Gutter Downspout Question
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Gutter Downspout Question
OK, let me begin with mea culpa - I am not handy/mechanical. My father the MIT engineer (coincidentally born 100 years ago today, Sept. 7, 1920, gone these ten years) was. My daughter is. The gene skipped me.
I am getting small amounts of water in the basement, immediately opposite the gutter downspout, which connects to an underground cistern. However, the house is 43 years old, and that cistern has never been dug up or inspected. It could be full/broken, causing the soil around the foundation to become saturated and enter the foundation. At least that's my current theory.
I'd like to try a simple fix first: disconnect the downspout, attach an elbow and run the gutter out about 6 feet onto the lawn. If that doesn't work, I'll figure out a Pan B, such as pipe the water away from the house underground, a much bigger job.
Is the "elbow" solution something I should try myself, or should I hire a gutter company to do this for me? If I do it myself what tools do I need? Where should I get the elbow and extension. Any "tricks of the trade" I should know?
Thanks in advance.
I am getting small amounts of water in the basement, immediately opposite the gutter downspout, which connects to an underground cistern. However, the house is 43 years old, and that cistern has never been dug up or inspected. It could be full/broken, causing the soil around the foundation to become saturated and enter the foundation. At least that's my current theory.
I'd like to try a simple fix first: disconnect the downspout, attach an elbow and run the gutter out about 6 feet onto the lawn. If that doesn't work, I'll figure out a Pan B, such as pipe the water away from the house underground, a much bigger job.
Is the "elbow" solution something I should try myself, or should I hire a gutter company to do this for me? If I do it myself what tools do I need? Where should I get the elbow and extension. Any "tricks of the trade" I should know?
Thanks in advance.
72 yrs. mostly-retired lawyer. Boglehead since day 1 (and M* Diehard long before that) under various names
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
Two ways to do it - buy metal elbow and a straight section of downspout, or get a downspout to drain pipe adapter and a section of flexible corrugated drain. Latter is cheaper and easier to put in trash when you have your permanent solution installed.
You can use zip ties or sheet metal screws to fasten the adapter to your downspout.
There are two sizes of downspout commonly used in residential so be sure to measure.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flex-A-Spou ... /204478055
https://www.homedepot.com/p/FLEX-Drain- ... /202745422
You can use zip ties or sheet metal screws to fasten the adapter to your downspout.
There are two sizes of downspout commonly used in residential so be sure to measure.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flex-A-Spou ... /204478055
https://www.homedepot.com/p/FLEX-Drain- ... /202745422
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
You're fine. I've learned a lot more in life by admitting when I don't know something, than trying to protect my self-confidence and pretending I already knew. Tons of people will provide you with photos/links/advice, but trust me - it really is an easy DIY job. I'd go to your local hardware store (take a photo of your current setup) explain your situation and ask them what you need. They'll hook you up, complete with instructions. The only advice I'd give you, is make sure this is a temporary fix until you decide if it will be permanent. I.e. disconnect - don't cut your downspout if possible, save screws, etc. Then you can put everything back the way it was if you find out the problem is elsewhere.
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Re: Gutter Downspout Question
Agreed, and make sure you run it to an area that the water will drain far away from your house. Otherwise it may just run back to the foundation if the area is not graded properly or has settled over time. Does water collect or the ground get mushy after rains in the area where the water intrusion is?nordsteve wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:08 am Two ways to do it - buy metal elbow and a straight section of downspout, or get a downspout to drain pipe adapter and a section of flexible corrugated drain. Latter is cheaper and easier to put in trash when you have your permanent solution installed.
You can use zip ties or sheet metal screws to fasten the adapter to your downspout.
There are two sizes of downspout commonly used in residential so be sure to measure.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flex-A-Spou ... /204478055
https://www.homedepot.com/p/FLEX-Drain- ... /202745422
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
.....
Last edited by Chuck107 on Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alas, I find moderation of this forum too restrictive for my tastes, farewell.
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
This is extremely easy, and worth trying to solve your problem. It can harm the appearance of the lawn, due to excess water, or high flow carrying away topsoil. At the very least, you should put a plastic outflow tray ("splash block") under the end of the outlet, to slow the velocity of the water when it hits the grass. You may also have puddles on the lawn. Consider the overal topography of the entire property. Are any septic system leach fields involved? But that's probably better than having water in the basement. Be wary of producing outflow onto a neighbor's property. Many towns restrict storm water outflows, for example restricting connection to or near street storm drains. It's also likely that any nearby streams are protected wetlands, that you cannot discharge water into.
Another alternative, depending on the ferocity of rain storms in your area, is a perforated outflow pipe, or a fabric sock over the end of the outflow. It's not what they are for, but you could use a Wye connector to divide your outflow into two streams of half the intensity. We have a rain barrel, for orchid growing reasons, but it has little effect on total outflows to the lawn. (Northern NJ). You may need to consider effects on lawn service work or other outside trades. I mean like snowplows hitting the outflow pipe.
I don't mean to quibble, but there's a difference between a cistern and an engineered stormwater detention tank. You may wish to start saving for a professional solution to this, long-term. Despite regulation of "impervious coverage" in our fully-developed postwar town, stormwater is a continuing problem. It hasn't been helped by pro-redevelopment follies, like labelling paver patios "non-impervious" versus asphalt and concrete. It takes at least 18" of underground preparation and fill, plus special pavers, to actually achieve penetrable paving.
Edit: This job can be easier with a battery operated drill. You need some aluminum or stainless-steel screws, and pilot drills to match. Drilling and screwing into plastic pipe fittings is different than drilling for sheet aluminum. You need your work to be dis-assemble-able for leaf clogs or chipmunk nest removal.
Another alternative, depending on the ferocity of rain storms in your area, is a perforated outflow pipe, or a fabric sock over the end of the outflow. It's not what they are for, but you could use a Wye connector to divide your outflow into two streams of half the intensity. We have a rain barrel, for orchid growing reasons, but it has little effect on total outflows to the lawn. (Northern NJ). You may need to consider effects on lawn service work or other outside trades. I mean like snowplows hitting the outflow pipe.
I don't mean to quibble, but there's a difference between a cistern and an engineered stormwater detention tank. You may wish to start saving for a professional solution to this, long-term. Despite regulation of "impervious coverage" in our fully-developed postwar town, stormwater is a continuing problem. It hasn't been helped by pro-redevelopment follies, like labelling paver patios "non-impervious" versus asphalt and concrete. It takes at least 18" of underground preparation and fill, plus special pavers, to actually achieve penetrable paving.
Edit: This job can be easier with a battery operated drill. You need some aluminum or stainless-steel screws, and pilot drills to match. Drilling and screwing into plastic pipe fittings is different than drilling for sheet aluminum. You need your work to be dis-assemble-able for leaf clogs or chipmunk nest removal.
Last edited by crefwatch on Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gutter Downspout Question
I didn't click on the links. You are right, I'd definitely use solid vs. perforated. He's trying to get all of the water away from the house.Chuck107 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:17 amWouldn't it be better to use solid pipe rather than perforated?nordsteve wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:08 am Two ways to do it - buy metal elbow and a straight section of downspout, or get a downspout to drain pipe adapter and a section of flexible corrugated drain. Latter is cheaper and easier to put in trash when you have your permanent solution installed.
You can use zip ties or sheet metal screws to fasten the adapter to your downspout.
There are two sizes of downspout commonly used in residential so be sure to measure.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flex-A-Spou ... /204478055
https://www.homedepot.com/p/FLEX-Drain- ... /202745422
https://www.homedepot.com/p/FLEX-Drain- ... /202745419
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
Thanks for catching my mistake Chuck107 - this is a better choice than what I posted.Chuck107 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:17 am
Wouldn't it be better to use solid pipe rather than perforated?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/FLEX-Drain- ... /202745419
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
to funnel water away without an exposed pipe, consider using a "pop up"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-O7mIJb8nA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-O7mIJb8nA
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Re: Gutter Downspout Question
Next time it rains or use a hose/water, check the gutter to see if it is contributing to the problem.
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Re: Gutter Downspout Question
I think the idea is to temporarily hook the flex pipe up to test the the OP's hypothesis of what the problem is. I'd just daylight the flex pipe as others have suggested and make the set-up easily reversible in case the hypothesis is incorrect.Swansea wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:24 pm to funnel water away without an exposed pipe, consider using a "pop up"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-O7mIJb8nA
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
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- Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:36 pm
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
Thank you all, this will get me started, and I feel a lot more confident now. I'll do this as simply as possible to see if it solves the wet basement problem, and if it does I'll go for one of the more permanent fixes.
One thing I quickly realized while studying this is that downspouts can be 2x3" or 3x4".
I measured my downspout and it's 2x3".
The roof that feeds the gutter that drains into the downspout is very large - it is huge (house is a contemporary). I think the downspout should have been 3x4", and I may have to fix this in the future. I'm really trying to avoid spending thousands of dollars on a gutter/downspout replacement, but that just may not be possible.
Thanks again.
One thing I quickly realized while studying this is that downspouts can be 2x3" or 3x4".
I measured my downspout and it's 2x3".
The roof that feeds the gutter that drains into the downspout is very large - it is huge (house is a contemporary). I think the downspout should have been 3x4", and I may have to fix this in the future. I'm really trying to avoid spending thousands of dollars on a gutter/downspout replacement, but that just may not be possible.
Thanks again.
72 yrs. mostly-retired lawyer. Boglehead since day 1 (and M* Diehard long before that) under various names
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
On my house failing to run 10' extensions from the downspouts away from the house is a guarantee of water in the basement and 100% prevents the problem otherwise. On one side we have a sidewalk that tipped toward the house that was relayed with proper slope and onto a downgrade. Same result never vs always for water. We had some pitch problems with old drain gutters that dumped water overboard in the middle of the run. A good drain gutter man fixed everything. We run oversize gutters and oversize drainspouts. The run along the side is about 60' and we make sure all the water goes off the ends plus 10'.
Bad gutter engineering is a sure fire formula for a problem and in many cases an effective fix for the same problem.
In our neighborhood the space between houses can sometimes be a catchment for water and many homeowners have made effective use of french drains at the property line serving both houses. I don't have that problem.
Bad gutter engineering is a sure fire formula for a problem and in many cases an effective fix for the same problem.
In our neighborhood the space between houses can sometimes be a catchment for water and many homeowners have made effective use of french drains at the property line serving both houses. I don't have that problem.
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Re: Gutter Downspout Question
When you refer to "oversize" gutters and drainspouts, do you mean 3x4" drainspouts and 5" (or 6") gutters?dbr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:30 pm On my house failing to run 10' extensions from the downspouts away from the house is a guarantee of water in the basement and 100% prevents the problem otherwise. On one side we have a sidewalk that tipped toward the house that was relayed with proper slope and onto a downgrade. Same result never vs always for water. We had some pitch problems with old drain gutters that dumped water overboard in the middle of the run. A good drain gutter man fixed everything. We run oversize gutters and oversize drainspouts. The run along the side is about 60' and we make sure all the water goes off the ends plus 10'.
Bad gutter engineering is a sure fire formula for a problem and in many cases an effective fix for the same problem.
In our neighborhood the space between houses can sometimes be a catchment for water and many homeowners have made effective use of french drains at the property line serving both houses. I don't have that problem.
72 yrs. mostly-retired lawyer. Boglehead since day 1 (and M* Diehard long before that) under various names
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
YesSmall Law Survivor wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:58 pmWhen you refer to "oversize" gutters and drainspouts, do you mean 3x4" drainspouts and 5" (or 6") gutters?dbr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:30 pm On my house failing to run 10' extensions from the downspouts away from the house is a guarantee of water in the basement and 100% prevents the problem otherwise. On one side we have a sidewalk that tipped toward the house that was relayed with proper slope and onto a downgrade. Same result never vs always for water. We had some pitch problems with old drain gutters that dumped water overboard in the middle of the run. A good drain gutter man fixed everything. We run oversize gutters and oversize drainspouts. The run along the side is about 60' and we make sure all the water goes off the ends plus 10'.
Bad gutter engineering is a sure fire formula for a problem and in many cases an effective fix for the same problem.
In our neighborhood the space between houses can sometimes be a catchment for water and many homeowners have made effective use of french drains at the property line serving both houses. I don't have that problem.
Re: Gutter Downspout Question
You can do the 'elbow' thing. . .Small Law Survivor wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:57 am OK, let me begin with mea culpa - I am not handy/mechanical. My father the MIT engineer (coincidentally born 100 years ago today, Sept. 7, 1920, gone these ten years) was. My daughter is. The gene skipped me.
I am getting small amounts of water in the basement, immediately opposite the gutter downspout, which connects to an underground cistern. However, the house is 43 years old, and that cistern has never been dug up or inspected. It could be full/broken, causing the soil around the foundation to become saturated and enter the foundation. At least that's my current theory.
I'd like to try a simple fix first: disconnect the downspout, attach an elbow and run the gutter out about 6 feet onto the lawn. If that doesn't work, I'll figure out a Pan B, such as pipe the water away from the house underground, a much bigger job.
Is the "elbow" solution something I should try myself, or should I hire a gutter company to do this for me? If I do it myself what tools do I need? Where should I get the elbow and extension. Any "tricks of the trade" I should know?
Thanks in advance.
Hit Lowes or Home Depot and there are plenty of options even perhaps some inexpensive expandable plastic diverters.
Look for the connection point on the downspout there are circular looking 'pins' that attach one section to another.
Pry the pin out and then the section of the downspout can be separated.
Good luck. . .