PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:42 pm I don't understand the temperature difference, either. I'm hoping that my CPU thermal paste is applied correctly - it was reapplied when I replaced the motherboard.

I'm also running the GPU full-load, which is sitting under the CPU heat sink / single Noctua fan assembly. It's got good separation, but I'm wondering if some of the air flow is going through the CPU heat sink and causing the raised temperature. I'd doubt it, but I wanted to mention it. When Folding@home is stopped, the CPU temperature drops to 38 °C, the GPU to 33 °C.

Have you compared the impact of your Eco mode on the Folding@home performance? Your metric could be credited points / day.

Detail - I think you meant that it's "73°F inside today;" instead of "73°C inside today;".
Oops. Yeah, 73°F inside my apartment, not 73°C. The latter would require a rather urgent call to the HVAC people.

If the thermal paste weren't applied correctly, I'd expect you to have issues at idle, and immediate throttling under load; I think it's fine. I wonder if adding a second fan would help, but it's probably just the added heat load of the two extra cores. Tortoise mentioned that he saw similar results with the exact same two CPUs. I'm just surprised because ten degrees is a substantial difference in temp for rather small difference in power draw.

I haven't done the comparison, but I'd expect a 10% decrease in CPU points based on the reduced all-core usage. I think it's a good trade-off, as the reduced fans are much less distracting and I'm more inclined to leave it running while I'm sitting at the desk and working on my laptop.
tortoise84
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:42 pm I'm also running the GPU full-load, which is sitting under the CPU heat sink / single Noctua fan assembly. It's got good separation, but I'm wondering if some of the air flow is going through the CPU heat sink and causing the raised temperature. I'd doubt it, but I wanted to mention it. When Folding@home is stopped, the CPU temperature drops to 38 °C, the GPU to 33 °C.
Actually GPUs do put out a lot of heat, 150-250W depending on the model, so some of it will get sucked into the CPU heat sink raising the temp by a few degrees. I have an unusual compact upside down case, a Raijintek Styx, so I leave the side panel off for the GPU to vent hot air straight to the outside, and use the rear fan as an intake to blow fresh cold air into the CPU cooler. The hot air then exits out the side, or a bottom exhaust fan, or through the PSU which is in front of the CPU in this case.

A second CPU fan should lower temps by around 3C as well.
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LadyGeek
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Good info, thanks.
Independent George wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:08 am If the thermal paste weren't applied correctly, I'd expect you to have issues at idle, and immediate throttling under load; I think it's fine. I wonder if adding a second fan would help, but it's probably just the added heat load of the two extra cores. Tortoise mentioned that he saw similar results with the exact same two CPUs. I'm just surprised because ten degrees is a substantial difference in temp for rather small difference in power draw.
You're absolutely right. If the thermal paste was not correctly applied, I'd be having quite a number of issues right from the start.

Tortoise makes good points in the previous post. My GPU card is below the CPU heat sink. Although there's physical separation, I'll bet some of the GPU heat exhaust is mixing with the CPU air flow intake.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Mudpuppy »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:30 pm Tortoise makes good points in the previous post. My GPU card is below the CPU heat sink. Although there's physical separation, I'll bet some of the GPU heat exhaust is mixing with the CPU air flow intake.
The nice thing about the Noctua heatsink you have is it's pretty easy to add more fans to it to improve airflow. Although that might not help much if the GPU is proverbially poisoning the well.
lazydavid
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by lazydavid »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:30 pm
Independent George wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:08 am If the thermal paste weren't applied correctly, I'd expect you to have issues at idle, and immediate throttling under load; I think it's fine. I wonder if adding a second fan would help, but it's probably just the added heat load of the two extra cores. Tortoise mentioned that he saw similar results with the exact same two CPUs. I'm just surprised because ten degrees is a substantial difference in temp for rather small difference in power draw.
You're absolutely right. If the thermal paste was not correctly applied, I'd be having quite a number of issues right from the start.
Thermal paste application is a surprisingly forgiving process. Gamers Nexus did a video about two years ago on this, and the performance difference between an absolutely perfect application and "I don't think you could have possibly screwed that up worse" is WAY smaller than you'd expect.

Video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWVVTY63hc
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queso
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by queso »

lazydavid wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:06 am
LadyGeek wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:30 pm
Independent George wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:08 am If the thermal paste weren't applied correctly, I'd expect you to have issues at idle, and immediate throttling under load; I think it's fine. I wonder if adding a second fan would help, but it's probably just the added heat load of the two extra cores. Tortoise mentioned that he saw similar results with the exact same two CPUs. I'm just surprised because ten degrees is a substantial difference in temp for rather small difference in power draw.
You're absolutely right. If the thermal paste was not correctly applied, I'd be having quite a number of issues right from the start.
Thermal paste application is a surprisingly forgiving process. Gamers Nexus did a video about two years ago on this, and the performance difference between an absolutely perfect application and "I don't think you could have possibly screwed that up worse" is WAY smaller than you'd expect.

Video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUWVVTY63hc
Thanks for the video...pretty interesting how little delta even a horrible application has. It'll come in handy if I can ever get my hands on the parts for my build..
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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

So, I had a busy day at work today, and until just this moment, I'd completely forgotten I'd left FAH running the entire time. It's not that the fans are silent while the CPU is set on Eco-mode - fan noise is definitely noticeable when I think about it - but it's quiet and unobtrusive enough that I just didn't notice it while my concentration was elsewhere. There were even a few times when I got irritated at my laptop's high-pitched fans.
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LadyGeek
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

Just when you think it's safe to go back in the water... my dual-boot Linux / Windows PC graphics failed. By failure, the video was corrupted inside open windows and in the task bar.

(A few weeks ago, I switched my Linux from Fedora / Xfce desktop to Ubuntu / Cinnamon desktop.) The failure was seen in the Linux "Windows".

I have two identical hardware Lenovo desktop PCs. One is my everyday Linux / Windows PC, the other was relegated as a backup PC and put in storage (was used by my late husband). I easily installed the SSDs into the second PC.

It booted into MS Windows out of the box. Microsoft even recognized the license as activated. However, it wasn't supposed to boot into MS Windows.

For some reason, the GRUB2 bootloader was hosed. I booted from my Ubuntu live USB stick and followed How to Repair GRUB2 When Ubuntu Won’t Boot. It worked. After fixing a few more software OS things, I was back in business.

The bottom line is that both PCs were purchased at the same time - about 3 years ago and put under heavy use. If one fails, the other is not far behind.* I'm thinking to replace this PC when the supply chain gets going and parts become available at decent prices.

As a backup, I can put the SSDs into my Ryzen 7 build - there's plenty of room.

* This PC already has one failed DP (display port) connector and the audio left channel line output is dead. I'm using the front-panel headphone connector.
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lazydavid
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by lazydavid »

Well my desktop has failed 4 times in the same way as previously over the past 2 days, and now is in it's "unrecoverable" state, where last time I had to have Asus replace the motherboard. I think I'm officially done with this crappy TUF X570-Plus Gaming board, and it's going in the trash. The question is what to replace it with? Currently looking at the ASRock Steel Legend X570, but very open to suggestions.

Requirements:
Must support nVME 4.0 drives
Must have USB-C on rear panel
Prefer many fan headers
Strong primary x16 slot that can support a heavy graphics card
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queso
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by queso »

lazydavid wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:37 am Well my desktop has failed 4 times in the same way as previously over the past 2 days, and now is in it's "unrecoverable" state, where last time I had to have Asus replace the motherboard. I think I'm officially done with this crappy TUF X570-Plus Gaming board, and it's going in the trash. The question is what to replace it with? Currently looking at the ASRock Steel Legend X570, but very open to suggestions.

Requirements:
Must support nVME 4.0 drives
Must have USB-C on rear panel
Prefer many fan headers
Strong primary x16 slot that can support a heavy graphics card
You may not want another ASUS after your experience, but I'm on day 3 of my ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero and so far so good..
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by lazydavid »

queso wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:44 am You may not want another ASUS after your experience, but I'm on day 3 of my ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero and so far so good..
Lol, definitely not. Day 3 does not give me the warm and fuzzies. Both of my TUF X570s made it right around 3 months before progressively failing.
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queso
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by queso »

lazydavid wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:53 am
queso wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:44 am You may not want another ASUS after your experience, but I'm on day 3 of my ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero and so far so good..
Lol, definitely not. Day 3 does not give me the warm and fuzzies. Both of my TUF X570s made it right around 3 months before progressively failing.
well...at least I don't have to worry for about 3 more months.. :happy
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

Good timing. My Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus was replaced on Dec 12, 2020 - about three months ago. :)

My next motherboard won't be ASUS and I'm keeping an eye on this discussion.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Horsefly »

Not sure if Asus boards should all be lumped together as bad. I built my new system in Sep-2020, using the ASUS ROG Strix B550-F Gaming (WiFi 6) board. I use it every day and it has been completely stable.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Nekrotok »

Wow, so many reliability issues.. I've had a couple failures here and there but sounds like you guys are having worse luck. On the bright side, at least these issues can be fixed by replacing the broken part and you don't have to replace or rma the whole computer.

For anyone having just audio issues, apple makes a usbc to headphone adapter for like $8 that I found works quite well. Much simpler than replacing an entire motherboard.
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Independent George
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

Wow, I'm genuinely surprised by all the issues with the ASUS boards; they've historically made solid hardware, but that's a worrying large number of data points on the same product.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by lazydavid »

Independent George wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:34 pm Wow, I'm genuinely surprised by all the issues with the ASUS boards; they've historically made solid hardware, but that's a worrying large number of data points on the same product.
It may be specifically the TUF product line, as that's where I'm seeing the most consistent reports of major issues. It may not be the entire lineup. Like you, I've had good experience with them in the past, and have a friend who builds with Asus boards exclusively without incident.

So at a minimum, I'd definitely recommend avoiding the TUF X570-Plus, and also the Prime X570-P and X-570-Pro, which appear to be the same design. Other boards may very well be fine. I'm just not personally going to take the risk.
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