Cancel collision coverage on older car?

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miamivice
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by miamivice »

Most financial-type people suggest this as far as insurance: Can you afford the cost of replacing the vehicle, or can you afford to go without the vehicle, in the event you are at fault for totaling?

If the answer is yes, you are likely to be ahead by self-insuring, because insurance is a for-profit industry that pays less out in claims than they collect every year.
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beyou
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by beyou »

Could you afford to buy another of similar cost if this was totaled ?
Do you NEED the car (sounds like you don't drive it much) ?

If you don't need the car and could afford to buy another in same price range, why pay even $133 for collision ?

For my home and newer cars, I always keep a high deductible so I can pay myself for small accidents, and reduce my fixed annual costs.
Variable costs that may never come is always preferable to certain fixed costs, whenever possible.

Now if you were driving in heavy daily traffic in a major city to work daily, maybe the insurance would be worth it, but I don't think so in your case. My wife commutes to work daily many years ago had accidents during her commute, so I would err on the side of keeping insurance on her car, but still high deductible. I drive to train station and back, and my car sits there all day in the parking lot. Once value drops I would drop collision on the "station" car.
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dm200
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by dm200 »

But here's what I haven't figured out or asked on insurance coverage transferring to rental car coverage:
What if you have more than one car, one being fully insured on comp/collision and the other with only liability coverage?
Are you covered when you rent??
My understanding is that you are covered.
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dm200
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by dm200 »

miamivice wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:52 am Most financial-type people suggest this as far as insurance: Can you afford the cost of replacing the vehicle, or can you afford to go without the vehicle, in the event you are at fault for totaling?

If the answer is yes, you are likely to be ahead by self-insuring, because insurance is a for-profit industry that pays less out in claims than they collect every year.
Yes - I agree with this "logic"

Although I think "afford" might be altered to say "afford and be willing to"
Benbo
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by Benbo »

[/quote]

One factor for keeping collision coverage a little bit longer is that if another party is at fault for damage to your car - and the other party or insurance company balks at paying, file a collision claim and your insurance company will fight it for you.
[/quote]

To expand on this, my girlfriend had an accident where the other driver was 100% at fault. We still had to deal with getting the car out of the tow yard, and then selling it for scrap. It was a major PITA, having collision would have taken care of this.
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DanMahowny
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by DanMahowny »

I don't carry comprehensive or collision on a brand new car, ever.

I know that's a bit extreme, but my insurance costs are super low.
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miamivice
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by miamivice »

Benbo wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:40 pm To expand on this, my girlfriend had an accident where the other driver was 100% at fault. We still had to deal with getting the car out of the tow yard, and then selling it for scrap. It was a major PITA, having collision would have taken care of this.
That is interesting. I have had three cars totalled in my life. Once was my fault. That time I had a scrap yard buy the car directly from the tow yard. The other two times the other drivers were at fault, and their insurance took care of hauling away the vehicles. None of the times was a pain.
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dm200
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by dm200 »

DanMahowny wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:44 pm I don't carry comprehensive or collision on a brand new car, ever.
I know that's a bit extreme, but my insurance costs are super low.
Yes and yes! :happy :happy

It has been my experience and opinion that you can often get better, more cost effective, and more complete repairs from a collision when your Insurance company is watching the repairs. They handle request for changes (increases) to the initial repair estimates and I am sure my insurance company is much better at this than I could ever be.
SixAlpha
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by SixAlpha »

I also keep collision on my older cars. I’ve had 3 not-at fault accidents in the past 5 years. Two of them, the other driver did not have insurance. My insurance paid and said they would refund the deductible if they could successfully sue them other driver for the damages.

Worth it for me for the peace of mind.
miamivice
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by miamivice »

SixAlpha wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:24 pm I also keep collision on my older cars. I’ve had 3 not-at fault accidents in the past 5 years. Two of them, the other driver did not have insurance. My insurance paid and said they would refund the deductible if they could successfully sue them other driver for the damages.

Worth it for me for the peace of mind.
These claims were not paid your collision insurance, but rather your uninsured driver's insurance.

Collision insurance covers repairs to your vehicle when you are at fault. Not at fault accidents are covered either by the other driver's insurance or by your uninsured drivers insurance.
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dm200
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by dm200 »

miamivice wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:27 pm
SixAlpha wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:24 pm I also keep collision on my older cars. I’ve had 3 not-at fault accidents in the past 5 years. Two of them, the other driver did not have insurance. My insurance paid and said they would refund the deductible if they could successfully sue them other driver for the damages.

Worth it for me for the peace of mind.
These claims were not paid your collision insurance, but rather your uninsured driver's insurance.
Collision insurance covers repairs to your vehicle when you are at fault. Not at fault accidents are covered either by the other driver's insurance or by your uninsured drivers insurance.
Not necessarily (may depend on state).
michaelingp
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by michaelingp »

I re-instated collision on my 15 y.o. Honda for the rental car reason. It was only $37 a year if I remember. The problem I had with the credit card coverage is you have to read the small print. The big problem for me was there was a limit to the number of consecutive days. I just didn't want the hassle of dealing with the credit card company and running afoul of that or some other limit in the fine print. I believe my insurance company said that you only had to have collision on one of your cars to be covered for a rental car, but be sure to check your own policy.
ralph124cf
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by ralph124cf »

OnTrack wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:58 pm A few people have mentioned that one reason to keep the collision insurance is so that car rental insurance can be declined. While I compleatly agree with this reasoning, there are a couple of caveats. First, in the case that a rental car is totaled, the car rental company will probably require that the cost of a new replacement car be paid, not the depreciated cost that the driver's insurance company is likely to pay, so the renter would have to pay the difference. Second, the car rental company is likely to require that until the car is repaired or replaced that the renter pay for each day that they don't have the car available to rent.

I fully agree that the car rental company will try this.

If you have collision insurance, plus the credit card insurance, then you have two companies that will fight the car rental company on this for you.

Ralph
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by Starfish »

DanMahowny wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:44 pm I don't carry comprehensive or collision on a brand new car, ever.

I know that's a bit extreme, but my insurance costs are super low.
I had the same philosophy, but I went through an accident were I was not at fault and the other driver insurance refused to pay. As my insurance had nothing to pay (I had collision but 2000$ deductible) they were not interested in picking up the fight.
michaelingp
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by michaelingp »

dm200 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:49 pm

It has been my experience and opinion that you can often get better, more cost effective, and more complete repairs from a collision when your Insurance company is watching the repairs. They handle request for changes (increases) to the initial repair estimates and I am sure my insurance company is much better at this than I could ever be.
My (recent) experience as well. I recently had a tree limb damage my van. The insurance adjuster said $1,100 to fix, which I think almost all body shops will accept. If not, the insurance guy will direct you to ones that will. In this case, I didn't take their recommendation, and I took the van to a firm I trusted, and the bill came back at $1,600, with a $500 "adjustment" for the insurance. As you predicted, in the process, the body shop asked for an increase, but I guess the insurance company negotiated no increase. I am quite sure I would have paid $1,600 without the insurance company pressure. For example, I know I would have paid $600 for the parts, for which the body shop accepted the $350 estimate from the insurance company. Whether this is good or bad for body shops, I don't know, since the insurance companies probably have a lot of power compared to small businesses. By the way, the repair was absolutely perfect.
OnTrack
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by OnTrack »

ralph124cf wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:18 pm
OnTrack wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:58 pm A few people have mentioned that one reason to keep the collision insurance is so that car rental insurance can be declined. While I compleatly agree with this reasoning, there are a couple of caveats. First, in the case that a rental car is totaled, the car rental company will probably require that the cost of a new replacement car be paid, not the depreciated cost that the driver's insurance company is likely to pay, so the renter would have to pay the difference. Second, the car rental company is likely to require that until the car is repaired or replaced that the renter pay for each day that they don't have the car available to rent.

I fully agree that the car rental company will try this.

If you have collision insurance, plus the credit card insurance, then you have two companies that will fight the car rental company on this for you.

Ralph
I don't see how the insurance company would fight the car rental company? I think the insurance company would simply fulfill its contractual obligation to pay the depreciated value. It would have no obligation to contest the rental company's bill for the additional amount to buy a new car or to pay for lost rental fees due to the car not being available to rent. Furthermore, these costs are in the fine print of the contract that you sign when you rent a car, so it is difficult to contest.
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by HawkeyePierce »

I drive an eight year old Honda. I don't need it to get to work and drive fewer than 5000 miles year. Blue book value is about $8500. Based on that, I don't carry collision.

If the car were totaled and I was at-fault, I could go without the car. I bus/bike to work and live across the street from a grocery store so it's not needed on a daily basis. If I wanted to replace it, I could buy a comparable car with cash without putting a major strain on my budget.
SixAlpha
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by SixAlpha »

dm200 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:29 pm
miamivice wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:27 pm
SixAlpha wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:24 pm I also keep collision on my older cars. I’ve had 3 not-at fault accidents in the past 5 years. Two of them, the other driver did not have insurance. My insurance paid and said they would refund the deductible if they could successfully sue them other driver for the damages.

Worth it for me for the peace of mind.
These claims were not paid your collision insurance, but rather your uninsured driver's insurance.
Collision insurance covers repairs to your vehicle when you are at fault. Not at fault accidents are covered either by the other driver's insurance or by your uninsured drivers insurance.
Not necessarily (may depend on state).
In my case, I live in a zip code where uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage is not offered by many insurance companies. When I questioned my insurance company on this, they told me many companies have stopped offering it in areas that have a higher-than-normal percentage of uninsured drivers.
chw
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by chw »

I’d keep the collision, and raise the deductible to $1,000(which I do for all cars). Just had a total loss on a 15 year old Camry. Insurance paid out average retail price plus sales tax, which netted $3,600 after the deductible. Cost of collision coverage was only $70 year.
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dm200
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by dm200 »

I have not used it yet - but we have the American Express feature that provides insurance (one fee per rental, not per day) now that we have dropped collision coverage on both our cars.
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dm200
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by dm200 »

chw wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:13 am I’d keep the collision, and raise the deductible to $1,000(which I do for all cars). Just had a total loss on a 15 year old Camry. Insurance paid out average retail price plus sales tax, which netted $3,600 after the deductible. Cost of collision coverage was only $70 year.
$3,600 net is good for such an older Camry.

I would, though, believe your "cost" is or will be more - when you take into account a possible premium increase.

That $70 per year seems low - so you are fortunate to have such a low premium.
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by looking »

miamivice wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:52 am Most financial-type people suggest this as far as insurance: Can you afford the cost of replacing the vehicle, or can you afford to go without the vehicle, in the event you are at fault for totaling?

If the answer is yes, you are likely to be ahead by self-insuring, because insurance is a for-profit industry that pays less out in claims than they collect every year.
collistion coverage automatically inclue cocmprehensive
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dm200
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by dm200 »

looking wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:11 am
miamivice wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:52 am Most financial-type people suggest this as far as insurance: Can you afford the cost of replacing the vehicle, or can you afford to go without the vehicle, in the event you are at fault for totaling?

If the answer is yes, you are likely to be ahead by self-insuring, because insurance is a for-profit industry that pays less out in claims than they collect every year.
collistion coverage automatically inclue cocmprehensive
Maybe in some states, but definitely not true for my State farm auto insurance. They are two different coverages.
chw
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by chw »

dm200 wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:04 am
chw wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:13 am I’d keep the collision, and raise the deductible to $1,000(which I do for all cars). Just had a total loss on a 15 year old Camry. Insurance paid out average retail price plus sales tax, which netted $3,600 after the deductible. Cost of collision coverage was only $70 year.
$3,600 net is good for such an older Camry.

I would, though, believe your "cost" is or will be more - when you take into account a possible premium increase.

That $70 per year seems low - so you are fortunate to have such a low premium.
This was our first claim in many years, and have a very good rating with the insurance company. Generally, the higher deductible for collision tends to be priced well with many insurance carriers.

Camry values for older models still sell for over $4,000 for 15 year old models which was why kept the collision on it for the premium charged. The insurance won’t be rated, as the loss was from a deer strike, and not conidered to be at fault.
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by Dottie57 »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:52 am Admiral:

My dad's #1 rule was never to pay for insurance for something you can afford to pay for yourself. If you are accident prone, you might beat the insurance company -- but it is unlikely.

Dad's rule results in our using high-deductibles and cancelling collision insurance as our automobiles age. The money we saved on premiums has given us a more comfortable retirement.

Best wishes.
Taylor
My dadsaid the same thing. I follow his advice.
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dm200
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by dm200 »

Camry values for older models still sell for over $4,000 for 15 year old models which was why kept the collision on it for the premium charged. The insurance won’t be rated, as the loss was from a deer strike, and not considered to be at fault.
The deer strike was collision - not comprehensive? Did it matter is you hit the deer or if the deer hit you? I think, for example, if a tree falls on you - that is comprehensive but if you hit the tree it is collision :confused . Many decades ago, I had lower deductible on comprehensive than collision. My parked car fell into a hole when a water main broke in the street in front of my house. The insurance company first said ot was collision - I hit the hole. No, I said, the car fell into the hole. After escalating the claim - State farm finally agreed that it was comprehensive - the car fell into the hole. :twisted:

Yes! As my wife and I are now in semi-retirement (no long commute) and long distance family trips are much less frequent - we have transitioned to two older Camrys. The one I drive now is a 1998 Camry that I bought from longtime friends (the original owners) in late 1995 for $3,000. It only have 71,000 miles - and now only has about 88,000 miles. We bought a 2002 Camry (my wife mainly drives - and it also is our 'trip' car) in late 1997 for $4,000 - with only about 88,000 miles. I think it was the 2nd owner (possibly 3rd). I found the car advertised on Craigslist. These older Camrys tend to last a long time.
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by ncbill »

dm200 wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:02 am
Camry values for older models still sell for over $4,000 for 15 year old models which was why kept the collision on it for the premium charged. The insurance won’t be rated, as the loss was from a deer strike, and not considered to be at fault.
The deer strike was collision - not comprehensive? Did it matter is you hit the deer or if the deer hit you? I think, for example, if a tree falls on you - that is comprehensive but if you hit the tree it is collision :confused . Many decades ago, I had lower deductible on comprehensive than collision. My parked car fell into a hole when a water main broke in the street in front of my house. The insurance company first said ot was collision - I hit the hole. No, I said, the car fell into the hole. After escalating the claim - State farm finally agreed that it was comprehensive - the car fell into the hole. :twisted:

Yes! As my wife and I are now in semi-retirement (no long commute) and long distance family trips are much less frequent - we have transitioned to two older Camrys. The one I drive now is a 1998 Camry that I bought from longtime friends (the original owners) in late 1995 for $3,000. It only have 71,000 miles - and now only has about 88,000 miles. We bought a 2002 Camry (my wife mainly drives - and it also is our 'trip' car) in late 1997 for $4,000 - with only about 88,000 miles. I think it was the 2nd owner (possibly 3rd). I found the car advertised on Craigslist. These older Camrys tend to last a long time.
Any animal attacks would be a comprehensive claim here...I keep comprehensive even on vehicles where I've dropped collision because with a $100 deductible comprehensive costs only ~$60/year for each of my older vehicles.

Just filed for a deer suicide...$3,000 worth of damage.
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by IMO »

OnTrack wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:22 am
ralph124cf wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:18 pm
OnTrack wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:58 pm A few people have mentioned that one reason to keep the collision insurance is so that car rental insurance can be declined. While I compleatly agree with this reasoning, there are a couple of caveats. First, in the case that a rental car is totaled, the car rental company will probably require that the cost of a new replacement car be paid, not the depreciated cost that the driver's insurance company is likely to pay, so the renter would have to pay the difference. Second, the car rental company is likely to require that until the car is repaired or replaced that the renter pay for each day that they don't have the car available to rent.

I fully agree that the car rental company will try this.

If you have collision insurance, plus the credit card insurance, then you have two companies that will fight the car rental company on this for you.

Ralph
I don't see how the insurance company would fight the car rental company? I think the insurance company would simply fulfill its contractual obligation to pay the depreciated value. It would have no obligation to contest the rental company's bill for the additional amount to buy a new car or to pay for lost rental fees due to the car not being available to rent. Furthermore, these costs are in the fine print of the contract that you sign when you rent a car, so it is difficult to contest.
Not a lawyer, but I don't see how legally one is entitled to a brand new car to replace a used car with significant depreciation. I can't imagine any judge would agree that in order to be "made whole" one would have to ignore depreciation. Why don't individuals fight for the same thing when there personal car gets totaled by someone else?

Does it actually say you are required to replace the car (if totaled) with a brand new vehicle in the fine print of rental contracts?

Lost rental fees, I could see that being a possible issue.

Would be nice to hear from anyone who's actually totaled a rental car somewhat recently to see what actually happened.
OnTrack
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by OnTrack »

IMO wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:43 am
OnTrack wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:22 am
ralph124cf wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:18 pm
OnTrack wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:58 pm A few people have mentioned that one reason to keep the collision insurance is so that car rental insurance can be declined. While I compleatly agree with this reasoning, there are a couple of caveats. First, in the case that a rental car is totaled, the car rental company will probably require that the cost of a new replacement car be paid, not the depreciated cost that the driver's insurance company is likely to pay, so the renter would have to pay the difference. Second, the car rental company is likely to require that until the car is repaired or replaced that the renter pay for each day that they don't have the car available to rent.

I fully agree that the car rental company will try this.

If you have collision insurance, plus the credit card insurance, then you have two companies that will fight the car rental company on this for you.

Ralph
I don't see how the insurance company would fight the car rental company? I think the insurance company would simply fulfill its contractual obligation to pay the depreciated value. It would have no obligation to contest the rental company's bill for the additional amount to buy a new car or to pay for lost rental fees due to the car not being available to rent. Furthermore, these costs are in the fine print of the contract that you sign when you rent a car, so it is difficult to contest.
Not a lawyer, but I don't see how legally one is entitled to a brand new car to replace a used car with significant depreciation. I can't imagine any judge would agree that in order to be "made whole" one would have to ignore depreciation. Why don't individuals fight for the same thing when there personal car gets totaled by someone else?

Does it actually say you are required to replace the car (if totaled) with a brand new vehicle in the fine print of rental contracts?

Lost rental fees, I could see that being a possible issue.

Would be nice to hear from anyone who's actually totaled a rental car somewhat recently to see what actually happened.
I based my comment that the car rental company would charge the cost of a new replacement car if the rental care is totaled based on what I was told by someone who crashed a rental car a few years ago. However, I am now doubtful if this is correct (or maybe the policies have changed?). Per https://www.avis.com/en/legal-documents/rental-terms paragraph 13: "If the car is damaged, you will pay our estimated repair cost, or if, in our sole discretion, we determine to sell the car in its damaged condition, you will pay the difference between the car’s retail fair market value before it was damaged and the sale proceeds, except in Canada or as otherwise required by law."

It goes on to say: "As part of our loss, you’ll also pay for loss of use of the car, without regard to our fleet utilization, plus an administrative fee, plus towing and storage charges, if any (“Incidental Loss”). If your responsibility is covered by any insurance, credit card benefit, travel insurance or such other insurance or benefits, you authorize us to contact the benefit provider directly on your behalf and you assign all of your benefits directly to us to recover all consequential and incidental damages, including but not limited to the repairs of the car plus diminished value or the fair market retail value of the car (less salvage value plus costs incurred in the salvage-sale), and all Incidental Loss and administrative fees."
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dm200
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Re: Cancel collision coverage on older car?

Post by dm200 »

However, there is an argument for having comprehensive but not collision. If you file a collision claim, your insurance rate may go up, so the benefit could be $1000 less than the damage after the deductible. (This may not apply to a hit and run; check your policy terms.) If you file a comprehensive claim, your insurance is less likely to go up.
Yes - I now agree.

I used to put both collision and comprehensive in the same category of when to drop - but I now believe there may be valid arguments for keeping comprehensive longer.
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