Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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stoptothink
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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ResearchMed wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:22 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:13 am Growing up (in the mid-late 80's) my mom drove a VW bus as it was the only thing she could afford that could comfortably seat 5 kids. My grandfather lived at the top of a short (maybe 1/4 mile up), but fairly steep hill; whenever we visited we did not even attempt to park at his home. Parked at the bottom of the hill and walked up.
My VW bus was mid-1960's, a true hippie-van. So I'm guessing there was less power (less everything? :happy ).
If I remember correctly, my mom's bus was a '66 so it is unlikely yours had less power. Some fun times in that thing. We had a hole that went from the engine bay to inside the car (feet of the passengers in the back). We'd stick a blanket there to block it, but on longer trips we'd wrap frozen burritos and the like in that blanket to cook them.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by willthrill81 »

WhyNotUs wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:22 pm I am looking at Renogy solar suitcase for my boondocking this year to charge my golf cart batteries. I do not like running the gennie and tend to be in one place for 2-3 days.
Solar is nice, but you need to be fully aware of the limitations. Under optimal conditions (i.e., bright sunshine in the summer, zero shade, panels kept at proper angle to the sun) and with a comparatively expensive MPPT charge controller, it would take at least 8 hours for 200 watts of solar panels to charge a pair of golf cart batteries from a 50% state of charge to 100%.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:00 pm
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:19 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:33 pm
Wanderingwheelz wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:22 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:52 pm

The latest LTV Unity comes standard with dual AGM batteries but has the option for lithium-ion batteries, but they are really overpriced, and many say that it's much cheaper to swap them out yourself. They also have a 400 watt solar option for $3k, which is also very overpriced but definitely harder, maybe impossible, to DIY and keep the warranty intact.

However, things will likely change a lot between now and when I plan to retire in ~12 years. Right now at least, we don't like to just park in one space for days at a time, and running the chassis engine is more than adequate to charge the coach batteries. Still, one of the first projects for our Trend will be an attempt to replace the single FLA battery with two GC2 batteries; I'm just not sure if they'll fit.
I was wondering what you planned to do about the power system on the Trend since it didn’t sound sound like you were planning on hopping from 30 amp pole to 30 amp pole.

Probably the #1 mistake I see new RV owners make is with the power system. Not just under powering either. Just as often it’s over powering. Probably 4 out of 5 Travato lithium buyers would be far better off keeping the money in their pocket and going with the standard model. Maybe even 9 out of 10. We’ve been gone 10 days and haven’t plugged in once, nor have we run the generator a single time. People can sure find great ways to waste $25 large.
Well not to toot my own horn, but I know my way around batteries. I created this thread to help people understand how to create home battery backup systems, for instance.

In many of the places we'll be staying (e.g., high elevation), we'll need to run the furnace, and in addition to using a lot of propane, 12 volt furnaces can also use a lot of power, easily 6-8 amps while running. We know from experience that that can largely drain a single battery in just one cold night. Also, using more than 50% of a lead acid battery's capacity can result in premature failure of the battery, something we wish to avoid. And golf cart batteries are more durable than most other batteries since they are designed to be operated in golf carts bouncing over rough terrain with sudden starts and stops and driven by half-drunks. And the cost of two GC2 batteries is only about $150. In no way would I use lithium batteries at current prices unless we were full-timing. I'm not interested in solar panels either for the same reason.

When we rented our motor home last year, we ran the generator many evenings for an hour or so to cool down the unit via the AC and then shut it off during quiet hours. We did the same at several times when we stopped for lunch during the day as well. And one night in a Cracker Barrel parking lot, we ran the generator all night long in order to run the AC since it was quite warm. Yes, we're spoiled to cool temps, especially at night, but as they say, 'happy wife, happy life'! :D
I’ve never owned an RV with a furnace since our Travato is our first one. The Truma sips propane at such a remarkably low level it’s scary, and with the generous insulation that the 2019 and more recent years come with standard, it’s doesn’t run very hard, and doesn’t runs at all u less it’s in the low 50s. RVs have come a long way, as long as you don’t buy an entry level one, I guess.

We spent the night last night at Cracker Barrel. :)
I've heard only rave reviews about the Truma furnace. It does seem to be significantly more efficient than standard RV furnaces, both in propane and electrical consumption.

Just so you know, the lingo among RVers is 'Crack-docking'! :P
We tend not to to stay at Cracker Barrel very often. Certain places, though, it is one of the better options, if not the only freebie as in Asheville, NC for example (even though it’s technically not RV friendly, we’ve never been told no). Although, there are some little-known remote primitive National Forest campsites off Rt 40 outside of Asheville, but I digress.

So far, we’ve been very happy with the Truma. It gave us an error code once in Acadia when we ran the heater and the hot water at the same time, but other than that it’s been 100% invisible. I haven’t seen any systemic problems reported with it on TOWB, either.

Regardless, the ducted heat does make for a comfortable environment in wintertime camping. Especially when showering.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy

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willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:20 pm
mkc wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:10 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:31 pm
We really liked the Travatos, but they just didn't work for what we needed and wanted to spend. If we still want a motor home by the time I retire, I really think that we'll bite the bullet and get something like a Leisure Travel Van Unity MB, which they are now putting on the Ford diesel chassis.
Technically, that's the Wonder on the Ford Transit chassis. The Unity is still on the MB Sprinter one. (We have an LTV Unity CB)
Good catch.
If you intend to have a toad (car towed behind the coach), be sure to understand the GVWR and towing capacity differences between the 2 models. Most Unity models have about 4K lbs left of GCWR for towing, which gives you a few options. The Wonder is limited to either 2000 or 3000 lbs, which basically means an old Geo Tracker or a Smart is about the heaviest you can go.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy

Post by willthrill81 »

mkc wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:20 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:20 pm
mkc wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:10 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:31 pm
We really liked the Travatos, but they just didn't work for what we needed and wanted to spend. If we still want a motor home by the time I retire, I really think that we'll bite the bullet and get something like a Leisure Travel Van Unity MB, which they are now putting on the Ford diesel chassis.
Technically, that's the Wonder on the Ford Transit chassis. The Unity is still on the MB Sprinter one. (We have an LTV Unity CB)
Good catch.
If you intend to have a toad (car towed behind the coach), be sure to understand the GVWR and towing capacity differences between the 2 models. Most Unity models have about 4K lbs left of GCWR for towing, which gives you a few options. The Wonder is limited to either 2000 or 3000 lbs, which basically means an old Geo Tracker or a Smart is about the heaviest you can go.
Yes, many of the B+ units have a really low towing capacity. The capacity of our Winnebago Trend is just 2k lbs., which isn't enough for much of anything, as you note. We have no intention of ever towing anything with it.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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stoptothink wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:51 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:22 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:13 am Growing up (in the mid-late 80's) my mom drove a VW bus as it was the only thing she could afford that could comfortably seat 5 kids. My grandfather lived at the top of a short (maybe 1/4 mile up), but fairly steep hill; whenever we visited we did not even attempt to park at his home. Parked at the bottom of the hill and walked up.
My VW bus was mid-1960's, a true hippie-van. So I'm guessing there was less power (less everything? :happy ).
If I remember correctly, my mom's bus was a '66 so it is unlikely yours had less power. Some fun times in that thing. We had a hole that went from the engine bay to inside the car (feet of the passengers in the back). We'd stick a blanket there to block it, but on longer trips we'd wrap frozen burritos and the like in that blanket to cook them.
We had three different VW buses when I was growing up in the late 60's and early 70s. Did you know that a VW bus is capable of hauling a family of six and two ponies at the same time? Those were the days.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by ResearchMed »

shunkman wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:58 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:51 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:22 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:13 am Growing up (in the mid-late 80's) my mom drove a VW bus as it was the only thing she could afford that could comfortably seat 5 kids. My grandfather lived at the top of a short (maybe 1/4 mile up), but fairly steep hill; whenever we visited we did not even attempt to park at his home. Parked at the bottom of the hill and walked up.
My VW bus was mid-1960's, a true hippie-van. So I'm guessing there was less power (less everything? :happy ).
If I remember correctly, my mom's bus was a '66 so it is unlikely yours had less power. Some fun times in that thing. We had a hole that went from the engine bay to inside the car (feet of the passengers in the back). We'd stick a blanket there to block it, but on longer trips we'd wrap frozen burritos and the like in that blanket to cook them.
We had three different VW buses when I was growing up in the late 60's and early 70s. Did you know that a VW bus is capable of hauling a family of six and two ponies at the same time? Those were the days.
NOW we find this out!
:wink:

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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured? Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured?
It beats me. It seems that they were discontinued after 2019. They are among the most popular used B+ models out there right now.
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
I don't know of one. The Winnebago Ekko has AWD instead of FWD but has dual wheels in the rear.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by tibbitts »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:50 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured?
It beats me. It seems that they were discontinued after 2019. They are among the most popular used B+ models out there right now.
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
I don't know of one. The Winnebago Ekko has AWD instead of FWD but has dual wheels in the rear.
It seems like more manufacturers would offer these given the shift to smaller RVs as mentioned earlier in this thread. Having RWD with dual rear wheels adds a lot of weight, increases exterior height, and decreases interior space. I would like to see even shorter (in length) models than yours. I know a lot of driveways where I live can accommodate 21ft or so but not (comfortably) longer.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by willthrill81 »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:16 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:50 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured?
It beats me. It seems that they were discontinued after 2019. They are among the most popular used B+ models out there right now.
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
I don't know of one. The Winnebago Ekko has AWD instead of FWD but has dual wheels in the rear.
It seems like more manufacturers would offer these given the shift to smaller RVs as mentioned earlier in this thread. Having RWD with dual rear wheels adds a lot of weight, increases exterior height, and decreases interior space. I would like to see even shorter (in length) models than yours. I know a lot of driveways where I live can accommodate 21ft or so but not (comfortably) longer.
For a 21 ft. or smaller unit, I think that you're almost entirely limited to the class B, van-body, units. Thor makes a 21' class C unit that Cruise America uses and which they sell regularly on the used market for $35-39k.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by tibbitts »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:30 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:16 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:50 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured?
It beats me. It seems that they were discontinued after 2019. They are among the most popular used B+ models out there right now.
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
I don't know of one. The Winnebago Ekko has AWD instead of FWD but has dual wheels in the rear.
It seems like more manufacturers would offer these given the shift to smaller RVs as mentioned earlier in this thread. Having RWD with dual rear wheels adds a lot of weight, increases exterior height, and decreases interior space. I would like to see even shorter (in length) models than yours. I know a lot of driveways where I live can accommodate 21ft or so but not (comfortably) longer.
For a 21 ft. or smaller unit, I think that you're almost entirely limited to the class B, van-body, units. Thor makes a 21' class C unit that Cruise America uses and which they sell regularly on the used market for $35-39k.
I believe other manufactures have made those too, also exclusively for the rental market, and in the last few years they seem to have gained cult status. I'm not sure they're still built (don't think they are) but were made on the E-350 SRW chassis with the old 5.4L (small) v8. A few years ago they were available used with low miles selling for around $30k; now you see ones with nearly 200k miles selling for closer to $40k or more.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by willthrill81 »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:44 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:30 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:16 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:50 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured?
It beats me. It seems that they were discontinued after 2019. They are among the most popular used B+ models out there right now.
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
I don't know of one. The Winnebago Ekko has AWD instead of FWD but has dual wheels in the rear.
It seems like more manufacturers would offer these given the shift to smaller RVs as mentioned earlier in this thread. Having RWD with dual rear wheels adds a lot of weight, increases exterior height, and decreases interior space. I would like to see even shorter (in length) models than yours. I know a lot of driveways where I live can accommodate 21ft or so but not (comfortably) longer.
For a 21 ft. or smaller unit, I think that you're almost entirely limited to the class B, van-body, units. Thor makes a 21' class C unit that Cruise America uses and which they sell regularly on the used market for $35-39k.
I believe other manufactures have made those too, also exclusively for the rental market, and in the last few years they seem to have gained cult status. I'm not sure they're still built (don't think they are) but were made on the E-350 SRW chassis with the old 5.4L (small) v8. A few years ago they were available used with low miles selling for around $30k; now you see ones with nearly 200k miles selling for closer to $40k or more.
Another option is to get something like Ford Transit with the high roof and either DIY the interior, get one of the motor home 'kits', or take it to a custom shop. After having run the numbers many times, I don't think that much money is saved with this over a prebuilt unit if you put in a real bathroom in it. And getting a Transit with a high roof can be really difficult itself right now because so many DIYers are buying them for this express purpose. I can't tell you how many of these we saw around Moab, UT, last September.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by tibbitts »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:51 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:44 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:30 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:16 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:50 pm

It beats me. It seems that they were discontinued after 2019. They are among the most popular used B+ models out there right now.



I don't know of one. The Winnebago Ekko has AWD instead of FWD but has dual wheels in the rear.
It seems like more manufacturers would offer these given the shift to smaller RVs as mentioned earlier in this thread. Having RWD with dual rear wheels adds a lot of weight, increases exterior height, and decreases interior space. I would like to see even shorter (in length) models than yours. I know a lot of driveways where I live can accommodate 21ft or so but not (comfortably) longer.
For a 21 ft. or smaller unit, I think that you're almost entirely limited to the class B, van-body, units. Thor makes a 21' class C unit that Cruise America uses and which they sell regularly on the used market for $35-39k.
I believe other manufactures have made those too, also exclusively for the rental market, and in the last few years they seem to have gained cult status. I'm not sure they're still built (don't think they are) but were made on the E-350 SRW chassis with the old 5.4L (small) v8. A few years ago they were available used with low miles selling for around $30k; now you see ones with nearly 200k miles selling for closer to $40k or more.
Another option is to get something like Ford Transit with the high roof and either DIY the interior, get one of the motor home 'kits', or take it to a custom shop. After having run the numbers many times, I don't think that much money is saved with this over a prebuilt unit if you put in a real bathroom in it. And getting a Transit with a high roof can be really difficult itself right now because so many DIYers are buying them for this express purpose. I can't tell you how many of these we saw around Moab, UT, last September.
Maybe the closest you can come with a new product on decent budget is a truck camper on a SRW truck, and with that you can get 4wd. But it's a foot taller or more, less aerodynamic, uses more gas (although from a larger tank), and has much less storage than your Trend.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by willthrill81 »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:21 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:51 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:44 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:30 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:16 pm
It seems like more manufacturers would offer these given the shift to smaller RVs as mentioned earlier in this thread. Having RWD with dual rear wheels adds a lot of weight, increases exterior height, and decreases interior space. I would like to see even shorter (in length) models than yours. I know a lot of driveways where I live can accommodate 21ft or so but not (comfortably) longer.
For a 21 ft. or smaller unit, I think that you're almost entirely limited to the class B, van-body, units. Thor makes a 21' class C unit that Cruise America uses and which they sell regularly on the used market for $35-39k.
I believe other manufactures have made those too, also exclusively for the rental market, and in the last few years they seem to have gained cult status. I'm not sure they're still built (don't think they are) but were made on the E-350 SRW chassis with the old 5.4L (small) v8. A few years ago they were available used with low miles selling for around $30k; now you see ones with nearly 200k miles selling for closer to $40k or more.
Another option is to get something like Ford Transit with the high roof and either DIY the interior, get one of the motor home 'kits', or take it to a custom shop. After having run the numbers many times, I don't think that much money is saved with this over a prebuilt unit if you put in a real bathroom in it. And getting a Transit with a high roof can be really difficult itself right now because so many DIYers are buying them for this express purpose. I can't tell you how many of these we saw around Moab, UT, last September.
Maybe the closest you can come with a new product on decent budget is a truck camper on a SRW truck, and with that you can get 4wd. But it's a foot taller or more, less aerodynamic, uses more gas (although from a larger tank), and has much less storage than your Trend.
And the price tag will be high for truck campers, relative to their available space, as well. They seem like the most overpriced type of RV on the non-custom market today. We did see a really cool one last year though that had three slide outs, but it was so heavy and long that it required a dually pickup. If you don't already own such a truck, then that option becomes extremely pricey, well above $100k for all new equipment.

Have you seen the Winnebago Solis? It has a roof that pops up to create the space for a queen bed with mesh wall sides, giving you two separate living quarters and a full, albeit wet, bath. Initially, they didn't have coach AC units, but that is now an option. Thor's Tellaro does the same thing, and so did the Hymer Aktiv (but Hymer is now bankrupt, IIRC).

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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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Where I live, $100k van conversions are everywhere. We had a van life expo here several years in a row and the rigs caught on big time. Anywhere with mountain biking and camping is full of them all weekends from March to November. Definitely caught me by surprise given the cost.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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Sort of, there are a few key assumptions about watts and capacity that go into that. The last 10% of the charge takes a lot of time. My calcs suggest that keeping my batteries between 50 and 90% will be easy. It is the same way that I would use a generator. Unless you have a need for a larger draw, it is not an issue. If you need a lot of juice, then a campground with hookups is best. The folks with the big travel trailers running their gennies all of the time are in the wrong place IMO but I know they feel differently.
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:54 pm
WhyNotUs wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:22 pm I am looking at Renogy solar suitcase for my boondocking this year to charge my golf cart batteries. I do not like running the gennie and tend to be in one place for 2-3 days.
Solar is nice, but you need to be fully aware of the limitations. Under optimal conditions (i.e., bright sunshine in the summer, zero shade, panels kept at proper angle to the sun) and with a comparatively expensive MPPT charge controller, it would take at least 8 hours for 200 watts of solar panels to charge a pair of golf cart batteries from a 50% state of charge to 100%.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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WhyNotUs wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:45 am Where I live, $100k van conversions are everywhere. We had a van life expo here several years in a row and the rigs caught on big time. Anywhere with mountain biking and camping is full of them all weekends from March to November. Definitely caught me by surprise given the cost.
DIY conversions? I see them on RV Trader all the time, and none are what I would call inexpensive. When we were in Zion last year, I hiked up to Angel's Landing (on the first day that the 'chain section' was reopened :D ) with a couple in their early 30s who had built one out very nicely themselves, quit the 'rat race' for about a year to do a huge RV trip, and were going to sell their rig and start having children afterward. He said that they had already gotten offers for well more than they put into it.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by mkc »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured? Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
If there were, they would likely be overweight on the rear axle. The dual rear wheels provide significant additional carrying capacity (which isn't to say that they have a lot of capacity, just that the weight of the "house" pretty much requires it).
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by willthrill81 »

WhyNotUs wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:54 am Sort of, there are a few key assumptions about watts and capacity that go into that. The last 10% of the charge takes a lot of time. My calcs suggest that keeping my batteries between 50 and 90% will be easy. It is the same way that I would use a generator. Unless you have a need for a larger draw, it is not an issue. If you need a lot of juice, then a campground with hookups is best. The folks with the big travel trailers running their gennies all of the time are in the wrong place IMO but I know they feel differently.
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:54 pm
WhyNotUs wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:22 pm I am looking at Renogy solar suitcase for my boondocking this year to charge my golf cart batteries. I do not like running the gennie and tend to be in one place for 2-3 days.
Solar is nice, but you need to be fully aware of the limitations. Under optimal conditions (i.e., bright sunshine in the summer, zero shade, panels kept at proper angle to the sun) and with a comparatively expensive MPPT charge controller, it would take at least 8 hours for 200 watts of solar panels to charge a pair of golf cart batteries from a 50% state of charge to 100%.
Yes, it can take as long to get a lead acid battery from 80% to 100% as it takes to get it from 0% to 80%. I was just using round numbers to illustrate the general point that it takes a long time for a couple of solar panels to recharge a battery under optimal conditions.

Much of the decision as to whether to go with solar on a motorhome also comes down to how you use the motorhome. For those that park in a single location for days at a time, don't use their generator much, and use their RV often (such as you seem to do), solar can be a great option. Conversely, those who move very often (which is us) and/or don't use their RV often, solar doesn't make as much sense; the engine on the motorhome should charge the coach battery very well, and even modest generator use will usually do it as well.

This video shows a gentleman who lives full-time in a small travel trailer that he pulls with his large SUV, and he has nearly 1,200 watts of solar panels between the two units. With that much solar, he can run his own window unit air conditioner without a generator.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by Lalamimi »

Thanks. Our TT is a 20118 - only used a few times, and purchased with no warranty from a Dealer. DH has already had to change out the brake pads, but we did feel better getting the warranty, at least for now. Allstate could not meet the National General quote, plus got more coverage. Never know about Insurance companies.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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Wow, I did not know there are small motor home boglehead fans here. Even LTV fans!

We just got a new 2021 LTV Wonder AWD. I am very sure we will enjoy it greatly.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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bluesky50 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:07 pm Wow, I did not know there are small motor home boglehead fans here. Even LTV fans!

We just got a new 2021 LTV Wonder AWD. I am very sure we will enjoy it greatly.
Congrats! Everything I've heard about the LTVs is that they are the best made stock RVs on the market. I'm sure that you'll thoroughly enjoy it!
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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mkc wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:07 am
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured? Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
If there were, they would likely be overweight on the rear axle. The dual rear wheels provide significant additional carrying capacity (which isn't to say that they have a lot of capacity, just that the weight of the "house" pretty much requires it).
Either the Trend was overweight or other manufactures could accomplish the same thing with the same chassis. I haven't verified it's still manufactured but if it is, they certainly could. And there's room to shorten the Trend by several feet, saving considerable weight. It's not unusual to see dual-rear-wheel trucks converted to single rear wheel for truck camper use, with no reduction in payload.
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willthrill81 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:32 pm And the price tag will be high for truck campers, relative to their available space, as well. They seem like the most overpriced type of RV on the non-custom market today. We did see a really cool one last year though that had three slide outs, but it was so heavy and long that it required a dually pickup. If you don't already own such a truck, then that option becomes extremely pricey, well above $100k for all new equipment.

Have you seen the Winnebago Solis? It has a roof that pops up to create the space for a queen bed with mesh wall sides, giving you two separate living quarters and a full, albeit wet, bath. Initially, they didn't have coach AC units, but that is now an option. Thor's Tellaro does the same thing, and so did the Hymer Aktiv (but Hymer is now bankrupt, IIRC).

Image
High-end truck campers are indeed very expensive, but a cheaper brand purchased new with matching new 4x4 truck can be had in the $80k range, so it's at least competitive with Bs. Lack of a built-in generator is one downside of the camper: the smaller ones don't have room for a generator, which is a pretty serious shortcoming. They don't have headroom matching the pop-up you mentioned, but often have 1-3 inches more than hard-top Bs, which may be significant.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured? Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
Lack of demand. Russ Garfin, said it himself.
Being wrong compounds forever.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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Wanderingwheelz wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:01 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:27 pm I wonder why the Trend is no longer manufactured? Are there any other full-body (vs. van-body) motorhomes with front-wheel-drive, gas engine, and single-rear-wheels.
Lack of demand. Russ Garfin, said it himself.
Really? That seems surprising given their popularity now. Any link to further explanation by him?
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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bluesky50 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:07 pm Wow, I did not know there are small motor home boglehead fans here. Even LTV fans!

We just got a new 2021 LTV Wonder AWD. I am very sure we will enjoy it greatly.
That is a sick van
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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bluesky50 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:07 pm Wow, I did not know there are small motor home boglehead fans here. Even LTV fans!

We just got a new 2021 LTV Wonder AWD. I am very sure we will enjoy it greatly.
Congrats! I love the Wonder and it was on our short list when we bought our Travato, but they were hard to get a hold of at the time and we didn't really want a diesel motorhome (which was the only option at the time). They have since changed from the Ford Transit diesel to the Ford Transit gas chassis.

Which floor plan did you get?
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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WhyNotUs wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:49 am
bluesky50 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:07 pm Wow, I did not know there are small motor home boglehead fans here. Even LTV fans!

We just got a new 2021 LTV Wonder AWD. I am very sure we will enjoy it greatly.
That is a sick van
How so?
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Post by WhyNotUs »

Sick as in cool,very impressive.

Drop down bed, lives like a 40' RV, All Wheel Drive, separate living room with dinette to function as office, glass in just the right places, etc.

bluesky50 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:04 pm
WhyNotUs wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:49 am
bluesky50 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:07 pm Wow, I did not know there are small motor home boglehead fans here. Even LTV fans!

We just got a new 2021 LTV Wonder AWD. I am very sure we will enjoy it greatly.
That is a sick van
How so?
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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WhyNotUs wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:03 am Sick as in cool,very impressive.

Drop down bed, lives like a 40' RV, All Wheel Drive, separate living room with dinette to function as office, glass in just the right places, etc.

bluesky50 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:04 pm
WhyNotUs wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:49 am
bluesky50 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:07 pm Wow, I did not know there are small motor home boglehead fans here. Even LTV fans!

We just got a new 2021 LTV Wonder AWD. I am very sure we will enjoy it greatly.
That is a sick van
How so?
The LTVs seem to have among the best resale value in the industry as well.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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WhyNotUs wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:03 am Sick as in cool,very impressive.

Drop down bed, lives like a 40' RV, All Wheel Drive, separate living room with dinette to function as office, glass in just the right places, etc.

bluesky50 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:04 pm
WhyNotUs wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:49 am
bluesky50 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:07 pm Wow, I did not know there are small motor home boglehead fans here. Even LTV fans!

We just got a new 2021 LTV Wonder AWD. I am very sure we will enjoy it greatly.
That is a sick van
How so?
Ahh, gotcha! We did a lot of research before we decided to buy a new Wonder.

@csm: We got Wonder RTB AWD.

@willthrill81: Congratulations for your new purchase of Trend! I am sure your family will enjoy it!
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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bluesky50 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:30 pm
@csm: We got Wonder RTB AWD.
Sweet! My favorite floor plan of the Wonders. I'm sure you will have many wonderful experiences with it.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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bluesky50 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:30 pm @willthrill81: Congratulations for your new purchase of Trend! I am sure your family will enjoy it!
Thanks! We're hoping to be able to fly to pick it up and drive it back home in a few weeks.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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I am going to turn my truck into a home!

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abuss368 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:14 pm I am going to turn my truck into a home!

Tony
Chris Farley's caution about living in a van down by the river has been turned on its head by the van lifers. Good luck in your truck
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WhyNotUs wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:19 pm
abuss368 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:14 pm I am going to turn my truck into a home!

Tony
Chris Farley's caution about living in a van down by the river has been turned on its head by the van lifers. Good luck in your truck
:sharebeer
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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I have three kids and would love to get a Class C for extended vacations and to host grandparents for extended stays at our house. I’m really hesitant to pull the trigger as so much of what I read indicates that the quality of the RV industry is universally pretty bad, including the expensive names. It doesn’t sound like the RV industry has anything even in the ballpark with the Toyotas and Hondas in the car realm. Any recommendations on quality brands that have class C products for sleeping minimum of 5 with minimum of 5 seat belts?
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Firemenot wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:11 pm I’m really hesitant to pull the trigger as so much of what I read indicates that the quality of the RV industry is universally pretty bad, including the expensive names. It doesn’t sound like the RV industry has anything even in the ballpark with the Toyotas and Hondas in the car realm. Any recommendations on quality brands that have class C products for sleeping minimum of 5 with minimum of 5 seat belts?
This is definitely the case. The dealership/sales model is also not at all like the automobile industry. With cars and light trucks, service is the bread and butter. In the RV industry, most dealers would rather not have to offer service and would rather just do sales. Most RV dealers won't do warranty work if you didn't buy the unit from them (and there is nothing in the dealership contract requiring it).

In terms of quality brands of C that can sleep that many, possibly consider a Renegade or Showhauler super C. As to seat belts, it is very difficult to find units that would have 5 forward-facing seating positions with seat belts (and typically only the front 2 seats have shoulder belts). Side-facing seats may have a belt, but that is not a safe seating position in a crash given the potential for neck trauma. It's a question that gets asked very frequently on the RV groups I follow, and there really isn't a good answer.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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Firemenot wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:11 pm I have three kids and would love to get a Class C for extended vacations and to host grandparents for extended stays at our house. I’m really hesitant to pull the trigger as so much of what I read indicates that the quality of the RV industry is universally pretty bad, including the expensive names. It doesn’t sound like the RV industry has anything even in the ballpark with the Toyotas and Hondas in the car realm. Any recommendations on quality brands that have class C products for sleeping minimum of 5 with minimum of 5 seat belts?
A difference in RVs vs. cars or trucks is that virtually all of them use the exact same models of components from the same manufacturers, everything from frames to appliances. When most people talk about quality they're talking about quality of the coach portion, to some extent things like cabinet quality, and especially things like water sealing. Frankly there are generally more seams in an RV, more places for water to leak, and at least some amount of material used in construction that can be damaged by water intrusion. With the exception of very high-end RV brands, there were only a handful of brands with somewhat more of a reputation for quality than others, and all of those that I knew of have gone out of business within the last five or ten years. Some other brands have been bought and are now manufactured by the same handful of companies that manufacture almost all commodity RVs. You just can't go into a purchase expecting not to have to deal with problems like drawers falling apart or plumbing leaks. If you're lucky you won't have design problems like plumbing drainage not designed properly. But I wouldn't say that's the biggest factor, or even an important one, in deciding whether to get an RV or not.

I'm not sure there are any Class Cs that would offer the occupant protection of a tow vehicle with a trailer attached, if that's a factor.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by Firemenot »

mkc wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:01 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:11 pm I’m really hesitant to pull the trigger as so much of what I read indicates that the quality of the RV industry is universally pretty bad, including the expensive names. It doesn’t sound like the RV industry has anything even in the ballpark with the Toyotas and Hondas in the car realm. Any recommendations on quality brands that have class C products for sleeping minimum of 5 with minimum of 5 seat belts?
This is definitely the case. The dealership/sales model is also not at all like the automobile industry. With cars and light trucks, service is the bread and butter. In the RV industry, most dealers would rather not have to offer service and would rather just do sales. Most RV dealers won't do warranty work if you didn't buy the unit from them (and there is nothing in the dealership contract requiring it).

In terms of quality brands of C that can sleep that many, possibly consider a Renegade or Showhauler super C. As to seat belts, it is very difficult to find units that would have 5 forward-facing seating positions with seat belts (and typically only the front 2 seats have shoulder belts). Side-facing seats may have a belt, but that is not a safe seating position in a crash given the potential for neck trauma. It's a question that gets asked very frequently on the RV groups I follow, and there really isn't a good answer.
Great tips. Tow vehicle just may be the way to go. Would feel horrible if having a motor home led to neck trauma for passengers outside of front seats that could have been avoided with a tow vehicle.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by willthrill81 »

Firemenot wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:31 pm
mkc wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:01 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:11 pm I’m really hesitant to pull the trigger as so much of what I read indicates that the quality of the RV industry is universally pretty bad, including the expensive names. It doesn’t sound like the RV industry has anything even in the ballpark with the Toyotas and Hondas in the car realm. Any recommendations on quality brands that have class C products for sleeping minimum of 5 with minimum of 5 seat belts?
This is definitely the case. The dealership/sales model is also not at all like the automobile industry. With cars and light trucks, service is the bread and butter. In the RV industry, most dealers would rather not have to offer service and would rather just do sales. Most RV dealers won't do warranty work if you didn't buy the unit from them (and there is nothing in the dealership contract requiring it).

In terms of quality brands of C that can sleep that many, possibly consider a Renegade or Showhauler super C. As to seat belts, it is very difficult to find units that would have 5 forward-facing seating positions with seat belts (and typically only the front 2 seats have shoulder belts). Side-facing seats may have a belt, but that is not a safe seating position in a crash given the potential for neck trauma. It's a question that gets asked very frequently on the RV groups I follow, and there really isn't a good answer.
Great tips. Tow vehicle just may be the way to go. Would feel horrible if having a motor home led to neck trauma for passengers outside of front seats that could have been avoided with a tow vehicle.
If accident safety is a major concern, then a towable RV is absolutely the way to go. I've not seen any motorhomes where five passengers can all sit facing forward, though it's possible that you could DIY a van with a second row bench seat that would do the trick. The space that would consume would almost certainly eliminate the possibility of a dedicated bathroom, but it seems that most DIY vans don't have bathrooms anyway.

Regarding the quality of RV builds, it seems to me that there are typically fewer problems with towable units than with motorhomes. A big reason is simple: towables don't have an engine or chassis to deal with. Roof leaks and faulty plumbing lines, both of which can lead to rotting of wooden components, seem to be the most common 'major' problems that crop up from time to time.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by willthrill81 »

Last week, my DW and I flew to go pick up our motor home just outside Chattanooga, and we drove it back to WA state, 2,400 miles in 58 hours. I drove all the way because my DW didn't want to drive in the hefty winds we encountered, and she wasn't as experienced in driving through the mild blizzard we went through in South Dakota. It drove through it all flawlessly.

We're thrilled with its condition. Everything in it works flawlessly, and as far as used motor homes go, it's very clean, though my DW's standards for cleanliness are very high, and it will take her a while to get it up to her standard.

I had to replace the 'house' batteries, which were six years old and clearly had significant sulfate present. The house batteries are accessed from underneath the coach though, and they weighed about 130 lbs., so dropping them straight down took a lot of time and grunt work on my part. I replaced them with equally heavy golf cart batteries of slightly larger capacity. I added built-in storage shelves to a large exterior storage compartment, changed the analog furnace thermostat to a digital one, changed the engine oil, washed it thoroughly (a 3 hr. job), and few other minor things. I'm shortly going to change the oil in the onboard generator, add a 12 volt socket in the coach that will be connected to the house batteries, replace the rubber connectors going from the waste tanks to the dump valve assembly, and add a spare tire carrier to the hitch receiver in the rear (I've learned that few motor homes come with spare tires anymore).

We've already planned several trips in it this year.

Thanks to everyone who provided me with advice! :beer
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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willthrill81 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:19 pm
I had to replace the 'house' batteries, which were six years old
How's the DOT date code on the tires? Hopefully fresher than that. One downside with motorhomes is that the tires age out well before the tread is worn.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by willthrill81 »

mkc wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:27 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:19 pm
I had to replace the 'house' batteries, which were six years old
How's the DOT date code on the tires? Hopefully fresher than that. One downside with motorhomes is that the tires age out well before the tread is worn.
The tires are Vanco Four Seasons by Continental made in the Czech Republic. There is no 4 digit numeric code after DOT, and I've looked high and low for that code but to no avail. The tread on them is still really good even though the unit has 24k miles on it, and there are no signs of dry rot. I'm perplexed.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by mkc »

willthrill81 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:59 pm
mkc wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:27 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:19 pm
I had to replace the 'house' batteries, which were six years old
How's the DOT date code on the tires? Hopefully fresher than that. One downside with motorhomes is that the tires age out well before the tread is worn.
The tires are Vanco Four Seasons by Continental made in the Czech Republic. There is no 4 digit numeric code after DOT, and I've looked high and low for that code but to no avail. The tread on them is still really good even though the unit has 24k miles on it, and there are no signs of dry rot. I'm perplexed.
The codes only have to be on one side of the tires, so could be on the inside sidewalls.

The general recommendation for RV tires is to have them inspected annually at 7 years, minimum, and never run longer than 10 years.

We always replace at the 7 year mark (even when we had our tag-axle diesel pusher where just a tire alone cost over $500). The cost/risk of damage/accident due to blowout outweighed the amortized tire cost per year. Since you don't know the history of those tires (have they ever been run underinflated for the weight of the vehicle, thus causing internal damage to the belts?), at least have $ budgeted for replacements in the next year or so.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

Post by willthrill81 »

mkc wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:39 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:59 pm
mkc wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:27 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:19 pm
I had to replace the 'house' batteries, which were six years old
How's the DOT date code on the tires? Hopefully fresher than that. One downside with motorhomes is that the tires age out well before the tread is worn.
The tires are Vanco Four Seasons by Continental made in the Czech Republic. There is no 4 digit numeric code after DOT, and I've looked high and low for that code but to no avail. The tread on them is still really good even though the unit has 24k miles on it, and there are no signs of dry rot. I'm perplexed.
The codes only have to be on one side of the tires, so could be on the inside sidewalls.

The general recommendation for RV tires is to have them inspected annually at 7 years, minimum, and never run longer than 10 years.

We always replace at the 7 year mark (even when we had our tag-axle diesel pusher where just a tire alone cost over $500). The cost/risk of damage/accident due to blowout outweighed the amortized tire cost per year. Since you don't know the history of those tires (have they ever been run underinflated for the weight of the vehicle, thus causing internal damage to the belts?), at least have $ budgeted for replacements in the next year or so.
Thanks for the advice. I'm assuming that the tires are as old as the chassis (2014) and hence plan on replacing them in a year or two. In the mean time, I'm keeping a close eye on them for any signs of distress.
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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Enjoy your travels! We also bought and RV and intend to explore and travel as a family. We went with a fiberglass travel trailer, I tell my wife if our marriage can survive backing up a trailer it is bullet proof!
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Re: Thought about buying a small motor home, but the market is crazy; Just bought one!!

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willthrill81 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:19 pm I added built-in storage shelves to a large exterior storage compartment, changed the analog furnace thermostat to a digital one, changed the engine oil, washed it thoroughly (a 3 hr. job), and few other minor things. I'm shortly going to change the oil in the onboard generator, add a 12 volt socket in the coach that will be connected to the house batteries, replace the rubber connectors going from the waste tanks to the dump valve assembly, and
If you are adding a 12v socket, I would do one with usb charge connectors built in. In our trailer, I stuck one next to the bed for charging phones at night.
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