My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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dknightd
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dknightd »

I have 50 crisp $100 notes I would trade for your crappy 2017 CRV. Actually, I'd have to go to the bank to get them ;)
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds (or none) from the market, invest the funds. Retired 9/19. Still working on mortgage payoff.
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JPH
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH »

CULater wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:53 am Just received this information from Polaris Labs, oil analysis laboratory, discussing oil contamination.
FUEL DILUTION
It is normal to see low levels of fuel in engine oils as a byproduct of the combustion/ignition process. When fuel levels start to exceed 1%, the lubricant's viscosity will begin to decrease. As the percent of fuel in oil increases the lubricant's ability maintain a full fluid film and protect against boundary wear is decreased. Fuel in oil will also dilute additives which could lead to other wear and performance issues. Some engines are more prone to high fuel dilution, but this does not mean that the fuel will not harm the engine.
I just received my latest report from Blackstone concerning my Honda 1.5L DI Turbo engine. This time I waited until the Maintenance Minder showed only 10% remaining oil life. My thinking was that this sample would give me a data point for the worst case scenario. That was 7,001 miles on the oil (Honda synthetic 0W/20). My previous specimens had shown 4.5% fuel at 1,989 miles and 4.8% at 4,952 miles. Surprisingly, the fuel was only 0.8% in this sample despite a lot more miles driven. According to the report, <2% is normal, so I am well within the normal range. Wear metals were closer to the upper end of the normal range, but only silicon (+1 point), sodium (+1 point), and magnesium (+176 points) actually exceeded the upper limit. The technician wrote, "wear metals increased, but that's no big deal. This oil was run longer, so more metal is expected just from normal accumulation."

I cannot explain why fuel dilution is absent after driving more miles. I'm happy for those good results, but am now a bit confused about scheduling future oil changes.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt
smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat »

JPH wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:31 pm
CULater wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:53 am Just received this information from Polaris Labs, oil analysis laboratory, discussing oil contamination.
FUEL DILUTION
It is normal to see low levels of fuel in engine oils as a byproduct of the combustion/ignition process. When fuel levels start to exceed 1%, the lubricant's viscosity will begin to decrease. As the percent of fuel in oil increases the lubricant's ability maintain a full fluid film and protect against boundary wear is decreased. Fuel in oil will also dilute additives which could lead to other wear and performance issues. Some engines are more prone to high fuel dilution, but this does not mean that the fuel will not harm the engine.
I just received my latest report from Blackstone concerning my Honda 1.5L DI Turbo engine. This time I waited until the Maintenance Minder showed only 10% remaining oil life. My thinking was that this sample would give me a data point for the worst case scenario. That was 7,001 miles on the oil (Honda synthetic 0W/20). My previous specimens had shown 4.5% fuel at 1,989 miles and 4.8% at 4,952 miles. Surprisingly, the fuel was only 0.8% in this sample despite a lot more miles driven. According to the report, <2% is normal, so I am well within the normal range. Wear metals were closer to the upper end of the normal range, but only silicon (+1 point), sodium (+1 point), and magnesium (+176 points) actually exceeded the upper limit. The technician wrote, "wear metals increased, but that's no big deal. This oil was run longer, so more metal is expected just from normal accumulation."

I cannot explain why fuel dilution is absent after driving more miles. I'm happy for those good results, but am now a bit confused about scheduling future oil changes.
Thank you for a detailed report on the 1.5 engine.
Maybe you can answer some other related questions:
- what was the mileage on the engine at the start of that 7,001 miles?
- did you have the Honda software 'fix' installed at any time before or during this oil life test?
- has any other work been performed on the cars engine or cooling systems?
- Did you get the TBN number? Do you know what the Honda 0W/20 TBN is when new?
- Who extracted the sample and how?
- had anyone removed any oil from the engine during your 7,001 miles driven?
JohnF
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JohnF »

JPH wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:31 pm
CULater wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:53 am Just received this information from Polaris Labs, oil analysis laboratory, discussing oil contamination.
FUEL DILUTION
It is normal to see low levels of fuel in engine oils as a byproduct of the combustion/ignition process. When fuel levels start to exceed 1%, the lubricant's viscosity will begin to decrease. As the percent of fuel in oil increases the lubricant's ability maintain a full fluid film and protect against boundary wear is decreased. Fuel in oil will also dilute additives which could lead to other wear and performance issues. Some engines are more prone to high fuel dilution, but this does not mean that the fuel will not harm the engine.
I just received my latest report from Blackstone concerning my Honda 1.5L DI Turbo engine. This time I waited until the Maintenance Minder showed only 10% remaining oil life. My thinking was that this sample would give me a data point for the worst case scenario. That was 7,001 miles on the oil (Honda synthetic 0W/20). My previous specimens had shown 4.5% fuel at 1,989 miles and 4.8% at 4,952 miles. Surprisingly, the fuel was only 0.8% in this sample despite a lot more miles driven. According to the report, <2% is normal, so I am well within the normal range. Wear metals were closer to the upper end of the normal range, but only silicon (+1 point), sodium (+1 point), and magnesium (+176 points) actually exceeded the upper limit. The technician wrote, "wear metals increased, but that's no big deal. This oil was run longer, so more metal is expected just from normal accumulation."

I cannot explain why fuel dilution is absent after driving more miles. I'm happy for those good results, but am now a bit confused about scheduling future oil changes.
Were most of the miles put on during the hot summer months?
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JPH
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH »

smitcat wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:42 pm Thank you for a detailed report on the 1.5 engine.
Maybe you can answer some other related questions:
- what was the mileage on the engine at the start of that 7,001 miles? 14799
- did you have the Honda software 'fix' installed at any time before or during this oil life test? No
- has any other work been performed on the cars engine or cooling systems? No
- Did you get the TBN number? Do you know what the Honda 0W/20 TBN is when new? Did not
- Who extracted the sample and how? Mechanic during drain for oil change
- had anyone removed any oil from the engine during your 7,001 miles driven? No
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JPH
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH »

JohnF wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:35 am Were most of the miles put on during the hot summer months?
February to November in South Texas. Never very cold here. Lots of short trips.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt
smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat »

JPH wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:28 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:42 pm Thank you for a detailed report on the 1.5 engine.
Maybe you can answer some other related questions:
- what was the mileage on the engine at the start of that 7,001 miles? 14799
- did you have the Honda software 'fix' installed at any time before or during this oil life test? No
- has any other work been performed on the cars engine or cooling systems? No
- Did you get the TBN number? Do you know what the Honda 0W/20 TBN is when new? Did not
- Who extracted the sample and how? Mechanic during drain for oil change
- had anyone removed any oil from the engine during your 7,001 miles driven? No
This sounds really good at 15,000 miles.
As far as how long you can run between oil changes one of the key ingredients is the remaining TBN # - if enough additives remain then its no problem.
By knowing the original base TBN of the new 'unused' oil and the remaining TBN at the 7,000 miles you are in great shape to make the call.
Generally sounds like going about 7K miles and/or to 10% left on oil life meter is a good plan.
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simplesimon
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by simplesimon »

We took our new baby seat to CarMax to see which small SUV's it would fit in the best while allowing for the front seats not be pushed way forward (I'm 6'3" and my wife is 5'11") and the CRV was the winner by a mile. I don't know why the CRV's spacing is so different from the RAV4 and CX-5. We are likely going to pull the trigger on the 2019 model soon and hope for the best...
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RootSki
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by RootSki »

In 2018, the Honda CR-V was the third best selling vehicle in America that wasn't a truck, and only the Civic sells better for Honda globally. However, the American arm of Honda has recently been served with two separate lawsuits in relation to the popular crossover. One is regarding a possible structural defect, and the second is over malfunctioning infotainment screens. According to the lawsuits, the complaints are from owners of 2017-2019 Honda CR-Vs.
https://carbuzz.com/news/angry-honda-cr ... tic-action

Someone needs to tell these folks about the oil dilution problem.
prd1982
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by prd1982 »

Not surprising that several folks are complaining about <put component name here>. What is interesting is how the lawyers are trying to say that the failures are safety related and therefore require a recall. Of course, that would also mean a LOT more money for the lawyers
Joel
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Joel »

Did anyone else get a notice in the mail about the class action lawsuit against Honda in the State of Minnesota?
My investment policy statement: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=190093
prd1982
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by prd1982 »

Joel wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:08 am Did anyone else get a notice in the mail about the class action lawsuit against Honda in the State of Minnesota?
Yes. I'm in CT. I'm taking the default choice: extended warranty plus software fix, and giving up opportunity to sue. No noticeable problems with my CRV so far.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Joel »

prd1982 wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:03 am
Joel wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:08 am Did anyone else get a notice in the mail about the class action lawsuit against Honda in the State of Minnesota?
Yes. I'm in CT. I'm taking the default choice: extended warranty plus software fix, and giving up opportunity to sue. No noticeable problems with my CRV so far.
Same here. I didn’t expect to be the first to post in this thread about it though!
My investment policy statement: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=190093
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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

Joel wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:08 am Did anyone else get a notice in the mail about the class action lawsuit against Honda in the State of Minnesota?
What does it say?
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prd1982
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by prd1982 »

CULater wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:26 am What does it say?
Gives you 4 options:

1. Submit claim for reimbursement for Towing Expenses, Oil Change Expenses and Past Diagnostic Costs. Also get warranty extension and product update.

2. Get out of lawsuit, but no warranty extension or reimbursement. Can sue yourself.

3. Comment in writing about the settlement. Remain member of Settlement Class

4. Do nothing. Get warranty extension and product update. Cannot sue separately.
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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

prd1982 wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:47 am
CULater wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:26 am What does it say?
Gives you 4 options:

1. Submit claim for reimbursement for Towing Expenses, Oil Change Expenses and Past Diagnostic Costs. Also get warranty extension and product update.

2. Get out of lawsuit, but no warranty extension or reimbursement. Can sue yourself.

3. Comment in writing about the settlement. Remain member of Settlement Class

4. Do nothing. Get warranty extension and product update. Cannot sue separately.
How about reimbursement for pain and suffering? And being kicked to the curb by Honda?
On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.
CorduroyGivenToFly
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

I have a 2018 CRV and believe my car suffers from this. I never took it in for that alone. Check engine light (and all the others) came on just past 40,000 miles. Took it in to the dealer and they put in a software update and the lights went off. The next day, they lights came on again and they diagnosed it with a bad fuel injector kit based on the cylinder misfire code. Hondacare (which I bought) paid for it. I asked them if they thought this was related to the oil dilution and they said no because I mostly drove it on non-short trips in California. Haven’t had any other issues with the car before or since then, although haven’t driven it much during the shut down and this isssue happened just before that. None of the oil shops I’ve taken the car to for oil changes said my oil looked or smelled like anything unusual, and I asked a couple of them about it.
CorduroyGivenToFly
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CorduroyGivenToFly »

I have a 2018 CRV and believe my car suffers from this because I smell gas in the cabin when the a/c is pulling in air from outside. As a result of this, i always use recirculate, which works well.

Check engine light (and all the others) came on just past 40,000 miles. Took it in to the dealer and they put in a software update and the lights went off. The next day, they lights came on again and they diagnosed it with a bad fuel injector kit based on the cylinder misfire code. Hondacare (which I bought) paid for it. I asked them if they thought this was related to the oil dilution and they said no because I mostly drove it on non-short trips in California. Haven’t had any other issues with the car before or since then, although haven’t driven it much during the shut down and this isssue happened just before that. None of the oil shops I’ve taken the car to for oil changes said my oil looked or smelled like anything unusual, and I asked a couple of them about it.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by BeachPerson »

CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 5:44 pm I have a 2018 CRV and believe my car suffers from this because I smell gas in the cabin when the a/c is pulling in air from outside. As a result of this, i always use recirculate, which works well.

Check engine light (and all the others) came on just past 40,000 miles. Took it in to the dealer and they put in a software update and the lights went off. The next day, they lights came on again and they diagnosed it with a bad fuel injector kit based on the cylinder misfire code. Hondacare (which I bought) paid for it. I asked them if they thought this was related to the oil dilution and they said no because I mostly drove it on non-short trips in California. Haven’t had any other issues with the car before or since then, although haven’t driven it much during the shut down and this isssue happened just before that. None of the oil shops I’ve taken the car to for oil changes said my oil looked or smelled like anything unusual, and I asked a couple of them about it.

I was all so lucky. I was ready to trade my 2013 Honda Accord for the Honda CRV. I am glad that I found this threat two years ago. I bought a RAV4 and it is super!!!!
From Jack Brennan's "Straight Talk on Investing", page 23 "Living below your means is the ultimate financial strategy"
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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater »

BeachPerson wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 6:27 pm
CorduroyGivenToFly wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 5:44 pm I have a 2018 CRV and believe my car suffers from this because I smell gas in the cabin when the a/c is pulling in air from outside. As a result of this, i always use recirculate, which works well.

Check engine light (and all the others) came on just past 40,000 miles. Took it in to the dealer and they put in a software update and the lights went off. The next day, they lights came on again and they diagnosed it with a bad fuel injector kit based on the cylinder misfire code. Hondacare (which I bought) paid for it. I asked them if they thought this was related to the oil dilution and they said no because I mostly drove it on non-short trips in California. Haven’t had any other issues with the car before or since then, although haven’t driven it much during the shut down and this isssue happened just before that. None of the oil shops I’ve taken the car to for oil changes said my oil looked or smelled like anything unusual, and I asked a couple of them about it.

I was all so lucky. I was ready to trade my 2013 Honda Accord for the Honda CRV. I am glad that I found this threat two years ago. I bought a RAV4 and it is super!!!!
Good move. I started the thread to give prospective buyers a "heads up" about the CRV and hopefully save at least one person the headaches I've experienced with the vehicle. Mission Accomplished!
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SmallCityDave
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by SmallCityDave »

I assume that this issue is with all Honda 1.5T engines and it has not yet been resolved?

I was looking at a new 2019 Honda Accord yesterday and I remembered this thread.
azanon
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by azanon »

SmallCityDave wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:39 am I assume that this issue is with all Honda 1.5T engines and it has not yet been resolved?

I was looking at a new 2019 Honda Accord yesterday and I remembered this thread.
Same question - looking at a 2020 CR-V myself. This has been fixed in the new ones right? I'm assuming so since they're selling hundreds of thousands of them?
prd1982
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by prd1982 »

azanon wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:41 am
Same question - looking at a 2020 CR-V myself. This has been fixed in the new ones right? I'm assuming so since they're selling hundreds of thousands of them?
Some of us believe Honda when they say it is fixed; others do not. I can only say that I haven't heard of a large number of people saying there is still a problem since the fix (which was before the 2020s came out).
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tibbitts »

azanon wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:41 am
SmallCityDave wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:39 am I assume that this issue is with all Honda 1.5T engines and it has not yet been resolved?

I was looking at a new 2019 Honda Accord yesterday and I remembered this thread.
Same question - looking at a 2020 CR-V myself. This has been fixed in the new ones right? I'm assuming so since they're selling hundreds of thousands of them?
I don't think everybody believes it's been fixed, but I'm not an expert so I can't say. I think if I were Honda and I'd fixed it, that engine wouldn't be a 1.5 any more, it would be some other displacement, since everybody would associate 1.5 with a horrible engine design. As I've pointed out in other threads Hyundai/Kia still sells all their cars (that I know of) with bucket valve lifters, so Honda doesn't have a monopoly on horrible engine designs. It seems like for all the amazing advancements that have happened in automobiles, and how much more theoretically reliable they've become overall, some really basic durability has been lost.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH »

I went ahead and joined a class action lawsuit (Fath v. American Honda Motor Co., Inc.) concerning oil dilution, and I received a letter today informing me that if/when the judge approves the proposed final settlement I would receive $173.16 in reimbursement for oil analysis and extra oil changes. Information about the settlement at https://www.settlement-claims.com/OilDilution/
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by SmallCityDave »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:02 am
azanon wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:41 am
SmallCityDave wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:39 am I assume that this issue is with all Honda 1.5T engines and it has not yet been resolved?

I was looking at a new 2019 Honda Accord yesterday and I remembered this thread.
Same question - looking at a 2020 CR-V myself. This has been fixed in the new ones right? I'm assuming so since they're selling hundreds of thousands of them?
I don't think everybody believes it's been fixed, but I'm not an expert so I can't say. I think if I were Honda and I'd fixed it, that engine wouldn't be a 1.5 any more, it would be some other displacement, since everybody would associate 1.5 with a horrible engine design. As I've pointed out in other threads Hyundai/Kia still sells all their cars (that I know of) with bucket valve lifters, so Honda doesn't have a monopoly on horrible engine designs. It seems like for all the amazing advancements that have happened in automobiles, and how much more theoretically reliable they've become overall, some really basic durability has been lost.
When you start adding in a turbo and a cvt the chances of reliability decrease by a fair amount.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat »

SmallCityDave wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:35 pm
tibbitts wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:02 am
azanon wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:41 am
SmallCityDave wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:39 am I assume that this issue is with all Honda 1.5T engines and it has not yet been resolved?

I was looking at a new 2019 Honda Accord yesterday and I remembered this thread.
Same question - looking at a 2020 CR-V myself. This has been fixed in the new ones right? I'm assuming so since they're selling hundreds of thousands of them?
I don't think everybody believes it's been fixed, but I'm not an expert so I can't say. I think if I were Honda and I'd fixed it, that engine wouldn't be a 1.5 any more, it would be some other displacement, since everybody would associate 1.5 with a horrible engine design. As I've pointed out in other threads Hyundai/Kia still sells all their cars (that I know of) with bucket valve lifters, so Honda doesn't have a monopoly on horrible engine designs. It seems like for all the amazing advancements that have happened in automobiles, and how much more theoretically reliable they've become overall, some really basic durability has been lost.
When you start adding in a turbo and a cvt the chances of reliability decrease by a fair amount.
Surprisingly there is still not one example of a failed oil test or any engine failures ...or even a loss of power or performance complaint.
So far it seems It would be good if all cars/trucks had a reliability record just like these reports.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by BeachPerson »

Nice video by Scotty on the Honda oil problem.

Scotty on Honda's problem

Has anyone purchased a 2020 Honda CRV? If so, is the problem fixed?
From Jack Brennan's "Straight Talk on Investing", page 23 "Living below your means is the ultimate financial strategy"
smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat »

BeachPerson wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:44 pm Nice video by Scotty on the Honda oil problem.

Scotty on Honda's problem

Has anyone purchased a 2020 Honda CRV? If so, is the problem fixed?
If Scotty is correct then are not all of our high pressure diesels also doomed?
rmdashrfsplat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by rmdashrfsplat »

BeachPerson wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:44 pm Nice video by Scotty on the Honda oil problem.

Scotty on Honda's problem

Has anyone purchased a 2020 Honda CRV? If so, is the problem fixed?
Scotty: "Always put the right amount of oil in - 4.7 quarts." lol that is the wrong amount of oil
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by prd1982 »

BeachPerson wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:44 pm Nice video by Scotty on the Honda oil problem.

Has anyone purchased a 2020 Honda CRV? If so, is the problem fixed?

This video was made in April 2019. So don't consider it current information.

As to the 2020: A lot of us, including Honda, think the problem was fixed for the 2017, and didn't exist for later years.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by vasaver »

SmallCityDave wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:35 pm
tibbitts wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:02 am
azanon wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:41 am
SmallCityDave wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:39 am I assume that this issue is with all Honda 1.5T engines and it has not yet been resolved?

I was looking at a new 2019 Honda Accord yesterday and I remembered this thread.
Same question - looking at a 2020 CR-V myself. This has been fixed in the new ones right? I'm assuming so since they're selling hundreds of thousands of them?
I don't think everybody believes it's been fixed, but I'm not an expert so I can't say. I think if I were Honda and I'd fixed it, that engine wouldn't be a 1.5 any more, it would be some other displacement, since everybody would associate 1.5 with a horrible engine design. As I've pointed out in other threads Hyundai/Kia still sells all their cars (that I know of) with bucket valve lifters, so Honda doesn't have a monopoly on horrible engine designs. It seems like for all the amazing advancements that have happened in automobiles, and how much more theoretically reliable they've become overall, some really basic durability has been lost.
When you start adding in a turbo and a cvt the chances of reliability decrease by a fair amount.
Are CVTs inherently unreliable? The Toyota Prius has a pretty good track record.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by BeachPerson »

vasaver wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:36 pm
SmallCityDave wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:35 pm
tibbitts wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:02 am
azanon wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:41 am
SmallCityDave wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:39 am I assume that this issue is with all Honda 1.5T engines and it has not yet been resolved?

I was looking at a new 2019 Honda Accord yesterday and I remembered this thread.
Same question - looking at a 2020 CR-V myself. This has been fixed in the new ones right? I'm assuming so since they're selling hundreds of thousands of them?
I don't think everybody believes it's been fixed, but I'm not an expert so I can't say. I think if I were Honda and I'd fixed it, that engine wouldn't be a 1.5 any more, it would be some other displacement, since everybody would associate 1.5 with a horrible engine design. As I've pointed out in other threads Hyundai/Kia still sells all their cars (that I know of) with bucket valve lifters, so Honda doesn't have a monopoly on horrible engine designs. It seems like for all the amazing advancements that have happened in automobiles, and how much more theoretically reliable they've become overall, some really basic durability has been lost.
When you start adding in a turbo and a cvt the chances of reliability decrease by a fair amount.
Are CVTs inherently unreliable? The Toyota Prius has a pretty good track record.

Scotty on CVTs

Scotty has Youtube videos on CVTs. He loves Toyota CVTs. Scotty does believe CVTs are the
future since the gas mileage is better.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by AllMostThere »

I have read this thread with interest for awhile now as I knew DW & I would be in market for new vehicle. I must say that I am shocked and horrified how HONDA has handled this issue. Nothing like kicking current customers to the curb and allowing social media to alienate future customers. Needless to say, HONDA was not even considered by us. We went with a Subaru CrossTrek for our purchase. Cannot be more happy with our purchase. :beer
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat »

AllMostThere wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:22 am I have read this thread with interest for awhile now as I knew DW & I would be in market for new vehicle. I must say that I am shocked and horrified how HONDA has handled this issue. Nothing like kicking current customers to the curb and allowing social media to alienate future customers. Needless to say, HONDA was not even considered by us. We went with a Subaru CrossTrek for our purchase. Cannot be more happy with our purchase. :beer
Some recent items to watch out for with the Subaru Crosstrek's....
https://www.lemberglaw.com/2019-subaru- ... nts-lemon/
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by LadyGeek »

Please stay on-topic. Feel free to post in existing threads (search the forum), or start a new thread.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JackoC »

smitcat wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:00 am
SmallCityDave wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:35 pm
tibbitts wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:02 am
azanon wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:41 am
SmallCityDave wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:39 am I assume that this issue is with all Honda 1.5T engines and it has not yet been resolved?
I was looking at a new 2019 Honda Accord yesterday and I remembered this thread.
Same question - looking at a 2020 CR-V myself. This has been fixed in the new ones right? I'm assuming so since they're selling hundreds of thousands of them?
I don't think everybody believes it's been fixed, but I'm not an expert so I can't say. I think if I were Honda and I'd fixed it, that engine wouldn't be a 1.5 any more, it would be some other displacement, since everybody would associate 1.5 with a horrible engine design. As I've pointed out in other threads Hyundai/Kia still sells all their cars (that I know of) with bucket valve lifters, so Honda doesn't have a monopoly on horrible engine designs. It seems like for all the amazing advancements that have happened in automobiles, and how much more theoretically reliable they've become overall, some really basic durability has been lost.
When you start adding in a turbo and a cvt the chances of reliability decrease by a fair amount.
Surprisingly there is still not one example of a failed oil test or any engine failures ...or even a loss of power or performance complaint.
So far it seems It would be good if all cars/trucks had a reliability record just like these reports.
FWIW here's both the 1-5 overall reliability score and above/below average score for 'major engine' from Consumer Reports for recent model CR-V's:
2016 overall 5/5, major engine 'much better than average'
2017 overall 3/5, major engine 'better than average'
2018 overall 4/5, major engine 'better than average'
2019 overall 5/5, major engine 'much better than average'
2020 overall 5/5, major engine 'much better than average'

So per CR this problem does not seem to show up in terms of concrete ramifications the way you would think by reading through 24 pages of this thread. Anecdotally, my daughter has a 2018. After learning of this issue I sniffed the dipstick and I thought there was a slight gasoline odor (who knows if it's confirmation bias?). She got the software patch (which critics claim 'does nothing') and you get the warranty extension. There have been no actual problems with the engine, which as just one car doesn't prove anything but again CR stats don't seem to indicate a big problem so far statistically. I'm not happy about it. I bought the car and it was a close call between it and the Subaru Forester, she had no preference. Having known of it, I would have gotten the Subaru. But it also seems possible to exaggerate how big a deal this has actually been.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dbr »

JackoC wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:47 pm I bought the car and it was a close call between it and the Subaru Forester, she had no preference. Having known of it, I would have gotten the Subaru. But it also seems possible to exaggerate how big a deal this has actually been.
But then you also need to read all the postings on the web about how many problems one is going to have with the Subaru -- CVT, oil consumption, cracking windshields, etc., etc. You also have to do the same thing for anything else you consider. Powers forbid it be an expensive German import or a Volvo. Then it could be a Jeep or a Ford.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JackoC »

dbr wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:32 am
JackoC wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:47 pm I bought the car and it was a close call between it and the Subaru Forester, she had no preference. Having known of it, I would have gotten the Subaru. But it also seems possible to exaggerate how big a deal this has actually been.
But then you also need to read all the postings on the web about how many problems one is going to have with the Subaru -- CVT, oil consumption, cracking windshields, etc., etc. You also have to do the same thing for anything else you consider. Powers forbid it be an expensive German import or a Volvo. Then it could be a Jeep or a Ford.
I see your point. User forums self select toward people reporting problems. Especially in case of boring cars like CR-V or Forester; what else would you talk about besides problems? I post on BMW M2 forum sometimes, but that's an actually interesting car besides any problems (which there don't seem to be many of actually). Still, the CR-V thing was a not that minor so I think if I'd known of it it might have pushed the toss up decision to the Forester (though I'd read of the oil consumption issue there).

And per CR stats as I gave for CR-V, Forester is similarly statistically very reliable. Notably better than FCA or Ford products generally. This forum tends to exaggerate the reliability issues of German luxury makes IMO, some models score quite well per CR, others don't. Cost of repair is a more objectively valid issue for those makes. But if the M2 breaks (though my 6 yr old 328, now my son's, has had no problems), I'll just get it fixed. I don't worry about it. My daughter having car problems is more of a concern to me, but the CR-V has had no actual breakdowns or any other issue (at ~36k miles now) besides faint gasoline smell on the dipstick, at least once.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dbr »

JackoC wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:30 am
dbr wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:32 am
JackoC wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:47 pm I bought the car and it was a close call between it and the Subaru Forester, she had no preference. Having known of it, I would have gotten the Subaru. But it also seems possible to exaggerate how big a deal this has actually been.
But then you also need to read all the postings on the web about how many problems one is going to have with the Subaru -- CVT, oil consumption, cracking windshields, etc., etc. You also have to do the same thing for anything else you consider. Powers forbid it be an expensive German import or a Volvo. Then it could be a Jeep or a Ford.
I see your point. User forums self select toward people reporting problems. Especially in case of boring cars like CR-V or Forester; what else would you talk about besides problems? I post on BMW M2 forum sometimes, but that's an actually interesting car besides any problems (which there don't seem to be many of actually). Still, the CR-V thing was a not that minor so I think if I'd known of it it might have pushed the toss up decision to the Forester (though I'd read of the oil consumption issue there).

And per CR stats as I gave for CR-V, Forester is similarly statistically very reliable. Notably better than FCA or Ford products generally. This forum tends to exaggerate the reliability issues of German luxury makes IMO, some models score quite well per CR, others don't. Cost of repair is a more objectively valid issue for those makes. But if the M2 breaks (though my 6 yr old 328, now my son's, has had no problems), I'll just get it fixed. I don't worry about it. My daughter having car problems is more of a concern to me, but the CR-V has had no actual breakdowns or any other issue (at ~36k miles now) besides faint gasoline smell on the dipstick, at least once.
I have a Subaru Outback. I have had none of the problems everyone writes about, but I had two years of wrangling with bizarre check engine light problems that were eventually resolved by the dealer finally realizing the problem existed from day one in a slightly defective battery. In the meantime Subaru spent thousands of warranty repair dollars replacing computers and giving me free loaners trying to fix the problem. I give the dealer major credit for taking the problem seriously and excoriate Subaru for not having diagnostic procedures in hand to figure out the problem. It doesn't help when all they know how to do is get a fault code and replace whatever device is generating the code even if that device is actually not defective at all.

But the lesson is the problem any one person has with a car is not predictable from what is written about on the web. It does turn out if you really explore the user forums you can find other people who had my problem, but it is one in ten against people complaining about something else.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat »

JackoC wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:30 am
dbr wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:32 am
JackoC wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:47 pm I bought the car and it was a close call between it and the Subaru Forester, she had no preference. Having known of it, I would have gotten the Subaru. But it also seems possible to exaggerate how big a deal this has actually been.
But then you also need to read all the postings on the web about how many problems one is going to have with the Subaru -- CVT, oil consumption, cracking windshields, etc., etc. You also have to do the same thing for anything else you consider. Powers forbid it be an expensive German import or a Volvo. Then it could be a Jeep or a Ford.
I see your point. User forums self select toward people reporting problems. Especially in case of boring cars like CR-V or Forester; what else would you talk about besides problems? I post on BMW M2 forum sometimes, but that's an actually interesting car besides any problems (which there don't seem to be many of actually). Still, the CR-V thing was a not that minor so I think if I'd known of it it might have pushed the toss up decision to the Forester (though I'd read of the oil consumption issue there).

And per CR stats as I gave for CR-V, Forester is similarly statistically very reliable. Notably better than FCA or Ford products generally. This forum tends to exaggerate the reliability issues of German luxury makes IMO, some models score quite well per CR, others don't. Cost of repair is a more objectively valid issue for those makes. But if the M2 breaks (though my 6 yr old 328, now my son's, has had no problems), I'll just get it fixed. I don't worry about it. My daughter having car problems is more of a concern to me, but the CR-V has had no actual breakdowns or any other issue (at ~36k miles now) besides faint gasoline smell on the dipstick, at least once.
"My daughter having car problems is more of a concern to me, but the CR-V has had no actual breakdowns or any other issue (at ~36k miles now) besides faint gasoline smell on the dipstick, at least once."
Same here - we have two of those engines in our family and no problems over a combined 65K miles now - no breakdowns, no performmance degradation and no loss of mileage. With the help of some local respected mechanics we have tried to identify any of these engines which have suffered any failures at all - similar to this forum's posts we have not been able to find one yet.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Frugal Al »

vasaver wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:36 pm
Are CVTs inherently unreliable? The Toyota Prius has a pretty good track record.
The CVT in the Prius, and all Toyota hybrids is what they call an ECVT, and is a very different technology from conventional CVT's which Toyota uses in some of their non-hybrid vehicles. The ECVT uses motor generators in conjunction with a planetary gearset. There are no chains/belts or spindles/cones. Toyota's ECVT is a very reliable piece of tech.

Conventional CVT's, on the other hand, have had a somewhat mixed history, especially the Nissans. Still, they've improved a great deal and there are many high mileage vehicles with few problems. They generally are not repairable, however, and are replaced as a unit. Anyone with a conventional CVT should ensure they do the mfrr's recommended maintenance and not hot rod or otherwise abuse the tranny. Although some mfrrs allow light towing, I would not tow anything with a conventional CVT tranmission vehicle.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by ondarvr »

Some 2017 and 18s had oil dilution problems, after 2019 it doesn't seem to be much of problem.

Aside from DI Turbo engines frequently experiencing "some" oil dilution, there were fuel injector problems on many 17 and 18 CRVs. This was masked by looking at other more typical causes of OD.

The injectors were covered under the warranty, and in some states this warranty is extended to 7 or more years.

It can be difficult to get a Honda dealer to investigate it for you, many aren't aware of the TSBs on CRVs. Which is odd, since they are one of the best selling vehicles.

You need to get the information yourself and present it to the dealer far too often.

I have a CRV, and the Honda forums were on fire with this topic until the 19s were introduced. Honda appears to have solved the problem internally, and the affected earlier vehicles seem to have been taken care of for the most part.

And like mentioned, after years of screaming on the forums nobody has reported premature failures in these motors. The civics had these engines two years earlier in 2016, and didn't seem to have the OD problem, and the 1.5 is holding up well high performance mods in these civics. I had 2017 civic too, it was a great car.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by BeachPerson »

ondarvr wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:27 pm Some 2017 and 18s had oil dilution problems, after 2019 it doesn't seem to be much of problem.

Aside from DI Turbo engines frequently experiencing "some" oil dilution, there were fuel injector problems on many 17 and 18 CRVs. This was masked by looking at other more typical causes of OD.

The injectors were covered under the warranty, and in some states this warranty is extended to 7 or more years.

It can be difficult to get a Honda dealer to investigate it for you, many aren't aware of the TSBs on CRVs. Which is odd, since they are one of the best selling vehicles.

You need to get the information yourself and present it to the dealer far too often.

I have a CRV, and the Honda forums were on fire with this topic until the 19s were introduced. Honda appears to have solved the problem internally, and the affected earlier vehicles seem to have been taken care of for the most part.

And like mentioned, after years of screaming on the forums nobody has reported premature failures in these motors. The civics had these engines two years earlier in 2016, and didn't seem to have the OD problem, and the 1.5 is holding up well high performance mods in these civics. I had 2017 civic too, it was a great car.

Does the Accord with the 1.5L engine have the oil dilution problem?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by ondarvr »

The Civics and Accords didn't seem to have the problem, while this type of engine may be prone to more OD, only the CRV had it to a significant degree. I'm sure there are a few out there though.

The tuning is different for each model, so while it's the same engine package, there are differences. And I only know of the CRV having injector problems.

Part of the problem was thought to be that the larger almost empty engine compartment on CRV didn't allow it to warm up quickly, or completely.

Honda didn't really say what the fix was, it was probably many small changes that added up to a reasonable solution.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Soccerplayergoals »

Hi, does anyone know how to identify if the 2018 crv EX is at risk for this problem. For example, through certain vin numbers, parts numbers, or other unique identifiers? I would lime to buy one but am concerned that 8’ll be buying one that has this oil / gas problem. Thank you!
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by TLC1957 »

Soccerplayergoals wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:44 pm Hi, does anyone know how to identify if the 2018 crv EX is at risk for this problem. For example, through certain vin numbers, parts numbers, or other unique identifiers? I would lime to buy one but am concerned that 8’ll be buying one that has this oil / gas problem. Thank you!
If the CRV has the turbo engine you have the potential to have the problem. I have a 2017 with the turbo engine with 45k and no problem so far.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Soccerplayergoals »

Thank you for your feedback. Good to hear! Has anyone come across something unique on these models that has led to the problem (ex: part manufactured in a certain location, or a certain batch, etc)?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by rmdashrfsplat »

Soccerplayergoals wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:44 pm Thank you for your feedback. Good to hear! Has anyone come across something unique on these models that has led to the problem (ex: part manufactured in a certain location, or a certain batch, etc)?
None that I have heard of. It is likely part of the vehicle design. There are theories on CR-V message boards that some 2017s had a bad run of injectors which may have exacerbated the issue.

Things could change as more miles are racked up, but there has not been much chatter on this issue on CR-V boards for a while now.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Soccerplayergoals »

Thanks for sharing! Last thing I want to do is to purchase the 2018 CRV EX as a certified pre-owned vehicle and then find out that there’s a problem like this.
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