Used electric car - a good deal?
Used electric car - a good deal?
Hi,
I had seen a few years old used electric car like Nissan Leaf selling for less than 10K. Has anyone bought a used electric car? What was your experience? Was it a good deal?
KlangFool
I had seen a few years old used electric car like Nissan Leaf selling for less than 10K. Has anyone bought a used electric car? What was your experience? Was it a good deal?
KlangFool
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Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Can't give you a review quite yet, but I plan on purchasing a used 2016 BMW i3 in the coming months. It's hard to pass up to reasonable electric range, amenities, 0-30 mph pick-up, and very attractive pricing compared to new. I've already done to test drives, just waiting for rebuild the war chest after end of year accounting.
The Leaf is another good option and can be had for half the price of the BMW depending on the year and mileage. That said the BMW was just more fun and comfortable to me.
The Leaf is another good option and can be had for half the price of the BMW depending on the year and mileage. That said the BMW was just more fun and comfortable to me.
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Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Have no personal experience, but I have steered 3 people to buying used Leafs (off-lease vehicles with <30k miles for $8-$10k) and they all have had good experiences. Pick one up before the EV tax credit is gone and the off-lease ones are no longer a bargain.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Used EVs can be a great deal, many don't have a ton of miles on them (because of limited range), and some of the parts that need most maintenance and repairs on a ICE car don't exist. Battery health is a bigger concern with the Leaf than with others - there are reports of significant decreases in capacity, esp. in hotter environments. AFAIK the first-gen Leaf didn't have active cooling system, like most EVs do. There's a battery health indicator but apparently it can be manipulated. Recommend reading up on the specific forums to for more.
I lease a '18 Chevy Volt and love it. It's an incredibly practical car and gives the best of both worlds - full EV operation for 90% of my use, gasoline range when I need it. A used one (even the gen 1) will be more than the Leaf though.
I lease a '18 Chevy Volt and love it. It's an incredibly practical car and gives the best of both worlds - full EV operation for 90% of my use, gasoline range when I need it. A used one (even the gen 1) will be more than the Leaf though.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
I did not know that used ones were going that cheap. That is what, about 50-75% depreciation in the first 3 years! But you would be buying early technology. I don't think we can predict if was a good deal or not. I suspect batteries and motors are still in the early stage of development. It could be a great deal!
edit: or not
edit: or not
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Because of the various incentives, the net new price of these vehicles was far below MSRP. Taking that into consideration the real depreciation is much less than it would otherwise appear to be.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
The leaf is special in that it doesn't have active cooling for its battery like most EVs, this makes it highly susceptible to battery degradation in warm climates. This can take the sticker range down from 75 to 35 miles (depending on year) making it hard to fit into your regular driving.
If the car has been in Oregon its whole life and still shows most or all battery bars? Great, Oregon's climate is ideal for EVs. But if it comes with California "access ok" stickers and was owned by a transplant, be wary.
If the car has been in Oregon its whole life and still shows most or all battery bars? Great, Oregon's climate is ideal for EVs. But if it comes with California "access ok" stickers and was owned by a transplant, be wary.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Do you mean you can qualify for the tax credit if you purchase an off-lease Leaf, or do you mean to imply that they are good deals now because they qualified for the tax credit at the time they were leased or purchased?stoptothink wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:20 am Have no personal experience, but I have steered 3 people to buying used Leafs (off-lease vehicles with <30k miles for $8-$10k) and they all have had good experiences. Pick one up before the EV tax credit is gone and the off-lease ones are no longer a bargain.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
This is a common misconception about EVs. Battery capacity and chemistry continue to improve, but the existing technology is reliable and proven.
Electric cars have been around a lot longer than you think: https://www.curbed.com/2017/9/22/163468 ... y-fritchle
The the caveats about the Leaf's climate-related battery degradation notwithstanding, the underlying technology is proven. The Prius has been extremely reliable even in taxicab operation over hundreds of thousands of miles. The pure electrics are actually even a lot simpler than a Prius.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
^^Exactly. Electric motors have been around longer than internal combustion engines. The motors themselves are rather simple. (Sure, there's a lot of electronics behind running it...)
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
I would assume that advertised mileage would decrease with time. I walk to work most days. If I lived 25 miles from work, and had a way to plug in at both ends, I'd do electric. Even a well used should get you that far.
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
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Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
The latter.xerxes101 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:01 amDo you mean you can qualify for the tax credit if you purchase an off-lease Leaf, or do you mean to imply that they are good deals now because they qualified for the tax credit at the time they were leased or purchased?stoptothink wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:20 am Have no personal experience, but I have steered 3 people to buying used Leafs (off-lease vehicles with <30k miles for $8-$10k) and they all have had good experiences. Pick one up before the EV tax credit is gone and the off-lease ones are no longer a bargain.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
This^^^^z0r wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:56 am The leaf is special in that it doesn't have active cooling for its battery like most EVs, this makes it highly susceptible to battery degradation in warm climates. This can take the sticker range down from 75 to 35 miles (depending on year) making it hard to fit into your regular driving.
If the car has been in Oregon its whole life and still shows most or all battery bars? Great, Oregon's climate is ideal for EVs. But if it comes with California "access ok" stickers and was owned by a transplant, be wary.
Leafs are notorious for battery degradation
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
We have a 2014 i3.Here is my take after 4 years.GUtiger wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:17 am Can't give you a review quite yet, but I plan on purchasing a used 2016 BMW i3 in the coming months. It's hard to pass up to reasonable electric range, amenities, 0-30 mph pick-up, and very attractive pricing compared to new. I've already done to test drives, just waiting for rebuild the war chest after end of year accounting.
The Leaf is another good option and can be had for half the price of the BMW depending on the year and mileage. That said the BMW was just more fun and comfortable to me.
Nice car and fun to drive.Nice interior.
Tires have to be replaced about every 20 to 25,000 miles.
The back door/backseat is kind of a pain in the butt.
The ride is a bit bumpy because of the tires.
The range drops in time and in colder weather.
A good option if you need it for daily use close to home.
Charges in about 4 hours or so which we do at night.
A great option if you have solar panels like we do.
The price for used is very low compared to new even with rebate.
Ours has only 25,000 miles and I believe it’s resale value is only about 16,000 give or take.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Sure. None if that cganges the fact that Teslas are one of the most unreliable cars on the road. There is a kot to be said for having 50+ years of experience in building cars a certain way. I have no doubt in 20 years EVs will be super reliable. If they are close today is another story.
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Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
My understanding is the early Leaves had battery longevity issues even in mild climates. I learned of it from a coworker in Washington state with one. He also stated it had been fixed as of a couple years ago. I haven't looked into this in detail, but I'd suggest researching the topic more before buying a used Leaf, just in case.z0r wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:56 am The leaf is special in that it doesn't have active cooling for its battery like most EVs, this makes it highly susceptible to battery degradation in warm climates. This can take the sticker range down from 75 to 35 miles (depending on year) making it hard to fit into your regular driving.
If the car has been in Oregon its whole life and still shows most or all battery bars? Great, Oregon's climate is ideal for EVs. But if it comes with California "access ok" stickers and was owned by a transplant, be wary.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Yeah. It is something like a leaf stickers for 35k and is worth 15k in 3 years. Depreciations looks crazy. But if you buy new for 30k and get 10k of incentives (7500 feds + 2500 state/city/electric company) you are now paying 5k to drive a nww car for 3 years. Thats pretty cheap.
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Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
just got together with friends last night and they just got a 2012 nissan leaf. I believe they had max 60-70 miles per charge, but this varies based on heat, a/c, how many people are in the car, how fast you're going, etc. It automatically adjusts based on these factors so you can see how much charge you've got left. It seemed like it was more for shorter trips. They went to a town that's about 25 minutes away and said they made it there and back...but barely. So it's a good short term car, but they admitted they'd need to rent a car for longer distance driving.
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Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
That of course assumes that you can take the full tax deductions both Fed and State.randomguy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:47 pmYeah. It is something like a leaf stickers for 35k and is worth 15k in 3 years. Depreciations looks crazy. But if you buy new for 30k and get 10k of incentives (7500 feds + 2500 state/city/electric company) you are now paying 5k to drive a nww car for 3 years. Thats pretty cheap.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Yes on federal. State incentives may be different. For example in CA you can get the CVRP and utility rebates without any income tax liability. There’s even a higher rebate for those below a certain income threshold.smitcat wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:33 pmThat of course assumes that you can take the full tax deductions both Fed and State.randomguy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:47 pmYeah. It is something like a leaf stickers for 35k and is worth 15k in 3 years. Depreciations looks crazy. But if you buy new for 30k and get 10k of incentives (7500 feds + 2500 state/city/electric company) you are now paying 5k to drive a nww car for 3 years. Thats pretty cheap.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Yes. I just bought a used 2015 Nissan Leaf for $10.5K, 35,000 miles, certified pre owned with 12 bars on the battery health meter. Not particular to the leaf, but range varies depending on outside temp, so if you live somewhere cold you will get significantly reduced range (25%?) in the winter, but it comes back in the summer, the batteries just aren't as efficient when cold.
There are lots of "how to buy a used leaf" threads on the nissanleaf forums, but basically beware of cars that are from hot climates, as battery degradation is accelerated, and beware of pre 2013 and early 2013 leafs which had a different (worse) battery chemistry.
Is it a good deal? Well, I suppose it's subjective, but it gets me to work and back, saves me money on gas and is plenty comfortable for me. I know it's can be a hot button issue, but there is also the positive environmental impact of driving electric and of buying used, electric or not. Good enough for me. I was driving a 2003 honda civic sedan before this, so I'm feeling pretty fancy!
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
I agree with most of what has already been said, but as I have personal experience with the Leaf I thought it might still be worth weighing in.
I own a 2012 Nissan Leaf SL which I purchased in 2015 for $11.5k. It had 20k miles at the time, and I have since put another 30k miles on it, mostly via commuting. Whether this is a good deal for any given person is I think a fairly nuanced question, depending a lot on your situation. Here are some factors to consider, in no particular order.
I hope that is helpful!
I own a 2012 Nissan Leaf SL which I purchased in 2015 for $11.5k. It had 20k miles at the time, and I have since put another 30k miles on it, mostly via commuting. Whether this is a good deal for any given person is I think a fairly nuanced question, depending a lot on your situation. Here are some factors to consider, in no particular order.
- I live in the Pacific Northwest which is widely considered to be pretty much the ideal climate for the Leaf. Don't know where you live, but if you experience extended hot weather I'd rule out the Leaf because battery degradation is supposed to be significantly worse in hot climates.
- During the winter time, the range is noticeably decreased (maybe by 10 or 20%? It's hard to be sure). This is partially due to the energy cost of running the heater to defog the windshield, but I don't think it is entirely explained by that...
- The range of this car has definitely decreased while I've owned it. Right now, I can easily make my commute without charging (roughly 30 miles round trip), but there will come a day when that is no longer true. I suspect that day will come in roughly 2 years. Today, when I get home in the winter it often says I have 8 or 9 miles remaining, but... I don't believe it (see next). I would say my winter range is about 40-45 miles if I want to push it, maybe 50-60 miles in the summer.
- There is a gauge which purports to tell you how much range is remaining, but it is often comically incorrect and swings wildly about depending on how you happen to be driving right now, whether you have the heat on, etc. LEAF enthusiasts refer to this as the GOM, or "Guess-o-meter".
- Unless you drive only the shortest of distances, you WILL find yourself adjusting your driving habits to try to extend the range. Driving slower, accelerating slower, leaving the heat off except when you need to clear the windshield, etc. How much this bothers you is up to you.
- I purchased a L2 charging station to install in my garage, which makes a HUGE difference in how fast the car recharges and makes it much more practical to use it for more than one outing in a day. I highly recommend that. At the time I bought it there were significant state and federal tax incentives for buying and installing it, not sure if that is still true but worth investigating. I bought a ClipperCreek HCS-40 and have no complaints.
- Later model years of the Leaf (I think starting part way through the 2013 model year?) used a different battery chemistry which is supposed to have less problems with degradation. I haven't looked into that extensively though.
- I would say if the following is true this might be a good deal for you:
- You live in a climate which has mild summers (rarely hitting 100 for very long)
- You have a place where you can install a charging station -- so, maybe not great for apartment dwelling. Also, the cheaper electricity is in your area the better.
- This is not your only family car, but just a commute car or a "run errands around town" car. Or, if it is your only car, you are willing to seek other solutions like renting when taking a longer trip.
- Your commute fits comfortably within the range of the car, and will even when the range has degraded by another 20% or so... or, there are reliable and inexpensive places to charge where you're going.
I hope that is helpful!
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Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Air at 32F is about 10% denser than air at 80F. At lower temperatures there is a proportional increase in air resistance and lower mileage, particularly at highway speeds. Rain, snow or sand covered roads will also increase rolling resistance which may be more important at lower speeds.
ICE cars also experience decreased range (and mpg) in winter. My last pure ICE car range dropped from perhaps 350 miles to just under 300 in winter. The range of my Prius drops from 600 to perhaps 490. Shorter trips in the winter probably also hurt the range. This is easy to notice, although many people don't.
Even bicycles are affected, typically this shows up as a few tenths of a mph lower speed.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
One thing to consider is the the Leaf has a poor rating for the small overlap crash test.
https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehic ... hback/2017
An older leaf may also not have a lot of the advanced safety features that a lot of new cars have.
It is hard to put a dollar value on that but when you are looking at the Leaf compared to other alternatives be sure to factor that in.
https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehic ... hback/2017
An older leaf may also not have a lot of the advanced safety features that a lot of new cars have.
It is hard to put a dollar value on that but when you are looking at the Leaf compared to other alternatives be sure to factor that in.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Low temps slow down chemical reactions(i.e. your battery). You can see this with cell phone battery life in cold weather. I am guessing that dominates the reasons for lower range. The heater and denser air just add insult to injury.Epsilon Delta wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:49 pmAir at 32F is about 10% denser than air at 80F. At lower temperatures there is a proportional increase in air resistance and lower mileage, particularly at highway speeds. Rain, snow or sand covered roads will also increase rolling resistance which may be more important at lower speeds.
ICE cars also experience decreased range (and mpg) in winter. My last pure ICE car range dropped from perhaps 350 miles to just under 300 in winter. The range of my Prius drops from 600 to perhaps 490. Shorter trips in the winter probably also hurt the range. This is easy to notice, although many people don't.
Even bicycles are affected, typically this shows up as a few tenths of a mph lower speed.
Range number bake in a lot of assumptions about conditions and speed. You need to make sure they match your requirements.
The EV new versus used is really no different than any other car. I see a ton of cheap used i3s and Leafs. I also see a ton of i3s and leafs with big discounts or great lease deals.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Our 2014 i3 only has 25k miles and my wife drives it about 6000 miles a year.In 5 more years if we have about 50k miles on it will the battery become a concern?
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
I bought mine new and have 63k on battery with 12 bars still but am a battery geek.
If you area serious, buy the app Leaf Spy and the Bluetooth plug in to read the cars computer you are considering, it can give you good info on the health of the battery.
I like my car.
If you area serious, buy the app Leaf Spy and the Bluetooth plug in to read the cars computer you are considering, it can give you good info on the health of the battery.
I like my car.
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Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
+1, wouldn't recommend a Leaf to anyone as it doesn't have active thermal management for batteries and they degrade fast.02nz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:28 am Used EVs can be a great deal, many don't have a ton of miles on them (because of limited range), and some of the parts that need most maintenance and repairs on a ICE car don't exist. Battery health is a bigger concern with the Leaf than with others - there are reports of significant decreases in capacity, esp. in hotter environments. AFAIK the first-gen Leaf didn't have active cooling system, like most EVs do. There's a battery health indicator but apparently it can be manipulated. Recommend reading up on the specific forums to for more.
I lease a '18 Chevy Volt and love it. It's an incredibly practical car and gives the best of both worlds - full EV operation for 90% of my use, gasoline range when I need it. A used one (even the gen 1) will be more than the Leaf though.
I bought a used 2013 Volt two years back and I am very happy with it. People are still apprehensive about batteries/EVs which is why used Volts sell for a fraction of the cost, add to that that GM is about to stop manufacturing them.
Volt is the best car I ever owned, great torque/acceleration, reasonable prices (buying used), and I fill gas once a year+ get free charging at work.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
I purchased a 2011 Leaf SV in 2015 for 10k and have had it since. I unfortunately didn't know about the capacity bar before buying. Once I learned about it, I was disappointed to see that It was already down 3 bars. But after reading about Nissan extending the warranty on the battery to 5 years due to how the 2011-12 batteries had heat degradation problems, I kept watch hoping that I would be in the warranty window when the battery would drop another bar. As luck would have it, it dropped another bar 10 days before the warranty ran out. I scheduled the service immediately and got a free (I believe the battery cost is around $5k or so) updated "lizard battery" from Nissan in 2016 which supposedly had been made to be less susceptible to the damaging effects of heat. Since this time it has not dropped a single bar and I have been very pleased with the car.NickNack wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:21 pmThis^^^^z0r wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:56 am The leaf is special in that it doesn't have active cooling for its battery like most EVs, this makes it highly susceptible to battery degradation in warm climates. This can take the sticker range down from 75 to 35 miles (depending on year) making it hard to fit into your regular driving.
If the car has been in Oregon its whole life and still shows most or all battery bars? Great, Oregon's climate is ideal for EVs. But if it comes with California "access ok" stickers and was owned by a transplant, be wary.
Leafs are notorious for battery degradation
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Did you get the i3? If so, what do you think? I'm maybe considering one of these.GUtiger wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:17 am Can't give you a review quite yet, but I plan on purchasing a used 2016 BMW i3 in the coming months. It's hard to pass up to reasonable electric range, amenities, 0-30 mph pick-up, and very attractive pricing compared to new. I've already done to test drives, just waiting for rebuild the war chest after end of year accounting.
The Leaf is another good option and can be had for half the price of the BMW depending on the year and mileage. That said the BMW was just more fun and comfortable to me.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
We had a 2014 i3 with 30K miles.My wife loved the car with the only complaint being the very poor range. About 3 months agoSRenaeP wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:03 amDid you get the i3? If so, what do you think? I'm maybe considering one of these.GUtiger wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:17 am Can't give you a review quite yet, but I plan on purchasing a used 2016 BMW i3 in the coming months. It's hard to pass up to reasonable electric range, amenities, 0-30 mph pick-up, and very attractive pricing compared to new. I've already done to test drives, just waiting for rebuild the war chest after end of year accounting.
The Leaf is another good option and can be had for half the price of the BMW depending on the year and mileage. That said the BMW was just more fun and comfortable to me.
it got totaled in a fender bender,no exaggeration here, a fender bender. I was shocked that they totaled it.
Received a check for $12,300 and had to buy another car. My wife wanted another one so I found a 2018 i3 with 11,000 miles for 21K and bought it.
This one has a much better battery and the range is double the old one which was down to about 60 miles.
I like the car. Fun to drive,looks like nothing else on the road and is very comfortable. The seats are excellent and the overall quality is very good.
Last edited by hoops777 on Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Happy 2015 Leaf SV owner here. 11 bars, purchased 4-5 mo ago.
It's the perfect Bogleheads second car. Can squeak out 80 miles if I need to, or count on 60 miles of range no matter how I drive it.
TCO is much lower than an equivalent year/miles Corolla. Comfy, peppy, basic Japanese car that will likely go forever.
It's the perfect Bogleheads second car. Can squeak out 80 miles if I need to, or count on 60 miles of range no matter how I drive it.
TCO is much lower than an equivalent year/miles Corolla. Comfy, peppy, basic Japanese car that will likely go forever.
Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
This thread from last year might be useful.
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Re: Used electric car - a good deal?
Totally agree on the 2015 Leaf SV! We bought one from carvana back in May for $11.9K, it's been awesome. Had 42K miles on it and 10/12 bars of battery. Has worked out to about 70 max miles of range when doing errands around town.linuxizer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:58 am Happy 2015 Leaf SV owner here. 11 bars, purchased 4-5 mo ago.
It's the perfect Bogleheads second car. Can squeak out 80 miles if I need to, or count on 60 miles of range no matter how I drive it.
TCO is much lower than an equivalent year/miles Corolla. Comfy, peppy, basic Japanese car that will likely go forever.
We've ended up driving it almost exclusively. The times we've needed our alternate gas car are very rare, even though we've only been charging the car from a standard 15amp outlet in the garage (which takes longer).
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