesting that MacOS read or write to that disk. Did the rep. verify that disk2s2 is your backup drive and not another drive?

If the backups are important, erring on the side of overspending a bit seems like the correct course of action to me.

FWIW I’m a software engineer
He did not verify that disk2s2 is the backup drive but it was the only external drive that was connected. He did not elaborate, just said I needed to buy a new disk and seemed irritated at my asking why Super Duper was failing when Carbon Copy Cloner was not (which I think is a legit question given the contemporaneous nature of the disk "failure").

I have an additional backup drive stored offsite. Now that I know that Super Duper can't damage the disk I will go get it over the weekend and see if I get the same error. If not, I'll replace the defective drive. If I get the same error, I'll ditch Super Duper for CCC.
wunderkind
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Re: MacOS Backup Software Problem

Post by wunderkind »

tm3 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:38 pm Thanks everyone for all of the additional comments.
wunderkind wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:14 pm I would believe the super duper rep. That error is coming from MacOS (kernel) when super duper is requesting that MacOS read or write to that disk. Did the rep. verify that disk2s2 is your backup drive and not another drive?

If the backups are important, erring on the side of overspending a bit seems like the correct course of action to me.

FWIW I’m a software engineer
He did not verify that disk2s2 is the backup drive but it was the only external drive that was connected. He did not elaborate, just said I needed to buy a new disk and seemed irritated at my asking why Super Duper was failing when Carbon Copy Cloner was not (which I think is a legit question given the contemporaneous nature of the disk "failure").

I have an additional backup drive stored offsite. Now that I know that Super Duper can't damage the disk I will go get it over the weekend and see if I get the same error. If not, I'll replace the defective drive. If I get the same error, I'll ditch Super Duper for CCC.
You can try to figure out which disk it is by running ‘Disk Utility’. On the left will be a list of drives. You can click each and see which one has disk2s2 as its device name, on the right. You may only see ‘disk2’ but that should be enough to figure which drive it is.
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