How hard is it to get into college?

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Calico
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How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Calico »

I am really not sure if this is the right place to put this but if you think of colleges as selling and education, I suppose this works.

On another forum I belong to I mentioned something about trying to help my daughter be more realistic about grades and help her deal with the stress. She's stressed that she's currently not getting straight A's... but her grades are pretty much all A's and B's and last year, her freshman year, she got all A's. This year she has AP classes so things are harder. Weighted, even with the B's she's on track to have over a 4.0 GPA even if she "just" maintains her current grades. I want her to do the best she can, but I don't want her to burn out either.

Anyway, that topic slowly changed as people chimed in saying she was right and should be stressed that one needs all A's to get admitted to college. To me that seemed off to me because that's not what I see around me. Most of the people responding seemed to be from California (or at least they kept talking about how hard it is to get into UCLA or UC Berkley and Stanford). But that's not my state and it's off my radar and my daughter's radar. Perhaps there it's a different world so to speak.

I know the kids of other parents who are not "straight A students" and they all went off to college. They were good students, but not perfect. That was just three kids though, not a huge sample. In my daughter's band, at the last concert of the year, they called out all the senior names and what college they were going to. Again, all were going to college. I don't think they were all "straight A students" although I really don't know that for sure. I look at acceptance rates in my state/schools my daughter is interested in and they vary from 30% to 80% with most not having a perfect 4.0 GPA as the average GPA to get in.

Part of me wonders if this is all just hype or people looking at only the most selective schools. Or like I said, if this is more of a West Coast phenomena. My daughter wants to major in applied math, not exactly something that one needs to go to a prestigious university for (like someone who wants to go into politics might need for connections). She's talking about wanting to be a financial analyst, data scientist, even an actuary (I explained to her what one was and she thought it sounded interesting). She just likes crunching numbers.

Like I said, it seems like hype to me, but I am aware I could be totally wrong. I don't want to steer my daughter wrong by telling her not to worry so much, just to do her best. But it's been a long time since I've been in college and I really don't know the stories behind most of the kids I know who went to college. For those of you with kids who recently went to college or are going soon, what is your experience like with college admissions really like?

By the way, the reason I am asking here is because I think I will get a more balanced answered. Not to put down other forums, but this whole forum just seems to be a bit more thoughtful than other forums.
Last edited by Calico on Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KlangFool
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Re: How hard is it really to get into college?

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

1) It is not hard to get into college if you are not selective about where to go.

2) It is harder to graduate from college when many students drop out of college and never graduated.

3) It is even harder to find a job after you graduated.

4) Staying employed for a long period is even harder.

In summary, it is a marathon. Getting into a college is least of all the challenges.

<<She's stressed that she's currently not getting straight A's... but her grades are pretty much all A's and B's and last year, her freshman year, she got all A's. This year she has AP classes so things are harder. Weighted, even with the B's she's on track to have over a 4.0 GPA even if she "just" maintains her current grades.>>

That might help (1) and (2). It may not matter for (3) and (4). Getting a decent grade is necessary but insufficient. What had she done to prepare for (3) and (4)? My daughter had an internship while she was in high school.

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Re: How hard is it really to get into college?

Post by GmanJeff »

As you undoubtedly know, colleges and universities vary widely in selectivity. The counsel to provide your daughter is to remind her that she will have realistic chances of admission at some schools and not at others, and those chances will vary with the strength of her qualifications and how different schools value different applicant attributes which she may possess to a greater or lesser extent.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Calico »

She hasn't done much for numbers 3 or 4 Klang. Currently, no one will even hire her for an after school job and she's even limited on volunteering due to her age. But things should open up more for her when she turns 16 and can drive.

I never thought of an internship in high school. I always associated that with college (I did one in college and it really helped me get my first job more than my degree or my school). I will have her look into that maybe next year.
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TxAg
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by TxAg »

It's harder to pay for college than get accepted.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by KlangFool »

Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:51 am She hasn't done much for numbers 3 or 4 Klang. Currently, no one will even hire her for an after school job and she's even limited on volunteering due to her age. But things should open up more for her when she turns 16 and can drive.

I never thought of an internship in high school. I always associated that with college (I did one in college and it really helped me get my first job more than my degree or my school). I will have her look into that maybe next year.
Calico,

<<I never thought of an internship in high school. >>

1) My daughter is resourceful. She is a go-getter. I do not have to worry about her future. I just need to tell her to relax and slow down some times.

2) You have a choice. You could be short-sighted and behave like everyone else. Or, take a long view and treat this like a marathon and do a bit on (3) and (4) over a very long period of time.

3) We taught our son and daughter how to cook, shop, budget while they were young. It is part of life survival skill training.

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randomguy
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Re: How hard is it really to get into college?

Post by randomguy »

There is a college for anyone with enough money to pay tuition. When people talk about how hard it is to get into college, they are talking about top 10% schools (i.e. state flagship schools, Ivies, private schools with name recognizations,...). Take CA. UC Berkley has a 17% admission rate. Cal State Sacramento has a 70% rate. The 2 year schools take anyone with a pulse. Now how many of the nonSelective schools have good applied math programs is something that you would need to research.

If your daughter wants to work to get into the "best" school possible is up to her. For a lot of people the "best" school is probably their state flagship and depending on the state (i.e. CA really hard to get to Berkley or UCLA. University of CT? Not so much), she might be well above the bar already.

And FWIW, stop thinking of 4.0 as a perfect GPA. It isn't. 4.5 to 5.0 is perfect in schools with AP/IB programs these days.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Community colleges will typically accept anyone who applies. Those who don't have the minimum to take even entry courses are assisted with classes designed to bring them up to the starting point.

There are also a lot of private colleges who will accept anyone. One way to get into a "better" college is to start at one of these colleges, perform well and transfer. My son did this and is about to graduate from the better college. This isn't new. I did this back in the 80's. A college can better judge a student who has performed in college for their freshman year than they can with a high school student. When a student graduates, they aren't going to say "I went for a year to Knowledge Kollege, then transferred to MIT". They'll simply say "I graduated from MIT".

It can also be way cheaper to start at community college and get all the courses possible out of the way for peanuts, then transfer to a state college or a private college. Just coordinate with the target college so you're only taking transferable courses.

Also, if your daughter's high school uses Navient, they will be able to see stats on students from her high school who have applied and been accepted to any college you wish to look at. If she wants to go to Stanford and finds that nobody from her high school has ever been accepted there, then I wouldn't hold out hope that she'd be the first. But if 100 applied over the last 10 years and 93 were accepted, then indeed, there's a chance.
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SchruteB&B
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by SchruteB&B »

It is very, very hard to get into Stanford and UCLA and all the hype and media attention is around schools like that. It is much more difficult to get into these highly selective schools than when you were applying.

There are THOUSANDS of colleges in the USA though and they run the gamut from open door admission policies up to the 4% acceptance rate at Stanford.

Does your high school have Naviance? If so, it is a great tool to look at where students from your high school are accepted and with what GPA and SAT/ACT scores.

Is the other website College Confidential? I have seen a lot of “if you don’t have straight As you are relegated to community college!!!!” Posts there and it is nonsense.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Pigeon »

You can get a good idea of this yourself pretty easily. Pick out a few schools that she's likely to be of interest to her. Go to their websites. Most schools will have some kind of profile of their most recently admitted class that will give you an idea about the typical test scores and GPA. There are also websites that will let you screen for certain criteria to find colleges or see typical admissions stats. https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/ or https://www.cappex.com/colleges are two.

Colleges have very different admissions criteria, so until you have a few in mind, it's not possible to understand her chances. Also realize that some colleges emphasize different things. For many, her extracurricular activities also matter. Some don't weight GPAs and some do. There are lots of colleges out there and it sounds like she won't have any problem finding some that will admit her. If she wants to go to a place that's very selective, obviously she'll have more competition. You are always going to encounter a subset of parent's who believe that their kid's life is over if they don't get into an Ivy. Hence the Felicity Huffman stuff.

If I were her, I wouldn't sweat it too much. I think in the field she's choosing, she's going to be fine if she goes to any decent college.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by livesoft »

I only skimmed this thread, but it is easy for a high school graduate to get into a college if they want to get into a college. I have 2 children that went to college. One went to a very selective university and the other went to a non-selective Tier 1 state university. So those 2 universities span a huge range of entrance qualifications. Let's just say that if one had a pulse and was breathing, then they would be admitted to the Tier 1 state university. That's not quite true, but is mostly true.

The next question might be: How hard is it to graduate from college? which is a different question altogether.

As for Applied Math as a major, I think that's great! I know 3 people that majored in that: Two are actuaries and one is a school teacher. They are all doing really well in life.
Last edited by livesoft on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Jags4186 »

College is extremely easy to get admitted to. In fact there are many colleges and universities that admit basically anyone who applies.

Comparing getting into college to getting into UC Berkeley or Stanford is a bit of a stretch. You’re comparing something 1,000,000s of people do every year to something an extraordinarily small percentage of people would ever hope to achieve.

OP you should start getting a few books — I remember using Princeton Review 300 Best Colleges. An A/B student should be able to get into some of those schools. This will at least give you some idea of where you daughter could go. You can then look at what you can afford and where you daughter would be willing to travel to.

I also would suggest you talk to your daughter’s guidance counselor, although depending on the school you attend they may be worthless.

It is also much easier, IMO to graduate from a selective school than it is a “we admit anyone school.” However the reason isn’t because one is easier than the other. The reason is that people who are smart enough to get into Stanford are smart enough to get through college. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by squirm »

Depends on the college.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by RadAudit »

Your daughter is a sophomore in high school? This stress will go on for sometime as she tries to find her way in life. Your job is to try to provide her the opportunities to learn the skills necessary to survive, and to release some of the pressure on finding out how to get in to the "best" school. The best school is the right school for her - one that provides her with enough options to explore her interests in order for her to find something she wants to do. And, in all probability, that'll change at least once in college and maybe several times after she graduates.

Acceptance rates for colleges? Easiest thing in the world to pump up. (We had a state school that went from a school of last resort to extremely selective the year after they got a decent quarterback for the football team. Another state school managed to get a best value rating - how I don't know - and it's selectivity numbers popped up the next year.) Maybe she should want a school that doesn't grade itself by the number of applicants it rejects but by the number it accepts and educates.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Elysium »

OP,

As others have said, stop stressing out both yourself and your daughter. She will get into a good college with a mix of A's and B's, some colleges will admit those with even some C's here and there. Just make sure the junior year before applying to college and the senior year goes well.

My son is a junior currently in what is one of the toughest high school curriculum in the country, it is brutal and the stress levels are very high even for these kids who are probably top 1% of academic achievers in the country. We have given up thinking about selective schools, and just settle with anything below top 10. It helps having gone to an intense HS program which gives a preview into what Top 10 college programs may look like. Some kids don't like being in the middle of the pack or bottom of the pack, when they are used to being the smartest kids around. Mine hates it, where he is with the smartest kids in the room, and he is not among the top 10% of that group.

Any school other than Top 10 schools and state flagships will admit kids with good GPA and standardized test scores. We are only looking at non-selective schools and will be happy he gets to enjoy life a little better at a not so competitive environment where he can thrive without needing to stress out. Many intense college programs try to weed out 5%-10% of the freshmen admits, in order to keep it competitive and maintain rankings. Another reason you do not want to stretch out when it comes to colleges you can get admitted.
Last edited by Elysium on Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:42 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by RickBoglehead »

There is literally an entire industry focused on getting kids into college, and there's a reason for that. Thousands of books on the subject.

Getting subjective answers for a community that is both financially astute and tilted to an older demographic is not really representative of the population and the challenge of getting into college. That said, stop stressing. Start LEARNING about the process and how your daughter can best determine where she might want to go and what it takes to get in there.

Colleges provide data on their sites regarding acceptance rate. Those that think of the old paper application days don't really get that today there is a common app and it's very easy to apply to many schools. While it may be ridiculous to apply to more than 4 - 6 schools, most apply to much more. That drops the acceptance rates, simple math.

When our oldest was getting ready to apply to college, we visited a major state university and the head of admissions happened to give the short talk that day. He said "how many of you are in band?" Hands went up. He said "we don't care". "How many of you are in ___ or ____? We don't care. What we care about are those that are in band at the state level. Or those that are at the state level in ____".

Our oldest was an Eagle Scout, with 5 Palms. He asked "how about an Eagle Scout?" The reply was "that we care about". And that's what got him in to the school. He wrote one essay about becoming an Eagle Scout, with 5 Palms, and how that was more than Gerald Ford got (you can guess the school), and how that was a fraction of all Eagle Scouts ever.

Our youngest is a genius, an actual one. Also an Eagle Scout. Applied to top engineering schools. Got into one, finishing in the top 1%. But he didn't get in to MIT. Or Stanford. Oh well.

Grades are great. Outside achievement is great. Being a standout is what matters.

Also keep in mind that college is what you make of it. Once you get in the door of a company, where you went to school is less relevant than what you accomplish.

DW and I both got our MBAs at the same time, graduating on the same day, from two different schools. Studied the same field. She paid a tiny fraction of my tuition amount at her not-well-know state school. I went to one of the top public universities in the country. We got the same knowledge, but my degree got me in doors hers would never get her in.

In undergrad, you can transfer schools. DW and I both transferred for our last two years, and our diplomas look the same as those that spent all their time at that school. Community college for 2 years, major university for 2 years, no one really cares.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by student »

Elysium wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:35 am Any school other than Top 10% schools and state flagships will admit kids with good GPA and standardized test scores.
I agree. Speaking as a college professor, I am confident that your daughter will get into a good college (maybe not Princeton). Please relax and think about future job market.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Sandtrap »

Great input from all thus far.

Additionally:

1. Keep in mind various career options and be open to changing those thoughts often from now until graduating high school, and beyond. There's nothing wrong with changing majors in college.
Fore example: I have a nephew who graduated with a degree in Environmental Science. 1 year later, he decided to go to Medical School. Went back, got his missing courses, took the MCAT, and so forth. Today, he is in private practice as an Internist. M.D.

*So, what is important is finding out what one's passion is and follow that. The grades and colleges and all that will work itself out from that.

2. A lot depends on what specific "track" one chooses. For example: if an eventual M.D. then start on that track now. Volunteering at 16 and driving at a local care center or hospital, etc. Here, grades are only part of the application to pre-med and med.

3. It's important to look at the current and future job markets and work back words from that. Not what grades one gets but what does one want to do, and enjoy doing, for a living.

4. There are many in professional careers, and other careers, that came up through community colleges then transferred to a university after an AA degree.

5. What do you call someone who worked their way into Medical School from the community college track and someone who got into an exclusive University? . . . Doctor.

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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by livesoft »

Oh, I flunked a semester of English in high school (as in 'F' on report card). I got into every college I applied to and matriculated at a private elite university mentioned a few times on this forum. So getting a grade less than 'A' is not the kiss of death.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Sandtrap »

livesoft wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:55 am Oh, I flunked a semester of English in high school (as in 'F' on report card). I got into every college I applied to and matriculated at a private elite university mentioned a few times on this forum. So getting a grade less than 'A' is not the kiss of death.
+1
Indeed.
There's much more than grades involved.
I graduated with somewhere between a 3.5 and 4.0 (can't remember) at a college prep private high school. Applied to 14 Universities for a Pre Med program. All were known "feeder" schools for the medical track. I was denied entry into all but one. It's not just grades.

And, as stated earlier, while having great grades does tend to open more career track options, it does not predict what eventual career will be pursued with passion.

(resisted matriculation jokes)

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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Nowizard »

This is a huge issue every parent wanting their children to obtain a higher education faces. As a retired professional, I dealt with this extremely frequently. There are three separate possibilities in most cases: 1. The child who has questions about being eligible for any college based on grades, admission scores, etc., 2. The child who chooses, with parental and other help, a college that "fits' their personality. This may include choosing a college that is "less" than their academic qualifications would support., 3. The child who chooses to attend the most challenging college to which they can be admitted.

For those wrestling with the second and third choices, the dynamics are influenced by both finances and personal psychology of the child and surrounding adults aiding with the decision. Assuming finances are not a determining issue, there are those who feel entry into the most prestigious college is absolutely the way to go. Others feel that the college years, though also about contacts and networking for the future, are for broader purposes than academics and a somewhat less rigorous curriculum will allow more balance, and that balance will ultimately be beneficial. In short, that approach is partially based on the thought that the child will eventually succeed at his/her level of capability whether attending a top tier college or a second tier one. This thought includes the belief that this approach will also produce a similar choice regarding admission to various graduate programs as academic success will be maximized in a less stressful setting. It is riskier if interested in some professions that generally require a narrow academic focus regarding education and training.

To personalize, our two sons were in the second category. One became a Phi Beta Kappa Scholar with a Ph.D., the other an MBA graduate of a highly recognized MBA program.

As with finances, it is important to tune out the "Noise" and focus on your own circumstances and those of your own children.
(Note: This is not advice, just commentary)

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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by HereToLearn »

College Confidential is great for learning about the process, but similar to this site, the average person posting is not the average HS student (or parent of usually). Posters can be extreme, and yes, many are aiming for highly selective schools.

You need to learn the landscape. Two tools: Naviance and your own HS's School Profile. If prepared properly, the School Profile will include a GPA distribution, AP score distribution, mean SAT/ACT/Subject Test scores, % of students attending college by type of school (four year vs two year), and list of AP courses offered. Once you review that info, you should be able to gain an idea of where your daughter falls among her classmates. Very few high schools rank these days (30% according to info reported on Common Data Sets), but a good profile will include GPA distribution. The profile will also give you a feeling for how rigorous your D's HS is.

Naviance will show you the stats of students from your D's HS who were admitted to each college. Naviance changed a few years ago, and is much less useful than it had been.

If you want to really dig deep, you can pull up the Common Data Set for any school, but I would not start there.

There is a college for every student. Good luck!
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by mmmodem »

The community college and state university that I transferred to had only two requirements for admission. Must be 18 and be able to pass an English proficiency test.

I remember starting my first job after graduation and most people there had a degree from UC Davis. I had applied to UC Davis but was not accepted. So it felt good to be working with people that I had hoped to be fellow alumni. However, they all had student loans. I did not so that I felt some schadenfreude. :mrgreen:
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Jags4186 »

livesoft wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:55 am Oh, I flunked a semester of English in high school (as in 'F' on report card). I got into every college I applied to and matriculated at a private elite university mentioned a few times on this forum. So getting a grade less than 'A' is not the kiss of death.
Maybe in the 1970s or 1980s, but today I would be shocked if there was a student with an F on their report card getting into a super elite school. It is much more difficult to get into the super elites today than it was in the past. Especially when there’s a plethora of minority, disadvantaged students who have their names on published science/math/medical/whatever with straight As. 1600 SATs, and 3 800s on SAT IIs.

I’m not that old but the common application wasn’t really a thing when I applied—I remember filling out 8 separate applications for 8 schools. Today it’s relatively easy for someone to apply to 15 or 20 schools with the click of a button (provided they have the for the application fees, of course.)
Last edited by Jags4186 on Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by FireProof »

Very easy. Many colleges are close to open admissions - 70+% are accepted. Some of those are low quality, admittedly, but not all of them. There are many solid public schools that are not selective. There are also truly open-admission community colleges that provide near-guaranteed transfers to four-year universities.

And yes, those schools may have low graduation rates, but that is largely because of the students themselves, rather than the school - they are much less academically gifted, and they are also from much poorer families, and likely to have to work at the same time. For the same student, it is not likely to be significantly harder to graduate from Chico State than from UC Berkeley.

It is also worth nothing that SAT is more likely to be the deciding factor than grades, which tend to be in a much narrower range for students who give a good-faith effort. As you say, even your daughter, who is not an exceptional student, is getting all As and Bs.

And I would actually say it's more of an East Coast phenomenon - there is much more obsession with attending selective private universities and liberal arts colleges, while the West Coast tends to be more focused on public universities (besides some prep schools).
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by caffeperfavore »

FireProof wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:20 am And I would actually say it's more of an East Coast phenomenon - there is much more obsession with attending selective private universities and liberal arts colleges, while the West Coast tends to be more focused on public universities (besides some prep schools).
And then there's the rest of us that grew up in flyover country! In my small farming town, everyone went to a directional school. As the first in my family to attend college, I had never even heard of most Ivy League schools, let alone the many small elite schools that friends from the Northeast obsess over. Those places might as well have been in China. Reading this thread, I'm kind of thankful for that.

My mediocre college allowed me to be a big fish in a small pond and I was involved in many extracurricular activities and had the chance to work closely with a couple of professors, gaining valuable research experience that paved the way for admittance to the top graduate program in my field. Among the students I knew at Directional U, all of the semi-motivated ones are doing well for themselves (one went on to grad school at Harvard and wondered if being from a non-elite made him stand out) and even a few of the screwups have managed to do pretty well. My point? There are many roads to happiness and success, however you define it.

OP, it sounds like your daughter will definitely get into college. It may not be Stanford, but that's true for most kids. It's not going to doom her to life in a van down by the river.
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Calico
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Calico »

Thanks all.

Just to clarify, I am not worried about her getting into college, she's the one who's worried. When I posted to another forum for advice on how to help her manage this stress, I was told I was the one who was wrong and I should be worried too. So I wanted some second opinions on that.

I am not worried about test scores. She took the PSAT and did well enough for aid if she was a junior (but it doesn't count because she did that as a freshman). I think her grades are great (even if she doesn't or others say anything less than all A's is substandard). Like I said, she pretty much has all As in honors and AP classes, just one B so far in honors biology (she may end up with one more B this year too if her grades stay consistent the rest of this year... so we are talking 15 As and 2 Bs by the end of her sophomore year). I think that's great considering these aren't base classes. Her weighted GPA will be something like a 4.24.

Anyway, I just suspect this is "elite school hype." I don't see the value for the stress and money paid in those elite schools unless one is going to be a politician or maybe a business person who needs connections. I am on the hiring team where I work and what school someone went to is more of a curiosity when it comes to hiring. Experience and interview are much more important. Even for new graduates coming to us.
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SevenBridgesRoad
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by SevenBridgesRoad »

caffeperfavore wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:53 am
FireProof wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:20 am And I would actually say it's more of an East Coast phenomenon - there is much more obsession with attending selective private universities and liberal arts colleges, while the West Coast tends to be more focused on public universities (besides some prep schools).
And then there's the rest of us that grew up in flyover country! In my small farming town, everyone went to a directional school. As the first in my family to attend college, I had never even heard of most Ivy League schools, let alone the many small elite schools that friends from the Northeast obsess over. Those places might as well have been in China. Reading this thread, I'm kind of thankful for that.

My mediocre college allowed me to be a big fish in a small pond and I was involved in many extracurricular activities and had the chance to work closely with a couple of professors, gaining valuable research experience that paved the way for admittance to the top graduate program in my field. Among the students I knew at Directional U, all of the semi-motivated ones are doing well for themselves (one went on to grad school at Harvard and wondered if being from a non-elite made him stand out) and even a few of the screwups have managed to do pretty well. My point? There are many roads to happiness and success, however you define it.

OP, it sounds like your daughter will definitely get into college. It may not be Stanford, but that's true for most kids. It's not going to doom her to life in a van down by the river.
Mine is a similar story and I know a ton of succesful people with this story.
adamthesmythe
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by adamthesmythe »

Having been at the other end of this...even at "highly selective" colleges you will find plenty of mediocre students.

Look at the big picture. MOST HS graduates end up going to college these days. MOST of them don't have all As.

A student with a good- not great- record can be admitted to most of the colleges they apply to. Just not Stanford and Harvard. Part of the college search is finding the class of colleges that are highly likely to admit the student, and then choosing from this rather large number based on location, compatibility, etc.

Encourage the student to do well, develop some interests,* and think about mapping those interests into fields where there are career options.

* A surprising number of students don't have clear interests, again even at "highly selective" places.
Elysium
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Elysium »

Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 am Thanks all.

Just to clarify, I am not worried about her getting into college, she's the one who's worried. When I posted to another forum for advice on how to help her manage this stress, I was told I was the one who was wrong and I should be worried too. So I wanted some second opinions on that.

I am not worried about test scores. She took the PSAT and did well enough for aid if she was a junior (but it doesn't count because she did that as a freshman). I think her grades are great (even if she doesn't or others say anything less than all A's is substandard). Like I said, she pretty much has all As in honors and AP classes, just one B so far in honors biology (she may end up with one more B this year too if her grades stay consistent the rest of this year... so we are talking 15 As and 2 Bs by the end of her sophomore year). I think that's great considering these aren't base classes. Her weighted GPA will be something like a 4.24.

Anyway, I just suspect this is "elite school hype." I don't see the value for the stress and money paid in those elite schools unless one is going to be a politician or maybe a business person who needs connections. I am on the hiring team where I work and what school someone went to is more of a curiosity when it comes to hiring. Experience and interview are much more important. Even for new graduates coming to us.
Looks like your daughter is doing really great. Those are really good scores, easily among the top 25% of the applicants, she'll get into most colleges outside of Top 10-20. The pressure comes when someone is doing well there is always the pitch to stretch out and apply to elite schools. IMO, it is really hard to get into elite schools even for the Top 10% achievers with near perfect GPA and SAT scores. If you are not in that race then no need to worry, just let her enjoy HS life and participate in as many non-academic activities also possible.
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MrBobcat
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by MrBobcat »

Calico,

Learning to manage/reduce stress IMO ought to be number one priority right now. I always emphasized to my kids the goal of education wasn't to get perfect grades (so don't stress over it), it was to learn. I had disdain (possibly too strong a word) for their peers who chose electives that were easy A's so as to not jeopardize their 4.0. I told them I'd be much happier if they got a C in an advanced class (if they learned something) than an A in a basic easy class.

Your daughter appears to be capable and a good student she and you should not worry about her getting into college. As far as staying in college once she gets there it looks like she's on track if she's already taking AP classes as a Sophomore. To me being challenged academically in high school goes a long way to preparing a student for the rigors and lack of hand holding at university.

Be sure you're not contributing to her stress (no indication that you are, but be aware). I swear some of the parents of "gifted" children or more obnoxious than parents of star athletes. The atmosphere is so much more competitive now than when I went to school, we didn't even prepare for the ACT/SAT and only took it once. That being said more emphasis seems to be placed on these tests now especially regarding scholarships and such so it's probably worth one's while to be more prepared for them than in the past. But again it's not the end of the world if one does just adequately on the test.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by FireProof »

Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 am

I am not worried about test scores. She took the PSAT and did well enough for aid if she was a junior (but it doesn't count because she did that as a freshman). I think her grades are great (even if she doesn't or others say anything less than all A's is substandard). Like I said, she pretty much has all As in honors and AP classes, just one B so far in honors biology (she may end up with one more B this year too if her grades stay consistent the rest of this year... so we are talking 15 As and 2 Bs by the end of her sophomore year). I think that's great considering these aren't base classes. Her weighted GPA will be something like a 4.24.
Sounds like a humble-brag from either her or you, then. Nothing here indicates that she wouldn't be competitive at all schools, including Harvard and Stanford, depending on the rest of her application - nobody I knew at my high school got 100% As, but plenty went to top 5 schools.
snowman
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by snowman »

Calico,

I hope I didn’t steer you the wrong way back in February, when you posted about being able to afford paying for your daughter’s college education. I bet the “other forum” is college confidential, and it can be a brutal place, especially in college admissions section. I would not even look there, as it will cause a lot of stress and anxiety on your part, and your daughter will pick up on that. That would not be fair to her, she is already stressed enough.

Having said that, Financial aid section is a treasure trove of information. You can search old threads, or you can post your specific situation, and you will get good info that will help you plan and pay for college education. That is the biggest worry for most parents these days.

Your daughter will get into college, so that’s a non-issue! Your real issue is how to pay for it, and so your job is to identify schools that offer majors your daughter is interested in, arrange your finances for FAFSA purposes, identify schools with a record of good financial aid, etc. etc. Your daughter should only apply to schools where she has a reasonable chance of admission, and where she can graduate without ton of debt. Apply to at least one school that she is guaranteed to get in, and you can afford to pay for. Not doing that is the biggest mistake many parents make. Please don't be one of them.

Your daughter will do fine in life no matter where she goes to college. Please let her enjoy her HS years so she can create lots of good memories. Remember, your role as a parent is to be supportive, not to cause additional stress. She is doing great, BTW! When the application time comes, that's when you step in - no "dream school" or any nonsense like that - you are not rich, you cannot afford it, your job is to make sure your daughter has affordable option in her intended major. She will thank you later in life for steering her in the right direction, even if she is unhappy at the moment.

I wish you both good luck on this journey.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by inbox788 »

Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:39 am... talking about how hard it is to get into UCLA or UC Berkley and Stanford). But that's not my state and it's off my radar and my daughter's radar. Perhaps there it's a different world so to speak.
"UCLA or UC Berkley and Stanford" along with the rest of the top elite universities are extremely hard to get into, some with acceptance rates in the single digits. These are mostly reach/dream schools for even the most competitive applicants.
I look at acceptance rates in my state/schools my daughter is interested in and they vary from 30% to 80% with most not having a perfect 4.0 GPA as the average GPA to get in.
I wonder who gets rejected in the 80% accepted school; all failing grades or a criminal record? https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-sc ... s-rankings

Are the schools ranked on this list? https://www.educationcorner.com/college ... rates.html

From the sound of it, the schools she's interested in seem like safety schools and she could target some more competitive programs. https://blog.prepscholar.com/target-sch ... find-yours

Anyway, she'll do fine anywhere there's a good math department, but here's something to keep in mind. Some of the best students at math students go into science and engineering, so it may be helpful to be exposed to high caliber students and challenge her. You don't want the physics or civil engineering student outperforming the math major in a calculus do you? History, polisci, or English lit. majors aren't expected to excel at math.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by coffeeblack »

Perhaps I missed it but what does she want to study in college/university?

In my opinion if she has good grades (not all A's but good) she can get into a good school. It may not be stanford or UCLA or Harvard etc. But lets put that into perspective. I remember a study years ago (I wish I could find it) that stated that many A students at harvard or top schools end up working for c students that were more personable and business minded. That's because they were able to become CEO's and business owners thus needing to hire the A students to run their business. So that was just one study.

In general if she wants to practice medicine, law or go to wall street, she will need a good school with good grades. The rest is hard work.

A friend of mine is an engineer. He had good grades, A's and B's. After he go he graduated the company he worked for paid for his masters and phd. He has done well.

There is no point in stressing over grades if she did her best. It's not like she can change the grades of the past. Just work hard.
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LilyFleur
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by LilyFleur »

FireProof wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:16 am
Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 am

I am not worried about test scores. She took the PSAT and did well enough for aid if she was a junior (but it doesn't count because she did that as a freshman). I think her grades are great (even if she doesn't or others say anything less than all A's is substandard). Like I said, she pretty much has all As in honors and AP classes, just one B so far in honors biology (she may end up with one more B this year too if her grades stay consistent the rest of this year... so we are talking 15 As and 2 Bs by the end of her sophomore year). I think that's great considering these aren't base classes. Her weighted GPA will be something like a 4.24.
Sounds like a humble-brag from either her or you, then. Nothing here indicates that she wouldn't be competitive at all schools, including Harvard and Stanford, depending on the rest of her application - nobody I knew at my high school got 100% As, but plenty went to top 5 schools.
Actually, unless she started her own charity in high school, a 4.24 isn't super competitive for Stanford. Stanford has a very small freshman class.

But it is very competitive for other universities. Does she have other extracurricular activities?
I have a child who just graduated from UC Berkeley. He was middle of the pack there and loved the intellectual stimulation. He chose that school (no pressure from me). My other child is at a well known state school that is also fairly hard to get into (but not a UC, although she did get in to two UCs). She wanted to go to a school where it would be easier to be the top of the pack and where she wouldn't feel as stressed, and she loves her school and her professors. My point is, let your child be who she is. Be sure to take a college road trip and let her figure out where she might fit in best (even if she does community college to get there).

Part of her preparation for college and for life is how to handle stress, so it is good that you are helping her on that. Some millennials watch Bob Ross painting videos (just watching, not painting) for stress relief!
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Calico
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Calico »

FireProof wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:16 am
Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 am

I am not worried about test scores. She took the PSAT and did well enough for aid if she was a junior (but it doesn't count because she did that as a freshman). I think her grades are great (even if she doesn't or others say anything less than all A's is substandard). Like I said, she pretty much has all As in honors and AP classes, just one B so far in honors biology (she may end up with one more B this year too if her grades stay consistent the rest of this year... so we are talking 15 As and 2 Bs by the end of her sophomore year). I think that's great considering these aren't base classes. Her weighted GPA will be something like a 4.24.
Sounds like a humble-brag from either her or you, then. Nothing here indicates that she wouldn't be competitive at all schools, including Harvard and Stanford, depending on the rest of her application - nobody I knew at my high school got 100% As, but plenty went to top 5 schools.
Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like bragging, it was more of me being defensive. I think I've been put on edge a little with people telling me my daughter will be a "failure" for not being an all A student and I am failing her for not encouraging and pushing her harder (and this is carrying over from the other forum, not here). I kind of over reacted to a comment I misread in this thread. I won't even point it out because I feel silly now.

I am just trying to say my daughter might not be a super student with straight A's and perfect test scores who is getting a full ride to Harvard or something, but she does get high grades in challenging (weighted) classes and she seems to do really well on standardized tests.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by topper1296 »

All I'll add to this discussion is I was told a long time ago that what you do with an education is more important than where it comes from.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:11 am
FireProof wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:16 am
Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 am

I am not worried about test scores. She took the PSAT and did well enough for aid if she was a junior (but it doesn't count because she did that as a freshman). I think her grades are great (even if she doesn't or others say anything less than all A's is substandard). Like I said, she pretty much has all As in honors and AP classes, just one B so far in honors biology (she may end up with one more B this year too if her grades stay consistent the rest of this year... so we are talking 15 As and 2 Bs by the end of her sophomore year). I think that's great considering these aren't base classes. Her weighted GPA will be something like a 4.24.
Sounds like a humble-brag from either her or you, then. Nothing here indicates that she wouldn't be competitive at all schools, including Harvard and Stanford, depending on the rest of her application - nobody I knew at my high school got 100% As, but plenty went to top 5 schools.
Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like bragging, it was more of me being defensive. I think I've been put on edge a little with people telling me my daughter will be a "failure" for not being an all A student and I am failing her for not encouraging and pushing her harder (and this is carrying over from the other forum, not here). I kind of over reacted to a comment I misread in this thread. I won't even point it out because I feel silly now.

I am just trying to say my daughter might not be a super student with straight A's and perfect test scores who is getting a full ride to Harvard or something, but she does get high grades in challenging (weighted) classes and she seems to do really well on standardized tests.
May I suggest you change company whom provide such "compliments" to you? There is no such thing as perfect in life. It's going to be a real surprise to those who believe that "A" students are superior to others when they fail some test in life, whether it be professional or personal. Carry on Calico and stop listening to the noise of the perfectionista's.
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Calico
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Calico »

To answer some other questions (not going to quote everyone).

She wants to major in applied math with a goal of being a financial analysis, data scientist, or actuary.

80% acceptance rate schools that she's looking at are George Mason and Virginia Tech (although I've also seen 70% acceptance for the latter, it depends on what website you look at). I think those schools are good. They might not rank high nationally, but they are up there in Virginia. They are on her "list" along with other more selective schools like UVA.

She's big into music and band. She's not the best in band or anything like that, but she is dedicated. It takes up a lot of time so it doesn't leave much room for other activities but she is also on the academic quiz team. She's also looking for volunteer work, although as I mentioned earlier, most everything she "wants" to do requires kids to be 16 years old.

I think it's funny someone mentioned Bob Ross. My daughter actually likes him. I thought it was just a her thing.
Last edited by Calico on Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by livesoft »

Jags4186 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:19 am[...]
It is much more difficult to get into the super elites today than it was in the past. Especially when there’s a plethora of minority, disadvantaged students who have their names on published science/math/medical/whatever with straight As. 1600 SATs, and 3 800s on SAT IIs.
I will just state that you don't know about my SAT, my SAT IIs, nor any published papers, nor other things. :twisted:

Somebody has to go to these elite schools. There are only so many high school graduates and only so many openings in the freshmen classes. Just from the statistics, I don't think it is any harder. Some statistics are meaningless because if many applicants below the top 1% (or 0.1%) of HS graduates "click" to apply, then we can discount their application forthwith.
Last edited by livesoft on Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LilyFleur
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by LilyFleur »

Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:11 am
FireProof wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:16 am
Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 am

I am not worried about test scores. She took the PSAT and did well enough for aid if she was a junior (but it doesn't count because she did that as a freshman). I think her grades are great (even if she doesn't or others say anything less than all A's is substandard). Like I said, she pretty much has all As in honors and AP classes, just one B so far in honors biology (she may end up with one more B this year too if her grades stay consistent the rest of this year... so we are talking 15 As and 2 Bs by the end of her sophomore year). I think that's great considering these aren't base classes. Her weighted GPA will be something like a 4.24.
Sounds like a humble-brag from either her or you, then. Nothing here indicates that she wouldn't be competitive at all schools, including Harvard and Stanford, depending on the rest of her application - nobody I knew at my high school got 100% As, but plenty went to top 5 schools.
Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like bragging, it was more of me being defensive. I think I've been put on edge a little with people telling me my daughter will be a "failure" for not being an all A student and I am failing her for not encouraging and pushing her harder (and this is carrying over from the other forum, not here). I kind of over reacted to a comment I misread in this thread. I won't even point it out because I feel silly now.

I am just trying to say my daughter might not be a super student with straight A's and perfect test scores who is getting a full ride to Harvard or something, but she does get high grades in challenging (weighted) classes and she seems to do really well on standardized tests.
I didn't think you were bragging--just presenting more relevant information to us. Your daughter is with very competitive students in her AP classes. (I can think of a lot worse things!) She will find her way.
Goal33
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Goal33 »

livesoft wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:55 am Oh, I flunked a semester of English in high school (as in 'F' on report card). I got into every college I applied to and matriculated at a private elite university mentioned a few times on this forum. So getting a grade less than 'A' is not the kiss of death.
I am not sure your admittance experience from 30-50 years ago is relevant in this context though. Getting less than an 'A' is probably not the kiss of death for college admissions, but an 'F' probably is.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Katietsu »

MrBobcat wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:11 am I always emphasized to my kids the goal of education wasn't to get perfect grades (so don't stress over it), it was to learn. I had disdain (possibly too strong a word) for their peers who chose electives that were easy A's so as to not jeopardize their 4.0. I told them I'd be much happier if they got a C in an advanced class (if they learned something) than an A in a basic easy class.
I wish it were this simple though. My DH and I have both been behind the scenes of college and professional school admissions. Getting a single C in college can keep you out of even a lower ranked program when seeking a competitive professional degree. In the 80’s, this was not the case. I know, I had one!

So, was the learning in that interesting advanced class with detailing an entire career? I am having this discussion right now with some family members who have not seen it from the inside. Note that I am not suggesting filling a schedule with a ton of the easiest classes just because. But, I do think you should be thoughtful about the potential impact on GPA when you chose a class schedule.
Last edited by Katietsu on Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
FireProof
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by FireProof »

LilyFleur wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:06 am
FireProof wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:16 am
Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 am

I am not worried about test scores. She took the PSAT and did well enough for aid if she was a junior (but it doesn't count because she did that as a freshman). I think her grades are great (even if she doesn't or others say anything less than all A's is substandard). Like I said, she pretty much has all As in honors and AP classes, just one B so far in honors biology (she may end up with one more B this year too if her grades stay consistent the rest of this year... so we are talking 15 As and 2 Bs by the end of her sophomore year). I think that's great considering these aren't base classes. Her weighted GPA will be something like a 4.24.
Sounds like a humble-brag from either her or you, then. Nothing here indicates that she wouldn't be competitive at all schools, including Harvard and Stanford, depending on the rest of her application - nobody I knew at my high school got 100% As, but plenty went to top 5 schools.
Actually, unless she started her own charity in high school, a 4.24 isn't super competitive for Stanford. Stanford has a very small freshman class.

But it is very competitive for other universities. Does she have other extracurricular activities?
I have a child who just graduated from UC Berkeley. He was middle of the pack there and loved the intellectual stimulation. He chose that school (no pressure from me). My other child is at a well known state school that is also fairly hard to get into (but not a UC, although she did get in to two UCs). She wanted to go to a school where it would be easier to be the top of the pack and where she wouldn't feel as stressed, and she loves her school and her professors. My point is, let your child be who she is. Be sure to take a college road trip and let her figure out where she might fit in best (even if she does community college to get there).

Part of her preparation for college and for life is how to handle stress, so it is good that you are helping her on that. Some millennials watch Bob Ross painting videos (just watching, not painting) for stress relief!
Not sure how relevant weighted GPA is in general, but it's certainly near meaningless for a sophomore, who will have taken fewer weighted classes. I don't think there can be much to nit-pick with ONE non A so far. My friends who went to Stanford and Harvard tended to have 3.8-3.9 (non-weighted), the same as her, even if she gets the dreaded second B. Of course, I have other friends who had 3.8 and went to UC Davis. My point is there's nothing determinative about her record so far, especially given her apparent strength at standardized testing.

But I certainly understand how there can be a certain infectious hysteria in the pre-college community.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Whakamole »

Agreed that things are very different and much more competitive these days. At least it seems like it - that or it's grade inflation.

Virginia has overall excellent universities IMHO. She might also consider JMU, which stood for "Just Missed UVA" back in the day. Virginia Tech has a better reputation for math and sciences; I know a lot of VT graduates at my employer who are software engineers. Not as many fellow UVA people, they tend to be stationed in law and business.
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Elysium »

FireProof wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:16 am
Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:55 am

I am not worried about test scores. She took the PSAT and did well enough for aid if she was a junior (but it doesn't count because she did that as a freshman). I think her grades are great (even if she doesn't or others say anything less than all A's is substandard). Like I said, she pretty much has all As in honors and AP classes, just one B so far in honors biology (she may end up with one more B this year too if her grades stay consistent the rest of this year... so we are talking 15 As and 2 Bs by the end of her sophomore year). I think that's great considering these aren't base classes. Her weighted GPA will be something like a 4.24.
Sounds like a humble-brag from either her or you, then. Nothing here indicates that she wouldn't be competitive at all schools, including Harvard and Stanford, depending on the rest of her application - nobody I knew at my high school got 100% As, but plenty went to top 5 schools.
I didn't think it was humble brag at all from OP. He is just sounding off and some data is relevant to this discussion. BTW, a weighted GPA of 4.25 will get you no where close to Ivy and Top 10 schools, nowhere even with perfect SAT scores. I know since my son's peer group, many of them get close of 4.5 GPA with SAT scores above 1500 and none of them get admission to Ivy and Top 10, perhaps there is a case of demographics at play here which I won't get into. But, unless you are willing to take up liberal arts/social sciences it is very unlikely a student with GPA below 4.5 will be considered by elite schools without some hook or special actions.

OP's daughter is a good student, and will get into a good school and that is all that matters. She may even quality for scholarships at many schools, and that is probably the best route.
Elysium
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Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by Elysium »

Calico wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:18 am To answer some other questions (not going to quote everyone).

She wants to major in applied math with a goal of being a financial analysis, data scientist, or actuary.

80% acceptance rate schools that she's looking at are George Mason and Virginia Tech (although I've also seen 70% acceptance for the latter, it depends on what website you look at). I think those schools are good. They might not rank high nationally, but they are up there in Virginia. They are on her "list" along with other more selective schools like UVA.
Have you not considered the College of William & Mary, it is a great school for students interested in science and has a great reputation for being very academic oriented, great campus too. VT is great for Engineering, and JMU is also worth considering. I think she can do better than GMU although it is a fine school for Computer Science program. UVA although is the flagship school, is more oriented towards business and law, although many students wish to go there for prestige and later on try to get into graduate programs.
rich126
Posts: 4475
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by rich126 »

I think over the years things have changed greatly. I'm in my 50s so we are talking about 35 years ago. I always did well in school but never a straight A student since some teacher or class just didn't interest me and I'd get a B in that class.

Now maybe I didn't hang around with the right crowd but I didn't recall a lot of stress about grades, extra curricular activities and the like. And like many kids I had no idea what I wanted to do. It might surprise people that knew me in high school or now but I didn't go to a 4 year university straight out of high school. I went to a community college, did well there (can't recall the GPA but it was close to 4.0).

I ended up going to a top 50 engineering school, got credit for all of my classes and ended up with a 3.0+ GPA at that university. I didn't have any issues with adjusting to the university academic wise. Sure the standards were higher but I wasn't scraping by at the community college, if I was then maybe getting my degree would have been tougher.

Personally I think there is serious grade inflation and too many 4.0 (or even 4.0+) students aren't not 4.0 students and it shows in college or more often at work. I've seen too many CS, EEs, etc. at work who can't do the job and it is sad.

I guess I lucked out with the community college (needed it to improve socially since I was pretty shy/quiet person), and the college since it was a safe distance from home (far enough not to go home on the weekends but not too far) and they seemed to care about their students.

Right now there seems to be too much pressure on some students to get into certain schools and the kids don't always handle that well. I knew a server at a restaurant who was sharp but kind of cracked under parent pressure while studying civil engineering and is taking a year off.

Life isn't easy and sometimes kids need to find their own way and parents should stand by to help when asked but otherwise stay in the shadows.
----------------------------- | If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
T4REngineer
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:50 am

Re: How hard is it to get into college?

Post by T4REngineer »

My experience is over a decade old but it sounds like your daughter is thinking emotionally like a adult but does not have the years of experience to balance those emotions (not expected to at 15....). Some may think that perfection and engineers, doctors, lawyers, business owners are the only path to happiness/success and while my wife and I are in those fields (engineer and nurse) neither of us were straight A students in high school or college yet we are well rounded in multiple facets of life not just academics - judgment, socially, spiritually, financially etc. and by most metrics in the "top 10%" if not far higher. From my experiences academic success has no correlation with financial success and even less so for general life satisfaction. We are not all in the same degree, same school, same classes, same teachers so comparing two peoples A's even at the same school/degree is a joke - what each of those individuals took away from that class and how it gets applied to the world can not be measured by a grade. I knew plenty of folks who tailored schedules to easy classes/teachers to get the grades. I would try to encourage her maturity and to continue to push herself but not to get discouraged or overworked/burned out because of a high school grade - she should be equally worried about boys and grades at that stage in life :beer

P.S. Don't get me started on weighted classes and 5.0s - The pressure and expectations some parents (not you) put on their kids these days is no better than the air brushed beauty expectations of magazines or the instagram realities yet it seems to slip by social norms because its sold as being in the child's best interest. I am not saying grades don't matter, some programs more then the others but I am trying to say for a Highschooler to be stressed out about getting all A's - she's going to do fine and make sure she knows it
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