Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

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kjvmartin
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Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by kjvmartin »

I'm in my early 30s and I just reached 9 years at my public service job (salaried law enforcement). It's a 4 year degree job earning about $65k/year. No pension. This is something I kind of enjoy, but lately it's getting a little stale. Until about last year, I had no desire to promote or change gears, but I've been displeased with the direction the agency is heading & how it effects my day-to-day life. I do good work and receive excellent reviews and some commendations. There are some management openings where I would reach a 16% increase over my current salary, and there's a fair chance of obtaining one of those slots without any additional education. Our upper management is mostly 4 year degree people and they don't take advanced degrees into consideration for promotions (more "who you know" than "what you know").

I'm thinking about an MPA to change careers.

An old college acquaintance completed an MPA public policy program after undergrad. She just received a mid level promotion with the federal government starting at $155,000/year. I could become the state level director of my agency (lol) and not come close to that income. Also, having kids mades me less keen on the whole risking life/limb aspect of my current job.

I don't have a lot of specific questions, but I'd be interested in hearing from current or former MPA students about career ideas, prospects, job outlook, specializations. One of my biggest concerns (which actually stopped my degree application process) is the recent hiring freeze on federal government employees (yikes). There is a health care management specialization, but I have no background there and health care seems a bit of a mess, overall?
Last edited by kjvmartin on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wellfleet
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by Wellfleet »

Beyond what an old friend is up to, think about jobs you would like to have at some point and determine what the qualification are to get that position. Are there certifications that you can get that serve the same purpose, etc? Try looking on indeed.com and insert the qual you have to see how many opening there are around the country with the new degree.
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kjvmartin
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by kjvmartin »

Wellfleet wrote:Beyond what an old friend is up to, think about jobs you would like to have at some point and determine what the qualification are to get that position. Are there certifications that you can get that serve the same purpose, etc? Try looking on indeed.com and insert the qual you have to see how many opening there are around the country with the new degree.
It has been a consideration for a while - there are various federal openings where an MPA is suitable. My current LE line of work also has a federal branch, but it's nigh impossible to get in. I'm trying to break into more of an "analyst" type position. I may be required to start at the state level with no increase in salary, but my goal would be to move into federal service as soon as possible. Indeed does not seem to have government posts, but USA Jobs is the general place to go for those openings.

kjvm
Yankuba
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by Yankuba »

I'm 37 and work for the federal government. I completed ~16 years of federal service and hope to retire early with the pension @ 25 years of service.

My plan after I retire at 47 is to transition into the non-profit sector. So a few years ago I decided to get my MPA - part time (I also have kids) - at a local commuter school in NYC. It costs about $1500 a class and there are 14 required classes. Plus about $1200 per year in fees.

The MPA has some interesting courses (economics, statistics, finance and accounting) but there was a ton of overlap with my undergraduate degree (economics, statistics, management, finance/accounting, civics), so I can't give the degree my full recommendation. In a perfect world I would have been able to place out of the subjects I already took. We also don't spend a lot of time on current issues - we've spent 30 minutes on income inequality, zero minutes on the ACA and zero minutes on the election. I also have no idea if the degree will help me transition into an entry level non-profit job when I retire. Most of my classmates are in their 20s and are getting the degree in order to receive a bump in pay from their current employer or because it's a recommended degree for those in non-profits and government. We also have a lot of nurses and teachers who are getting the degree in order to move into managerial roles in those fields. Some folks hope to use the degree to transition into government or non-profit work, but these people are the minority.
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kjvmartin
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by kjvmartin »

Yankuba wrote:I'm 37 and work for the federal government. I completed ~16 years of federal service and hope to retire early with the pension @ 25 years of service.

My plan after I retire at 47 is to transition into the non-profit sector. So a few years ago I decided to get my MPA - part time (I also have kids) - at a local commuter school in NYC. It costs about $1500 a class and there are 14 required classes. Plus about $1200 per year in fees.
How's the work/life/school balance part time? Would full time be impossible? Are you finding it difficult to get back into the swing of things so far off from your 4 year degree? My 4 year degree was in social work, so all of those courses you described will be newish.

kjvm
Yankuba
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by Yankuba »

kjvmartin wrote:
Yankuba wrote:I'm 37 and work for the federal government. I completed ~16 years of federal service and hope to retire early with the pension @ 25 years of service.

My plan after I retire at 47 is to transition into the non-profit sector. So a few years ago I decided to get my MPA - part time (I also have kids) - at a local commuter school in NYC. It costs about $1500 a class and there are 14 required classes. Plus about $1200 per year in fees.
How's the work/life/school balance part time? Would full time be impossible? Are you finding it difficult to get back into the swing of things so far off from your 4 year degree? My 4 year degree was in social work, so all of those courses you described will be newish.

kjvm
Funny that you did social work. I wanted to get a MSW, but none of the local programs were part time and they all required two internships with full time hours. So I decided on the MPA. Boston University offers an online MSW but it was an absurd amount of money. $70k or more I believe.

I'm only taking one class per semester - one evening a week from 6PM to 9PM. The teachers assign a lot of reading but I've noticed that there is little correlation between the readings and the assessments so you don't actually have to do most of the readings. Most of the assessments are essays and there have been very few in classroom exams. If you look at RateMyProfessor.com and speak to your classmates you can avoid the teachers that give the most work. I definitely worked harder in college and high school - my MPA program is not rigorous at all.

It has been difficult taking some of the assignments seriously due to my age and due to the fact that nobody is ever going to look at a MPA transcript.

Full time would definitely be a challenge. If you took the courses at night you wouldn't get to see your family and you would have a ton of reading and homework. Most students in my program work full time but don't have families. They take two classes a semester and two during the summer and finish in two to three years. I'm taking one class a semester and stopped summer classes so it will take me 6 years. But there's no rush because I wouldn't try to use the degree until 2026 or so.
JimSmiley1850
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by JimSmiley1850 »

One alternative thought -- have you considered getting an MBA. It is a very flexible degree and I've found MBAs in govt and the non-profit sector. Much of non-profit leadership is enterprenerial, marketing and requires a solid basis in cost controls. I have the impression there are many good MBA part time programs in the NYC area. An MPA is perceived to have little value in the business world while an MBA in my experience is valued just as much as an MPA in the non-profit world. (Full disclosure I have an MBA and worked in govt. consulting and then moved to pure private sector consulting). Good luck
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kjvmartin
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by kjvmartin »

JimSmiley1850 wrote:One alternative thought -- have you considered getting an MBA. It is a very flexible degree and I've found MBAs in govt and the non-profit sector. Much of non-profit leadership is enterprenerial, marketing and requires a solid basis in cost controls. I have the impression there are many good MBA part time programs in the NYC area. An MPA is perceived to have little value in the business world while an MBA in my experience is valued just as much as an MPA in the non-profit world. (Full disclosure I have an MBA and worked in govt. consulting and then moved to pure private sector consulting). Good luck
I had not considered it, but I will certainly look into the idea.
flyingbison
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by flyingbison »

Yankuba wrote: The teachers assign a lot of reading but I've noticed that there is little correlation between the readings and the assessments so you don't actually have to do most of the readings. Most of the assessments are essays and there have been very few in classroom exams. If you look at RateMyProfessor.com and speak to your classmates you can avoid the teachers that give the most work. I definitely worked harder in college and high school - my MPA program is not rigorous at all.
Sounds like a waste of time and money.
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kjvmartin
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by kjvmartin »

flyingbison wrote:
Yankuba wrote: The teachers assign a lot of reading but I've noticed that there is little correlation between the readings and the assessments so you don't actually have to do most of the readings. Most of the assessments are essays and there have been very few in classroom exams. If you look at RateMyProfessor.com and speak to your classmates you can avoid the teachers that give the most work. I definitely worked harder in college and high school - my MPA program is not rigorous at all.
Sounds like a waste of time and money.
There does seem to be a wide range of MPA programs. For example, just looking at random schools that have online programs without a statistics requirement or the Michigan school of public policy which asks you to take calculus. They also require the GRE. Many schools do not. The person I know doing very well with her MPA went to a commuter college for an in person degree.
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kjvmartin
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by kjvmartin »

flyingbison wrote:
Yankuba wrote: The teachers assign a lot of reading but I've noticed that there is little correlation between the readings and the assessments so you don't actually have to do most of the readings. Most of the assessments are essays and there have been very few in classroom exams. If you look at RateMyProfessor.com and speak to your classmates you can avoid the teachers that give the most work. I definitely worked harder in college and high school - my MPA program is not rigorous at all.
Sounds like a waste of time and money.
Does a program need to be rigorous to be worth the money? If he can use this degree to increase his earnings, or start a 2nd career, it wouldn't be a waste, would it?

I'm bumping this thread also to see if anyone else has feedback on the MPA. Seems to be a little known or discussed degree on BH.

kjvm
Countermoon
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by Countermoon »

Yankuba wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:11 pm
kjvmartin wrote:
Yankuba wrote:I'm 37 and work for the federal government. I completed ~16 years of federal service and hope to retire early with the pension @ 25 years of service.

My plan after I retire at 47 is to transition into the non-profit sector. So a few years ago I decided to get my MPA - part time (I also have kids) - at a local commuter school in NYC. It costs about $1500 a class and there are 14 required classes. Plus about $1200 per year in fees.
How's the work/life/school balance part time? Would full time be impossible? Are you finding it difficult to get back into the swing of things so far off from your 4 year degree? My 4 year degree was in social work, so all of those courses you described will be newish.

kjvm
Funny that you did social work. I wanted to get a MSW, but none of the local programs were part time and they all required two internships with full time hours. So I decided on the MPA. Boston University offers an online MSW but it was an absurd amount of money. $70k or more I believe.

I'm only taking one class per semester - one evening a week from 6PM to 9PM. The teachers assign a lot of reading but I've noticed that there is little correlation between the readings and the assessments so you don't actually have to do most of the readings. Most of the assessments are essays and there have been very few in classroom exams. If you look at RateMyProfessor.com and speak to your classmates you can avoid the teachers that give the most work. I definitely worked harder in college and high school - my MPA program is not rigorous at all.

It has been difficult taking some of the assignments seriously due to my age and due to the fact that nobody is ever going to look at a MPA transcript.

Full time would definitely be a challenge. If you took the courses at night you wouldn't get to see your family and you would have a ton of reading and homework. Most students in my program work full time but don't have families. They take two classes a semester and two during the summer and finish in two to three years. I'm taking one class a semester and stopped summer classes so it will take me 6 years. But there's no rush because I wouldn't try to use the degree until 2026 or so.
This is exactly how I felt about the two MPA courses I took at a local university. I enrolled after working for a few years at my state's central budgeting agency. I remember thinking at the end of the courses, "I learned all of this in the first two years of my job." It was an intense, fast-paced job and I was able to soak up a great deal of knowledge during my time there.

I'm now about 5 years removed from those courses. I am the director of finance at a state government agency and have no plans to leave this particular job. I found this thread because I've been thinking about getting a graduate certificate or master's degree, but more for the credential than anything else. When I say that out loud, it makes me realize that it is probably a waste of time and money to enroll. I won't receive any bump in pay if I complete a program; my employer won't pay for a dime of it; and I've come to believe that many MPA programs teach only "soft" skills and are geared primarily toward helping young professionals get the proverbial foot in the door.

Did you continue with the MPA? Does anyone else have any thoughts on pursuing one, even when there may not be much of a benefit outside of the added credential?
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Sandi_k
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by Sandi_k »

@Countermoon, this is a zombie thread, but I'm a college administrator with experience of MPA and MPP degrees.

The MPP is a traditional two year degree; the MPA is one year, with a grueling schedule. Both have core required courses, such as Quantitative Methods, Econ, Leadership, Government, Policy Implementation, Cost-Benefit Analysis.

MPP is geared towards those with a BA/BS and ~ 5 years work experience; the MPA is more mid-career. Graduates of the MPP are averaging ~ $80k annual salaries; not sure about the MPA stats right now.

Feel free to PM if you have specific questions.
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by eddot98 »

I have an MPA, also a BS in Civil Engineering, and a Professional Engineers License. I worked in a state Transportation Agency where almost all the people outside of high level political appointees and Human Resources were engineers. Managers were promoted from the engineering ranks by scores on Civil Service tests from the top three scorers. Managerial skills were learned on the job and, usually, not very well. Managerial training was offered, but not required. My experience is dated - my BSCE was from 1973 and my MPA was attained in 1991 from State University of NY at Albany. We had a lot of guest professors from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard. Our program had classes on the weekends so that I could continue working and was essentially free of any monetary costs. I learned a lot of things that engineers are not taught. I thought that the MPA would be valued by managers when I scored in the top three and needed an edge to get the promotion. I was wrong - no one in our agency valued my MPA. I still am happy that I learned the skills required to be a better manager, but I did spend a lot of time and effort on the degree. I am proud that I did attain a 4.0 average.
L82GAME
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by L82GAME »

I have an MPA. If you’re still interested this topic feel free to PM me.
"Simplify, simplify, simplify! I say, let your affairs be as two or three, and not a hundred or a thousand…” - Thoreau
calwatch
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by calwatch »

eddot98 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:23 pm I have an MPA, also a BS in Civil Engineering, and a Professional Engineers License. I worked in a state Transportation Agency where almost all the people outside of high level political appointees and Human Resources were engineers. Managers were promoted from the engineering ranks by scores on Civil Service tests from the top three scorers. Managerial skills were learned on the job and, usually, not very well. Managerial training was offered, but not required. My experience is dated - my BSCE was from 1973 and my MPA was attained in 1991 from State University of NY at Albany. We had a lot of guest professors from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard. Our program had classes on the weekends so that I could continue working and was essentially free of any monetary costs. I learned a lot of things that engineers are not taught. I thought that the MPA would be valued by managers when I scored in the top three and needed an edge to get the promotion. I was wrong - no one in our agency valued my MPA. I still am happy that I learned the skills required to be a better manager, but I did spend a lot of time and effort on the degree. I am proud that I did attain a 4.0 average.
I'm in a similar position as a civil engineer originally doing technical work, but now do budgeting and programming for engineering projects. While the MPA program I took (at a local state school, after work) did not have strong financial component, the concepts I learned there were useful. I don't particularly use the policy analysis or the qualitative/quantitative research components, but understanding the policy process is always helpful in my day job. I can't say it provides an edge in promotions - the division chief did not get a masters' and most of the managers under her have technical masters', not MPAs or MBAs. In my agency, it might help to get into a first supervisory position, but there are plenty of supervisors who just learned on the job. Eventually if I find the right opportunity I want to move onto the small town circuit (City Engineer/Director of Public Works for a jurisdiction of 25-50k) and I think this would help there.
Countermoon
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by Countermoon »

Thank you all for the replies. eddot98 and calwatch both said something interesting: their managers/agencies did not put a lot of value in an MPA. I find this to be the case, at least generally, across state government. Most people in managerial roles worked their way into them, whether via tenure and civil service exams or by appointment.

I do think there is a generational shift occurring. It seems many people my age (early 30's) and younger have some sort of graduate education. That doesn't answer the question of whether that really benefits someone who is mid-career or if it was useful only as a tool to enter the profession. It does make me worry that a lack of graduate credentials could hurt me someday. If I'm up against other job candidates who have MPAs, that could be the tiebreaker.

I'm more inclined to do a graduate certificate rather than a full MPA. With a certificate, I can focus on my particular area of interest and expertise (public budgeting and finance) and avoid many of the courses that would not benefit me. My wife works for a university and said that certificate programs are becoming more popular by the year.
nyx328
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by nyx328 »

MPA programs vary widely. I did an MPA at an Ivy League school and found it very rigorous, of course, but also extremely applicable to what I wanted to do. An MPA is also partially an MBA-light. At a good program, you’ll do econ (a lot of it), stats, ops, system dynamics, probably some SQL and R, and then also more focused classes based on your concentration. A good MPA program should also have an internship requirement. I did mine with the State Department, but if you’re interested in the non-profit world, a lot of students in my cohort did that too.
inepteft
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Re: Any MPA Grads or Students? Advice.

Post by inepteft »

I have an MPA degree and now am on the faculty for an MPA program. Pre-service students benefit from the degree opening doors to government and nonprofit careers, especially when they have little experience in the field. In-service students often use the MPA as a credential for advancement, to broaden their expertise beyond an existing niche role, or to reinvigorate their enthusiasm for the field and have an opportunity for learning that often does not occur within the daily demands of a job.

Countermoon might consider a cohort-based executive MPA program, where everyone is at a similar place in their careers and courses/projects/networks are adjusted accordingly. Often the executive programs have lower credit requirements. Alternately, in a traditional program you might use the courses as an opportunity to focus on where you see your next stop in government or emerging topics.

Certificates are increasingly available and the credits can often be rolled into the degree program if you change your mind later. There are plenty of reasonably-priced, high-quality, and flexible public university programs out there to consider, since the payback for a high-priced program probably doesn't make a lot of sense given the OP's current position. It may differ across programs, but you can get more than soft skills pursuing an MPA and many programs allow you to take electives in other disciplines if desired.
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