Killed grass with too much fertilizer

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SwampDonkey
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Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by SwampDonkey »

We live in the SE and have St Augustine grass in our yard.

I've been applying Scotts "weed'n'feed" 2-3x/year over the past couple of years (how long we've owned the home). That, combined with manually pulling weeds when they appear has worked well for us and our yard has gone from questionable looking to rather nice.

Unfortunately, I doubled up on my fall application and used two new types of fertilizer/weed-killer thinking "twice the strength = less weeds for me to pull." As the title suggests, I'm a knucklehead and the double application looks to have killed about 1/2 my grass (lots of brown/dead patches now) :oops: :oops: :oops:

I know there's no way to revive the dead patches so I'll probably be buying a pallet of sod and replacing 300-400 sq ft of our yard.

My question is, should I apply anything to the soil prior to laying the new sod? I'd hate to do all of the prep work and then lay the new sod only to have it die as well. Second question, since we are in the SE and I believe St Augustine goes dormant in the winter, is it still okay to do this over the next 3-4 weeks?

Any other tips I should be aware of?
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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SwampDonkey
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by SwampDonkey »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
When we lived rural, that's exactly what we did. Loved it.
We now live in a HOA neighborhood.
AND we're selling our home in the next 6-8 months :oops:
Mitchell777
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Mitchell777 »

I can't speak for sod but for planting grass seed I used lawn soil (I think that was the term on the bag) over the dirt and had much better luck that I usually have planting small areas with new grass seed.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by HomeStretch »

Do you have a couple months to wait or are you required to correct this ASAP if it’s in the front yard in a HOA neighborhood?

Are you sure it’s dead rather than dormant? It’s going to take awhile for the chemicals to leach out of soil. Unless you add a lot of new top soil to the affected areas, grass seed won’t be an option for at least 6 weeks. No idea if sod will grow a healthy root system during that period either.
Last edited by HomeStretch on Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tomd37
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by tomd37 »

Mitchell777 - May I ask where you purchased "lawn soil" as that is exactly what I need for the use you indicated.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by whodidntante »

Grass seed works fine if you're willing to prep it before and water it after.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by mkc »

SwampDonkey wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:08 am We live in the SE and have St Augustine grass in our yard.

I've been applying Scotts "weed'n'feed" 2-3x/year over the past couple of years (how long we've owned the home). That, combined with manually pulling weeds when they appear has worked well for us and our yard has gone from questionable looking to rather nice.

Unfortunately, I doubled up on my fall application and used two new types of fertilizer/weed-killer thinking "twice the strength = less weeds for me to pull." As the title suggests, I'm a knucklehead and the double application looks to have killed about 1/2 my grass (lots of brown/dead patches now) :oops: :oops: :oops:
Were the new products for St Augustine? If not, that could be the problem. It could also be a fungal disease called "Brown Patch"

Some good info on St Augustine here https://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheet/st-a ... -calendar/

With your HOA, you may not be permitted to use a grass seed. Also, if pre-emergent was part of the recent fall application, it's going to block the germination of seed anyway.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Big Dog »

it's winter and St. Augustine starts to slow its growth in the winter. And even goes dormant when temps drop too much. It's a spreading grass so it will come back eventually.

Soak it every day for a week and see if it starts to come back. Or, just wait until spring, fertilize without a weed killer, and let it grow back itself.

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/bring-sai ... 86129.html


btw: don't feel too bad, as I've done the same with Weed-and-Feed with another grass that has runners. (Spreading grasses are particularly sensitive to weed-and-feed fertilizer so too much can be harmful as you have now experienced.)
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SwampDonkey
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by SwampDonkey »

HomeStretch wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:39 am Do you have a couple months to wait or are you required to correct this ASAP if it’s in the front yard in a HOA neighborhood?

Are you sure it’s dead rather than dormant? It’s going to take awhile for the chemicals to leach out of soil. Unless you add a lot of bee top soil to the affected areas, grass seed won’t be an option for at least 6 weeks. No idea if sod will grow a healthy root system during that period either.
It's not ideal but I can wait till the spring; I'm on the HOA and they'll understand the situation.

100% certain it's dead as the yard is splotchy (some areas still living, others completely dead). Any my neighbors yard is still perfectly green and we have the same grass.

whodidntante wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:43 am Grass seed works fine if you're willing to prep it before and water it after.
St. Augustine is different than most grasses - it can not be grown from seed. The only way to "grow" new St. Augustine is by laying sod.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by livesoft »

Wait a few months before buying sod and installing. If you are selling the home, then perhaps re-sod a mere 2 weeks before you put the home on the market. You can call sod companies and ask them when they will have sod available. It is pretty trivial to re-sod yourself, especially if you have teenagers.

I have St Augustine and it is cold enough that none of the neighbors have any really green St Augustine. Most of it is showing a bit of brown from the die off from the summer heat.

Also St Augustine grows when overnight temps stay above 60 deg F.
Last edited by livesoft on Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Big Dog »

SwampDonkey wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:08 am
HomeStretch wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:39 am Do you have a couple months to wait or are you required to correct this ASAP if it’s in the front yard in a HOA neighborhood?

Are you sure it’s dead rather than dormant? It’s going to take awhile for the chemicals to leach out of soil. Unless you add a lot of bee top soil to the affected areas, grass seed won’t be an option for at least 6 weeks. No idea if sod will grow a healthy root system during that period either.
It's not ideal but I can wait till the spring; I'm on the HOA and they'll understand the situation.

100% certain it's dead as the yard is splotchy (some areas still living, others completely dead). Any my neighbors yard is still perfectly green and we have the same grass.

whodidntante wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:43 am Grass seed works fine if you're willing to prep it before and water it after.
St. Augustine is different than most grasses - it can not be grown from seed. The only way to "grow" new St. Augustine is by laying sod.
Never used this product, but might work.

https://www.scotts.com/en-us/products/g ... tine-lawns
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by livesoft »

Big Dog wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:14 amNever used this product, but might work.

https://www.scotts.com/en-us/products/g ... tine-lawns
That reminded me of this: https://www.wish.com/product/5e6b7dbaaa ... modal=true

But the grass product as described is not going to work unless the nearby grass is extending stolons and runners which is unlikely at this time of year.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Big Dog »

livesoft wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:37 am
Big Dog wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:14 amNever used this product, but might work.

https://www.scotts.com/en-us/products/g ... tine-lawns
That reminded me of this: https://www.wish.com/product/5e6b7dbaaa ... modal=true

But the grass product as described is not going to work unless the nearby grass is extending stolons and runners which is unlikely at this time of year.
Probably right, but since the Op is on HoA, at least patching the lawn gives the appearance that he's trying to fix it, even if growth won't happen until early spring. (But that patch is not cheap.)
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by unclescrooge »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
Can you provide more info on what you did, it would do, please?

I tried to go this route, but my wife doesn't like what I did (it looks terrible so I don't blame her) and she keeps frequently brings up a replacement lawn, which I'm dead against.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by TomatoTomahto »

unclescrooge wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:50 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
Can you provide more info on what you did, it would do, please?
I tried to go this route, but my wife doesn't like what I did (it looks terrible so I don't blame her) and she keeps frequently brings up a replacement lawn, which I'm dead against.
There are all sorts of seed that we can throw down, but lazy person that I am, I just stopped fertilizing and watering (Darwin rules!) and told my landscaper to mow less often and higher. Our renovation contractor had put down plywood to enable load carrying across the property, and the destruction caused by the installation of a new septic (don’t get me started) had also affected the “lawn,” so mostly I decided to let nature take its course. There’s a section that is inside the dog fence perimeter, so we didn’t want it to become tick heaven. Beyond that perimeter, my only request of the landscaper was that it not grow higher than the solar panels.

It does look kind of mangy right now. Next year, perhaps I will read some of the books and do a proper wildflower meadow. We are lucky to be rural with no HOA. We have, if I say so myself, magnificent gardens and plantings which distract the eye. We have more butterflies, birds, bats, snakes (only garter), frogs, etc. than ever before and my wife is so enthralled by her koi pond that she doesn’t mind the ex-lawn too much. Distract your wife with other things to look at. Change the subject. Appeal to the human desire to leave the world a better place than you found it.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by alpenglow »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
I wish I could go meadow. My neighbors would kill me and there might be some laws about it too. I think at some point in history people will look back on these mono-culture lawns as ridiculous. At least I was able to get away with a nice meadow in Vermont.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Nicolas »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
+1. We didn’t do meadow, our neighbors would visit us with torches and pitchforks, but I wouldn’t think of applying any weed killer, it kills the fireflies, which we love to watch on summer evenings. I actually like dandelions, and we encourage milkweed, the monarchs love them. We also refuse to use any insecticides.
Last edited by Nicolas on Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by abuss368 »

We have been using the new Scott’s All In One. Applied twice a year. This was a welcomed change from buying, storing, and managing the four individual steps.

Overall this has worked well and you may want to consider.

I have experienced too much duped in any area of any product can result in dead grass.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by dru808 »

Can’t you just water it, it should slowly come back. I’ve accidentally sprayed weed killer on spots of my sea shore lawn, keep watering it and it’s back in a few months.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by abuss368 »

I want the lawn to look like PGA course greens!
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by livesoft »

dru808 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:06 pm Can’t you just water it, it should slowly come back. I’ve accidentally sprayed weed killer on spots of my sea shore lawn, keep watering it and it’s back in a few months.
Interesting, but it probably would have "come back" after a few months without watering. I think the OP was looking for a semi-instant solution (pun intended).
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by livesoft »

abuss368 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:07 pm I want the lawn to look like PGA course greens!
One would need something other than St Augustine grass then ... and the first step would be to kill off the St Augustine.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by abuss368 »

livesoft wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:09 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:07 pm I want the lawn to look like PGA course greens!
One would need something other than St Augustine grass then ... and the first step would be to kill off the St Augustine.
Astroturf perhaps!
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Mitchell777 »

tomd37 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:40 am Mitchell777 - May I ask where you purchased "lawn soil" as that is exactly what I need for the use you indicated.
Bought at Lowes as I recall. It's a Scotts product
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by JBTX »

SwampDonkey wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:08 am We live in the SE and have St Augustine grass in our yard.

I've been applying Scotts "weed'n'feed" 2-3x/year over the past couple of years (how long we've owned the home). That, combined with manually pulling weeds when they appear has worked well for us and our yard has gone from questionable looking to rather nice.

Unfortunately, I doubled up on my fall application and used two new types of fertilizer/weed-killer thinking "twice the strength = less weeds for me to pull." As the title suggests, I'm a knucklehead and the double application looks to have killed about 1/2 my grass (lots of brown/dead patches now) :oops: :oops: :oops:

I know there's no way to revive the dead patches so I'll probably be buying a pallet of sod and replacing 300-400 sq ft of our yard.

My question is, should I apply anything to the soil prior to laying the new sod? I'd hate to do all of the prep work and then lay the new sod only to have it die as well. Second question, since we are in the SE and I believe St Augustine goes dormant in the winter, is it still okay to do this over the next 3-4 weeks?

Any other tips I should be aware of?
St Augustine is sensitive and fragile to such things.

I grew up in FL and live it TX. My mom actually gave me some pointers with St Augustine and now in TX most of my lawn is st Augustine.

Google YouTube and "lawn care nut". He is goofy but he does it right. In one video he shows the installation of an entire new lawn over previous one. Also has a whole series of annual care.

https://youtu.be/BNFiuJLq8JM

What I have found, from my mom (and lawn care nut) is if you have a couple of years, putting in st. Augustine plugs will give you the most robust lawn. 2/3 of my lawn started with plugs. But you have to be patient.

He recommends milorganite as fertilizer. Less likely to overdo it. I havent tried it yet but I probably should.

As to weed killers, yes st Augustine is sensitive. I have been chasing chamber bitter in my front yard. Ended up killing a spot with herbicide which supposedly was OK for st Augustine. Now am using delicate applications of pre emergent only, and pulling the weeds.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by ad2007 »

abuss368 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:07 pm I want the lawn to look like PGA course greens!
Bermuda, but will need way more water than St Aug
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by abuss368 »

ad2007 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:47 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:07 pm I want the lawn to look like PGA course greens!
Bermuda, but will need way more water than St Aug
That is so true. A good lawn requires so much in the form of treatments, water, and time!
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by JBTX »

ad2007 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:47 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:07 pm I want the lawn to look like PGA course greens!
Bermuda, but will need way more water than St Aug
I have both, and am not really sure that is true. Bermuda if watered infrequently and with long enough applications will develop deep roots, and can survive a drought. St Augustine without water will die. You end up over watering st Augustine due to dry spots.

I find in TX with extreme heat and low rain summers sometimes you can't go more than 2 days with St Augustine without water and it becoming visibly distressed.

I've been going more towards st Augustine due to shade tolerance as Trees grow and fill out.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Barkingsparrow »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
I'm intrigued by this - but is it practical in a suburban neighborhood for both the front/back yards? I've stopped fertilizing / spraying my yard three years ago and I'm getting crabgrass / dandelions, etc; but nothing terrible. Not like I'm planning to sell my house anytime soon.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Barkingsparrow wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:26 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
I'm intrigued by this - but is it practical in a suburban neighborhood for both the front/back yards? I've stopped fertilizing / spraying my yard three years ago and I'm getting crabgrass / dandelions, etc; but nothing terrible. Not like I'm planning to sell my house anytime soon.
If you’re not subject to the tyranny of a HOA, it’s fine. Yes, you will get clover (welcomed), dandelions, and crabgrass (not so welcomed), but it’s a matter of reframing what your goal is.

Plant a lovely garden to draw your eyes.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by allenneal99 »

KILL, TILL, FILL And SOD

https://ktrh.iheart.com/content/2019-02 ... l-and-sod/

You've already done the Kill part. If by SE you mean Texas or thereabouts then you should be able to lay the St. Augustine in November through December. After Tilling, the important piece will be Filling in with some good topsoil. You should then be good to go.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by JBTX »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:31 pm
Barkingsparrow wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:26 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
I'm intrigued by this - but is it practical in a suburban neighborhood for both the front/back yards? I've stopped fertilizing / spraying my yard three years ago and I'm getting crabgrass / dandelions, etc; but nothing terrible. Not like I'm planning to sell my house anytime soon.
If you’re not subject to the tyranny of a HOA, it’s fine. Yes, you will get clover (welcomed), dandelions, and crabgrass (not so welcomed), but it’s a matter of reframing what your goal is.

Plant a lovely garden to draw your eyes.
The problem in a place like TX once you let it go, it's hard to recover, if you ever do want to sell. And what you save in chemicals is likely offset by neighbors who require more herbicides because of those who let it go. Plus some types of weeds are permanent and not seasonal.

The guy across the street spent a ton leveling his lawn, has a weekly lawn service, and a fertilizing company, but must not use herbicides because it is infested. I'm constantly fighting the same types of weeds that likely blow over from his yard. Mostly in my bermuda patch. The St Augustine tends to be more weed resistant.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by jm1495 »

With using a weed and feed product you've created a barrier that will inhibit any new seed from germinating for a couple of months. Your best bet would be to use something like this if the HOA is a pain. https://www.lowes.com/pd/LawnLift-Speci ... /999993648

In the mean time, check out aroundtheyard.com, Ryan Knorr on youtube, https://www.howtowithdoc.com, and your local land grant university for resources on turf management/best practices.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Swimmer »

There’s St. Augustine and there’s St. Augustine Floratam. Read the fine print on the fertilizer package. Using fertilizer for St. Augustine on S.A. Floratam will kill it. I suspect this is what happened. So, it’s not the quantity you used. It’s the chemical.

True—You can’t seed it but must use sod to replace St. Augustine.

I’m a master gardener in FL. We do not recommend any Weed N Feed product here. Be careful in a big box store (especially). It’s essential to read the label.

I suggest you call your county extension agent for advice as to when it’s safe it install new sod. Good luck.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by tibbitts »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:31 pm
Barkingsparrow wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:26 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
I'm intrigued by this - but is it practical in a suburban neighborhood for both the front/back yards? I've stopped fertilizing / spraying my yard three years ago and I'm getting crabgrass / dandelions, etc; but nothing terrible. Not like I'm planning to sell my house anytime soon.
If you’re not subject to the tyranny of a HOA, it’s fine. Yes, you will get clover (welcomed), dandelions, and crabgrass (not so welcomed), but it’s a matter of reframing what your goal is.

Plant a lovely garden to draw your eyes.
The problem is that in most situations, even without an HOA, with a lack of chemicals, your lawn will stand out as the worst-looking in the neighborhood. Neighbors will feel, maybe with some justification, that your weeks will invade their fertilized and manicured lawns, especially if there is no physical barrier. While many Bogleheads will say they don't care, that detract from the neighborhood appearance somewhat, as do some other things people might do, like parking on the lawn, leaving junk cars (yes, junk even by Boglehead standards) and/or appliances in front of the house, etc.

So with my back lawn surrounded by a privacy fence I just make some trivial effort on my own to keep weeds in check, but pay a lawn service to cover the front in chemicals, bringing my lawn up to a little better than average for the neighborhood. I tried d-i-y for years and while I was successful for a while, eventually weeds defeated my efforts. I don't have an active HOA, but there is still some implied standard that most people don't want to drop too far below.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Barkingsparrow »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:30 am The problem is that in most situations, even without an HOA, with a lack of chemicals, your lawn will stand out as the worst-looking in the neighborhood. Neighbors will feel, maybe with some justification, that your weeks will invade their fertilized and manicured lawns, especially if there is no physical barrier. While many Bogleheads will say they don't care, that detract from the neighborhood appearance somewhat, as do some other things people might do, like parking on the lawn, leaving junk cars (yes, junk even by Boglehead standards) and/or appliances in front of the house, etc.

So with my back lawn surrounded by a privacy fence I just make some trivial effort on my own to keep weeds in check, but pay a lawn service to cover the front in chemicals, bringing my lawn up to a little better than average for the neighborhood. I tried d-i-y for years and while I was successful for a while, eventually weeds defeated my efforts. I don't have an active HOA, but there is still some implied standard that most people don't want to drop too far below.
That is a fair point. That said, I have a few neighbors doing the same as I, and with worse yards actually. And I'm not convinced these chemicals are innocuous.

One thing that we are doing are raised beds in the backyard and planting herbs amid a flower bed in the front yard that runs the length of the front porch. I really am not going to take the chance of chemicals leeching into our herbs and veggies.
DurangoWino
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by DurangoWino »

Apologize ahead of time but I did not read thru all the posts. My son recently moved into a new house in the Spring and had to deal with weeds from his new turf. County Extension agents warn against weed and feeds as some of them will kill shrubs, trees and other plants, plus they are not good for the environment. What our local nursery suggested was to apply a weed and feed in the Spring that does not have the chemicals in it that kill shrubs and trees. Then in the Fall apply a pre-emergent at least twice - for Texas once in early Nov and then again in January. If you still have weeds come up in the Spring repeat the full process. At some point you will get ahead of the weeds and have a great lawn. They also suggested a Fall application of a winterizer fertilizer to give your lawn some nutrients after long growing season.

Scott’s W&F has a large percentage of nitrogen that if used during periods of high heat will kill your lawn. I would try and find a fertilizer that is like a 10/10/10 or 15/15/15 for May/June if you need to green up your lawn. Some of the Scott’s have 30 or higher for the first number (nitrogen).

My suggestion is to wait until the Spring to see if your lawn has any signs of growth. If it doesn’t then hire someone to re-sod it.
egrets
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by egrets »

Nicolas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:05 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 am Here’s my tip, but probably not one you want. Just keep it in the back of your mind; perhaps one day you’ll think about it again. Get over the lawn thing. Go meadow. Pollinators and animals will thank you.
+1. We didn’t do meadow, our neighbors would visit us with torches and pitchforks, but I wouldn’t think of applying any weed killer, it kills the fireflies, which we love to watch on summer evenings. I actually like dandelions, and we encourage milkweed, the monarchs love them. We also refuse to use any insecticides.
My small yard got ripped up for septic installation, so I had to buy dandelion seeds :-) I am hoping the remaining violets that used to populate the lawn will spread out. I also overseeded with white clover, but I do that every year anyway.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by TomatoTomahto »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:30 am The problem is that in most situations, even without an HOA, with a lack of chemicals, your lawn will stand out as the worst-looking in the neighborhood. Neighbors will feel, maybe with some justification, that your weeks will invade their fertilized and manicured lawns, especially if there is no physical barrier. While many Bogleheads will say they don't care, that detract from the neighborhood appearance somewhat, as do some other things people might do, like parking on the lawn, leaving junk cars (yes, junk even by Boglehead standards) and/or appliances in front of the house, etc.
We get our water from wells (not aquifer, but basically groundwater). Since the neighbors are uphill from us, I wish they’d stop putting crap on their lawns and risking our drinking water. For the most part, the ground filters the crap out, but we have our water tested at least annually.

We are thankful to be in a rural setting. Nobody expresses a negative thought about our lack of a proper lawn, and if they did, I would have no patience with their views.

I wonder how many people gaze out at their perfect lawns while they bemoan Bee Colony Collapse.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Sheepdog
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Sheepdog »

When you apply too much fertilizer or spill some by accident, the salt buildup can cause fertilizer burn. So, you’ll see brown, yellow or streaked grass. This happens more often with quick-release fertilizers, which flood lawns with nutrients all at once.

Healthy grass can bounce back with the right care. You’ll want to make sure the grass is still alive before attempting to revive it. Usually, yellow and brown streaks can recover. But crunchy, brown grass could mean you need to consider replanting.

Burned lawns will need a generous amount of water to get back to green. It’s important to water your lawn as soon as you spot any brown or yellow patches to prevent further damage. Slowly soak the affected areas every day for about a week to fully flush out the salt. And, keep in mind the best time to water is in the morning!

Check back in on your lawn in a few weeks. The affected areas should be turning green. If not, those areas of your lawn may need to be dug up and over seeded. The best thing is to dig out the dead grass, roots included, but If you do do not want to dig it out and wish to just over seed it. heavy water the area every day for at least a week, then break up the dirt in that area very well and reseed it. The fall is the best time.

And next time, use a slow-release fertilizer to reduce the risk of fertilizer burn–and follow the instructions to a T.

Woof
Last edited by Sheepdog on Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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prairieman
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by prairieman »

SwampDonkey wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:08 am We live in the SE and have St Augustine grass in our yard.

I've been applying Scotts "weed'n'feed" 2-3x/year over the past couple of years (how long we've owned the home). That, combined with manually pulling weeds when they appear has worked well for us and our yard has gone from questionable looking to rather nice.

Unfortunately, I doubled up on my fall application and used two new types of fertilizer/weed-killer thinking "twice the strength = less weeds for me to pull." As the title suggests, I'm a knucklehead and the double application looks to have killed about 1/2 my grass (lots of brown/dead patches now) :oops: :oops: :oops:

I know there's no way to revive the dead patches so I'll probably be buying a pallet of sod and replacing 300-400 sq ft of our yard.

My question is, should I apply anything to the soil prior to laying the new sod? I'd hate to do all of the prep work and then lay the new sod only to have it die as well. Second question, since we are in the SE and I believe St Augustine goes dormant in the winter, is it still okay to do this over the next 3-4 weeks?

Any other tips I should be aware of?
You do realize, I hope, that much of the fertilizer you apply ends up in the lakes and rivers - causing those to look awful. If you must use fertilizer, try limit to one application per year. Even better, as some have mentioned, convert part of it to a native grass and flower combo that looks great but does not need water, fertilizer, or much care. The fertilizer and lawn management companies try to sell you much more fertilizer and weed products than you actually need.
There are many websites that teach you how to help your lawn stay healthy through judicious mowing practices.
oldfatguy
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by oldfatguy »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:34 am
We are thankful to be in a rural setting. Nobody expresses a negative thought about our lack of a proper lawn, and if they did, I would have no patience with their views.

I wonder how many people gaze out at their perfect lawns while they bemoan Bee Colony Collapse.
+1

We're in an urban residential neighborhood, and I'd say about 80-90% of the neighbors apply pesticides/herbicides to their lawns. Ours is mostly weeds, but no one else seems to care. We also have a lot of mature trees in the neighborhood, and about half of my backyard is a wooded area that is not mowed or maintained at all.
egrets
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by egrets »

prairieman wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:46 am
SwampDonkey wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:08 am We live in the SE and have St Augustine grass in our yard.

I've been applying Scotts "weed'n'feed" 2-3x/year over the past couple of years (how long we've owned the home). That, combined with manually pulling weeds when they appear has worked well for us and our yard has gone from questionable looking to rather nice.

Unfortunately, I doubled up on my fall application and used two new types of fertilizer/weed-killer thinking "twice the strength = less weeds for me to pull." As the title suggests, I'm a knucklehead and the double application looks to have killed about 1/2 my grass (lots of brown/dead patches now) :oops: :oops: :oops:

I know there's no way to revive the dead patches so I'll probably be buying a pallet of sod and replacing 300-400 sq ft of our yard.

My question is, should I apply anything to the soil prior to laying the new sod? I'd hate to do all of the prep work and then lay the new sod only to have it die as well. Second question, since we are in the SE and I believe St Augustine goes dormant in the winter, is it still okay to do this over the next 3-4 weeks?

Any other tips I should be aware of?
You do realize, I hope, that much of the fertilizer you apply ends up in the lakes and rivers - causing those to look awful. If you must use fertilizer, try limit to one application per year. Even better, as some have mentioned, convert part of it to a native grass and flower combo that looks great but does not need water, fertilizer, or much care. The fertilizer and lawn management companies try to sell you much more fertilizer and weed products than you actually need.
There are many websites that teach you how to help your lawn stay healthy through judicious mowing practices.
I overseed with clover, which fixes nitrogen. I never otherwise fertilize the lawn and it looks fine and better than my neighbors' during drought season. The only fertilizer I use, sparingly, is Milorganite once every year or two on the deck planters and gardens. Milorganite is made of dead bacteria from Milwaukee's waste processing plants.

I don't care what my neighbors' houses and yards look like, and as far as I know they don't care what mine look like. This is the benefit of living in an actual neighborhood and not some cookie cutter development with a HOA.
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Point »

Seeding will probably not work as the weed killer you applied cia the fertilizer will also affect seeds trying to sprout. The fertilizer needs to be on watered through to lower levels, as the ground is probably too hot/salty to support root establishment.
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FGal
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by FGal »

I believe as the OP lives in Florida? I live in similar area (gulf coast anyway) and we get super hot summers, mild winters, use St Aug grass almost exclusively and also HOA controlled. Yard died about 1.5 years ago due to an excessive amount of rain + a strain of weed & feed that saw our St Aug grass varietal as "weed" + final destroyer was sod webworms that haven't been knocked down in years due to a lack of hard freezing. My whole neighborhood has been hit really hard by those :annoyed webworms all year...

Apologies for the novel below, take whatever sounds good with a grain of salt, and won't hurt my feelings to be corrected. I kept thinking of other things I remembered from my own experience and it just kind of snowballed. :D

You can't grow St Augustine from seed, period. They don't sell it that way; it comes as sod rolls, pieces or plugs. You could look into Bermuda or other types that may work from seed, but it is unlikely you'll get a decent grass of any type to grow unless you're having temps at least in the 70s, decent sun and appropriate amounts of watering.

I waited until after winter to resod - did the yard in spring this year. Would not recommend sodding now unless your yard is super horrible looking. Bare dirt is likely not terrible if your overall yard is cut down shorter and the general yard is well maintained (no cruddy piles of stones/bricks, unkempt shrubbery, etc). Our yard had a HUGE dead patch through the winter, but we made sure it was otherwise immaculate and never got written up for it having no grass and I know others in my same area did get cited for dead grass/dirt because they complained about it on social media.

You'll likely still be able to find some sort of sod available from a dedicated grass supplier, but it is definitely not ideal and the level of fussing is going to be multiplied as opposed to waiting until spring. Someone mentioned above that St Aug needs a specific ground temp - I did extensive research on all this. It does go dormant if the ground temps drop below 55-60˚F. It does okay if it's above that, but if you want to get the healthy roots/nice grass spread/fill, the type of SA grass I put in needed it consistently above 80˚F with FULL SUN and well watered for 2-3 weeks. I watered every day for 2 weeks, then every other day for additional 2 weeks (taking into consideration rain events) and then made sure it received 3+ inches per week through the summer/early fall.

After install, stay off of it as much as possible. No mowing for at least 2 weeks. Wait a month if possible. Cut adjusted so it had at least 3+ inches of grass blade left over so lawn was longer but I edged it knife sharp so the HOA folks never wrote me up for having even but slightly long grass since it looked good. ;)

Prep was removing ALL the twigs/trash, digging/breaking up the existing soil to a depth of 6 inches or better (used a shovel and got a great workout but I have a smallish yard). Added in 1 40lb of topsoil/compost blend for every 12-ish square feet and for good measure saved around 5 lbs of used coffee grounds and mixed it in also as a soil amendment (5 lbs for my entire front yard - around 500 sq ft mind you). Spaded all that into the yard then raked smooth. If you have clumps of dirt, break them up because the lumpier the dirt, the worse the sod will look and if there are twigs or junk, get them out, because in addition to the smooth factor, roots won't grow well if they run into obstacles. No idea if the amendments were totally necessary, but figured it wouldn't hurt.

I also waited for a day that had a recent (within last 48 hours) rain, so the soil was easier to break up and mix, and also had rain coming in the forecast so it cut down on the amount I had to do (and rain hits the WHOLE yard so not as pain in the rear fussing with sprinkler throw and hand watering).

Laid the sod in running bond style like they show in all the videos for the sod pieces (we bought the 1x2.5 ish foot pieces) and I just CAREFULLY walked the seams and over the body of the pieces to get them into good contact with the dirt (no heavy roller, just slow, even steps - roots don't grow into airspace either), the watered them in ASAP (which also helps remove air pockets). Seams dry out faster, so I hand watered them for the first week to make sure they got lots of moisture.

New sod needs lots of care in the first month. There are so many people that got $$ sod in my neighborhood and just let it die because they didn't understand the need to water DAILY and how important it was to make that dirt smooth, and get the sod pieces in full contact.

I'll not use weed and feed again now that I've seen the damage it can do when a lawn is stressed. I used fungicide at one point and had to hit it weekly with stuff to keep the webworms under control (webworms will come with a vengeance to eat on newly laid sod - they'll live okay in existing lawns and landscaping but fresh sod is like a juicy steak to a hungry dog... they will come from 10 yards away to get that bounty). I did use a beneficial natural treatment every other week (alternated the insecticide) that was a targeted bacteria that would kill only the bad webworm caterpillars - not worms, pets, people.

But your best bet is to talk to the grass people in your town. It is possible to lay sod year round where I live since we technically only see freezing temps maybe every 5-ish years, and even if it's cool, it will still survive if you water it frequently enough and it will send out deeper roots once it starts warming up. But if you put it down, you absolutely will have to water much more often because the roots likely won't grow much, won't be hardened off and it won't be strong/resilient enough to withstand a hard freeze or lack of strong sun/warmth... which is why I wouldn't advise doing it now since I personally have terrible luck and I would pay hundreds to get the stuff, spend more time or money paying others to install... only to have to redo it in the spring.
Last edited by FGal on Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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swr
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by swr »

I would apply some gypsum; creates soil porosity and will help leach away excess fertilizer and herbicide. Then reseed in the spring.
Not a bad idea to check your soil pH; local garden centers may test it for free. Apply lime if soil is acidic.
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SwampDonkey
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by SwampDonkey »

Update:
I just tested the pH of our grass using a 3-in-1 probe from Amazon. pH looks to be extremely low at 5.0; based upon my internet research, the pH should be between 6.3 and 7.5 for St. Augustine.

I initially thought the probe may have been broken/needing calibrated but I walked 10 steps into my neighbors beautiful grass and checked her grass and it came in between 6.5 and 7.0.

My next step is to spread lime across the grass and hopefully increase the pH over the next month.

Thanks to everyone for their recommendations.
Chip
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by Chip »

SwampDonkey wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:19 am Update:
I just tested the pH of our grass using a 3-in-1 probe from Amazon. pH looks to be extremely low at 5.0; based upon my internet research, the pH should be between 6.3 and 7.5 for St. Augustine.

I initially thought the probe may have been broken/needing calibrated but I walked 10 steps into my neighbors beautiful grass and checked her grass and it came in between 6.5 and 7.0.

My next step is to spread lime across the grass and hopefully increase the pH over the next month.
Please make sure to test multiple locations in both your and your neighbor's yard before liming. Say at least 10 tests in each, spread around each yard, at different depths. It's surprising to me that there could be that much difference in pH between the two lawns, though I guess the fertilizer you applied could have some effect.

Does your neighbor regularly apply lime to their yard?
davemanjam
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Re: Killed grass with too much fertilizer

Post by davemanjam »

If you can afford to wait there is a good chance the grass will come back and be fine.
FGal wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:40 pm You can't grow St Augustine from seed, period.
Going to need a reference there. The people selling Sod are growing it just fine, so there must be a way.
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