How to Sell a Wyland Painting on My Bathroom Wall?

Tortoisesque · Post by **Tortoisesque** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:41 pm

New forum member, first post.

My wife and I recently bought a house, and even though this detail wasn't mentioned by the seller or the realtors, one of the bathrooms has a dolphin painted directly on the wall by the famous marine artist Wyland. It's about 6 feet high and 3.5 feet wide. Apparently one of the previous owners of the house won a radio contest back in 2000, and the prize was for Wyland to come to the house and do a painting on the wall.

Here's a photo of it:

We'll be remodeling the bathroom in the next few months, and although the dolphin painting is interesting and unique, we'll most likely remove it since the bathroom is small and we need to maximize the usable space along that wall. Since Wyland is such a well-known artist, we're thinking we can probably cut the painting out of the drywall, frame it, and sell it.

We stopped by a Wyland art gallery the other day and showed the photo to the consultants there, and they said it's probably worth at least $10k-$15k based on the price of a couple of pieces of similar style and size in that gallery. We plan to have its authenticity confirmed by the Wyland corporate office.

I have a few questions that I'm hoping some of you with art collection experience might be able to answer:

Is this sort of thing commonly done (cutting a wall painting out of drywall, then framing and selling it)?
I'm guessing I should pay an art professional to cut the painting out of the drywall so that I don't accidentally damage or ruin it?
After we have it framed, what would be the best way to sell it? To a Wyland gallery, a more general art gallery, some kind of auction, etc.?
Any good art-related discussion forums where I should also ask these questions?

Thanks!

Random Poster · Post by **Random Poster** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:33 pm

I would presume that you would need to cut the studs and then remove the studs, with the drywall attached, in one big piece, rather than just remove the drywall itself, as the chance of the drywall ripping apart would be pretty high, in my view.

What about donating it to an art museum and let them be responsible for removing it, while you get the tax deduction for the gift?

stan1 · Post by **stan1** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:46 pm

Tortoisesque wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:41 pm We stopped by a Wyland art gallery the other day and showed the photo to the consultants there, and they said it's probably worth at least $10k-$15k based on the price of a couple of pieces of similar style and size in that gallery.

It's worth what someone is willing to pay. Note the sales staff at the gallery said that's what they thought it might be worth, not what they would buy it for. There will be drywall screws (or nails) holding the drywall to the wall so to avoid damaging it agree the studs would need to go with it which could add quite a bit of cost to your remodel project.

I'd contact a local art auctioneer. Maybe they would know what to do or the would auction it while it is still on the wall and the buyer would figure out how to take it away?

Come back and let us know what you find out. I think its net value is pretty close to $0 due to being painted on drywall attached to studs, but maybe I don't appreciate the finer things in life.

celia · Post by **celia** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:50 pm

I would have a contractor cut it out instead of an artist. You/He should probably first determine where the studs are using a stud finder. If there’s a stud under the picture, this will be more difficult to remove. Also ask the contractor how much it would be to repair the wall. After all is said and done, the ‘profit’ won’t be as much as you expect.

Then you can see if it is worth your time.

The auction house/dealer estimate probably isn’t taking into account it is on drywall and a stud might have to go with the picture. Not many people would be interested in art like that.

J G Bankerton · Post by **J G Bankerton** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:06 pm

I would not sell it wile it is still a wall. The buyer may take half the house to keep the drawing intact. This guy is famous for paining walls, most can't be removed though.

JMacDonald · Post by **JMacDonald** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:40 pm

I would put a frame around it under glass.

He painted the Sports Arena where I live:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beac ... Barena.jpg

F150HD · Post by **F150HD** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:51 pm

bizarre. beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

Would def move slowly, might need to coat the wall w/ something first, so it doesn't chip/peel/crack when the drywall is removed.

Get bids from contractors.

Dialectical Investor · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:36 pm

I'd sooner attempt to sell the house to someone who appreciated the work before I mucked around with removing studs.

CABob · Post by **CABob** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:52 pm

With the painting 3.5 feet wide the likelihood is that there are at least 2 and maybe 3 studs behind it.

randomguy · Post by **randomguy** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:03 pm

celia wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:50 pm I would have a contractor cut it out instead of an artist. You/He should probably first determine where the studs are using a stud finder. If there’s a stud under the picture, this will be more difficult to remove. Also ask the contractor how much it would be to repair the wall. After all is said and done, the ‘profit’ won’t be as much as you expect.

Then you can see if it is worth your time.

The auction house/dealer estimate probably isn’t taking into account it is on drywall and a stud might have to go with the picture. Not many people would be interested in art like that.

I think the average contractor has about zero experience in cutting out a piece of drywall so not to destroy the artistic value. Granted I am not sure many art pros have experience with drywall either (you do see a lot of mural moving from brick or plaster) and I sort of doubt this will be super profitable. I guess I would ask the Wyland Gallery/Corporate office if they have any pointers. Got to admit I also sort of wonder who wants a painting that has been in someones bathroom for 20 years:)

spectec · Post by **spectec** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:43 am

I'll bet the contractor will want to open up the wall on the OPPOSITE SIDE to assess how best to remove the art work with the attaching studs. The most important issue is probably the location of the drywall screws contained within the image. That's likely the greatest point of weakness. Then there's the possibility of electrical wiring or plumbing passing through the studs or stapled to them.

So before the removal project even begins, a second project has to be undertaken. And a part of the agreement will likely be that the contractor bears no responsibility for any slip-ups or unexpected damage at any point. That alone will weigh heavily upon the value. Either you will build it into the price you're willing to accept or the buyer will build it into the price they're willing to pay.

fru-gal · Post by **fru-gal** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:56 am

Since he apparently painted on walls a lot, specialists in his work must know how to deal with this, if there is a way. I don't think I would weep copiously if the answer is forget it. It's not the Mona Lisa we're talking about here.

THY4373 · Post by **THY4373** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:17 am

OP I would guess as another poster noted that the gallery gave you an estimate of *retail* value of painting not what they were willing to pay. You very likely won't get anywhere near retail. Putting aside the complications of the medium the painting is on here, very likely if you were to sell to a gallery they would probably give you closer to 50% of retail value. Consigning via gallery or auction will eat up 10-25%+ of whatever the painting sells for. Also the gallery may have an interest in pricing your painting high since they want the market to be as high as possible. Before you go down the path of cutting up your wall I would probably seek out an appraiser (you will likely have to pay them something) to assess what you are likely to net for the painting. My hunch is that the painting may very well not be worth removing if doing so has any significant cost like cutting out a wall but who knows. Bottom line I would not rely on a free appraisal from a gallery to make a decision on cutting up the wall. You'll also likely have to assess the non zero risk the painting gets damaged on removal potentially hurting/eliminating its value.

mervinj7 · Post by **mervinj7** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:32 am

JMacDonald wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:40 pm I would put a frame around it under glass.

He painted the Sports Arena where I live:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beac ... Barena.jpg

+1 I would have gladly paid an extra $15k for a house with a custom Wyland. His work is wonderful. For the bathroom renovation, can you build another bathroom so you can preserve this wall?

lthenderson · Post by **lthenderson** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:34 am

Personally, unless I had a guaranteed buyer out there and new exactly what it would cost for me to remove it, I would just take a good picture of it and paint over the thing. Here is why.

The painting is extremely large so there will be a number of studs behind it and unless you hit the lottery, it probably spans at least two pieces of drywall. A lot of time drywall is laid on the sideways (long way is parallel to the floor) so there would be a bottom piece and a top piece. Even if it was done the other way, it would likely span two pieces. The joint between these two pieces will almost certainly crack at some point in the removal process.

The only way you would be able to remove this is to leave the screws alone which means you would have to tear all the drywall from the backside of the wall. You would have to remove any wires, cables, piping or venting that are in the stud cavities behind the painting. You would then have to brace the studs to each other so after they were cut, they would not move around or flex and damage the painting. If it is a load bearing wall, you would have to brace the ceiling above on both sides of the wall while doing this.

After you have successfully removed the painting paying through the nose for the labor to do so since it is a very unusual job with a high chance of failure and then repairing all the damage, you still have a painting that is nailed to a bunch of studs. I'm guessing you would still have to have someone lay the painting face down on a huge flat table and gently cut each screw from the studs while applying reinforcing to the back of the painting and then eventually pay to have it framed properly before you can think about selling it.

After you have done all those things, I'm guessing your costs would more than exceed the retail value of the painting and thus you would lose money on the entire process.

staythecourse · Post by **staythecourse** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:37 am

What did the art gallery say is the process for such an issue? I am SURE this has happened before so just whatever the auction house will be that you are using. They will give you the referral to the contractor who will do the job as they will need (I am assuming) insurance to cover a possible damage to the painting on removal.

Good luck.

p.s. Personally, I would do whatever I could to incorporate the painting. That is such a COOL story for a house to have. Much better then, "Hey do you like the paint color in our new bathroom?"

wilked · Post by **wilked** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:39 am

Is it a load-bearing wall?

wilked · Post by **wilked** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:45 am

First, whoever said 'sell it to someone who will take the whole job, including removing it' is right.

That said, here's how I'd remove it:

-get a rare-earth magnetic stud finder and find the screws within the sheetrock where the mural is. Hopefully there are not too many. Once you find them, carefully remove some drywall material around the screws, and remove the screws themselves. You'll need to repair those holes but that's not bad and something a competent art restoration place can do easily.

After this nothing is holding the mural in place other than surrounding drywall. Carefully with an exacto, cut around the drywall perimeter. You'll want someone supporting the drywall. Then remove some drywall around the cut perimeter and you should free the drywall.

Make sure you have plenty of clearance to remove it from the house. This thing will be very fragile

J G Bankerton · Post by **J G Bankerton** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:02 am

staythecourse wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:37 am That is such a COOL story for a house to have.

The seller didn't even mention the drawing when the house was sold. I would research the radio station and the contest. When it comes to art it is all about the providence.

stoptothink · Post by **stoptothink** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:23 am

mervinj7 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:32 am
JMacDonald wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:40 pm I would put a frame around it under glass.

He painted the Sports Arena where I live:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beac ... Barena.jpg
+1 I would have gladly paid an extra $15k for a house with a custom Wyland. His work is wonderful. For the bathroom renovation, can you build another bathroom so you can preserve this wall?

He has some amazing work, but that? My wife and mother both could paint a more visually appealing dolphin, in very little time. If that were on my bathroom wall, it would have been painted over immediately.

spectec · Post by **spectec** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:28 am

I'm guessing that removing the sheetrock portion and touching up the spots where the drywall screws were located would devalue the item for someone seriously interested in this artist. Most collectors probably would be willing to pay more for it with the original studs boxed in and intact.

Jags4186 · Post by **Jags4186** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:43 am

I have to agree with the posters above who are saying this is likely more trouble than its worth. We’re not talking about having a contractor come in and inspect a job. We’re talking about having art restoration specialists come in and figuring out how to remove the thing—not free. Then you’ll also need to have an art appraiser to come in and give you an appraised value that you may or may not get—again not free. In addition you are adding costs to your renovation.

Now if you have an appraiser come in who is willing to say the thing is worth $50,000 and after all is said and done you’ll net $25,000 then it’d be worth the hassle. But to spend $1000s of dollars to potentially net $1000s of dollars doesn’t seem like a good investment.

There is one other possibility which may or may not work for you. Simply leave that section of the wall unpainted when you do your renovation and when you eventually sell the house advertise that it’s there. If someone else wants to do the work then maybe it will increase the value of your home. You can put shelving in front of it or whatever, just don’t drill into that particular wall space.

staythecourse · Post by **staythecourse** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:53 am

J G Bankerton wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:02 am
staythecourse wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:37 am That is such a COOL story for a house to have.
The seller didn't even mention the drawing when the house was sold. I would research the radio station and the contest. When it comes to art it is all about the providence.

For me, I would NOT remove that painting. What else could you ask for, but a hand drawn painting from a famous painter? I don't even like art and think that is cool.

Good luck.

ohai · Post by **ohai** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:28 am

Hi. Based on the comments above, it really doesn't seem worthwhile for you to destroy your wall to extract this painting. Here's what I would do instead - buy a nice transparent acrylic or glass and frame the painting on the wall so you protect it for a long time. How much is your house worth? Let's say $500k. Someone will probably pay a bit more for your house in the future if it has some memorable characteristic. In the mean time, you can just keep the painting and enjoy looking at it.

mervinj7 · Post by **mervinj7** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:56 am

stoptothink wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:23 am
mervinj7 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:32 am
JMacDonald wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:40 pm I would put a frame around it under glass.

He painted the Sports Arena where I live:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beac ... Barena.jpg
+1 I would have gladly paid an extra $15k for a house with a custom Wyland. His work is wonderful. For the bathroom renovation, can you build another bathroom so you can preserve this wall?
He has some amazing work, but that? My wife and mother both could paint a more visually appealing dolphin, in very little time. If that were on my bathroom wall, it would have been painted over immediately.

My mind is blown. It's a Wyland! It doesn't really matter whether one thinks they could paint a more visually appealing dolphin. At the end of the day, its an unique piece of art by an very very famous artist. At the very least, its a great story for the house and should definitely increase the value more than a few extra cabinets for storage would. If it were my house, I would preserve the painting with transparent UV glass/acrylic and do my renovations around it. I wouldn't even attempt to take it out since part of the value is its unique history (radio contest winner) and canvas (the drywall of a bathroom).

cashmoney · Post by **cashmoney** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:59 am

THY4373 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:17 am OP I would guess as another poster noted that the gallery gave you an estimate of *retail* value of painting not what they were willing to pay. You very likely won't get anywhere near retail. Putting aside the complications of the medium the painting is on here, very likely if you were to sell to a gallery they would probably give you closer to 50% of retail value. Consigning via gallery or auction will eat up 10-25%+ of whatever the painting sells for. Also the gallery may have an interest in pricing your painting high since they want the market to be as high as possible. Before you go down the path of cutting up your wall I would probably seek out an appraiser (you will likely have to pay them something) to assess what you are likely to net for the painting. My hunch is that the painting may very well not be worth removing if doing so has any significant cost like cutting out a wall but who knows. Bottom line I would not rely on a free appraisal from a gallery to make a decision on cutting up the wall. You'll also likely have to assess the non zero risk the painting gets damaged on removal potentially hurting/eliminating its value.

Also look on Ebay sold listings for Wyland art.Looks like some of his original art sold for way less.

stoptothink · Post by **stoptothink** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:07 am

mervinj7 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:56 am
stoptothink wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:23 am
mervinj7 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:32 am
JMacDonald wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:40 pm I would put a frame around it under glass.

He painted the Sports Arena where I live:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beac ... Barena.jpg
+1 I would have gladly paid an extra $15k for a house with a custom Wyland. His work is wonderful. For the bathroom renovation, can you build another bathroom so you can preserve this wall?
He has some amazing work, but that? My wife and mother both could paint a more visually appealing dolphin, in very little time. If that were on my bathroom wall, it would have been painted over immediately.
My mind is blown. It's a Wyland! It doesn't really matter whether one thinks they could paint a more visually appealing dolphin. At the end of the day, its an unique piece of art by an very very famous artist. At the very least, its a great story for the house and should definitely increase the value more than a few extra cabinets for storage would. If it were my house, I would preserve the painting with transparent UV glass/acrylic and do my renovations around it. I wouldn't even attempt to take it out since part of the value is its unique history (radio contest winner) and canvas (the drywall of a bathroom).

To me, I don't care who painted it if it looks like something out of a 10yr old's sketchbook. "Art" that isn't actually something you enjoy looking at is such an odd concept to me.

ohai · Post by **ohai** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:12 am

Yes, but OP is concerned about monetary value. Painting over this art would destroy value overall.

Anyway, novelty and story is just as important as artistic complexity. I'd still like a book signed by Barrack Obama, even if I could argue my signature is nicer than his.

spectec · Post by **spectec** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:04 pm

Not sure why this issue has caught my attention. Maybe because I've encountered a couple of situations where I was trying to determine how best to invade a finished wall. (Assuming I want to keep the art work intact but want it gone. And assuming the project would be viable/profitable). In this type of situation, an often-overlooked solution is going in through the wall on the opposite side of the studs.

I'd begin by gaining access through that opposite wall. If it isn't an outside wall filled with insulation, I'd open up a few tiny holes (one at a time, probably sequentially between the studs) just large enough to insert a lighted fiber optic inspection cable to determine exactly what's in there. Sometimes there are interesting surprises hiding behind the drywall and between the studs. Total cost - maybe $500 - $800. This will enable a qualified contractor to provide a reasonable estimate of the cost of proceeding. If proceeding is not viable, then there would be some cost associated with repairing the tiny holes.

If the initial inspection determines it's feasible, obtain an estimate of the cost to open up the opposing wall, frame in the outer perimeter of the art work, keeping the original studs in place by cutting them with a plunge saw. After all 4 sides of the frame are secure, free up from the art side using a plunge saw or other precise cutting method. That will enable removal of the intact and well-supported art work for delivery to the buyer. Then restore the studs which were cut, either by using "sister boards" or by replacing each entire stud. (This all assumes this is a non-bearing wall, which could complicate this process immensely). Total cost - Maybe $1,500 to $3,000, depending upon how much work needs to be done to restore the opposite wall.

So my approach would entail a cost of about $500 - $800 for the initial assessment before determining if the $1,500 - $3,000 is worth investing. If you're not willing to do that, just follow the advice to cut it out around the perimeter with an exacto knife, restore any areas damaged by drywall screws, and hold your breath while you try to extract and carry out the flimsy drywall.

ohai · Post by **ohai** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:14 pm

If you are already demolishing the wall behind the mural, why wouldn't you build a "mini frame" around and behind the relevant drywall, and pull out the whole construction in one piece? This would protect the drawing from falling apart.

TimeRunner · Post by **TimeRunner** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:05 pm

"Bathroom by Wyland" is the signature. Whatever you decide to do, that's sly wit right there.

dm200 · Post by **dm200** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:46 pm

Much like "The Last Supper" https://www.leonardodavinci.net/the-last-supper.jsp

sunny_socal · Post by **sunny_socal** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:58 pm

I'd totally rip out that wall and sell it on ebay. You'll almost certainly find a 'greater fool' to part with some of their cash!

- Cut wall from the other side in preparation for the removal
- Attach a sheet of plywood to keep the area intact
- Remove with the studs and drywall in place, leave as much drywall as possible for the border
- Build a custom crate for shipping
- Let the buyer decide how to salvage the painting

IMO it's rather ugly, would paint over it under normal circumstances

celia · Post by **celia** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:52 pm

After looking at eBay, I don't think the painting has the financial value that the dealer estimated. Most of Wyland's paintings are in color. This is not even a painting, but a quick sketch. Someone who draws dolphins all the time could probably do this in 5-10 minutes. I'm not trying to minimize the value, but it is not as elaborate as anything else I see of his.

I would take the best photo of it that I could to help document the history of the house, then move on with the remodeling. Note that the previous owner and realtor did not think it was worth mentioning.

Thesaints · Post by **Thesaints** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:59 pm

Paolo Uccello's Battle of San Romano was divided in three panels. One of each with the National Gallery, the Louvre and the Uffizi.
Maybe the OP should separate the dry wall portions for maximum gain...

fru-gal · Post by **fru-gal** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:11 pm

Now that I look at it again, it is kind of cute. I would try to keep it, but I wouldn't do that big construction project to remove it.

J G Bankerton · Post by **J G Bankerton** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:35 pm

I know who Baxi is but I'm not sure I know who Wyland is. He seems more of a west coast artist. That said the drawing is worth what someone will pay for it. After he is dead it will be worth much more, like an Andy Warhol painting.

jabberwockOG · Post by **jabberwockOG** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:27 pm

For reasons others have posted it is very unlikely that you will be able to remove the wall painting intact without turning this into a much larger and very expensive project/effort. The resultant extracted wall mural might weigh 200-300 lbs or more and be very hard to move and get out of you house. Life is too short - if you like it keep it, if not paint over it.

csmath · Post by **csmath** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:10 pm

ohai wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:14 pm If you are already demolishing the wall behind the mural, why wouldn't you build a "mini frame" around and behind the relevant drywall, and pull out the whole construction in one piece? This would protect the drawing from falling apart.

This above may actually be your best bet. I've done full remodels before including removing, rebuilding, refinishing, etc of walls and with dimentions of 6ft x 3.5ft for the painting you are almost guaranteed to not only have nail/screw holes to worry about but also at least one seam where two sheets of drywall meet. Any seams will be EXTREMELY fragile unless it is old school plaster/lathe. In my opinion, that means there is zero chance that you remove it from the studs without ruining it if you simply try to remove it from the studs.

Regardless you will want access to it from behind. One idea would be to actually create a temporaryt stabilizing frame around it on the FRONT first that is larger in dimension than the area you wish to preserve. You could glue the framing right to the surrounding drywall. You can't really just pull the screws through the drywall without an enormous probability of damaging the surface. If you can build proper support in the front, and you have access to the back then you carefully cut the screws from the backside making sure to only damage the studs and not the drywall. Personally I would consider framing the backside and removing the studs and all. Once out there are many options for how to mount/frame it.

You need someone special to do this by the way. Most people who have experience with the drywall, studs, framing, etc may not also be cautious / detailed enough to move very slowly and carefully consider each step. For example, if you are going to build a frame using the existing studs you will be adding perpendicular supports before cutting it out. You would definitely want to cut the cross supports carefully so that they slide in easily and then use glue instead of nails or screws. Any torque on the studs themselves while framing may pop the front side.

Anyway, my 2cents. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.

Filetmerlot · Post by **Filetmerlot** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:40 pm

When you looked at the house how did this not come up? Did the realtor just say “ and this is the kids bathroom. Someone drew a silly dolphin drawing on the wall” Unless there is a stocked wine cellar/ humidor or an outdoor elevator from a balcony this would seem to be the coolest unique feature of a house?

Tortoisesque · Post by **Tortoisesque** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:09 pm

Thanks for all of the ideas and suggestions so far, everyone!

I hadn't even thought about the complication introduced by the weak points in the drywall where it attaches to the studs and also where it forms a seam with adjoining drywall panels. Sounds like a certified pain in the ass to remove undamaged.

Honestly, I have no idea why neither the seller nor either of the realtors made any mention of the Wyland painting on the bathroom wall. I just remember walking into the bathroom with my wife, and as soon as we saw the dolphin we immediately looked at each other, snickered, and said to each other, "Uh... if we buy this house, we'll definitely be painting over that thing when we move in." Neither of us had any idea who Wyland is, and since the previous owner is a very laid-back and social guy, we just figured one of his close friends is artistic and painted the dolphin on his buddy's bathroom wall to be quirky.

Don't get me wrong, the dolphin is certainly cute and unique; it's just not something we want taking up an entire wall of our bathroom. So whether we cut it out or paint over it, it will definitely not be staying on that wall when we remodel. One thing we plan to do either way is take a good photo of the painting, place the photo in a small frame, and hang it somewhere in the remodeled bathroom as a reminder that "Wyland was here."

I'll try to contact Wyland's corporate office sometime this week and update this thread to let all of you know what they tell me.

obafgkm · Post by **obafgkm** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:21 pm

J G Bankerton wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:02 am The seller didn't even mention the drawing when the house was sold. I would research the radio station and the contest. When it comes to art it is all about the providence.

That's "provenance."

spectec · Post by **spectec** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:26 pm

I was waiting for the original poster to edit that word, but maybe they didn't return to the discussion.

Ping Pong · Post by **Ping Pong** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:54 pm

The artist is still alive. If you really want this drawing, just mail a napkin with a self-addressed stamped envelope to him and he can create another one for you in a minute or two.

Teague · Post by **Teague** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:44 pm

Adding to the problems is that the signature includes "bathroom by Wyland." I think it would seem terribly out of place, and worth less, if not in a bathroom. Of course I suppose one could transplant it into another bathroom somewhere by way of another construction tragedy, but just getting it freed up sounds like Rube Goldberg had something to do with the planning.

SevenBridgesRoad · Post by **SevenBridgesRoad** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:03 am

Tortoisesque wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:09 pm Thanks for all of the ideas and suggestions so far, everyone!

I hadn't even thought about the complication introduced by the weak points in the drywall where it attaches to the studs and also where it forms a seam with adjoining drywall panels. Sounds like a certified pain in the ass to remove undamaged.

Honestly, I have no idea why neither the seller nor either of the realtors made any mention of the Wyland painting on the bathroom wall. I just remember walking into the bathroom with my wife, and as soon as we saw the dolphin we immediately looked at each other, snickered, and said to each other, "Uh... if we buy this house, we'll definitely be painting over that thing when we move in." Neither of us had any idea who Wyland is, and since the previous owner is a very laid-back and social guy, we just figured one of his close friends is artistic and painted the dolphin on his buddy's bathroom wall to be quirky.

Don't get me wrong, the dolphin is certainly cute and unique; it's just not something we want taking up an entire wall of our bathroom. So whether we cut it out or paint over it, it will definitely not be staying on that wall when we remodel. One thing we plan to do either way is take a good photo of the painting, place the photo in a small frame, and hang it somewhere in the remodeled bathroom as a reminder that "Wyland was here."

I'll try to contact Wyland's corporate office sometime this week and update this thread to let all of you know what they tell me.

Impressed, Topic Author. Your approach is extremely rational. It’s a ridiculous looking dolphin in the bathroom, by an artist seen as famous for some reason. But not for this dolphin. It’s telling the gallery you contacted didn’t jump on getting this secured from you.

I like your idea of a photo and Weyland was here reminder. Great story. Then...

Demo. Sheet rock. Paint.

renter · Post by **renter** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:35 am

How about put a big very nice mirror over it,then paint around the mirror. Later when you sell the house just remember to remove the mirror. Leave a note in your safe deposit box that there is treasure behind the mirror in case you die. This might add to the provenance.

westcoast · Post by **westcoast** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:43 am

Depending on what is on the backside of the bathroom wall, you could first remove the dry wall from the backside. This would give you a look at where the studs are before trying to remove the painting from the front side. Then go to painting side of wall measure the size of the painting you want and add 18 inches all around it. Drill some screws into the corners of the area you measured and draw a straight line to connect the corners. Make sure you covered the painting to protect it before cutting it out. Good luck.

Tortoisesque · Post by **Tortoisesque** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:26 am

renter wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:35 am How about put a big very nice mirror over it,then paint around the mirror. Later when you sell the house just remember to remove the mirror.

Not a bad idea! Unfortunately, in this case the painting is directly across from the toilet. So every person who sits on the toilet in that bathroom would then be staring directly at a full reflection of themselves about 2 feet in front of them when they're taking care of business.

It's also kind of weird to be staring at a big painting of Flipper while one is taking the Browns to the Super Bowl, so I guess it's a toss-up.

HoosierJim · Post by **HoosierJim** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:43 am

I recently cut a 5 x 5 foot square hole in my foyer to allow a large piece furniture to be moved into the house. Once the hole was complete, it was boxed and framed. Shelves now span the hole and the previous dark foyer now has some good sunlight. I can tell you that any stress on the front drywall will result in cracks if the rear is not fully stabilized. Freed up studs connected to the front drywall will not be secure. I did not need to worry about saving any drywall but I could have with the following procedure:

I would consider adding some fire-blocking cross studs then using a blow in foam insulation that sets up almost like concrete in the back side wall cavities and stabilize the backside section, then secure the backside with 1 inch plywood (where the backside drywall was removed). The foam must have room to expand toward the rear. Once that is secure - a series of wood screws would firmly secure the plywood to the studs (maybe 50 screws). This should create a monolithic stable rear structure for the painting.

Then I would put a thick felt layer over the painting, with a a plexiglass cover with a 1" inch plywood cover to put compression on the front side of the painting. If needed a couple of 2x4 with some jacking bolts could be used to keep pressure on the front side of the painting.

The outer perimeter of the painting and rear plywood would be secured with eye bolts (both sides) that you could then hoist/jack up the ceiling or floor to support the wall section while cutting all the way around. The cut line would be investigated/adjusted by using a magnet to avoid any nails or screws. A super sharp thin kerf blade with low vibration to the painting would be used and the blade changed at the slightest indication of dulling. The backside plywood would become the rear frame. The painting would be finished off with museum quality framing trim so the whole display portion would be the 2x4 width plus the 1" plywood rear plus the original drywall. The felt/plexiglas front would remain in place during transport.

I would also gather the story,receipts, video accounts, and any documentation (provenance) of the piece.