HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

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michaeljc70
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by michaeljc70 »

Can someone that lives near the pool place a camera in a window directed at the pool to try and determine the offenders? You can buy these cameras for like $50 that record and upload to the cloud for later viewing.

There are motion sensors that make sounds - I know they have one of dogs barking.

I would think that whatever you do, it would be temporary as it is probably one group doing it and once they are caught....
surfstar
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by surfstar »

Ah, I remember the game of trying to crawl from the hot tub to the pool without setting off the motion detection lights, back in high school - good times :sharebeer
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buccimane
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by buccimane »

hand wrote:Sharks with laser beams attached to their heads.
I'm dying :D .. I'd also like to know what this "vandalism" consists of.
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JonnyDVM
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by JonnyDVM »

Barbed wire is ugly. A guard dog, while no doubt effective, does not seem very practical. Security cameras and/or private security guard should do it. Part of my neighborhood hired private security when the ATL PD were incapable to responding in a timely fashion to reports of break ins and suspicious people.
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qwertyjazz
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by qwertyjazz »

ruppel93 wrote:
hand wrote:Sharks with laser beams attached to their heads.
I'm dying :D .. I'd also like to know what this "vandalism" consists of.
I wonder why the police do not view this as the emergency it truly is. I think those Sharks would get their attention.
Now you just have to deal with PETA
All those pesky laws and people's rights. If people would only just pay attention to property rights..

As I get older, I find doing the right thing is often the cheaper thing. Treat people like people and a lot of problems go away. Make it a challenge and kids can be creative.
mrc
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by mrc »

ddurrett896 wrote:electric fence
That's hilarious. But do install the camera first :mrgreen:
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BolderBoy
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

ruppel93 wrote:
hand wrote:Sharks with laser beams attached to their heads.
I'm dying :D .. I'd also like to know what this "vandalism" consists of.
They toss everything around on the pool deck, into the pool. One year, they snitched all the brass tie downs for putting the cover on for the winter. Other things I can't remember presently.
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southbay
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by southbay »

i'd consider the new outdoor Nest camera coming out. or strap a couple game cameras. either one you could put on a timer to operate during hours the pool is closed.

also, to soak the teenagers, you could set up a few motion activated sprinklers on timers: https://www.amazon.com/Orbit-62100-Enfo ... 009F1R0GC/

the Rab brand motion lights are very good. i'd get a few of them with 100 watt equivelant led bulbs: https://www.amazon.com/RAB-Lighting-STL ... 000W3YI26/
ji.isaacs
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by ji.isaacs »

Hire an off duty police officer a few random nights a week. Catch and arrest.

Any chance the police would pay a visit or call the father?
scottyja
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by scottyja »

I would do this as a teenager - we never vandalized anything and were quiet, as to not get caught, but had a favorite condo complex with a nice hot tub. One night, my friends and I were sitting in the hot tub enjoying ourselves when a spray of ICE COLD water came out of the bushes and down on our heads for a couple of seconds. The assailant never said a word, and we just sat there confused. Then another spray, still no words. We got our things, left and never returned.
123
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by 123 »

How about an endless loop type recording of Guy Lombardo/Lawrence Welk type music playing around the pool (but not loud enough to disturb nearby residents) at night including a VERY LOUD underwater speaker.
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123
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by 123 »

scottyja wrote:I would do this as a teenager - we never vandalized anything and were quiet, as to not get caught, but had a favorite condo complex with a nice hot tub. One night, my friends and I were sitting in the hot tub enjoying ourselves when a spray of ICE COLD water came out of the bushes and down on our heads for a couple of seconds. The assailant never said a word, and we just sat there confused. Then another spray, still no words. We got our things, left and never returned.
This is a great idea. Maybe use lawn sprinklers (hidden in bushes, don't have to be permanent) focused on the pool/spa area and turn them on remotely.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
Flashes1
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by Flashes1 »

We installed a security camera a couple years ago for a lot less than $25k-$50k, and it seems to have done the trick. I'd seek a few more quotes.
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Watty
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by Watty »

BolderBoy wrote: 1) Fencing in place, but not tall enough, clearly. The pool area, while level itself, is located on a hillside. There is a roof which nearly touches the ground outside the enclosure - easy to climb onto the roof to gain access. In some places the fencing is only a couple of feet tall.
I'm surprised that you can even get insurance or pass inspections without a good fence in place. Time for a good fence. It can likely go up the hillside where the roof is so low.
island
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by island »

Watty wrote:
BolderBoy wrote: 1) Fencing in place, but not tall enough, clearly. The pool area, while level itself, is located on a hillside. There is a roof which nearly touches the ground outside the enclosure - easy to climb onto the roof to gain access. In some places the fencing is only a couple of feet tall.
I'm surprised that you can even get insurance or pass inspections without a good fence in place. Time for a good fence. It can likely go up the hillside where the roof is so low.
Agree, starting with this is a no brainer!
spectec
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by spectec »

island wrote:
Watty wrote:
BolderBoy wrote: 1) Fencing in place, but not tall enough, clearly. The pool area, while level itself, is located on a hillside. There is a roof which nearly touches the ground outside the enclosure - easy to climb onto the roof to gain access. In some places the fencing is only a couple of feet tall.
I'm surprised that you can even get insurance or pass inspections without a good fence in place. Time for a good fence. It can likely go up the hillside where the roof is so low.
Agree, starting with this is a no brainer!
What was described is a huge lawsuit just waiting to happen. I agree with Watty - it's surprising the association even has insurance. You might want to re-check your coverages.
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MSchleicher
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by MSchleicher »

island wrote:
Watty wrote:
BolderBoy wrote: 1) Fencing in place, but not tall enough, clearly. The pool area, while level itself, is located on a hillside. There is a roof which nearly touches the ground outside the enclosure - easy to climb onto the roof to gain access. In some places the fencing is only a couple of feet tall.
I'm surprised that you can even get insurance or pass inspections without a good fence in place. Time for a good fence. It can likely go up the hillside where the roof is so low.
Agree, starting with this is a no brainer!
+1

Easy access to the pool makes your community an easy target. By having a higher fence, they won't be able to access the pool. If the roof is required to enter, you may be able to deter entrance by putting something on (snow guards) or around (barbed wire) the rooftop. Kids likely won't risk getting caught if it isn't easy to make a quick exit. These changes, paired with disrupting their behavior (e.g. community watch group), will probably stop them.

Something to ponder...Taking a picture of someone is only helpful if you identify who they are.
Winthorpe
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by Winthorpe »

Norbert Schlenker wrote:Consider auditory deterrents. Opera on a loop, or random high volume high frequency sounds inaudible to adults, e.g. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -this.html.
I really like this idea of the high frequency whistle, as long as it doesn't drive the neighbor kids insane. Opera should keep trespassing adults away as well.
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BolderBoy
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

Some more great suggestions, thanks. We talked about the "attractive nuisance" risks at the Board meeting. Making the fence taller is under consideration. For now, they are going to look at the security guard / off-duty cop solution.

And from a report, apparently all the pools around town are having problems of one sort or another.

Thanks to all!
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Keim
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by Keim »

One blast into the air of a nearby shotgun ought to solve the issue.

Agreeing with other comments about motion sensitive lights. Don't know why those wouldn't work.
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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by Earl Lemongrab »

Keim wrote:One blast into the air of a nearby shotgun ought to solve the issue.
That would definitely be a good way to get the police involved. They wouldn't be looking for the kids illegally swimming though, but the idiot firing a gun inside the city limits.

Earl
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by Keim »

Humor, Earl.
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tinscale
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by tinscale »

Our HOA pool has digital card access and we have "trespassers" during the day - "Hey, I left my pass at home, can you buzz me in?" - "Sure, no problem!" :oops:
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TimeRunner
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by TimeRunner »

8 pm (pool closing time) is a fine time to chlorinate and shock treat the pool. "Dude, my eyes are burning." :wink:
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tomd37
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by tomd37 »

BolderBoy,
I would be interested hearing the results of the security guard consideration. We had young people dealing drugs in our pool parking lot and when we looked into hiring a security guard patrol of the area we found a lot of issues. For example their cost was high, they would only contract for a longer defined period not just a month or two, only do seven days a week as opposed to two or three nights, and a minimum of eight hour shift. Eventually they young people went away after residents calling the police whenever there was anyone on the property after closing hour of 10pm.
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Pete12
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by Pete12 »

Costco has very reasonably priced security camera systems:

http://www.costco.com/surveillance-systems.html
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BolderBoy
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

Keim wrote:One blast into the air of a nearby shotgun ought to solve the issue.

Agreeing with other comments about motion sensitive lights. Don't know why those wouldn't work.
Already have the motion detector lighting all around. The kids don't care.
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BolderBoy
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

tomd37 wrote:BolderBoy,
I would be interested hearing the results of the security guard consideration. We had young people dealing drugs in our pool parking lot and when we looked into hiring a security guard patrol of the area we found a lot of issues. For example their cost was high, they would only contract for a longer defined period not just a month or two, only do seven days a week as opposed to two or three nights, and a minimum of eight hour shift. Eventually they young people went away after residents calling the police whenever there was anyone on the property after closing hour of 10pm.
Our HOA manager also manages 10 other HOAs. She said that calling the cops has only worked (caught someone) one time in the last 10 years since she's been doing this.
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BolderBoy
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

TimeRunner wrote:8 pm (pool closing time) is a fine time to chlorinate and shock treat the pool. "Dude, my eyes are burning." :wink:
Unfortunately, the pool is available from 8-9pm for adult lap swimmers who have a key and signed a waiver (no one else allowed). Lifeguards do the chlorinating and they leave at 8pm, so they do the pool treatments in the morning before the pool opens for the day.
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happyhiker
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by happyhiker »

Our HOA hired uniformed, off duty cops to provide security during the summer only, evening to early morning hours. That was what worked best after many failures and repeated trespassing and vandalism incidents. Our pool was exactly like yours with a too short fence and the roof of the pool house accessible, furthermore it was behind and apart from the homes and on a hillside, so it was difficult for the residents to monitor. After a couple of months of the police presence the kids stopped coming. But it was expensive so we switched to private security, and eventually the problems resumed. FWIW, our HOA board spent probably 75% of our time on the pool issue - it was never ending.
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by spectec »

Top issues HOA boards must deal with (in order of aggravation):
1) Renters not respecting HOA CC&R's
2) Owners who expect the Board to be their unpaid property managers
3) Delinquent HOA dues
4) Pets (unleashed, loud, oversize, exotic, dangerous)
5) Pool & playground trespassers/abusers of privileges
6) Parking (restricted vehicles/on-street parking/common area parking)
7) Homeowner complaints/griping about services (landscaping, garbage collection, etc)
8) Residents who know how you should do your job, but are unwilling to serve
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inbox788
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by inbox788 »

happyhiker wrote:Our HOA hired uniformed, off duty cops to provide security during the summer only, evening to early morning hours. That was what worked best after many failures and repeated trespassing and vandalism incidents. Our pool was exactly like yours with a too short fence and the roof of the pool house accessible, furthermore it was behind and apart from the homes and on a hillside, so it was difficult for the residents to monitor. After a couple of months of the police presence the kids stopped coming. But it was expensive so we switched to private security, and eventually the problems resumed. FWIW, our HOA board spent probably 75% of our time on the pool issue - it was never ending.
It "was"? How was it eventually resolved? If anything were to happen, a board or association may be on the hook. It's awful, but you're describing the definition of "attractive nuisance".
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in_reality
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by in_reality »

Did you notify the police they are being monitored? There should be a system in place where dispatcher asks the police to call in and gets the information that way.
nova1968
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by nova1968 »

I had this problem in my HOA. Even though I live in a gated HOA I had my house broken into by kids hanging by the pool and observed me leaving my home.
Hiring a Guard Service for the HOA might work.
How do they check their APPs if they are swimming in the pool, or maybe they are just hanging out and not going in the water.
sls239
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by sls239 »

Are there any police officers that live in the community?
Katietsu
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by Katietsu »

After reading your description of the fence, I had an immediate thought. My teenage self would have figured that they did really care if I used the pool during after hours or there would be a real fence. I do not think you probably need barb wire or guard dogs. Just an actual 8 foot fence, some lights, a few cheap cameras and a large new sign indicating the installation of these measures to broadcast that you mean to enforce the rules. I would consider the fence to be necessary for liability reasons even if the trespassers were not bothering anyone.
soccerdad12
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by soccerdad12 »

Not sure if this would work or not, but how about getting a simplisafe system installed with motion sensors. Put the motion sensors around the pool area. Only activate after 8PM. Don't pay for monitoring, just buy a couple of the super loud horn alarms. Worth a try....
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BolderBoy
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

soccerdad12 wrote:Not sure if this would work or not, but how about getting a simplisafe system installed with motion sensors. Put the motion sensors around the pool area. Only activate after 8PM. Don't pay for monitoring, just buy a couple of the super loud horn alarms. Worth a try....
Nope, can't do the noise.
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BolderBoy
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

nova1968 wrote:I had this problem in my HOA. Even though I live in a gated HOA I had my house broken into by kids hanging by the pool and observed me leaving my home.
Hiring a Guard Service for the HOA might work.
How do they check their APPs if they are swimming in the pool, or maybe they are just hanging out and not going in the water.
They are in the water. I attempted to photograph them one night.
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BolderBoy
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

sls239 wrote:Are there any police officers that live in the community?
Nope.
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Nowizard
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by Nowizard »

Rotate those in residence for a period of time, put barbed wire on top of the fence or dogs as has been suggested. Check insurance first since there could be liability.

Tim
island
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by island »

If fence is low with easy access in some areas I would think fixing that would be high priority for the HOA for liability reasons alone. No laws in your state dictating fenced all around at certain height and locked?
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by freebeer »

BolderBoy wrote:... I don't have kids and have zero sympathy for how they may think...
Uh... but you WERE a kid once... hopefully you still have some recollection of how you thought (or didn't think...) back then...
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by jayjayc »

Winthorpe wrote:
Norbert Schlenker wrote:Consider auditory deterrents. Opera on a loop, or random high volume high frequency sounds inaudible to adults, e.g. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -this.html.
I really like this idea of the high frequency whistle, as long as it doesn't drive the neighbor kids insane. Opera should keep trespassing adults away as well.
I remember seeing a local news story about a 7-11 that implemented this high frequency noise deterrent. They had kids loitering around their parking lot, so the 7-11 blasted this sound at night to drive the kids away. Most of their customers at night were adults and they never noticed the sound.
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

freebeer wrote:
BolderBoy wrote:... I don't have kids and have zero sympathy for how they may think...
Uh... but you WERE a kid once... hopefully you still have some recollection of how you thought (or didn't think...) back then...
... and I paid for my crimes.
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by BolderBoy »

island wrote:If fence is low with easy access in some areas I would think fixing that would be high priority for the HOA for liability reasons alone. No laws in your state dictating fenced all around at certain height and locked?
My concerns were voiced to one of the HOA attorneys (specialized group) and he didn't seem particularly concerned. We are still going to brood about it. Pool has been in place for 45 years with these trespass problems since the beginning and no incidents, so the urgency isn't there.

The fencing and obstacles are tall enough to prevent little kids from gaining [easy] access. For older children (certainly 13/14 and up), sustaining an attractive nuisance claim gets pretty tough to do.
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by SmileyFace »

BolderBoy wrote:Pool has been in place for 45 years with these trespass problems since the beginning and no incidents, so the urgency isn't there.
To me this is like saying "I don't own Term Life Insurance - I'm 45 years old now and haven't had a problem without it so the urgency isn't there".

I'd pony-up the money to fix the fence.
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by spectec »

I'd likely be selling my condo...
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by qwertyjazz »

DaftInvestor wrote:
BolderBoy wrote:Pool has been in place for 45 years with these trespass problems since the beginning and no incidents, so the urgency isn't there.
To me this is like saying "I don't own Term Life Insurance - I'm 45 years old now and haven't had a problem without it so the urgency isn't there".

I'd pony-up the money to fix the fence.
I doubt that any reader of this has collected on their own life insurance
No one has been hurt at the pool so that means no one could possibly get hurt there
Or insurance only pays when bad things happen so if I do not buy insurance then bad things will not happen
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Re: HOA Swimming Pool Trespassing Issue

Post by mickeyd »

Contact the insurance company that has the liability coverage on the pool. If one of those kids gets injured or killed while in the pool you can be sure that the parents will sue the HOA. Insurance company will have many ideas on how to resolve problem as the have a financial stake in this.

Money talks.
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