PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

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lazydavid
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by lazydavid »

LadyGeek wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:24 pm I'm still waiting for the EVGA 3060 Ti XC to get reasonably near MSRP ($469.99). So far, it's ranging from $815 to $1,100. I'm not sure what will happen if I need a warranty repair. How long will the wait time be for a replacement?
EVGA has been excellent about this, particularly when Amazon's "New World" game was bricking 3090s left and right. They ship out advance replacements within a day or two, and then you return the bad card. They do take a ridiculously high deposit (like 3x MSRP if memory serves) to make sure you're not just trying to scalp an extra unit, but they refund it immediately when they get the return.
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kevinf
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

Independent George wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:21 am So after some research, I have a theory on why my CPU reaches higher temps than my GPU under full load: I think it's because the integrated heat spreader on the back of the CPU is thick enough to create a temperature gradient between the actual chip and the cold plate.

A GPU is delidded by default - when you install the water block, the cold plate makes direct contact with the chip. On a CPU, though, there's 2mm or so of heat spreader between the silicon and the cold plate. This conducts heat well enough to cool within spec, but because there's more distance between the heat source (the physical cpu) and coolant, it has both a higher equilibrium temperature, and higher spikes.

This is not an issue for even power users compiling code or rendering 3d graphics; 75C is well below Tj Max, and will neither throttle nor reduce lifespan. However, this is the reason hardcore overclockers de-lid the cpu - even when you're working with something as cold as liquid nitrogen, you want as little as possible between the chip and the nitro.

I have no desire to delid, and you couldn't pay me to touch the liquid metal that overclockers use (it's both electrically conductive, and it's reactive with the pcb). I was just curious why the CPU reached such a higher max temp versus the GPU despite drawing less power, and I'm satisfied with this theory.
I've been running an i5 6600K that I de-lidded and applied conductonaut (liquid metal) to the die, under a Corsair H110 280mm AIO for a bit over 2 years now. It's been working great and with the CPU slightly overvolted and OC'd to 4.5GHz it maxes out at 60c temp. I also did the same with a NZXT 240mm AIO and my 1080ti GPU except I used Artic MX-4 as thermal paste instead of liquid metal. That also tops out at 60c, despite being heavily overclocked as well.

But despite all that, I've got the upgrade bug and will be moving to a Ryzen 5600X system with a Noctua air cooler, the GPU will remain as is however. If you don't hear from me in a day or two, I stuffed something up during the upgrade :oops:
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by sunsetting101 »

Seeing Dwarf Fortress reminds me of Rimworld.

I also got a game called PC Building Simulator in preparation for the real thing in a couple of years for me.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

Welcome! I had no idea you could simulate PC building as a game: PC Building Simulator (on Steam). Interesting, as it has a ton of vendor support.

This is another way to learn how to build a PC (vs. YouTube videos). The simulator performs benchmarks. If it could only run my software... :)
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

The discussion on VMs has been moved into a new thread. See: [Software] Virtual Machines - Run a computer within a computer

From my earlier post:
LadyGeek wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:24 pm I'm still waiting for the EVGA 3060 Ti XC to get reasonably near MSRP ($469.99). So far, it's ranging from $815 to $1,100. I'm not sure what will happen if I need a warranty repair. How long will the wait time be for a replacement?
The answer:
lazydavid wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:11 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:24 pm I'm still waiting for the EVGA 3060 Ti XC to get reasonably near MSRP ($469.99). So far, it's ranging from $815 to $1,100. I'm not sure what will happen if I need a warranty repair. How long will the wait time be for a replacement?
EVGA has been excellent about this, particularly when Amazon's "New World" game was bricking 3090s left and right. They ship out advance replacements within a day or two, and then you return the bad card. They do take a ridiculously high deposit (like 3x MSRP if memory serves) to make sure you're not just trying to scalp an extra unit, but they refund it immediately when they get the return.
The earlier discussion on the $1,400 MSRP GPU has me again reconsidering if the $800 price point for the EVGA 3060 Ti XC is worth it.
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kevinf
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

kevinf wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:32 pm But despite all that, I've got the upgrade bug and will be moving to a Ryzen 5600X system with a Noctua air cooler, the GPU will remain as is however. If you don't hear from me in a day or two, I stuffed something up during the upgrade :oops:
Everything went pretty smoothly and I'm back online with a snappy new PC :happy
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

kevinf wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:03 pm
kevinf wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:32 pm But despite all that, I've got the upgrade bug and will be moving to a Ryzen 5600X system with a Noctua air cooler, the GPU will remain as is however. If you don't hear from me in a day or two, I stuffed something up during the upgrade :oops:
Everything went pretty smoothly and I'm back online with a snappy new PC :happy
Well? Details? What did you upgrade to?
LadyGeek wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:33 pm Late last week, I decided to go after EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti XC.

It simply ended in frustration, as both Newegg and EVGA (direct) are holding lotteries. Newegg calls it the "Newegg Shuffle" and EVGA forces you to sign-up for an account and then be put on a wait list. My local Micro Center is restricting purchases to in-store only with highly restrictive purchasing rules - must show up at the store in 20 minutes, for example.

Amazon has the GPU, but at inflated prices. MSRP is 469.99
GPUs are pretty much being shipped directly to crypto mining firms right now; distributors are holding some inventory for retail, but at inflated prices.

At this point, our best hope is for the Intel Arc cards to be out in Q1 2022. Since they're the new player in this market, I would expect that they have a keen interest in ensuring their cards actually make it to consumers at reasonable prices. And if Intel gets their products out, I'd expect Nvidia and AMD to try and do the same.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

Independent George wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:47 pm
kevinf wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:03 pm
kevinf wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:32 pm But despite all that, I've got the upgrade bug and will be moving to a Ryzen 5600X system with a Noctua air cooler, the GPU will remain as is however. If you don't hear from me in a day or two, I stuffed something up during the upgrade :oops:
Everything went pretty smoothly and I'm back online with a snappy new PC :happy
Well? Details? What did you upgrade to?
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/45989260 <-- NEW
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/14286051 <-- OLD

Today I found out that the 5000 series Ryzen perform 5-10% better using all 4 RAM slots, unlike pretty much everything else for the past 10 years that runs fastest with only 2 sticks of RAM so there is less memory controller overhead. So I ordered 4x8GB sticks to compare to my current 2x16GB sticks of RAM and see if the benchmarks show any improvement. It will literally cost me nothing to swap it out so why not get the free boost if it's there?
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ My current motherboard is the Asus Tuf Gaming X-570-Plus which is almost the same as yours but with a few less features. Where do you see that filling 4 slots is better than 2?
Independent George wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:47 pm GPUs are pretty much being shipped directly to crypto mining firms right now; distributors are holding some inventory for retail, but at inflated prices.

At this point, our best hope is for the Intel Arc cards to be out in Q1 2022. Since they're the new player in this market, I would expect that they have a keen interest in ensuring their cards actually make it to consumers at reasonable prices. And if Intel gets their products out, I'd expect Nvidia and AMD to try and do the same.
I'm looking for a card that supports CUDA - which is built-in to NVidia. As for crypto mining, NVidia created quite a controversy when they implemented a hash rate limiter to keep miners from grabbing the market. AMD did not implement the limit.

(I'll stop commenting here, but wanted to mention this. Readers can google "nvidia crypto mining hash rate limit" for the details.)
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kevinf
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

LadyGeek wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:48 am ^^^ My current motherboard is the Asus Tuf Gaming X-570-Plus which is almost the same as yours but with a few less features. Where do you see that filling 4 slots is better than 2?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UkGu6A-6sQ

Gamer's Nexus did the testing in the above video. They always post their methods and a detailed description of what they do so it's easy to fact check for yourself. I recommend their channel if you are interested in performance computing.

As an aside, I have two to three drives I'm thinking about converting to dynamic disks and setting up as JBoD, but it seems like Microsoft has deprecated that in favor of their "storage spaces" in Win10. I'm wondering if you have any experience with that? I've seen some talk that using ReFS has caused strange conflicts with certain software so I'll probably stick with NTFS. It seems like they are still working the kinks out of their storage spaces feature.
Last edited by kevinf on Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

Sorry, I don't have any practical experience with JBoD ("just a bunch of disks") or ReFS (Resilient File System).

As for filesystems, I asked that question several years ago to someone experienced with this. His answer: "You really, really don't want to trust a filesystem that hasn't been battle tested. There are far too many subtle problems that are nearly impossible to detect until it's too late."

Stick with something that has a long and well-proven track record.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Random Musings »

As I am not a PC builder (but have added memory and stuff in the past), I find the current PC market challenging as there seems to be many more compromises these days when looking for a modest desktop.

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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

kevinf wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:04 pm As an aside, I have two to three drives I'm thinking about converting to dynamic disks and setting up as JBoD, but it seems like Microsoft has deprecated that in favor of their "storage spaces" in Win10. I'm wondering if you have any experience with that? I've seen some mentioning that using ReFS can has caused strange conflicts with certain software so I'll probably stick with NTFS. It seems like they are still working the kinks out of their storage spaces feature.
I used Storage Spaces to combine an old 250GB NVMe and a 275GB 2.5" SATA SSD, and I later added a 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD to the storage pool, which is very easy to do. So it's good for combining drives that are too small on their own, and they don't have to be the same size. There's also a function to remove a drive from the storage pool providing that there's enough free space on the other drives to copy the files to.

This is not RAID 0 striping however, so you won't necessarily get any performance benefits. It doesn't really matter for me because my drives are all SSDs which are fast enough. There is a way to create a RAID 0 Storage Space through the PowerShell, but the drives have to be the same size and you can't remove an individual drive.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

tortoise84 wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:09 pm
kevinf wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:04 pm As an aside, I have two to three drives I'm thinking about converting to dynamic disks and setting up as JBoD, but it seems like Microsoft has deprecated that in favor of their "storage spaces" in Win10. I'm wondering if you have any experience with that? I've seen some mentioning that using ReFS can has caused strange conflicts with certain software so I'll probably stick with NTFS. It seems like they are still working the kinks out of their storage spaces feature.
I used Storage Spaces to combine an old 250GB NVMe and a 275GB 2.5" SATA SSD, and I later added a 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD to the storage pool, which is very easy to do. So it's good for combining drives that are too small on their own, and they don't have to be the same size. There's also a function to remove a drive from the storage pool providing that there's enough free space on the other drives to copy the files to.

This is not RAID 0 striping however, so you won't necessarily get any performance benefits. It doesn't really matter for me because my drives are all SSDs which are fast enough. There is a way to create a RAID 0 Storage Space through the PowerShell, but the drives have to be the same size and you can't remove an individual drive.
Welp, Win10 'Storage Spaces' errored out (drives not supported / check cables) and was unable to create a JBoD array from my two SSDs. I went to disk management and created a spanned array with that instead.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

kevinf wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:07 am Welp, Win10 'Storage Spaces' errored out (drives not supported / check cables) and was unable to create a JBoD array from my two SSDs. I went to disk management and created a spanned array with that instead.
Ok you'll have to reset the disks. First delete the volumes in Disk Management. You may have to convert back to Basic Disks as well.

Open an Admin level PowerShell.
Get-PhysicalDisk
Find the FriendlyName or SerialNumber of the disk that you want to reset.
Reset-PhysicalDisk -FriendlyName "[the FriendlyName with double quotes]"
or Reset-PhysicalDisk -SerialNumber "[the SerialNumber]"
Try to create the Storage Space again.

If it still doesn't work, you can also try to delete the disks with: diskpart, list disk, select disk [#], clean. Then exit and do the Reset-PhysicalDisk again.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

tortoise84 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:22 am
kevinf wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:07 am Welp, Win10 'Storage Spaces' errored out (drives not supported / check cables) and was unable to create a JBoD array from my two SSDs. I went to disk management and created a spanned array with that instead.
Ok you'll have to reset the disks. First delete the volumes in Disk Management. You may have to convert back to Basic Disks as well.

Open an Admin level PowerShell.
Get-PhysicalDisk
Find the FriendlyName or SerialNumber of the disk that you want to reset.
Reset-PhysicalDisk -FriendlyName "[the FriendlyName with double quotes]"
or Reset-PhysicalDisk -SerialNumber "[the SerialNumber]"
Try to create the Storage Space again.

If it still doesn't work, you can also try to delete the disks with: diskpart, list disk, select disk [#], clean. Then exit and do the Reset-PhysicalDisk again.
Or I could just use the spanned array I have already setup and working. That sounds like a lot of work to arrive at the same destination, but I do appreciate the attempt though :happy

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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

kevinf wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:54 pm Or I could just use the spanned array I have already setup and working. That sounds like a lot of work to arrive at the same destination, but I do appreciate the attempt though :happy
If you're happy with that then that's fine, but like I said before, a big advantage of Storage Spaces is that it can remove a drive from a storage pool without deleting the entire volume.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by youraveragejoe »

Managed to make a new rig mid-2021 after the first build in 2016. This was for 1440p 144hz games, and I'm pretty happy with the results. I managed to snag a graphics card for MSRP on AMD's website (although I still think every MSRP is still overpriced... looking at you 3080 TI...). Got a Mobo/CPU combo off of Newegg for $300 too. IMO, PC building is more fun when you get killer deals, but man was it hard to build a PC this time.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZZGx7X
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

tortoise84 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:52 pm
kevinf wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:54 pm Or I could just use the spanned array I have already setup and working. That sounds like a lot of work to arrive at the same destination, but I do appreciate the attempt though :happy
If you're happy with that then that's fine, but like I said before, a big advantage of Storage Spaces is that it can remove a drive from a storage pool without deleting the entire volume.
Yep, I got ya. My use case doesn't really involve adding or removing drives to the spanned array. In case of failure, everything is backed up to the mirrored array and can simply be copied back to the replacements when they're set back up. Storage Spaces would probably be a good fit for someone intending to tinker around or expand in the future but I don't see that as being necessary within the foreseeable future for me. I pretty much just wanted my two spare physical disks to be a single logical one and that's all I needed out of it.
LadyGeek wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:48 am ^^^ My current motherboard is the Asus Tuf Gaming X-570-Plus which is almost the same as yours but with a few less features. Where do you see that filling 4 slots is better than 2?
As to the 2 vs 4 sticks of RAM... I installed a set of 4 today and there were small improvements to game FPS, mem latency, and mem bandwidth. More importantly, there was no degradation of performance that I could suss out.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ From the comments, it's the memory rank - not the number of slots - that impacts performance. I'll dig into that deeper when I restart my new build.

Which almost happened today. The Newegg shuffle showed up with an ASUS ROG-STRIX-RTX3060TI-O8G-V2 GPU and ASUS TUF Gaming VG27AQ monitor combo for $1,014.

The card itself was $679, but well below the $1,000+ prices I was seeing elsewhere. It's also a slightly more expensive variation of the EVGA card.

It just so happens that one of my two LG 30" monitors suddenly decided to turn a shade of green part-way across the screen. Great timing, so I entered the shuffle as soon as it opened. Point, click, done. Or so I thought.

I researched the monitor. Looked Good. Then, I looked at the GPU card specs. The length exceeded the maximum allowable for my case by 3.5 mm. :shock:

My current case selection is what I have now - Fractal Designs Meshify C. I really like the Fractal Design case and changed my case to the Mesh 2. It's $30 more, but it will work with my GPU.

Unfortunately, I was not selected in the shuffle and will wait for the next one. Maybe. I wanted to post about this because you need to be careful about blindly buying a GPU and discovering after the fact that it won't fit in your case (or it needs a larger power supply). The EVGA card easily fit in the Meshify C case. Not so for the ASUS card.

I'm now looking for two new monitors. Both of my 30" LG monitors were purchased at the same time, so the one I'm using now is also on borrowed time.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:39 pm ^^^ From the comments, it's the memory rank - not the number of slots - that impacts performance. I'll dig into that deeper when I restart my new build.
Yep, apparently you want single-rank memory, but also populated across 4 slots. Which is what I have now :happy

Video card prices since cryptomining has taken off have been giving me heartburn. Unfortunately, demand has soared because instead of costing money, GPUs now create passive income so miners snatch them up at any price. So the card prices just keep moving into the stratosphere and GPU speculators/scalpers snatch them up ASAP and put them back up for sale at hugely inflated prices.

Bad news bears if you want to play video games or use a GPU for rendering/creative projects. My 1080ti at least is powerful enough for the near future, but I know a lot of people that desperately need an upgrade or replacement and can't get a decent card for a reasonable price outside of what you're doing... which isn't a very reliable way to get something, as you've discovered.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

So... as Alder Lake (and the DDR5 era) approaches, I wonder if we should start a new thread, or continue this one. Or maybe instead of basing it on hardware generation, we should hold onto this discussion as the Covid shortage era, and start a new discussion when supplies normalize and only speak of this one in hushed tones while making warding signs against evil.

Anyway, Alder Lake looks genuinely good - easily the best Intel offering in years, and hopefully the start of a new era of competition. I'm not at all surprised that AMD jacked up their prices during the generation when Intel had nothing competitive; an unusually aggressive offering from Intel is a really good sign. Early leaks show Alder Lake beating Zen 3 - not surprising given that it's coming out a full year later, but each company leapfrogging each other with every release would be the best possible outcome for consumers, especially after the shortages and price inflation the last two years.

Add to this the forthcoming Intel Arc GPUs, I'm guardedly optimistic that we might finally have decent supplies and competition in 2022.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

By member request, the discussion on my search for a new monitor has been moved into a new thread. See: [Computer monitor for photo editing, some gaming]
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

My rig has only been in its current form for barely a month, and I already want to start an entirely new ITX build in the Lian Li Q58.

I'm watching and re-watching a teardown video now, mentally planning radiator setup for a custom loop. It makes absolutely no sense to start now, but I'm going to start budgeting for an absolutely bonkers $3,000 SFF build in 2023 or so - not because I want or need the power, but just because I want to build an overpowered liquid-cooled system in a tiny case. It doesn't even make sense to flip it on craigslist, as the market for this kind of system would be quite limited.

I'm going to have to make peace with the fact that I'm no longer thinking about PC builds for gaming (the games I play don't need that kind of horsepower), but instead just because I enjoy building them. It's a lot like building furniture as a hobby - maybe they can sell some pieces at a profit, but mostly, the people I've met who do it just like building them.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

One of my early builds used a Lian Li case. It was quite good at that time.

I'm also rethinking the intent of my new build. It's not so much for gaming, but horsepower to run folding@home and edit photos. Not to mention throwing in a few online chess games.

It's why I expressed frustration at my (now returned) monitors. I couldn't take the poor quality.

BTW, the chess engine used by my online chess site lichess.org is running client side processing. So, more horsepower for my browser. Here's the details: Stockfish 13 NNUE on Lichess

Background info: Fast, parallel applications with WebAssembly SIMD and note that it's enabled by default in Chrome 91+, experimental in FireFox.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

For those using AMD Ryzen processors, are you using AMD Ryzen™ Master Utility for Overclocking Control | AMD to manage your configuration or are there other recommended toolsets?

FWIW, an update on my machine.
Peculiar_Investor wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:46 am Back in August I did exactly that, replacing an aging Dell Vostro 430 desktop that had an Intel i7 processor, Samsung 860 EVO SSD and NVidia 1050Ti video card. For most applications and workflow the Dell was powerful enough, but it was time for a new PC, particularly for photo editing (Lightroom Classic).

I used The Ultimate PC Build for Photography Needs and Photoshop CPU performance: Intel Core X-10000 vs AMD Threadripper 3rd Gen among others for reviews and ideas for my new build.

My new build is:
  • Fractal Design Focus G mid-tower case
  • AMD Ryzen 5 3600 processor
  • Vengeance LPX 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz CL16 Dual Channel Kit (2x16GB)
  • Samsung 970 EVO Plus MVME M2 SSD (1 TB)
  • Gigabyte X570 AORUS ELITE motherboard
  • Asus GTX1660S OC video card
  • Corsair RMx Series RM650x 80+ power supply
I don't play any games but wanted to maintain future component upgrade paths, so there were some cost compromises made, particularly because Canadian hardware prices are generally higher than US prices, even after accounting for the CAD-USD exchange rate.
For no other reason than because I could, did my first CPU upgrade/replacement, now running:
  • AMD Ryzen 5 5600x processor
  • Samsung 980 PRO SSD (1 TB)
Also downloaded and installed AMD Ryzen™ Master Utility for Overclocking Control | AMD and applied the Creator Mode profile.

System definitely quicker and more responsive.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

I just put the settings directly in the BIOS. I don't think Ryzen Master Creator Mode does anything until you activate PBO, Auto Overclocking or Manual settings.

Before overclocking, make sure you have a good cooler because the stock one is pretty bad.

On the Zen 3 5000 series, there's a new feature in the BIOS called Curve Optimizer which allows you to undervolt the CPU. This will allow you to reach a higher clock speed at a lower voltage, which in turn means less power and heat. My 5600X with an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm water cooler is stable with a Curve Optimizer of negative 25.

The other main feature is Precision Boost Overdrive which automatically boosts individual cores of the CPU depending on the usage, up to certain power limits, and also depending on the temps. I have raised the PBO limits on my 5600X to: PPT 128W, TDC 80A, EDC 125A, which allows all of the cores to boost to 4.65GHz at the same time even when running a full multi-core workload like Cinebench or video encoding. At stock PBO settings with a multi-core load, you will hit one of the power limits and the cores will have to reduce their boost speed.

You can also use Auto Overclocking to raise the maximum boost clock, but my 5600X was only stable up to +50Mhz (4.7GHz) so I didn't bother.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

Oh my God... the legends were true! It really exists, and it's every bit as gloriously brown as I'd hoped:

ASUS Noctua 3070

More seriously, I wouldn't buy these - not because of the brown color, but because (1) MSRP is over $1,000, and (2) it takes up 4 slots, plus the thickness of the fan, and (3) I've committed to watercooling all the things. I'm actually already in the process of replacing all of my case fans with Noctua Brown, so I'd have loved this if I were still air cooling and it were a non-stupid price.

And I'm definitely buying the Noctua desk fan once it's available in Q2 2022.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Volando »

Independent George wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:36 am Oh my God... the legends were true! It really exists, and it's every bit as gloriously brown as I'd hoped:

ASUS Noctua 3070

More seriously, I wouldn't buy these - not because of the brown color, but because (1) MSRP is over $1,000, and (2) it takes up 4 slots, plus the thickness of the fan, and (3) I've committed to watercooling all the things. I'm actually already in the process of replacing all of my case fans with Noctua Brown, so I'd have loved this if I were still air cooling and it were a non-stupid price.

And I'm definitely buying the Noctua desk fan once it's available in Q2 2022.
Saw that the other day as well. Curious to see how it performs. Itd be great if there was more support for after market GPU cooling besides water cooling. I was able to snag a EVGA 3080 XC3 ultra awhile ago. It’s a great card but the cooling solution they use isn’t quite as good as I’d like. It’d be neat to do a mod with noctua fans but I’m too much of a coward to try :D (plus I’d rather not give up my warranty to gain a little better cooling)
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

Volando wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:23 pm Saw that the other day as well. Curious to see how it performs. Itd be great if there was more support for after market GPU cooling besides water cooling. I was able to snag a EVGA 3080 XC3 ultra awhile ago. It’s a great card but the cooling solution they use isn’t quite as good as I’d like. It’d be neat to do a mod with noctua fans but I’m too much of a coward to try :D (plus I’d rather not give up my warranty to gain a little better cooling)
The main benefits to Noctua are more about noise and durability than cooling; you can make most chips run cooler just by spinning the fans up more. Noctuas are generally quieter than competing fans at equal RPMs, and cooler at equal dB. Most GPUs have lousy fans as a cost-savings. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed they just went with NF-A12x25 rather than either a custom solution, or the thinner x15 fans. I'm curious how it performs, but this seems more like just throwing a brand name product onto their card rather than an attempt to engineer it fit a more common form factor. I do love that they embraced the Noctua Brown, though.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Volando »

Independent George wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:35 pm
Volando wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:23 pm Saw that the other day as well. Curious to see how it performs. Itd be great if there was more support for after market GPU cooling besides water cooling. I was able to snag a EVGA 3080 XC3 ultra awhile ago. It’s a great card but the cooling solution they use isn’t quite as good as I’d like. It’d be neat to do a mod with noctua fans but I’m too much of a coward to try :D (plus I’d rather not give up my warranty to gain a little better cooling)
The main benefits to Noctua are more about noise and durability than cooling; you can make most chips run cooler just by spinning the fans up more. Noctuas are generally quieter than competing fans at equal RPMs, and cooler at equal dB. Most GPUs have lousy fans as a cost-savings. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed they just went with NF-A12x25 rather than either a custom solution, or the thinner x15 fans. I'm curious how it performs, but this seems more like just throwing a brand name product onto their card rather than an attempt to engineer it fit a more common form factor. I do love that they embraced the Noctua Brown, though.
I agree about the benefits, I should have clarified in my post. When I mentioned the cooling solution wasn’t as good as I’d like I also meant that they produced significantly more sound than I’d like while also not cooling as well as I’d like. Since airflow wasn’t a problem my solution was to undervolt the card which works really nicely in the 30xx series.

It does seem a little like throwing on a brand name product. I kind of hope they’re just testing the waters to see what openings they can make into the market which would hopefully lead to a more tailored product. But probably it’ll be a temporary collaboration.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

Volando wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:23 pm Saw that the other day as well. Curious to see how it performs. Itd be great if there was more support for after market GPU cooling besides water cooling. I was able to snag a EVGA 3080 XC3 ultra awhile ago. It’s a great card but the cooling solution they use isn’t quite as good as I’d like. It’d be neat to do a mod with noctua fans but I’m too much of a coward to try :D (plus I’d rather not give up my warranty to gain a little better cooling)
If you have the space, you could try placing some extra fans under the GPU on a PCI slot bracket like this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N3T1GJP/

My old SAMA IM01 Micro ATX case actually already had fan mounts on the bottom so I didn't need a PCI slot bracket, pictures here: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/mG4nTW

They did reduce temps by around 5C so the GPU fans could spin slower. Also, EVGA fans spin in the opposite direction so that probably helps as well.

I'm using a Cooler Master NR400 Micro ATX case now because I had to upgrade to a full-size 1000W ATX PSU, but there isn't any room for fans under the GPU, so it's now running a few degrees hotter. However I did cut a piece of cardboard to block off the PSU shroud and divert air from the bottom front case fan under the GPU, and it did actually help a bit.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

Independent George wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:36 am Oh my God... the legends were true! It really exists, and it's every bit as gloriously brown as I'd hoped:

ASUS Noctua 3070

More seriously, I wouldn't buy these - not because of the brown color, but because (1) MSRP is over $1,000, and (2) it takes up 4 slots, plus the thickness of the fan, and (3) I've committed to watercooling all the things. I'm actually already in the process of replacing all of my case fans with Noctua Brown, so I'd have loved this if I were still air cooling and it were a non-stupid price.

And I'm definitely buying the Noctua desk fan once it's available in Q2 2022.
My 1080ti has had a Noctua cooler for awhile now... :P
(That's a Noctua slim fan for the board and a Noctua Redux for the GPU on the radiator)

Image
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

So... this guy was inspired to 3d-print a mounting bracket to fit a couple NF-A12x25's onto a 3060, and yes, it's much, much quieter. Keep in mind that's with the original heat pipes/cooling fins, which are definitely not designed for the dual 120mm fans.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

Overclocker and engineer derBauer got his hands on one and:

1. As far as he could tell, they made minimal changes changes to the heatsink, and just mounted a couple of NF-A12x25 fans on top of the standard TUF Gaming card.
2. Maximum noise of 33 dBA (compared ~50 dBA for a conventionally cooled models).

Full review and teardown here.

I still think it's a bit of a lazy design, and the price is still ridiculous, but that is a genuinely impressive noise and temperature reduction. And while I'm not using those slots on my ATX case, I'm still curious what they could have done with the slimmer NF-A12x15 fans, or maybe three NF-A9x14 fans. Nevertheless, if you're noise sensitive and don't want to go through the trouble of water cooling, this is probably a very good card for you.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Following, but won't go that route... I just won the lottery!!! OK, it's just the Newegg Shuffle but feels just as exciting.

For the past month or so, I've been entering the Newegg shuffle on a daily basis. No luck. The supply chain must be in overload, as I was watching the offerings go from single cards to combo deals. They were limiting the selection to keep the demand down. Not a good sign.

It got to the point where I was selecting any GeForce RTX 3060 Ti card that showed up. After much frustration at not getting selected, I decided to bite the bullet and simply pay the market price on Monday. Today, the very last day I entered the Newegg Shuffle, I got selected. :beer

Now, I have to calm down, figure out what I just bought, and build a system around it. :D

It's the MSI Ventus GeForce RTX 3060 Ti, OC (Overclock), 8 GB, Lite Hash Rate limited (no crypto mining) for $659.99. The current market price is $859.00. The MSI website is showing $649.99 (out of stock), so the Newegg price seems reasonable.

This is the first time I've purchased a GPU this large. I'm not used to 3 fans. The card won't fit in a Fractal Design Meshify C case (what I have now), but it will fit in the Meshify 2 Compact. The GPU is 316 mm in length.

I am now proceeding to complete my spreadsheet, double-check everything, then commit to the build. The CPU will be Ryzen 7 5800X.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by flyingcows »

Has anyone with the 3080 ti played Cyberpunk at 4k? If so, please share your experience :), I’m considering buying it just to do another play through, but connected to my LG C9 OLED which supports 4k 120hz
This content is for entertainment purposes only
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:17 pm ^^^ Following, but won't go that route... I just won the lottery!!! OK, it's just the Newegg Shuffle but feels just as exciting.

For the past month or so, I've been entering the Newegg shuffle on a daily basis. No luck. The supply chain must be in overload, as I was watching the offerings go from single cards to combo deals. They were limiting the selection to keep the demand down. Not a good sign.

It got to the point where I was selecting any GeForce RTX 3060 Ti card that showed up. After much frustration at not getting selected, I decided to bite the bullet and simply pay the market price on Monday. Today, the very last day I entered the Newegg Shuffle, I got selected. :beer

Now, I have to calm down, figure out what I just bought, and build a system around it. :D
Woooo!!! Congratulations! I've never known a lottery winner before!

Does the LHR affect folding power?
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

No. I did a search on that earlier, like last month. :)

My exasperation over the GPU hit a breaking point when I finally got my replacement monitors Re: [Computer monitor for photo editing, some gaming]. Have monitor, might as well put it to good use.

I forgot to mention that the Newegg purchase has a "Return for replacement only" return policy. No refunds.
flyingcows wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:22 pm Has anyone with the 3080 ti played Cyberpunk at 4k? If so, please share your experience :), I’m considering buying it just to do another play through, but connected to my LG C9 OLED which supports 4k 120hz
I don't have a 3080 ti and I don't play Cyberpunk. However, I have a 65" LG CX OLED for my home theater - the next version after the C9. I just wanted to ask if you've "calibrated" your C9 for gaming. You can find a lot of suggestions at LG C9 OLED Review - RTINGS.com. AVS forum would be another good place to look. Here's the thread: 2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by tortoise84 »

Great! Now the fun part begins! :D The Meshify C says max GPU 315 mm with front fan mounted so if you want to keep the same case you could use a 15 mm slim fan which will give you an extra 10 mm.

A 3060 Ti for $660 is still a bit pricey but you could also sell your old GPU at an elevated price to help recoup some of the cost.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by brad.clarkston »

tortoise84 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:53 pm Great! Now the fun part begins! :D The Meshify C says max GPU 315 mm with front fan mounted so if you want to keep the same case you could use a 15 mm slim fan which will give you an extra 10 mm.

A 3060 Ti for $660 is still a bit pricey but you could also sell your old GPU at an elevated price to help recoup some of the cost.
A 3060 TI is currently going for $880 to $1200 right now on Amazon or Newegg anything in the $600 range is a bargain.
You can not go by MSR or prices from 3 years ago in this crazy chip shortage lalaland time.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Tyler9000 »

Independent George wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:36 am Oh my God... the legends were true! It really exists, and it's every bit as gloriously brown as I'd hoped:

ASUS Noctua 3070

More seriously, I wouldn't buy these - not because of the brown color, but because (1) MSRP is over $1,000, and (2) it takes up 4 slots, plus the thickness of the fan, and (3) I've committed to watercooling all the things. I'm actually already in the process of replacing all of my case fans with Noctua Brown, so I'd have loved this if I were still air cooling and it were a non-stupid price.

OMG. As a fan of silent builds who loves Noctua fans and has been eyeing an Nvidia 3070 upgrade for a while, this is a complete no-brainer. :mrgreen:

Now for the drawn-out experience of trying to actually acquire one. I look forward to the day when GPUs are widely available again.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

brad.clarkston wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:07 pm A 3060 TI is currently going for $880 to $1200 right now on Amazon or Newegg anything in the $600 range is a bargain.
You can not go by MSR or prices from 3 years ago in this crazy chip shortage lalaland time.
Exactly.
tortoise84 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:53 pm Great! Now the fun part begins! :D The Meshify C says max GPU 315 mm with front fan mounted so if you want to keep the same case you could use a 15 mm slim fan which will give you an extra 10 mm.

A 3060 Ti for $660 is still a bit pricey but you could also sell your old GPU at an elevated price to help recoup some of the cost.
Yes, the fun begins. Last month, I updated my PC build spreadsheet for different GPU card lengths. Whatever I ended up with, I had a path forward. Doing that initial legwork kept me from panicking when the "random GPU card of the day" decided to show up.

My intent here is to have 2 working PCs. I won't be selling my old RTX 2060 Super GPU card.

I'll take a look at the 15 mm slim fan, but fan noise and thermal dissipation are important. If it cuts things close, I'll go with the larger case.

Right now, I'm looking at memory configuration. First, no overclocking. It got me in hot water with the first build. I'll be more conservative this time around. Whatever I pick will be on the approved QVL (Qualified Vendor List).

Second, I'm looking at the number of ranks. Based on kevinf's comments in this post, it might be better to use all 4 slots as (8 GB x 4) configuration vs. (16 GB x 2).

Believe it or not, in a few days it will be exactly one year since I built my first PC using the info in this very thread. (Not my first build ever, but the first build after a long pause over several years.)

Update: Here's a good explanation: Ryzen 5000 Memory Performance Guide | TechSpot I might take a look at the 3600 MHz memory. Maybe.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by brad.clarkston »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:37 pm
brad.clarkston wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:07 pm A 3060 TI is currently going for $880 to $1200 right now on Amazon or Newegg anything in the $600 range is a bargain.
You can not go by MSR or prices from 3 years ago in this crazy chip shortage lalaland time.
Exactly.
tortoise84 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:53 pm Great! Now the fun part begins! :D The Meshify C says max GPU 315 mm with front fan mounted so if you want to keep the same case you could use a 15 mm slim fan which will give you an extra 10 mm.

A 3060 Ti for $660 is still a bit pricey but you could also sell your old GPU at an elevated price to help recoup some of the cost.
Yes, the fun begins. Last month, I updated my PC build spreadsheet for different GPU card lengths. Whatever I ended up with, I had a path forward. Doing that initial legwork kept me from panicking when the "random GPU card of the day" decided to show up.

My intent here is to have 2 working PCs. I won't be selling my old RTX 2060 Super GPU card.

I'll take a look at the 15 mm slim fan, but fan noise and thermal dissipation are important. If it cuts things close, I'll go with the larger case.

Right now, I'm looking at memory configuration. First, no overclocking. It got me in hot water with the first build. I'll be more conservative this time around. Whatever I pick will be on the approved QVL (Qualified Vendor List).

Second, I'm looking at the number of ranks. Based on kevinf's comments in this post, it might be better to use all 4 slots as (8 GB x 4) configuration vs. (16 GB x 2).

Believe it or not, in a few days it will be exactly one year since I built my first PC using the info in this very thread. (Not my first build ever, but the first build after a long pause over several years.)

Update: Here's a good explanation: Ryzen 5000 Memory Performance Guide | TechSpot I might take a look at the 3600 MHz memory. Maybe.
Dual 3600 would be good in CL16, just make sure the timings isn't something crazy like "16-20-20-38" vs "16-16-16-36" the extra $40 you pay for the second is well worth the money. Glade to know you get the QVL importance that's 90% of the "my ram is to slow!" comments on r/pcmasterrace
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

What do you mean by "Dual 3600"? Dual channel, dual rank, or both? I'm looking at 8 GB x 4 (32 MB).

My build last year is DDR4-3600MHz CL16-19-19-39 1.35V (16 GB x 2) - what you said to avoid. :) I ended up increasing the DRAM voltage to 1.35 V and replacing the motherboard under warranty. Frustrating, but it's been working since January. No issues since then.

I'm looking at the same motherboard ASUS AM4 TUF Gaming X570-Plus for this build.

The above is for 3600 MHz, but I would still consider 3200 MHz if it avoids the overclocking problems.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by kevinf »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:17 pm ^^^ Following, but won't go that route... I just won the lottery!!! OK, it's just the Newegg Shuffle but feels just as exciting...

This is the first time I've purchased a GPU this large. I'm not used to 3 fans. The card won't fit in a Fractal Design Meshify C case (what I have now), but it will fit in the Meshify 2 Compact. The GPU is 316 mm in length...
If you are feeling a little bold, you can grab an NZXT AIO adapter plate for $30. Most of the excess card length is actually the fan housing and once the cooling shroud is off the card is usually substantially shorter. Attach one of the compatible AIO watercoolers and mount it on the front or top of your case. Better temps, less noise, less space. I used small stick-on heatsinks for the components that were no longer in contact with the heat spreaders (anything that has a pad above it on the cooling shroud should have a heatsink in place).

I'm eyeing up a hybrid GPU when prices come down from the stratosphere so I don't have to roll my own again. I'd appreciate the cleaner look of OEM, the aftermarket solution I used is a little messier.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

kevinf wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:07 pm
If you are feeling a little bold, you can grab an NZXT AIO adapter plate for $30. Most of the excess card length is actually the fan housing and once the cooling shroud is off the card is usually substantially shorter. Attach one of the compatible AIO watercoolers and mount it on the front or top of your case. Better temps, less noise, less space. I used small stick-on heatsinks for the components that were no longer in contact with the heat spreaders (anything that has a pad above it on the cooling shroud should have a heatsink in place).

I'm eyeing up a hybrid GPU when prices come down from the stratosphere so I don't have to roll my own again. I'd appreciate the cleaner look of OEM, the aftermarket solution I used is a little messier.
Reading the product page, it looks like the Kraken is not compatible with the 30 series.
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Interesting suggestion, but I prefer air cooling. In any case, nothing this drastic will happen until the GPU is past it's 30 day return period or later - give it at least a few months. Never say never, however.

Back to memory, I've selected an (8 GB x 4) 3200 MHz configuration with G.Skill. Why G.Skill? I like the look and love the "Ripjaws" name and logo.

The Ryzen 7 5800x maximum supported (not overclocked) frequency is 3200 MHz.

My choice is the F4-3200C16Q-32GVKB DDR4-3200MHz (CL16-18-18-38 1.35V). It's on the Asus Qualified Vendor List. Newegg price: $191.78

Better performance is with the F4-3200C16Q-32GVK DDR4-3200MHz (CL16-16-16-36 1.35V). This part is not on the QVL. Newegg price: $349.00 That's a huge price increase and doesn't seem worth it.
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And now for something completely different

Post by Second Round »

Consider building a desktop personal computer with a Raspberry Pi. It can be a very inexpensive backup, or for those looking for a real challenge, see if you can live within its (speed) limitations - it's sort of the tiny house of computers. I have learned a great deal in working with them, and those lessons have been valuable in terms of my main computers (which also run Linux).
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Re: PC Build Thread - 2020... and beyond!!!

Post by Independent George »

I have to admit, I've been tempted to pick up a 6700 XT from my local Microcenter, where they're regularly restocked and sell out slowly at $800. Of the cards that regularly appear there, they're easily the least overpriced (which is not high bar to clear), and I could probably sell my existing RX580 on eBay for $400 (leaving me with a reasonable net cost of $400). I just can't do it, though. Even if the math works out after selling my old card, I just can't bring myself to pay that much. I'd rather wait another 1-2 years, and hopefully experience an utterly ridiculous upgrade.

I found this video predicting a collapse sometime late next year due to a crypto bust informative and convincing.
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