What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
arsenalfan
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:26 pm

What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by arsenalfan »

2 car garage, plan on buying electric cars in next 5 years. Not sure which ones.

What type of outlets would you install and where?

Getting some house renovations done, and should I just put two 220V outlets on each side wall? Somewhere else? Or wait?

Thanks
diydocwifejd
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:34 am
Location: South

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by diydocwifejd »

Correct two 220v on each side
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin
Normchad
Posts: 5648
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:20 am

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Normchad »

I recommend a NEMA 14-50 on a 50 AMP circuit.

If you buy a Tesla, you can just plug into,it. If you buy something else, the charger you buy will plug into it.

Location depends on your garage..... I put mine in between the two garage doors, so that I could park on either side of the garage, forward or backward, or out in the drive way, and the cord would still reach.

I only need to charge once a week. So if I had multiple cars, I’d still be fine with just a single outlet. More outlets would be more convenient in theory.
Random Poster
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:17 am

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Random Poster »

diydocwifejd wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:03 pm Correct two 220v on each side
Curious why you’d need/want two outlets on each side.

Wouldn’t just one outlet on each side be enough?
Mr.RegPark
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:01 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Mr.RegPark »

Normchad is right. I have a Tesla S with one 220 V Nema on the wall opposite the fuse box. I’m always tripping over the cord as are the dogs. A single centrally located plug is better. I can charge 7-8 % of total capacity per hour, so I rarely have it plugged in more than 6-7 hours every 3-4 days. If you have 2 EVs with long commutes, then it’s a bigger deal, and 2 could be ideal. Make certain your fuse box is up to the task. I had to upgrade from 100 to 150 amps with a whole new box- $4500+
diydocwifejd
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:34 am
Location: South

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by diydocwifejd »

Random Poster wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:19 pm
diydocwifejd wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:03 pm Correct two 220v on each side
Curious why you’d need/want two outlets on each side.

Wouldn’t just one outlet on each side be enough?
I meant one on each side, typo!
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin
Topic Author
arsenalfan
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:26 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by arsenalfan »

diydocwifejd wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:55 pm
Random Poster wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:19 pm
diydocwifejd wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:03 pm Correct two 220v on each side
Curious why you’d need/want two outlets on each side.

Wouldn’t just one outlet on each side be enough?
I meant one on each side, typo!
Yup me too.
Thanks for replies.
Topic Author
arsenalfan
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:26 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by arsenalfan »

Trying to future-proof, and understand this is like the coax cable in each room vs cat-5E and along comes wifi...but that said

NEMA 6-50 50 Amps seems the winner.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... %20on%20it!
Big Dog
Posts: 4608
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Big Dog »

arsenalfan wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:27 pm Trying to future-proof, and understand this is like the coax cable in each room vs cat-5E and along comes wifi...but that said

NEMA 6-50 50 Amps seems the winner.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... %20on%20it!
IMO, that's an old article. (14-50 is the typical recommendation for a Tesla install.) If the work is gonna be done anyway, at a minimum I'd get a 60 amp wire (6 AWG for runs <150') so if you want to add a Tesla Wall charger you can get max charge for a Model 3 today. A Tesla wall charger is not necessary but gives you the option down the road. You can put in a 50 amp circuit on a 60 amp wire. The heavier cable should only be a few dollars more.
BedHead2020
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:04 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by BedHead2020 »

One nit to pick: Voltage in the US hasn’t been 110/220 since the 80’s, when it became 120/240. :happy
Afty
Posts: 2390
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Afty »

+1 to NEMA 14-50. I would not buy a charger (or, more accurately, an EVSE) yet since Teslas use a different connector than other EVs. Also whatever EV you buy may come with a mobile charger that you can plug into a NEMA 14-50 outlet for L2 charging.
User avatar
Callisto
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:24 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Callisto »

Since you don't have specific cars in mind, plus the 5 year out thing, I think you can take a look at the Tesla charging rate guidelines to get a ballpark of how many miles you'd be adding into your car.

Lots of people have already suggested NEMA 14-50, because its popular and will be compatible either natively or with adapters, with whatever car you buy even 5 years from now.

I personally went with a NEMA 14-30, because adding ~160 miles per night(8 hours) to my Model 3 is more than enough for me. For a "large" EV like the Model X, you'd still be comfortably over 100 miles per night. Plus that's assuming only 8 hours of charging at night, which I think is extremely conservative and more than sufficient for the average driver.
brianH
Posts: 666
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:21 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by brianH »

You might need an electrician to do a load calculation if you truly intend on charging 2 EVs at 40A each simultaneously (the max allowable continuous load on a 14-50 '50 amp' circuit.) Depending on what other electrical appliances, heat, AC, etc. you are running, even a 200A service might be cutting it close.

I know Tesla offers chargers that can communicate, so that only one is active at one time. Unless you are driving tons of miles every day, 2 smart chargers that can share the same 50A circuit would probably be sufficient.
BogleZogle___Mogul
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:23 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by BogleZogle___Mogul »

arsenalfan wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:27 pm Trying to future-proof, and understand this is like the coax cable in each room vs cat-5E and along comes wifi...but that said

NEMA 6-50 50 Amps seems the winner.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... %20on%20it!
If you have the electrician pull the 220v wires to the right location, and make sure the rest of the system is sized to whatever typical load you expect (1 or 2 cars charging simultaneously, etc) then I wouldn’t stress about what type of jack you choose, because the hard part is done.

Getting an electrician to come out and change to a new jack or charger or whatever you’ll need 5 years down the line will be easy peasy since all that wiring is already run.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49032
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Valuethinker »

BedHead2020 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:02 pm One nit to pick: Voltage in the US hasn’t been 110/220 since the 80’s, when it became 120/240. :happy
Wow. Thank you. (not being ironic or sarcastic). I did not realise that. I was in North America at the time but did not know that it had taken place.

Do you have a reference for me to understand the transition? Did that shorten the lives of a lot of older electronic devices?

(I struggle to get my head around Japan, where for historic reasons half the country is on 50 Hz and half the country on 60 Hz!).
Valuethinker
Posts: 49032
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Valuethinker »

Callisto wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:17 pm Since you don't have specific cars in mind, plus the 5 year out thing, I think you can take a look at the Tesla charging rate guidelines to get a ballpark of how many miles you'd be adding into your car.

Lots of people have already suggested NEMA 14-50, because its popular and will be compatible either natively or with adapters, with whatever car you buy even 5 years from now.

I personally went with a NEMA 14-30, because adding ~160 miles per night(8 hours) to my Model 3 is more than enough for me. For a "large" EV like the Model X, you'd still be comfortably over 100 miles per night. Plus that's assuming only 8 hours of charging at night, which I think is extremely conservative and more than sufficient for the average driver.
My guess is that the utilities are going to make it extremely expensive/ inconvenient to charge before say 9 pm?

The wholesale price of electricity for most utilities is so high in that 4 pm- 9pm period (when commercial, industrial and residential loads can overlap) that that power has to be very expensive. Also on a very hot or cold summer's eve, the local distribution grid probably can't take a massive additional load from EV charging?
User avatar
Callisto
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:24 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Callisto »

Valuethinker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:27 am
Callisto wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:17 pm Since you don't have specific cars in mind, plus the 5 year out thing, I think you can take a look at the Tesla charging rate guidelines to get a ballpark of how many miles you'd be adding into your car.

Lots of people have already suggested NEMA 14-50, because its popular and will be compatible either natively or with adapters, with whatever car you buy even 5 years from now.

I personally went with a NEMA 14-30, because adding ~160 miles per night(8 hours) to my Model 3 is more than enough for me. For a "large" EV like the Model X, you'd still be comfortably over 100 miles per night. Plus that's assuming only 8 hours of charging at night, which I think is extremely conservative and more than sufficient for the average driver.
My guess is that the utilities are going to make it extremely expensive/ inconvenient to charge before say 9 pm?

The wholesale price of electricity for most utilities is so high in that 4 pm- 9pm period (when commercial, industrial and residential loads can overlap) that that power has to be very expensive. Also on a very hot or cold summer's eve, the local distribution grid probably can't take a massive additional load from EV charging?
It depends on the area, but even in CA, I think charging off peak is seen as a discount, rather than charging on peak as being "extremely expensive". I have not heard of places were charging at peak times is impossible due to electric supply. But of course, depends on the area.

Even if we assume the absolute worse case scenario of 8hr of charging and driving a Model X, you are still adding over 100 miles. If that's truly insufficient, then sure, go for the NEMA 14-50.
User avatar
NewMoneyMustBeSmart
Posts: 729
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:28 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

arsenalfan wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:01 pm What type of outlets would you install and where?
I recently had this done. The first few electricians who head "Tesla" quoted $3k to run 100A/220V single phase circuit within conduit from downstairs panel to garage, install new subpanel, and run 2x100A circuits from there to the outlet.

My friend used an electrician at his business who said the conduit wasn't required by code and wasn't useful, and charged me $1200 (sans outlets, which are $500). When you choose the outlet, make careful consideration for cord length.

The pieces, in pedantic detail are:

1. You need space in your existing panel. In theory AFAIK the Tesla Model 3 pulls the most power at 48A@220V; so you can run 2 at a single 100A breaker to...
2. A new subpanel
3. with 2 x 60A breakers (80% * 60A = 48A)
4. You'll have to choose/pick the type of wire (copper or aluminum, and form factor) and whether it goes into a conduit or not
5. Parts of breakers, panels, wire, conduit
6. The outlet. If you're not sure what you want yet, you can just have them run the subpanel and the ends and tetrminate them in an empty junction box to be used later
7. The Tesla outlet is pretty simpe - see install methods here: https://www.tesla.com/support/installat ... or#install

The electricians Tesla recommends are charging extra, but quality with experience.

I recommend spending a little more up front to get more power. While you can make the argument that it will charge overnight, I feel better knowing my car can charge at 44mph.
-- | Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts - Einstein | *Everything I write here is an unreliable opinion*
User avatar
papito23
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:54 am

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by papito23 »

There are dual-headed EVSE's ("chargers") that can share a single circuit, such as this from Clipper Creek.

I can't think of an application in a household where a dual-headed option on a single circuit wouldn't be sufficient.
A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise. -Aldo Leopold's Golden Rule of Ecology
Dilbydog
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 10:17 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Dilbydog »

With the vehicle selection a bit out, why not have the builder pipe in a conduit run to each wall and install a 4 or 6 gang box? Once you’re ready for the vehicle have an electrician pull the appropriate circuit and install a compatible receptacle based on the technology at the time of your vehicle purchase?
Topic Author
arsenalfan
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:26 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by arsenalfan »

Thanks all.

Good options.

I am friends with the GC, and just figure while the electrician is here, drop the line. Have plenty of room in 240V Breaker box. 240 lol.

I'll prob still just do that NEMA outlet.
BedHead2020
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:04 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by BedHead2020 »

Valuethinker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:24 am
BedHead2020 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:02 pm One nit to pick: Voltage in the US hasn’t been 110/220 since the 80’s, when it became 120/240. :happy
Wow. Thank you. (not being ironic or sarcastic). I did not realise that. I was in North America at the time but did not know that it had taken place.

Do you have a reference for me to understand the transition? Did that shorten the lives of a lot of older electronic devices?

(I struggle to get my head around Japan, where for historic reasons half the country is on 50 Hz and half the country on 60 Hz!).

The dates are readily available online but, from memory, we were 110/220 initially in the post -Edison days, then 115/230 in the 1930’s, then in the 1980’s the national electric code standardized to 120/240.
crefwatch
Posts: 2500
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by crefwatch »

You may wish to make sure the install is suitable (i.e. box size/number of wires permitted) for a wired-in charger in the future. That’s only because some utility time-of-day and other discounts/incentives require a wired-in charger with WiFi.
exoilman
Posts: 881
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:38 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by exoilman »

reference
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17158
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:33 am . . .
1. You need space in your existing panel. In theory AFAIK the Tesla Model 3 pulls the most power at 48A@220V; so you can run 2 at a single 100A breaker to...
My early model X can charge at 72A@240V, but when I have the time, I set it to charge at 10A. But, it’s an outlier, as I purchased with what iirc they called a “double charger.”
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

What's that? . . . Oh, you mean the holes!
Topic Author
arsenalfan
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:26 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by arsenalfan »

Ok electrician installing 3 NEMA 60 240V outlets, one in each garage car slot (decided to do third garage).

$1200 for everything seems a good price.
lazydavid
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by lazydavid »

arsenalfan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 am Ok electrician installing 3 NEMA 60 240V outlets, one in each garage car slot (decided to do third garage).

$1200 for everything seems a good price.
Yes, very good price.
mervinj7
Posts: 2496
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by mervinj7 »

arsenalfan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 am Ok electrician installing 3 NEMA 60 240V outlets, one in each garage car slot (decided to do third garage).

$1200 for everything seems a good price.
Great price. But can your panel handle 3 x 50A breakers?
Edit: I'm worried about the panel load calc here. Not just the space needed for three dual pole 50A breakers. I'm assuming the 60A was a typo.
Last edited by mervinj7 on Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
neilpilot
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:46 pm
Location: Memphis area

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by neilpilot »

mervinj7 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:37 am
arsenalfan wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 am Ok electrician installing 3 NEMA 60 240V outlets, one in each garage car slot (decided to do third garage).

$1200 for everything seems a good price.
Great price. But can your panel handle 3 x 50A breakers?
If you mean 3 60amp 240v circuits, isn't that 6 x 50amp breakers?

PS - I'm on the verge of buying my first BEV, a VW ID.4. Since my breaker box is very far away, I'm planning a branch off of my electric cloth dryer's 30amp circuit. The dryer only runs about 3 hours a week, never overnight, and the BEV will likely only charge overnight 1-2 times weekly.

The laundry room shares a wall with the garage. Will install a 3 position 30amp Leviton toggle switch, $50 on Amazon, which will normally be in the "Dryer" position. Will wire to a new NEMA14-30 outlet in garage. Material cost is switch + outlet + 5' wire + misc, under $120. I may use an electrician at a cost of $125, or just do this easy job myself. Hardest part of the job is patching a small area of drywall after installation.
Last edited by neilpilot on Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
lazydavid
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by lazydavid »

neilpilot wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:50 am
mervinj7 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:37 am Great price. But can your panel handle 3 x 50A breakers?
If you mean 3 60amp 240v circuits, isn't that 6 x 50amp breakers?
No, it's 3 x 50A double-pole breakers. Takes up the same amount of space in the box as six standard breakers, but you don't use a separate breaker for each leg of the circuit.
Trism
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:34 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Trism »

Unless you're planning to do other electrical work in the garage now, I see no compelling reason to spend money on outlets that you might need at some undetermined point in the next five years.
RichK
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:24 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by RichK »

In addition to settling on the circuit capability, you should also investigate any Federal, State, and power company incentives. Some of these might be dependent on installation of a charger and some on the purchase/lease of an EV. That might help you determine what to do when.

You also might want to investigate Time-of-Day metering for cheaper overnight and weekend rates and determine what’s required. In my case, I have a separate meter for the charger circuit.
squirm
Posts: 4239
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:53 am

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by squirm »

arsenalfan wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:01 pm 2 car garage, plan on buying electric cars in next 5 years. Not sure which ones.

What type of outlets would you install and where?

Getting some house renovations done, and should I just put two 220V outlets on each side wall? Somewhere else? Or wait?

Thanks
Yes, do 220v each side with #6. Make sure your panel can handle the loads.
OldBallCoach
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:22 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by OldBallCoach »

I had our elctrician add a new plug in the garage for a future Tesla purchase and he added a 240V 50A stove plug. He said this would be the easiet and cheapest in the long term? We have plnety of service so adding another box wasnt an issue....
NYC_Guy
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:23 pm
Location: New York

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by NYC_Guy »

I put in dedicated 100 amp 240v lines to a junction box at each garage bay (we have 3). The wall chargers are hard wired to junction boxes. I have one Tesla wall charger and 2 juicebox wall chargers that can go to 80 amps continuously. Basically I just future proofed because the cost is mostly the labor - not the equipment. I also have a separate 400 amp drop just for the garage on a separate time of use meter. ymmv
furwut
Posts: 2123
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by furwut »

Valuethinker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:24 am Did that shorten the lives of a lot of older electronic devices?

(I struggle to get my head around Japan, where for historic reasons half the country is on 50 Hz and half the country on 60 Hz!).
Just yesterday I was watching the YT channel ‘Sailing SV Delos’ and the guy, who was an electrical engineer, was doing some retrofit work on the boat. He mentioned plugging into shore power and having to convert the voltage but, nonetheless, the 60 Hz power was not great for the 50 Hz devices.
dbr
Posts: 46181
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:50 am

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by dbr »

Overhead outlets might be an option.

I have one in my workshop which works well.
neilpilot
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:46 pm
Location: Memphis area

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by neilpilot »

dbr wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:18 am Overhead outlets might be an option.

I have one in my workshop which works well.
The outlet I'm planning is on the far wall between the 2 car bays. The charger line will be directed up the wall, overhead and then drop down to the rear of either car. This will allow pedestrian traffic to move behind the parked BEV.
crefwatch
Posts: 2500
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:07 pm
Location: New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by crefwatch »

Normal receptacle is NEMA 14-50 for EVSE with male plug. Utility incentives MAY require WiFi and/or hard-wired install, so try to have the boxes suitable for that.
User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 8525
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Iowa

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by lthenderson »

For something high tech like electric charged vehicles, I would wait until I actually was going to purchase one before doing anything to an existing garage structure. Technology, charging methods and charging locations are likely to change many times in the next five years.
lazydavid
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by lazydavid »

lthenderson wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:37 am For something high tech like electric charged vehicles, I would wait until I actually was going to purchase one before doing anything to an existing garage structure. Technology, charging methods and charging locations are likely to change many times in the next five years.
It sounds like this is during construction. It will be dramatically cheaper to do it now, rather than later, even if changes are ultimately needed.
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 18502
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

furwut wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:08 am
Valuethinker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:24 am Did that shorten the lives of a lot of older electronic devices?

(I struggle to get my head around Japan, where for historic reasons half the country is on 50 Hz and half the country on 60 Hz!).
Just yesterday I was watching the YT channel ‘Sailing SV Delos’ and the guy, who was an electrical engineer, was doing some retrofit work on the boat. He mentioned plugging into shore power and having to convert the voltage but, nonetheless, the 60 Hz power was not great for the 50 Hz devices.
I'd be interested in what devices have a problem with this.

I've done AC/DC power supply designs for over 30 years and even back in the 80's, we designed to accept 85V to 132V (120V countries) at 47 to 63 Hz.

Perhaps some motors might have issues, but I can't really think why.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
furwut
Posts: 2123
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by furwut »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:08 am
furwut wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:08 am
Valuethinker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:24 am Did that shorten the lives of a lot of older electronic devices?

(I struggle to get my head around Japan, where for historic reasons half the country is on 50 Hz and half the country on 60 Hz!).
Just yesterday I was watching the YT channel ‘Sailing SV Delos’ and the guy, who was an electrical engineer, was doing some retrofit work on the boat. He mentioned plugging into shore power and having to convert the voltage but, nonetheless, the 60 Hz power was not great for the 50 Hz devices.
I'd be interested in what devices have a problem with this.

I've done AC/DC power supply designs for over 30 years and even back in the 80's, we designed to accept 85V to 132V (120V countries) at 47 to 63 Hz.

Perhaps some motors might have issues, but I can't really think why.
Beats me :idea:
But his explanation begins at the 6:30 mark. More a caution that some things may not work as expected.
https://youtu.be/w0fiS8Dg_bA
Swivelguy
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:37 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by Swivelguy »

I'd probably not have bothered with the outlets, just had them run wire to junction boxes. It's trivial to stick an outlet on it later, but it probably makes more sense (cleaner, fewer failure points) to just hardwire the charger when you get it.
neilpilot
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:46 pm
Location: Memphis area

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by neilpilot »

Swivelguy wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:59 am I'd probably not have bothered with the outlets, just had them run wire to junction boxes. It's trivial to stick an outlet on it later, but it probably makes more sense (cleaner, fewer failure points) to just hardwire the charger when you get it.
For my needs, I decided a plug in charger made more sense than hard wired. It will likely remain plugged in full time. However, in the unlikely chance that I decide to travel I can bring the charge along for Level 2 charging if my destination offer's a 240v socket. My NEMA14-30 charger can easily be fitted with a NEMA14-50 converter (a $50 accessory) if necessary.

Also makes future replacement easier should my EVSE fail.
squirm
Posts: 4239
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:53 am

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by squirm »

lazydavid wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:51 am
lthenderson wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:37 am For something high tech like electric charged vehicles, I would wait until I actually was going to purchase one before doing anything to an existing garage structure. Technology, charging methods and charging locations are likely to change many times in the next five years.
It sounds like this is during construction. It will be dramatically cheaper to do it now, rather than later, even if changes are ultimately needed.
My thoughts too, and I'm not sure what exactly would change charging wise. 208-240v 32A charging is going to be around for a very long time.
WhyNotUs
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:38 am

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by WhyNotUs »

I used to have a 30A line for my Leaf with a really cool retrofit of my original charge cable.
When we bought the new Leaf with larger battery I got a Chargepoint Home Flex for free from my utility (install my cost)
In the next couple of years the utility plans to make it so that my car can serve as a backup power for our all-electric house and that will require a different box. Assuming that the cost is reasonable, I think that will be a good method of dealing with the rare power outages. I am also open to the grid using our car/s to manage peak demand as long as there is juice there in the morning when we leave for work.

The future will be bidirectional.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
02nz
Posts: 10508
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:17 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by 02nz »

lthenderson wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:37 am For something high tech like electric charged vehicles, I would wait until I actually was going to purchase one before doing anything to an existing garage structure. Technology, charging methods and charging locations are likely to change many times in the next five years.
I hear this kind of talk a lot about EVs, and while it's true that the EV landscape is changing quickly in terms of models available and rollout of public charging infrastructure, as far as the actual technology is concerned, little to nothing is changing. The underlying battery technology and charging equipment are very mature. The "charger" (more properly EV supply equipment or EVSE) isn't even doing the charging - the actual charger is onboard the car, the EVSE is really just a conduit. Tesla's proprietary connector aside (and there's an adapter available for that), EVSEs for home use will look the same 5-10 years from now as they do now.
TravelGeek
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: What Outlets in preparation for electric cars?

Post by TravelGeek »

neilpilot wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:35 am
Swivelguy wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:59 am I'd probably not have bothered with the outlets, just had them run wire to junction boxes. It's trivial to stick an outlet on it later, but it probably makes more sense (cleaner, fewer failure points) to just hardwire the charger when you get it.
For my needs, I decided a plug in charger made more sense than hard wired. It will likely remain plugged in full time. However, in the unlikely chance that I decide to travel I can bring the charge along for Level 2 charging if my destination offer's a 240v socket. My NEMA14-30 charger can easily be fitted with a NEMA14-50 converter (a $50 accessory) if necessary.

Also makes future replacement easier should my EVSE fail.
+1

I had originally requested a 240V line into the garage in anticipation of a future EV purchase when the home was built. It ended up just being a bunch of wires behind a wall plate in a junction box. But it was easy enough for an electrician to hook up a 14-50 outlet when we actually bought an EV. We use the “mobile” EVSE that was included with our LEAF; it comes with a 14-50 plug. In nearly three years we have actually never unplugged it, but we do have the option to take it with us.

When we get our next EV (a Tesla), we will use the “mobile connector” that comes with the vehicle and a $35 NEMA 14-50 adapter. It will just plug in.

The biggest hassle was to find an electrician who was interested in coming by and putting the outlet in place of the wall plate. At the time, most electricians were busy doing bigger jobs - new home construction - and not interested in a quick 30 min task (I paid for the full hour, of course). So I would not recommend going with the wires behind a face plate approach for future use. Just get a 14-50 outlet installed. It’s not going to cost much more and I doubt that it will be obsolete any time soon.
Post Reply